#123: Adam Friedman / Breathwork / Photography / Simulation and Reality

0:01 Welcome to another episode of Come Together Stout but I. Normal. I got, I actually get, I get relief from hanging out with people in a casual way. So I had people over last night to watch UFC. Oh nice. It's just like it evaporated it. It's crazy, like hanging out with 10 people made my stress go away. I almost had a breakdown before I came here. Yeah, and I almost cancelled. Not because of you, just because I had like crazy stress. What's on your mind?

0:43 Everything life, you know, like stuff in particular, but I don't really. It's not that I don't want to share. I just, I don't want to open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, there's no way. I'm like, I know this is going to be so much fun. I already started. Oh, you started. Oh, OK, so let's start. I'm sorry, but no, no worry. But yeah. Oh, you have like a professional thing? Oh no, it's just a nap. You get it too. Hello and welcome back to Fe to Fry. What is a fry? Come together, come together. Come together. We're back. We're live. We're back. We're live. Cheers, brother. Hi, dude. I'm sorry we're doing this. Yeah, Took a couple of months, but. Yeah, let's do it for sure. We're doing it. So you had a lot of your minds over the weekend, too? Both of us did, Yeah. Where do you what? And you don't want to go into it. But he described the sensations.

1:27 Dread, just dread. Yeah, I was I was having great morning and then just like life ponders and my brain and overthinking the you know, the machine was overworking and and I also started to feel felt feel it in my body actually, you know, like just like heaviness and like can control of my breathing. And I was like, OK, I know I'll just I'm going I'm going to go to FV. It's going to be great. And already just like going on the car, being in the car, starting the car, starting driving. Oh this is going to be so much fun. It changes. It changes everything. Doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think motion helps. I think like when like that's why like whenever I have a ton of my mind, I love to go for a walk and I'll even talk it out to myself. Like I'll even say out loud like all right, man, what's going like?

2:14 What do we have going on over here? Because like this is not like we cannot sit like this for too long, you know, like, do you? I've come to recognize over the years the sensations and for the most part realize what's caught. Like, you know, for example, if I feel like I'm not being creative or I'm not working on something that like is important to me, like writing or music or exercise or whatever, I get, I get down and I feel it. But it's a type of down that's like, it's a, it's almost like its own flavour, its own time of, of like its own, its own flavour of a feeling.

2:55 And I'm like, oh, I know that feeling. That's the feeling of me not being productive. If I sit down now and I write for 20 minutes, I'll probably feel a little better. And I recognize that, you know, and then there are times where it's a different type of feeling and I try to force it and I try to resolve it with another type of action and it doesn't work as well, you know, you know what I'm talking about. Do you, do you find that you have that kind like you come to recognize like different parts of your like when you have ups and downs like where they come from? Yeah, yeah. And I think to to your point also that like being in motion I guess helps or like doing something creative or something like that. I thought about in the past. And I think it's that stress is one thing, but like let's say anxiety if that's what we're talking about or I don't know.

3:39 Yeah, sure. But it's a part of stress can be, I think it's, and I think I told you this already, like we spoke about it maybe the last time we hung. And however you you speak English is is that it's kind of like an alarm system, like anxiety. I read it somewhere, I can't remember where, but it Rea it resonated with me. It's like anxiety is kind of like, Oh, something is not in alignment with you for you, You know, it can be your work, it can be your relationships, right? It can be social, it can be the way you consume stuff, right? Your your relationship with coffee, whatever it is, it can be small things.

4:20 It's things that you're you're uncomfortable with yourself about. Yeah. And sometimes just maybe not thinking about it and doing and being in motion, it's a way to to deal with it. And that can be like putting something under the rug. Oh. You think so? Maybe, Yeah. Like if you have something in your life, let's say you know the company that you work for, right? I'm just making it up right now. Company that you work for is going to is gonna I don't know what's it called, not break a leg, not. Go go out of business. Yeah, thank you, but you got my mind. I got it, yeah. I got you gonna go bankrupt, but you don't want to think about it because you don't want to think about, you know, the.

5:01 On your job and what that means. Everything so just like you're putting it away and you know, you're playing squash. Yeah, you're playing squash. You're going, you're going golfing. So you're making yourself feel good, but also that's not good. Yeah. So, so I think it's it's like about being in alignment and like being able. And the more you're going to not listen to those alarms, those sirens calling right, physical, mental, it's going to get worse. And sometimes it's also going to manifest probably physically, right, because stress when it accumulates, it's it's going to it's going to do something right. It's going to eventually it's going to show you Hey, notice something you. Need to yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I carry it in my.

5:42 I literally feel it like in in between my rib, like where like I guess my lower esophagus, like upper chest, like I feel it tense and I carry it like right above my shoulders by like my lower neck area. And like I, I, I, I come to recognize it kind of like weight or heaviness. You know, when I'm when I'm really stressed and like I haven't realigned, you know, or if it's out of my control to realign at the moment, you know, like, yeah, if you're waiting for a paycheck and you know, you know, it's going to come in a week, but like, it feels like forever and you have bills right now. Like there's not much you can do for a week about it, you know? I mean, you know, so for. Sure. Yeah. But that that's, that's actually a really good example showing that it's something that it's, it's going to be OK, but it still dawns on you, right. Like, or if that makes sense, right, That it's just, it's hard, but and I have to control it. Yeah, right.

6:35 Yeah. By breathing or moving or whatever. Breathing helps a lot too. Yes. Have you been going lately to the? No, you know what? I'm going to say that it's because I'm, I was. I'm going to say on the surface, it's because I feel like I haven't been able to. I'm not ready to go back, but the truth is that I think that I'm not ready to deal with the percussions of what I'm going to find. You know, I know it's going to cause me to make choices and decisions that I've been pushing off and, you know, consider things that I've been like keeping, you know, keeping away for now. Partly because I have so much going on that I feel like I have enough to juggle.

7:16 I have to like, wait for this to all cool down a little bit. And then that's why I was excited to try to trip yesterday because I wanted to kind of take the time, like on a quiet afternoon with no distractions and anything like that. And just, you know, sit with it for for a while. Ended up being so folk. I ended up being too focused on what I'm not experiencing that I ended up missing the whole experience. Yeah, exactly what I could. I could have spent six hours just thinking and enjoying, you know, and I was, I was so focused on is this, is this right? You had expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had expectations. That's that's fine. But yeah, but yeah, so I haven't gone back because of that, but I found that there's two types of breath work that I try to do that I know of, right. The one, the one that we're talking about is the, you know the term, I think, but like where you kind of get yourself into a psychedelic state where like. Holotropic.

8:10 Holotropic. Reading or There's a lot of names, but the the what the name I like is. Called. Yeah, You want to describe it the way it works. Holotropic in in short words, and you know, try to sum it up, it's hyperventilation. You're trying to hyperventilate and. Does hyperventilate get more oxygen to rain or less? More oxygen into the into the body. OK, Access actually, right, That's tingly. On. Your yeah, your extremities, you're exactly, you're depriving your extremities of oxygen and then your cramping. And then some say it's also, it can be not the best for you. But I think really that's an extreme. Really, if you're, if you're intensely doing it and you're doing it a lot, it might cause, I don't know, like newer, like neural stuff, you know, because you're training the body to, to cramp in specific ways, right, by breathing. And that that's not, doesn't sound like it's a healthy thing to do all the time, right?

9:09 But listen, they're worse. I smoke cigarettes so that that's probably worse, but it's, it's great. It's great. I I think I told you the first time I did it, I I just couldn't. Like, I couldn't stop crying. Really. Yeah. Bears Niftak. How do you say that? Yeah, the wells, the wells open the. Wells kind of open. I couldn't stop crying and also I felt my whole body like cramping. But then opening it was it was beautiful. Honestly it was really fun and liberating also. When When was this? Three years ago, that's. Your first time trying it? Yeah. First time trying whole Tropic breathing. A couple years into living here. Yes. And what else were you in your life when you were doing that? Like what was like, what was your, what was the state that you were in at that point?

9:55 Oh, very confused. That was very lost, very confused. But also like, I love it, but also it's amazing. Yeah. We're talking about the the birds. Yeah, for the listeners. This bag they they we have we have keeps flying around Bluebirds Yeah like it's it's amazing back I could just hang out back here and look at birds all day. Nice. Crazy. Yeah, I do. Actually. You have a. Small. I have the small zoo that's actually great. It's really cool. Iguanas, the cats, the birds, the lizards, Squirrels, the lizards, the possums, the possums come back here. Possums are good for you by the. Way I've heard that, but they're scary. They they look scary because they look dead yeah right. And the play dead. But The thing is the nothing venomous or is it venom?

10:38 Yeah, venomous or poisonous? Actually, not nothing, but most things can't hurt them. They're immune, right? And they also, there was one more, there was one more thing that they're they're really good for their environment, like against pests and stuff. They're like they, they're kind of like a dead thing, but they're actually good to living stuff. Yeah, they just freaked me out when I'm hanging out back here at night and, you know, just like walk. They're cute, they're so small. They look like, no, they're not sized rats. They look cute. Yeah. The first time I saw one, I was like, I don't even know what this is. Like I don't even know what I'm supposed to even Google. Like I don't know what it's. I don't even know what I I never see anything like what do I have in my? Backyard What is this? Yeah, I was like, I think it's a possum.

11:18 And I was like, I don't know what that is. Yeah, but that's awesome. So you were confused. Yeah, I was confused. I was, I found, I found yoga and I found psychedelics and breathing and I was on Khazar Abe Chuva, which in English you can kind of say like. You're turning to yourself. Finding maybe or finding God right like this. There's this term. So I had a lot of questions, you know, and sometimes I still do, obviously, because we don't have the the answers. But back then I was looking for answers, you know, in a lot of places and the yoga practice, the movement and the breathing and the philosophy, the scriptures even sure, different stuff. And also and, and mainly movement. But then breath kind of came in very strong and then all Tropic breathing.

