#112: Brian Townsend /Retired DEA Agent

1
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,000
Welcome to another episode of
Come Together

2
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,000
One.
We're live with Brian Townsend.

3
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,800
Welcome, Brian.
I'm so happy that you're joining

4
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,360
us today.
Thank you so much man.

5
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:21,680
Yeah.
No, thank you.

6
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,920
I look forward.
To it so federal and state

7
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,240
officer over 30 years of
experience feels like does that

8
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,439
feel like a snap of a finger to
you What does that feel like Oh.

9
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,920
My goodness, right?
I feel like I started yesterday

10
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,720
and you know, where did where
did life go?

11
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:43,360
I've just been been so blessed.
I'm I want to start with, do you

12
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,120
are you once you like see the
the hot dog factory with the

13
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,280
working with the with the with
the feds and the federal

14
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:50,840
government slash state
government?

15
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,920
Are you more inclined to trust
it or less inclined?

16
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,360
Do you think that's but you
could be a good answer however

17
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:00,440
you want.
You know I'm not trying to put

18
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,440
the.
Interesting thing is, is when

19
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,360
you see how the how the sausage
is made you, you, you get a

20
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,240
sense of all the things that
it's not right all the

21
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,080
conspiracy theories, all the,
you know, I mean it's, it's

22
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,760
people, it's not some system,
right?

23
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,040
It's just people who make
hopefully good choices,

24
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,440
sometimes bad choices.
And so, I mean, I, I don't know,

25
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,960
there's a lot of really good
people who are amazing and who

26
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:27,240
have, you know, good hearts and
good intentions.

27
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,680
But sometimes there's not.
So I don't know, I think I'm

28
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,360
more trusting.
And I think that's my, you know,

29
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,520
my, my, who I am, right?
I'm, I'm more of an optimistic,

30
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,720
trusting person.
I want to see the good in people

31
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,960
when I want to see the good in
the world, right?

32
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,520
Right, Right.
Right.

33
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:45,720
Definitely.
I mean, I agree too.

34
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:46,920
I just.
I was just curious, you know,

35
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,920
because I was like, you know,
from someone, you know, someone

36
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,480
standing on the outside and
talking to someone that's on the

37
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,360
inside, you know, I was always
curious.

38
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:54,640
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

39
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,640
You know, it's interesting
because you hear all these

40
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,880
things and see all these things
and then when you when you're in

41
00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,080
the system working, you know,
with the things that you hear

42
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,000
about on the news or, or just,
you know, through friends or

43
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,880
family, you're like, yeah,
that's not really accurate, but

44
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,440
you.
Know like I, I was kind of

45
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,800
hoping to hear that by the way,
because I think that that that

46
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,840
that soothes some of my anxiety.
I've been, I've been actively

47
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,600
working on being a Twitter
addict or an ex addict for a

48
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,680
little while now.
And I, I think it's just way

49
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,600
unhealthy for my health.
And, you know, and I just see so

50
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,560
much speculation that's like
that, like there's no, this is

51
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,360
too fantastical.
You know, I'm like, you know,

52
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,080
but it's just hard to tell
nowadays, you know, what's

53
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,120
reality and what's not, You
know, what people are, you know,

54
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,760
what's a legitimate conspiracy
and what's, you know, kind of

55
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,920
just a little crazy.
But you know, I'm just, I'm, so

56
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,240
I'm, I'm excited to, to get a
little bit of relief.

57
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,760
Honestly, that's kind of what
I'm hoping for.

58
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:58,560
But so you started your career
as a, as a, as a local law

59
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,080
enforcement right state.
I did, I, I, I grew up in, in

60
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,320
Northern Virginia outside of DC
and I left that area to go to

61
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,400
the Midwest to, to Joplin, MO,
of all places, right in the

62
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,120
middle of the country to go to
college.

63
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,360
And I love the area.
And when I was working on my

64
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280
graduate degree, I started my
career in law enforcement as a

65
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,120
police officer in Joplin.
And you know, originally I had

66
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,200
no intention of being a police
officer, nothing against it.

67
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,880
I end up being probably the best
decision I made at that point in

68
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,560
my life and, and I had some
other opportunities, but, but

69
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,480
that one was the most promising
and, and it worked out really

70
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,600
well because ultimately my goal
was the the DEA, the Drug

71
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,000
Enforcement.
Ministry, that was your goal?

72
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,720
Yeah, it was my goal.
I was the entire time, and I

73
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,760
didn't know how I was going to
accomplish it, quite frankly.

74
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,160
Yeah, absolutely my goal.
So being a police officer was a

75
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,320
great experience.
First, we had a great

76
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,800
department, great city, you
know, just the people were

77
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,000
wonderful and very supportive
of, of what we did and, and the

78
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,080
Police Department itself.
So, yeah, it was great.

79
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,880
It was, it was five years, it
was short and it was over in a

80
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,880
snap of a finger, right.
And and how?

81
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,600
Long was training for to become
the home police officer.

82
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,560
So to be a police officer, you
typically have to go through

83
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,240
some type of police Academy.
So at that time we had a

84
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,720
regional police Academy at the
college and that's pretty common

85
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,680
in the state of Missouri.
There's a lot of regional police

86
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,560
academies and they're usually in
criminal justice departments,

87
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,280
you know, colleges and
universities.

88
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,760
And, and I don't remember how
many, how long it was exactly.

89
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,360
I want to say probably 3-4
months.

90
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,360
And I of course had my degree,
but you that wasn't a

91
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,200
requirement.
That was just kind of an added.

92
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,200
It was kind of what?
Was your degree in?

93
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,080
I had an associate degree in law
enforcement.

94
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,760
My bachelor's degree was in
criminal justice administration.

95
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,720
Nice.
My master's degree, and this is

96
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,960
where everyone laughs, is in
human resource development with

97
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,440
an emphasis in training, which
was exactly what I had.

98
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,560
Yeah, which which we'll get to
which you've done right.

99
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,160
Yeah.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.

100
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,280
So you, you, you really you went
each step of the way with.

101
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,160
I I somehow planned it out very
well at a young age and probably

102
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,000
frankly accidentally.
Definitely, definitely.

103
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,680
How'd you, how'd you decide to
get the human resources master's

104
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,400
degree?
What was that?

105
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,080
What was the decision making
costs like there?

106
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,840
Well, you know, I, I wanted to
stay in the area in the, in

107
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,440
Missouri Southern, where I went
to for my undergrad at the time,

108
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,720
didn't have any graduate
degrees.

109
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,160
And I really liked that school a
lot.

110
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,200
But nearby Pitt State,
Pittsburgh State University,

111
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,360
which is in Pittsburgh, Kansas,
you know, maybe 45 minutes away,

112
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,760
they, you know, they offered
graduate programs and, and I

113
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,600
didn't, you know, I didn't want
an MBA and I didn't want

114
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,840
anything.
You know, I just, I looked at

115
00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,520
the human resources.
I had a advisor at Missouri

116
00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,120
Southern that was just a great
guy.

117
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,880
His name was Terry, and he he
recommended it.

118
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,560
I looked at the program and I
thought, wow, there's an

119
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,160
emphasis in training here.
And I've always had this, this,

120
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,480
this interest in teaching.
And I thought, well, this might

121
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,760
be a good fit.
And I didn't realize at the time

122
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,960
that it was a perfect fit
because, you know, like you

123
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,400
said, we'll get into later.
It was something that I would

124
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,120
ultimately, you know, yeah.
Go down that path.

125
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,280
Yeah, Yeah.
Really cool.

126
00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,640
Really cool.
I can I ask you now?

127
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,480
I guess we'll get into a little
later the administrative part of

128
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,880
teaching as opposed to the
classroom part of teaching.

129
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,600
What do you, what do you prefer?
Because I, I'm a teacher myself

130
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,760
and I'm a little afraid.
I love being in the classroom.

131
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,120
I'm a little afraid to get into
the administrative part of it,

132
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,320
you know?
Yeah, I know I prefer hands on.

133
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,640
I've, I prefer to be, you know,
in the classroom and, and, you

134
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,440
know, the interaction even more
so.

135
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,480
Like I know a lot of folks are
doing the remote online teaching

136
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,640
and, and I'm, I'm not, you know,
against it.

137
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,760
I just, I truly prefer being
face to face with people.

138
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,080
I think that's where you really
build, you know, beautiful

139
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,520
connections and relationships.
You know, the administrative

140
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,480
part's important obviously, and
and I have no I'll will to

141
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,640
anyone who who wants to to go
into those to to take that path.

142
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,360
For me, though, I I like just to
be I like to be a worker.

143
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,000
I like to be on the ground.
It's just even, even when I was

144
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,080
at Dai, went into management, I
missed, you know, being a worker

145
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,200
and not that you can't work and
not that you can't make a

146
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,840
difference in management or
administration, but it's a.

147
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,600
Different type of
responsibility, different type

148
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,880
of role.
It is right.

149
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,800
It really is and, and, and, and
it's something, you know, if, if

150
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,920
someone's listening, thinking,
oh, I want to take that next

151
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,000
step, you better think about it
because it's going to, it's

152
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,760
going to be a lot different than
what you're doing now.

153
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,280
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So, so you always wanted to be

154
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,040
DEA.
Was that because you wanted to

155
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,320
fight bad guys, that because you
had family that was in it?

156
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,360
Is that because what was it?
What was the motivation?

157
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,480
Inspiration.
I actually saw what drugs were

158
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,800
doing to people at an early age
and it bothered me.

159
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,520
It really did bother me to the
core where I thought, why are

160
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,320
these people poisoning
themselves?

161
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,960
You know, why are they hurting
themselves, hurting their

162
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,960
families, hurting communities?
And I just made a decision that

163
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,160
this was something that I wanted
to be part of the solution and,

164
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,480
and Drug Enforcement was it.
And I didn't really know what

165
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,760
the DEA was until about high
school, but I and plus law

166
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,800
enforcement face it when you're
young and you're looking at

167
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,600
people driving fast cars and
carrying guns.

168
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,320
I mean, you know, there's a
field of that as well.

169
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,360
But but ultimately, deep down,
it was the fact that you know

170
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,920
what, what can I do to serve my
community and to help people who

171
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,960
are struggling with with
addiction or you?

172
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,720
Know right, right.
So what So what are some so you

173
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,280
went so you went from school,
grad school, police Academy five

174
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,400
years police work and thank you
for your service.

175
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,360
Thank you for all your service.
Is that a typical route for DEA

176
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,080
agent?
What is it?

177
00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,760
What do people that you're with,
how do they, how do they end up

178
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,880
there?
You know, a lot of DEA agents

179
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,920
don't have that type of
background.

180
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,760
You know, at the time when I got
hired in the late 90s, we had a

181
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,040
pretty good mix of prior law
enforcement and prior military.

182
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,280
I mean, that's, that was pretty
consistent.

183
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,120
And I think that still is.
You still have a lot of police

184
00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,400
officers who want to work as
federal investigators and a lot

185
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,960
of military folks as well
interested in this career path.

186
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,760
But I mean, I'm telling you,
we've, we've had, I worked, I've

187
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,440
worked with engineers.
I worked with an engineer used

188
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,280
to work on on fighter, fighter
planes, you know, F fifteens and

189
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,440
things and he.
Just no way.

190
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,200
Yeah, he.
Just had a change of heart.

191
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,040
He wanted to be ADA special
agent.

192
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,800
I've worked with teachers I've
worked with, I've worked with

193
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,440
folks who worked retail their
entire career.

194
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,840
It really it's, it's, it's
really not your background.

195
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,600
It's more about just how that,
how that made your DNA, right?

196
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,480
How that, how that made you who
you are today.

197
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,480
You know, did you, did you show
up to work?

198
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,760
Did you have good relationships?
Did you, do you ever get fired?

199
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,880
You know, I mean, what is your,
what are your Co workers?

200
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,200
What are your bosses think about
you?

201
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,640
You know, it's just what makes
you who you are and how did you

202
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,040
handle yourself in a, in any
type of career situation?

203
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,280
And, and I think that's more
important than than exact than

204
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,520
what you did, because what you
did or what you do now can be

205
00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,880
trained.
It's kind of who you are that

206
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,800
we're we're very interested in.
Wow, and so that goes into the

207
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,400
consideration and goes
consideration when you wait for

208
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,520
the hiring process.
So like, you know, I, I got a

209
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,840
creative writing and literature
degree in college, which is

210
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,040
practically useless, right?
As in, I mean, I, I love it, but

211
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,640
for the purpose of a job, for
the purpose of job hunting, I

212
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,440
got very lucky that my dad is a
small business owner that, you

213
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,920
know, I had a family business
that I could join and I had

214
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,960
something to fall back on and I
still work with him to today.

215
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,360
You know, we, we were very
close, although we have to live

216
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,360
in a different state to get
along, but it's OK.

217
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,640
And you know, but, but we, we
talk on the phone 100 times a

218
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,680
day and we're always, you know,
communicating.

219
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,600
But you know, one of the things
that I noticed, and I actually

220
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,440
had to figure this out when I
was in college, I was going

221
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,640
around trying to find jobs or
internships and I had to, and

222
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,280
everyone would look at my resume
and kind of laugh when they saw

223
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,000
the create, you know, creative
writing, you know, major degree.

224
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,760
And so I got one of the business
books, the business schools

225
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,360
portfolio covers.
So I was, I was walking around

226
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,320
with the Business School
portfolio and they'd look to my

227
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,640
resume and I had a couple, I had
a couple of internships where I

228
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,720
did some business.
Then they look at my degree and

229
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,400
like, wait a minute, you get the
Business School.

230
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,040
I don't know, but you know, I
just, I got this, I got, I got

231
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,040
this.
And you know, I thought it'll

232
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,360
help me get my foot in the door.
But if you're telling me that

233
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,960
the DEA would hire just based on
any background, that's really

234
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:21,840
cool.
That gives people a lot of

235
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,480
opportunity.
Yeah, absolutely.

236
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,280
And I actually like your degree
because to me, you're using your

237
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,080
brain.
Writing is not easy.

238
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,280
And I love that.
If I were in the hiring, if I

239
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,400
were someone who was hiring for
DEA and you were in the hiring

240
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:36,920
process, I would certainly look
at that.

241
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,080
Yeah, because I'm thinking
someone that can critical thing,

242
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,560
someone that can, you know,
bridge decisions, I think

243
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,640
outside the box and, you know,
ultimately put those thoughts in

244
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,040
onto paper and and describe
situations and things like that.

245
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,880
And I think that's important,
especially in law enforcement.

246
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,840
People don't think about how
much writing happens in law

247
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:55,480
enforcement.
I.

248
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,640
Certainly.
And I can tell you early on in

249
00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,760
my career, I was probably a
horrific writer, really.

250
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,200
Thankfully I had AI had a
supervisor who who was an

251
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,360
English major.
There you go, and.

252
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,760
He would basically take the red
pen to my early reports at DEA

253
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,480
and, and you know, and I, I
didn't, wasn't offended by it.

254
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,440
He made me a better writer and
I'm thankful for it.

255
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:16,920
That's awesome.
Yeah.

