#131: Mike Oppenheim / The 27 Club / Teacher v Administrator / Underground Communities / China

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.

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We're live, Mike.
Happy new year, man.

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We're going to close up the
year.

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The great episode.
I'm really excited about this.

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Awesome.
Me too.

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So I, I mean, obviously I, we
were just talking, I just did

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your show a couple weeks ago.
And I know I, I felt like we

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were cut from a similar cloth as
far as, you know, music and our,

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our love for English and our
love for teaching and our love

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for podcasting, talking, meeting
people.

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And I was like, you know, and
then when we talked for probably

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what, 20 minutes, half an hour
off air after we finish the

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courting, you know, I was like,
there's no way that we're not

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going to have a great
conversation and there's no way

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that there's no reason to not
stay in touch.

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So I'm really happy you're
joining me.

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Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely.

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Thank you and I agree.
And I think something I enjoyed

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about you and enjoy to continue
to enjoy about you is like me,

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you're a lifelong learner, less
of a so I like podcast host who

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lean and the I like to learn and
listen side, which you are

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definitely so.
Yeah, I appreciate that.

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Thank you.
Yeah, I'm trying to man, it's

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hard to, but it's hard because I
think, I think that for a lot of

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people, when you, as you become
established or as you kind of

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make your way through the world,
admitting that you were wrong

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about something kind of shakes
you to your foundations and your

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roots.
And you're like, well, if I was

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wrong about that, like, what
else am I wrong about?

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You know, and that's a really
scary thing.

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I think a lot of people won't
even entertain or have a hard

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time doing.
And I think that, you know, I, I

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think that there's I, I think
you kind of have to like dip

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your toe in the water a little
bit because it is uncomfortable.

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And so you kind of start with
small questions and you kind of

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get bigger and you kind of, you
know, a smaller trains of

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thoughts and get bigger.
And I think that, you know,

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especially at the end of the
year, you know, there's a

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Jewish, you know, you got the
Jewish New Year, which is Rosh

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Hashanah that everyone, a lot of
people know about.

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And you got New Year's.
And they're both, you know, I

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think they're two sides of
different coins.

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I think what, you know, New
Year's is celebrating the end of

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the end of the year and the
beginning of a new one with a

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lot of hope.
And the Jewish New Year is much

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more somber and much more, you
know, reflective and a lot more.

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What did I do this past year?
How did I behave?

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Am I happy with my behavior or
do I need, what do I need to

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work on?
But I think that you're coming

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to both of them, you know, And
so, so tell me some thoughts

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that are going through your mind
in the new year.

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Tell me a little bit about
yourself or going into the new

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year.
Tell me about yourself a little

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bit and let's open up the
conversation.

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See how we go?
See how we go, where we go from

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here?
Yeah, My thoughts going into the

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new year are it's been a long
time since I shook up a few

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things in my life, and it's
because I needed to have the

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discipline to not shake things
up to raise a couple little

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kids.
But they're getting older and

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I'm getting older, and I kind of
see the wisdom now in shaking a

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few things up.
So I don't have any, like,

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specifics to offer to your
audience or you, but I just want

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to like, try to say yes more
often when my inclination is to

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say no.
And then also to try saying no

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sometimes when my inclination is
to say yes.

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Like it's not a binary, or maybe
that's binary, but it's not like

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I want to lean one way or the
other.

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I just feel like I'm not
complacent, but I don't want to

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become complacent, so I want to
put a safeguard against that and

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I do.
I totally agree with you that

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we're kind of blessed when you
live in America, if you're

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Jewish and and American because
you do celebrate both holidays.

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They do come three months apart.
And I definitely pay more

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attention to the first one,
especially Yom Kippur or less

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Rosh Hashanah actually, because
I think atonement is such an

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interesting word To me, atoning.
It's not accountability, it's

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different.
And as I get older, I actually

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am shocked by how little I have
to atone for with like a greater

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circle of people.
But what I noticed that I do

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repeatedly and it's my biggest
issue in life is it's hardest to

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be nice to the people closest to
you.

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It's like it's, it's annoying
and it's constantly frustrating

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to me.
And, and The funny thing is, I

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don't think my wife is better at
it than me.

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I think we're like pretty
equally.

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And I wouldn't even say we're
good or bad at it.

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It's just that that is the thing
that I really want to

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concentrate on in this new year
is learning to shut up and wait

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to have like important
conversations.

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It's just something I'm like
terrible at the second I need to

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have an important conversation,
I'm like, now we got to do it.

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There's no waiting.
And like, that's immature,

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impatient.
And unless it's like there's a

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time bomb going off in the house
and we have to get out of the

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house in three seconds.
Believe it or not, Mike, talking

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to myself, nothing's that
urgent.

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You know, Like, yeah, yeah.
That's a good point.

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That's really interesting.
And I actually think, you know,

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it's funny because there's 2 is
again, two sides of a coin.

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I think that a big problem as a
society that people are having

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now that I'm sure you've heard
the term quiet quitting, but

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they kind of apply it to
everything, you know, whether

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it's work, whether it's
relationships, whether it's even

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friendships, you know, we're
like, you won't confront

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someone.
It's much harder to have that

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conversation.
Hey, I don't think this is

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working out or, you know, like
I'm looking for another job.

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I'm sorry that, you know, and,
and I'm sorry, I know you're

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counting on me, but I, you know,
I got to go a different way.

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And most people would literally
rather just quit putting in

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effort until the other person
gets completely sick of it,

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throws up their hands and says,
I don't want to deal with you

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anymore.
And then you got the people that

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have to, you know, like what
you're saying, like what you're

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describing.
I got to, I got to respond to

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everything immediately, you
know, and, and there's a sweet

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middle ground, you know, where,
Hey, man, and especially, I

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mean, I don't know about your,
you know, your, your, I guess

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you're resting emotional state,
you know, but, but I think it's

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really important to, we feel
things very strongly as they

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happen and to be able to take a
breath and literally, even if

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you're waiting on, you know, a
couple of seconds to respond or

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a couple of minutes to figure
out the right way to say it, a

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lot of you know it, it makes a
huge difference because you

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know, there's, it's the
difference between reacting and

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acting.
It's the difference between

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being, you know, being someone
that is constantly exclusively

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responding to the world around
them as opposed to being

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contemplative and then and then,
you know, acting with

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intentionality.
So I think what you're kind of

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describing is just a little bit
more intentionality rather than

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reflexiveness, right?
Yeah.

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And then I also have a fear that
if you come to me with conflict,

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like for example, I was a vice
principal for a while.

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It was one of the worst things
I've ever had to do.

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I, I, for many reasons, both
good and bad, I took the job.

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I did actually my best and I,
I'm proud of what I did, but I

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couldn't stand it.
I couldn't stand the pressures.

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And one of the things that would
happen is, you know, teachers

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would come into me with, with
conflict this other teacher, why

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they get this shift.
I want this, you know, just, I

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mean, teachers are not immature
people, but when they're in the

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office with an administrator,
they tend to have a like

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children.
And I was a teacher long before

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I was an administrator.
And I even noticed that when I

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was 1.
So I'm saying that if someone's

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listening and you think I don't
understand what I'm talking

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about, my experiential
experience is that teachers like

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run a class, but then when
they're in the class, things

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kind of breakdown.
And and so it was not fun to be

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an administrator in those
circumstances.

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And one of the things that I was
really fearful of is if you come

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into my office with conflict and
I just sit there with like a

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steel face contemplating, it
looks like I'm saying no, like

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it, it gives.
And so it was like a real like

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hard learning curve for me to be
like, I'm your boss and I'm

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going to like have to think
about this.

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You know, I might even have to
talk to a couple other teachers.

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And, and so I've also noticed
that sometimes I feel that way,

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especially in in the marital
like realm, because that is what

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I'm really concentrating on the
most.

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My kids to a lesser extent, but,
you know, they're my kids.

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So they're, there's an actual
hierarchy.

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But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's my
wife.

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Yeah, sorry.
Go ahead.

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Please go ahead with your wife,
Yes.

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Oh, it's just like, if she wants
to travel, like she said, I want

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to take a vacation and then I
just, I'm like, OK, like I need

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to think about that.
But she hears that as a no.

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And I that has so much more to
do with like the people in her

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life who said, let me think
about that.

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Like, I don't know her
precedence with that word, but

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it did remind me of teaching.
And it still reminds me of of

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all that with like just
sometimes what you just

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described, even though that is
like the peak of, in my opinion,

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maturity, especially in American
Society where like, don't take

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no for an answer.
Don't wait.

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Like, you know, it's just like
rush, rush, rush.

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And so I do think there's
something also like deeply

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cultural in this discussion.
Definitely, definitely, let's,

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let's talk about the teaching a
little bit because I have I, I,

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I teach part time.
I'm actually having my, my first

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graduating class this year.
My, the 9th graders that were

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the first classroom that I
walked into are, are now my 12th

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grade class and they're
graduating.

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And it's, it's really, really
cool to see.

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And it's really cool to see what
these young men have turned into

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throughout the years.
You know, and, and it's so funny

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because I did not, I, I went
into teaching high school

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kicking and screaming.
I only wanted to teach 12th

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graders.
I wanted to teach college.

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I wanted to teach mature people
that are capable of

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sophisticated ideas.
And, you know, and then, and

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then I started teaching these
9th graders and I was blown away

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by their creativity, by their,
and you know, one benefit to not

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being fully developed is that
you're not, you know, your

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prefrontal cortex isn't as
developed.

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And so you're not as ashamed or
afraid to like you're thinking,

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oh, what's up?
I'm going to think about what I

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do, you know, and you're afraid,
you're not afraid to be silly

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and, and put out, you put on
different accents if you're

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reading or use different voices,
if you're, if, if you're, you

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know, reading an assignment in
class or anything like that.

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And then you watch them as 12th
graders and they say, you know,

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and I actually had one student
that he was my he is probably

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just today one of the most
creative kids I've I've taught.

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And in 9th grade, he was just
just oozing creativity.

