#119: Dr. Zafra Lerner

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together,

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Doctor Zafra Lerman.
Welcome.

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I'm so happy to have you.
Did you say Zafra or Zafra?

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Zafra, it's a tadi faireesh alif
it's from the Talmud.

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Oh, really?
Yeah.

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My sister is Tipora and she's
Cy.

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She she spells in English CYP.
I was supposed to be Tipora, but

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my father that was a pioneer,
made that nobody that Ayaspora

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held about.
OK.

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It's all tough, OK.
Well, I love it.

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I love it so.
So tell me a little bit about

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yourself.
Tell me about who you are, what

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you, what you know, what your,
what your work that you've done

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and you're still going full
steam ahead.

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You're not stopping ever.
And I love that and I think it's

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amazing.
OK.

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I was born in Israel when it was
still the British Mandate of

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Palestine.
So I managed to get the birth

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certificate that says that my
nationality is Palestinian.

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I am really a person that can
prove that I'm Palestinian.

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It says my nationality is
Palestinian.

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I grew up in Israel.
My parents belong to belong to

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the generation that built the
country.

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My father both of them came from
very Orthodox family.

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My father, his friends in the US
used to tell me that he would

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walk around in, They lived in a
state rule in a small town near

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Odessa, and everybody was ultra
Orthodox.

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And he would walk around and
tell them that just to pray will

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not save the Jews, that there
will be not only pogroms, but

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there will be something was the
pogrom and only having a Jewish

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state can save.
So one day he walked along the

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water with his mother.
He was 17.

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He's so roughed.
He said goodbye and went to

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build the Jewish state and
arrived in 1920.

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Took him two years to arrive and
my they met there.

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My mother was there again from a
very, very Orthodox family near

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Kiev, in a town near Kiev, and
the Bolshevik killed their

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parents and their older brother.
So they were left 8 orphans, 7

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girl.
The last one was a boy and my

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mother was the youngest among
all the girls.

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She was very young.
They did not want to separate,

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so they moved from one place to
the other till they arrived to

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Palestine can.
I ask you, Doctor, I'm sorry,

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just to clarify, in case anyone
doesn't know, can you tell me

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just briefly about the
Bolsheviks, in case anyone

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listening does not know about
them, because I didn't know

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about them until very recently.
And so I want anyone listening

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to understand the context.
During that period, it was the

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now it's Ukraine, it was Russia
for many years.

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And there were, it was before
the revolution, before the

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communists took over.
They were a group that they were

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the Bolsheviks that were trying
to establish the the communism

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and they were killing Jews for
no reason, just walking and

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killing Jews.
And not only that, they were

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forcing the families to bury
their dead.

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And this would happen to my
mother's family.

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Was there was there excuse that
it was overpopulation or there

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was no excuse?
So since when is there an excuse

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to kill the Jews?
Right.

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Few times they make an excuse
but you know anti-Semitism is a

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a disease.
I call it the disease.

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My grandfather used to say that
that that that that that that

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gets passed down in people's
mother's milk.

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He said that.
He used to say that about the

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Ukrainians, and he said that the
Ukrainians and the Polish got

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their anti-Semitism from their
mother's milk.

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It's it's very deep.
It's very deep and there is,

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this is what it is.
Look, on October seven, the

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terrorist that threw babies into
the oven and burned them in

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front of the parents and then
beheaded their their parents,

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they videotaped it and sent it
back home is to show what big

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heroes they are and what they
are doing.

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And it's it's the haters to the
Jews goes on for many, many

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years.
And I have my own explanation,

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but it's not for this podcast.
No problem.

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Beautiful.
OK, thank you for clarifying.

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So you're, so both your parents
came to Palestine pre, you know,

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British mandated Palestine.
By the way, my grandmother who's

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Yemenite, my dad's mother also,
her family came.

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I don't know exactly what year
they came from Yemen.

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And there were, I think 12 or 13
of them of the kids.

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And they all served in the
British Army for many, many

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years until until the state of
Israel started to exist.

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And they all lived on King
George Street.

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And my and two, I think 2, my
uncle and my aunt are still

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alive today and still live there
now.

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And they have hundreds of family
members.

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You have to explain King George
Street.

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In which town?
Which?

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City in your Salaam.
I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.
In Jerusalem, I apologize.

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Yes, King George in Jerusalem
and what was, you know, all of

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Jerusalem was just a couple of
blocks at the time that that,

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that, that we had access to
correct.

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Different periods and that
stage, yes, we had the access to

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to everywhere because it was all
the British Mandate of

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Palestine, the High Commissioner
to Palestine.

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He lived in what is is
Jerusalem, but he was

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responsible for all of Palestine
and the till now there is the

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House of the High Commissioner
Baytanati value and the the the

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first High Commissioner to
Palestine was Lord Herbert

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Samuel that was Jewish and his
grandson that was born in the

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house where the High
Commissioner lived.

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He became Lord Lord David
Herbert Samuel the Right on Bull

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of Mount Carmel and he was my
PhD advisor.

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And the.
Weisman Institute of Science and

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when I did my PhD in chemistry
and he always asked me why did

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you choose me?
And I said because I looked all

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over for a professor and a load,
so I didn't have many choices.

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Like was making fun of him for
sure.

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The field of research was what I
wanted to work with him, but I

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always used to.
But I have to admit that when he

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used to come to the American
Chemical Society meeting in the

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US, his credit card did not have
his name.

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It was the Right Honourable
Vikrant of my Carmel and all the

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cameras.
Will you introduce me to the

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Lord?
Will you introduce me to the

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Lord?
He was a big attraction because

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he was a Lord.
Wow, yeah, so cool, so

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interesting.
And getting your chemistry,

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getting your PhD at the time, I
don't remember I was talking, I

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was telling my mother that you
did that and she said that at

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the time it was very difficult
for women to get their pH DS.

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I don't know if that's accurate.
What was that your experience?

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Very accurate it was how do they
were not wearing women till few

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years ago where we was fighting
to to accept more women.

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The same was in medical school.
Today, medical school in the US,

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the majority are women. 20 years
ago we had to fight to get women

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for sure.
In addition, I was already

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married with a child because I
got my career started from every

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point of view very young and so
this was very unusual and

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probably still unusual till
today to have a child as an

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undergraduate student and
managed to go straight for a

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bachelor, master, PhD.
My son attended all my 3

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ceremonies.
That's beautiful.

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It's crazy.
It's beautiful.

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It's such an amazing thing.
Yeah.

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Wow.
Was very nice.

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But you know, in my high school
class I was already the only

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girl because I went to a reality
school in in Haifa that was a

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very, very high level school.
But we had like majors already

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in high school and in order to
get to a major in science and

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math, you had like to take
exams.

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And I come the first day to
school and I realize I'm the

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only girl.
So during all the periods where

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girl have the best girlfriends,
my best girlfriends were boys

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because I didn't have girls in
my class.

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Did you?
Were you?

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Were you?
Did your parents put a big

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emphasis on education?
That's why you were able to,

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That's why you pushed to do it.
Or did you?

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Did you have the drive?
If my parents would push me for

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education, I probably would be
elementary without, because

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everything that somebody tried
to push me, I had to do the

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opposite.
So no.

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My father told me that what will
be nice is if I'll be a

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kindergarten teacher and then
I'll have always vacation with

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my children will have vacation.
But now I knew I'll be a

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scientist when I was two years
old.

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Wow.
From the question I, I, I was

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asking, I remember spending
hours in front of the mirror and

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saying I had neighbors that were
identical twins.

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So I thought I have one because
it looked so cool to me that

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everybody should have one.
So I was sitting in front of the

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mirror and trying to persuade
mind twin to come and be with

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me.
Erin said it's not a twin, you

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don't have a twin, it's you.
I said to me, what am I doing

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there?
If I'm here, how does that work?