256
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,440
Yeah.
One of the things I was thinking

257
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,640
about the value of it is I, I
teach English now in a, in a

258
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,160
high school and, you know, and I
struggle a lot with what's, what

259
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,280
am I trying to teach, you know,
especially with ChatGPT and AI

260
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,000
and, you know, and five
paragraph essays are going to be

261
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,080
essentially useless, you know,
in a couple, you know, by the

262
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,480
time these 10th graders are in
College in three years, you

263
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,040
know, And so one of the, one of
my main values is

264
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,080
self-expression.
Learning how to articulate

265
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,320
what's AI is not going to be
able to do that for you.

266
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,440
You can't explain what's in here
and what's in here, you know,

267
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,800
with AI, but you can do it by
practicing, you know,

268
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,400
communication.
And then comprehension is I

269
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:57,920
could give you all the
information that you need, but

270
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,160
if you can't understand it or
apply it in a creative way in

271
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,680
your own life, then what's the
point really?

272
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,800
You know, So I think that it's a
skill set that we all need.

273
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,920
And then you could kind of just
apply it to anywhere, anywhere

274
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,720
that you go, you know, I hope at
least.

275
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,960
I agree.
I, I absolutely agree.

276
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,920
And I hope you can multiple, I
hope folks that are in your

277
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,200
classes multiply your efforts
because that's exactly what

278
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,320
young people need, 100% what
young people need.

279
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,600
Because if not AI is going to
take over the writing, it's

280
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,360
going to take over the, the
critical to think critical

281
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,440
thinking and decision making.
And and that's going to be a

282
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,160
disservice to them and really to
humanity.

283
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,240
Yeah, definitely.
It's actually funny you say that

284
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:38,240
because I, my, my friends sent
me A2 like a 2 1/2 minute voice

285
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,920
note the other day and it was
music and I was listening to it.

286
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,800
I'm like, this is fine.
It's cool.

287
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,160
I like, what is this?
He's like, oh, I'm in the gym.

288
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,840
And I asked AI to write, to come
up with a song with basic

289
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,520
inspirational lyrics and just
upbeat tone.

290
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,280
And I can play it and, you know,
while I'm working out.

291
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,200
And on one hand, I was a little
blown away.

292
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,280
And on the other hand, I was
like, thank God I didn't like

293
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520
this because I was here.
I was because it did feel a

294
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,320
little cold.
It did.

295
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,400
It did feel like it was missing
something, you know?

296
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,120
And today I was at a jog and I
was listening to live

297
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,840
Springsteen, you know,
performance while I'm jogging.

298
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,120
And I'm like, there is nothing
like a live performance where

299
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,840
you like hear like the magic of
the, of the human relationship,

300
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,080
you know, between the musician
and the crowd and musician, his

301
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,480
instruments in his band.
I'm like, you can't.

302
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,800
I don't know how you're going to
be able to.

303
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,400
I mean, maybe they will one day,
but I don't know how it's going

304
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,200
to happen.
There's something too incredible

305
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,520
about consciousness and sharing.
That's, that's just human, you

306
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,880
know?
I absolutely agree That's it's,

307
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,000
it's such an important part of
us growing and learning and, and

308
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,640
and just relationships in
generals.

309
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,920
Yeah.
So what's the difference?

310
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,960
I guess you could tell me based
on your experience, the

311
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,040
difference in people's response
when you're a local law

312
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,200
enforcement as opposed to
federal law enforcement.

313
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,360
What's reputationally or you
know, even for yourself, even

314
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,880
within your, I mean, you left
the the, the police force to

315
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,480
join the feds.
Was that was that considered

316
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,880
like a common thing or an
uncommon thing or what is what

317
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,440
do people respond to that like?
People were very happy for me,

318
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,960
you know, they were very
supportive.

319
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,280
The bad guys don't like the feds
because really it comes down to

320
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,880
punishment, you know, and more
so now because a lot of, you

321
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,920
know, a lot of very progressive
prosecutors kind of moved into

322
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,760
large cities.
And I know there's been pushed

323
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,360
to move them out thankfully, but
they stopped prosecuting crime.

324
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,600
And so when you're, when you
have someone who's, you know,

325
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,320
let's say if someone's been
arrested and they're

326
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,880
cooperating, there's no
consequences for.

327
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,760
So why would they cooperate?
There's you're not looking at

328
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,240
any time at all or, or maybe one
or two days.

329
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,760
So when they're like, well, OK,
that's great.

330
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,240
But we're going to bring the
federal agents in now, because

331
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,960
this is going to be a federal
investigation.

332
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,840
We're going to be working with
the US attorney's office.

333
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,240
The the pucker factor increases
a little bit.

334
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,840
That's good, that's good, that's
good, that's good.

335
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,680
Absolutely.
And I know, and I know state and

336
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,520
local officers who actually use
that to their advantage.

337
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:05,960
You know, when they're
interviewing these folks are

338
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,040
like, hey, that's OK, that's
great.

339
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,760
You don't want to cooperate, but
you know this is going to this

340
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,800
is going to go to the DEA or the
FBI and.

341
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,000
Yeah.
Do people do do, is it like the

342
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,920
shows or movies where people are
territorial about their crime

343
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,720
scenes or their, you know,
whatever they're working on?

344
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,400
You know, I unfortunately, I
have seen that way too much in

345
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,320
my career and I hate that I am,
I am someone who absolutely

346
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,480
believes in deconfliction and
collaborating with other folks.

347
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,440
I don't care who you work for,
what your position is, if the

348
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,880
goal is to put someone in jail
or holds, hold someone

349
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,600
accountable for what they did
and that's the goal.

350
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,200
You know, I, I can remember
investigation we worked years

351
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,320
and years ago and this
department was just absolutely

352
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,040
undermining what we were doing.
And these were absolutely

353
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,720
dangerous people.
I mean, we knew they committed

354
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,680
multiple murders, witness and
intimidation.

355
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,920
So, so law enforcement couldn't
really do anything because the

356
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,359
case would just fall apart, not
because of the law enforcement

357
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,480
because because the witness was
so scared.

358
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,920
And we had a really good
investigation of doing some

359
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,760
Title 3 investigation, which is
wired, which is basically

360
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,200
listening to telephones, right.
And when we had this, this group

361
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,359
dead to rights, but then this
department was person in this

362
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,640
department was actively,
actively undermining our

363
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,920
efforts.
And I remember we sat down with

364
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,160
the I sat down with, with their
command staff and I said, look,

365
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,560
I said, this is ridiculous.
I said, we have a goal here.

366
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,080
We have a, we have some bad
people here.

367
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,600
And it wasn't just one or two
people.

368
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,080
I mean, this was a this was an
organization and this was a

369
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,920
organization worthy of our
attention and worthy of, of

370
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,680
being accountable for the
horrific things they were doing.

371
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,800
And I said, I at the end of this
investigation, if you want to

372
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,720
get in front of the of the
camera and tell everyone that

373
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,320
this is your police department's
case and leave us out, I don't

374
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,120
care.
I really don't care.

375
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,360
You know, ultimately we need to
work together to put these

376
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:02,360
people in jail or give the
prosecutors the best, you know,

377
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,440
evidence in this case we can to
put them in jail.

378
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,680
And that's my motive 100%
period, end of sentence.

379
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,680
That's it.
And and so it it infuriates me

380
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,480
when I see people who hold the
cards too close to the chest and

381
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,480
don't share because it really
does at the end of the day, hurt

382
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,200
our communities when when people
do that.

383
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,240
And and so, yeah, I talked about
that quite a bit when we do law

384
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,920
enforcement specific training,
you know, hey, look, we got to

385
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280
de conflict.
We got, you know, there might be

386
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,640
someone out there who guess what
has a better investigation than

387
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,560
you, you.
Know, you think it's ego, you

388
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,880
think it's wanting or do you
think it's career building?

389
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,480
Like, I mean, I, I feel like it
kind of goes to both, you know,

390
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,160
I mean, or, you know, and like
you said, maybe publicity, you

391
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,960
know, I don't know.
You know, absolutely both I, I,

392
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,880
I have seen, I've seen, I've
seen people who are just mad,

393
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,480
you know, I, I, I don't like
DEA, you know, I don't like DI.

394
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,680
So therefore I'm not going to
share, which is silly, you know,

395
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,880
And then when you dive deep and
down, it's usually someone who

396
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,120
applied and didn't get hired or
something like that.

397
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,880
I think this is ridiculous.
You know, I grow up.

398
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,280
You know what, this is an
important position, what you're

399
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,600
doing.
This isn't, this isn't middle

400
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,320
school.
You know, your, your best friend

401
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,800
asked the girl you like to to go
skate with, right?

402
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,680
I mean, this is silly.
I've seen some ego driven as

403
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,160
well.
I've seen some folks who, you

404
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,360
know, we call it the the blue
rocket flame in their in their

405
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,800
rear end and they're, and
they're trying to get up into

406
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,640
the organization as high and as
fast as they can.

407
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,120
And they'll step on people to do
that.

408
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:27,040
And, and not everyone will,
obviously, but so I've seen a

409
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,360
little bit both and it's, it's
again, it's frustrating.

410
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,040
And I actually had someone tell
me once that it probably hurt me

411
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,520
in my career that I wasn't more
self absorbed and more taking

412
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,640
credit for these things.
And I've never, I've never let

413
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,440
that bother me.
I've never, I've never felt like

414
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,680
I needed to change who I am.
You know, I didn't want to

415
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,320
compromise my morals, my
principles, definitely.

416
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,400
And, and ultimately I've always
felt like if I could support my

417
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,360
like, especially when I was in
management, if I could support

418
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,320
my team and give them the
resources they need to be

419
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,760
successful, then ultimately I'm
going to look successful, right?

420
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,840
And it's not for me.
It's not, you know, it's, it's

421
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,240
for the good of what we're
doing.

422
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,840
I really believe in in mission
and team and and I tried to live

423
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,040
my life that way.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's, I

424
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,560
think it's beautiful.
I think we need people like

425
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,880
that.
You know, I feel, I feel

426
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:20,640
similarly, you know, that, you
know, I, I people tell, you

427
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,600
know, I, I talked to, I talked
to customers.

428
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,360
I sell medical equipment, right?
And I talked to customers and a

429
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,560
lot of times I'll be like,
listen, I'm going to give you

430
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,000
some information or some advice.
I'm going to make less money

431
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,760
from it.
But you know, my goal is like

432
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,000
money is not just the end goal,
like I need to support my

433
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,320
family.
I need to put food on the table,

434
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,040
I need to pay my mortgage.
And you know, obviously, you

435
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,040
know, waves of you know, how
easy or not it is to do.

436
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,040
But at the end of the day, like
I have what I'm trying to

437
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,760
accomplish.
I'm trying to raise a family,

438
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,120
I'm trying to teach, I'm trying
to put some positivity into the

439
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:55,200
world.
And I only and and money is just

440
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,080
a means to an end to accomplish
that.

441
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,360
You know, and you know,
everything else is just a means

442
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,360
to an end, which is like what
you're saying, you know,

443
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,320
ultimately make the world a
better place, get, you know,

444
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,080
more drugs off the street, get
people, hold people accountable

445
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,320
for their behavior.
What kind of drugs were you were

446
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:13,920
you focusing on throughout your
career?

447
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,120
Is it things like marijuana or
is it more like heavy, heavy

448
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:22,720
drugs like fentanyl, coke, you
know, heroin, whatever it was,

449
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,840
are you allowed to talk about?
It was marijuana, cocaine and

450
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,800
methamphetamine.
Those were the big three.

451
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,920
And then ultimately I would
start seeing heroin.

452
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,680
We all started seeing heroin
probably in the 2000 tens.

453
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,440
Then that would turn into
fentanyl.

454
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,360
So at the end of my career, it
was pretty much all fentanyl

455
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,640
with a few cocaine,
methamphetamine, you know,

456
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,120
heroin cases sprinkled in.
But yeah, that that those are

457
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:54,720
the cocaine, methamphetamine,
fentanyl, heroin are the are the

458
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,760
BIG4.
Yeah, and they're, and they're

459
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,120
so it's so dangerous.
I mean, you know, I mean, like I

460
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,400
kind of hear, I know people talk
about coke and coke has kind of

461
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,640
become like culturally, almost
like it's, it's been culturally

462
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,440
acceptable since comedians in
the 60s and 70s and everyone,

463
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,680
all these actors and, and Wall
Street and bankers and it's kind

464
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,480
of glorified and like
everywhere, you know, and it's,

465
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,880
it's terrible.
You know, it scares, it scares

466
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,240
the crap out of me.
Well, it, yeah, it it me as

467
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,320
well, all the drugs scared.
And I'll even tell you why I

468
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,920
don't like marijuana if you want
to know.

469
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,520
But yeah, absolutely.
And fentanyl has been the game

470
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,040
changer.
You know, I, I spent 28 years

471
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,480
active in law enforcement, you
know, badge and gun.

472
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,120
I'm still working with law
enforcement almost, well,

473
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,200
actually every day, not almost
every day in a training

474
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,840
capacity.
So, you know, 30 plus years

475
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720
working with law enforcement and
I've never seen a drug more

476
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,720
impactful.
I've never seen a drug change

477
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,560
the drug landscape like fentanyl
has.

478
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,200
I mean, recreational drug use,
casual drug use, drug

479
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,720
experimentation.
I mean, we now have a drug in

480
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,920
our drug supply that can kill
you the first time you use it.

481
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,040
We've never had that.
You know when you and I were

482
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,440
younger, if someone died of a
first time drug use from meth or

483
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,200
coke, pretty rare.
I'm not saying it doesn't

484
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,080
happen, but pretty rare.
I mean they pretty much had to

485
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,000
been, you know, trying to
consume an entire pound or

486
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,160
something.
But you know, fentanyl, it only

487
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,920
takes only 2 milligrams to kill
you.

488
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,960
You know, only 2 milligrams is a
couple granules of salt or sand.

489
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,040
So you're talking literally just
a speck once it gets into what

490
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,480
you think you're taking, like
let's say even pills, right?

491
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,600
You think you're taking an
Adderall or a perc or an oxy,

492
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,120
you know a couple granules of of
fentanyl and you're dead.

493
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right away.
And it's it's been such, it's

494
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,720
been such an issue.
You know, I mean, I think that.

495
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,560
So I just read a book called
American Cartel about the date

496
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,720
about I'm sure you're familiar
with it, right?

497
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,720
Basically.
I smiled.

498
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:52,600
I haven't.
Read it yet?

499
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,640
But I am I I actually have a
copy of it at home, yeah.

500
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,400
Oh, great.
Yeah, so I have a copy of it

501
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,080
here.
Actually, the book was published

502
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,760
before the case was actually
finished.

503
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,160
I had to Google what happened at
the end, you know, but but

504
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,280
what's what's your take on
understanding on, on this, on

505
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,480
this opioid crisis that's been,
you know, happening to like

506
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,440
sweeping, absolutely sweeping
the country for the last 20

507
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,880
years?
Yeah, and that's, that's one of

508
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,640
the reasons why, you know, I
have a nonprofit organization

509
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,200
that I run called only 2MG and
that's the biggest reason why I

510
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040
started this nonprofit was to
address the opioid crisis,

511
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,200
address the crisis.
And like I said, we now have a

512
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,360
drug in our drug supply that's
changed everything.

513
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,480
I mean, game changer is exactly
how I would describe it.