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He was just flowing out of him.
Everyone assignment after the

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next was just incredible.
And this year I tried giving

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them a creative writing
assignment is and he said to me,

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right, And he's sitting in the
class, he's kind of hunched over

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and like, what's the point in
creative assignments, Mr.

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Hirschman?
And I like, like, can you come

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here for a minute?
And I brought him over to my

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desk and I pulled up like three
of his stories that he wrote in

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9th grade.
And I showed them to him.

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I said, you know who wrote this?
He's like, who?

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And I said, you wrote that dude.
He's like, I wrote that.

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I said you 1000% wrote that.
And he read through it.

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00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,800
And he was like, OK, you
inspired me.

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00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,400
I got to get back to it and
like, wow, that was all you

223
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,760
needed.
But as far as the

224
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,040
administration, but, but I do
run into conflicts with

225
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,080
administration all the time
because especially it's an, it's

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00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,600
an ultra Orthodox Jewish school.
They technically don't want any

227
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,080
English music.
They technically don't want any

228
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,760
movies or any kind of exposure
to not Jewish culture, which I

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00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,560
do understand.
And quite frankly, I'm in their

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00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,160
building.
So I, you know, so I should

231
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,240
respect that.
I do respect that for the most

232
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,520
part.
And and then I do and, and where

233
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,200
it has come to a butting heads a
little bit is where I insist on

234
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,240
showing them valuable lyrics to
have to do with the relationship

235
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,640
father and son with Cat Stevens
or cats in the cradle.

236
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,000
And like these kids would never
get exposed to anything like

237
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,080
that.
And I have to sit down with the

238
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,240
principal and he has to have the
hard conversation with me, which

239
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,760
he doesn't want to do and say,
you shouldn't be doing this.

240
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,960
And I have to say, these kids
aren't reading Great Gatsby.

241
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,480
I'm not they, they, they, they,
they do a dual curriculum.

242
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,160
They're in, they're in class
from 8:00 AM till literally

243
00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,480
eight, 7:38 PM every day.
They're not going home and

244
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,720
reading The Great Gatsby.
So if we're going to work on

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00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,840
literature, if we're going to
work on like the meaning and the

246
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,720
beauty and the, and the humanity
behind, you know, behind writing

247
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,520
and the ability to express
yourself, you got to do it in a

248
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,640
short, concentrated way.
And I think that this, and, you

249
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,280
know, and especially sixties,
70s counterculture and, you

250
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,560
know, and I guess social
commentary, music and poetry is

251
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:27,240
a really great way to get there.
But I do understand that, that,

252
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,640
that, that, that, that that
tension.

253
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,720
And that's why I never want to
be on the administration side.

254
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,520
Tell me about your teaching,
your teaching career.

255
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,760
Yeah, Sure.
Well, first of all, I'd like to

256
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,960
say on behalf of all
administrators, you're right,

257
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:38,960
they're wrong and on behalf.
Of all.

258
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,960
Administrators, your boss is
doing his or her job, his job,

259
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,520
but with that understanding of
his job is to defend the

260
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,440
monolith like whatever it is.
And so in your institution, it's

261
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,760
Orthodox, Orthodox Judaism.
In my institution it was a

262
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,280
capitalist enterprise of 40
schools annexed from the United

263
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,360
Kingdom and all over the world,
Australia.

264
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,120
And I was but a puppet in a San
Francisco school.

265
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,960
So my sister.
Teaching Francisco.

266
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,640
Yeah, this is so I I was born in
New York, but I was raised in

267
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,280
California.
I grew up next to Berkeley,

268
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,480
which should explain like,
pretty much all of my naivity,

269
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,360
because I grew up thinking like,
naked people ride the bus.

270
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,000
The world is diverse.
People don't say rude things to

271
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,280
each other.
They just think them.

272
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,440
And so like, for example, like I
never encountered anti-Semitism

273
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,040
until I was 1819 and I moved far
away from home.

274
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,120
So I I like understood like, you
know, I learned about the

275
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,520
Holocaust blah, blah, blah, you
know, but it but it wasn't like

276
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,600
ever an issue where I grew up.
Now.

277
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,360
I mean, there was like, you're
different.

278
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,840
What is wrong with you?
You're weird.

279
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,640
You're a Jew.
But that's not technically

280
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,640
anti-Semitism.
That's just kids being, you

281
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,680
know, so no one ever said
anything like like, you know,

282
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,040
even bordering on like the stuff
I actually hear in mainstream

283
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,760
now, which is crazy to me
gearing back to the subject of

284
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,840
hand teaching, but it does
apply.

285
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,320
So I went to a Graduate School
for writing.

286
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,720
I got an MFA, Master of Fine
Arts in creative Writing.

287
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,120
And as part of the program, they
force you to get also a teaching

288
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,560
degree.
And it's to let you teach at the

289
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:12,520
collegiate level or lower.
English literature writing.

290
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,480
And yeah, those 3.
So like English as in grammar,

291
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,440
and then literature as in, you
know, reading whatever.

292
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,640
And I had ATA ship and I loved
it.

293
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,640
I mean, it was just like, I was
like to care less about writing

294
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,000
my novels.
I could care less about like,

295
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,040
going out and drinking with my
friends.

296
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,120
Like, I was just like reading
pedagogy manuals.

297
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,200
And I just loved it.
And teaching just took over me.

298
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,040
It's still the greatest joy of
my life.

299
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,200
I consider myself a teacher in
many regards, but I missed it

300
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,240
dearly and I can get into why I
switched later.

301
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,360
But the reason I took the
promotion was that I was getting

302
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,240
married and my my ex-wife, her
father just put tremendous

303
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,440
pressure on me.
He's like, if you're going to

304
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,320
start a family, you can't just
be a teacher, especially in

305
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,120
America, blah blah blah.
And I was at a private school so

306
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,000
it was like very different.
I was actually making like less

307
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,160
money than even regular public
teachers make.

308
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,680
So like he wasn't exactly wrong.
The only thing is I did have my

309
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,880
S together.
I had like, you know, I bought a

310
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,880
condo and had a low mortgage.
Like everything was manageable.

311
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,000
But with that said, I'm glad I
took the administrative position

312
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,840
because I can talk to like
teachers like you and and say

313
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,440
like don't ever take that
promotion.

314
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,000
It it like I feel sorry for your
boss.

315
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,560
I don't care how much he makes
it.

316
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,840
I feel sorry for him.
Unless he owns the school and

317
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,320
he's running it, then I don't
feel sorry for him.

318
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,120
But if you're not the owner and
you're in management, you're

319
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,000
always in middle management,
you're not ever the manager.

320
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,400
Like it doesn't matter.
And I learned that in restaurant

321
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,480
work.
I learned it everywhere I've

322
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,160
been as far as teaching goes.
I've taught college writing,

323
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,320
I've taught junior high school.
I taught high school.

324
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,280
But my main career, nine years
was teaching adults at a private

325
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,720
English language school.
So it was adults from other

326
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,680
countries flying here with visas
trying to get good.

327
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,920
It's actually, it's, it's funny.
I mean, this was years after,

328
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,080
but this is exactly how the 9/11
people got into America and did

329
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,800
what they did is they went to a
school like mine.

330
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,640
So it's always funny when I hear
about like, language schools are

331
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:02,920
dangerous.
I'm like, not really.

332
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,000
I mean, we had like too many
Saudi Arabian students to count.

333
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,800
They're great students.
They they come like in large

334
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,160
numbers.
That was actually Speaking of

335
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,920
the Jewish thing.
Like at first I was like, oh

336
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,080
God, what am I?
It was like not ever an issue.

337
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,960
If anything, the issue came from
other countries and I won't get

338
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,920
into it, but it was actually
least of all in the Middle East.

339
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,480
So I don't know, you know how
that speaks to like the

340
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,120
political leaders over there.
But as far as like human to

341
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,560
human, this was the greatest
career for me because I just got

342
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,640
to constantly meet people from
other cultures and countries.

343
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,800
I got to practice cross cultural
communication and I got to learn

344
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,320
by staying in America.
I learned more about other

345
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,880
countries than traveling to them
because I would have these

346
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,040
intimate as you know, like bonds
with students.

347
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,800
I mean, some of them would be my
students for years, Others were,

348
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,760
you know, just a week or two.
But I taught, I mean, in a nine

349
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,440
year career, I taught at least
5000, probably 10,000 different

350
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,880
students.
I the only countries I haven't

351
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,600
taught are like certain ones in
Africa or nationalities is what

352
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,160
I should say.
And I'm still friends, like,

353
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,160
really good friends with a
couple of my students.

354
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,560
I really like all my colleagues.
But what I loved was just

355
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,480
teaching is your chance to, to
like, it's like therapy for

356
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,080
people.
It really is like, you're more

357
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,360
like their therapist and you're
a mentor.

358
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,520
Yeah.
And you're like, your story is

359
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,320
like actually so heartwarming
about that boy because like you,

360
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,600
you see people like their
confidence really wavers.

361
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200
And I just remember it was only
teachers, whoever could Pierce

362
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,440
my low self esteem.
They were the only people who

363
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,240
knew how to like get in there
with an air tube and just like

364
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,320
spray it and like conflate it a
little bit, whether it was high

365
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,240
school or college or later in
life, but especially grad

366
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,600
school.
Actually it was my grad school

367
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,560
mentors who were like some of
those important.

368
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,720
So I think I miss teaching
terribly.

369
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,560
I moved to Arizona from San
Francisco.

370
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,800
The school closed during COVID
but I was never going to go back

371
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,520
there.
And here they don't even have

372
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,080
private language schools like
that.

373
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,680
It's just all if I was going to
do ESL it would be low income

374
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,040
students from Mexico with with
bilingual skills which I'm fine.

375
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,000
At I can do that.
And it's funny because I

376
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,839
remember my stereotype was
exactly the same.

377
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,160
I'm like, I'm only going to
teach college.