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And I would have the questions
like that from a very young age.

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I remember there was a wooden
box and it was say, this is the

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voice of Jerusalem, it was the
radio.

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And I will get anybody to
explain to me how am I in

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national in the beginning and
then in Haifa, how am I there?

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How can I hear the voice of
Jerusalem?

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So this kind of questioning all
the time, I knew that I will be

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a scientist.
And then, you know, by the age

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of 13, I already was in this
class that was science and math,

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but I was the only girl.
So I knew I'm going One

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Direction.
And I went to the Technion

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Israel Institute of Technology
for my bachelor and master.

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And then I moved to Rehovert
near Tel Aviv from my PhD to

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Weitzman Institute.
That is one of the best science

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research science research
institutes in the world, one of

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the best.
Yeah, yeah.

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And I mentioned to you
yesterday, we were talking on

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the phone that I was just there
myself and it's really, really

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cool.
And I was staying in, I stayed

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in Rehovote for the first time.
I'd never been there before.

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And I fell in love with the
place.

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I thought it was so charming and
so nice and so, and it it was a

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great bridge between families
and and city, you know, that,

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you know, you could do the
apartments were spacious enough

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that they could, you know, you
could put a family in it and you

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could feel comfortable with a
nice porch and a nice and, you

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know, and, and everyone felt,
felt, you could tell it felt

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very at home with all the parks,
you know, just for everyone to

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come hang out together.
I kind of wish that America had

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a little bit more of those type
of structures that it was

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socially part of life to just,
you know, go to a park and just

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talk to people that are there.
You know, I mean, that's

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something that we that we're
missing here.

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Oh, from social life and people
to people.

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We are missing much more than
Israel has.

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When people say to me, what do
you miss in Israel?

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I say to people, the people you
know, it's just, it's a

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community.
Yeah, yeah.

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Even even when I go to any event
or something, anywhere in the

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world, immediately it is really
sound together because it's a

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family.
It's just one big family.

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And this you don't have in the
in the US and like in like a

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condominium in Israel, everybody
knows each other.

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They they socialize with each
other.

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I can't believe what?
Their doors are unlocked, people

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just come in and out of each
other's houses.

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It's crazy.
I can't believe that people

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don't know and everything you
have to call.

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If no, now it's it's different.
You don't call anymore.

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You tell X to find out when you
can make phone call.

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Yes, yes, yes.
I noticed, I, I noticed that I,

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that when I was there, I was
there for a week and then I was

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in Amsterdam and for a couple of
days and I noticed that, that I

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really enjoyed that.
It felt like it wasn't like that

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in that part of the world that
people were really much more

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inclined to just talk to each
other in the street.

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You know, I went to a coffee
shop in Amsterdam and I was

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saying, should I, I said to my
friend, let's go sit outside and

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00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,960
right outside the door, I guess
the door was open a little bit

228
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,120
and the people, the two women
outside heard that we were

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00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,840
saying that there was, there's
only one table.

230
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,440
There was, there's three chairs
and they moved over and pulled

231
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,600
over another chair and said
there's only one table, but we'd

232
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,520
love to sit with you.
When's the next?

233
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,520
When's the last time you heard
someone doing that in Manhattan?

234
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,000
You know, it was awesome.
You heard someone doing that in

235
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,560
Miami Beach or anything like
that.

236
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,040
It doesn't.
It doesn't happen, you know.

237
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,400
So I thought it was really,
really wonderful.

238
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,200
I would like to try to normalize
it, but I don't know what the

239
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,200
root of the problem is.
Maybe it's social media, maybe

240
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,359
it's, you know, all this
identity politics.

241
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,400
I don't know.
It's social media, but in many,

242
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,119
many.
Years.

243
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,560
Oh yeah.
It's now much better than when

244
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,400
when I just came to the States,
I remember the belly were

245
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,319
outdoor places.
It was unusual.

246
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,840
I said what's wrong?
I wasn't slowed down.

247
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,000
I said why are they not outdoor
places?

248
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:44,600
So no, I think now we are much
better than when it was than it

249
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,600
was before the social media, I
don't blame the social media for

250
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,280
this development because it
proceeded with social media.

251
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,680
So the social media, we can
blame off it with anything

252
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,640
because they have
misinformation, but.

253
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,720
You say they exasperated it.
They made it worse.

254
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,960
No, I don't think they have
anything to do with it.

255
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:13,240
OK, I don't think social media
has anything to do with it.

256
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,120
It's last day.
This is how we develop.

257
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:25,400
Remember this country was built
with people that came from Great

258
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,520
Britain and they had a different
culture.

259
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:38,360
And this was the beginning, the
culture that became part of the

260
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:43,000
culture in the US.
It's it's different, but it's

261
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:49,920
for sure developed much more to
have outdoor things and people

262
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,160
talking to each other.
So it's not like in Israel.

263
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,400
In Israel you talk, everybody
talks to everybody.

264
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,000
Another thing that is very
typical, if you go, if you are a

265
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,480
child or an adult, if you are
let's say on a tour in a bus,

266
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,680
people think all the time.
This I did not see anywhere

267
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,760
else.
Only if it's an Israeli tour all

268
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,480
the time.
You think it's a really?

269
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,080
It's beautiful.
Yes, it really.

270
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,720
Is the boss.
It really is.

271
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,200
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's
full of life.

272
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,920
And I do you think that and I,
I've thought about this, I'm

273
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,880
curious what you think.
I feel that maybe because

274
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,840
there's always so much conflict
in Israel that there's more of a

275
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,320
sense of family and unity
because they're always feeling

276
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,840
like their back is against the
wall.

277
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,520
Whereas in the States, we're
very isolated and we don't feel

278
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,520
the same type of threats in the
same way.

279
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,720
And so, you know, I mean, if
things are too peaceful, you

280
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,600
know, it is up for too long
sometimes, you know, we intend

281
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,840
to bicker like family.
You know, like if my siblings

282
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,800
and I are in the house for too
long, we start to fight.

283
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,360
But if someone else comes up to
us, we all get together

284
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,480
immediately, you know?
Do you think it's something like

285
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,040
that or what do you think?
I don't, I don't think so.

286
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:22,320
I think it's just character.
I'll I'll tell you when I go to

287
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,320
events, for example, and I am
many years in the state.

288
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,480
Sure, I'm back and forth and I
lived in Switzerland in between

289
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,640
and you're a scientist, you live
all over.

290
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:47,240
But but when I go to to events,
even Jewish event and there is a

291
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:53,120
group of Israelis that let's say
they bought in in order to talk

292
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:57,560
of something automatically I'm
going to sit with them.

293
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:04,680
It's, it's just automatically
there is an attraction to each

294
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,240
other.
And I, I, I think this is how

295
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,760
the nature developed.
Remember there were kibbutzim.

296
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,040
What is the kibbutz commune?
It's you live together.

297
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,040
This was the basis of building
the country where the kibbutzim,

298
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,960
it's a commune.
You eat together, you do

299
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:30,960
everything together.
So I think it's just developed

300
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,920
this characteristic.
Yeah, it's actually fascinating.

301
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,280
My, I was just reading my Saba.
My, my grandfather wrote a book

302
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,360
about his childhood, I think,
you know, and, and I, I never

303
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,720
read it all the way through
because I wasn't really aware of

304
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,040
the, the history and the
politics and even the geography

305
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,640
of what he was, of what his
family was going through.

306
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,800
And, and he and I and he said,
he mentioned to me that he was

307
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,640
in a kibbutz.
And I thought that I didn't know

308
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,240
that you lived in Israel.
And he said, no, the kibbutz was

309
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,560
in Germany.
He said kibbutz just means, just

310
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,480
means, you know, commune and,
you know, and I think the goal

311
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,320
was ultimately to end up there.
And he said that people would

312
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,120
end up going to Palestine or
after 48, going to Israel.