12:08 That was the first time that I did that and it was, it was amazing. I felt it was. Amazing to cry, by the way, it feels amazing to cry without the without the walls up, you know, because most of the time when we have our walls up, you know, we're depriving our body of what it really needs. And crying is like an actual like it's a release, you know, like it's a built up. It's a built. Someone told me this and it was so beautiful. All of like the great things in life are build up and then a release moment yes you know, and whether that's emotional, whether that's physical, whether that's even like expectations and mentally, you know even. Bringing a baby to the world, there's contraction and whoop. Whoa, right. Or death, maybe even.

12:48 I don't know if they've experienced that. Yeah. Not that I can remember my own birthright, but but yeah, it's all. Yeah, and including and including this. But it's amazing. But it's cool. It's cool. It's what I love these concepts that are that could be applied across the board, like where it's a, it's a general like statement and like you could look anywhere. You could look in, you know, nature, you could look in. I do too. Yeah. It's, it's so cool, you know, and that's one. Of them it's like truths, right? Sometimes it's just like passwords. But. But I like it, you know, it's like something that resonates and it sounds good, right. So, yeah, I I like it too. I feel you. Yeah, but I haven't, I actually haven't went on a breath workshop in a long, long time or like a class or whatever.

13:32 Or with my own life. I mean, I do breathe obviously involuntary every day, sometimes voluntary. I choose, you know, to take a breath like right now. But you kind of reminded me going to those classes. Yeah, that you, you shared about your experience. And I was like, maybe I should go. And then what I do now sometimes there's a great YouTube video by Wim Hof. It's like in 11 minutes, I know a lot of different techniques, I have a lot of books and but that 11 minutes video on YouTube is just great. I'll. Put the link. I want to put the link in the Yeah you just so people so you can find it. Amazing. That's that's going to heal the world. Just lay down there. He tells you what to say. Wim Hof, Wim Hof, you know, you know about him.

14:14 No, the Iceman. No, I'm not going to go into into it too much because I'm not an expert about him. But he also has a very interesting book. But in general, he's a very special person that was able. He's powering himself via breathing. Like that's his thing. He was able to prove under under tests, under lab tests, right. He was injected with cholera, I think, or with like a specific what not what a type of a disease, Yeah. Rather. Maybe it's that if if I'm not mistaken, Yeah. And with breathing, he was able to to like or.

14:56 Yeah, and it's proven. I'm not sure if it was Colorado, Yeah, but he was Yeah. And then he was always not always. He was also able to teach other ten students and also to lead them through testing. Wow. Yeah. So not only it was replica, not only could he do it, he could replicate. It with other people yes exactly and also to keep his body warm you know in freezing water. His thing is cold water and breathing and taking people, I believe, naked. Yeah, I mean, it's breath in the yoga is. Everything. Breath is everything I try to get my students. Life force. It is life force. I try to get my students actually at the beginning of classes because I totally understand what it's like for them. But like the beginning of class, you know, I have them at 4:00 or 5:00 four between 4:00 to 6:15 late part of the day. They're in school since 8:00 in the morning. They're either bouncing off the walls or out of there exhausted, you know, and and I get them.

15:52 They're they're fatigued, right. So a lot of times I'll put on like this, it's called non sleep, deep rest breathing that Andrew Huberman does. And it's 10 minutes and we don't usually do it all 10 minutes. You just do 3 or 4 minutes just to like get like them, to be just a little like recalibrated is what I'll call it. Because I can sit there and yell at them all I want. I can sit there and threaten to throw them out all I want. But like at the end of the day, they're wired. They're wired. Yeah, exactly. What are you going to do about it? So I'm like, OK, we're all just going to take a couple of minutes and just take deep breaths and just recalibrate ourselves and turn off the light. And we do that and it and the, and the quality of the performance of the class shoots up. I mean, like, it is crazy, you know, and, and all it is is. And anyway, and I was like, if you don't want to do it, please just leave because I don't want anyone to talk. And like, you don't have to do it. I'm not making you do it.

16:42 Take a 5 minute walk because that might be what you need instead of breathing right. You may need to stretch your legs a little bit, you know, and then come back. And the people that stay are like that. You could see they're just like, they're back home again, Like they're back in their heads again. They're so used to just being responsive and jumping around. And, you know, and your high schoolers, I mean, they're filled with everything, you know, You know, And it's so, so. But when my students like, why does this work? And I'm like, well, think about everything. I was like, if you're scared, someone tells you breathe. If you're hurt, someone tells you breathe through the pain. If you're trying to go to sleep, someone tells you, what are you supposed to do? Take you know you're supposed to breathe a certain. Way it's it's really there's this book by Dylan Werner. Dylan Werner is a famous yoga teacher on Instagram. Very famous is he?

17:25 He's the opposite of Instagram influencer. He's a very, very. What's it? Called formal. Not formal, I lost the word, but it's fine. He's very into yoga and a lot of research, OK, but also the scientific side and the neurological side of how breathing effects our body and our brain. And he wrote a book, The Illuminated Breath. OK, great book. And in the book, he, he says he puts in words in a really beautiful way that it's the basically the steering wheel of our nervous system, the central nervous system. Right. So, Paris, are you? Are you familiar with parasympathetic and sympathetic systems? I feel with the terms but not off the top of my head. Rest and digest and fight or flight, OK, right. So fight or flight is stress, right? And stress doesn't have to be negative, right? It's just stress, right?

18:19 Cortisol is it might be to fight someone who's coming to attack me, a grizzly bear, right? Or it can be. I need to OK, I need to to do this thing right now. I need to clean the house in stress because I really want Yeah, it's a good it can. It's useful. Right, it's a good motivator. Yeah, exactly. And rest and digest is, you know, procreation and having doing life and good stuff, you know. So we need both to have a balance and the breath is the steering wheel. But most of the time, no one teaches us how to breathe. Yeah, right. No one tells us. Oh, you can choose to breathe sometimes, like you said. Wait, are you angry? Are you going to cry? Which is OK, but maybe breathe.

19:01 Take 5 breaths. Are you are you getting angry? Right. Try to control your nervous system. Try. In Hebrew, there's a saying. I'm going back to, to passwords because truths. I, I yeah, yeah. Isn't. That strong, he's the person that could conquer his emotions, desires. Yes. His desires is is instincts, Not instincts, desires, desires. OK, sure, maybe. Yeah. Person. Yeah. Or yeah, I would say. Desires. Sure. We'll call that. Yeah, maybe there's a better word, but I think that's a good way to put it, you know, because and that those desires can be maybe to get angry with something or to get sad or something, or to get extremely happy. I don't think we should be monks, but sometimes they take over us, right?

19:43 And then, I mean, I can say for myself, sometimes I feel like I have in the past, right? It's something's taking over me. And I'm like those kids in school, you know, they're they're not able to wait. Maybe this is good for me to learn right now or maybe to listen and doing this. So that book is also really great. You can also put it. I'm going to put the link on. Yeah, Jeremiah after that is to keep track. So we have that, we have that book, and we have the. Wim Hof, I'm not sure what's the name of his book I forgot. We'll find it. We'll be pretty easy to find. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome in yoga. And you and you and you looked and you looked into yoga. I don't know anything about yoga. I did 2 yoga teacher teacher trainings so I'm certified twice. What's that? What's that entail?

20:25 Is that like? The truth is, well, if you want to go into it, I'm. Curious. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, there, there. I'll tell you what came up right down to my mind. So it's actually the the Western world kind of took over yoga with capitalism in a bad way, but also in a good way that it brings this beautiful practice to a lot of more people, right? Most people think of yoga as this movement thing, right? It's just, oh, it's a workout, but it's not. But listen, I if like if you think that yoga is just a workout, but it brings joy and happiness and relaxation to your life, I'm happy for you.

21:07 More, more, more power to you. Yeah, right. But I live. I like to to try to research more stuff be. So you know. Where the very self critical say. Again, you know it, started Bikram. Yeah, Bikram, Bikram. Bikram. Have you seen the the documentary? No, it's a very bad, good, bad documentary. Bikram was is an India guy that brought he's kind of stole or was inspired by some Ashtanga and some different practices and then made this thing Bikram yoga very hot closed doors and very military like 1-2 poses 3-4 and it kind of it became a cult.

21:50 There's a whole documentary about it. He's now he doesn't live in the United States anymore. He made a lot of money and also harassed people and touched people and whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not good like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But he, he really brought yoga to the West, like big time. Yeah. You really helped it. So yoga. I don't teach yoga anymore. I did teach in a couple of. Spanios but you think. Very, very. To teach yoga. Yeah. Wait, what? Was the certification like so you had to take classes? On that I did, I did the first course I did online, which was meh, you know, I just did because I wanted to Yeah. Like an in person experience would always be better for you. Like you want to experience stuff, right? Yeah, online is really just for the certificate and to I want to say for the. Yeah, for your own faith, your own not knowledge or. Not or like I can do this confidence, confidence. Thank you.

22:45 This is an interesting episode. It's in a Hebrewish. It's great. I love. It because a lot of these ideas, by the way, what I love about like using particular words, especially in Hebrew, is that Hebrew is a language where context makes all the difference. And so like you can have two words for the same thing, but they're done in totally different ways. You know that. And so like it's about the amount of intention that you what kind of attention you're putting behind the action. And it could change the entire word like bita kon is a confidence, like in a, in a particular way. But there's other words for like faith and there's other words for like, you know, similar concepts, but just in different, like different applications of that idea, you know?

23:26 So it's fun to like use particular words to understand like why, why you're using that, you know, and for your own comp. Yeah. So it's cool to I, I think it's great to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably. I like it too though. We have, we can, we can do that. We can do the 2 languages. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. So so gave you. So gave you. And then the 2nd and the second part. The second certification was in person. Yeah, I did that in Mexico. I'm also as a photographer, I went to take photos for them, so I was able to also get paid to do photography and and to indulge in the teacher training, which was great. It was so relaxing. It was a. Was it corporate kind of thing or not really? Do you do corporate kind of things? What? Like what do you mean? Like what company?

24:06 Like how you place? Corporate events, photography, some not, not even. I have the full time job so sometimes I have like gigs on the side, but it's not that often. Yeah, do. You like them? The the side. Drunk gigs, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have a lot of like couple couple for like engagements, yeah, yeah, or maternity and stuff like that, whether it's friends or or I have a friend that she's a producer. So I work, you know, she has clients and I work Cool. OK. So that's always fun because it's always, it's around like such happy events, you know, like proposal, dude, every time I go to shoot a proposal, there's like crazy excitement, you know, like the setup of the whole. Then people come to set up the the thing and then they come and you can take your like your cheeks hurt, you know, because you see them and it's like a main core event in their life. Like he's proposing to her.