378
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,960
I'm only going to teach.
And then no, like any age is

379
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,520
fun.
Like right now, I play music at

380
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,119
my daughter's preschool and I go
and I play 520 minutes sets of

381
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,839
like kids songs on my guitar and
I sing my brains out.

382
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,359
I do a color cover of Taylor
Swift because for some reason

383
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000
all the kids like parents, like
most of their parents are your

384
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,800
age, not my age.
So like a lot of Swift music,

385
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,160
like, you know, and but but the
point is it's magical even at

386
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,680
that age.
Like the questions my daughter

387
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,400
asked me in the car, like being
her teacher is going to be like,

388
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,400
the most fun assignment of my
life.

389
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,920
And same with my other two kids.
It's just like, so yeah, I don't

390
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:47,960
know.
You just told me to talk about

391
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,520
teaching.
I mean I just, I think I know

392
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,760
this is an unpopular statement,
but I'm going to make it.

393
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,240
Someone said this to me the
other day and I'm always against

394
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,280
this.
We should not pay teachers like

395
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,680
lawyers.
We should not incentivize money

396
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,360
driven people to become
teachers.

397
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,080
We should incentivize teaching
for the sake of teaching.

398
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,600
But we should also provide a
huge safety net for these

399
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,400
teachers.
So I am not arguing that we

400
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,480
should not pay them more.
But what I am arguing against is

401
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,920
this ludicrous idea of like
making teaching the pinnacle of

402
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,640
like achievement tied into
money.

403
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,440
I don't want my doctors doing
that in that either.

404
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,880
I don't want like anyone in a
position where ethics and

405
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,440
morality are going to be that
important.

406
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,760
So lawyers, it's fine.
Like your, your job is to break

407
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,640
contracts and defend me.
Like that's fine.

408
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,720
You know, it's not, it's not
quite the same, but I do

409
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,280
actually think that there's a
humility and a love of teaching

410
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,360
that should be part of and
parcel of of the experience.

411
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:43,760
So, you know, in general, I just
think like universal basic

412
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,520
income would probably solve most
of our societal issues right

413
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,000
now, like some sort of just
basic safety net for all people.

414
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,440
And, and when people say what
about lazy people, I'm like,

415
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,080
dude, just get all the lazy
people out of the stores.

416
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,560
Like I don't want them working
at jobs.

417
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,840
Like I don't want lazy people
doing rivets on an airplane

418
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,440
wing.
I don't want lazy people making

419
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,600
my line take longer and target,
like, you know, I just like give

420
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,240
them money and let them be lazy
somewhere else.

421
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,560
So I I think there's tons of
hard working dedicated people in

422
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,640
the society and teachers, there
is a problem with both the

423
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,040
hiring and the like job skills
and all that.

424
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,440
Like I think the military has
too low of an entrance level and

425
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,920
I think teaching does, but I
don't think the pay should be

426
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,040
like back.
Yeah.

427
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,120
So.
That's that's man you, you OK,

428
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:28,520
We got so many places to go with
that.

429
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,960
But I want to I want to talk
about the last point because I

430
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,320
mean, I am that is a really
interesting conversation in

431
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,200
general.
I've been thinking for I, you

432
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,000
know, I like the way you put
that where you kind of where you

433
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,480
kind of are separating.
Everyone says a teacher, you get

434
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,120
paid more.
Everyone, you know, it is one of

435
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,760
the most important jobs.
And I actually think that it

436
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,800
would probably be better.
I don't know if, you know, let's

437
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,560
say enormous salaries are going
to make a huge difference

438
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,560
because enormous salaries lead
to corruption as we always find.

439
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,840
And you know, enormous financial
incentives leads to try people

440
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,480
trying to find shortcuts to get
to where they want, you know, to

441
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,040
get those financial incentives.
I think that.

442
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,400
For people to be teachers now
you got to be a martyr or you

443
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,600
got to be a moron.
You know, you got to be one or

444
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,920
the other and or you could be or
you could try to be, you know,

445
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,520
like I'm trying to.
I'm barely straggling the, the

446
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,040
line where where I've got bills
to pay.

447
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,240
It's I'm not teaching to, to get
money.

448
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,920
I'm teaching, you know, 8 hours
a week, 10 hours a week, maybe,

449
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,720
you know, and, and the rest of
my time is devoted to sales in

450
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,800
the podcast to my family and
exercise and whatever.

451
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,200
But it's hard.
It's really, really hard to make

452
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,600
a living.
Most people even, you know, even

453
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,720
in a hundred $150,000 salaries
are having a hard time.

454
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,080
You can't you can't save money
to put aside for a house.

455
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,200
And and you again, you got to
either be a martyr or you got to

456
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,200
be a moron.
And the problem and and we as

457
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,560
society, like when you meet
someone, you say I'm a teacher.

458
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,040
It's almost an embarrassing
thing to say.

459
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,880
It's like, you know, you can say
I'm a doctor.

460
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:13,320
OK, Wow.
What do you practice?

461
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,680
You know, I'm a teacher.
Oh, yeah.

462
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,640
What do you teach?
You know, what's it like to deal

463
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,360
with snot nose kids all day?
You're like, dude, you were snot

464
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:22,520
cutting those kids like 3 months
ago, okay?

465
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,400
And you still act like 1 because
you had a crappy teacher.

466
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,480
So like, let's not talk about it
like that and let's, let's

467
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,920
really try to, to, to realize
that like, like we live.

468
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,080
I, I think that America is on
such and this is our biggest

469
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,040
flaw.
I think in with everything.

470
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,800
We are so short sighted.
We have such short term vision.

471
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,320
We think by quarters, we think
by months, we think by, you

472
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,160
know, like, by we get paid every
other week and like all that

473
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,800
money just has to be spent.
And then you just wait for the

474
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,480
next two weeks and you hope that
you got to spend it again.

475
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,320
And you're like, you don't like,
there's no long term thinking.

476
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,480
There's no thinking about our
kids or the future.

477
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,160
There's no thinking about, you
know, there's no, it's just

478
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,240
kicking the can down the line
and hoping for everyone else to,

479
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,720
to, to deal with it.
And, you know, by contrast,

480
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,280
China, which is doing far better
than we are in a lot of

481
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,040
different capacities, in nearly
every capacity really, you know,

482
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,800
except for, you know, maybe a
short few.

483
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,920
They respect teachers.
They really, it's one of the top

484
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:24,120
three respected positions there
and they and they think in long

485
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:28,480
term plants and that's why they
can be so patient and so smart

486
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,280
and that's why they could be
invested if you know, for a long

487
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,400
period of time.
And even companies, for example,

488
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,400
like Amazon, when Amazon
started, they didn't, they

489
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,640
didn't mark a profit for years,
you know, and, and, and, and

490
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,040
Wall Street punished them for
that and they didn't care.

491
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,160
And but it, but it took a, it
took a real, real Unicorn to,

492
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,320
and a real unique kind of player
to say we don't care about our

493
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,320
short term stock prices.
If you don't like it, don't

494
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,600
invest with us.
But we're reinvesting everything

495
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,200
into the future and everything
into the growth.

496
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,000
And we should be doing that as a
society for our kids.

497
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,200
We should be doing as society
for families.

498
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,240
And by the way, even the notion
of having a family, which is

499
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,200
less popular now than ever, is,
is literally this long term

500
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,560
thinking like, it's like, and
either do what I want now at

501
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,920
7:00 PM or 9:00 PM and like not
be in bed or not be putting my

502
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,120
kid to bed.
But then in 20 years from now,

503
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,120
I'm by myself, you know, and I
used to, when I, when I was in

504
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,320
college, I used to visit
assisted living homes and I used

505
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,160
to bring my friends.
We used to, you know, hang out

506
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,280
and make little parties or maybe
a couple of people would bring a

507
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,400
couple of, you know,
instruments.

508
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,200
And this is before I played
guitar.

509
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,320
If otherwise I would have, but,
but I, you know, and, and, and I

510
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,760
used to, and there's a huge, and
I used to pop around to

511
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,440
different assisted living homes.
Binghamton, NY, which is

512
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,080
upstate, had a huge number of
assisted living homes because

513
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,840
it's cheap and it's really easy
to make a nice facility for not

514
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,640
a lot of money.
And you can obviously charge a

515
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,080
lot of money and do whatever you
want to do.

516
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,400
But you know, you you see the
difference in the people that

517
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,080
are there when their families
are visiting them every other

518
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,320
week and their grandkids are
coming by and their grandkids

519
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,480
are hugging them and spending
time with them or they're

520
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,200
called, you know, we always
getting visitors.

521
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,240
And then you have the people
that are sitting by themselves

522
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,920
and like, and there's a woman
Maryland.

523
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,880
And she told me and I and it was
such a devastating conversation.

524
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,760
She was in a shitty nursing
home, not even assisted living

525
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,080
because there's a huge
difference in quality.

526
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,240
I don't know if you know if
you're familiar with that whole

527
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,840
whole world, but she's sitting
by herself and she told me she's

528
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,880
like, I'm just waiting to die
every day.

529
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,520
You know, I'm just waiting to
die and, and she's and she's

530
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,400
like, I thought when I was
young, I was going to be cool.

531
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,800
And I thought it was cool to
focus on just my career.

532
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,320
And I thought it was cool to
not, you know, to be a

533
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,440
independent.
And by the way, I'm not saying

534
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,080
it isn't cool to be independent.
It's not, it's, I'm not saying

535
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,000
it isn't cool to have a career,
but there's got to be a long

536
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,240
term thinking plan where you're
like, Hey, hey, like, you know

537
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,200
what, when I'm 60, you know,
it'd be really nice to have a

538
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,240
couple of kids, have a little
community, have a little world

539
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,080
around me that, that, that, that
I can continue loving and they

540
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,200
continue supporting me.
And, you know, you make an

541
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,120
investment in your kids and then
everyone knows that, you know,

542
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,720
at a certain point in your life,
things are, I'm, I'm getting to

543
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,480
that point where, you know,
where things are starting to

544
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,720
swap, where I'm going to tell my
dad, you got to be healthy.