313
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,440
But but he said that kibbutz is
a kibbutz.

314
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,600
It could be, you know, and I
guess what you're saying to

315
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,720
reinforce it, it's the DNA of
the country.

316
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,640
Is this community together?
Yes.

317
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,720
Yeah.
So can you tell me about

318
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,200
Weitzman, what it was like when
you were there?

319
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,520
What was?
What was it like getting your

320
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,880
PhD there at the time?
Spend a lot of time in Weitzman.

321
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,960
I hope to be there in the
beginning of September too.

322
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:43,160
It's just it's Weitzman is not a
university, doesn't have

323
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,920
undergraduate at Weitzman, there
is only graduate students

324
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,960
usually, but for a long time it
was only PhD, now it's Master

325
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,200
and PhD.
And Weitzman now for the first

326
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:05,560
time will open this year medical
school where students will get

327
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,640
MDPHD, so they will do research
too.

328
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:16,400
It will be the first year that
this medical school will be

329
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,200
open, but Weitzman is a
community first.

330
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,040
Everybody first.
If you were there, you you go in

331
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:32,560
through a gate and most of the
faculty lives on campus.

332
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,320
It's like, it's like a big
research kibbutz.

333
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,160
There is theatre, there's
concerts, but the research is

334
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,280
outstanding.
And it's an International

335
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:53,600
School, so the language is
English, and any top scientist

336
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,360
in the world spends time at the
Weitzman Institute.

337
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,600
I had lectured by so many Nobel
laureates when I was a graduate

338
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:10,840
student and when I came as a
postdoc to Cornell, and I

339
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,680
realized that many of them only
met the Nobel laureates that was

340
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,680
at Cornell.
But never I knew so many Nobel

341
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,920
laureates because they spend
sabbatical advice money and they

342
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,760
are from all over.
They are from Europe, they are

343
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,040
from everywhere, not just the
US.

344
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:39,400
So you have even the opportunity
to meet the greatest scientist

345
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,640
in the world, not just in in
Israel.

346
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:51,160
And the atmosphere is very, very
interesting.

347
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:57,640
It's the collegiality.
It's, it's just a wonderful,

348
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:05,560
wonderful place to be in.
And it does really wonderful

349
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,480
research.
Sadly now some research were

350
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:16,040
suffered was of the ballistic
missile from Iran that destroyed

351
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,960
the whole building of all the
life sciences.

352
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:26,400
So samples for cancer reasons
that were collected for years

353
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:32,400
were destroyed.
But they will because it's such

354
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,040
a great at the Weitzman
Institute, you see like 24

355
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,040
hours, the scientist goes to
work when they have inspiration.

356
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:48,480
It's not a nine to five job.
And this is very nice all times

357
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,720
of the days.
Therefore, when I'm in Israel, I

358
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,520
wanted, I want always to stay at
the guest house at the Weitzman

359
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,680
Institute.
And many, many of the scientists

360
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,600
and Weitzman are involved in my
project, the Malta conferences

361
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,600
where we use science diplomacy.
There's a bridge to peace in the

362
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,160
at least.
Yes.

363
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,840
So I want to talk about that.
I'm really excited about that

364
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,400
because this until you reached
out, I've never I've heard of

365
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,720
obviously scientific
conferences, I've heard of

366
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,080
scientists that were pro peace.
I've never heard of the of a

367
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,320
scientific community gathering
together for the purpose of

368
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,320
World Peace in a formal
organization.

369
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,120
I thought it was so unique and
so beautiful and so cool.

370
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,720
Is unique.
I think it's the only one.

371
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,240
I think it's amazing.
How did you how?

372
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,360
How did it come about?
I cared for the American

373
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:52,840
Chemical Society for 26 years,
the Subcommittee on Scientific

374
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:58,880
Freedom and Human Rights, and
this was a period with a lot of

375
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,280
human rights abuses in the
Soviet Union, mainly.

376
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:09,800
But China came after Tiananmen
Square, But I started with the

377
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,120
Soviet Union.
I was going into the Soviet

378
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,360
Union with a group of
scientists.

379
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:25,400
We were guest of universities
lecturing and after midnight I

380
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,320
would leave the group and they
were asleep and I would go in

381
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:36,680
dark alleys where I met
dissidents, mainly refuseniks.

382
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:42,800
Refuseniks were scientists that
wanted to emigrate from the

383
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,640
Soviet Union and therefore they
were fired from their job.

384
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,080
They were not allowed to work,
but then they were blamed that

385
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,400
they are parasites and many of
them were sent to hard labor in

386
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:02,720
Siberia and they could not have
any contact with scientists.

387
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:09,160
It was illegal to bring them
scientific material or give them

388
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,360
seminar.
So I would go after midnight and

389
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:18,320
meet dark alleys.
I would meet several of these

390
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:25,600
refuse next, and then we would
go to a Dark Ethics where at

391
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,200
2:00 AM I would give a seminar
and distribute scientific

392
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,840
magazines that I bought with me
and collected their resumes and

393
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:44,640
CVS so I could work on their
behalf when I came back and make

394
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,480
sure that they can come out to
freedom in my that's.

395
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,040
Extremely dangerous though, no?
Surely it's dangerous.

396
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,160
Why?
What made you take that chance I

397
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,480
made you?
What pushed you to take that

398
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,800
risk?
The values I received going up

399
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:11,760
in Israel, the way I was brought
up, the values that from a very

400
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,680
young age I was taught to help
others.

401
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,200
But it's very interesting that
you say that because I have here

402
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,480
a part of a letter that one of
these people that was in hard

403
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,640
labour in Siberia and I worked
on his behalf and he came to

404
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:41,440
Chicago and the first lecture he
ever gave in in the US was here

405
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,600
to the American Chemical Society
Chicago section.

406
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:52,160
But I was nominated to receive
the the Andrei Sakharov Award

407
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,320
for Human Rights.
And he sent a letter on my

408
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,120
behalf.
But I liked a paragraph and I

409
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,520
want to share it because he
said.

410
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,760
I want to hear it please.
He said.

411
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,800
I often wondered what could make
a person living in freedom,

412
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:20,000
safety and comfort to fight for
someone deprived of that and

413
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,000
languishing on the other side of
the globe.

414
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:29,880
I realized that both the far
away victim in the American

415
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:36,160
Guardian Angel had the same
ability to go against it tide.

416
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,280
And they did for science
something which could hardly,

417
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:49,080
which could hardly be
rationalized in an exhausting

418
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:58,520
job of fixing its very
foundation, invisible on the

419
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:05,280
pages of professional journals,
they kept science boss humane

420
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,000
and humane.
Incredible.

421
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,760
Excuse me.
Very emotional.

422
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:17,480
Think a lot how it's true
because these people suffer

423
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:24,320
because they stood up for what
they believed in and This is why

424
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,240
I risked their lives to do what
I believed in.

425
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,600
And I thought he put it in
beautiful words.

426
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,760
You really did did Were you?
Were you afraid at any point, or

427
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,560
did you force yourself to not
think about it?

428
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:47,440
No, I was not afraid.
I'm afraid of mouse, mouse or

429
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,400
red, but usually not of any kind
of people.

430
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,040
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.

431
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,240
So that's so so that's how
that's how the Malta Foundation

432
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,520
got started.
So after September 11, I

433
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,280
suggested to the board of the
American Chemical Society that

434
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,120
my committee will start in
addition concentrate on the

435
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,480
Middle East.
And they said, what do you mean?