25:01 Whatever. Right. And and just so happy every time I go, like my yeah, my cheeks hurt. It's so much fun. Yeah. And, and weddings and stuff like that. It's just, it's only, yeah, it's a boost, of course, of course. But on the other hand also the after, you know, in photography you also, you edit after. And sometimes that that can be delightful because it's like wow, art, you know, beautiful photos and, and editing and filtering. But sometimes it can be also just like work. When so my wife and I for our wedding photographer. I didn't really care at the time, although I still don't. I didn't super, super care, but you could see with different photographers that they have different styles and like recurring, like you can look at 10 weddings that they shot and like you can kind of see it like almost like a language, you know, like the same type of style. That's like throughout the whole thing, you know, and I got you get to invite like so you know, do you is that does that? Like for example, I'm trying, I'm trying to find the best way to ask this when I play, when I'm now, when I'm practicing guitar, then I'm trying to be creative on it. I'll practice something new and I'll find myself getting stuck in that like doing that same kind of riff, right? Like that same kind of motion or style. And so on one hand it's cool and it's my own thing. On the other hand, it almost gets like autumn, like it becomes default.

26:31 It becomes like thoughtless, you know? You know, I'm saying like, it's not, it's not intentional. It's just like, oh, there's now a new riff that I like, a new style, kind of a riff that I'm going to do. Billy Strings is talking about how that's why he still has like music teachers because he's like, I find myself especially I'm doing shows that I kind of do similar thing and I kind of get stuck. In and he's trying to breakthrough those. Yeah, he's trying to breakthrough. That can break new creative. Grounds. So how do you connect that to what you were saying? Because with the photography. Not in photography to to like your own sound. So you're saying you're trying to breakthrough Yes to make. Something new, I get stuck, I get stuck in, I'll find something new, I'll it'll be cool. I'm not get to make a habit out of it, right? And even though it's cool and it's my own unique thing, I'm not growing, you know, like I'm not like I'm not growing.

27:15 I'm not getting to the next level. You know, I think you're talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, from what I'm understanding, sounds like you're talking about two separate things that you know that can correlate, but it's like 1 having your own sound or your own eye, your own language. For the style and. Art even talking right and then trying to develop that thing. So you're talking about those two? Yes, that's what I yeah, yeah, but. Yeah, I understand. You right, right. So what I'm asking would be, do you think that photographers, when they have like a style, is it because they're stuck like in like a habit that's like, you know, that's something they got started with and it's familiar? Or do you think it's just the style and that's just the way they express themselves and these nuances within it? That's an interesting question.

28:01 I think. So I'm trying to generalize, you know, like a person spins into an an art form. Let's talk about photography, right? OK, so you lift the camera, you look into the viewfinder and like the way you're seeing so much stuff and then you're going to freeze that thing. So are you going to zoom in? Are you looking deep into details? And your thing is macro? Like are you trying to show shapes or are you trying to show like a big thing, like very wide maybe, or you're trying to show animals. What, what? And all those things, all those questions. It's it's personal preference, right? So a person would go, go and capture and do I, I want to believe what they love, you know, what they like. Usually it's like that.

28:52 Some people create for for other people, right? Some people create for maybe the consumer, the viewer sometimes, which is also okay. But I can tell that my own experience, like I started and friend love with photography because wow, I had so much fun to capture different stuff. And I think that you can definitely get stuck, you know, and not and think maybe it's a thing of self improvement. Maybe, you know, like you think, Oh, this is great and you're just this is, you know, my, my photos are great. Look at my photos, my photos or you're enjoying to look at your photos and you're satisfied. I, I can tell you that I'm very self critical. And so I'm, I'm, it's very hard for me to satisfy myself with my creations a lot of times.

29:39 So I'm like, this can be better. I can frame this better, the lighting can be better. Oh, I this it's a sometimes it's sickness, sometimes it's a gift, right. I think all of us have it to different extents. Yeah. And and I think that that's where it correlates what you said earlier, right. The improvement and the and the language. So also when Billy Billy strings talks about what his guitar like he already has. And the more you go into that, you know, trying to, to be better and being self critical, I think that you're developing your own because it, it's always going to be your language, right? Because it's always you expressing. And it's your own criticism to your own language, too. Yeah, it can be inspired, right, by, let's say, Billy, by Doc Watson, right, or John May or by Billy King or by whatever.

30:27 So it it can always be inspired, but it's always you that's going to do it. And your question was actually if I think it like if you can get stuck. Yeah, some people get stuck and you know, oh, this is great. And they don't try to develop. So you've seen your development in photography over the years. Like you've seen, like if you look back at like the way I think of it is like, I look back at all poems, old poems I used to write, you know, from five years ago or even a year ago, six months ago. And I don't even recognize who wrote this, you know? Like, do you feel that way about your picture, about your photography that like you look back and you'll be like, I did that? Like, you know, like that's not like that, you know? No, no, I, I, it's not, it's not like that. It's like who did that? But definitely I can see difference, you know, like that's a very amateur, amateur photography at first, you know, like I see what I was trying to get, but it wasn't refined.

31:16 There are some. So maybe in every art form there are rules, right? There are basic rules like in photography the rule thirds right how to frame stuff. Or what's that? The rule so you have a rectangle. For example I'm showing Fe my phone screen black front screen. So if you put 2 lines. Split up. Into thirds, Yeah, 2 lines into thirds and then across horizontally and vertically, right? And then you have 4 dots in the center where they connect. So that's a rule for. So with that rule thirds, you can do a lot of different things with framing. You can play something here that would be interesting. Maybe the eye of the person. Then there's clear opening over here.

31:58 Or maybe you can just have I, I, I kind of got, I need to show you like, yeah, yeah, like more stuff so it will be more clear. Visual. That's a. That's a good explanation. Though Yeah, so so then and. The and the and the point is that there's general points where people look in the picture that you're trying to capture their the point eye. So yes, that, yeah. So the point is there are rules in different art forms, right? And yeah, for the rule Fords, it can be that exactly that is going to attract a person's eye. Yeah, eye, but then you want to learn those so you can break them, right. There's everybody says that, but and I think I think it's true because if you if you don't even learn the rules, never I think very special stuff can be created, very beautiful stuff and think, you know, like I never learned that you need, you know, to use the rule thirds and then you have a very special perspective, which is amazing. And that's even like more artsy maybe. Yeah.

32:58 And it's great. But if you learn then I I don't know, actually, I don't know. I was trying like I was going down in in the thought chain of like what's better? But I don't think there's that's bet there's better or not. It's just. It's whatever speaks to whoever, but there could be. Yeah. But I understand the concept of you finding your way within the in order to be able to be good at something. There's almost like a basic structure. And then you can choose to play with those rules or not. But like you have to understand the way that it works to begin with. Like, you have to be able to. Yeah, I, I think so. I'm saying make sense. Yeah. In order to be able to break the rules of guitar, you have to know the rules of guitar.

33:39 Like you have to know like how to play the game in order to break the rules. Not not really that. I mean, you don't think so? No, because if you give like a 10 year old a guitar and you just tell him play, you know it's. Not going to sound very good though. Maybe maybe they they might be able to teach themselves to listen right and then they have no. Idea of rules. They have no idea of rules, right? And they just make sounds that can sound good. Great, that work. Yeah, that can happen. That's what I'm saying, you know, and I'm that's. How Blues happened, I guess right And jazz, all that stuff. Blues is technically like, musically wrong. But it has rules. But it has. Rules. It has rules, the 1st, the 4th and the 5th, Yeah. And it has like a way of how you play it and, you know, the turn or the turnover.

34:26 And it's like, so I don't know. It's interesting though, but it's it, it's also interesting to think about that because with photography, I mean, now I do it, you know, to, to bring income and money. And sometimes I also do it for fun for myself. I want to say, I want to say I kind of peaked in photography, if that makes sense. I mean, just because I choose to, right? It's like I, I, I don't, I don't do it for fun as much, right? Because of I, you know, it became a profession and then, OK, I'm, I'm doing it for money and this and that. And sometimes I still do it for fun. And that's what, that's where I went and where I enjoy and I learned some more stuff, but I'm not, I'm not so interested in learning so much more about photography anymore.

35:14 I still do it for fun, but that's where I'm, I'm, I'm good, you know, I'm just having fun with it. And I'm not, I'm not trying to be any more professional anymore. Artsy, OK. But I, I do, I I do try that with music now, you know, with writing songs and with getting better at the guitar and even performing, you know, we go to the open mic together. Yeah, and that's really fun. That's really fun. What you, you know, it's cool. It's, I don't know if you realize this or you appreciate this to the same extent, but very few people I think get to like, they're get to get paid to do what they love like that, you know, like to be a photographer.

35:56 And so you had a passion that turned into work and then they turned into work. Are you happy that you like that? Like what do you, what do you feel about this? Just do it again? What do you think about this? I've heard that so many times, so many people. Every time I told them, well, I'm a photographer or I like to do for them, then that's what I do. And so everybody is not everybody, but that's how it's in my mind, you know, like, wow, that's so good for you. And so and and the question. Is. What do you think it's? True. And it's not my experience and I think, I think it might be, I think it might be sometimes because I, I, I couldn't be grateful for that, to be honest, right? Like. I think it's hard to, I think it's hard to be grateful every single day from 9:00 to 5:00 to take it and not take it for granted at a certain point. Right, yes, that that's one.

36:41 But also, maybe there were sometimes that it's not exactly the route that I wanted to go, but I also never really paved a route for me to go, you know, so. So at the end of the day, I'm just, yeah, Now if you ask me, I'm happy. I'm happy where I am. I'm happy. And we, we, we. So would you recommend to people to have their passion be there nine to five job like mixed passion with responsibility I guess is the way you can put it if. Ask it again. Do you think that mixing the passion and the fun with a professional environment, like you have to like get like work done and like get a number of things done and like blend them together, is that I don't?