545
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Instead of my dad telling me,
Hey, eat your, eat your protein,

546
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,240
eat your, you know, drink your
milk, go to the gym.

547
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,200
I got to tell that to him now,
you know, and, and so like we

548
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,960
see that the changes that the
circle of life is happening.

549
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,640
But if we're not investing in
tomorrow, if we're not investing

550
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,320
in a month from now and a year
from now or in 10 years from

551
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,320
now, what are we doing?
You know, like we and we're

552
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,560
seeing the consequences.
People are isolated, people are

553
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,240
lonely, people are sad and well,
what's that come from?

554
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,640
I'm so glad you brought up China
because one of the best things I

555
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,960
learned from my career in
teaching was teaching Chinese

556
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,800
students who would come over and
be like, yeah, that's not true.

557
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,440
No, that's like your government
is just completely lying to you.

558
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,320
Chinese people hate their
government.

559
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,840
They know the CCP is as corrupt
as it comes.

560
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,680
Chinese people don't hate their
culture and their culture is

561
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,280
what you refer to.
And it's like 1000 year wisdom.

562
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,440
And it's about like rice paddies
and sharing the water and the

563
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,160
water from your neighbor drips
into yours.

564
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,960
So it's very important to have a
good relationship with your

565
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,280
neighbor, even if you don't like
them.

566
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,480
It's also important to respect
water because water grows all

567
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:03,560
the rice.
You know, they just have these

568
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,640
aphorisms.
And Japan, I mean it's unless

569
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,960
I'm missing something and I
lived in Thailand for a while.

570
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,280
All of Asia has this idea of
family first, elders first.

571
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,640
Take care of the people above
you and think in terms of 100 if

572
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,920
not thousands of years.
The the individual is not as

573
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,720
important as the collective
society.

574
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,480
In Japan, for example, when you
bow to people who are older than

575
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,040
you, you bow pretty deep for the
Prime Minister, but you bow even

576
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,960
deeper for the teacher.
The deepest bow is for the

577
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,480
sensei, and it's like reserved
only for the teacher.

578
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Meanwhile, teachers in Japan
don't make the most money that

579
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,360
the two are not tied into each
other.

580
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,880
It's the honor.
So I think what you hit the nail

581
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,400
on the head with was we have no
honor for teachers, nor do they

582
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,480
get paid.
And my gosh, what a tragedy.

583
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,160
What a tragedy to do both.
And then also, you know, like I

584
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,400
said, the barrier to entry.
I mean, one thing I also wanted

585
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,680
to add is there's no one under
the age of 25 should be teaching

586
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,840
high school.
There's too much of like the

587
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,000
pressure of like wanting to be
cool and fit in.

588
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,520
And they're still like, also it
would solve like so many cases

589
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,640
of inappropriate relationships
because once you're like over

590
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,800
25, they look like children, you
know, I mean, you know, this

591
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,360
like, like, like they're not
like adults at all.

592
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,640
And there's no attraction.
There's nothing like that.

593
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,400
But on top of that, there's also
no desire to be liked by them in

594
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,200
like a compulsive way.
And so I, I see a huge issue

595
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,280
with two young people teaching
two older people.

596
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,600
So 25 year olds could teach 12
year olds, you know, and, and a

597
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,280
21 year old.
So I'm not saying you shouldn't

598
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,840
be able to be a teacher, but the
age difference has to be severe.

599
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,280
And I really do think that
there's just a, a lack of honor

600
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,920
and respect for teachers that
like is ushered in by parents

601
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,520
too.
Like that's your teacher.

602
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,600
And then the other weird thing
that you are about to see and

603
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,760
I'm seeing is your teachers
influence your kids like so much

604
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,120
to the point where I'm like, oh,
I see why crotchety people who

605
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,640
watch Fox News talk the way they
do.

606
00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:59,920
I'm not going to become one of
them.

607
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,720
But I see it.
I see the bug of like, my

608
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,040
daughter came home and told me
what her teacher told her about

609
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,960
911.
And remember, I grew up in

610
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,720
Berkeley.
And I was like, whoa, that's a

611
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,640
really unfair version.
Like, give those people some

612
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,600
credit.
Like, you know, like, there's

613
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,360
the famous joke.
Bill Maher got fired from ABC

614
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,920
after 911 because he said, look,
I'm OK with hating the terror

615
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,640
and all that, but please stop
calling them cowards.

616
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,360
There's nothing cowardly about
doing what they did.

617
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,760
And he got, he lost his job for
that.

618
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
But that's kind of my take on
9/11 is like, we, we should at

619
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,280
least shape the narrative so
that like, there's an

620
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,600
understanding of like why
there's anger in that region of

621
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,680
the world and, and why that
anger would fuel such a

622
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,720
devastating and completely
immoral action.

623
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,280
And so this is also what I think
teaching is completely lacking

624
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,840
is it started as compulsory
education in Illinois in the

625
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,040
1800s.
It's goal was just to like

626
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,080
basically babysit kids and get
them up to an eighth grade, what

627
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,000
we would say now, 8th grade
level of education, so they can

628
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,360
go back to the farm.
You know, there was no like

629
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,000
learning how to learn critical
thinking skills, none of that.

630
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,680
And that's just carried through
to 2025.

631
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,840
And now we have like the
Internet is teaching your kids.

632
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,840
I, you know, you came from a
good family and you had a very

633
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,040
constructive youth.
I can just tell like it's pretty

634
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,040
obvious.
But you're, you are from the

635
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,560
generation where like self
education online is like a

636
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,280
rampant issue.
You know, I, I, I am not

637
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,760
denouncing podcasting as a
podcaster who's on a podcast,

638
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,240
but the podcast host should not
have had as much of an influence

639
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,480
on the election as they did.
And the other day they did.

640
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,240
And that's not because those
people are dumb and they don't

641
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,320
deserve an audience.
It's because critical thinking

642
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,480
skills have not been taught for
so many years now that people

643
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,360
are having trouble even
understanding what you just

644
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,160
said, which is, Hey, why don't
you think longer than like this

645
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,000
minute, like maybe wait to eat
that THC brownie until if you're

646
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,240
like, you know, like, like
there's just like this immediacy

647
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,720
that already happens because of
the frontal cortex issue.

648
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,760
And then the last thing I'm
going to say on the note of

649
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,640
America is we are teenagers.
We have no frontal cortex

650
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,480
development.
We are a new country.

651
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,320
We threw a bunch of tea bags in
Ann Harbor and we're like,

652
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,800
that's it.
We're the best ever.

653
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,960
That's like way too early
congratulating like stop, hold

654
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,920
the presses.
We're in year 200 something and

655
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,960
we're kind of crumbling.
Like we're like a marriage

656
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,680
that's in year 3.
And they're like, well, we've

657
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,880
survived everything.
And you're like, whoa, there's

658
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:11,480
a.
Lot of stress.

659
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,120
Coming So this is a stress point
and I we're really in it I mean

660
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,680
we're in like a huge like this
is the last time something this

661
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,880
critical happened was like the
1920s I would say and then

662
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,680
before that it was like in the
1820s it does happen about every

663
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,200
100 years but.
Yeah, the extent of the damage I

664
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,920
think though has been, I mean,
going on and the more I'm

665
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,240
learning about this and the more
I'm reading about this and the

666
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,560
more I'm talking to people about
this, the more I'm realizing,

667
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,360
you know, how long this this is
75 years worth of damage.

668
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,160
That's all coming to a climax.
I mean, this is since World War

669
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,880
2 where we decided that we won
and that we are now, you know,

670
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,320
again that would have had in the
back that you give.

671
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,280
Yourself.
We won, yeah.

672
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,000
We can do any.
Yeah, right.

673
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,840
We want that.
We can do anything, right.

674
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120
Russia threw millions of
soldiers at at World War 2 and

675
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,120
you know, and we provide a lot
of manufacturing and you know,

676
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:07,480
but I think but since then we
you know, we've we got comfy, we

677
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,680
got cocky and I actually I made
the point I make the point to

678
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,720
show my students every year and
every year I'm re inspired.

679
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Steve Jobs is a famous
inauguration speech at Stanford

680
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,360
and one of the beautiful one of
my favorite things that he said

681
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,600
that we always, I think have to
think about because I think it

682
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,160
really perpetually provides hope
in a really useful way.

683
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,200
Is he said the best thing that
happened to him was his failure

684
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,080
and the best thing that happened
to him was getting kicked out of

685
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,440
Apple.
He wouldn't have started Pixar.

686
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,120
He wouldn't have started next.
He was like in the weight and

687
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,840
the burden of being successful.
I didn't realize how suffocating

688
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,000
it was.
I didn't know how suffocating it

689
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,960
was to be established and to be
successful and what I had to

690
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,560
compromise to maintain that.
And then when I found that it

691
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,600
was all ripped away from me.
I would have my wings again.

692
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,720
I had my I was free.
I could do I could do whatever I

693
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,000
wanted to do.
And I actually think that right

694
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,240
now, I don't think anyone except
for propagandized Americans

695
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,040
would say that we're the best at
any very much right now.

696
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,760
You know, and I don't even think
it's necessarily so bad to be

697
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,600
propagandized.
I think national identity is a

698
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,160
very valuable thing.
I think it's very valuable to be

699
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,960
proud of your family and who you
are and where and where you're

700
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,360
from.
And I think that those are all

701
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,960
really, really integral.
And I but I think it's a good

702
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,880
thing that people are waking up
and saying, hey, we got a lot of

703
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,640
work to do.
Like we have fallen behind.

704
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,720
But now that we don't have that
weight of that success, now we

705
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,640
don't have the weight of, of
having to be the number one.

706
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,320
Now we could be the underdog
again.

707
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,440
And we can be like that 1980,
you know, US hockey Olympic team

708
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,600
against the Russians.
And we were young and excited

709
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,160
and a bunch of guys that haven't
played together.

710
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,240
And then we're going.
And then this is new chemistry

711
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,480
and this emergent of something
magnificent from a bunch of

712
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,400
disparate parts.
And that's what America is.

