#127: Ephraim Herschmann / Deplatforming v Debates / Monsters and Babies / Risk and Comfort

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.

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We are back, ladies and
gentlemen, with another episode

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of Come Together solo episode.
So episode today I actually

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recorded like I think maybe 3 or
4 solo episodes in the last

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month or so that I just haven't
posted for the video that have a

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tiny little coffee here that I'm
a big fan of espresso Nespresso,

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double espresso glass.
But yeah I don't know I wasn't

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really too happy with the
content even though I made my

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way through the forty 4550
minutes that I like to post for

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solo recordings.
I, I don't know, I didn't feel

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great about them and I don't
know whether it's because they

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were forced or whether or not I
just hadn't done it in a long

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time.
Solo episodes like that.

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It's been a couple of months
now.

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Instead of doing it maybe once a
week or once every other week,

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it's every month or two that I'm
posting solo episodes.

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And that's obviously for better.
I think so, yeah.

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I don't want to spend too much
time talking about that and

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rambling on that.
I I had a bunch of things that I

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wanted to talk about and I got
my handy dandy piece of tiny

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paper over here.
And there's actually a bunch of

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different topics on there that I
kind of wanted to start talking

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about or at least trying to be
thoughtful about and present,

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you know, and just just to kind
of put out some information for

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people to think about.
And the first thing that

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actually was really the last
thing on my list was, but I

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guess has become the most
culturally relevant and not just

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because it's a news topic, but
because I think generally

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embodies perspective and
philosophy or a clash of

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perspectives and philosophies.
And that's his whole platforming

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argument or debate that's been
going on.

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Now, you know, who can I talk
to?

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Who can I not talk to?
Who should I talk to?

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Who should I not talk to?
To what degree would something

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be considered, you know,
endorsing or pushing back?

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What degree is it not?
And you know, and I and I, and I

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think that rightfully so, by the
way, I actually think that it's

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really important that we have
both sides really pushing their

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perspectives on this issue.
And the reason why I think it's

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important is because I think
that when something becomes a

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hot topic conversation, it
really forces people most of the

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time to be relatively thoughtful
about it.

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Or at least gives you a lot of
information and a lot of context

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to be able to kind of make your
own, to draw your own

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conclusions based on a really,
really it's there's a lot of

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information to pick from.
There's a lot of information to

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choose from.
And, you know, as to whether or

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not you even want to have this
platform in conversation or

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debate or not, you know, and so,
you know, on one hand, people

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will say, well, it's a really
terrible idea to platform people

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that that spread bad or stupid
or hurtful or wrong, you know,

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rhetoric or conversations.
And and you shouldn't even have

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that conversation.
You shouldn't even make it

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available.
You shouldn't even post it

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online.
It's not going to work.

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And then there are the people
that respond that say, well, I

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think that it's important to
talk about these things because

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whether I agree with them or
not, ignoring a topic, ignoring

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a conversation, banning people
from talking about it, as we've

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seen in the last 5-10 years, if
not more, but definitely at

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least the last 5-10 years,
doesn't work.

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Doesn't stop people from really
thinking what they're going to

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think and feeling what they're
going to feel and looking for

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what they're going to find.
You know, I feel like this is

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also kind of the, you know, the
root of the gun control debate

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in a lot of senses in the in
the, in the I, I think in the

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kind of the sense that, you
know, on one hand, someone's

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going to be like, well, listen,
like, you know, here's another

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case of gun violence.
And obviously we're insane to

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have so many guns and so many
weapons available so easily.

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And on the other hand, someone
be like, well, listen, a gun

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itself is amoral.
A gun does not act, People act.

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You know, if someone is and and
so you know what gun control

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laws ostensibly might be make
the most sense is to kind of do

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you know, a mental health
background check, you know, a

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check to see is this person part
of, you know, has this person

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ever been a legitimate threat as
someone that has, you know,

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manifested violence or
encourages violence or supports

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or is mentally unwell?
Is this person bipolar?

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Is this person prone to anxiety
attacks or manic waves or, you

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know, what's this person like?
And then you kind of make a

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decision on a case by case
basis.

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And you know, I'm sure people
could probably say the same

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thing about platforming and the
degree in which that you push

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back, right?
And I don't, I kind of tend to

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and my personal opinion on this
topic is to air on the side of

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have the conversation because I
don't think that anything that

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anyone is going to do is going
to stop the conversation from

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happening.
You know, there's obviously the

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most rampant and the most
relevant example or, you know,

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human manifestation of someone
that has been that's been

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attempted to be cancelled in
every institutional sense

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possible would be a guy like
Nick Fuentes, who literally, I

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believe just has like his rumble
platform.

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You know, like he was banned off
YouTube, banned on Spotify, D

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bank D platformed, kicked out of
I, I believe, either dropped out

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or left college.
But really like no, like he was

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considered toxic for anyone to
touch and no one would host him

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and no one would do anything
with him.

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And what ended up happening was
he found a way to get his idea,

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you know, to get his listeners
to listen and to spread his

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ideas.
And he, you know, it happened,

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quote, UN quote underground, you
know, the same way that the

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hippie movement kind of happened
with underground newspapers and

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you know, you know, informal,
you know, ways of passing around

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information, whether that's
books or music or libraries or

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again, new underground
newspapers and stuff like that.

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As long as you have platforms
like Rumble, as long as you have

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platforms like that that are
committed to ideas like free

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speech, no matter how
institutionalized or no matter

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how quote UN quote deep
platformed someone's going to

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become.
Their ideas don't just disappear

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into a vacuum.
They don't go and they don't

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just go nowhere, especially if
you keep at it for long enough.

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And I mean, Nick Fuentes I think
is late in his late 20s now,

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started this in college.
So anyone that invests A decade

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into anything that they want to
do and into, you know, it

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doesn't have to be politics.
It doesn't have to be a new

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show.
If you if you do what Nick

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Fuentes does for a decade and he
decided that he wanted to do

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real estate or he decided that
he wanted to go into tech, he

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decided that he wanted to do
education, he would be

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enormously successful because
putting that much effort every

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single day for a decade is a
recipe for success no matter

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what.
And So what ends up usually

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happening is these ideas that
are quote, UN quote, deep

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platformed, where no one will
have a conversation with no one

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will rebuke and rebuke or
understand or ask to elaborate

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or ask or force, for example,
Nick to expand on some some

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ideas that he's had.
Without that happening, we have

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a much more dangerous outcome,
potentially dangerous outcome.