37:31 Think, I don't think I'm actually a good example of that, to be honest, because as I said, like now, photography is, is a means to an end for me. OK, I still do it for fun, but it's a means to an end. It's not like, it's not like no, it's a means to like to, to pay rent. You know, photography, it's I do it to to pay rent where my passion is actually music right now. So I have, you know, some dreams and ideas about maybe, you know, maybe even making money from music, right. So if I'll be able, you know, and I have some planning and some stuff that, you know, I'm thinking about that if I will pay for road and I'll be there when, OK, maybe have a gig, you know, at a bar or somewhere, maybe even tour at one point, you know, then, then maybe you can ask me that question again and I can tell you, but I don't know, you know, I don't know.

38:23 But I, I, I am thinking a lot about that. There's we only have one life and we only have one opportunity. And we kind of, it's sometimes I look at it like black or white, right? And it's like we should do, I should do what I love. I'm very extreme sometimes and sometimes I'm very stubborn and like thinking that way. But but, but there is a great, you know, there is, there is an in between and it doesn't have to be an extreme. So now I'm I'm a happy camper. You know, it's not always good and I'm stressed and sometimes life gets, you know, over. With that is life, though, exactly I I've kind of come to terms with it.

39:06 I've come to terms with the fact that, like in order for my life to be great, there has to be times that are hard and in order for you know, like I think that's just what I think that's what it is. I think that you don't you take it for granted at a certain point. I think I really I think that's human nature. I think the human nature is that if something we're very quick to adapt to familiarity, you know, and so in something was familiar, it's very easy to take to take it for granted and to lose your appreciation for it, you know, And like it was actually interesting because I for I probably had a three or four year period where all I listen to is Springsteen. I was a huge Springsteen nut and it really meant like the world's because he really the way that he wrote and played and performed all I got would only listen to his live shows.

39:49 Like the way that he performed. Like you felt the humanity and the emotion and the struggle and the joy and the loss and the pain and everything like dialed up to 11. Like you like you felt it through the microphone, through the you felt the the crowd. You can feel the crowds tension, you know, in the in the recordings. It's incredible, right? Like it's really, really amazing. And you're if you're driving along and you listen to, you go listen to half an hour or the full 3 hour thing and like. Go for the whole ride, like like, and you don't have to be there like it's, it's so it's so potent that it carries over into, into a, into a recording, which is really, really cool and really, really rare.

40:31 But I was wondering, I was thinking to myself, like this guy at a certain point, I realized like he's doing this four days a week, 2 sets a night, you know, how does he keep up like that? And he's doing the same set, you know, like, don't you think like the lyrics start to lose like, you know, like, do you think like, don't you think the lyrics are to lose me? Like I know, but. Well, as Bruce Springsteen, yeah. Tell you that yes, no, no. But I, I, I it's. I've seen, I've seen that interview, I've seen that interview, I think. That it's something that like, so I'm used to listen to 1 recording and I'm like, wow, that's so amazing. But like, was it like, you know, like do you? I, I don't like.

41:14 Why, why? Why do? Why do you do? You think you can. Why? Why that level of enthusiasm for that long? I don't know, but why? Why? Why do you question it that that's interesting? I question it because when I practice anything, yeah, and I practice the same thing for a really long time, I get sick of it. And if I'm making no money and going to a different towns three nights a week and playing two sets in the same song and telling the same story twice a night. And by the way, maybe I am hooked to the telling the story and watch and feeling the interacting with the audience. You know, like Jerry Garcia used to say that the audience was a bigger part of the show than the band is.

41:56 The band can be incredible. If the audience doesn't respond, it doesn't mean anything. Maybe, maybe it's this. I'm going to be like a poetic, you know, It's like it's love is not is not enough and anything. It's also once you you understand you have love for something, it's it's so much work and devotion, right? And you have to find more develop the meaning develops and changes and grows, right. And a lot of artists would say, you know, it's for the song, it's for the words and then it's for myself. And that's for my wife and that's for the audience. And that's for God, right, Whatever it is for, for each their own. And it's very interesting. It's very interesting. So I'm I'm saying it like I know it, but I don't know. But sometimes it feels like it would would movement for me sometimes doing like workouts, mobility, anything that I move my body.

42:45 It's the to feel better to take care of my mental health physically, to take care of myself. So I'm as as I get older, but also because I love it and I'm I'm willing to work at it, but it's also this. It means something new this. Warrior. Warrior mentality. You know that, Kobe. Kobe. Like if you know, like everybody knows Kobe and his thing was he loves it. So his his way of loving it was, oh, I'm going to work the hardest. You think he didn't, you know, got over it a certain point. Like it's who wants to wake up at those hours to work out and then to train and then to play and then to win and then never try to lose.

43:26 And when you lose, you probably feel the worst right to be. And that's like a warrior mentality. And that's, that's kind of like trying to be a warrior for love, you know, if we're trying to be poetic. So I, I your questions. Yeah. I I I hear you. That's a really interesting. That's a really interesting thing, thought. Yeah. Even just the notion, because I guess as you're saying that the thought that came to my mind is to feel out is praying, you know, like it's the same, it's the same, it's the same prayer. And I say 3 freaking times a day for 30 years, you know, and, and it means something different. Like it means something different to me every single time that not every single every time I pay attention to it, it means something different to me. I can say that right. Every single time that I try to apply and translate in my head the words to the context of what my life is, I'm like, whoa, like it means something totally different now than it meant a month ago, you know? And like, I guess on a day-to-day basis, the meanings change because you're changing.

44:23 Yes. So I guess it's a great answer. But you're also you're you're, you're sticking to it. And that's that's the. And you're sticking to it too. That's the hardest thing to stick to something right in the in the bad and in the good right and all of it. That's what people are very having a hard time with. I feel. I feel like nowadays, or maybe it's just me, I don't know, but with with with work, I have a lot of friends, you know, they change work constantly. Relationships, you know, marriages are very hard. You know, have been with the same person. Just like sticking with something, whether sometimes it's for. I think if it's from love for love, it would be the best. It sounds so cliche, but that probably would be the the best thing to try and do right.

45:11 And and that doesn't sorry. And that doesn't mean that it's all butterflies and giggly and fun and cozy. It just means that like, let's take Kobe's love for basketball for the game, right? Or messy love. It's not easy. There's there's sweat, right? And. There's losses and there's buzzer beater misses and there's everything and then and then there's a buzzer beater scores, you know, and then there's the chance. Stress, insane stress, you know, like fighting, fighting for, for that thing, you know, so. That's great, by the way. It's great that you're telling me this because again, you know, we just, we're just saying right before I started recording, but I think you started I'm feeling burnout. You know, I've been feeling burnout and, and the thing that gets me through the burnout is like I know I'm burnt out for now.

46:02 Like I know that like everything I'm doing are things I want to be doing, you know, And so like, I just need to recharge my batteries, but like it's there like in the back of my head and it's like I'm so tired, but it's not, I'm not happy to be doing this. It's, I'm just tired, you know, like it's just. I feel you and I want to be so supportive, but under the under, but under the shade of Kobe because we brought him under the shade. I feel like did Kobe ever take took time off? No, no, no. I think I think we should need to. I think, you know, I'm completely joking and I don't think yes, I mean, dude, I, I sometimes burn out and I just lay in bed, you know, like I have to. The way I've been thinking about it was like, really, I have, let's say, legitimately like 8 to 10 really important things that that to me that are really, really important that I invested on a day-to-day on a daily basis, right? Like guitar playing my family learning you're doing a. Lot.

47:06 You know, I'm doing so teaching. My tales I told, Daf I told. I don't know how he juggles all that. Dude, the best. I. Don't two kids. You have a baby at home, you have religion, you have work, you have two, two jobs. Yeah, and the podcast 2 Jobs in the. Podcast and you're doing. And jiu jitsu and, and I'm and I'm trying to play and I'm trying to get better guitar and. That's awesome. And. But that's awesome. That's inspiring. Also, to be honest, like, you know, it's really easy to to kind of just get stuck, you know, not trying to develop in something and get stuck and like, oh, I have enough on my plate or I'm good or whatever. But no, there is more to life, more to experience and more to to try to, to to get after, you know, it's yeah, sometimes it feel it's a burner ride, like I don't wanna chase so much I can just rest and that's OK and take a. You think it's a bad thing that it comes from a place of fear though 'cause it it comes from a fear of not fulfilling my potential and wasting my time and not doing everything. I want wow, that's I don't know if I can answer that No for real, I don't know but.

48:05 What do you think? What's your reflux without any clinical advice? Well, we'll say that this is. Clinical like this is not therapy sessions with us. What are you thinking? Who am I? I'm laughing by myself. Yeah, yeah, I'm joking by myself from fear, like if a doing it like every like. I am like what drive? What propels me is like, I don't want to check out before. Like if I checked out now. I think that's. A good thing. I think that's a good thing if it's driving you like it's going to take a toll, I guess, you know, to everybody, right? Yeah, the stress and all that, but I think that's a good thing.

48:46 You only we only get fucking one shot. You only get one shot, right? Get one shot. I feel like I'm not feel like my stress tolerance is actually like pretty low. I feel I'm very, you know, gentle and like I get overwhelmed very easily. So honestly, I think that's good to be able to stretch your like to, to, to stretch your limits and be able to tolerate more stress and then to be able to get after more because it's, it's about expansion, right? Be able to hold more, right? And love life doesn't get easier, right? The, the, the more you grow up and you get older, get older more, more, yeah. More responsibility. Heavier, yeah, but yes, yeah. And. Responsibility is weight. Responsibility is weight.

49:27 It's the weight of you, of you choosing to take the burden of people or things and people that you love around you. But that's weight. That's still weight, you know, and like muscles that you grow as as time goes on, you know, but at a certain point you need to give yourself recovery time, otherwise your muscles won't, you know, won't be growing, you know? But the only thing that I was thinking that could potentially be the downside and maybe, and I haven't figured this out, is I feel like every motivating factor could have like a negative side and a positive aspect too, right? So for example, like am I, am I teaching because I love teaching or my teaching because I think other teachers are bad teachers. And like those are two very, very different motivating factors that could lead to very, very different responses, right? They might get to the same place and I might think and like they. Could also live together.