713
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,520
And then, then and then it
stopped being that way and then

714
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,800
it got hurt.
And now I'm hoping and now

715
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,520
again, because you could do you
could look at this in either

716
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,360
way, you could be very negative
and say and listen, we are going

717
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,520
to have a painful experience.
There's no question about it.

718
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,560
Economically, we are suffering.
There was such.

719
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,880
I'm reading this book right now.
It's another it's it's a third

720
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,920
variation, but it's called
Confessions of an Economic

721
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,800
Hitman.
And one of my one of my, I mean,

722
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,760
the book blew my mind.
And I actually got the author on

723
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,880
the podcast and his name is John
Perkins.

724
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,560
Awesome, awesome dude.
And, and one thing that he was

725
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,400
that he wrote in his book and it
makes it's so cool, he goes,

726
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,080
there's three individuals that
have as much money as half the

727
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,800
country in America right now.
He goes, everyone says our

728
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,880
economy is doing well, right?
It's fine.

729
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,560
He goes if those 3 individuals
make 10% on their investment,

730
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,720
which they tend to or if not
more, right, let's say 10% and

731
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,080
half the population, sorry, half
of the, so you have, you know,

732
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,920
half.
So you have half the wealth is 3

733
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,880
people, half the wealth is the
rest of the country.

734
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,320
If the rest of the country loses
3% of their money and the rest

735
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,000
stay approximately the same,
right.

736
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,560
So we still have, you could say
the economy is still doing well

737
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,120
because the three people got
10%.

738
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,520
So when Trump's walking around,
and by the way, it's funny

739
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,719
because I was extremely hopeful
for this Trump presidency.

740
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,520
I was extremely hopeful.
I, I saw the unification of

741
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,560
people that have been
historically to the left coming,

742
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,880
you know, coming not necessarily
to the right, but more populist,

743
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,800
anti authoritarian.
To me, it wasn't a question of

744
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,639
left versus right this election.
It was a question of authority

745
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,159
versus anti authority and
populism and the people saying,

746
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,920
I'm sick and tired of everyone
telling us the way that we

747
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,880
should think and ignoring our
own eyes and what's in front of

748
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,239
us and we want to do something
about that.

749
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,159
And it felt like there was a
really strong coalition that was

750
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,600
also trying to emphasize that.
And unfortunately, you see how

751
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,600
powerful the machine is and it
won't go down without a fight

752
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,880
that even with such a powerful
coalition, the second that it

753
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,400
started or after a couple of
months and listen, you know

754
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,080
what, again, you want to be
hopeful you got three more kinds

755
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,360
of three more years left.
So see it at the midterms.

756
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,320
But you know, like I but I think
that the the roof is kind of

757
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,520
blown open now.
I think that people are aware

758
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,480
now and it's causing widespread
schizophrenia almost among

759
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,400
Americans.
We don't know what to believe.

760
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,960
We don't know what's true.
We don't know what to BS or not.

761
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,240
We don't know whether Trump is a
hero or a villain or a moron or

762
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:20,040
a brilliant 4D chess player.
We don't know if, you know, the

763
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,680
people running the news networks
are full of crap or if people

764
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,520
are running podcast shows are
full of crap now.

765
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,040
And, and like no one kind of
knows where to go and it's

766
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,640
chaotic and it's messy and it's
really, it's scary.

767
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:39,480
I think that this is like the,
the like America's kind of just

768
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,920
shattered and it's and, and what
whatever is going to.

769
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:44,840
And we're, we're, we're in a
stage right now where you got to

770
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,880
pick ourselves back up and put
the pieces back together.

771
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,400
And we don't know what that's
going to look like yet, but I,

772
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,240
I, I really feel like, I think a
lot of people really feel like

773
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,800
they do know what they want.
They want opportunity.

774
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,400
They like they, we've been told
for so many years, play this

775
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,880
game, get a good degree, you
know, work for a couple of

776
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,760
years, save up money and you can
put a down pin on the House.

777
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,920
No, you can't.
And then when you again now what

778
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,400
do you do?
So, you know, so I'm really so

779
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,320
so I, I, even though we're in a
scary time and it's very

780
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,320
turbulent, I think that it's
giving us the opportunity to be

781
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,720
unburdened by the weight of the
success that we've had.

782
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,600
Knock some humility back into
US.

783
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Hey, we could be wrong.
Hey, not we don't have the

784
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,920
answers to everything.
I don't know is a really good

785
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,920
thing to say.
Let's figure it out together is

786
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,280
a really good thing to say.
And then let's see what comes

787
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,840
from there, you know?
Yeah, I totally agree.

788
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,240
And I think what by totally
agree, what I especially agree

789
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:39,000
with is it's always good to face
a challenge and have adversity.

790
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,520
It never actually is a problem.
And also my underlying faith is

791
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,960
like, this is but a dream.
This is but one life.

792
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,880
Like I don't, I don't actually
matter.

793
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,840
I really am the statistic Joseph
Stalin referred to, you know,

794
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,360
like when I die, it will be a
tragedy to whoever calls it

795
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,480
that, who knows me personally,
but it's not really a tragedy.

796
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,960
I just lived my life and my life
was as fruitful and productive

797
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,720
as it felt to me.
It's an experiential process.

798
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,120
But one of the things I taught,
my favorite thing to ever teach,

799
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,080
my first class I ever got to
teach was collegiate critical

800
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,760
thinking skills.
And it was especially logical

801
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,800
fallacies.
That was like the title, the

802
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,920
course reader and and and so the
biggest logical fallacy in our

803
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,200
country is this lesser of two
evil argument.

804
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,440
And that's why I'm such a
proponent of like just teaching

805
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,040
children critical thinking.
Had we taught like slippery

806
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,920
slope is not actually true.
Had we taught like all of these

807
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,120
like trite aphorisms that people
throw into like especially

808
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,160
election jingoism, it it would
have made a difference because

809
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,080
people would have realized, oh,
there are viable people.

810
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,240
There are people outside of the
two parties, There are other

811
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:41,240
parties.
There are ways to like cast a

812
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,600
vote in a district level to make
effective change.

813
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,520
But instead most people just
like here the, I mean this, I'm

814
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,360
aging myself, but Mt VS Rock,
the vote, you know, and all that

815
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,520
they do is every four years they
say you got to vote for

816
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,680
President Bill Clinton, Obama,
Bush, Trump.

817
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,680
These are not the people who are
going to create the changes.

818
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,080
They're the people who can help
the change that's coming from

819
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,800
like the bottom up.
So when Trump was elected, I was

820
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,720
not excited only because I
didn't like his shmarmy like way

821
00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:11,040
he talks.
But it wasn't to me.

822
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,520
I wasn't like I, I come from
that Berkeley area.

823
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,480
And so I'm, I'm actually like
very careful to distance myself

824
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,720
from the far left or even like
the remotely normal left because

825
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,320
they never gave him a chance in
the first one.

826
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,240
And then now he's on this
vendetta tour.

827
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,480
So while I while I strongly do
not like what's going on in

828
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,040
politics, I strongly did not
like what was going in politics

829
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,280
my whole life.
I've never really seen a huge

830
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,440
shift.
So I feel like the one thing you

831
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,640
spoke about that that is
alarming to me is I, I was a

832
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,240
part of academia for a while and
it, it did get out of hand.

833
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,920
It really did.
But what doge and, and this

834
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,400
machine did to academia was also
inappropriate and not going to

835
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,480
be helpful.
So like crushing the ivory

836
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,320
tower.
And so now this like there's no

837
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,360
truth.
Don't trust your professors at

838
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,080
Harvard.
Don't trust the person who's on

839
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,920
a podcast like this.
Who can you trust?

840
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,520
What is fake news?
What is real news?

841
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,760
I think critical thinking is the
only.

842
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,240
Solution to all of that.
It really is like the only thing

843
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:14,920
you have to be able to do is
just like think, OK, is it a

844
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,520
good idea to OK, I used to smoke
cigarettes like, and I and I

845
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,320
loved smoking.
It was my favorite thing I've

846
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,160
ever done in my life.
Like literally as stupid as that

847
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,000
sounds, that's how powerful the
addiction of nicotine was and is

848
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,200
to this day.
I saw if.

849
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,840
I'm smoking cigarettes.
I almost commented at the

850
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,000
beginning.
I didn't know if you were like,

851
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,200
like I was AJ.
It's a oh, OK, OK, OK, yeah, so

852
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,320
and so and I did replace smoking
cigarettes with other substances

853
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,720
because I love like I I watched
Kurt Cobain smoke John Lennon in

854
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:46,760
pictures.
Smoke like all my idols because

855
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,080
I was a musician first and
foremost.

856
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,840
My whole life smoked.
And I thought it was like I had

857
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,320
to smoke to whatever critical
thinking to me is understanding

858
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,560
why I don't smoke now like, like
it's it's understanding that of

859
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,280
course I could go down to a
store or buy a pack of

860
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,920
cigarettes and every day would
incrementally get worse.

861
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,640
And then someday in my 60's, the
doctor would be like, well, your

862
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,160
arteries are clogged here, here
and here.

863
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,000
And you have, you know, but.
I used critical thinking to

864
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,200
really analyze, like, what do I
want to be like when I'm older?

865
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,040
Do I want to wheeze?
Like, one of my heroes is Kurt

866
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,760
Vonnegut.
And he wrote this brilliant

867
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,480
essay towards the end of his
life because he smoked his whole

868
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,520
life and lived in his 80s, so he
was my idol.

869
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:20,960
I was like, that's what I'm
going to do.

870
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,680
And then he wrote this essay
about how he couldn't see his

871
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,080
granddaughter's apartment in
college because there was no

872
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,960
elevator, and it was on the 2nd
floor.

873
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,400
And his lungs were so weak he
couldn't climb one flight of

874
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,560
stairs.
And I was like, oh, oh, you quit

875
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,400
smoking.
Not so you don't get lung cancer

876
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,680
and die.
Not so it's not about a heart

877
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:38,600
attack.
It's about like.