436
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:25,160
I said I would like my
subcommittee to organize a

437
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,760
conference for scientists from
all the countries of the Middle

438
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,520
East, no exception.
Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon,

439
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:42,000
Israel, the Palestinian, Jordan,
Egypt, everybody under one roof

440
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,400
for five days with several Nobel
laureates.

441
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,360
We give them a platform to see
what unites them, not what

442
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,960
separates them.
We give them a a platform to

443
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,400
stop demonizing the unknown
other.

444
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:07,600
And we give them a platform to
develop collaboration that no

445
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:15,080
one country alone can solve a
scientific problem like the

446
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,960
environment, the nature they
don't recognize the lines the

447
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,880
British put on the map.
There is borders.

448
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:31,920
So the aqueducts for water go
through several countries, clean

449
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,440
air.
If you clean the air only in

450
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,200
your country and the wind come,
the countries are there, no,

451
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,400
then it doesn't matter.
You must work together.

452
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:50,520
And in the beginning everybody
thought that I'm out of my mind

453
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,880
because it was the height of the
intifada.

454
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,840
And to explain to you, please,
yes, please.

455
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:05,720
The Intifada was in the
beginning of starting from 2000

456
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:13,760
on, and it was uprising by the
Palestinian and there were a lot

457
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:20,320
of suicide bombs in Israel and
restaurant and buses all over.

458
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,600
And really everybody said that I
would.

459
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,800
People started asking me, will
you have insurance?

460
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,440
He said, well, you have.
I said no, I'll find a safe

461
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,320
place.
And we had the first conference

462
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,360
in Malta because I felt that an
island will be safer as a

463
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:54,000
mainland #1 and #2 There were
very few flights to Malta, Rome,

464
00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:00,600
Frankfurt, London, and most of
the people had to have

465
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,600
connection.
So it took almost a day to fly

466
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,720
to Malta.
My calculation was that it

467
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:15,720
wouldn't be worthwhile for a
terrorist to waste a whole day

468
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:20,000
to fly and kill a lot of Muslims
and free Jews.

469
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:26,600
And This is why Malta was
selected for the 1st and 2nd

470
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,400
conference.
And This is why the name the

471
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:39,080
Malta Conferences Foundation and
the first two conferences where

472
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,960
when Malta was not part of the
European Union.

473
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,440
So you do not need a Schengen
visa, that is that.

474
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,160
But then Malta joined the
European Union and the visa

475
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:01,440
became the number one problem.
And I have in my book a tie a

476
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,760
chapter titled From Mission
Impossible to Mission Possible

477
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,840
because to get a visa to all
this group of countries is

478
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,640
Mission Impossible.
Just just for context, I want to

479
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,880
just, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I just want to add just for

480
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,720
context, on a much, much less
significant scale, on a much

481
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,160
smaller scale, I have a customer
now who called me.

482
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,320
I sell medical equipment.
He called me I believe from

483
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,360
Syria.
He was looking for an ultrasound

484
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,040
probe for Pediatrics.
And I said I'm happy to sell it

485
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,600
to you.
He says, how are you going to

486
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,400
get it to me?
And I said just FedEx or DHL, he

487
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,080
says, sorry, we were under
sanctions.

488
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,640
I can't, we can't do it that
way.

489
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,840
We have to figure it out.
So even something so stupid as

490
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,400
an $800 ultrasound probe, you
know, just shipping is so

491
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,200
difficult.
I can't even imagine getting a

492
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,440
visa at that time from people
from all over these different

493
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,320
countries to be able to come
together like that.

494
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,000
That must.
Wow.

495
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:05,520
It's getting worse, not better.
And as I said, the whole chapter

496
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,720
it devoted to the visa issue.
By the way, I want to throw you

497
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,920
my board.
Yes, I'm going to put the link

498
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,240
to it too, so that everyone that
everyone that hears it could buy

499
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:16,800
the book.
I'll put the link on the podcast

500
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,400
so that everyone can be everyone
can buy it.

501
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,000
And the soft, the soft cover
version, right?

502
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,320
Oh yeah.
That's right, it looks.

503
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,040
Full I didn't see the soft
cover.

504
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,760
I have to order a few, but
meanwhile I give this present

505
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:35,920
this one.
It looks beautiful.

506
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Buy it.
But I have to buy it.

507
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,960
Really.
Yes, I have to buy.

508
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,960
What do you think they give you
for free?

509
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,800
They give me a small discount
but I have to buy it.

510
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,840
So I want to give it a present.
I have to pay and I did not see

511
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,320
but the people that have the
paper back on Zooms I had.

512
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,440
I gave webinars and everybody
had it and they showed me.

513
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,960
It looked very nice too.
I bet.

514
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,480
Beautiful.
It looks beautiful, it's very

515
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,440
sleek, it's very elegant.
So anyway, so the visas.

516
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,560
So you so you had to get the
visas.

517
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,240
I'll give you a just example on
the people from Gaza.

518
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,040
Yes, there are scientists in
Gaza.

519
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,400
Yes, there are universities in
Gaza.

520
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,360
Yes, there are great people in
Gaza.

521
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,240
So I'll give you an example to
bring them to a conference.

522
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:36,440
Now they are out of Gaza because
I managed to get my people from

523
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:44,400
the Malta conference out long
ago when Egypt was ready to let

524
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,440
people come to Egypt only with
dual citizenship.

525
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,920
So they don't stay in Egypt.
Egypt doesn't want anybody from

526
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,920
Gaza to stay there.
I got them out and so they don't

527
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:05,760
have dual citizenship.
So people that don't have young

528
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,760
children, so they meanwhile stay
in Egypt illegally.

529
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,240
But people with young children,
they don't let them register the

530
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:20,480
kids to school.
So I have one young family.

531
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,200
And with all the support for the
people of Gaza, all the love

532
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,560
that the world shows them, I
spent for the last year

533
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:39,320
sleepless nights and long days
to try to get for one family

534
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,480
with two kids.
Wonderful family.

535
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,560
They will be a treasure for
every country that will get

536
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,440
them.
Nobody gave me a visa, not Arab

537
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,120
countries, not European
countries, not the very

538
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,720
progressive Democrats in
Congress that I referred to

539
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,120
them.
This is a different story.

540
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,840
It's so easy to scream from the
river to the sea, oh, over the

541
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,560
Palestinian.
But to help is enough.

542
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,920
And I'm still trying to find the
country.

543
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,040
I'm still working on that.
Wow.

544
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:25,520
So now I don't know how I'll be
able, if Egypt will let them fly

545
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,840
out from there, it will be
really a problem.

546
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:36,680
But before, when they were in
Gaza, Gaza has two borders, one

547
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,400
with Egypt, one with Israel.
The border with Egypt is

548
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,080
completely closed.
They cannot cross there.

549
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:53,440
It was even closed when Gaza was
part of Egypt from 481948 till

550
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,600
1967.
Gaza belonged to Egypt like the

551
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,440
West Bank belonged to Jordan.
All the people that lived in the

552
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:09,160
West Bank got Jordanian passport
and Jordanian citizenship.

553
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:15,840
The people that lived in Gaza
did not and could not even go

554
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,600
into Egypt.
So to fly through Egypt is out.

555
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,560
The other possibility to fly
from Jordan.

556
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,760
But the Gaza doesn't have a
border with Jordan.

557
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,800
Yeah, how do they get there?
Because Israel is there in.

558
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,760
Oh, so they go through Israel to
Jordan?

559
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,880
So, so easy to get them through
Israel.

560
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,880
I They could ride on a racket
because the racket they could

561
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:47,200
take a ride.
But I used to have to work

562
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:54,000
several months with the Foreign
Ministry of Israel to get them a

563
00:41:54,000 --> 00:42:01,760
permit to enter Israel and then
drive all the way to the north,

564
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,680
entering Gaza, crossing drive
all the way to the north to the

565
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,080
Alambi Bridge and crossing to
Jordan.