50:20 They could live together, right? But I would imagine that my love for teaching would When something's coming from a more positive place, I think it has a lot more life and enthusiasm to it. And when something's coming from a little more negative place, you might be more effective, but you don't get that joy the same time while you're doing it, you know? So it's been what's been, I guess, you know, kind of like eating at me a little bit is that I feel like I'm doing all these things, but I'm not enjoying them. I'm getting them done because I want to get them done, not because like, I'm having fun. Doing, I think that's good. I think that's OK.

51:00 You know, like, yeah, sometimes you have the initial idea or thought of, hey, I love it. It's what we kind of talked about, right? And then the love maybe goes away and you're becoming Sisyphus. You. Just and it comes back and it comes back to. Push the, the, the, the rock up the hill every day, right? And it's just OK. I don't feel love right now to teach those kids like I'm tired. I have a lot of stuff on my head at home, at work, whatever, and I need to teach them how to breathe and then how to. I can breathe myself. I'm sure about it. Right? Yeah. Sometimes it's just to do the thing, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to figure I got to, I got to find that balance. It'll be good.

51:45 Yeah. We'll work on it, man. It's all. It's all. I'm constantly trying to. It's it's so much fun. It's such a, it's such a trip. It's such a trip. But yeah, what do you man? There's so many, so many different directions I want to go. I want to go from here because you brought up so many different things while I was speaking that I wanted to circle back to. I'm sorry, though. That's good. That's great. One of them was that the idea that people are having have a hard time committing to things. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's maybe that's me. Harding to commit to the subject. No, no, no, well, this in general, I love to I love to free flow. I think it's I think I think it's I think it keeps it fun. And especially if you can kind of keep, I look at the conversations that gives like a epicenter and then there's little webs that like spring from it and then like you can try to find their way back to the center and then back, you know, web out and then find another way. And then like listening back to this, you're going to see that the whole conversation had a theme and we've been exploring different like sidetracks along the way, you know, but has a theme for sure.

52:47 That's it happens a lot without even me realizing it most of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've been thinking a lot about that too, because people have, you know, the divorce rate is super high. The people, people are not choosing to be in relationships more than like ever. People aren't choosing to be in friendships more than ever, you know, and there's very, it almost feels like a lot of people think, what's the point, you know? Because I think that what makes someone commit to something is the promise of something, you know, of something great happening at the end.

53:29 You know, a lot of people grew up with what happened to the end. Like seeing what happens at the end is like, OK, like big deal. You know, who cares? You know, like, why bother trying? You know, like it almost feel, it feels like there's a gloom that's like a social gloom that's in a lot of people. And there's no springs, by the way of, like, life that pop up like, like the open mic world or like, you know, the Billy Strings world where like, someone who's taught I was in an interview with actually super cool. I had such a great time. This guy's name is Dennis McNally. He was the Grateful Dead's publicist. Nice. That's very cool it. Was so cool did Jerry Garcia walked him down the aisle with Bill Krochtman, who the drummer and he wrote four books on the on like how black music and white music meshed in the 50s and 60s about Jack Kerouac, about the Grateful Dead and about how bohemians and beatniks turned into hippies. So that was that was a super cool, you know, conversation. But one of the things we were talking about is that the most explosive creativity comes from periods of gloom, you know, like comes from like periods of like, like, you know, like where everyone kind of feels down and like a couple of people will be like, no, like we're not going to let this happen to us. You know, you think, you see that, you think that happens is happening in today's world.

54:46 You think like, we're having some of that now. What are the positive things that we look that you look for like that are like hope in like today's world? Because I feel like, yeah, you're a pretty hopeful guy, and I am too. We try to live our lives like. Try. To but you, you live your life like that, like you choose to be in a happy, you know, in a relationship, you choose to pursue your passions and like put your effort and time into it instead of saying, yeah, well, it's probably not going to work. You know, like you choose to do that, You know, what do you think feeds that and what do you think keeps that going? I've tried nihilism. Yeah, I've tried. Not for how long. Yeah, not for long. Not for long. I read a little bit about it and I was just like, yeah, it was just do. You see what people can cling to about it. Like, do you see what's attractive about it, do you think?

55:31 What do you think people like seeing it? Maybe it's cool, you know, like maybe it's, I don't know. I'm just saying. But you don't. You saw it. You're like, no. Yeah, it's just like it's not fun, right? It's, it's lacking fun, it's lacking colour. You know, life, but also life can be, you know, you can, you can feel down, you can be depressed. So so. But you don't. But that doesn't define it. It doesn't like, like when you have down period, you're not a down person when I meet you. I don't think this guy's like dead inside, you know? I think that this guy's got, this guy's got lots. Of fun, but I but I have I have dealt with with, I want to say not not really diagnosed, but you know, like in high school definitely felt depressed. And so so I think I think that to your point, I'm I'm talking I'm looking at the bigger picture. I think it's because it's hard.

56:26 It's hard nowadays with with technology in 2025, with the news, with how our day to days are built for most adults, grown-ups, right around the phone, a technological thing, right, that's taking over our brain and our chemistry and our hormones. And sometimes I don't even try to look to people in the eyes, you know, because I'm looking down, dude, and I can't read them and. Headphones also do that to me by the way. Headphones. Airpods if I'm walking in Costco even if I'm not even. Like even if I'm not looking at my phone. I find myself avoiding people's eye contact when I have my headphones in for sure.

57:07 So we, we already lost the village, you know, the, the, it takes a village, right to raise a kid or to, to live. So we already lost the village like years ago, obviously, right. But now, but now even more so. It's really hard and without being depressing because we want to be hopeful, but it's, it's just really trying to, to find, to find within yourself your friendships and be able to really care about the people that are around you and not to look at the negative stuff in your life and in their lives. And, and it's, it's really hard. It's, it's, it's work as well. It's. How would you teach someone, if someone asks you how to make a friend, how do you teach them to make, to make friends, to make a new friend?

57:49 Because I think a lot of people, a lot of people are looking for friends and a lot of people. Don't know how to get them. Do you think you can teach? I think it's just. I think, yeah. I think you can, I think that tell me, I think that friendship is, is the, is the experience of having some kind of something in common or some kind of shared interest with another person and then establishing a sense of trust based on that interest. Right. So for example, when you and I met. Right. Yeah, we were clearly both. I I could tell obviously you're Israeli. Yeah. You're, you know, a tattoo. Yeah. And and then and I saw and I heard and I could even tell just by your vibe, like your style, the way you played. I was like, this is a dude I could talk to. And then I think even though you started a conversation with me, we won't have music in common, you know, at 1st and then we start talking and then we establish a sense of like, he's someone that thinks similarly to me. And so I could trust him.

58:46 Maybe he's in, maybe he would understand this part of me. And so I open up with that kind of aspect, you know, a new aspect. And then, oh, now we have not only do we have common, you know, interest, but we also have a sense of history. Now I'm vulnerable to him. I've shared something new with him, but he is also experienced, you know, and, and then that kind of just snowballs by itself, I think. Right. And so I think from there. But what was necessary to begin with was for you and I to both be in that open mic place at the same time. You know, like I would never have spoken to you if I practice guitar in my backyard every day of my life. I wasn't thinking about, yeah. You know that would that would never have. Happened. Yeah, that's that's very true.

59:27 And to to your point, it's actually put yourself out there, right. And don't don't stay at home. That's what I think you're saying. Like I'm taking from what you're saying, put yourself out there is go outside. You know the the world has a lot to offer. So much. Right. And say, yeah, you know, and. Some of the coolest dudes you have. Crappy little hole walls. You have a baby at home. You have work, your teaching, teaching at school, like I'm saying it in the best way possible. You're putting it for a hobby, for a dream. It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be so, you know, like deeply thought or like what's the meaning behind it? You're just, you're doing and right. And just by that, like we're sitting here and talking. This is amazing. Yeah, enjoy. This love you brother it's.

1:00:08 Great. Yeah. Yeah, It's fun, dude. I I told you we'd have a blast. I knew it. Yeah, it's so much fun just talking. Yeah, and we started the podcast, you know that this whole episode by saying I was dreading not to come because I was just stressful with life and my my brain was just overthinking like bunch of stuff. But but this is this is. Sad. So I think I think this is good 2 great takeaways when you're when you're overthinking to get to get moving a little bit. And then I think, I think people really need friends. I think that there's such a loneliness problem. And I think, and like, one thing I've been noticing in like on one hand, just scary as heck, but like there's been a lot of violence recently, you know, but like there's also a lot of sad, sick, lonely people out there.

1:00:48 You know, there's a lot of like mental health issues is like, oh, I was meant to ask you, was Israel like that growing up with technology with your phone when you were saying that? Because I found that whenever I visit, and it's only for a couple of weeks at a time, that it feels like the world is much like the world in Israel. Like people are much more likely to are much more engaged with one another than they are just sitting on their phones the way that Americans are and that life is much more. Growing up or nowadays which I don't live there anymore like. Well, since I guess since you've been there, I guess throughout your life, do you find that or do you find that that was more in America? Now I feel like it's like. I think it's. Called, you know, when I visit and I talk to my friends and family now, I think it's like any other place in the world.

1:01:29 And it depends on yourself and your environment, right? Maybe there are areas, you know, like in Tel Aviv, which is an amazing city, people are more like out and alive. And you know, it's like like this living thing that people are like interacting, experiencing more. And maybe if you live, I don't know, in Beersheba, maybe you're more stuck in your apartment. What it depends. It really depends, right? But growing up with, I remember like I got at certain point, like a teenager, I got addicted to Sony PlayStation and computer gaming. Wow, dude. Yeah. Badly in the best. It was so much fun. Hours and hours out there. Hours, dude. 8 hours .8 hours God of War, whatever it was. Counter strike, yeah.

1:02:16 I can't imagine but also but. Also, I was just outside also like before that or even some days with that, you know, just a kid, no responsibilities out all day and on the bicycle with friends from the Mushab or in the at the kibbutz. And I think, I don't know, I think there's areas, you know, in the world where people are still growing up without iPads, let's say, right, or without the technology like that, whether it's the community or it's the parenting. I'm not getting. My kids, any of that, I just, I actually just spoke to my sister. She lives, you already know, but she lives in Canada, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto.