878
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,440
Of your life.
Yeah.

879
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,960
And so and so that to me is
critical thinking.

880
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,280
That's what America needs more
of.

881
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,040
And yeah, it's interesting.
When you said like the Trump

882
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,800
thing, I instantly like bristled
because I live in an area where

883
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,120
it's so unheard of to like talk
about him without malice or

884
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,360
great phrase.
Like what you did is actually

885
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,440
the worst crime imaginable
according to consensus.

886
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,360
Does that make sense?
What I'm no, no.

887
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,160
And I like that about you.
And I like that about us.

888
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,960
And I like that.
That's when you said like, we're

889
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,760
I don't think you use the word
kindred spirits.

890
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,800
But like that is the thing I'm
attracted to the most at this

891
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,320
point in in culture and society
in my life is just people who

892
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,480
can understand that it's not
black and white.

893
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,920
It's not Trump is 40 chess.
Trump is the biggest idiot ever.

894
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,200
It's that Trump is Trump and
you're Ephraim Ephraim.

895
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:34,640
And I am Mike and like, and
that's just a complicated thing.

896
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,160
And, you know, to go back to the
marriage, because I think

897
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,720
marriage to me is my greatest
teacher.

898
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,600
It's my whole goal, my whole
life was to be married.

899
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,880
And my whole goal now that I'm
married is to make this marriage

900
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,520
last because I love my wife and
she is the one for me.

901
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,480
But it doesn't make it easy.
It doesn't make my personality

902
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,480
and her own personality easy.
And it's only by not using black

903
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,640
white logic that I'm able to
have a great relationship with

904
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,720
my wife.
And and when it gets bad, it's

905
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,880
always because one of us or both
of us are saying something like

906
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,840
you always you are, you know,
these like permanent statements

907
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,800
when we're in permanent beings.
Yeah, yeah, definitely,

908
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,080
definitely.
I yeah, yeah.

909
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,280
Marriage is marriage is a trip,
man.

910
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,800
Marriage is a marriage is a
trip.

911
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,760
And you know what?
I and I and I actually, and I

912
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,600
think that, I mean, we can kind
of get into this.

913
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,760
I actually, I do want to talk to
you about music a bunch

914
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:34,840
actually, too.
I I think that the problem that

915
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,160
a lot of people have, and I
think we talked about this when

916
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,480
we spoke last, is that a lot of
times we kind of jump into

917
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,760
things in life without having a
solid understanding of what we

918
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,520
want or a definition of what it
is we're experiencing.

919
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,280
You know, and a lot of times if
you ask someone what they want

920
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,720
out of a marriage, I don't even
know why they're getting married

921
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,720
as opposed to dating forever,
moving in together.

922
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,160
Well, what makes marriage
different than anything else?

923
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,400
Or do you want a marriage to be
a whole life thing?

924
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,640
Do you expect to get married 234
times?

925
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,720
Is that something you want?
Is that maybe something you're

926
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:06,440
looking for?
I don't know.

927
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,840
But I think that we kind of jump
into these or we look at these,

928
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,640
we look at different parts of
our lives, like milestones,

929
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,120
graduate college, get married.
And like these checkpoints are

930
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,200
supposed to mean that we have
now reached a certain level of

931
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:25,440
maturity or sophistication or,
or evolution, and you still got

932
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,240
to do all the work.
I have so many friends,

933
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,200
especially coming from the
Orthodox Jewish world that have

934
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,560
gotten married when they were
younger.

935
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,080
And they, they, they thought
that and they were having a hard

936
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,440
time with their identity of
finding themselves with their

937
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,680
passions or, or, you know,
whatever it was.

938
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,400
And they thought that getting
married would solve those

939
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,080
problems, period.
Like, I am unhappy, I am lonely.

940
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,600
I have this XY and Z, you know,
not great behavior, you know,

941
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,640
like I'm feeling not great about
where I am with my life or where

942
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,320
where I want to go with my life.
You know what, let me try

943
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,440
getting married.
Maybe that'll help.

944
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,200
And you gotta do a lot of them
We.

945
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,120
Have another kid.
Yeah, exactly.

946
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,840
Yeah, exactly.
And I think I said this with

947
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,160
you, if you wait to ask the
questions till you're already in

948
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,640
the middle of it, you're too
late.

949
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,200
If you wait to ask the question,
what does it mean to be a good

950
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,440
husband after you got married
screwed man, what are you going

951
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,560
to do?
You know, you guys, what does it

952
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,560
mean to be a good dad?
And you and you don't know until

953
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,920
you have a 5 year old.
Guess what that five year old

954
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,520
just went through five years, 5
integral years of having a dad

955
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,040
that had no idea what it meant
to be a dad.

956
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,560
So I think that, so I think that
we have to kind of like define

957
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,720
the terms of what we're, of what
we're looking for and what we're

958
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,440
looking to accomplish before we
kind of go ahead with anything.

959
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,880
And it just goes back to that
thoughtfulness and just goes

960
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,200
back to that thinking a couple
of steps ahead of what you just

961
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,880
feel like right now.
And we're just short term.

962
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,920
If we could just gain the wisdom
of the East.

963
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,160
And that's like, it's so funny
because like, again, you grew up

964
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,720
in America and there's no other
world.

965
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,080
There are other parts of the
planet except for America.

966
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,160
You don't learn about, you maybe
learn a little bit about Europe.

967
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,760
You don't know anything about
the East.

968
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,720
You don't know, like you told
me, I want to hear about

969
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,800
Thailand too, you know, and I
want to hear about about what it

970
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,320
was like living there.
But there's so much wisdom and

971
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,320
these people have been around
for thousands and thousands of

972
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,120
years and we're 250 freaking
years old and we can't get our

973
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,800
own crap together.
So like, you know, But like, so

974
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,280
yeah, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I
wanna kind of transition to

975
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,800
music a little bit because
you've been a lifelong musician

976
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,400
and I'm assuming huge fan of
music.

977
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,400
So who are some of your role
models?

978
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,600
Tell me when you started
playing.

979
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,360
Tell me, tell me a little bit
about your musical career.

980
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,400
Sure, the best way to start the
story is with a pat story my

981
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,640
mother always told me, which is
when I was a little kid, before

982
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,920
I could talk, I would stand up
in my crib and sing verbatim

983
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,360
songs that I'd heard.
So I always had like a musical

984
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,960
ear and a musical mind.
My grandmother was a prodigious

985
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,160
piano player.
She was not a career musician or

986
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,120
anything like that, but she was
self trained, taught herself by

987
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,800
ear, and she was just like
great.

988
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,960
So I would visit my grandparents
often in Tampa, FL and they had

989
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,560
a piano in the house and I would
just start tinkling around on it

990
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,880
and I would start writing songs.
And I didn't even know that I

991
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,720
was doing that 'cause, you know,
kids are just innocently

992
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,560
bumbling around.
But as I looked back on my life,

993
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,560
it was clear that I really liked
composing and creating music.

994
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,280
And this is going to come into
play as I give this story

995
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,280
because I'm now a professional
writer and what I've carried

996
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,080
through in every career I've had
is writing, composing, making

997
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,600
like.
So it's like writing song lyrics

998
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,360
was as fun as writing the
melodies.

999
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,840
Performing was never fun.
I don't love getting on a stage,

1000
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,320
no.
So I was in a band and we were

1001
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,640
playing in New York City and our
last show ever, my parents went

1002
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,000
to it and it was in New York
City.

1003
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,120
It was like our dream, you know,
it was like one of those check

1004
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,560
boxes in the career of a band.
Like we finally got good enough

1005
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,840
that we got a Thursday night gig
at an actual club that matters

1006
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,320
in Manhattan.
We were like thrilled beyond

1007
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,240
words.
We drove, you know, 4 hours in a

1008
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,320
van with all our equipment.
We loaded up, we had an album

1009
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,840
out.
We were like really actually on

1010
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,800
our way.
Like I know now as an adult,

1011
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,440
like we were not many people get
to our level and then quit.

1012
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,720
Many people get to our level and
make the next level.

1013
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,560
But we were definitely like
actually doing what a real band

1014
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,640
is supposed to do to get
successful.

1015
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,640
And my parents came to me after
the show and they said, look,

1016
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,040
your guys music is great, but
like you look like you're angry

1017
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,160
on stage.
And it's not like it's not a

1018
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,720
look that we've seen.
Like we've seen you do other

1019
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:07,720
things and you look happy and
like you don't look happy.

1020
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,680
And I and now there was like a
subtext to that, which is our

1021
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,440
band was fighting all the time.
So I was actually in like a

1022
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,400
horrible mood that night.
But they weren't wrong.

1023
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,720
I't seen it.
It wasn't like, what's that?

1024
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,720
Were you the lead guy or vocals
or what?

1025
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,960
Was the lead singer and
songwriter and like main do you

1026
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,080
or did?
You, you play you, you, you.

1027
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,560
Did you play rhythm guitar or
did you focus more on soloing?

1028
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:31,480
Well, it's both.
I mean, I was, we had another

1029
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,400
guy who played keyboard or
guitar depending on the song.

1030
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,160
So yeah, generally in all of the
bands I've played and I've done

1031
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,880
both.
I was a lead guitarist in my

1032
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,040
earlier years because I was
better than other guitarist and

1033
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,760
that's usually what makes you a
lead guitarist.

1034
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,200
But once I always say this to
people like the people who like

1035
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,480
brag about how good they are
guitar, it's like really silly

1036
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,200
to me.
There is like a level that is

1037
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,480
elite, like Eddie Van Halen, Joe
Satriani, the guy Steve.

1038
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,480
I like these these people who
spend 12 to 15 hours alone in a

1039
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,560
room just practicing classical
music and warmups.

1040
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,280
Slash is another one.
Actually.

1041
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,160
He's like remarkably talented
beyond the average.

1042
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,720
But otherwise you're just a
guitarist.