514
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000
That's why I'll say it again.
That's why after 30 years in law

515
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,880
enforcement, never seen a drug
more impactful.

516
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,400
I mean, it's just had a profound
impact.

517
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,960
It's in everything to give you
some perspective in 2000.

518
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,320
So, so the DEA runs a program
called the National Forensic

519
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:59,240
Laboratory Information System,
NFLIS, dash drug, and we work

520
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,920
with about 9899% of all the labs
out there.

521
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,040
So I don't care if you're a
state police, I don't care if

522
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,040
you're a county, I don't care if
you're a Police Department.

523
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,760
Wherever you are in the United
States, if you send your drugs

524
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,400
into a crime lab, there's a good
chance that's going to go into

525
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,320
this NFLIS drug.
And that's how DEA looks for

526
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,680
drug trends and things like
that.

527
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,400
So let me give you some
perspective of what fentanyl is

528
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,280
done.
In 2014, there were about 5500

529
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,320
instances of fentanyl being
seized by all of law enforcement

530
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,720
in the United States.
Again, federal, state and local

531
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,720
5500, by 2019 there are over
100,000, by 2020 there are over

532
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080
200,000.
These are just seized by law

533
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,960
enforcement.
So from again 2014, 5500 to 2020

534
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,600
/ 200,000, that's a more than
3500% increase in just six or

535
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,320
four years.
Just fentanyl, Yeah.

536
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,480
And if you look at the, So the
number one drug seized in the

537
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:58,880
United States is
methamphetamine.

538
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,160
And that's historically been
been number one for, for a long

539
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,000
time now #2 has been
historically cocaine.

540
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,440
Well, now in a very short amount
of time, fentanyl is now the

541
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,840
second, second most seized drug
in the United States.

542
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,920
And then if you if you break the
states up separately, I think

543
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:22,360
it's 1616 or I think it's 1616
states now the number one drug

544
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,520
seized is now fentanyl, no
longer methamphetamine.

545
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,800
And again go back to 2014 when
there were only fit 5000

546
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,800
exhibits and all of law
enforcement.

547
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,520
That's how quick it took over.
So I mean, it came in our drug

548
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,360
supply through because of the
legal opioids.

549
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:43,720
And, you know, especially in the
mid 1990s, you know, with an

550
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,480
increase in heroin use and then
it, you know, got into our

551
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,800
heroin and then from there got
into our pills and then from

552
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,960
there got into our cocaine and
there got into our

553
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,400
methamphetamine and it's, it's
saturated our drug supply.

554
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,600
So, yeah, so the opioid crisis
is it's it's devastating, it's

555
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,880
impactful when you look at the
number of people dying, you

556
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,840
know, when I was in school, when
I was a police officer in early,

557
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,400
you know, in the in the 90s, we
lost two 3000 people a year.

558
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,960
And I'm not minimizing folks,
but that's a pretty low number

559
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,240
when you in comparison to
today's numbers.

560
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,200
You know, 2024 data is not
complete yet, but 2023 data is

561
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,720
like 107,000 people lost their
lives.

562
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,840
Yeah, I think that when I
started my law enforcement

563
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,600
career, 34000 people, 2 or 3000
people lost their lives to

564
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,000
drugs.
Now we're at 100,000 plus.

565
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,880
And then when you dive deeper
into those numbers, 2 thirds,

566
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,320
75% lost their lives from one
drug.

567
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,400
No way.
And then and those people

568
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
weren't even, I guarantee a
99.9% of those people weren't

569
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,760
even looking for fentanyl.
They were for sure right they.

570
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,120
Were looking for pills, right?
They were looking for coke they

571
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,880
were looking for and it found
its way into the into our drug

572
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,040
supply and it just saturated
everything.

573
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,080
And now you have people that,
who think they're taking a Xanax

574
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,680
bar, you know, they think they
take, they're taking, you know,

575
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,920
an Adderall or an oxy or they
think they're just snorting a

576
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,560
line of coke, you know, on a, on
a Friday night, you know, and,

577
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,920
and boom, they're hit with
fentanyl.

578
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:13,440
And that is driving the numbers
significant increase.

579
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,040
It's heartbreaking.
I had AI have AI have a guy.

580
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,640
I have a friend of mine who I
did an episode with a little

581
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,720
while back and he never, and you
know, he, he, he drank every now

582
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,080
and then smoke cigarettes, you
know, and he's from Savannah,

583
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,600
GA.
So he used to play a lot of golf

584
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,760
and he tore his meniscus and,
and he went to the doctor.

585
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
The doctor said, hey, man, you
know, I can't, I can't do

586
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,640
surgery for a month.
Here's a couple, you know, take,

587
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,280
here's a prescription for some
painkillers.

588
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,720
And he said, come back to me in
a month and we'll, we'll do

589
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:45,920
surgery.
Came back in a month.

590
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,400
He took it every six, you know,
one pill every six hours,

591
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200
whatever the doctor said, came
back after a month, did the

592
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,960
surgery.
The guy had another two weeks of

593
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,000
pills and you know, for, for the
recovery and he started getting

594
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,400
withdrawal symptoms.
He goes back to the doctor so

595
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,320
actually says, oh, you got to go
to rehab, You're a drug addict.

596
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,360
And he's like, I'm a what, I'm
an Orthodox Jew.

597
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,560
I got wife and kids.
I got, you know, I have, I have

598
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,960
a, I have, I have a business.
I have, I have a life.

599
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,040
I have to maintain.
I, I can't just go to rehab.

600
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,160
What are you talking about?
Like I, I have a whole life.

601
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,520
And it took him years to kick
it.

602
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,240
It took him years to kick it.
And actually he said the only

603
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,920
thing that worked, therapy and
and rehab and whatever he said

604
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,720
the only thing that worked was
he went down to Mexico and did

605
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,400
ibogaine one time.
He said since then he's not

606
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,920
taking a Motrin.
He hasn't taken an aspirin, he

607
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,680
does not, he has not touched an
opioid.

608
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,120
He says since the it's been like
I think sick, I think maybe 5 or

609
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,280
6 years and just completely
cleaned, you know?

610
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,160
I'm happy to hear that.
Well, I'm happy to hear the back

611
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,280
end of that story.
Obviously you know that that's,

612
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,800
I've, I've heard these similar
stories all the time and

613
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,840
unfortunately a lot of them turn
for the worse where, you know,

614
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,760
they, they went to the doctor,
we got this prescription and

615
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,600
then and then because of the
substance use disorder, because

616
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,320
of the addiction, they started
using more and more and more, or

617
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,920
they turn to heroin.
Yeah, and as I want to say, so

618
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,000
he saw at a certain point he
said he was like, at one point

619
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,520
he goes, I'm ashamed of it.
He goes and everyone, he goes.

620
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,760
Every addict does this.
He goes.

621
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,320
I was hiding it for my wife and
my family.

622
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,840
And he goes and he goes and he
goes and he goes.

623
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,960
Thank God I didn't get to the
point where I was looking for

624
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,280
street drugs.
So I wasn't looking for any kind

625
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,160
of, you know, pill off the cat,
you know, about, you know,

626
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,960
whatever it is off the street,
you know.

627
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,000
But I mean, who knows what
happened?

628
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Absolutely, it happens a lot.
And now let me let me give you

629
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,880
another story.
Now let's just say that it was

630
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,120
it wasn't because of an injury
and because of a prescription.

631
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,840
Let's just say it was because of
some type of abuse in life, you

632
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,600
know, or sexual or emotional.
Abuse.

633
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,160
And you turn to drugs or alcohol
as a coping mechanism.

634
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,200
You know.
That happens a lot as well.

635
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,840
We know that happens a lot of
people.

636
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,880
You know, there's a tons of
reasons why people use drugs.

637
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:58,080
But so now you're struggling
with not only the drug use, but

638
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,080
you're struggling with something
that you're trying to escape.

639
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,360
So it's a, it's a double whammy,
right?

640
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,640
I mean, real for a lot of
people.

641
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,520
And this is, you know.
You're treating.

642
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,800
You're treating one devil for
another, unfortunately.

643
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,400
Absolutely.
And and until you fix both,

644
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,720
it's, it's a, it's a yeah.
It's a yeah.

645
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,880
And it takes a lot of work.
It takes an enormous amount of

646
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:19,680
work.
It takes a lot of work.

647
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,840
Even if you're healthy, it takes
a lot of, it takes a lot of work

648
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,400
to just be a regular person, you
know?

649
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,000
I mean, life isn't easy, you
know, I wanted to ask.

650
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,600
I was actually, so I was, so I
saw on your on your site that

651
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,600
you were between Little Rock,
Springfield and Corpus Christi,

652
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,400
TX.
And I want to ask about those

653
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,080
places.
But one of the things I wanted

654
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,160
to ask about geographically,
actually what I was curious

655
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,680
about Corpus Christi, I kind of
see being a big just based on

656
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,560
the map it's on.
You know, it's by the wall, it's

657
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,840
by the ocean, it's by the border
of Mexico.

658
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,400
It's probably DEA heaven over
there.

659
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,920
I I imagine.
Yeah, yeah.

660
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,680
Most of our, so most of our work
in Corpus, we had a pretty large

661
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,600
what we call area of
responsibility.

662
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,280
Aori think we had 17 counties.
So we went, we went, I don't

663
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,320
know how well you know Texas,
but we went W almost to San

664
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,680
Antonio, not San Antonio, but
just to the east side of San

665
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,480
Antonio.
And then we went N just South of

666
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,200
Houston in Vic and then we went
S very close to like Brownsville

667
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,760
and McAllen.
So we had a pretty darn.

668
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,320
It's huge.
Yeah, it is.

669
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,280
And there's two highways that go
through South Texas right in

670
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,720
just literally from Mexico right
up it's 77 and 281 and you come

671
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,680
into the country through a legal
port of entries PO ES and then

672
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,920
you have to go through
checkpoints.

673
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,560
And those checkpoints were are
very, very, very busy.

674
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,560
And anytime the Border Patrol
seizes drugs from the

675
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,040
checkpoints, the DEA responds
and we're the investigative body

676
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,120
of those drugs.
So even though.

677
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,600
You're not.
You're not actually confiscating

678
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,560
yourself.
There's Border Patrol and the

679
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Border Patrol calls you once
they found something.

680
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,240
Yeah, so, so, so they stop a
vehicle, let's say it has, I

681
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,560
don't know, 1000 lbs of cocaine
in it.

682
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,840
So they'll, they'll apprehend
the, the, the suspect or

683
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,760
suspects and then the vehicle
and the drugs themselves.

684
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,400
And then we'll respond.
We'll actually take custody of,

685
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,320
of everything the, the suspect,
you know, the, the drugs and

686
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,040
we'll process that and then
we'll work the investigation.

687
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,960
So even though our office was
geographically in Corpus

688
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,000
Christi, most of our time was
spent down it further in South

689
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,520
Texas along the border.
So right in the McAllen area,

690
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,120
most of our investigations led
to the McAllen area or Mexico.

691
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,720
Yeah, yeah, I do a lot of
business actually in McAllen.

692
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,880
A lot of Mexican customers come
to the states to buy ultrasound

693
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,520
equipment.
Yeah, it's very funny.

694
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,640
What do you think?
The first time I ever went down

695
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,640
there, I, I had this, you know,
there's going to be cactuses and

696
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,760
it was going to be some Wild
West town, right?

697
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,920
And I go down there and McAllen
is a large area like.

698
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,080
Like, I actually haven't.
I haven't been there myself.

699
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,080
It's funny, I I haven't been to
McAllen.

700
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,639
I've been to, I've been to San
Antonio, Austin, Houston,

701
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:17,120
Beaumont, I've been to, I've
been to one or two other places,

702
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,360
but I haven't been to McAllen
yet.

703
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,880
I want to go.
Or not.

704
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,760
It's actually, I mean, I prefer
all the other places you told me

705
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,120
that you've been to before.
I go to McAllen.

706
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,480
But McAllen is not some little
tiny, you know, hillbilly town.

707
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,560
I mean, it's pretty built up,
pretty good.

708
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,920
I mean, there's, you're not
going to go without food

709
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,400
shopping, you know, there,
there's everything down there.

710
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,520
It's, it's a nice little area.
And the people are wonderful,

711
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,679
too, you know, and.
And on both sides of the border,

712
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:45,239
for that matter.
Yeah.

713
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,159
But definitely, definitely, I
found that for sure.

714
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,120
But so I understand how Corpus
Christi and the host like South

715
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,400
Texas area is big for DEA
geographically especially,

716
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,160
right.
Like if you're planning to bring

717
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,000
to smuggle drugs or to sell or
to distribute, I'm sure that's

718
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,120
one of the main places to go.
Little Rock and Springfield are

719
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,160
far more inland and have a lot
less, which seem to be a lot

720
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,120
less geographical test.
I feel like no.

721
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,120
No, the highway systems.
My first assignment was Little

722
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,200
Rock, so I spent about 10 years
in Little Rock.

723
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,840
And how'd you like it there?
I actually loved it.

724
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,000
You know The funny thing about
that?

725
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,120
I was in Missouri, in Joplin,
MO, if you look at the maps, not

726
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,320
too far away from Arkansas.
And I'm telling you, I avoided

727
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,520
Arkansas.
Like it's the play.

728
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,240
I just thought, oh, no, they're
a bunch of, you know, rednecks

729
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,520
down there and no way, right.
And when I had an option to go

730
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,080
to Little Rock, I'm like, it's
only four hours away from Joplin

731
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,080
and I had a lot of friends
there.

732
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,280
You know, I'd started building a
pretty big footprint there and,

733
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,840
and I looked into it.
I thought, this looks like A and

734
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,800
no one in my Academy class had
any interest at all going to

735
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,080
Arkansas because it was the same
thing.

736
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,640
It was the stereotypes, you
know.

737
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,280
And let me tell you first of
all, that what a amazing place

738
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,280
that was.
The whole entire state.

739
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,880
I mean, Arkansas is really a
little gem that people, you

740
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,520
know, people laugh at, but but
the quality of life is pretty

741
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,360
darn good.
Little Rock's got some issues

742
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,680
with crime and things like that.
But, you know, I could make that

743
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,680
argument in in a lot of, in a
lot of cities.

744
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,360
But as far as the drug work, as
far as being a DEA special agent

745
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,640
there, our highway system was
very unique.

746
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,280
We had a highway that cut in
through Texarkana, which is on

747
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,360
the bottom left of the state
from Texas.

748
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,000
And, and then we also had, you
know, Hwy. 30 and Hwy. 40.

749
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Yeah.
And, and so we had one that just

750
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,440
kind of cut right across the
state.

751
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,640
And I mean, you can, we could
have cases that tied back to

752
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880
Arizona or California.
We have cases that tied into

753
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,040
into Texas and the cartels
operate in certain areas of

754
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,320
Mexico.
So so it was pretty cool in a

755
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,520
sense that we were working a lot
of different type of

756
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,280
investigations weren't just, you
know, it wasn't just like when

757
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,280
in South Texas where I was in
Corpus and along the border, it

758
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,960
was primarily the Gulf Cartel in
the Los CentOS.

759
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,280
And I'm not complaining.
It was huge eye opening learning

760
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,080
experience for me.
But in Arkansas, because of the,

761
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,240
the, the highway system, the
traffickers that were coming

762
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,840
through, I mean, we were working
investigations that were

763
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,360
completely different from each
other, which.