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And that would be the infamous
echo chambers.

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And that would be the infamous,
you know, like we need, you

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know, all people.
And I, I think I've talked about

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this.
I don't remember whether it's on

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one of my unpublished solo
episodes or not, but we need

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people, human beings need, need
real time feedback on their

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behaviors, on their ideas, on
their perspective.

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And that's actually one of the
reasons I think that one of the

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issues that we have as a society
today, which hopefully, you

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know, we're on the on the on the
way to course correcting.

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Excuse me, but one of the issues
that we have as a society today,

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as far as I see is or as I see
it, is people are aside, aside

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from the fact it's, it's a huge
issue that people are isolated

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and lonely a lot of times.
It's a big issue that people, a

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lot of people, especially young
people below the age of 30 or 30

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or below, typically do not have
as many friends as they've

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historically had as many social
connections as many in person

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embodied relationships.
And a lot of times these in

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person embodied relationships
are the things that keep us

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honest because we learn through
reading other people's faces,

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through reading other people's
responses, through reading the

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room, you know, through getting
feedback.

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You make a joke and no one
laughs at the joke.

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You put the joke aside, you
know, it's not funny anymore.

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If you make a joke and everyone
laughs and everyone laughs and

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everyone loves it.
And the next thing you know,

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someone else is, you know, is
telling the same joke to their

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friends another time.
And you're like, wow, that was a

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really great joke.
I'm going to keep that up.

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You know, another one was like,
yeah, I don't know about that.

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You know.
So I think that the so, so I

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think that there is not only
enormous value in not doing this

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whole deplatforming thing, I
think that the danger of it is

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that it causes this weird.
The consequence, the what, what,

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what arises from not having
conversations and not

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platforming, especially people
that have huge followers and

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huge followings is there's no
reality check ever.

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There's no, there's no putting
your finger on the pulse and

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being like, oh, shoot.
No one thought, no one thought

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that joke was funny.
No one thought that idea was a

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particularly good idea.
You know, and actually, and

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actually a great example of this
that would never have happened

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had no one ever pushed back or
given anyone a platform was.

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And I was talking to a friend of
mine who a very close friend of

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mine and to keep him anonymous
for now, Although if you,

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although if you listen, I'm sure
he will know that I'm talking

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about him.
You know, we're talking.

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I was obviously Israel has been
an enormous topic recently of

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conversation and it has been
really ripping apart the the

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modern right wing political
coalition.

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But it really kind of manifests
itself everywhere because, you

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know, whether you're into
politics or not, politics impact

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news, politics in politics
impact business, politics impact

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like and and, you know, and for
better or for worse, one way or

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the other, you know, Larry
Ellison buying, you know,

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Paramount and, you know, CBS and
putting Barry Weiss up there.

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Like, yeah, you could say I'm
not interested in politics.

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But there's a very clear
political agenda that is going

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on over there that's in the
world of the bit, in the world

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of business, the world of
entertainment, the world of news

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are all having this, are all
being impacted by politics.

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So on one hand, it is totally
fair to not be interested.

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On the other hand, it's a little
silly to deny the far reaching

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influence that politics have on
everyday life.

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You know, I don't care about
politics.

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I care about my, my, my, my, my
bills.

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Well, if you care about your
bills, then you want to find out

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what's causing your bills to be
so expensive.

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And like, if you don't want to
find out, that's totally fine.

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But that doesn't mean that there
aren't forces that are impacting

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that.
You know, there aren't economic

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strategies and economic, what's
the word for it, policies.

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Thank you.
That are you know that that,

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that, that, that are affecting
and that are having an impact on

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on the cost of food or gas or
whatever it is.

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So so you know, and this is what
conversation has really been

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having.
It has really been for the last

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couple of years, probably, you
know, since October 7th really

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has been just absolutely
enormous.

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It's just been swallowing up
everything, you know, and, and

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everything falls under this
conversation now JFK and Epstein

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and foreign policy and wars and
and Middle East policy and I

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mean everything.
So, you know, so it's become a

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convert, a huge conversation and
and one of the prominent anti

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Israel voices are critical of
Israel voices that's come up.

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I don't want to say anti Israel,
but critical of Israel's

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policies and behavior as a
country is Dave Smith.

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And he recently had to a couple
of really great debates.

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One with the trigonometry
podcast, which was I think 2 1/2

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three hours, which is really,
really excellent.

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And yet another really long form
on with Coleman Hughes, who and

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00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,320
he was really great.
Now I've been listening to Dave

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00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,600
Smith because it happens to be
that first of all, I found him

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to be a really, really
persuasive and dynamic speaker

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00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,920
debater.
I like a lot of his, I, I think

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that a lot of his ideas about
policy, economic policy, even

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00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,200
like social ideas.
I, I, I, I tend to think they're

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00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,480
pretty good usually.
And I really do like the general

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00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,800
anti war perspective that he's
pretty consistent about across

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00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,160
the board.
He's actually almost, he's

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00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,040
extremely consistent about
across the board.

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That's actually what people find
so challenging about debating

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00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,960
with him is that he has this the
same moral standard for everyone

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00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,640
and everything.
And he's completely consistent

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00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,280
with it with this idea.
And the the issue that people

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00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,800
take with it is that they say
it's not realistic.

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00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,800
And his argument is I don't care
whether it's realistic or not.

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00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,880
Let's, let's keep that as the
yardstick that we're going to

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00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,880
measure by civilian casualties,
bad war only if we absolutely

241
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,000
need it.
Find another way to figure out

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00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,000
the to resolve your problem
without blowing up civilians.

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00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,720
Doesn't make a difference
whether it's in Israel or

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00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,640
Lebanon or Syria or America or
Iran or Iraq.