1:03:03 It's so different with with her three daughters that are kind of like teenagers already and they're doing so good. Oh yeah. Yeah, they're like the the parent, like the kids and the parent, like my sister and her husband. And they're very conscientious about it. Amazing parents, amazing parents. Seriously. Wow. And but she just shared with me actually, that it's really hard to keep, try to keep them off of the screens, you know, because it's inevitable. It's inevitable, so it's just what it is. But it's not like there's still hope. It's just we're living with it whether we want it or not.

1:03:46 So you have to fight for it like. This is the theme you have to fight. You have to understand. It you have to understand and be like this is going to, this is designed to be addicting to you. Like you have to know that. Like you have to understand that this that this job is to its job is to have your eyeballs on it and for it to be active as long as humanely possible. And like, I think that I think giving kids that knowledge and, and letting them know it's not like that there is a reason why it's not that they're being bad. It's not. And I think this is also like you're like, oh, social media is bad. Get off your phone. Get off your phone. Like it's like, but I like my phone. Like I really like my phone.

1:04:28 Like, yeah, you're so just explain. You're supposed to like it. It's, it's developed for you to like it, but it's also developed for you to spend your time on it and not to be playing football with your friends or not to be playing, you know, go bicycle riding with your friends and not to be doing other things. And that's why it's so much fun, because it's trying to replace that and. Yeah, he's trying to replace every. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I think, I think that explaining that too. I think that understanding that explaining that like I don't blame any kid for being I'm addicted to Twitter. I am straight up addicted to Twitter and and it's so hard for me to break and I deleted the app and it doesn't help because I just go on my Safari browser and I just and I'm on it all the time. That's your advice. It's it's that's your advice and it never stops. And because it's just a flood of constant new news and whatever the algorithm, you know, picks up that I'm currently reading about or interested in, you know, and like. But it's OK, you know, I mean, we, we can't, yeah. But what does that make it do?

1:05:24 What does that do as opposed to doing this dude? But we're going out with you. I spent 4 hours on that instead of going to the open mic and I'm like oh man what happened? But we're not monks, you know, unless, unless you want to try to go, you know, and try to really deprive yourself of stimulation in general, good and bad, and try to teach yourself good. Yeah, I may have to use a recording. That's OK, yeah. That's all good. Yeah, it's still running. Good, because mine stopped. Great. OK, we're going to use yours. We'll just have to add to mine for sure. OK, Yeah. So no, you were saying about the Twitter and like you know that it kind. Of no, but so I'm aware of that issue and I'm aware that it exists, but if I wasn't like I have to I think that I think I think it has to be part I think that's part of education. I think it's part of teaching.

1:06:14 I think it's part of like the responsibility of a parent is to like explain to a kid that like Facebook and Twitter and TikTok and Instagram spend billions of dollars learning how to most effectively. Keep you. Exactly. Some people, some people. There is this viewpoint maybe that some people teach or use those things as tools, right, or the phone in general. And that's also an interesting, right. So you can also just this is a tool, you know, this can be you can be consumer, right? And you can also use it for entertainment, right? And yeah, but let's say, for example, if you teach a kid, right?

1:07:01 Oh, this can this can be to learn stuff, right? You're putting natural geographic on. This. Your podcasts are incredible. Yeah. I mean, I've learned so much in the last couple of years. Yeah. You know, from podcast, like, like, more than like I could fathom, you know, like my entire life has changed because, I mean, because of exposure to information on here, you know? Yeah, for sure. And then there's the other side. Of it. So it's exactly it's both, it's both, it's inevitable. Yeah, that's, I feel that way about AI too. I think it'd be a great companion. Yeah, it's crazy. I I Duff Duff this morning she saw a video and the video looked very real, obviously, but she showed it to me and it's not like I can tell woo Hoo, I'm so good.

1:07:47 But it just like I was surprised that that she didn't get it and I told her, oh, this is AI and now so I don't allow myself. So The thing is it's it's not and I'm not a sucker. It's just I don't allow, if there's a chance, if it's really that good, immediately I'm suspicious and I open the comments, you know, and I'm like, I have to check because it's too crazy nowadays. It's too crazy. I don't allow myself to just fall for something like that, you know, because I understand that that's crazy. Everything now can be this pocket. Someone's going to listen to this now. My. Question my. My my thing with my friends is any, any sort of time I trip them, it's every time I like to be like a joker, you know, like so now people are going to listen to this.

1:08:35 They have, they'll have no idea. You know, this can this can be AI. And it could be right. And I was going to say that that that could lead you on the path of insanity. You know, like that's inception, that's the matrix, That's all this stuff. You know, it's like, dude, dude, how far are we from really not being able to tell like what is real or not? Wow. You know, like we're not like I was thinking when I, you know, when the mushrooms hit a little bit yesterday, it was like I was thinking about how my body could be like a like a like a like for the first time in my life, Like I think my body could really be like a first player video game, you know, like I have like the perspective as my hands are here and like everything is being seen through a lens and like perception, you know, like it's like perception is just like that concept, you know, like, oh man, let's not go down this road right now. This is not, this is not a good place to this is not a good place for me to go.

1:09:27 I'll just stare at the sky for a little bit, you know? People call it I forgot. Yeah, dude, that. But that kind of stuff scares the hell out of me sometimes. But then in the day, I'm like, you know, that's not too different. The idea of God as a creator, you know, it's not too different. Like, OK, so it's a Matrix or a video game or a simulation or. God or. Simulation theory or anything like that. But like the day you're still stuck in it, you still have to navigate it, there's still rules to it. And like, there's still like ways to clearly win or not, you know, like, clearly ways to win are like, yeah, the things that like you can into it, you know, you can tell like. So even if it's not like I hope I'm doing a pretty good job at this game, you know, like I hope, I hope I'm playing well because you know otherwise.

1:10:09 Man, so wild, dude, it's so wild. Yeah, life is wild. Yeah, I get into that trippy category, man. Here's that trippy category. Mushrooms are great. Dude, tell me you had some festivals that you went to, because I've never been to. Actually, I've never been to festivals. Only who the wing we need. To go this year. No, my friends are. I try to win some free tickets. Yeah, yeah, on Instagram, but I didn't get them. What about as a photographer or as a press? No, I don't want to work. I mean, it can be actually a fun experience, but if I want to go with my wife, you know, and have fun and just experience, you know, immersing experience, I don't want to work. Yeah, I just want. To I'm reading the electric kool-aid trip. Do you know the boogies? You ever heard of it?

1:10:50 It's about, I think the guy's name was Neil Cassidy that bought the bus in the 60s school bus called further and, and they painted it with Dayglo and like tie dye and the entire thing was supposed to be, you know, that you ever hear of the acid, acid tests from the from the 60s? What's it called? Yes, I think I heard it. That's where the Grateful Dead started playing is basically a is it a giant party and like a huge. No, so I'm not familiar with. It so these these when acid is first come making its way to the states. By the way, and I didn't know this either. San Francisco was the epicenter of Eastern culture, meeting western culture because that was the furthest point east of yeah. I never thought W rather of America, but before you get to the East and I never thought of, I never even like conceived that that would like be the relationship. But like Buddhism and yoga and, and, and all this stuff started in San Francisco, you know, like it started, it started like in that, in that part of the, in the part of the world, because Chinatown is huge there, you know, and the whole Asian, the whole Asian school of thought, you know, was just like, that was the first place to come into like the Mafia was so big in New York and Boston, because they're all coming from Ireland and Italy and everything like that, you know, East, you know, so the same thing from the West.

1:12:09 They'd have these acid tests where they just be there, no alcohol at the time, acid was legal. And, and they just rent any space. It could be a warehouse, it could be an apartment, it could be a park, it could be wherever. And everyone going to acid the Grateful Dead would play or a bunch of better get a bunch of bands that would play and and they'd have artists and painters and visuals and like, and everyone just do whatever they want and everything was legal because the cops have come and you can't. It's not like take acid. Yeah, by the way, they'll get spiked all the time. They'll be like, oh, you want some orange juice? You want some, you know, punch? You want, you want some cake? You want whatever. And. Crazy. That's crazy. Dude, Can you imagine spiking a? Cop That's not cool.

1:12:50 Can you imagine a full order? I mean, it's for a good 'cause I guess for a good cause. But no, spiking anyone is not not a good thing to do, but interesting. And so it started this other like, you know, we should take these acid trips as acid tests and take them on the road. And so they loaded up a bus with a film crew and they just wanted to drive across the country from LA to New York and back and like, just bring like this new far outlook, you know, across the country and see how people responded to it. And the footage was awful because everyone was on acid the whole time or mushrooms or, you know, whatever. And they couldn't do anything with the footage.

1:13:33 But one guy that happened to your writer that like went along with it, documented the whole thing in a book called The Electric kool-aid Trip. And so I'm just, so I'm just reading that right now. Why do we do things like that today? Just go on an adventure like that. Yeah, but like, the Grateful Dead would put on like, free concerts in the park just for, like, the sake of people, like, just hanging out together. Like you know what? People do it though. Yeah, do they do? I mean, there's in the. I know that. The park in Forlord in Hollywood you have a bluegrass, bluegrass free festival like every, I think once a month. Really. Yeah. Do you go there? I I went once. I went once, two years ago. It was great. I didn't think about these things, yeah. But there, yeah, there's things happening all the time. Yeah.

1:14:16 Just we're we're in our own, you know, world own worlds and you know, we're going to open mic, for example, you know, we're doing the open mic that. It's hard to find. It's a open mic. So, you know, I mean, like even if you wanted to, if we wanted to go to more, where do you find, you know, like they're hard to find. People don't want to do them very often. How do you work? And I've had many places that totally. Search away and you're finding probably like around like whatever's around you, you know? I know and it, but there's not a lot, right? And then I've spoken to people about like, starting them up, like in breweries or starting them up in different locations and like, OK, get people to come and like. Well, that's you want, you want to start something, that's what you're saying. Well, I don't know how to get people to come and I get people to come.