764
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,800
Was right.
So, so where?

765
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,480
Where are people coming from?
Again, Arizona, New Mexico, you

766
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,720
know, California, Texas.
And these were, they're on their

767
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,720
way to distribute to other
places and you've patched them

768
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,240
in the middle.
Yeah, they're on the way to wow,

769
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,400
you know, Chicago, Detroit, all
these major cities.

770
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,480
So, you know, if sometimes we do
control deliveries on these

771
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,720
seizures, sometimes we would
just have investigations that we

772
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:38,280
would link, you know, from the
source to the destination.

773
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,040
And that would mean we would
travel to, you know, Miami, we

774
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,520
would travel to to New York.
We travel to, you know, Chicago,

775
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,520
these big cities where the drugs
were were going.

776
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,400
So.
And then just locally, I mean,

777
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,320
we had a lot of what we call
local or regional impact

778
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,520
investigations.
So this is when we're just, you

779
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,280
know, buying dope and, you know,
maybe working undercover and,

780
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,800
and quite, I mean, it was it was
great.

781
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,880
It was a great experience.
It was a lot more than I thought

782
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,840
it was going to be.
Would you?

783
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,280
Spend a decade there.
I did.

784
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,400
I spent 10 years there.
I was in, I was not in

785
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,640
management.
So at this point now, I had

786
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,320
about 15 years in law
enforcement total and I decided

787
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,760
to to go into management and
that's when I went to Texas.

788
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,440
I see.
OK, So what?

789
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,240
So you were.
So what was your what's being a

790
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:25,680
special agent like on the ground
while you were there as opposed

791
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,720
to management?
Well, you have a lot of freedom.

792
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,040
You know, first of all, there's
no uniform and you wear jeans to

793
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,840
work.
And, you know, you have a lot of

794
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,200
freedom to, you're working in
teams and you have bosses, but

795
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,960
you really do have a lot of
freedom to to really push your

796
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,360
investigations in the ways that
you want to push them, you know?

797
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,520
Do they do they present the case
to you or do they say, hey, go

798
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,440
find your go get out there and
find what you can find?

799
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,240
Go out there and find them.
And early on I didn't, you know,

800
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:54,480
I was like, how, how the heck am
I going to do that?

801
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,920
Because I didn't have any
relationships.

802
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,080
I wasn't from the state, wasn't
anybody there.

803
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,880
So I got in my car and I drove
to sheriff's offices and I drove

804
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,280
the police departments and I'd
introduce myself to whoever I

805
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,200
could.
It was whether it was the

806
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,440
sheriff, whether it's the chief,
whether it was just the Sergeant

807
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,200
on duty.
I mean, and I shook hands and

808
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,080
gave my business card and, and,
and just tried to build

809
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,760
relationships.
And sometimes people were

810
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,880
skeptical, you know, like who's
this fed coming in our building,

811
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,000
right?
And then sometimes people said,

812
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,680
yeah, that's awesome.
We do have a problem here.

813
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,320
And I'm, you know, it's nice
that you're here.

814
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,840
And, and I end up building some
amazing relationships that way

815
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,800
and, and, and working some
incredible investigations

816
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,960
because of these relationships.
So, and then, but every so often

817
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,680
you might have a supervisor or,
or something happens and, and

818
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,800
that comes, you know, there's a,
there's a file and then someone

819
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,760
supervisor puts it on your desk
and says, Hey, look into this.

820
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,120
You know, that happens as well.
But for the most part, you

821
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,320
really do have a lot of freedom
and.

822
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,320
Do you prefer the direction or
do you prefer the freedom?

823
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,360
I prefer the freedom personally.
I love that.

824
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,160
I I love, I love building those
relationships.

825
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,320
I think that's one of the most
important thing that we can do.

826
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:06,440
And I love collaborating and
working with those agencies and

827
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,520
using all of our resources to,
to, to better the investigation.

828
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,280
So yeah, absolutely prefer that.
Yeah, it's cool.

829
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,480
It's funny because I've found
actually through teaching, it's

830
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,720
really interesting that certain
students of mine, I used to

831
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,080
think that certain students are
better or worse writers.

832
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,320
And some of them are, of course,
but some of them it turns out

833
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,200
function better with like, you
know, I'd be like, here's a

834
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,160
creative prompt.
It's it's raining on a

835
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,480
Wednesday.
Go, you know, and write, write,

836
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,560
write for 10 minutes.
Go do it.

837
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,880
And some students needed the
directions.

838
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,880
No, I just need some more
structure and some more

839
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,080
directions of format.
And some people, students are

840
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,280
like, I can write anything I
want.

841
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,280
I'm like anything you want.
And they just take off with it.

842
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,880
You know, they just and, and the
places they go are incredible

843
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,560
and creative and fun.
And I'm sure that applies to

844
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:52,760
everything.
You know, there's certain people

845
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,760
that are more like, hey, let me
just go see what I can do.

846
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,240
And, you know, give me, give me
a job and I'll figure out my

847
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,960
way, my own way of doing it.
And then there are people that

848
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,800
like, you know, being told, OK,
here's exactly what you're

849
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,880
supposed to do over here and
then follow the step over there.

850
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
So do you do like, did you do
what people do?

851
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,040
Like the shows you go to, bars
you see you, or wherever you

852
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,560
examine.
Like what's happening?

853
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,080
Like what do you do?
Well, your life changes when you

854
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,520
do go.
You're in public, you know,

855
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,200
your, your back's always to the
wall.

856
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,640
You're always looking at, you
know, potential threats, you

857
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,640
know, things like that.
But as far as working or trying

858
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,480
to initiate investigations, I
mean, sometimes really it's just

859
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,480
the relationships, you know, you
know, so and so we'll call from

860
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,840
a Police Department, say, hey,
we just, we just popped a guy

861
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,600
with, you know, a pound of meth
and, you know, we think he might

862
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,160
cooperate.
Would you be interested in this?

863
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,120
And, you know, absolutely.
You know, even if he doesn't

864
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,720
cooperate, let me come in and
take a look.

865
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,160
Let me see if I can, you know,
exploit the telephones and or

866
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,920
communication devices and you
know, and help you out and

867
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,800
figure out, you know, where the
dope's coming from, where it's

868
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,000
going and and if there's any Co
conspirators involved and how we

869
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,840
can put them all in jail.
Awesome, That's so cool.

870
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,760
So it's almost like leads,
almost like sales, you know,

871
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,840
like you got to get leads and
you got to get, you know, you

872
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,840
got to get customers that are
going to call you and say, hey,

873
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,360
I'm interested in this and and
then you got to step up and

874
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,160
close the deal.
All right.

875
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,760
Yeah, right.
I mean, that's, that's, it's

876
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,720
important.
I and I know I'm talking about

877
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:14,040
relationship a lot, but I think
that's critical for sure.

878
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,880
It's critical in any profession
for that matter.

879
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,960
Definitely, you know, and for me
that was really what helped me

880
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,880
was, you know, even though I
like the freedom, it was the

881
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,880
freedom would start because of
because of, you know, that phone

882
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,320
call quite often, not all the
time, but quite often.

883
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,280
Definitely.
So then they then you get called

884
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,560
after 10 years.
Hey, we want you to move to

885
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,440
management.
Or how'd that go?

886
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,600
So in within DEA you have a
yeah, that's your option.

887
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,880
I made a decision to go into
management.

888
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,960
I liked working cases, but I
just, you know, I just made that

889
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,560
decision and, and there's a
process.

890
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,080
You have to take a test, you
have to have some support from

891
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,680
your, you know, your current
management.

892
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,040
And I did that and had the
support and I got selected.

893
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,680
And then you apply for positions
and I applied for a couple

894
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,280
positions and, and I got
selected to, to go to Corpus

895
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,440
Christi.
And, and that was my first

896
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,520
formal.
I mean, I had been in an acting

897
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,200
capacity, you know, like when
your, when your boss is out,

898
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,640
you're the boss, you know?
Yeah.

899
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,720
But now I'm now I'm a supervisor
and now I'm in South Texas.

900
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:20,960
I'm there for almost 7 years and
I have a very high performing,

901
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,840
high function team, great men
and women and was very fortunate

902
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,600
to to.
I thought that none of your

903
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,920
people got hurt in the line of
duty, that no one under your

904
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,120
management got hurt in the line
of duty.

905
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,640
That is incredible.
That's how do you do that.

906
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,240
Yeah, I'm just something I'm
proud of.

907
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,760
I, I, you know I'm in.
It's got to be rare, no?

908
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,920
No, it's not as rare as, as
probably it sounds.

909
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,560
I mean, it happens, you know,
we, we, we have a dangerous job

910
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,200
and people do get hurt.
But you know, I, I think

911
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,400
something that we did really
well was, was risk management,

912
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,600
you know, operational planning.
That's something that DEA does

913
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,440
very, very well.
And it's interesting, maybe I'm

914
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,040
going off in a tangent here,
but, but I've had folks that

915
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:20,280
say, I don't know if what I did
at the DEA is, is marketable in

916
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,960
the civilian world.
I'm like, right, first of all,

917
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,640
think about what you did when it
comes to crisis management, you

918
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,120
know, operational planning.
You know, that was a Tuesday

919
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,840
afternoon for us, you know,
Fortune 500 company, if

920
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,880
something happens, that's a big
deal, right?

921
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,240
When something bad happens and
now all all hands on deck are

922
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:42,200
all reacting to it.
And DEA literally that was oh,

923
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:43,960
that's Wednesday.
I wonder what tomorrow's is

924
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,960
going to be.
So you just got used to it,

925
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,320
right And not.
And I know it sounds arrogant.

926
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,880
I'm not trying to to to be cocky
about it.

927
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,000
I'm just, that's just something
we were doing a lot, right.

928
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,960
We had to think about, you know,
not only our, our own safety,

929
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,440
but the public safety, you know,
if we're working with informants

930
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,640
or we're even the bad guys, you
know, we, we can't just, you

931
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,680
know, it's not the Wild West.
We can't just go and shoot them,

932
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,000
right?
I mean, we, we, we want people

933
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,840
to go home and save all of us,
you know, and, and bad guys

934
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,480
included.
And we want them to go to jail,

935
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,960
but we don't want them to.
We don't want them to to get

936
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,160
hurt.
Yeah, and it's better if they

937
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,320
don't start to begin with, you
know?

938
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,360
You know.
So, so yeah, absolutely.

939
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,320
I think that was something that
we did very, very, very well and

940
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,520
I'm proud of that.
And, and, and I think that's

941
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,360
something that that is
marketable and that is

942
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,480
transferable in the civilian or
afterlife, you know, after the

943
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,320
EPA career.
Definitely.

944
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,160
And when it comes to like
institutional drug abuse, right,

945
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,240
Like this book that we were
reading about in terms of sorry,

946
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:46,200
like American cartel and the
opioid crisis and doctors

947
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:51,800
prescribing medications to
people, what can be like, is it

948
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,000
what can be done from the DEA?
Does DEA say like, listen, this

949
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,640
is just within the like the, the
within the law, like they're

950
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,120
allowed to do it and that's what
I can do.

951
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,840
Or are you trying to come up
with plans to kind of prevent

952
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,400
that?
Or were you, you know, is that,

953
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,120
is that a, is that a
conversation even?

954
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,400
It is a conversation and it's
very delicate and political. 1

955
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,480
So here's I'm retired, so I can
pretty much answer.

956
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,000
And yeah, if you look at the
current opioid crisis, it really

957
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,720
started because of the
Pharmaceutical industry period.

958
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Literally, if you go back and I
when I train, I talk about this,

959
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,000
I spend the first part of my
presentation talking about the

960
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,720
historical context of what
happened.

961
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,120
You look at the 1990s with
Purdue primarily and Oxycontin,

962
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,080
what it did, you know, we
changed to pain management in

963
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,280
this country.
So back to your original

964
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,920
question, we, we DEA and the
federal government is involved

965
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,120
in, you know, regulations,
prescription, we, we have what

966
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,680
we call quotas.
So pharmaceutical manufacturers,

967
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,680
you know, they can't just say I
have a pill here and I'm going

968
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,320
to make a trillion of them
tomorrow.

969
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,320
I mean, you know, there's so
many they can do and release

970
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,720
things like that.
The problem is, is they

971
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:05,000
constantly put pressure on, you
know, their, their congressmen

972
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,960
and their senators because they,
they can financially do that,

973
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,080
right?
I was going to ask about their

974
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,680
revolving door.
Yeah.

975
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,760
Oh, my goodness.
And then So what do they do when

976
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,720
they come to, even though we're
part of the executive branch,

977
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,040
they come to us and say, hey,
you need to raise your quotas.

978
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:22,000
And unfortunately, I've seen DEA
just do it.

979
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,240
And it's, it's disheartening,
you know, and and you know, and

980
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,200
then, then at the end of the
day, who gets blamed?

981
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,280
All DEA just let it happen,
Right.

982
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,360
Yeah.
Yeah, well, when the when the

983
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,520
senator who controls your purse
strings, controls your budget,

984
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:41,040
is telling you to increase the
the and soften the regulations

985
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,280
and allow the these companies to
do more, which they shouldn't.

986
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,840
And if you do, because you
pretty much have to, I mean, I'm

987
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,360
just, that's just the reality of
it.

988
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,680
And no one at DEA Active will
tell you that.

989
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,440
But I'm telling you I'm now I'm.
Retired.

990
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,280
It's funny that's.
That's the reality of it.

991
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,560
Well, first of all, I don't, I
mean I don't, I don't not only

992
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,840
do I not make the association
when I think of the opioid

993
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,600
abuse, you know, and I think of
the opioid crisis, I don't blame

994
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,640
DEA and I don't know many
people, you know, I haven't seen

995
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,080
that really that sentiment
manifest in my world.

996
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,280
Yeah, you know, there are people
that I didn't mean to cut you

997
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:18,600
off.
Good.

998
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,160
Please, please, by all means,
yeah, the people that.

999
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,840
No, I, I, I, there are people
that do so, so let me back you

1000
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,040
up.
But I kind of hinted at it a

1001
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,880
little bit.
So in the, in the mid 1990s, we

1002
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,600
added a fifth vital sign in the
medical community pain, right?

1003
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,320
And that had a profound impact,
you know, because we were

1004
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,720
convinced, convinced that
opioids were not non addictive.

1005
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,040
And they would say things like
less than 1% of people become.

1006
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:48,840
Addicted.
I remember that.

1007
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,440
Yeah, sure, that was all.
Completely garbage it was based

1008
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,320
on.
Like cigarettes aren't

1009
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,360
addicting, right?
Or they have, or they haven't

1010
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,080
found that cigarettes 'cause
that that cause lung damage or

1011
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,120
whatever it was.
Yeah, exactly.

1012
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,200
So so so they they were led to
believe that this stuff was non

1013
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,480
addictive.
So what do we do?

1014
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,840
We literally went from prior to
1996.