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00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,280
He has the same policy.
He has the same perspective

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00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,000
about everything.
But, you know, and and and and

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00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,960
and he is extremely harsh on
Israel and their influence, you

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00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,480
know, especially with their
historical entanglement with the

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00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,360
military industrial complex,
Republicans from the early 2000s

250
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,200
in America.
And he has a couple of really

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00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,640
great quotes, you know, that
he's brought up.

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And like, you know, he said,
well, this guy who was a

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00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,680
four-star general, and I don't
want to, you know, you should go

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00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,440
and listen to the podcast if you
haven't heard it.

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00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,480
It's his debate with Coleman
Hughes on Coleman Hughes's

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00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,040
podcast was really, really great
again.

257
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But Coleman Hughes says, well,
listen, there's no, you know,

258
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And so I thought that was a
really great point.

259
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,120
He brought up the point with
Coleman.

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And I thought, and I've heard
him say this, you know, with

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00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,480
Douglas Murray, and I've heard
them say this in other

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conversations.
And Coleman Hughes was able to

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00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,120
do his homework and is able to
do research it and was able to

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00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,480
appropriately push back and be
like, hey, man, like there's no

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00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,040
actual record of this.
There's like a side conversation

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00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,320
he was having with someone else.
You can't tell me that entire

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00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:05,200
foreign policy is going to be
based on, you know what, you

268
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,960
know, like a little psychotic.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

269
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,000
But like that's not good enough
to like point all the problems

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00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,880
of a country on another country
on a couple of like, you know,

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00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,480
off the record, you know,
chitchat conversations.

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00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:24,800
And that if Coleman had not made
that, had not had the debate

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00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,000
with Dave Smith and had not made
the time to have a conversation

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00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,800
with him and quote UN quote,
platform him and let him make

275
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,360
it, make his points, though, I
would never have realized that

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00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,960
that was the context of the
conversation.

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00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,240
And I never would have
understood that.

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00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:47,520
And and so now by embracing
these ideas and now by embracing

279
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,680
a conversation and preparing
yourself for a debate and

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00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,640
listening to the points that
other people make and looking

281
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,720
into them and responding to
them, sometimes you win and

282
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,520
sometimes you don't.
And sometimes your ideas are

283
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,720
really great and sometimes
they're not.

284
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,440
So you know, there are plenty of
points that they've made that

285
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,560
were great.
There are plenty of points that

286
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,480
Coleman made that were great.
And the same thing happened with

287
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,680
the Trigonometry podcast.
I think that overall, generally

288
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,359
speaking, these long form, multi
hour conversations, debates,

289
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,079
podcasts, whatever you want to
call them, they are good.

290
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,839
Like they do lead to generally
really good responses.

291
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,599
And the only times that people
don't like them and the people

292
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,320
don't respond well to them is
typically when they feel like

293
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,200
they've lost.
I mean, I think, I imagine, you

294
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,000
know, if, if, if, if everyone
walked away from that, you know,

295
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,320
and I don't know.
So I think that the platform and

296
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,040
conversation is one that's kind
of over in the sense that I

297
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,240
think that the popular consensus
and the overall impact that's

298
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,360
made by these long form debates
and you watch them and

299
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:54,400
especially now, I mean, it's
cool.

300
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,040
Like you could really track how
many people are watching these

301
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,720
and viewing these and how
relevant they are.

302
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,360
I actually would make a really
strong case that the clips that

303
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,080
we watch of these debates are
way worse than actually watching

304
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,440
the debates themselves.
And that's because, again, the

305
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,600
clips are always subject to
nitpicking or always subject to

306
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,320
changing or removing or
reframing context.

307
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,360
Terrible, terrible, terrible
idea in my opinion.

308
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,120
And you know, you have these two
and a half hour debate.

309
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,240
If you watch a if someone posts
a minute and 15 second clip of a

310
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,200
three hour debate on Twitter or
on Instagram or on TikTok and

311
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,960
like says, oh, dunks on him, you
almost are.

312
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,040
You could be you could bet you
go to the bank, you know, seven

313
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:43,480
days a week and passion knowing
that it's probably context less

314
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,320
so that.
So I think that the platform of

315
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:55,320
conversation should really just
be, hey, you are getting a lot

316
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,240
of listeners, you are having a
big impact.

317
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:04,240
Your ideas are something to be
acknowledged whether you agree

318
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,520
with them or not.
They're ideas that are obviously

319
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,360
making some kind of impact and
influence.

320
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,080
Let's talk about them, let's
see.

321
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,880
And by the way, and also and
also depends on who the debater

322
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,320
is and how the conversation
goes.

323
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,440
You know, like a Piers Morgan
show tends to be real sloppy,

324
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,720
real messy of when yelling at
each other, yelling over one

325
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,080
another.
OK, fine.

326
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,080
Like that's a certain that's got
a certain I and I would

327
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:31,800
personally call it a little bit
of more entertainment focus as

328
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,840
opposed to contact to content
focused.

329
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,400
You know, conversations like
it's more about entertainment

330
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,600
factor and yelling and shock and
and, you know, kind of getting

331
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800
those like clicks.
But then you have like the Lex

332
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,360
Friedman debate.
So you have the again, you know,

333
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,240
like the debates that Rogan will
host or that, you know, people

334
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,240
having good faith one-on-one or
whatever it is.

335
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,120
And those really, really, really
tend to just like be great.

336
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,200
And I think even with like Nick
Fuentes, right, Like there's two

337
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,400
cases on both Tucker Carlson and
with Dave Smith where Dave

338
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,760
Smith, you know, the famous
thing about Nick Fuentes, the

339
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,480
Holocaust denier, Holocaust
denier.

340
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,760
And then Dave Smith said, dude,
like, dude, what's your story?

341
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,440
And like, do you really not
believe that like 6,000,000 Jews

342
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,520
were killed?
He's like, I don't know, maybe

343
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:16,920
it's an exaggeration.
It's like, dude, I don't think

344
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,720
it's an exaggeration.
He's like, yeah, OK, I'm not

345
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,840
really going to like, you know,
fight about that.

346
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:21,960
That's not a hill I'm going to
die on.