1043
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,680
Like it's not that hard.
Like I can play any song

1044
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,960
anyone's ever written before
except like Spanish Caravan by

1045
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,280
Robbie Krieger from the doors.
And like, you know, there's like

1046
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,480
a few like ones that involve
like, you know, certain things I

1047
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,920
just didn't practice enough.
But but also they were like

1048
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,680
along my career playing music, I
would meet guitarist who are way

1049
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,280
better than me, like way, way
way better.

1050
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,400
But I would like write better
songs than that.

1051
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,760
And so like you complement each
other.

1052
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,960
So my main, yes, I was the front
man of a band, but I should not

1053
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,800
have been, I should have always
been the second front man.

1054
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,560
I should have been the Keith
Richards to the Mick Jagger.

1055
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,800
The that's, that's my role in
life.

1056
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,480
Yeah, yeah, I'm a, I'm a vice
principal.

1057
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,840
I'm a, I'm a, like everything
I've ever achieved in life, I've

1058
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,200
always been #2 like, it's just
like this thing where I've,

1059
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,280
because I don't like being in
charge.

1060
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,040
I don't like being a boss.
I don't like power.

1061
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,440
I I don't like telling my
daughters no.

1062
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,400
I don't like that despite what
my daughters and wife would tell

1063
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,600
you, I don't like telling them
no.

1064
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,600
I was just like laughing 'cause
I keep talking about marriage

1065
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,440
and like they would just be
shaking their head back.

1066
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,280
Dad loves I have a song I wrote.
I write children songs for my

1067
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,920
kids I don't like put them on
YouTube and stuff.

1068
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,720
I'm not like going to do that
probably actually, there's one,

1069
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,520
but the point is I write them
with my skill children and I'm

1070
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,880
trying to, you know, help
influence their music careers

1071
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,640
and or their love of music
rather.

1072
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,680
And my daughter's favorite song
that she and I wrote together is

1073
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,120
called Daddy says no.
So I'm laughing extra large

1074
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,840
because the song is Daddy says
no, I just want to GoDaddy says

1075
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,320
no, I don't want to grow up.
Daddy says no, You know, it's

1076
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,560
just like a joke.
But but yeah, I've always

1077
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,720
migrated to the number two
position because I'm super,

1078
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:43,360
super, super organized and I'm
really good at like anything's

1079
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,000
done and I have good people
skills.

1080
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,400
So I'm a great person to take
advantage of in any company or

1081
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,160
structure.
Like I'm, I'm exactly what you

1082
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,520
want.
I will show up on time.

1083
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,120
I'm paranoid of it offending the
employees and my bosses and the

1084
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,400
clients.
You know, like I'm just like a

1085
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,560
very people oriented person.
I'm not a people pleaser to a

1086
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,160
detrimental level because I
worked on it, but I am a people

1087
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,920
pleaser.
I'm like a person who wasn't as

1088
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,360
popular as I wanted to be.
So I always thought, well, the

1089
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,720
way to be popular is just to be
nice.

1090
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:15,680
It's true, it works, but you
also can't be nice at the point

1091
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,600
of like detrimentally affecting
other people.

1092
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,120
So I had to learn how to tell
people, you know, I don't like

1093
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:21,800
what you're doing.
I don't like this.

1094
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,600
You're good, but you need to
work like I run a writing

1095
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,160
workshop now and the reason
people tell me they respect me

1096
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,480
and like me and keep coming back
is that I'm pretty harsh.

1097
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,320
Like I'm, I'm actually a
teacher.

1098
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,120
I tell them like this piece is
OK, but you should edit and come

1099
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:41,040
back like it's missing this.
And so with music, it was really

1100
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:46,640
hard because I, I, it's really
hard to be in a band.

1101
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,760
Like my drummer had a on and off
again, drinking issue.

1102
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,440
He's fine now.
He's not, you know, our bass

1103
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,120
player was dating our guitar
player.

1104
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,760
They were a couple that had met
in grad school and she was like

1105
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,400
way better at music.
Than he.

1106
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,600
Was and so like we needed her in
the band because she was the

1107
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,880
second best player.
I mean her we complemented each

1108
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,960
other like perfectly, but she
was a total pain in my ass.

1109
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,960
I mean, she was just like not
and she was like a Cornell like

1110
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,280
scientist.
So she was like this like nerdy

1111
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,040
smart girl who like would would
like show up to band practice

1112
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,760
right on time after like
collecting herbs in a forest.

1113
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,440
Like she was just like, you
know, And so like it was like I

1114
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,960
was the only type A person like
there.

1115
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,440
I don't know if Type A is the
right word, but I was the only

1116
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,800
like, you know, Yeah, but then.
But meanwhile, and this is where

1117
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,440
the story gets weird, I wasn't
respecting the guy who played

1118
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,200
keyboard and guitar for
everything he was doing.

1119
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,040
He was writing amazing songs.
He was learning and getting

1120
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,320
better at his instruments,
plural, every day.

1121
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,200
He was sending out demo and
press kits as before, Like the

1122
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,880
Internet was a viable option for
bands.

1123
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,840
You had to, like, physically
mail CDs you made and, like,

1124
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,800
approach venues with a demo.
It was like a totally different

1125
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,600
world.
And he was doing all that.

1126
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,560
So, like, I just wish I could go
back in time.

1127
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,720
I know we're all still friends
except the bassist.

1128
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,480
She disappeared off the face of
the earth.

1129
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,760
But we're still good friends.
I, I, I love the person who I

1130
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,160
started the band with, the
drummer and the other guitarist

1131
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,200
and I learned so much from it.
It was definitely the path to

1132
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,280
success.
If I want to go back in time and

1133
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,840
say like this is where I went
wrong, I didn't go wrong.

1134
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,160
But we should have stayed
together.

1135
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,920
We were like way more talented
after two years of playing

1136
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,440
together than most bands are
after five.

1137
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,120
We were totally professional.
We we lived in the same house

1138
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,160
and practice hours everyday.
Our album still holds up in my

1139
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,080
opinion.
I got to get.

1140
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,520
Yeah, I got some time.
You got to.

1141
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:32,720
I got to give.
Them I'll send you Yeah.

1142
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:34,680
There's a SoundCloud where I
have it up because I don't, you

1143
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,240
know, I'm not going to mail you
a CD.

1144
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:37,440
No offense.
I just don't even know where

1145
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,040
they are.
Yeah.

1146
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,560
No, no, I'm like.
So, yeah, as I get older and as

1147
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,520
I like, I'm at the edge of the
Cliff.

1148
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,320
I'm 44.
I just don't care that much

1149
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,160
about myself anymore.
It's really sad.

1150
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,320
It's actually, like hard to
admit that I actually don't care

1151
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,520
that much.
Like, I just, it doesn't matter.

1152
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,680
Like, it's like this weird stage
in life where you, like, start

1153
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,960
looking at all these things
you've collected, like penance

1154
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,800
from a stadium.
You went to, like, all these

1155
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,320
things and then you're just
like, who am I saving this for?

1156
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,160
Like, who?
Like I thought this was for the

1157
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,200
guy who was going to archive me
because I was going to be the

1158
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,120
most famous person in the world
because that was like, oops, I

1159
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,760
dropped my headphone.
I didn't want to be the most

1160
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,600
famous person in the world.
It's very important for, like,

1161
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:14,800
people who are young to
understand this.

1162
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,760
I actually thought I was going
to be like, that's the level of

1163
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,280
my ego.
Like it's not, it's a feeling

1164
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,160
you have and when you read
people who are like super

1165
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,200
successful, they all have it.
So it's like a similar quality I

1166
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,400
have to these other people.
But the difference is the only

1167
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,880
person I could really relate to
is Keith Richards Autobiography

1168
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,520
is one of the best books I've
ever read in my life.

1169
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,520
It's just my whole life.
He's just a deeply

1170
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,520
philosophical, wise man who
happened to also just get into

1171
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,680
drugs and alcohol and booze and
but guitar was his through line.

1172
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,000
He's mortal.
Yeah, he the book is one of the

1173
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,200
best books.
He's never going to go.

1174
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,440
He's never going to go.
He's he's going to kick around

1175
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,040
for a long, long time.
If you read the book, it is

1176
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,960
remarkable how different he is
from.

1177
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,200
It is so worth reading.
I was blown.

1178
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,640
I'm not a Rolling Stones fan.
I'm like, I've mentioned them

1179
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,400
only because I read his
autobiography and it changed.

1180
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,080
It changed me for the better.
Yeah, I'm.

1181
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,080
I'm like, Rolling Stones are OK.
I'm.

1182
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,960
I'm a Beatles guy.
If I, you know, between the two

1183
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,120
because my parents were there,
but I are better than OK.

1184
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,640
I mean, they're great, but like,
it's not about the music for me.

1185
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,480
It's about what the difference
between him and Mick Jagger is,

1186
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,240
which is like he would have just
been fine playing guitar in his

1187
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:25,040
poverty.
He was super poor growing up.

1188
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,120
I mean, just horrible childhood
and he would've been fine with

1189
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:29,120
that.
Mick Jagger would not have been

1190
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,400
fine.
Mick Jagger was like, I'm going

1191
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,520
to Business School.
I'm getting an MB AI went to the

1192
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,520
finest high school in London.
My parents have money, you know,

1193
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,160
blah, blah, blah, and that's why
they fought so much in the even

1194
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,440
at one point, like Pseudo broke
up without announcing it to

1195
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,600
their fans.
Is that Mick Jagger?

1196
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,200
It was never enough.
And it was always like we have

1197
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,160
to have the number one record.
We have to and you can see it to

1198
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,640
this day, like the way they
tour.

1199
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,560
So when I'm relating like music,
I'm like a Keith Richards.

1200
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,840
I just love music.
I just love music so much.

1201
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,880
It's like all I care about when
it comes down to it.

1202
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:03,360
Like I would give up so many
things before I would give up,

1203
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,040
like the ability to hear and
love music, so.

1204
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,920
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Influences.

1205
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,320
Yeah.
Yeah, influences.

1206
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,040
Tell me, tell me some influences
of yours and and in what way

1207
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,840
they influenced you because I'm
more interested in that.