566
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,120
The Foreign Ministry in Israel
was very helpful to me.

567
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:20,040
For the last 20, we start to
talk.

568
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,680
For the last 24 years, extremely
happy.

569
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,040
I always got a permit.
It used to work like that.

570
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,160
You have now a window of three
hours, usually around midnight.

571
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:38,480
Tell your people to come there,
the car will wait for them and

572
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,840
take them from Eris Crossing to
Allenby.

573
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,560
But then they need the.
Three hour drive.

574
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:54,600
Probably, yeah, three hours
drive, but then they need a visa

575
00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:02,160
to cross to enter Jordan and
suddenly Jordan many times said

576
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,840
we don't give visa to people
from Gaza to enter Jordan.

577
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:12,280
So then I had to fight with the
Jordanian authorities to let

578
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,000
them come in and this took a
long time.

579
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,960
So practically it's a full time
job was just the visa for that

580
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,520
visa for Syrian is a much more
complicated.

581
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,360
No country wants to let Syrian
coming.

582
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:36,280
I hope now it will change.
And then there is Iran where a

583
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,680
lot of countries don't for sure
not the European Union and other

584
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,560
countries.
So it's it's describes in my

585
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,560
book.
It's such a hassle.

586
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,480
And the other challenge is that
we have to waste the money for

587
00:43:54,520 --> 00:44:01,320
everybody because, you know, in
the in the Middle East, in order

588
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,040
to be successful, everybody is
equal.

589
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,800
The Palestinian always tell me
it's the only conference that we

590
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,160
don't have to hear about our
poor Palestinian brothers that

591
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,280
could not pay.
Here, nobody pays.

592
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,400
We are equal and everybody likes
it.

593
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,600
No accompanying members.
Leave your spouses at home.

594
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,480
The Americans in the beginning
fought this ruling.

595
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,760
No, you go to a place like Malta
is beautiful, They wanted to get

596
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,240
their spouse, but as bad as
chemist.

597
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:45,440
You have to understand if you
dilute the solution, the

598
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,720
interaction is much slower.
We need a fast reaction.

599
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:54,200
We cannot dilute it with more
people, no company member.

600
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,680
Another reason is what few
countries could be able to pay

601
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,400
for their spouses and other
countries could not.

602
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,920
Then we lose the equality.
So it was the equality and the

603
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:15,240
dilution that we left them out.
And then you have to recruit the

604
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:19,760
Nobel lawyers.
Nobel lawyers usually get a big

605
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,080
on a radio.
Yeah.

606
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,520
Not only that, they don't get
many of them pay pay their own

607
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,320
airline.
Wow.

608
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,720
Because they are devoted to the
'cause they do it for the cause.

609
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,520
So.
How many people are at these

610
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,400
conferences?
Usually a couple of dozen or a

611
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,520
couple of 100 or less. 100. 100
limit.

612
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,000
Beautiful.
Because even that 80 is the

613
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,400
ideal.
Because 80, then everybody

614
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,720
manages to know each other and
it's already a little bit

615
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:01,440
harder, but there are more, more
people that want to participate

616
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:10,200
and it's how to to select.
So it's 100 and we have already

617
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:18,040
700 people in our network. 17
Nobel laureates already

618
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:24,400
participated.
Many of them participated 23456

619
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,320
times or more because they
believe in the cause.

620
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,640
The Malta Conferences Foundation
is the only platform in the

621
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:41,080
world that brings together all
the participants from all the

622
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,080
Middle East, and they're the
same move.

623
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:51,400
And there was efforts to imitate
us.

624
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:57,720
Even Elie Wiesel tried, but
after three conferences and he

625
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:03,080
was loaded with money to do it.
But after three conferences he

626
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:10,040
did not succeed and he did not
get all the countries and it

627
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,200
stopped.
But Malta is going on.

628
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:21,440
The first one was in 2003.
Can I ask, and I guess, I guess

629
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,920
it's almost human nature that in
a time of conflict, I, I would

630
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,120
imagine, especially during the
intifada that a lot of people

631
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,200
wouldn't be interested in going
to try and, you know, reach out

632
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,400
to Palestinians and Syrians and
Iranians.

633
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,920
And what I mean, what first of
all, what made you in particular

634
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,960
look for that at that point in
time?

635
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,240
And, and was that, and what was
the pushback when you were

636
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:48,560
trying to do that at that point
in time?

637
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Because I think the context is
really important.

638
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:51,720
The point in time is.
Super important.

639
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:56,120
Explain to you something.
We always say science diplomacy

640
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,320
can succeed where other kind of
diplomacies cannot.

641
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:07,440
Science diplomacy doesn't see
religion, doesn't see borders,

642
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,800
doesn't see language, doesn't
see culture.

643
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:18,880
It's science, and all the
scientists share the same thing.

644
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:24,680
I always like to say that as
scientists from Bethlehem, PA.

645
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,240
And I'm very happy that they
have a Bethlehem there so I can

646
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:35,200
use it is from Bethlehem, PA and
the scientists from the real

647
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,120
Bethlehem on the West Bank can
communicate to each other

648
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,720
without knowing each other
language.

649
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,360
And This is why science is
different.

650
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:55,160
And I did not have any problem
to persuade the scientists to

651
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,920
come.
There was nobody that was afraid

652
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,520
to do it.
And you know, it's, it's a

653
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:14,560
special conference and, but the
most important thing is that we

654
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:20,560
keep everything confidential
till after the conference.

655
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,720
People used to tell me, oh, I
looked at your website and he

656
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,880
doesn't have the dates of the
upcoming conference.

657
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,760
It has the dates of the
conference.

658
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,360
That was I said, you're right.
You will see the dates of the

659
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,160
conference that is coming up now
only after.

660
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:43,640
The concert, so you don't want
it to be open like that.

661
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:52,520
Listen, there are people that
when we were in Morocco, we had

662
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:57,800
demonstration of, there is a
small group of Palestinian in

663
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:04,360
Morocco, very militant and
there, there were no detectors

664
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,320
entering the metal detectors
entering the hotel.

665
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:15,720
And suddenly two days later they
heard about that and the

666
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,800
demonstration came and
immediately the the metal

667
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,440
detector appeared in the front
of the hotel.

668
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:33,720
So we try not to make it public
till after the conference.

669
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,040
It's really, really beautiful.
It's really, really amazing.

670
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:42,160
So what about your and after
aside from Malta, of course,

671
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,760
which is a full time job,
obviously, the way that you're

672
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,080
describing it, I can't even
imagine, you know, I get.

673
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,600
The money is a full time job
because every penny we raise

674
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,280
goes to the conference, so there
is no money to pay a fundraiser

675
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:00,560
to.
Raise the money.

676
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:04,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What what about what about

677
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,440
chemistry?
Have you, did you, do you

678
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,400
continue to study chemistry or
do you, what's, what do you do

679
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,720
with?
Chemistry continues to be

680
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:18,760
involved in education chemistry.
I did research on secondary

681
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,480
isotope effect and I'm not going
to explain it.

682
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,760
No problem.
And it will take too long, but

683
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,680
then I believe that science
education is the human rights

684
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,600
that belong to all.
And Prince Hassa and His Royal

685
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,000
Highness Prince Hassan of
Jordan.

686
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,480
King Hussein Bader always quotes
me when he gives the talk.

687
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:46,680
Really I.
Know very well because he's

688
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:52,960
participants in Malta.
So I believe it's a human right.