347
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:26,000
So like in just that
conversation, in just having,

348
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,040
just saying, hey, man.
Do you really think that and

349
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,600
like really confronting an idea,
you're forced, like someone in

350
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,920
Nick Funton's position or
someone in Dave Smith's position

351
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,360
or someone in anyone's position,
when you're generally confronted

352
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,120
with an idea that you are not
100% certain about or confident

353
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,600
in, you're probably going to
leave behind.

354
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,080
Because hey, I'm not really, I'm
not really willing to let my

355
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,320
whole reputation collapse based
on this hot take that I want to

356
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,760
have.
But I don't really have all

357
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,000
fleshed out, you know, and the
same thing with Taco Carlson

358
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,400
when he was talking to Nick
Fuentes and pushed back to him

359
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,760
about, you know, the Jews.
And he says, listen, if you have

360
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,120
a problem with the state, with
the with the way that particular

361
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,000
individuals or a particular
government behaves, hold the

362
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,520
government accountable, hold the
particular people accountable.

363
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,320
But we don't.
But but you know, he says as

364
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,120
Christians, you don't believe in
in in collective punishment.

365
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,200
And Nick Fuentes said literally
no choice.

366
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,120
But he's like, yeah, that's a
good point.

367
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,040
You know, So like, you know,
again, does Nick Fontes really

368
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,840
believe this?
Maybe, maybe not.

369
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:32,440
But does his several million
followers that I'm sure are

370
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,720
flocking to see, hey, wow, Nick
finally is on Tucker Carlson's

371
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,800
Tucker Carlson show.
Hey, look, wow.

372
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,760
Nick Fontes is, is, is debating,
is having a conversation with

373
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,880
Dave Smith for like 3 hours.
It's going to be great.

374
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,640
And they go listen to it and
then they hear the pushback and

375
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,560
then they hear Nick say, yeah, I
don't know if I really believe

376
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:50,960
that.
You know, like I, I, I, yeah, I

377
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,240
don't, I can't really argue with
that.

378
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,440
Think about the impact it has on
those millions of people,

379
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,040
everyone that just said the
Holocaust was a fake, the

380
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,680
Holocaust wasn't real.
And now and now when push comes

381
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,640
to shove and you make when you
when you have a debate with

382
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,640
someone that's really prepared,
like this documentation and you

383
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,480
really prepare to, you know,
really slug it out, you're not

384
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,560
really willing to do it the same
way.

385
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,720
Because, yeah, it's one thing
to, you know, like what I'm

386
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,200
doing right now, I'm spewing to
a camera, you know, I'm talking

387
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,720
to.
I'm talking to an audience that

388
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,920
will listen to this either live
or at another time, like right

389
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,480
after I post this or in six
months or in five years from

390
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,720
now, someone's going to listen
to this and someone could

391
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,680
confront me on the ideas that
I'm talking about today.

392
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,480
And I make fault.
I mean, I don't think I will

393
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,800
because I think that again, like
I'm trying to present an idea

394
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,520
and present tangible anecdotes
and cases in which those ideas

395
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,440
are supported, you know?
But I will.

396
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:51,240
I'm certainly not beyond beyond
saying ideas that are not

397
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,080
completely formed, you know,
fully formed.

398
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,760
And with that, I'm going to top
in jump into the next topic.

399
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,480
One second I'm back The next
thing I wanted to talk about.

400
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,240
If you hear a little noise in
the background, it's because I

401
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,800
got my 6 month old over here who
woke up from a nap and she does

402
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,320
not want to go back to lato.
She's going to go back to sleep.

403
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,480
But yeah, so that's that's
really my that's really my take

404
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,400
on this.
I think that more conversations

405
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,880
are good.
I think more debates are good.

406
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,560
I think that the amount of good
that comes out of a trigonometry

407
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,280
slash Coleman Hughes kind of
debate.

408
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,640
That's the kind of good that we
really need to really to really

409
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,800
kind of get people a little bit
more on the same page with one

410
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,000
another.
Because most, I think that most

411
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:44,680
of, of vehement disagreement and
the most aggressive or harsh

412
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,960
debates come from places where
you don't understand the other

413
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,400
person.
You can't understand the other

414
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,040
person and so just doesn't make
any sense and doesn't align at

415
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,800
all with any kind of form of
reality to you.

416
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,960
And once you can understand that
person, even if you don't agree,

417
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440
at least it's a reality that you
could understand that how it

418
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,560
exists and how it, you know,
permeates.

419
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,280
And whether it's for you or not,
or whether you agree or not, at

420
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,320
least you guys could coexist in
the same, you know, same world

421
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,080
and hopefully get along and
hopefully, you know, not being

422
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,040
one of the, you know, not
everything has to be so

423
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:22,520
polarizing and divisive.
So that being said, you know,

424
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,800
the other topic I really wanted
to talk about that I actually

425
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,560
did record a previous episode
about, but I think, but I think

426
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:37,600
is really, really important is
the idea of of the institutional

427
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:46,520
breakdown and whether or not to,
you know, when there's a

428
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,080
breakdown in institutions,
right?

429
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,960
When there's a breakdown in,
let's say, trust in news, for

430
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,880
example, which is obviously
extremely relevant for the last

431
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,680
decade, if not more.
There's two ways that you can

432
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,360
approach obviously trying to
correct it and you can either,

433
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:12,920
you can either try to recapture
the institution and recorrect it

434
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,160
and, you know, and, and, and
reset the course of where it's

435
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:22,960
heading, or you can create a new
alternative, you know, And so in

436
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,440
the most relevant example and
the most pop example in, in our

437
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,640
culture today would be obviously
the rise of podcasts as a form

438
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,600
of alternative information.
You know, where someone like

439
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,000
Danny Jones who would never get
his own show, he does, you know,

440
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,600
a lot of extraterrestrial,
excuse me, excuse me,

441
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,040
extraterrestrial or ancient
civilizations or you know, a lot

442
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,960
of architecture archaeology,
excuse me, and stuff like that.

443
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,400
He has a three hour podcast a
couple of times a week that goes

444
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,520
that goes deep diving into a lot
of these ideas.