1015
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,400
Let me put this in perspective.
If you went to, if I'm a doctor

1016
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,800
and you came to me and you said,
Hey, I'm in pain, I need some

1017
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,400
opioids, I'm going to look at
you and I'm going to say, OK,

1018
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,080
where's the bone sticking out?
Like, prove to me you're in

1019
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,840
pain.
Like, and I'm not saying that

1020
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,400
you couldn't game the system or
trick me because obviously that

1021
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,240
happens as well.
But for the most part,

1022
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:26,360
statistically speaking, at
least, I'm going to, I'm going

1023
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,800
to look for some objective way
to, to, to measure it, agree and

1024
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,920
measure that you're actually
actually in pain.

1025
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,840
You need an opioid.
After 1996 that went out the

1026
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,280
door.
It went out the window.

1027
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,040
I mean, it literally just was
thrown out the window and it was

1028
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,560
like, oh, you're in pain.
Oh, here's 30 pills, here's 60

1029
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,640
pills.
So, you know, you had your

1030
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,720
wisdom teeth taken out.
You probably went home with 60

1031
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,160
hydrocodone pills, no questions
asked.

1032
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,920
You know, your, your son or
daughter had a Little League

1033
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,640
baseball injury.
You know, maybe they hurt their

1034
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,000
elbow pitching or something like
that.

1035
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,600
One home with 306090 pills, no
questions asked.

1036
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,400
So the pendulum shifted from
from very objective ways to

1037
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,720
measure pain to just give it to
everyone.

1038
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,960
So what happened?
We saw this widespread abuse and

1039
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,520
people started dying from legal
opioids dying and, and, and then

1040
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,480
the number of opioids just rose,
rose, rose, rose.

1041
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,600
And the height was in 2012.
And I think I'm right on the

1042
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,240
statistic.
It was 81.3 prescriptions per

1043
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,760
100 people in the United States,
not 100,000, not 100 million,

1044
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,720
but 100 people.
So there were 81 opioid

1045
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:34,840
prescriptions per 100 people in
the United States by two. 1000

1046
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,920
It's one of the scariest sets
I've heard in a long time.

1047
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,560
Yeah, and it's insanity.
It's insanity.

1048
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,240
It really is.
And and, and and drugs like

1049
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:45,720
Oxycontin.
By 2004, it was the most abused

1050
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:47,600
farm school on the street, You
know, in a law enforcement

1051
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,040
community.
We used to call it heroin in a

1052
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,880
pill.
But it is, though, chemically

1053
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:52,200
right.
Yeah.

1054
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,360
And then the pro bills, all the
the pain management clinics that

1055
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,280
are still that are still popped
up everywhere.

1056
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:58,800
All over Florida, actually.
Started.

1057
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,880
We have a program now it's
prescription drug monitoring

1058
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,280
program.
If you, you and I go to the

1059
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,120
doctor right now and say we're
in pain, they're going to run

1060
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,320
our names in the system, make
sure we're not doctor shopping.

1061
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,000
That exists because of what was
happening.

1062
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,080
To correct.
Yes, I read that that that was

1063
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,360
the book too.
Yeah, absolutely.

1064
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,640
Yeah, the book, yeah, I can't
wait to read it.

1065
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,960
But that's it's, I'm familiar
with a lot of it.

1066
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,280
But so now, like I said, 2012
was the height.

1067
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,080
So now people are like, look, we
and then people started turning

1068
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,200
to heroin because heroin is also
an opioid.

1069
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,880
And if they couldn't get enough
from their doctor, if they

1070
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,640
didn't feel like they're getting
enough from their doctor, they

1071
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,480
want to hear it heroin.
And we now know through a lot of

1072
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,480
research that about 80% of all
heroin users started with legal

1073
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,240
opioid prescriptions.
Let me repeat that again.

1074
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,080
Make sure that's clear.
Anyone who to anyone who thinks

1075
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,240
I'm might may have said that
incorrectly.

1076
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:54,680
Up to 80% of heroin users
started with legal opioid

1077
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,440
prescriptions.
That's an incredible thought or

1078
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,280
statistic.
Well, I mean, I don't know what

1079
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,000
else would get people to take
care of it.

1080
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,320
Like, I don't know, I don't know
what like to welcome to somebody

1081
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:08,760
like, hey man, you want to do
some heroin?

1082
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:09,920
You're like, no, I don't think
so.

1083
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,200
You know, like it's not the same
thing as taking a puff from AJ

1084
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,080
or having a shot, you know, but
like.

1085
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,600
Good point.
And that really started a lot of

1086
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:18,760
them.
And so then a lot of folks were

1087
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,880
looking at law enforcement,
specifically the DEA saying,

1088
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,360
hey, we got to do something.
So that's when we finally

1089
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,720
started to regulate the the
pharmaceuticals.

1090
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:28,920
True, because because even by
2013 our federal government

1091
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,640
says, Hey, we have a problem
with with prescription opioid,

1092
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,400
like it's, it's crazy.
And we actually declared it an

1093
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:36,960
emergency within the federal
government.

1094
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:38,800
A lot of people don't know that
since 2013.

1095
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,240
So we started to regulate it.
So back to your original

1096
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:44,480
question, some people are like,
shame on DEA, shame on the

1097
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,760
federal government for
regulating it because then it

1098
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,560
they a lot of people believe
that that forced people into

1099
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,240
heroin.
What?

1100
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,920
And I would push back on that
and say, actually they were

1101
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,040
already at heroin.
We saw heroin spike.

1102
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,920
We hadn't seen that type of
spike since the Vietnam War.

1103
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,760
So I'm sure there were some
people out there that the

1104
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,680
regulations made, you know,
getting legal opioids more

1105
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,560
difficult.
And they probably did turn the

1106
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,560
heroin, but that process already
started.

1107
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,080
So I'm not trying to protect
the.

1108
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,800
Yeah.
For sure, for sure, for sure,

1109
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,200
for sure, totally.
Especially when you, especially

1110
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,600
with that stat back-to-back you
up with that fact that 80% of

1111
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,280
people weren't interested in
heroin before they started

1112
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:24,680
opioids.
That means that something

1113
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,800
started somewhere, you know.
Yeah, yeah.

1114
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,640
And that's, you know, when you
asked me earlier, what kind of

1115
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,040
drugs did I work?
You know, early on, like I said,

1116
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,720
it was marijuana, cocaine and
methamphetamine.

1117
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:37,160
And then we started working
heroin cases, you know, and we

1118
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,200
were all kind of literally
scratching our heads at the time

1119
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,680
going, you know, and I loved it
because I hadn't worked any

1120
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,800
heroin cases up to then.
And I was like, what the Hell's,

1121
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,600
what the heck's going on, right?
And, and now we know, you know,

1122
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,040
now we know what was going on.
So I'm actually excited to talk

1123
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:56,440
to a former agent about this
because I, I found out, I found

1124
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:02,000
out about a month or two ago
from a good buddy of mine that

1125
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:08,760
apparently just because
something like cannabis is state

1126
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,320
legal does not mean that it's
federally legal.

1127
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,400
And that if there was, if I was
sitting on the street in

1128
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,720
California or Oregon or New York
or Illinois and I was smoking AJ

1129
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,520
and a fed could hypothetically,
and I heard they're not going to

1130
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,440
bother because it's such a pain
in the pain in the butt to deal

1131
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,520
with, but could hypothetically
come over and arrest me for

1132
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,040
that.
Is that the case?

1133
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,360
Yeah, so, so marijuana, a
Schedule 1 drug under the

1134
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:44,640
federal government's statutes.
And yes, so it, yeah, it's, it's

1135
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,480
illegal.
So how can the states make it

1136
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,960
legal?
Well, that's a whole state

1137
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,320
versus federal, state rights
versus federal rights.

1138
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,680
I can tell you why I don't like
marijuana though.

1139
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:57,600
Sure, let's hear it.
I'd love to hear.

1140
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,680
It THC levels, so a lot of folks
marijuana the THC and marijuana

1141
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,280
THC is the psychoactive
substance.

1142
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,560
That's what's like that what
makes you high, That is what

1143
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,760
makes you high.
And the THC levels, I went to

1144
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,680
high school in the 1980's, the
THC level in the 1980s was about

1145
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:22,840
2% on the high end, you know, in
the 1990, yeah, 1990s, two to

1146
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,840
4%.
You know, by the early 2000s,

1147
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,800
four, five, 6%.
And then you see this increase

1148
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,160
to where they are now.
The average THC levels in

1149
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,280
marijuana now about 2530%.
Yeah, yeah.

1150
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,720
So, so when I hear people,
especially parents who will tell

1151
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,600
me all the time it's just weed,
I hear that a lot.

1152
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,760
Just weed, quote UN quote.
You know, I smoked it when I was

1153
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,120
in high school.
What's wrong with my son or

1154
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,520
daughter smoking it and I have
to correct?

1155
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,400
It wasn't getting short term
memory loss, that's why.

1156
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,160
There's a lot of problems
associated with it, but the end

1157
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,000
of the day it's not the same
weed.

1158
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,520
If you could go into a time
machine and grab the marijuana

1159
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,600
from the 70s and 80s and maybe
even the 90s, okay, then it is

1160
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,200
just weed, you know?
But but the, the marijuana that

1161
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,920
especially young people are
smoking now is not even in the

1162
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,640
same ballpark.
I mean, literally, it's not.

1163
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,920
They ought to call it something
else because it's not even, it's

1164
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,560
not the same thing it was 1015
years ago.

1165
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,320
I mean, it's if you smoke one
marijuana cigarette right now,

1166
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:28,320
that's like smoking 1213
marijuana joints 15 years ago.

1167
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,440
It's literally that ratio.
So, So what are we seeing now?

1168
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,920
All the things that was supposed
to, you know, the, the stress

1169
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,160
and anxiety, all, you know, the
sleeping, all that stuff.

1170
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,080
We're actually seeing those
things increase, especially in

1171
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,160
young people, you know, the
trigger for psychosis.

1172
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,400
We know that.
And then I talked to, you know,

1173
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,000
because of my work with only two
MGI, talked to a lot of folks in

1174
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,800
the treatment and recovery
community.

1175
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,800
And, you know, the biggest
client that they work with,

1176
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,840
young people in marijuana, they
call it cannabis, same thing.

1177
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:00,880
Marijuana.
Yeah.

1178
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,120
Cannabis disorder, which is
marijuana addiction.

1179
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,680
Yeah.
You know, do they work with meth

1180
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,360
and coke and other stuff?
Yeah, absolutely.

1181
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:12,480
But marijuana, young people,
number one client, I believe it.

1182
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:13,760
And that's across the United
States.

1183
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,880
I believe that.
I believe that I the reason why

1184
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,200
I believe that it it could
potentially be so dangerous is

1185
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,280
because it's because of the no
big deal attitude about it.

1186
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,240
You know, there are things that
have big deal attitudes about it

1187
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,320
that kind of a ready like, you
know, again, you tell me I'm

1188
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,040
not.
I was never in my life

1189
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,960
interested in like an upper like
opioids or coke or anything like

1190
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,320
that.
Like if you, like you told me

1191
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,280
like I like no man, like I want
to, I want to leave that stuff

1192
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,120
alone, you know, And like, it's
scary.

1193
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,040
It scares the heck out of me,
you know, And even when I was

1194
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,880
younger, when I was in high
school, I remember how it used

1195
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,040
to be deathly, deathly terrified
of, of cannabis because I had

1196
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,040
friends that were in high school
that were cool.

1197
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,440
And they'd, you know, they'd all
all these girls would love them

1198
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,560
and they were good at sports and
then they'd start smoking and

1199
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,360
all, the next thing, you know,
like all they're interested in

1200
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,560
doing, you know, is smoking.
And I was like, no, I can't do

1201
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,720
this.
That scares the heck out of me.

1202
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,680
And then it became a lot more
just like it only became like

1203
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:12,640
drinking, like casual, like as
casual as drinking.

1204
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,320
And you know, probably even, I'm
sure we're, and we're seeing

1205
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,760
with downswing in alcohol
consumption.

1206
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,520
I'm sure that's going to.
I'm sure there's a direct

1207
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,720
correlation between how many
more people are smoking, are

1208
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,120
smoking weed now as opposed to
people that are not drinking.

1209
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:32,120
Yeah, we're actually seeing a
down a downturn in both young

1210
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,840
people really, which is 1.
I don't know if you ever look at

1211
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,400
Yeah, monitoring the future
study is a is a long term

1212
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,600
research that's been going on at
University of Michigan.

1213
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,640
I mean, they probably doing it
for 2530 years.

1214
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,080
And every year they, they really
dive into drugs and alcohol by

1215
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,880
young people and they, and their
highlight is 8th grade, 10th

1216
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,600
grade and, and high school
seniors.

1217
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,800
And we actually are at historic
lows right now.

1218
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,720
Even even when you throw in,
even when you throw in

1219
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,200
marijuana.
So which is good.

1220
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,240
So we actually see, you know,
are seeing a decrease in both

1221
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,200
even smoking, which is wonderful
as well.

1222
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,480
Yeah, we're seeing an increase
in things like vaping and and.

1223
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,640
That stresses me out too, but I
can't can't do much about that,

1224
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,640
unfortunately.
I think.

1225
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,080
I think a lot of this stuff
comes down to education and

1226
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,200
these kind of conversations.
I agree 100%.

1227
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,560
That's one of the reasons why I
do what I do is education.

1228
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,920
And I know it's maybe cliche to
say, but you know, information

1229
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,200
is power and I really believe
that.

1230
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,000
And, and there's also you have
to take that information and

1231
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,920
apply it and apply it in your
life to, to make.

1232
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,400
It that's the hard part.
That's the hard part.

1233
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,920
Exactly.
So those are the tools and the

1234
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,360
things that we need to be
encouraging in young people.

1235
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,400
So they now they have the
information, now how are we

1236
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:47,880
going to make it applicable in
your life?

1237
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,640
How are we going to, how are we
going to execute these?

1238
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,480
Yeah, right.
Yeah.

1239
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:56,640
So, so let's oh, sorry, the last
thing before we get to the last

1240
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,160
thing before we get to
Springfield teaching and all

1241
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,000
that fun stuff, because I'm
excited to talk to you about

1242
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,240
that too.
I mean, China's clearly behind

1243
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,320
defence in all crisis as far as,
as far as we know, right?

1244
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,440
Is this this is, does the
government consider, does DA

1245
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,240
look at this like an act of war?
Is this like, is this soft war?

1246
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,880
Is it because?
Again, like I forgot this.

1247
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,080
I thought the stat was that more
people had died from fentanyl

1248
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,280
overdose than like all 25 years
of the Middle East war.

1249
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,200
You know, like more the more
troops have died in the Middle

1250
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,760
East, you know, for the last 25
years, maybe even since Vietnam.

1251
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,360
I don't remember what the exact
stat was.

1252
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,040
Is that what it was?
Yeah, I know Vietnam is one of

1253
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:41,960
the ones I've seen for sure.
And that's true.

1254
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,680
I mean, like I said, if you look
at the 2023, a hundred and 7543

1255
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:50,000
people died and 75,000 because
of 1 drug fentanyl.

1256
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,080
And then like I said, 2024 data
is not complete yet, but we

1257
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,000
think it's going to be about
8082 thousand.

1258
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,720
And again, if you dive deeper
into those numbers, I guarantee

1259
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:00,440
it's going to be about 75%
because of fentanyl.

1260
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,200
So fentanyl, the, the chemicals
to make fentanyl come from China

1261
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,040
right now there, India, there's
some European countries as well.