689
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,880
And you know the half percent of
the population that will become

690
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,120
scientists.
It doesn't matter how you teach

691
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,040
because they will become
scientists with the worst

692
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,280
teachers in the world.
But the rest of them have to

693
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,840
understand science in order to
live in our society this day.

694
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,160
And I always say if we will
leave them behind, we will form

695
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:24,360
A2 class society separated not
by royalty but by knowledge of

696
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:31,480
science and technology.
So the the point is to find a

697
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,960
way to attract everybody to take
science.

698
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:41,840
And I developed a way to teach
science through art, music,

699
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,920
dance, drama.
Rap.

700
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,120
Really.
Animation.

701
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:52,400
There is a huge chapter in the
book about that in examples and

702
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:58,440
it became very popular.
And in order to show that it's

703
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,600
real science, I had a NSF
National Science Foundation

704
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,920
grant together with Princeton
University that we developed the

705
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:13,400
same class with my methods.
We called it from ozone to oil

706
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,200
spill, chemistry, the
environment, the new for their

707
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:22,360
non science majors.
And every year my class that was

708
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:29,040
mainly minorities flew to
Princeton for a joint symposium.

709
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,720
And all the media will cover it
all the time.

710
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,680
And they used to call it the
meeting of two cultures and it

711
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,920
was 2 cultures.
It was very, very interesting.

712
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,040
Then it was adopted all over the
world in different places.

713
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,080
I, by myself adopted the town of
Soweto.

714
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,360
I received the first
international award in the New

715
00:53:54,360 --> 00:54:00,160
Democratic South Africa.
It was international award.

716
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:05,280
So while I was there, I adopted
this town of Soweto.

717
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:10,040
It's the only town that in one
straight to Nobel laureate live

718
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:16,640
Bishop Tudu and Mandela.
So I adopted their school

719
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:22,160
district and I lectured there
and I worked with the teachers

720
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,480
to teach there.
The same way I was in Kenya, in

721
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:34,360
many universities and I was in a
lot of countries, few for human

722
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:41,440
rights, few for other reasons.
And it became very, very

723
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,560
successful, especially with
underprivileged students.

724
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:52,040
I worked with homeless kids that
I taught them through Dance at

725
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,000
Night in Dance Studio.
I was the head of the science

726
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,200
institute so I could bring my
faculty and we all were teaching

727
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,840
them through Dance at Night.
There's a picture where I sit on

728
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,880
the floor and they are all
around me and everybody has a

729
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:15,160
periodic table on the floor.
And many of them went to college

730
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,000
and two continued for a PhD in
biochemistry.

731
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:25,000
I taught prisoners like that and
they became very successful and

732
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,880
it became a very successful way
to teach people that otherwise

733
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,280
would not come close to that.
And there are a lot of examples

734
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:39,080
for that in my book.
For if there are teachers in

735
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,800
your audience, I don't know
who's your audience, they would

736
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:49,840
be very interested in that.
And we have a YouTube, as a

737
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:55,200
matter of fact, with a lot of
the videos that show examples.

738
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:02,440
How theatre student hope to play
like Romeo and Juliet on love.

739
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,640
So between sodium and chlorine
to foam table salt.

740
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:15,240
And there are the kids dancing
the periodic table and the state

741
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:20,760
of matters and other dancers.
Depletion of the ozone layer so

742
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,000
that we have all that on
YouTube.

743
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,160
Can we have to check that out?
I'm going to also, by the way,

744
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,280
I'm going to find that link and
I'll post it also with the

745
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,760
episode.
So I'll have the link to the

746
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,680
book and the YouTube video for
for YouTube videos for people to

747
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,920
see.
Do you when, when you go to

748
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,400
these different countries, do
you reach out to them or they

749
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,080
find you or how does that work?
I'm invited.

750
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:45,600
You're invited.
How do they find you?

751
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,960
How do they come across?
How do they, I guess just from

752
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,400
your conference and?
How did they find me?

753
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,520
Yeah, I mean, if I if I lived in
Kenya, I wouldn't know how to

754
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,080
find.
I wouldn't know how to find

755
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,800
Doctor Safa Lerman, you know,
necessarily with that, you know,

756
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,800
too easily, you know, I mean,
unless I I wouldn't even know

757
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,360
how it.
Happened people publish and

758
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:10,720
there are even today on the
every day on the e-mail there is

759
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:14,680
some group called academia that
they want me to become a member.

760
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:21,160
But every day they give me the
list of the people that all

761
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:26,480
quote my papers or just read my
papers and describe it.

762
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:32,120
And can't believe that every day
there are people that are trying

763
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,440
to adopt this method and they
tell me that they they are

764
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:40,520
reading my papers so.
That's amazing.

765
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,800
That's amazing.
Did you, I read online and I

766
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,680
was, I did a quick Google before
you and I were talking before

767
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,440
you and I spoke yesterday and I
saw online that you prevented

768
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,440
executions before.
Can you tell me a little bit

769
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,440
about that?
It's part of working on human

770
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,560
rights, no?
I, I would imagine, but I, I

771
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,840
would also imagine that as a
chemist, I wouldn't think that

772
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,720
that's my job as a chemist to,
to do that.

773
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:12,400
I might say that it's not my
job, it's my conviction.

774
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,800
Yes.
Can you tell me some stories

775
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,280
about that?
I just read to you about one

776
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,120
person that I saved what he
wrote there.

777
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:30,560
But yes, when it was in Libya,
when they decided that the

778
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:37,400
doctor and five nurses spread
aids in the hospital while they

779
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,360
treated the patients and they
gave them death penalties.

780
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:50,680
And I mobilized like crazy a lot
of the human rights committees

781
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:59,720
around the world and, and wrote
and fought and did everything I

782
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:09,240
could in my in my power and in
all my connections and, and they

783
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,840
changed it and they let them.
By the way, the doctor was a

784
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,640
Palestinian.
So this shows you how the world

785
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:24,400
is crazy.
Here I am an Israeli, but I am

786
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:31,560
fighting and spending my time
and life and money to save a

787
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:38,000
Palestinian Dr. or to get the
Palestinian from Gaza that are

788
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,600
from the Malta conference out of
Gaza.

789
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:49,720
So it was not any Palestinian
living in the US, it was not the

790
00:59:49,720 --> 01:00:00,760
squad that is in the Congress
here, the led by Rashida Talib

791
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:10,920
and AOC and all this form.
Yes, and I'm none of them walked

792
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:17,360
and taking people out to safety.
So it's an Israeli that they did

793
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,600
and this shows you how crazy it
is the world.

794
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,520
It also shows you how cheap talk
is.

795
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,360
It shows you how easy it is to
talk and how much harder it is

796
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,360
to do anything.
But the problem is that the

797
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:36,320
world is very impressed with
talkers and it's it always says

798
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:41,840
a squeaking will gets attention.
That the will that does it's job

799
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,600
and does very well never gets
attention.

800
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,760
That's right.
But what is going on?

801
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:56,280
You know, And this tells you
that humanity is above all the

802
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:01,200
hatreds and the division that
are being forced on us.

803
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:04,640
Yeah, and you think it's being
forced or not?

804
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,680
I think so too, but.
It's being forced.

805
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,800
So it's being forced.
If you have a New York Time

806
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:17,280
magazine, New York Time
newspaper that shows a picture

807
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:26,480
of a young child, skinny like
hell, but doesn't show his

808
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:31,000
brother that is in the same
picture, four years old, very

809
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,280
well.
Fed doesn't cut that out, shows

810
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,920
that.
And look what Israel is doing.

811
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,280
And then has to apologize
because the child has a genetic

812
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,040
disease that causes him to look
like that.

813
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:51,200
So then they apologize, but they
don't show you the picture of

814
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:59,360
the hostage that just the the
Hamas release of the hostage

815
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,600
that is all skin and bones that
cannot even move.