445
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,000
And even if none of them are
conclusive or even if you don't

446
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,360
like them or agree with them,
you can learn a lot that is just

447
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:14,080
not available.
And so even if the pieces that

448
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,160
you pick up, you know, you have
imagine, I mean, you know, the

449
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,760
way that I like to think about
it is that you have a puzzle and

450
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,200
the news puts the puzzle pieces
together for you and then the

451
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,320
narrative collapses and then all
the puzzle pieces are on the

452
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,680
floor again.
You pick them up and you try to

453
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,680
figure out what to do with them
and what the picture really

454
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,360
supposed to look like because
the first picture didn't look

455
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:37,000
great.
The next thing that you can do

456
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,800
is try to figure out a new
picture that comes up.

457
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,840
But you could at least
acknowledge along the way, even

458
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,440
if the new picture that comes up
is not a great, is not the right

459
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,520
picture, you could say, hey, but
we still know that we have these

460
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,720
pieces around.
And I think it's really

461
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,720
important to be able to have
available, you know, when when

462
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,880
you have conversations with
Huberman, when you have

463
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:04,000
conversations with Lex Friedman.
Yeah, then and, and, and these

464
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,760
conversations would never happen
in a may, or probably would not

465
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760
happen in a classroom setting,
would not happen in a news story

466
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,120
or not happen in an interview
done by Fox or CNN or something

467
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,000
like that.
Then these are alternative

468
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,360
perspectives that are coming up
that are replacing the, the, the

469
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,880
larger problem at hand, which is
that they're gatekeepers and the

470
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,320
gatekeeper.
And, and, and again, this also,

471
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,400
I mean, this is also has to do
with the idea of who's to say

472
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,240
what ideas are allowed or not,
you know?

473
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,600
And so ideas are going to kind
of make their way into, into

474
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,640
reality one way or the other, no
matter how much you try to hold

475
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,080
them down.
So what do we do right?

476
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840
And I actually think that you
kind of have to try to do both.

477
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,000
I think that the total
destruction of institutions is a

478
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,120
big problem because it really
does leave people with nowhere

479
00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,480
to turn as far as trust goes.
And it leaves people without any

480
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,160
kind of tangible idea as to
where in like what is considered

481
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,600
true or reliable or believable.
And, you know, so I think it is

482
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,920
important to kind of have at
least an attempt at recapturing

483
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,800
a broken institution.
On the other hand, I think that

484
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,800
long term, the issues that
caused that institution to, you

485
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:29,160
know, decay and to fall apart,
those those problems typically

486
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,360
are human problems.
And we have to try to find and

487
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,840
we have to by observing human
nature and understanding human

488
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,320
nature, we have to be able to
try to come up with a little bit

489
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,880
of a better system than the one
that we have.

490
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,440
And you know, and for, and
what's cool about podcasts, for

491
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,240
example, is that it really is a
meritocracy in the sense that

492
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,760
not that in the sense that no
one's going to find you unless

493
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,080
you're really good.
And there's so many podcasts out

494
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,880
there.
There's there's so many.

495
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,360
I mean, there's millions and
millions of podcasts out there.

496
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,280
How does anyone succeed?
The only way you can succeed, I

497
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,240
mean, there's a couple ways to
succeed.

498
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,400
It's not true that you could,
you could kind of force your way

499
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,840
to the top, but you can always
tell whether it's manufactured

500
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,880
and they don't really, really
stay around very long.

501
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,400
Or you could again, with, you
know, with merit, with ideas,

502
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,080
with conversation, with hard
work, with homework, You know,

503
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,640
you come up with something that
is true, enticing, exciting,

504
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,040
nuanced and educational for
people and they're going to dive

505
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,200
right into it.
And, and then, and you see that

506
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,160
the people that are at the top
of the charts, their philosophy

507
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,160
is that they're great humans a
lot of times that their, that

508
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,360
their humanity tends to shine.
And the humanity directs their

509
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,920
curiosity and directs their
projects and directs their

510
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,200
passions.
And, and the combination of

511
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,280
humanity and hard work leads to
some of the greatest people in

512
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,960
the world, some of the greatest
scientists and athletes and

513
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:05,160
doctors and engineers and
physicians to and researchers to

514
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,880
want to participate in this
really good idea structure.

515
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,200
So I think that institutions are
important.

516
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,560
I think that as time goes on,
they obviously need to change

517
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,400
and do change.
I think that the same reason

518
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,200
why, you know, the same way that
we have the printing press and

519
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:24,200
then the Internet, the same way
that we had that one evolved

520
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,800
into the next.
There's always going to be

521
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,520
evolution of these kind of
concepts.

522
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,680
And I'm back.
I'm sorry I had to put the

523
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,640
little girl down.
And it seems to me just

524
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,800
continuing in the same train of
thought that we listen, we need

525
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,000
institutions because I think
people like the idea of

526
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:51,280
security.
I think that people like the

527
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,080
idea of someone taking care of
them.

528
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,440
People like comfort.
People are willing to trade

529
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,200
almost almost anything for
comfort.

530
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,280
And that's what we really crave,
right?

531
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,000
When you want all the money in
the world, what does that really

532
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,720
mean when someone desires money,
When someone desires a bigger

533
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,760
house, when someone desires, you
know, the, you know, generally

534
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,120
the things that we're looking
out for are things that provide

535
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,080
us ultimately comfort and
protection and that we don't

536
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,520
have to worry about threats and
we kind of just want to be free

537
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,160
to live our own lives.
The problem, I think, becomes

538
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,440
that in order to achieve a
certain level of comfort, you

539
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,640
have to sacrifice a certain
level of independence and

540
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,480
individuality.
And that could, and that's a

541
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,360
good, that's in some cases a
good thing.

542
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,280
For example, when you're driving
the street and everyone comes to

543
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,680
the same conclusion that hey,
we're going to abide by the laws

544
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,680
of traffic, that when there's a
sign that says stop and there's

545
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,320
four of them, then everyone
stops and everyone takes turns

546
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,920
going whoever got there first.
That's an important society.

547
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,840
OK, Yeah, you're giving up a
freedom, but you're doing it so

548
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,800
that you don't have X amount of
X amount more car accidents

549
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,200
every year.
When you agree to abide by a

550
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,680
speed limit, it's because if
you're driving in a place that

551
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,960
is congested and has a certain
amount of people that are

552
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,120
crossing on foot or going to
shops or foot traffic or real

553
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,560
traffic, then there a lot more
can happen that you don't see.