1:14:57 I would love to start something. I think that I think that we need, I think that what I think would be a huge benefit to everyone in every capacity in this country would be more embodied experiences, would be more people getting up, leaving their houses and going to do and going to be in other places with other people. I'm a huge, huge advocate of it. And I could see, I know for a fact, isolation is the worst thing you can do to people. It's so easy and I've thought this, this could have happened to me so many, so many times over in my life. I went a very typical route where I was in high school, I went to college, I got a degree, I got a remote job where I could live wherever I wanted, have an apartment by myself, be home for 10 hours a day and then be in my apartment. I could drink or smoke weed or do whatever to go or be healthy, go for a job or whatever.

1:15:47 But I'm probably not going to because, you know, I'm a 22 year old living by myself and I have my phone and I whatever and I'm working remote. I'm tired at the end of the day and I can go days or weeks out seeing people. Solitary confinement, it's like the worst psychological punishment you can do to anyone for sure, and it's happening on a mass scale everywhere. Without even thinking. Yeah. And with it's like voluntary, it's voluntary. It's voluntary prison like. That very interesting. Yeah, I agree with you. So we know you. Want to you want to have a solution for that you want to do? Something well, so that I think that's I think that's that's a huge benefit. I know in my life and like I've talked about a lot of my friends recently that, you know, just about the benefits of religious lifestyle is like the community, like for sure, whatever. Like I hang out with people.

1:16:32 I'm with people every single day. I'm with groups of people every single day of my life, whether it's three to five people in jiu jitsu a couple days a week or whether it's 20 people in synagogue. Even if I'm only talking to like four or five of them, I still am with and talk to, you know, 20, you know, four or five people. Yeah, community and then people coming out because you know what, you're someone that lives 2 doors down that has a kid and that's also working, you know, long hours and wants a beer at the end of the day and so am I. So let's just sit in my backyard together for 20 minutes and have a beer and go home, you know? And like that is so healthy. That's so like, I forget what you think about like God or organized religion or anything like that, Like. And just healthy people have that. No, I agree with you.

1:17:15 Kids are growing up playing football with each other every Saturday, you know, for four or five hours because they can't do anything else. There's no phone or electronics or TV or anything like that. The only option you have is to knock on someone's door and say, hey, is your kid home? Can I play with them? You know, and like, and you go up in like a really healthy environment. You know, it's really so, so I think it's, I'm, I'm really trying to encourage people. To put you out there, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that. And I'm sure that, you know, even if religion is all BS and all made-up, which I don't believe it is, but even if it was, yeah, it's still a pretty freaking good thing, you know, like the alternative. I don't. Think it is. I don't think it is, but yeah. But to your point, yes, exactly there is.

1:17:55 Even if someone think, you know, it's completely bullshit or whatever, then definitely there's a lot of truths in it. And you know, like a lot of you can find truths in it or like good stuff that it, it can bring to your life. Exactly for sure. But yeah, we should definitely, definitely be more out out and together, like doing stuff that, you know, like as people agree with you. But sometimes it's, it's it's hard to to put yourself out there or to step outside of your shell or, you know, your own brain. And just like, OK, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go try open mic. Like the first time I went to to the open mic asked my wife and I was going to explore, you know, I didn't go to to say I did. Yeah.

1:18:43 I was like not experimenting. I was doing research. I was doing research. I was like, what's going on? How does this work? You know, yeah, it's interesting. But that's the first step. That's okay. You don't have to play. No, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But walking to the room. Just Mama and me, the person behind the bar, the Super nice people, the cool people behind the bar. And then next time you come they say, hey, it's good to see you again. You're like, all right, I know that it's okay, everything is good. Shout out to my Mamas. By the way, yeah, shout out to my mom. This is wild man. That was wild. That place is amazing. It's so, it's, it's so cool. I feel like that's the good place that I feel like is a personification of like the 60s and 70s, like found in today's world. Yes, yeah, yeah.

1:19:29 I mean, I, I didn't read a lot, but it feels very like, you know, from what I know from maybe movies or what you're telling from the latest story, right, Yeah. And stuff like that. Yeah. And all the people there and just like. It's some people personalities and people come and some people buy records. Some people just come to hang out and see whatever, like just what the people look like. Yeah. You know, I mean so much fun. Yeah. Are we going this week? I'm not going to be here. What's up? Where are you going? Well, first of all, Tuesday's hog and I'm going to, and then I'm going to New York, NY, Yeah. I'm. Going to play, I hate getting complaints. Yeah, but it's a short flight. It's a short flight, such I. Know about to pack. You got a pack for. I got a pack for four, actually, by the way, I'm not even going to do all the packing before I wipe this, but I'm going to be slapping the things before and then and you got to be on the and you got to be in the plane.

1:20:20 Yeah, but that's a short. That's like 3 hours. I mean, you have kids who are different, but I sometimes like movies I like. That's where I catch up on like silly movies, you know, on a plane. I don't. I don't know if you can do it with two kids. I can. Maybe a little, Maybe. The best I could do is take an edible and, like, listen to the listen to the Grateful Dead in one ear, you know, while I'm, like, hanging out the other. Exactly. Yeah. That's the best I could deal with that. But it's OK, you know, by the way. And then by the way, flying by myself since then has become a luxury. You know, buying by myself is like, this is awesome. You know, I'm by myself. I'm playing solitaire or ball breaker, you know, on the on the screen the whole time on the way.

1:21:02 Where is it going? I think from Israel to Amsterdam. No, Amsterdam, back to America. That's a longer, long, longer flight. Longer flight I legitimately probably spent 4 hours playing ball breaker on on the plane and like I felt my eyes hurting and my head hurting and I'm like I never get to just like sit and do nothing I'm just going to. Yeah, I'm just going to belt your. Brain, yeah, for sure. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Nice, but. So so no open mic. I'll try. I'll try to. Go go to it. Go go to it. By the way, go by yourself is more fun I think. I actually had a lot, a lot of fun last time we went together. It was. It was really cool. You could be, you could be more risky without anyone there. There's no pressure of like the person, no. But but going with a friend, you know, it doesn't feel risky. It feels for me, it feels risking quotations, going with someone I don't know, like.

1:21:56 Going with my wife was a horrible was horrible for me. Yeah, it wasn't fun for me too. It's. Hard because it was also like I'm trying to press my wife like at the same time I don't want to like. It's it's a too close of a person. Yeah, right. And like, you know, already there's there's like you guys know each other a lot. And. Yeah, exactly. But with a friends, like, I don't, I don't care. Like, yeah, I, I feel like, you know, like next to you. I don't, I don't care to fumble. Yeah. Or to goof around. Because, you know, I don't give a crap. Exactly. And say yeah. And vice versa. Exactly. So that's fun. You know, you just. And that's, that's also a big thing about like just being out there with a community, with community over with friends, like, yes, you know, being able to do stuff not on your own. I mean, there's something to do things on your own and being a wolf or whatever, that's also cool. And there's some cool stuff in that. But yeah.

1:22:44 There's also that and I, I, I. What I've found particularly fun and cool is that, like what I said about making friends is that you guys find something in common to begin with, right? Yeah. If you're a relatively interesting human being, you have probably more than one thing that you like, right? Like, you could probably speak to someone for hours about your bike, and I'm not that person to speak to, right? Like, it's not my language, right? Yeah. And so you have friends that you can be certain ways around based on the premise of your relationship. You know, like my premise of my relationship with you is largely, I would say like emotional and musical, like just like talking about like emotions and talking about things and then also musical. But like so I don't so but it's not say based on our kids being friends, you know, or our wives being friends. So like this.

1:23:31 So, so who we so, so this to the side of me that comes out when I'm hanging out with you is it's a side that I don't always get to bring out all the time. It's a it's a side that's there and it's like, you know, like it's, you know, it's I try to feed it and help it grow and like I love it. And then when there's other people to share with, that's when it really grows. That's when it really, I feel like when we were jamming together. You get better at playing music just in that one experience. I'm like, I felt like I got, I got, I became a better music player, like a better guitar player just in that one time. And that's all it takes. And so like, and then you have your photography friends and you have your running friends, then you have your jiu jitsu friends, then you have your beer friends and like, and every single side like you're, you're, you're expressing a particular aspect of you with someone else.

1:24:13 They're like a embodiment of your passion in your life to you. Can be. Can be they can be right and that and I think that's a really cool. I think that's, that's also one of the huge benefits of relationships is like emergence, like when you, when you share something together so that, you know, the, what comes out is bigger than the individual parts, you know, And so it's, that's, that's, that's and they really, I, I'm also, I, I want to advocate these ideas and I want to get them out like as profoundly and. Clearly, as I can already, you know, this podcast is really. Cool. You just get listeners, you know, a couple more. Even if it's one. By the way, I even want that. I was just thinking recently, I just came to the realization about like a couple of days ago even that there are more people in my life that I even realized that think highly about things that I say.

1:25:06 Like take what I say seriously. And that means that I have a responsibility to like be selective about what I say. You know, like if I'm embodying negativity, like about a particular thing that is contagious to people, I've noticed. And so that gives me the responsibility of having to be on. Positive, positive oriented, yeah. Or like, yeah. Whatever that is. But you're still allowed to explore and question and voice it out, right? And also, you know, like you to be a human. But it's a wait. But if I have a 500 people listening or 5000 people listening, I do I, do you think I'm going to have the same kind of conversation? You're going to be doing like the same thing. Like that's something that I've been thinking about that like is really.

1:25:54 Let's let's pretend we have sitting on me. We have for this episode live right now. We have 10,000 people listening. Do you think it would have gone differently? Maybe, I don't know. It's the probably the same. Yeah, it's probably the same. I guess it's how confident I am and what got me there, right? Like if I'm confident that what got me there was me doing was me being it was me being me, then just keep doing that, you know? But if I felt like what's what got me, what got me there was something else, then I have to keep up that, you know, that charade or that. But but that's that's also that's interesting. It's cool, you know, like you have those morals, ethics questions that you ask yourself, that you check yourself, you know, that you're still in line.