1262
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,640
But China by far, number one,
absolutely controls the the

1263
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:14,520
chemical trade.
Yeah.

1264
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,600
And they sell the majority of
that to the cartels, right?

1265
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:20,760
I mean, they'll sell it to
anyone.

1266
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,680
You and I can go online right
now and buy that stuff, but

1267
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,160
their number one customer is the
cartels.

1268
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,760
Within the cartels, it's usually
the Sinaloa Cartel or the CJNG

1269
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,640
cartel, Jalisco New Generation,
and they'll take the chemicals

1270
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:42,520
to put them on the cargo ships.
They get transported to to

1271
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,000
Mexico, right into the ports,
which unfortunately the cartels

1272
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,120
control a lot of corruption.
Sure, you know, just a lot of

1273
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,080
control.
And then from there they'll get

1274
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,360
trucked or, or transported to
various locations throughout

1275
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,800
Mexico.
And this is, by the way, not

1276
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,880
only for fentanyl but for
methamphetamine as well.

1277
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,760
The drugs are mass produced and
then they're smuggled into the

1278
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,440
United States.
So yeah, do I consider this war?

1279
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:07,960
Absolutely.
It Is it.

1280
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:09,200
Feels like it, right?
It has to.

1281
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,720
Be it really does.
And it's interesting if you look

1282
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,400
at Chinese history, China's
history and China's cultural

1283
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,560
drugs.
I actually talked about this

1284
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,560
when I talk about the opioid
crisis and I kind of get people

1285
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,720
the historical context.
You know, back in the 1700s,

1286
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,240
England was the first country
that was really selling like raw

1287
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:34,280
opium to China and traded for
porcelain, silk and tea.

1288
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,600
And it had a profound impact on
China overnight.

1289
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,000
In fact, it's estimated that
over the course of the next 100

1290
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,880
years, one in four males, that's
25% of the male population had

1291
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,160
developed an addiction to opium.
And then what was happening with

1292
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,000
with China as they were growing
because they weren't a

1293
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,800
superpower back then, right?
They were they were they were

1294
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,120
immigrating places like the
United States, you know,

1295
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,800
especially on the on the, you
know, California and the West

1296
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,560
Coast.
And what were they bringing with

1297
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:03,440
them?
They were bringing with their

1298
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,560
opium, you know, so wow to.
Start in the 1700s.

1299
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:09,720
Yeah.
And then, you know, I don't know

1300
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,400
if you knew this, but I actually
went to war twice over opium.

1301
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,640
1839, Yeah, 1839 was it was
called the First Opium War, and

1302
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,000
I'm sure there's another
official name for it as well.

1303
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,480
Sure, it's called the First
Opium War.

1304
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,680
And they, they literally went to
war with England over opium and

1305
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:26,480
they went again.
They weren't.

1306
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,040
Powering and they said you just
can't sell us this anymore.

1307
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,280
That's what they were saying.
Well, they internally within

1308
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,840
those, I think it was Ji the
Jing dynasty said, hey, this is

1309
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,440
bad.
This is this is hurting our

1310
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:38,680
people.
Stop.

1311
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,560
And of course England's like no,
no, no, no, no, no, this is this

1312
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,680
is a big, you know, like in
today's economy, there's

1313
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,200
probably like a billion dollar
business, right?

1314
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,000
Just be like telling Amazon you
can't you can't ship anymore,

1315
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,640
right?
This is this is a huge deal.

1316
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,240
So two nations went to war with
this and England, I'm sorry,

1317
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,160
China lost because they weren't
a superpower.

1318
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,800
So they had to sign these very
unfavorable treaties.

1319
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:05,920
And you know, and then Fast
forward to 18551856 time period,

1320
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,080
they went to war a second time
and this time it was against

1321
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,920
France and England.
They teamed up against China and

1322
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,000
still China wasn't a superpower.
And again, they lost and they

1323
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,400
had signed these unfavorable
treaties.

1324
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,320
So to me, it's interesting that
you have, I mean, you literally

1325
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,200
have, and this didn't stop until
about 1910.

1326
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:28,240
So you have a couple 100 years
of history within China of drugs

1327
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,960
just devastating this country.
And then if you read about

1328
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,240
Chinese culture and and talk to
people, it's fascinating

1329
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,160
because, I mean, now it's it's
send as much as this poison to

1330
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,560
the West as you can to destroy
it.

1331
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,680
Yeah, and I, I absolutely think
it is.

1332
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,560
It's a, it's a form of a
warfare.

1333
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,800
And and I don't, you know, I
don't think the DEA looks at it

1334
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:50,680
like that.
I think that's pretty hard to do

1335
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:52,920
not right.
I don't think so.

1336
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,520
I I.
Mean how can you not those

1337
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,720
numbers?
I mean it if, if, if, if.

1338
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:02,880
I mean you know if.
I mean, I mean, officially you

1339
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,160
and me absolutely, like you
said, the numbers make sense,

1340
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,440
right?
But officially that's, that

1341
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,440
can't be a stance that you know,
that, that our government's

1342
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,040
going to put out there, but they
are working behind the scenes.

1343
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,480
I can, I can assure you that to
to to further regulate this and

1344
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,560
and to stop the flow of these
chemicals.

1345
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,960
I hope I, I, I certainly hope
so.

1346
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,520
I certainly hope so crazy.
And it's, you know, and it's so

1347
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,880
interesting because I, I, I, you
always hear about how big

1348
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:27,760
picture China is.
You always hear about how

1349
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,280
they're always willing to play
the long game.

1350
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,200
And that's really what enormous
amount of their advantages, you

1351
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,800
know, like, you know, there's
one president in that they feel

1352
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,000
like they can't work with.
They'll just wait four years or

1353
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,320
eight years at most, you know.
But, you know, GG Ping is not

1354
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,400
going anywhere for, you know,
for a while and, you know, so,

1355
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,200
you know, so he could afford to
wait it out.

1356
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,680
So I feel like it's so
fascinating to see like this

1357
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,280
country got devastated, kept
that long picture in mind, said,

1358
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,440
hey, we just, you know, this
just happened to us.

1359
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,600
Let's do it.
You know, this, this could be a

1360
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,000
great form of warfare.
Yeah.

1361
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,920
This is that that's, that's
crazy.

1362
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,480
It's really, really interesting.
Great.

1363
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,520
So.
Springfield, MO.

1364
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,880
Springfield, MO where you are
now, right?

1365
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,120
Yeah.
So, well, after I left, so Texas

1366
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,080
was my first supervisor job and
then I went to Quantico,

1367
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,600
Virginia next.
OK, so Quantico, Virginia is

1368
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,400
we're actually housed on the
Marine Corps base and you have

1369
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,440
the FBI Academy at the DEA
Academy.

1370
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,320
So I was there for about four
years and I was in charge of

1371
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:30,880
motions.
What's that?

1372
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,440
Teaching.
Yeah, teaching.

1373
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,240
I was, I was, I was, I was in
management.

1374
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,160
So I ran AI, ran a couple
training units, but I did teach

1375
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,320
as often as I could.
I had the opportunity definitely

1376
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,040
to, to teach more and I took
advantage of it and I loved it,

1377
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,400
absolutely loved it.
I was in charge of most in

1378
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,120
service training.
So once you graduated from our

1379
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:56,360
Academy and you got assigned to,
let's say, South Florida and you

1380
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,160
needed additional training and
whatever, you know, you would

1381
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,800
come back to Quantico for, you
know, whether it was conspiracy

1382
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,520
training, whether it was
leadership training, whether it

1383
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:07,920
was, you know, whatever it is.
And my unit handled 95% of that

1384
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,680
at the Academy.
And then I actually got to start

1385
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,160
the leadership and training
development unit for DEA at our

1386
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:15,200
Academy.
And.

1387
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,360
Cool.
Yeah, we were developing.

1388
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,360
Yeah, which was awesome.
How'd that happen?

1389
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,360
Well, you know, it's funny, I I
get there right?

1390
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,600
And I didn't, I was, I was
replacing someone, I was

1391
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,080
replacing someone that actually
promoted.

1392
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,280
So there was a vacancy.
So I get in the spot.

1393
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,880
I'm like, all right, what's my
job?

1394
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,240
And I look at this list of
classes that we put on and it's

1395
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,320
pretty large list.
And like I said, it's, it's most

1396
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,200
in service training with the
exception of like firearms or,

1397
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,600
you know, medical or tactical.
But if it's, if it has anything

1398
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,880
academic, it's probably going to
be my unit.

1399
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,520
Well, on this list there's a
bunch of leadership stuff.

1400
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,320
So I'm like, Oh my goodness,
this is exactly what I want to

1401
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:51,520
do.
And I'm like, I'm sure glad they

1402
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,760
didn't know that because they
never put the right people in

1403
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:54,360
right job.
They.

1404
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:58,920
Serendipity.
Accident, right?

1405
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,760
It was the position it was open.
So I go Oh my goodness.

1406
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,520
And then I realized that why
are, I mean, we have a, if you,

1407
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,840
if you all the, you know, if you
look at the chemists and the

1408
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,360
analysts and the, you know, the
support staff and you look at

1409
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,600
DEA as a whole, probably, you
know, 8-9 thousand people.

1410
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,359
And our leadership program is
supposed to support all of them.

1411
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:19,680
And I thought, why are we doing
this in conjunction with all

1412
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,720
these other classes, very
important other classes.

1413
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,160
So I made the argument that we
need to remove those and have

1414
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,160
our own leadership and
development training unit.

1415
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:32,160
And thankfully I had the ear of,
of my management and they were

1416
01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:35,600
all wonderful people.
And they made a decision to,

1417
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,200
yes, we could do that.
And then this is the kicker

1418
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,920
though.
I had to run my own old team and

1419
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,279
I had to run the new team.
And then there was another team

1420
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:46,399
in the building that I end up
getting.

1421
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:50,399
So I had three teams that I was
running and they didn't change

1422
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:52,560
that until I left.
When I left, they finally put

1423
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:56,600
supervisors over each team.
So they gave you an enormous

1424
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,399
amount of work.
What's that?

1425
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:00,000
So it's an enormous amount of
work, you're saying?

1426
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:02,800
Yeah, but I loved every bit of
it.

1427
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:08,000
I had amazing, amazing, amazing
people who worked with me, who I

1428
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,920
got to work for, who I got to
serve as their boss.

1429
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:14,680
And I loved it.
I got to teach and train and

1430
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,560
that really, I've always had
that interest.

1431
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,560
But that really just kind of
ignited.

1432
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,800
How much more bureaucrat?
Oh, sorry, please go ahead.

1433
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:25,600
No, no, please no, no.
How much more bureaucratic is

1434
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,640
the management side than the
agent side?

1435
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,319
Like do things move a lot more
slowly when you're in management

1436
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:34,000
because you got to get approvals
and you got to go through all

1437
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:38,359
these channels or?
Yeah, it, it certainly can

1438
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,920
depending on what we're doing.
But you can get things to flow

1439
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,560
pretty good.
So I mean, obviously you're,

1440
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,800
you're handling some of the
scheduling, some of the, you

1441
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:48,920
know, I mean, even some things
like supplies, right?

1442
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,319
You know, let's say your
computer bus, you know, breaks

1443
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:52,279
down.
I need to get you a new

1444
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:54,160
computer, right?
I mean, so you're handling all

1445
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,600
the administrative tasks, but
more importantly, you're, you're

1446
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,520
helping, hopefully you're
mentoring and developing people.

1447
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,360
You know, let's say you're brand
new and you don't, you don't

1448
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,800
have that experience and vision
yet, right?

1449
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,960
And maybe you can utilize some
of mine and I can help you get

1450
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,360
on that path, give you that
directive, you know, to to that

1451
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:15,320
push.
You know, this is what you're

1452
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:16,920
going to write about.
Like you were saying earlier,

1453
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,240
right?
I love that.

1454
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,280
Sometimes depending on the, the,
the direction of the

1455
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,880
investigation, things sometimes
would slow down depending on

1456
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,800
how, you know, depending on what
the what the investigator wanted

1457
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,120
to do.
But for the most part, it wasn't

1458
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:37,280
AI mean the red tapes there, you
know, the bureaucracies there.

1459
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:41,240
But it if, if you let that
bother you, then you're never

1460
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,040
going to be effective.
You just have to work with learn

1461
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:47,480
how to to manage it and deal
with it and and you know, make

1462
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:51,200
it part of your workflow.
Yeah, yeah, when I started, you

1463
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,480
know, when I was doing sales,
my, both myself and my dad are

1464
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:58,000
terrible at the red tape stuff
and bureaucratic stuff.

1465
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,160
Terrible, terrible, terrible at
it, which is why we have a small

1466
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,080
business instead of working for
a corporation or something like

1467
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,120
that, right.
But you know, and, and, and my

1468
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,080
dad and I got an e-mail from, I
forgot where it was either

1469
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,720
Columbia or Harvard or one of
these universities looking for

1470
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:15,280
some medical equipment for the
research.

1471
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,560
And, and they said, OK, but we
need you to onboard.

1472
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,520
And they sent me a pack of like
documents to fill out.

1473
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,960
And my dad and I look at each
other and we're like, we, my dad

1474
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,720
is like, I can't tell you.
I can't tell you how many deals

1475
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:32,600
I've lost because because of how
many times that I've needed to

1476
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,080
do this and I just can't get
myself to do the paperwork.

1477
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,720
Can you try to deal with it?
And oh wow.

1478
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,480
And I looked at it and I'm like,
I don't know.

1479
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,120
And then I'm like, wait a
minute, all this is asking for

1480
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,640
is my e-mail address, my phone
number and my W9.

1481
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,920
You know my W9 like 5 different
times.

1482
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,240
I was like, this is easy, I
could do this.

1483
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,120
And then next thing I know I'm
doing all these forms for all

1484
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,560
these different universities.
I know exactly how to onboard no

1485
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,000
problem.
So I guess like you know what

1486
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,240
you're saying, if you let that
bog you down, it stops you.

1487
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,600
But if you can figure out the
way to navigate it, like like

1488
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,960
that famous incredible scene
with the, with the insurance

1489
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,400
company where the guy goes, he's
there.

1490
01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:08,360
You're teaching them how to
penetrate the bureaucracy.

1491
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,680
You're teaching the people how
to, how to move their way

1492
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:15,520
through it.
So yes, so the teaching the

1493
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,320
curriculum, what's so what's it?
So is it a classroom setting?

1494
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:23,720
Is it, is it field work?
Is it, is it, is it embodied?

1495
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,640
What's it like?
It's, it's great.

1496
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,520
It's, it's, we have several
classrooms at Quantico.

1497
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,080
We have a, you know, we have an
Academy.

1498
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:33,840
We have a.
Kind of test class, homework,

1499
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,960
slides, stuff like that.
Well, for the in service

1500
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:40,720
training, not so much the test.
A lot of, you know, PowerPoints

1501
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,240
handouts, you know, a lot of
facilitated, especially for the

1502
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,680
leadership, a lot of facilitated
discussion, which is what I

1503
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:48,120
prefer.
I like, I love to talk.