554
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,880
And so we're all agreed together
collectively to limit some of

555
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,520
our freedoms and how fast we're
going to go in a car for the

556
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,640
sake of security.
But how far are you willing to

557
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,400
go with that, you know, and to
what extent do you go?

558
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,000
And, and that that is and you
know, and so that is the

559
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:38,800
importance of having two parties
or two perspectives.

560
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,280
You know, when you live, when
you loosely say liberal or

561
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,400
conservative, what you're really
saying is how strict are we

562
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,240
going to be about maintaining
the rules that we currently all

563
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,640
are willing to play by?
And do we need more rules or do

564
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,280
we need less rules?
And let's see as as a society

565
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,880
how we're doing.
And if we do need more rules,

566
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,080
then we should definitely
implement that.

567
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,920
If we need less rules, we should
definitely implement that.

568
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:12,000
We rarely go from how,
unfortunately, we really go from

569
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,960
having more rules to having less
rules as time goes on.

570
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,160
And part of the reason why is
because when people get more

571
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,560
rules, when there's more rules,
there's more power.

572
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,800
When there's more regulation,
more people have control over

573
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,600
what other people can or can't
do.

574
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,200
And that's something that in
human nature is inherently

575
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,000
addicting.
It's something that is

576
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,440
extremely, extremely powerful
because if people do what you

577
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,440
say, then you control resources,
you control potential, you

578
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,720
control how much safety or not
you have because other people

579
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,840
are willing to bend to you.
So the desire for power is

580
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,440
really the desire to control, or
at least a portion of it exists

581
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,600
as a desire to control
resources.

582
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,400
And that could be resources as
in money, or it could be

583
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,840
resources as in public opinion.
That could be resources.

584
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,120
And it's really important that I
get validated and, you know,

585
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,440
it's really important that
people like me.

586
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,640
I think people think highly of
me.

587
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,480
So I was reading, I'm reading
right now actually a book called

588
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,960
Creativity, Inc written by Ed
Catmull, who is The Who is the

589
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,840
president of Pixar for many,
many, many years.

590
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:25,080
And I actually emailed him try
to get him on the podcast.

591
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,760
I have to give him a couple of
follow-ups and see if he could,

592
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,719
if he if I could get him, but I
would, it would be such an honor

593
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,719
to talk to him.
But he wrote this book called

594
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,440
Creativity, Inc.
And I actually, you know, it's

595
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,719
one of the many books that I
kind of discard.

596
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,719
I picked up when I was in high
school or college and discarded

597
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,600
because I didn't see the value
because I was missing a lot of

598
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:54,080
context and knowledge.
And now, now I'm turning 30 in

599
00:34:54,080 --> 00:35:00,640
less than a month, December 7th.
Today is November 18th and, and

600
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,040
I have a lot more context.
And so I picked the book back up

601
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,760
a couple weeks ago and I've been
inhaling it.

602
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,560
I've been flying through it.
And one of the things that he

603
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,760
talks about, one of the goals of
the book is how to try to

604
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,760
create, to maintain a creative
environment in a very, you know,

605
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,880
in a business or in a corporate
world.

606
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,400
And it's a really, really
interesting conversation and

607
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:32,680
book.
There's 1 chapter that talks

608
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,640
specifically about something
called the baby and the beast.

609
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:42,680
And I want to get into the beast
is basically corporate

610
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,440
interests, interests and the
need to make money and to create

611
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,160
capital and the baby.
And he actually, I think he

612
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,800
calls it the ugly baby because
the ugly baby is filled with

613
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,360
potential is like not fully
formed yet, but it has all the

614
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,320
seedlings and all the potential
for like to really, really be

615
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,000
something great, right?
And that's what people really

616
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,840
always find so beautiful and so
awesome about babies in general

617
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,880
is the notion that, hey, there's
so much hope this kid could turn

618
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,440
out to be really, really
anything.

619
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,360
And so he said that, you know,
so a very frequent part of and

620
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,920
he talks about the movie, the
film industry and the movie

621
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,960
making process like this, right?
You got corporate companies that

622
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,440
care about the bottom dollar.
You have the the studios and the

623
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,920
corporations and the banks and,
and the marketing teams and

624
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,240
whoever it is.
And they all care about this and

625
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:33,520
they all care about the quality.
But they care more about the

626
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,400
amount of money they make
because they know that even if

627
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,520
they make a great piece of art
or a great piece of work, if it

628
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,720
doesn't sell, then it doesn't
really help anyone.

629
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,760
And so light.
So life and business, he says,

630
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,920
is about balancing the beast is
always is never satisfied, is

631
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,080
always, always hungry.
And you know, and, and, and

632
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,880
actually, I think that, and I've
talked about this in a couple of

633
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,200
a couple of episodes, one with
John Perkins, economic hitman,

634
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,160
one with a couple of with
Lawrence White, the economist

635
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,600
and the professor who's actually
in England right now.

636
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,680
I think he just retired and he's
doing some work in England now.

637
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,200
But one of the things that we
talked about is the fact that

638
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:21,080
when our quarterly earnings
system puts an enormous pressure

639
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,520
on companies to show everyone at
all times how they're always

640
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,480
making money.
And sometimes a good business

641
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,480
plan, I mean, more than
sometimes, very, very often a

642
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,640
good business plan takes more
than 1/4 to implement,

643
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,760
especially when you're a
business conglomerate.

644
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,040
The size of Disney, the size of
Apple, the size of Amazon, the

645
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,960
size of Netflix, right?
You're like, Oh my God, like,

646
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,040
yeah, how, how, how, how do you
ever, you know, like you do need

647
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,760
to keep on making these
decisions that keep on bringing

648
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,240
money in.
And, and each and, and, and

649
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:55,840
every quarter the expectations
go up dramatically.

650
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,240
And every year the expectations
go up.

651
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,800
And, you know, and, and the
whole notion of and, and so you

652
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,160
become less and less inclined to
take care of this ugly baby

653
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,480
because after all, it's just a
baby and it kind of is ugly.