816
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,840
You did not see this picture on
the New York Times.

817
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:15,000
So if you believe in the New
York Times, you don't get the

818
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,480
true information.
It's a very selective

819
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:25,320
information, very and for sure
social media is very selective.

820
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:30,560
But this is what's great about
science, that the science and

821
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:37,040
the scientists believe in the
truth and don't use the science

822
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:43,320
in for propaganda or different
political reasons.

823
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,840
We hope that not always people
listen to scientists.

824
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:53,240
Look what's happening now that
suddenly all the research on

825
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,040
vaccines that should save
millions of people was cut

826
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:05,440
because somebody that is not a
scientist and has some ideas not

827
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:10,840
based on science decided that
this research is not important.

828
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:16,240
Well, I, yeah, I would also, I
mean, I think that in today, in

829
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:21,200
particular in 2025, I think that
a lot of faith and a lot of

830
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,520
institutions, especially when
you hear stories like The New

831
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,080
York Times or you hear stories
about like Covic or you hear

832
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,240
story, you know, you hear
stories about different things

833
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,600
that that happened that are
clearly corrupt, that people

834
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,320
don't know what to believe or
not anymore.

835
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,440
And everything just gets thrown
out, you know, and that, and

836
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,920
right now there's just very
little faith, I think that

837
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,160
people have in in leaders and
institutions.

838
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,400
And they say, you know, forget
scientists, forget doctors,

839
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,160
forget anything, you know, like
they're all lying to us anyway.

840
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:51,960
Why should we believe them?
Forget journalists, they're all

841
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,320
lying.
Forget the newspaper, they're

842
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:54,800
all lying.
But then you don't know what's,

843
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,120
you don't know where to go.
You don't know what's real.

844
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,680
You don't know what's not.
And it's I think that that's the

845
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,960
root of a lot of the issue.
I don't think it's just that

846
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,760
it's pure deceit or pure
deception.

847
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,360
I think that it's a
manifestation of people feeling

848
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,560
let down.
I don't know if this is the

849
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:23,040
reason or what is the reason,
but I think that education is

850
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:31,120
suffering for many, many years.
And what a very educated person

851
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:37,960
can look and decide if it's true
or not, if it's logical or not,

852
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,600
because he or she can use their
critical thinking.

853
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,480
If you don't teach all that, you
don't teach logic, you don't

854
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,800
teach critical thinking, you
down the education.

855
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,360
No, it's at the bottom, makes
its way up.

856
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:59,600
It goes all the way up and you
believe in what somebody

857
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,760
persuaded you to believe.
Yeah.

858
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,120
And actually, I think that's why
I think in a big cultural

859
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,680
problem in the States is that
teachers that if you tell

860
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,760
someone you're a teacher, you
almost look down on, you know,

861
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,960
so you tell someone you're a
teacher, they're like, oh, come

862
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,200
on.
Like, you know, you're not a

863
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,360
lawyer, You're not, you're not
an investment banker, you know,

864
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,000
like, what are you even doing
with yourself?

865
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,080
You know, And I think that's,
that's heartbreaking because the

866
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,160
teachers are responsible for,
for the future of critical

867
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,720
thinking.
This was people don't understand

868
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,200
that the teacher is responsible
for your children.

869
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,560
Yeah.
They will dumb down your

870
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,240
children.
They will never achieve

871
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,480
anything.
Yes.

872
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,400
Like when I lived in Switzerland
for a while, I did research at

873
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:51,120
the Swiss Polytechnic and the
teachers were the number one in

874
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:56,440
the social status because
everybody understood that they

875
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,400
are responsible for your
children.

876
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,560
It's interesting when you look
for a care daycare to put your

877
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:12,080
baby in, you check for the best
daycare, the best person that is

878
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,960
there to take care of your
child.

879
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,040
But once the child goes into
school.

880
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,440
Forget about.
It.

881
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,320
I don't know what it is, but I I
think, but I I believe that

882
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,680
maybe I.
Was never respected.

883
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:35,320
In the US it's your bank account
is the number one and education

884
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,320
is where.
In Europe education is the

885
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,360
number one.
In Switzerland you can be a

886
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,320
multi billionaire.
If you don't have education, you

887
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,760
will never reach the high
society.

888
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,040
Because So what?
Yeah.

889
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,200
I was going to ask what
cultures, what other cultures

890
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,440
have you experienced or
countries?

891
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,600
Do they, do they value teachers
or do they, or is that something

892
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,840
that's considered prestigious?
Do you what have you?

893
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:01,040
Have you visited places like
that?

894
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:07,720
Some European countries, even in
Israel, is the problem used to

895
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,000
be valuable.
They're trying to change it.

896
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:17,120
And even the Weitzman Institute
has a lot of program for

897
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:25,200
teachers to try to give them the
the tools they need to teach.

898
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:32,680
But somehow people forget that
the teacher is probably one of

899
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:37,960
the most important profession we
have because they are

900
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,240
responsible for the brain of
your child.

901
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:46,080
Yeah, I think that and, and
perhaps one of the reasons is

902
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,320
because, and I've noticed, I, I
noticed this about the Western

903
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,480
culture in general.
It's very focused on today and

904
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,000
very, it has very short memory
and does not look very far into

905
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,200
the future.
All you worry about is right

906
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,240
now, you know, You don't think
about the past.

907
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,280
You don't think.
About the future many tests

908
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,320
children don't need so many
tests they need to.

909
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,920
Learn how.
To be tested all the time.

910
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,840
Yes.
This is why I develop the way I

911
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,000
develop.
I talk to my students.

912
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,080
I want you to have to waste your
time and sit down and write

913
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:21,359
this.
Yes, yes, yes.

914
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,880
Yes, I know you show me your
knowledge anywhere you want.

915
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,720
You don't have to wait on this
test.

916
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:33,319
The number of tests are
unbelievable and the teacher has

917
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:39,040
to teach to the test because if
the student don't do well on the

918
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:43,439
test, the teacher is not good.
So the teacher teaches to the

919
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,760
test and not knowledge and this
is crazy.

920
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Crazy.
I'm AI teach high school.

921
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,600
I teach high school English part
time and one and one thing that

922
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,920
I have to catch myself doing is
a student.

923
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,840
If I, if I have an assignment
and a student will ask me to do

924
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:05,120
something a certain way, for
some reason, my immediate

925
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,319
response is usually to try to
say no.

926
01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:09,600
And I have to stop and think,
why am I saying no?

927
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,000
Is the kid trying to express the
knowledge that he knows in his

928
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,080
own way?
And I'm saying no because it's

929
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,120
not what I wanted?
Or is the kid just trying to be

930
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:18,560
lazy and get out of doing the
assignment?

931
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,880
You know, and, but I think that
you need to be on your toes.

932
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,600
And I think that, you know, I
think that a lot of teachers,

933
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,920
and again, also, if it's not
prestigious, who's going to want

934
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:30,960
to do it?
You know, you have to be almost,

935
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,600
you have to practically be a
martyr to be a teacher for a

936
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:35,600
full time.
You know, and you have to be

937
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,880
willing to, to give up on, on a
comfortable salary.

938
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,319
You have to be willing to give
up on social status.

939
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:45,080
You have to be willing to, to
accept the fact that people are

940
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,439
going to pretty much look down
on you.

941
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:48,840
Who wants that?
So you're not going to get the

942
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,760
cream of the crop being teachers
anyway.

943
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,439
At this point, with the way that
this is, that society works,

944
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:59,720
it's I don't know what to do.
100% but but this problem is

945
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:05,200
being discussed already for so
many years and nothing is being

946
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,160
done.
Nothing is being done.

947
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,080
Do you have any ideas?
Oh, I have a lot of ideas.