1504
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:50,360
I don't want to just, you know,
like when I'm talking about

1505
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:52,320
fentanyl, I have to go up in
front of the class and show a

1506
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,200
lot of slides and kind of just
kind of lead the, you know,

1507
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,680
leave the class, right?
But leadership is to me, if

1508
01:12:57,720 --> 01:12:59,800
we're learning from each other,
the different perspectives in

1509
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,960
the room.
So it's a little of everything.

1510
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,960
If if you're training the new,
new, new cadets, you know, new

1511
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,280
agents, you know, then obviously
you have to test them on that

1512
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,520
knowledge and make sure that
they that they're, you know,

1513
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,000
they're comprehending it and it
can pass and go on to the next

1514
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,000
stage.
But for for my units, you know,

1515
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,480
when we look at in service, you
know, it's more just enhancing

1516
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,960
their learning or to be
introducing new principals, you

1517
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,680
know.
Yeah, but it was a lot of fun.

1518
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,680
I can tell you.
I I loved every second laws at

1519
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:33,240
Quantico.
I really, really did.

1520
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:37,440
It was, it was first of all, I
had some really good bosses.

1521
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,360
I was very thankful.
All my all my bosses were

1522
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:45,120
really, really good guys.
What was it like being back in

1523
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,160
Virginia for the first time in
20 years?

1524
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:53,800
That was actually fun too.
I this traffic sucks, but

1525
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,560
thankfully I lived very close to
Quantico, so my commute was 15

1526
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,920
minutes today.
Every so often I have to go to

1527
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:02,360
Washington, DC for a meeting at
our headquarters there.

1528
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,800
And in, in DC, we're actually on
the Virginia side, right across

1529
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,800
the street from the Pentagon.
There's, if you look at the

1530
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,880
Pentagon City Mall where the
Macy's is, right across the

1531
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:13,320
Macy's, you'll see two large
black buildings that are really,

1532
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,320
really tall.
And that's DEA headquarters.

1533
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,360
And I enjoy going there because
because sometimes I would see

1534
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,960
friends that, you know, that had
worked with over the years and

1535
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,920
they would be stationed there,
but I didn't enjoy driving

1536
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,440
there.
Yes, I believe that.

1537
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:31,160
I believe that the.
Traffic in Northern Virginia is

1538
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,840
horrific.
And, and so I was so excited

1539
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:36,120
originally when I went back and
I was like, I'm going to do this

1540
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:37,840
and I'm going to do this and I'm
going to do this.

1541
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,920
And then before long I'm like,
it's going to take me an hour to

1542
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,960
go 1010 miles.
I have no interest leaving my

1543
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,760
house right now, right?
Definitely.

1544
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,480
Gotcha.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

1545
01:14:49,480 --> 01:14:52,120
found that too, by the way, I
even where I, where I grew up,

1546
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,480
you know, I mean, these places
get so jam packed and you know,

1547
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:57,840
I went back and I'm like, you
used to take me 10 minutes to go

1548
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,600
to the supermarket.
Now it takes me half an hour.

1549
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,920
It's crazy.
But you know, we, I used to do a

1550
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,360
lot of deliveries, especially
when I was single and I, I

1551
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,680
wanted to travel and get to see
more towns and cities.

1552
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,680
So, you know, let's say I'd have
5 customers that bought

1553
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,360
ultrasound machines for me along
the East Coast, right, in the

1554
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:16,920
Carolinas, in Virginia and
Florida, right?

1555
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:21,120
Or, you know, whatever it was.
And I would, so I'd load up a

1556
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,040
company van with a bunch of
machines and, you know, drive

1557
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,560
down and stop in each place,
maybe spend a day in each city.

1558
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,160
And we charge each customer
whatever meant for a freight

1559
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,560
cost.
But we like, you know, but if we

1560
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,360
get enough people, if you get
enough customers, we'll load up

1561
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:35,680
our own van.
I'll deliver it myself.

1562
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:40,600
Door to door service for you.
And, and we always knew you got

1563
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:45,400
to get to DC, you got to, you
got to be, you got to be at DC

1564
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:48,520
at 4:00 in the morning because
otherwise you could spend, you

1565
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,480
could spend 5 hours in traffic
sitting, you know, just just

1566
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:55,280
getting past that stretch, you
know, it was horrendous.

1567
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,080
You know, even when I go, I'll
be there next week, you know,

1568
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,680
you have the HOV or the express
lanes, what they call them now,

1569
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,880
the road, you know the ones in
the middle and they do it based

1570
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:06,760
on.
How many people you have in the

1571
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,600
car, right.
Oh, that was.

1572
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,800
Busy the road is so you're the
price fluctuates.

1573
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,640
So they, they try to guarantee
you the speed limit.

1574
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,560
So in order to guarantee the
speed limit, they have to raise

1575
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,640
the price to get more cars off
the road.

1576
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,000
So there have been times when
I've been on that stretch and

1577
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:29,240
it's, it's cost me $6070 to go.
Yeah, just, but, but, but again,

1578
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:32,480
I'm driving the speed limit, you
know, so I'm not sitting in and

1579
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:33,560
you look and I've taken
pictures.

1580
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:35,600
I'm looking at the traffic and
I'm thinking, Oh my goodness,

1581
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,080
these folks are sitting in
traffic for two, 2 1/2, three

1582
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,280
hours to go 20 miles.
It's ridiculous.

1583
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,000
Yeah, you know, it's and people
just won't pay the money.

1584
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,160
And I'm like, I'm going to find
a way to pay the money.

1585
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:51,160
I was, I was almost certain
after COVID that this would not

1586
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,400
be a during COVID, this would
not be a thing anymore.

1587
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:55,600
Because I was like, people, once
people realize that they don't

1588
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:57,920
have to put up with this,
they're not going to anymore,

1589
01:16:58,320 --> 01:16:59,440
you know?
But I'm surprised.

1590
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:01,840
You're right.
No, you're right.

1591
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,560
And and I think I think, well,
COVID for sure slowed it down.

1592
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,600
That was really weird.
If you ever gotten, you know, if

1593
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,640
you live in the DC area or I'm
sure New York or any big area at

1594
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,360
the time, you know, and you're
like, we're all the people.

1595
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,040
Like it was just an eerie
feeling, right?

1596
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,560
And then a lot of people realize
that, hey, they could remote

1597
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:20,960
work.
They could, you know, work from

1598
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:22,800
home.
And then and they could live

1599
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,760
anywhere and they could live
anywhere, meaning you could, you

1600
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,600
could keep your job with Bank of
America and not be in, not be in

1601
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,360
Manhattan every day.
You could be, you could work for

1602
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:35,120
Bank of America and live in, you
know, and live in Monticello, NY

1603
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,600
an hour and a half north and be
like, as have you, you know, and

1604
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,080
live in a farm.
And you could have the best life

1605
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,000
that you know in the in the
world if you wanted.

1606
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,040
Well, within the federal
government, they made a decision

1607
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,840
over the last couple years that.
Remote go back to yeah, what do

1608
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:52,000
you think about that?
I have mixed feelings for the

1609
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,240
most part.
I think it's silly, but I think

1610
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:55,720
there are people that do need to
be in work.

1611
01:17:55,920 --> 01:18:00,400
But ultimately I think for away
from the policy, I actually like

1612
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,480
being in the office because I
like having face to face

1613
01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:05,600
contact.
I like, you know, the

1614
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,360
relationship building and things
like that.

1615
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,360
I think you lose some context
when you're over the, the

1616
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:15,400
computers, but again, I think
it's convenient.

1617
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,680
I think it's nice to be able to,
to live wherever you want to

1618
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,360
live.
And you know, and we have

1619
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:21,480
airports, right?
We can, we can fly if we need to

1620
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,920
be in the same room.
Sure.

1621
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:28,400
I have some mixed feelings.
I, I, if your motivation is what

1622
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:30,040
we have a late lot of lazy
employees.

1623
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,640
If we let them, we let them stay
at home, they're not going to do

1624
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:33,960
anything.
Well, then to me that's a,

1625
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:35,400
that's a problem with
management.

1626
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:37,680
You know, are you not tasking
these people?

1627
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:38,920
Are you not?
Interested.

1628
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,720
Are you not trusting your people
to get the work done?

1629
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,520
And if they are getting the work
done and they are good

1630
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,840
employees, then what's the harm
of them sitting in front of

1631
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,680
their computer wearing pajamas?
Right.

1632
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:52,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

1633
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,040
So I think there's a lack of,
and I've seen this not just in

1634
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,680
the federal government, but in a
lot of industries where I work,

1635
01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:59,040
I do a lot of leadership
training.

1636
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,840
There's just a lack of There is
no leadership, it's just

1637
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:03,920
management.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1638
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:04,960
I've noticed that too.
Actually.

1639
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,680
It's funny that you say that.
You put it like that and it's

1640
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,040
true because I feel like there's
a lot of jobs that, you know, I

1641
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,280
lived in Manhattan for a little
while and everyone there works

1642
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,520
for these companies and like
these jobs are like, so what's

1643
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,160
your job?
And they tried to explain it to

1644
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,080
me.
I'm like, it doesn't sound like

1645
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,280
that needs to be like a full
time position, position that you

1646
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:24,920
need to be, that you need to be
doing all the time.

1647
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:28,800
You know, I'm like, like, well,
I'll be honest, I don't like, I,

1648
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,360
I work, you know, for I, I, I
actually only have like 4 hours

1649
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,280
of work a day.
I have to be logged onto my

1650
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:37,080
computer and be available, but
like, I only have a couple hours

1651
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:42,560
of work a day, you know, And so
I, I, I, I, I hear, I don't, I

1652
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,960
don't know if that's management.
That's the direction of the

1653
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:46,600
world.
Again, with AI and stuff like

1654
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:48,440
that, that's the direction of
the world is heading that a lot

1655
01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:52,520
more we, we, you just kind of
need people more for oversight

1656
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,440
than actual tasks and actual,
you know, kind of work like

1657
01:19:55,440 --> 01:19:58,520
that.
But umm, I think that the, that,

1658
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,200
and, and this also will
certainly have a direct

1659
01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:05,560
correlation to, to drug abuse in
the future.

1660
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:07,720
People when people don't know
what they're going to do with

1661
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,320
themselves.
And, and you know, and you and

1662
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:12,320
let's say you are an adult and
you're, or even a young adult if

1663
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,160
you're 24 years old and you're
out of college and you're

1664
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:17,120
getting paid $150,000 a year and
your job requires you to be

1665
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:20,680
working 3 hours a day.
I mean, who's not going to drink

1666
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,840
a beer in the afternoon and
who's not going to sit and smoke

1667
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,080
a jet in the afternoon unless
you're extremely motivated to

1668
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,720
build something yourself and do
your own thing, you know?

1669
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,840
I mean, the question of what
humans are going to do with

1670
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:34,280
themselves is a legitimate
question.

1671
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:39,280
Well, and then into further than
that now when we don't have the

1672
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,040
human interaction, I mean, we,
we know historically what, what

1673
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,080
that's, I mean, there was a,
gosh, I'm going to talk about a

1674
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:47,280
study.
I don't know all the names, but

1675
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:50,360
back in the early 70s there was
a study, there was a

1676
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:53,840
psychologist and oh gosh, I
forget his name now, but you can

1677
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,120
look this up.
And you ever heard of the Rat

1678
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,040
Rat Park study?
No.

1679
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:04,080
OK, so he puts a bunch of rats
together in this, You know, I

1680
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,160
don't know, thing that he makes
right.

1681
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,880
And it's got the little wheels
the rats can run on and, you

1682
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,880
know, and they can have sex.
They can do whatever they want

1683
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:14,360
to do.
I mean, it's called Rat Park.

1684
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:18,120
It's just in this rat Park, they
have two bottles.

1685
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,400
One has I think it was cocaine
and the other one has water.

1686
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,440
I think I heard of this OK.
Cocaine, you heard of this one?

1687
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:26,240
It's it's interesting.
They would do the cocaine and

1688
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,840
they would drink from it, but
then it was just a little bit

1689
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,440
and but the water, they would
drink all the time, right?

1690
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:36,040
But but they'd have all this fun
interactivity and then they

1691
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:40,760
isolated now that now they had
just one rat, same 2 bottles,

1692
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,120
but no other, no other rats
around, none.

1693
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,880
Literally the opposite.
They would look at the water and

1694
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:49,840
they might drink it and then
they'd immediately go to the

1695
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,840
cocaine and they just every
single time.

1696
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:55,440
And he was talking about the
social isolation.

1697
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:57,960
And to me, I I agree.
You know, what are you gonna do

1698
01:21:57,960 --> 01:21:59,600
with your time?
But then to me, the social

1699
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:01,320
isolation of not being around
people.

1700
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,120
Yeah.
And I know we can get it online.

1701
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:03,880
I get it.
But I.

1702
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,880
It's not the same thing.
It's not the same thing.

1703
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,320
I think study after study
emphasizes that, you know?

1704
01:22:09,480 --> 01:22:11,200
Absolutely.
And we've already seen that with

1705
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,200
social media, right?
And look, look how the people

1706
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:14,520
treat people on social media
now.

1707
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:16,280
I mean, it's, it's so easy to
say, oh, I don't like your

1708
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,440
politics or I don't like your,
your stance on this.

1709
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:21,440
Well, in Europe, you know,
you're an A hole or you're blah,

1710
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:24,280
blah, blah, blah, you know, and
we just weren't so nasty to each

1711
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:25,440
other.
And that's because you would

1712
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:29,760
never say these things face to
face, never but online.

1713
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,720
And then the more that we
encourage that, the more that we

1714
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:37,080
encourage a lack of face to
face, a lack of social and

1715
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:42,000
relationship skills and and, and
communication, the more I think

1716
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,200
we're going to see people turn
to drugs and alcohol.

1717
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,600
Definitely.
Behavior and that scares the,

1718
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:50,680
you know, way out of me,
especially with young people.

1719
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,720
Yeah, it's so the school I teach
at is an Orthodox Jewish school

1720
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,040
in in North and Beach and these
kids.

1721
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:01,240
And one of the things that one
of the aspects of the school is

1722
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:05,040
that the school very, very, very
is very strict about no phones

1723
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:09,040
in school, no smartphones and no
social media at home, even at

1724
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,320
home.
And, and I remember I didn't

1725
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:14,360
want to teach high school
because I thought they were too

1726
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:15,440
immature.
I thought they were.

1727
01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:18,320
I wasn't able to, you know, I
wasn't, I wouldn't be able to,

1728
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:22,440
to explain and have, you know,
creative or deep or

1729
01:23:22,440 --> 01:23:25,120
philosophical conversations.
And these kids just don't get

1730
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,560
it.
And these kids in particular,

1731
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:31,120
you know, there's so much face
to face interaction.

1732
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:34,600
There's so much confidence from,
you know, like when you're with

1733
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:37,680
your friends, you don't sit on
your phone and go on Instagram

1734
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,720
or go on Twitter.
You got to play basketball.

1735
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,360
You got, you got, you got to
find something to do with your

1736
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:42,520
parent.
You got to you got to drive your

1737
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:43,920
parents crazy.
You got to make something in the

1738
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,960
kitchen.
You know, you got, you got to do

1739
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:48,320
something.
Yeah, it's crazy.

1740
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:52,600
And, and, and, and, and, and,
and I walked away after a week

1741
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:54,400
of teaching, you know, of trying
out.