654
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,360
And we do have bills to pay now.
So, you know, let's let's just

655
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,320
kill the baby, not actually kill
any babies, but kill this really

656
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,880
great idea with a lot of
potential and not tend to and

657
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,400
not help it come to life and not
see that you can try and give it

658
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,480
an education and see what it has
a natural proclivity towards.

659
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,200
You're just throwing it out
because, right, listen, I

660
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,040
understand that you got to do
it, but you want to do it.

661
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,440
But there is just not enough
money.

662
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,880
There is just sorry, we just
need to make money right now.

663
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:48,840
And that is a huge issue as far
as you know, our general

664
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:56,480
perspective goes, which is I
don't have time to take care of

665
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,440
these cute little ideas.
I don't have time to be risky.

666
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,560
I don't have time to, or I don't
have the effort or I don't have

667
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,880
enough resources to pursue
something meaningful, something

668
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,920
pat, something of that,
something I'm passionate about

669
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,640
on the side.
There's just not the means to

670
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,480
it.
And the problem is that

671
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,480
philosophy is really, really
difficult to argue with because

672
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,920
you can't say you're wrong,
right?

673
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,520
There is always things you can
do to become more secure.

674
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,240
There are always things you can
do there.

675
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,920
There are always things you can
do to become more secure.

676
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,920
There are always things that
expenses that are coming up in

677
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040
your life and unexpected things.
And you know, Charlie Kirk used

678
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,120
to say, and I was not a huge
fan, but when, and I never

679
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,160
actually really even listened to
him while he was alive.

680
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,560
One of the one of the things
that I saw going around that he

681
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,760
was always emphasizing was have
more kids than you can afford.

682
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,000
And one of the reasons I would
imagine one of the rationalities

683
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,120
is you're never going to be
ready for these kind of things.

684
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,840
Like if it comes down to like,
hey, I want to wait till I make

685
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,400
100% ready that I'm going to be
like 100% prepared for a

686
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,680
commitment to another human
being.

687
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,440
Get married.
It's never going to happen.

688
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Now, I'll tell you right now,
you know it's never going to

689
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,200
happen.
You are never going to be 100%

690
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,000
confident.
You are never going to go into

691
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,320
the day of your wedding being
100% certain that this is the

692
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,000
person you're going to spend the
rest of your life with.

693
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,320
Unequivocally, nothing can go
wrong.

694
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,000
There's always risk.
There's always risk.

695
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,720
And yeah, you want to minimize,
minimalize it, that's fine.

696
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,440
But if you're going to
minimalize it, the risk to the

697
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,000
point that you're not letting
any potential come through,

698
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,800
you're not letting this ugly
baby, you're not taking care of

699
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,840
this ugly baby in your life.
Everyone's got ugly babies.

700
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,040
There's an ugly baby of your
passion.

701
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,520
There's an ugly baby of a side
project.

702
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,640
There's an ugly baby of a
relationship that you always

703
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,120
wanted to pursue that you never
did.

704
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,960
Or, you know, I kind of want to
go out and meet new people.

705
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,160
And, you know, maybe I'll go to,
like, a brewery or meet someone

706
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,040
new or go to cigar shop and say
hello to someone.

707
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,280
But it's late.
I'm tired.

708
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,600
It got, you know, daylight
savings and it gets darker

709
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:54,840
earlier.
And I'm so tired.

710
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,840
And I worked so hard today.
No one's telling you that those

711
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,240
things that you're saying aren't
true and they are true, which is

712
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,280
why there's such good arguments
is why it's so easy to get away

713
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,280
with.
But when we as when we become a

714
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,320
world of people that ignore
these babies.

715
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,000
When you become a world without
passion, without excitement,

716
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,040
without risk, without, without
the potential to have

717
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,280
conversations that are
unpleasant and to pursue jobs

718
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,200
and and ideas and podcasts and
creative expressions that are

719
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,360
not guaranteed to work and don't
necessarily listen.

720
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,320
I mean, even from a business
perspective, you know, my, my,

721
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,840
my, my dad's business that I,
that I work and I work with him.

722
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,160
It's been around for 25 years.
He's put six kids through

723
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:46,640
Orthodox Jewish private school.
And, you know, and I have no

724
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,440
idea how he did it.
I have no idea what he did, how

725
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,040
he did it.
My dad's, I mean, both my

726
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,400
parents are heroes as far as I'm
concerned, but you know, my dad

727
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,080
in this particular way as an
economic caregiver, which is so

728
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,600
not relatable to so many young
men in today's world, that my

729
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,040
dad, you know, that he's that he
founded a value and not only a

730
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,840
value and necessity to pay for
his kids tuition and to put them

731
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,520
through higher education and to
put them through school.

732
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,960
Whether you know, regardless of
what he personally thought of it

733
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,000
himself because he just thought
it was going to be what's best

734
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:23,200
for his family.
He had a business that has been

735
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,280
around for 25 years.
He and I recently went to get,

736
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,840
went to open a line of credit
and you know, and got declined

737
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,760
because we didn't have, I think
the bank in order to give us

738
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,360
$50,000 of credit, we had to
have at least $25,000 and

739
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,160
$50,000 in cash in our bank
account at that particular

740
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,400
moment.
Regardless of the business

741
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,920
history, regardless of how much
revenue we did, how much

742
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,960
business we did, regardless of
what assets and inventory we

743
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,040
have, regardless of all that
sorry, you know, there is so

744
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,080
little appetite, there's so
little room for risk.

745
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,880
And by the way, and and you
can't understand why there's why

746
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,280
risk makes people nauseous,
because the way that the way

747
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,560
that it's perceived risk led to
the 2008 crash risk led to

748
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:14,720
the.com bubble crash risk, you
know, but that's not risk.

749
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,560
That was outright corruption.
That was outright bad policy.

750
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,520
And there was, and the
consequence of bad policy was

751
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,640
safer policy.
But there's still a whole group

752
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,000
of people, a lot of people that
weren't doing anything wrong

753
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,360
either way.
And you know, we're totally

754
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,160
fine.
And now life and now, you know,

755
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,320
life becomes almost necessarily
more complicated and more

756
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,560
difficult and becomes more
restrictive.