948
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:19,280
But you know, there was a period
that Chicago had a wonderful CEO

949
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:24,560
for the school, Paul Weathers.
And really Chicago made a huge

950
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:29,560
jump.
And I had millions of dollars in

951
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:35,120
grants to build STEM academies
in the worst high school that

952
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:42,840
was high schools that had drugs
and gangs and the students did

953
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,960
nothing.
And we came with this academies

954
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:50,880
and suddenly it became a high
school of choice for students.

955
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:59,680
And it changed everything.
And and I had money to have

956
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:05,840
workshops for the teachers to
show them how to teach with my

957
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,760
methods of teaching.
It did Miracle We ran works so

958
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,440
for the parents, but especially
parents.

959
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:17,760
Amazing.
That don't know anything in

960
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,040
science, so we show them
different things that they can

961
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:25,400
help their children.
So when you do all that.

962
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,360
I'm writing that down to
implement by the way, I want to

963
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:32,800
do that.
We made a huge change, but then

964
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,920
came in your CEO.
Forget about it.

965
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,320
Forget about it.
And this is the problem.

966
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,760
This is the problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

967
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,360
So it.
Did miracles, miracles.

968
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:51,680
There was a high school that the
number of students was so small,

969
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:56,240
only few hundreds, because it
has such a big reputation.

970
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:00,560
This is where we built our
Academy and you can't believe

971
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,720
it, a school that suddenly you
had to select the students to

972
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,880
come in.
Yeah, wow, Wow.

973
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,000
And then you know what happens?
It gets built up and then

974
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,440
someone new comes in or it gets
all this, you know, you get a

975
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:16,640
whole new bunch of staff that at
the top and then they change it

976
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,160
all up.
This is the problem with

977
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,440
education.
Wow, wow.

978
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,600
You give me a lot to think about
especially.

979
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,120
Yeah, because I care very much
about I I really do.

980
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,800
And you know, I always say if I
was able to make if I was able

981
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:31,800
to really make a living and I
could support my family

982
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,120
teaching, I would teach 20 hours
a day.

983
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:35,600
You know, I mean, I really
would.

984
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,160
I I love it.
I think it's one of the most

985
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:38,520
important things in the entire
world.

986
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:45,960
And you know, I, I and I just
tried and I and I and I love

987
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,600
every minute that I have an
opportunity to really pursue it.

988
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:53,480
But it's, you know, it's I
really, it's very important to

989
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:55,880
me and it breaks my heart that
it's not, it's not more heavily

990
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:57,280
emphasized.
It really does.

991
01:12:58,320 --> 01:12:59,960
Yeah.
Yeah.

992
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:01,520
So how long did it take you to
write your memoir?

993
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:10,640
Oh it took too long because my
husband got cancer when I was

994
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:16,920
writing it and it slows things
down at the end.

995
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:22,720
The book is dedicated to him and
I added one chapter about him

996
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:29,080
because he used to call himself
AP Accompanying person because

997
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,960
he used to make fun.
This goes to what you mother

998
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,440
told you when you talk to her
about being a woman, a

999
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:41,720
scientist.
He used to come with me to he's

1000
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:46,040
economist, but was he passed
away from the cancer.

1001
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:53,000
But he used to come with me and
to conferences all over the

1002
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:57,960
world and people would show them
him the reaction and he would

1003
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:02,240
say I'm not the chemist, she's
the chemist, not matter.

1004
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,840
They must continue to talk to
him.

1005
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:12,320
It used to be hilarious and
don't understand the word.

1006
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:17,320
She is the chemist.
Dr. Yeah, it's so funny.

1007
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:23,080
Chapter titled The accompanying
member.

1008
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,040
That's really beautiful.
That's really beautiful.

1009
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:30,000
But yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Amazing, amazing.

1010
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,560
It's really incredible.
So when's the Oh yes, I can't

1011
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:35,640
even ask you when the next one
is.

1012
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:38,880
I don't want to talk about the
next one, but what's, what gives

1013
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,320
you some hope for the future?
What gives you some?

1014
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,000
You know, I love that question
and I've heard a lot of times, I

1015
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,240
hear it asked a lot and I don't
think it's, I don't think it's

1016
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:48,960
really authentically asked
enough.

1017
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,560
What do you like?
What do you really think that

1018
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:57,920
What are you hopeful about?
I'm hopeful that more people

1019
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:04,120
with all these podcasts in the
book will understand that

1020
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:08,800
everybody can contribute to make
the planet a better place.

1021
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:17,320
It's not beyond every person.
If I could do it, everybody

1022
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:24,680
could do it, and my book is
practically calling for action.

1023
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:31,440
I used to tell my students
always before you go to sleep,

1024
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:37,160
think if you did something good
for somebody else and if you did

1025
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:40,640
something good for somebody
else, you had a very good day.

1026
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:48,320
And I always got my students
involved with me in things that

1027
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:53,440
I could involve them, like arms
control and disarmament, the

1028
01:15:53,600 --> 01:16:00,320
human rights, because I wanted
them to be part of all these

1029
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:05,520
issues.
And I've my hope is, you know,

1030
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,320
Nature magazine is the best
thing.

1031
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:13,280
They are the best scientific
magazine in the world.

1032
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:19,600
It's in England and they did a
review on my book, but then they

1033
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:30,120
had they published a few a
paragraph from articles that

1034
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:35,000
they want to emphasize.
And in the middle of this

1035
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,640
newsletter, they have Quote of
the Day.

1036
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,720
So one day, the quote of the day
was for my book.

1037
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,720
And they picked up the quote
that I said, you know, in order

1038
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,760
to have an atom bomb, you need
to have enough critical mass of

1039
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,000
uranium to start the chain
reaction.

1040
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:02,560
So I used this sentence and I
wrote in my book that my hope is

1041
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:07,440
to have a critical math of
scientists that will start a

1042
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:13,320
chain reaction for peace, and
they pick this up as the quarter

1043
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,800
of the day and then advertise my
book after that.

1044
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,880
It was a free, wonderful
advertisement.

1045
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:29,840
And so I still hope that I will
still see many people that

1046
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:34,240
decide to join to make the world
a better place.

1047
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,120
I hope so too.
Well, I, I, I, I know that I'm

1048
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,360
going to do after, especially
after talking to you, I'm going

1049
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,520
to do my best to try to continue
pushing your book and continue

1050
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:48,680
pushing these ideas because I
think that it's such a wonderful

1051
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,280
and, and so unique.
I don't think I've ever, I've

1052
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,120
never heard of anything like
your story.

1053
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:57,760
And I think that it's, it's so
magnificent And, and just here,

1054
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,480
you know, hearing you talk
reminds me of just a different

1055
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:05,480
world that I hope that that I
hope reminds people of what the

1056
01:18:05,480 --> 01:18:08,280
world could be like, you know,
of what the world could be, you

1057
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:10,240
know, like what tomorrow could
be.

1058
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,840
And I think that it's really,
really special.

1059
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:15,400
I really, really appreciate
everything that you've done.

1060
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,960
And I I really appreciate your
time.

1061
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,880
Thank you for so much for
connecting.

1062
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:22,840
I really, you know, I hope to be
in touch.

1063
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:24,840
And when you're in Florida next,
please let me know.

1064
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,680
And we're gonna and and and this
and this is you.

1065
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:33,720
You're living and have lived and
are continuing to live a truly

1066
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:35,600
beautiful and very, very special
life.

1067
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,560
And it really, it's it's amazing
able to talk to you.

1068
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,960
Thank you.
Thank you very much.

1069
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:42,040
This is such a pleasure.
We're going to be in touch.

1070
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:43,600
Take Care now.
Bye bye, Doctor.

1071
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:43,960
Bye.