1742
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,560
And I'm like, I love this.
I, I, I, you know, I absolutely

1743
01:23:58,560 --> 01:23:59,800
love it.
And they all have flip phones

1744
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,520
and they, you know, they'll, and
sometimes they'll get, you know,

1745
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,600
these, you know, smartphones,
but with all these blocks on it.

1746
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,320
And, you know, and it's just
absolutely incredible how

1747
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:13,160
sophisticated and creative and
confident, you know, relative

1748
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:16,120
to, you know, my own siblings,
even that, you know, that I have

1749
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,320
a 14 year old brother, you know,
that is, I mean, you know, and

1750
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,800
he and he got, he has a phone
and my mom only gives him a

1751
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:23,600
thing two or three hours of
screen time a day.

1752
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,040
But, you know, that's still a
lot.

1753
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,160
You know, it's still, it's still
makes a difference.

1754
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,240
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really
fascinating.

1755
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:34,760
I hope that this becomes a
trend.

1756
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,800
I, I really think, I hope and I
think that we're going to look

1757
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:42,840
at this like this 2020 years or
15 year gap of social media and

1758
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,200
as like the Guinea pigs of
society and be like, I can't

1759
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:47,840
believe we let our families do
that.

1760
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:49,360
I can't believe we let our kids
do that.

1761
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,560
I.
Hope you're right but and I'll

1762
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,240
throw on the AI that we were
talking about earlier yeah, you

1763
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:57,840
know what what is that doing?
It's it's people aren't

1764
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,880
thinking, they're not, they're
not writing, they're not, you

1765
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:02,640
know, there's the decision
making.

1766
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:04,680
I mean, they're letting, they're
letting the computer do it for

1767
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:06,200
you.
So no, I agree.

1768
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,800
I hope that we do look at this
and say this is silly and, and

1769
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,160
you are seeing like you said, I
mean, here's a great example of,

1770
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:13,000
you know, a school that's
saying, hey, we got to restrict

1771
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:16,600
this, you know, yeah.
For the mental health of our and

1772
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,200
for the development of our
students.

1773
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,480
And I'd love to see more and
more school districts and

1774
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,400
parents in general take.
Yeah, it's becoming a little bit

1775
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:29,120
more of a conversation.
Jonathan Haidt, I don't know if

1776
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,960
you heard heard about him.
He made that those rounds.

1777
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:35,920
Incredible, incredible.
And in his book, The 8th

1778
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:37,800
Generation.
Did you read the book?

1779
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,200
No, it's on my, it's on my
queue.

1780
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,640
I have a million books queue,
but I actually follow him on

1781
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,120
LinkedIn.
I watch some of his videos all

1782
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,000
the time and brilliant.
And what he's saying is makes

1783
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,360
sense and I wish I just wish we
would catch on.

1784
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,760
You know, I, I've, I've heard
parents really push back, you

1785
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:56,960
know, not to him, well, to what
he's basically saying.

1786
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,200
But like when I have these
conversations in my training,

1787
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:03,360
like our kids need phones and
what, you know, what if I need

1788
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,800
to get a hold of them, You know,
what did we do when we were

1789
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:06,840
young, right?
We didn't have the phones.

1790
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:10,640
I mean, it's like they just,
they lose sight of, of, of of

1791
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:15,440
reality and.
That book, that book might be

1792
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:17,840
the most important book I think
I've ever read him, one of the

1793
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:19,400
most important books I've ever
read in my life.

1794
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,920
Just because.
Yeah, it's so because it's

1795
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:26,400
because the implications and
just the way that he lays it out

1796
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:30,600
is so profound and so clear.
And so it's so devastating,

1797
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:32,120
quite frankly.
You know, and like, you're like,

1798
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:34,720
how can you even like you, you
know, the like the stories of

1799
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,360
these 1112 year old girls with
these, you know, with these food

1800
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:41,400
disorders and, you know, and,
and, and, and, and depression

1801
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:43,360
and, and, you know, and
anorexia, God forbid.

1802
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,000
And you're like, what is what is
happening?

1803
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,680
You know, and, and unfortunately
and, you know, fortunately,

1804
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,960
rather you have voices like him
that make the rounds.

1805
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:55,440
And fortunately, it's what's so
cool, I think is like, you know

1806
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:59,280
how the podcast, you know, he
goes on Les Friedman, Joe Rogan

1807
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,680
and and diary of the CEO and he
reaches 100 million people like

1808
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:05,560
that.
And you're like, that's

1809
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:06,960
incredible.
Like that's incredible.

1810
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:09,120
You know, you can't do that on
Fox News anymore.

1811
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,040
You can't do that at MSNBC or
CNN anymore.

1812
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,440
You know, So, you know, I kind
of hope that the conversation

1813
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,720
out there is going to be is
really is, is, is turning, you

1814
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:21,280
know, I really hope so.
What what?

1815
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:26,320
What is some passions of yours
outside of Drug Enforcement of

1816
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:30,680
Drug Enforcement?
I think my biggest one right now

1817
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:33,520
is travelling.
I love love love love to travel.

1818
01:27:34,440 --> 01:27:37,480
6 states here in July coming up.
Where you going?

1819
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,160
I just, I just, I don't know
everything about it.

1820
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,480
I love where am I going?
Well, kind of cheating here

1821
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:45,680
because when I go to DC, that's
really three states, right?

1822
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,960
You get, well, 2 1/2 states or
DC on the state, right, you get

1823
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:53,840
Virginia and Maryland.
So that's kind of a but this

1824
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,880
month I have Nebraska, Maine,
you know, Virginia, Maryland.

1825
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:00,480
Beautiful.
Yeah.

1826
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:05,120
I've not here.
I've done, I've, I moved from

1827
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,040
New York to Seattle and I did
that right.

1828
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:08,760
And I drove it.
I drove there and back.

1829
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:15,280
I, well, you know what, the
first half and the last half

1830
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,480
were both miserable, depending
what you know where you're

1831
01:28:17,480 --> 01:28:20,840
coming from.
So New York to Washington once I

1832
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:24,840
Pat, once I got to Denver.
So the first four, you know, the

1833
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,760
first day from New York to
Chicago was beautiful because

1834
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:30,360
you got, you know, Pennsylvania,
you got the hills, you got, you

1835
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,800
know, you got all the nature.
Then you got the plain lands,

1836
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,400
you got like the flat, you got
the just the flat, Illinois,

1837
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,800
Iowa, whatever.
And even the first part of

1838
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,600
Colorado people don't associate
is all like, you know, the

1839
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,440
eastern part of Colorado is all
fields.

1840
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:46,800
Yeah.
And then you get, and then you

1841
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:48,920
get to the mountains and you get
to like Denver area.

1842
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:53,080
And then West of there is just,
it made me fall in love with the

1843
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,440
country in a way that I've
really never that I've never

1844
01:28:55,440 --> 01:28:59,640
experienced before, you know?
And it was, it was incredible.

1845
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,680
I think the Pacific Northwest is
some of the most beautiful

1846
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:06,480
natural scenery, I think, on the
planet.

1847
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:08,560
Yeah.
Yeah.

1848
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:09,600
Have you been there?
I agree.

1849
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,120
It's yeah, absolutely.
I have.

1850
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:14,520
And and it's a beautiful
country, isn't it?

1851
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,000
It's it's it's.
America is such an amazing, such

1852
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,880
an incredible place.
It's I, I, I, I, I took it for

1853
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,240
granted for so many years until
I had a family.

1854
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:27,520
And then once I, once I had,
once I had kids, you know, I

1855
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,000
started getting emotional at the
national anthem at like sports

1856
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,080
games, you know, like what's
going on over here?

1857
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,320
I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm
tearing up and I'm crying.

1858
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,280
I'm like thinking about the hope
for like, you know, and

1859
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,800
everything that this place
represents and, and, and

1860
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:41,880
everything in it.
And I'm like, I, I, I just, I, I

1861
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:44,840
love this place, you know, it's,
it's, it's really amazing.

1862
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,600
I absolutely agree.
I to this day, I get goosebumps

1863
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:51,520
hearing it.
I mean, it means it's special,

1864
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:54,440
you know, and as much as I love
traveling around the world, I,

1865
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:57,480
you know, always come back here
and it just, it just feels good.

1866
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,000
What's your favorite country
outside of the States?

1867
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,000
What was your favorite country
visit?

1868
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,640
I'm.
Well, I'm partial to Germany

1869
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:10,080
because my mother's German and I
was actually born in Germany

1870
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,600
military base, but I was born in
Germany and I speak a little bit

1871
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,960
of German.
So I'm partial to to Germany.

1872
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,440
But everywhere I go, I, I love
Europe.

1873
01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:21,480
I, I love the history in Europe.
I love, I love when you look at

1874
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:23,720
a church and you're looking at
it going, Oh my goodness, that's

1875
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,360
been there since 1400.
Like, like if you were just

1876
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,440
walking around, like I'm like,
like, it's just mind blowing,

1877
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:33,240
right?
You know, And, but ultimately, I

1878
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:38,040
mean, I, you know, it, there's
beautiful places in the United

1879
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,480
States from the, from the
mountains to just the, the small

1880
01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:43,400
towns.
And it's just, it's just a

1881
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:46,640
gorgeous place to travel and
very fortunate that I can.

1882
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:51,920
Yeah, you're, I, I, I was just
in Barcelona and, and that

1883
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,120
enormous church there.
I've never been.

1884
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:03,200
I've never been speechless as a
result of, you know, a building,

1885
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:08,120
but the church blew me away.
I forgot what it's called.

1886
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:09,120
Do you know what I'm talking
about?

1887
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,240
That giant that that, that
enormous point of Barcelona.

1888
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:13,760
Doesn't surprise me.
Barcelona's, you know, it

1889
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:15,080
doesn't surprise you.
I'm Yeah.

1890
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I feel like Europe has that

1891
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:20,760
history.
America has like that life and

1892
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:24,160
that spirit that like, you know,
there's just like it's the,

1893
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,000
it's, it's the younger brother
of the entire world.

1894
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,560
I feel like that that cool,
enthusiastic younger brother

1895
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:32,640
that's just like figuring itself
out, you know, in a beautiful

1896
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:33,240
way.
I go hike.

1897
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:40,080
With some guys and we were in
Arizona and we were at his.

1898
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,000
We went to both Bryce and Zion
and both beautiful and Norman.

1899
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,840
We first grow in it was four of
us in the car, all adult males,

1900
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:50,880
right.
And we're all I mean it was it

1901
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:54,240
was literally probably the same
if it were 1520 years ago and we

1902
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,080
were all 13 year old females
meeting Justin Bieber for the

1903
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:59,120
first time.
Like we were all like, like,

1904
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:03,640
like it was.
So it was just breathtaking.

1905
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,800
It you had no words.
It just, it was absolutely

1906
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:08,120
incredible.
And I love that.

1907
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,320
But but yeah.
And then and then of course,

1908
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:12,160
then when you put it in
perspective and you're like, you

1909
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:14,920
know, and you're in Barcelona or
you're, you're somewhere else

1910
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,200
and you're like, gosh, this
thing has been here for 500

1911
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:18,400
years.
You know, think, think of the

1912
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:20,880
things, the conversations, the
people that have walked through

1913
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:22,840
here.
I just, I don't know, I love, I

1914
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,680
love that deep thinking and you
know, the impact these

1915
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:28,880
businesses have had.
I mean, that is just incredible.

1916
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:32,080
Yeah, I was just in Israel right
before this, right before the

1917
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:33,680
whole thing with Iran popped
off.

1918
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,000
I had a very close friend of
mine that got married there and

1919
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:40,800
I went to, I went to that
Western Wall and I was and I was

1920
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,840
there and I was like, this is a
spot.

1921
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:45,720
And I was just thinking, I'm
just sitting there and I'm like,

1922
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,440
this is a spot that people that,
that millions and millions of

1923
01:32:50,440 --> 01:32:53,720
people, you know, from every
religion in the world, from

1924
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,880
everywhere, all over the world,
just come and pray.

1925
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,080
And I'm like, there's so much
significant like, like it's just

1926
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:03,280
a spot of prayer and love and
hope.

1927
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:05,800
And I'm like, and you just
soaking in you're like, this is

1928
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:10,840
just this is, it's so beautiful
and it's, it's so profound.

1929
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,920
And I think I, I, I think, I
hope America will get something

1930
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:15,960
like that.
I really do.

1931
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:18,160
I hope that we get some like,
because I think that what we

1932
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:21,760
need to be grounded a little bit
more is like something spiritual

1933
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:26,520
and something, you know, we have
amazing national spirit.

1934
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:28,280
We have a beautiful sense of
patriotism.

1935
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,000
America, Americans, you know,
and like, it's always been the

1936
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:34,400
case.
And but I do we have a location

1937
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:38,040
that like, is like the
manifestation of all those hopes

1938
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:41,920
and dreams, you know, I mean,
and I think that it would be a

1939
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:44,320
beautiful, beautiful,
magnificent thing to like, that

1940
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:49,000
would be like a huge cultural
thing for the country to have a

1941
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,520
physical manifestation of a
place that people can like

1942
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:56,320
connect to.
No, I agree, but I tell you I've

1943
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:58,080
been the first time I ever saw
the Statue of Liberty.

1944
01:33:58,520 --> 01:33:59,720
Yes, maybe that's it.
I didn't.

1945
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,240
I didn't cry, but it was pretty
amazing.

1946
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:05,360
I mean, it felt, I felt that
warm, you know, those goosebumps

1947
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:06,880
and thought.
And this is think of all these

1948
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:09,920
folks who've come to this
country following this amazing

1949
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,360
dream, right?
Yeah.

1950
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:14,400
And what other country in the
world has has just opened their

1951
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:16,680
arms to, you know, it's just I
don't know.

1952
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:18,440
I thought that was but but
you're right.

1953
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:21,920
I don't know that we ever will
have that that place like you

1954
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:22,840
describe.
You gotta build it.

1955
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:24,600
You gotta build it.
Build it and they will come.

1956
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:31,560
That's why we have a small right
here.

1957
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:35,920
That's right, Right, Right.
Definitely, definitely,

1958
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:37,920
definitely.
Brian, I really appreciate the

1959
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:39,960
time.
Thank you so much for, for

1960
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,200
getting back to me so quickly,
working with me so quickly,

1961
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:45,200
taking the time to record this.
This is, this is so much fun.

1962
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:47,840
And I, I, you're, you're a
service and all that you've done

1963
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:51,520
and your teaching and your work
on the ground really, really

1964
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:53,840
means the world to me and means
the world, I'm sure to everyone

1965
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,240
that's going to listen to this.
And, and I didn't get to talk to

1966
01:34:57,240 --> 01:34:59,720
you about Eagle sticks, but
maybe that'll be for another

1967
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:03,680
time.
Thank you.

1968
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:05,440
This was.
This is really, really

1969
01:35:05,440 --> 01:35:07,160
delightful, Ryan.
Thank you so much.

1970
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:09,040
Thanks for the time.
I hope to be in touch.

1971
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:09,880
OK.
Thank you so much.

1972
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,600
Have a great day, man.
Happy 4th of July.

1973
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:13,280
You as well.
All right, take care.

1974
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:13,920
Happy bye.
Bye.

1975
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:15,040
Bye.
Bye.