757
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:45,280
The safe, the safer we force,
the safer we vote, I guess.

758
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,160
And you know, everyone says, you
know, you get the government,

759
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,320
you deserve that.
If we become so addicted to

760
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,800
safety, we become so addicted to
comfort, and we become so

761
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,800
addicted to feeding the beast as
opposed to protecting the ugly

762
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,440
baby, then we're going to live
in a society that doesn't take

763
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,320
risks.
And we don't take risks

764
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,880
socially, you know,
relationships are dropping, like

765
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,160
the rate of relationships are
dropping like crazy people.

766
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,120
People do not have as many
friends as before.

767
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,640
People do not feel connected.
People feel like there's less

768
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,640
opportunity now than before.
Opportunity comes from someone

769
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,680
taking risk.
You know, the reason why I have

770
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,320
a job with my dad, it's because
my dad took a risk.

771
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,600
The reason why hopefully in
years from now I'll be able to

772
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,600
support my family with the
podcast is because I'm taking a

773
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,640
risk by doing this.
This, this might never turn into

774
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,840
anything.
I might be spending hours and

775
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,600
hours and hours of my life and
weekends and giving up time with

776
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,120
my kids and time that I could
have spent investing in another

777
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,280
business or in sales or in my
in, in, in my own learning or

778
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,640
reading or or teaching my, my
teaching career.

779
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,480
I'm risk there.
There is significant risk to

780
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,000
what I'm doing right now.
Now it's, it's risk of time.

781
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,560
It's not a financial risk, it's
risk and investment, but time

782
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,840
and investment are some of the
most, you know, effort are the

783
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,240
most important things that we
have.

784
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,560
You know, I mean, that's what
we, we only have X amount of

785
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,920
years of our lives and and of
those X amount of years of our

786
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,080
lives, we're only capable of
being productive for a certain

787
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,240
portion of that time.
And if most of my effort, most

788
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:21,240
of my awakened conscious effort
is going towards making this as

789
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,520
great of a podcast as it could
be, then that's enormous risk

790
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,480
that I'm taking on, right?
And hopefully the reward will be

791
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,000
that someone else will be will
have opportunity as a

792
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,480
consequence of that.
So I guess this is a very

793
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,000
roundabout way of saying that I
think that as a world, we have

794
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,760
to become, especially as
Americans and as as a country,

795
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,720
we got to become, we got to open
up our appetite for risk again,

796
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,360
We got to open up our appetite
for trying new things.

797
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,040
And listen, I'm not a very, I'm
a pretty conservative guy when

798
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:59,320
it comes to resources, right?
Like I do like, I don't want to

799
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,640
sacrifice.
I do like a certain level of

800
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,440
comfort.
You know, I'm not giving up my

801
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,920
job full time because I do need
to know that X amount of money

802
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,760
is coming in every month.
I'm not giving, you know,

803
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,120
there's certain things that I do
value.

804
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,280
You know, I own a home.
I could have put, you know, the

805
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,920
money I put on my down payment
in my house into, into another

806
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,800
investment and try to make money
on that.

807
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,760
But I think it's important for
me to have a home.

808
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,640
You know, it's all more
conservative in the sense that

809
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,520
like, hey, this, I, I prefer
that stability, but I think we

810
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,240
need a welcome potential failure
and potential risk.

811
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:39,560
And I think that we, when
someone says that they're trying

812
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,640
something new, that we shouldn't
degrade that or laugh at that

813
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,720
and we should try to support it.
And, you know, and again, and

814
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,600
with the, as far as
conversations go, someone has a

815
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,800
idea of a business and it sounds
stupid or it sounds dumb.

816
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,280
I don't think it's the meanest
thing in a nice, in a nice way

817
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,680
to say to someone, you know,
what about this or you have you

818
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,560
thought about that or why don't
you try and you know, like, what

819
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,280
about this problem?
How would you go about resolving

820
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,920
it?
And a lot of times you're doing

821
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,040
that person, especially if you
present it to them in a nice

822
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,120
regular way, you're doing them
one of the biggest favors you

823
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,360
could ever do them, which is
you're force them to re examine

824
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,520
ideas and to solidify them and
strengthen them.

825
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,960
So to summarize, I guess the
platforming to me is a little

826
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,160
bit of a silly word and concept
that ultimately ends up being

827
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:34,160
dangerous and harmful.
Have more conversations, bad

828
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,760
ideas get just swept up, you
know, in the wind and tossed

829
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,640
away and good ideas and the
ideas that at least have more

830
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:46,840
merit are the ones that stick
around more baby and the beast.

831
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,880
There's always going to be the
side of us that needs the

832
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,920
comfort and to provide and to
and to, you know, create and

833
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,200
produce value.
But we can't forget about the

834
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,880
potential of tomorrow and the
potential of, of this quote UN

835
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,720
quote ugly baby that we don't
know what it's going to look

836
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:05,400
like.
But with our help and by paying

837
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,680
attention to it, we could
actually see how you know what

838
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,320
it's good at and what it could
grow at and turn into.

839
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,680
And so we need to find a balance
between the two of them.

840
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,960
Work a full time job.
I'm not saying don't get don't

841
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,840
take on responsibilities, but
pursue a passion, pursue

842
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,120
something that makes you more
than an accountant, something

843
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,000
that makes you more than an
investment banker, someone that

844
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,240
makes something that makes you
more than a teacher.

845
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,440
What makes you more than what?
You than what?

846
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,760
Than what your six hours, 7
hours, 9 hours, 10 hours a day

847
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,840
job is same thing with
relationships, same thing with

848
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,880
family.
You know, you could be safe, you

849
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,920
could be at home.
It's always easier, it's always

850
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,320
cheaper.
But what does what does it

851
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,240
really get you?
You know, so, and I think I'm

852
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:53,200
going to call it here and I'm
actually a little dry on the

853
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,480
podcast pipeline at the moment
unless and today I hope to do a

854
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,920
lot of work into spending time
into getting some more, more

855
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,840
guests for you guys.
But for now, I will see you when

856
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,800
I see you all.
Bye everyone.