1:26:38 Like am I still in line with what feels good to me, what feels like in my with religion and even without just like as a person, Right. Yeah, definitely. As a person. It definitely resonates with Judaism and with your with the religion, obviously, but but also just with a person. Exactly right. And I think I think that's that's good. I think that's good. You know, that you can you, you ask those questions to yourself. And yeah, I think more people actually should ask question like that in general for about themselves, you know, like am I, am I doing good for the people around me? I don't I don't think, I don't think enough people ask maybe you know, a lot of people, you know, they're kind of self-centered.

1:27:29 I think so. It takes time, it takes work. I had to work to become mature. And I also think by the way, your brain evolves as you take on more responsibilities and you learn to think that way. So for example, like the way that you think now that you have a wife is very different than when you thought when you were single even when you were dating, right? Like the way you consider things and like the way that you measure out your actions and the way you spend your time and like your resources is fundamentally different right now. And it's just, it's just the way our brains work, right? So as presumably as you progress you, as you progress through life, as you go through different stages, your brain evolves to become more considerate because you have more responsibilities if you're avoiding those responsibilities, if you're not choosing to take on those responsibilities. And a lot of people, their brains don't evolve. I wouldn't imagine their brains are evolving to learn to be considerate the same way because they don't have to be. Like, I think part of like my consideration is out of necessity, I have to, I can't spend all my money on beer and weed, you know, because I have a mortgage to pay. And I got like his tuition bill to pay and I got to have my my daughter's food to pay for, you know, and yeah, yeah. You know.

1:28:37 And so, so, so it forces me to start thinking about things differently. It forced me to start thinking about, well, now, yeah. Now that I have, now that I'm considering my money, how am I with my time? How am I with my interaction? I think that's why a lot why sometimes people can be we're not. Sometimes why people can be, I think that that's why there's a lot of weakness maybe in the world, let's say that I think there is because people don't take enough responsibility on themselves, which is not fun, right? Yeah. I, I, you know, I had conversations with my dad that I straight up told him like, I don't want to work. I don't want to do, you know, like I told him I if if I straight up told him if I could, I was running Duddy or whatever, told him if I could, I could just, I would just lay on the beach and be a bum, you know, just do you. Think you would you would just satisfied with your I. Had a moment in time that I, I, I, it was really easy for me to say that and think that right without really doing it. I was just like, I just want to see sunsets all day, just be in the ocean, you know, just want to ride a motorcycle and come back to the ocean and just like play Frisbee or, you know, and there is that side of me that, you know, really enjoys that, you know, would let me indulge just being at the beach and just, yeah, but not really, not really just doing that right. But I think there's also that like that there's a lot of weakness and, and and self doubt

1:30:10 and not taking responsibility and and like trying to put more on yourself, you know, like, oh, I can take more, you know, yeah, I can be a husband. Yeah. I can have like a serious job and maybe even workers under you. Or I'm afraid of that part of. That kids, Yeah, Well, makes sense, you know, makes sense. Maybe Jordan Peterson came up on my You should be. You should be. You should. Be by the way, you should feel better man. Apparently apparently he's been super sick but. Just set it. Yeah, it's so good. So good, by the way, you damn well should be.

1:30:53 He's great. I love. Him. Yeah, man, that guy's a trip. That guy's a trip. I what's fun about him. So my friend pointed out to me the other day, he's like, he said, he admits he's like like 20 years ago he had his ideas and like the last 10 years or 15 years, he's like flushing them out in real time, you know, And I think people and people are giving him a hard time about like not having fully established ideas a lot of the time. And they say, oh, he talks a lot and it's a lot of, you know, gibberish. But I think it's part of the process of getting to like discovering your idea like to. A point. To a point you think. No, no, you're saying? Oh, to a point, yeah. So for example, you know, there if if there's something about there's something that's bothering about teaching, right.

1:31:37 And it felt like I was investing myself and try to find the most fun classes for my students. And for some reason, and I tried to keep them fun and entertaining. Like it gives me music and it's going to be a project and they're going to be able to like choose their own way to do it. It's going to be so much fun. And then I explained to them and I'm like, and here it is. And they're like, how many sentences does it have to be? You know, I'm like, what? I don't care. Just like do well. And they're like, no, I'm like, and I'm like, oh, wait. And then it took me, it took me months to like talk it out to my friends and like be like, I don't get it. And like, what could it be? And you know, maybe it's the way that I'm presenting it. Maybe. And then I realized like, oh, wait a minute, I'm teaching because I want to teach. And they're in school because they're forced to be in school. And if they're not in school, then their parents going to get mad at them and they're going to be in trouble. And like we're both coming at this from totally different areas.

1:32:24 And like, it took me like 3 or 4 months of talking this idea out with different people, like my mom and my friends and my wife and, and my, and the principal of the school and like talking about these ideas. And then after some amount of time talking it like it just like like it's almost like a sculpture where like you chip away at different like pieces. No, it's not that. No, it's not that. And then you have the final product like, oh, now I see what this is. This is what it is. Very cool. Yeah, Honestly, it's very cool. Very interesting also, and very, very connected. I can see what you're saying about Jordan Pearson. And I think that's also a part of like, you know, the the mainstream thought or consciousness, right? That it's everything, especially nowadays, has to be rushed.

1:33:05 We're watching 22nd videos. Oh, you didn't get to your point. You're stumbling on your words. Or maybe you're still developing a point because the world is still in motion and you know, things can coexist and whatever. I don't know, I'm very generalizing, but you get what I'm saying. It's very interesting what you said that, you know, like it took you in a few months to really see the whole picture and and kind of figure it out like that. It's it's. There's a lot of things, there's a lot of things that happen. And I think that that's been like that's been for me, the most useful and helpful tool to get to know myself is talk is really talking to people in a very open and honest and raw way because and then getting feedback and a lot of times being forced to explain yourself helps make sure that you really understand the idea. Well, you know, it's a classic thing with like, you know, when I was in school, the teacher was like, oh, you get in. I'm like, yeah, OK, well say back to me and you're like, I can't, but I get the idea.

1:34:09 Are you familiar with this white Jamaican boy? His real name is Gideon. I forgot his Instagram Instagram tag but shout out to Gideon. So he's it's like, I don't know, like his content sometimes, you know, it's like 818 plus, right? It's not for kids, right? The things he talks about or whatever. But he's hilarious. But he also he trolls people. So for example, he would go in Jamaica or in the United States, and he will tell you a joke and he will see like you want to hear a joke. And then in his patois, Jamaican accent, OK, go. Then the fish and the fish and the lizard.

1:34:54 And they said hello, ha, ha, ha. And he starts laughing. And then the other person laughs too from discomfort. Yeah. And they ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And then? You get it. Funny, right? And then you get it and then the person says yes and he's like, explain it. And then it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a show, by the way, what we people find funny, right? Like I, I love going to the movies and laughing with an audience. Like I love going to the movie. Like I'm a Marvel fan, right? The feeling when Captain America and End Game picked up Thor's hammer and the whole theatre exploded was such a like moment where it's like how many people are doing IMAX theatre, right? It's like 200 people are all there and everyone goes and like, and like you're just surrounded like people celebrating and you're like elated and like, and then you watch it again at home.

1:35:45 You're like, that was pretty cool, you know, you know, but like there's something so and also go out there goes to like the shared experiences that like these things are contagious, you know, and these things and like you walk away and they're heightened and they're fun and they're cool. But, but, you know, to the point, like to the point is that the best way that I got to know myself is because I'm trying to explain myself to people. And if they don't get it, it forces me to try to explain it more clearly or cut down or cut away crap or cut, you know, to the root of things or the core of things. And then I'm like, oh, wait, that's what it really is the whole time, you know, and I didn't even know that though. I didn't even know that until I was like, you know, to figure it out, you know, So it's all there and you kind of and, and, and, and, and it helps and it helps to talk and refine it. And that's why therapy, I think, is so useful to people. And that's why people that like have close good friends, a lot of times they're mentally a lot more healthy if they feel like they can confide in people and have real conversations. 100%, yeah.

1:36:40 Because you're not. You're not just speaking to yourself without words, like thinking, right? Yeah. You're not just in your head. You hear yourself, which is a different process. Probably also neurologic, like physical, right? You're listening to your pitch even right now, the addiction, right? That's how you say addiction. Addiction. I was about to say dictation. Dictation is another word that's all similar, yeah. Dictator to dictate something to lead the way, yeah. Interesting. OK. You dictate to Siri. Yeah, yeah. So you hear yourself, right. And then you can, if you're being aware and really trying to listen to yourself and what you're trying to listening right, then you're able to really process yourself better or differently, right, Even the way that you write things down for sure.

1:37:28 Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's your point, you know, like being like being out there and, and maybe talking to other people and being together. I definitely notice a big difference. Just like even even with you or just speaking to friends, for sure. Because, yeah, if not, if I'm not doing that, then I'm not feeling well. We need to be outside. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My favorite question to ask you about is what are you thinking? Yeah. So what do you think? What do you think? And they're like about what I'm like, I don't know whatever is in your mind, Like I want to hear like your train. I want to like hear your train of thought. I want to. And a lot of times, by the way, and I could tell who I like based on what their answer a lot of the time is. Because if you will get annoyed by that question, they're like, I don't want to bother like thinking about expressing what I'm thinking.

1:38:17 And I'm like, that's not really like fun, you know, like that, you know, like, OK, we could talk about something stupid that I could like, I could, I could look up on Twitter. But like, yeah, I want to get to know you. Like, I want to get to know like, what makes you a human being? You know? Like there's something there that like, I want to have a relationship with. And if there isn't, then like, what am I having a relationship with, you know? Maybe there or maybe there's no because, you know, you don't. Not everybody connects, you know, like it doesn't. Yeah, my friends said the the friendship is different. You know, the conversations are different and it's also like different depths. You know, it can be a little more shallow or whatever. And that's also. Yeah, also the perfect. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun for sure. Should we should we get the jamming a little bit? Yeah, but I think, but I think off. Yes, let's call it here.

1:39:00 This is a lot of fun, dude. I really appreciate it. It's your first podcast. You did first podcast. What do you think? That was really fun. Just that means another conversation with you, so I. Know, but it's. Just having just talking shit. I think it's a great time. Yeah, a ton of fun. All right, dude, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Come together. Right now.