1208
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,720
Like, yeah, I'm interested in
the, you know, the fact that

1209
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,520
James Taylor is associated with
an ex-girlfriend or you know

1210
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,800
that and like and and those
associations and memories or

1211
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,280
what?
Because I'm also finding that,

1212
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,920
you know, for example, I'm a
huge Springsteen nut or I was, I

1213
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,960
still am, but I kind of, I've
overdid his music a little bit.

1214
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:37,040
And, and there was a point of my
life where his, where his music

1215
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,400
is what I needed.
Like I really, really did.

1216
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,720
And like, it spoke to me about
that particular point of my life

1217
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,000
and, and, and it helped me
discover myself, aspects of

1218
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,400
myself that I couldn't figure
out how to put words to.

1219
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,880
And then and then the music and
the lyrics were able to help me

1220
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,480
be like, that's me.
Like I didn't even know the

1221
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,680
whole time, but that's me too.
And like, and that's why these

1222
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,640
people sell out.
That's why these people, I don't

1223
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,720
even sell out in a negative way.
Sell out, stadium, sell out.

1224
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:06,680
You know, like The Rolling
Stones, I won't stop playing

1225
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,760
when they're 100 years old.
That Springsteen's still going

1226
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,280
is because this is a absolute.
Like, there, there's something

1227
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,720
in you that the only way you can
express yourself is by sharing

1228
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:18,040
and performing and playing.
And the only way for the

1229
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:22,120
audience to not the only way,
but a very potent way and a

1230
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,720
unique way to feel yourself and
to recognize new aspects of

1231
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:28,280
yourself is by participating.
So who are some of your

1232
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,200
influences and in what way?
Yeah, that's a great question.

1233
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,360
And the way you framed it is
great because it makes it easier

1234
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,200
to answer it.
One of the things I will say

1235
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,360
just about audiences and
performances, you know, even

1236
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,520
back in like when they try to
figure out what went wrong and

1237
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,080
right with the Incas and the
Mayans and the Aztecs.

1238
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,240
The one thing they all have in
common and the Greeks had is

1239
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,360
they would build like huge
amphitheaters to create like

1240
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,240
giant sound places because you
could smoke all the pot in the

1241
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:52,800
world you want.
You could do any psychedelic you

1242
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,360
want.
Music is the drug.

1243
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,200
I mean, if you want to like
actually change your brain

1244
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,800
chemistry and feel high, just go
to a large, large audience

1245
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,000
that's all singing the same
words.

1246
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,520
I mean that hypnotic trance that
Bruce being seen and Mick Jagger

1247
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,440
lead, they are but leaders of
it.

1248
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,240
You know, it's like, it's really
Pearl Jam was one of my favorite

1249
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:12,320
bands to see live when I was in
my 20s because they really pull

1250
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,160
it off.
They just have these like, like

1251
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:15,760
songs that everyone knows the
words too.

1252
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,280
And that's the best part of a
concert to me is when everyone

1253
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,280
around you is is screaming.
Like radio has the other band

1254
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,240
I've seen the most.
And just like when everyone's

1255
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,160
like saying like singing karma
police together and you know

1256
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,920
that you all get the joke and
it's not even a joke.

1257
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,360
It's like real, you know, And
it's like, and you know, my age

1258
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:35,720
again.
You guys are all sharing.

1259
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,120
It's a secret.
Yeah, yeah.

1260
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,320
So my my I guess My
Autobiography of music would be

1261
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,680
Billy Joel was the 1st.
Person I really got into.

1262
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,920
I've been to.
Many of the shows man I.

1263
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,960
I've never seen him.
I've tried to see him so bad.

1264
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,640
Yeah.
And he's done with some brain

1265
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,640
issue.
And he's, oh man, sick.

1266
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,040
Because when you're describing
that piano man dude, I used to

1267
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,000
take.
Yeah, he's.

1268
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,160
Performing monthly in Madison
Square Garden.

1269
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,840
Yeah, like first or second
dates.

1270
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:06,240
I'd be like the way I tested and
then at the end of the concert,

1271
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,920
the lights turn on, he stops
playing and everyone's and by

1272
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,920
the way, happens to be a piano
man.

1273
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:16,480
Like he hates that song.
Everyone is singing it and like

1274
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,480
you're just like sharing.
And that's it's awesome.

1275
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,680
So Billy Joel is, but his deep
tracks have a lot of very

1276
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,840
emotional, a very heavy,
emotional, eloquent songs.

1277
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,320
Awesome stuff.
Also, as a guitarist, Glass

1278
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,840
House is just a guitar driven
album and it's incredible.

1279
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,040
So I know he's known for his
piano stuff, but I mean it's

1280
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,920
still rock'n'roll to me.
Big Shot, My Life, like those

1281
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,720
are all like great guitar songs.
So yeah, yeah.

1282
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,240
So Billy Joel was the first.
Then I got into just my parents

1283
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,400
record collection, which
involved Billy Joel, but it was

1284
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,360
just The Beatles, The Who, The
Rolling Stones a little bit, but

1285
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,320
really The Beatles and The Who
and The Doors.

1286
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,720
The Doors was my first like my
band because my parents had them

1287
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,200
but they weren't bands.
So I got really into Jim

1288
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,360
Morrison.
I would like read his like

1289
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,680
poetry books.
I was hell bent on what's that?

1290
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:08,240
What are you thinking?
Child and he's immature and I

1291
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,680
wish I'd picked the better idol.
I mean, honestly, that's what I

1292
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,920
think about him.
I think, I think anyone when

1293
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,480
they're 21 can like, twist words
the way he did and impress

1294
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,320
people who are 21.
And since I love them when I was

1295
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,120
like, I mean, yeah, basically
they marketed to like 12 year

1296
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:23,400
olds.
They're like Saturday Night Live

1297
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,280
of bands.
Like, they're, it's just like a

1298
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,400
childhood thing.
But Jim Morrison, like, I mean,

1299
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,360
first of all, I didn't like my
body and I didn't like the way I

1300
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:31,840
looked.
And he looked perfect on that

1301
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,120
first album.
And then it was just like the

1302
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,960
peyote and the wisdom and loving
Native Americans is something

1303
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,000
I've always felt like really
deeply about.

1304
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,760
But I still like their music.
And don't get me wrong.

1305
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,360
And The thing is, I do love
jazz.

1306
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,800
And I love, like, Ray Manzarks,
an amazing guitar keyboardist

1307
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,280
and Robbie Krieger on the
guitar.

1308
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,960
So like the three piece.
They actually have two albums

1309
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,960
after he died.
They're awful.

1310
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,840
But they're also like, you're
like, oh, yeah, you guys are

1311
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,080
amazing.
It's just like, sorry, you're

1312
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:01,680
missing, like this great booming
voice.

1313
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,640
But, you know, there's a reason
LA Women, all their best songs

1314
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,600
are 12 minutes long.
And it's because Jim shuts up

1315
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:10,840
and the band, like, rocks.
So it is.

1316
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,680
It's funny that if you really
analyze like what made The Doors

1317
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,560
great, it was just like Jim
being a front man and then

1318
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,400
stepping aside.
And even he knew that, to be

1319
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,840
honest, I don't think he was as
ego driven as people make him

1320
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,440
out to be.
So yeah, The Doors.

1321
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,240
But then Kurt Cobain is what
changed my whole life.

1322
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,680
Kurt Cobain, he's anti
establishment.

1323
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,880
He loved punk rock, he was cool,
he was different.

1324
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,760
All these people who I didn't
like hated him.

1325
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,280
So that made him even cooler to
me.

1326
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,080
MTV was scared of him.
He wore a dress and talked about

1327
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,680
like, gay people as if they're
OK, which, you know, again,

1328
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,960
growing up in Berkeley, Oakland,
like, it was always like, I was

1329
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,760
always preoccupied with worrying
and thinking I was gay.

1330
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,400
And because I technically I'm
not it.

1331
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,800
I just have a huge compassion
for children and that struggle

1332
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,800
they go through because of the
way people talk about it.

1333
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,080
And I think Kurt Cobain did a
great job.

1334
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,240
Like he wrote in his liner notes
on this album.

1335
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,800
If you're the kind of person who
would like call someone AFAG and

1336
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,000
like, you know, bully people,
like he just wrote this like

1337
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,400
manifesto, like don't buy this
album and don't give us any

1338
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,600
money and don't come, for God's
sakes, please don't come to our

1339
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,600
concerts.
Like he was like, actually not

1340
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,800
willing to like, you know, and
actually, this is weird.

1341
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,800
This reminds me of Donald Trump.
And what I don't like about

1342
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,040
Donald Trump, this is the thing
I'd like dislike about him the

1343
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,120
most.
He won't disavow people who

1344
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,600
aren't on his ethical line
because he cares more about

1345
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,560
power and getting elected.
I get it.

1346
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,640
I mean, I understand that.
I think Kamala Harris, to be

1347
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,160
fair, probably has the same
approach.

1348
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,280
I'm not like.
It's it's a game.

1349
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,960
It's the game.
Yeah, it's a game, yeah, but.

1350
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,600
And the game.
So I love Kurt Cobain because he

1351
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,440
didn't play that game.
He typically said that and.

1352
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:42,960
And the record label did not
want to print it.

1353
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,160
And he's like, well, then you
can't make this album.

1354
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,400
Like, I'm not signing off on it.
You have to put this letter in.

1355
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,280
And it was a big deal.
So, you know, and he he did the

1356
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,280
acoustic thing on MTV, but
instead of playing all his own

1357
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,120
songs, he did like, mostly
covers and he and he did covers

1358
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,200
of people from Seattle who never
made it.

1359
01:01:58,200 --> 01:01:59,600
He tried to help all the other
people.

1360
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,400
Yeah.
So yeah.

1361
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,360
No Kurt Cobain.
There's a reason I think kids

1362
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,160
worship him nowadays.
There's like there's also some

1363
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,280
weird apocryphal rumors that are
not true about him.

1364
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:09,600
Like people try to say like, oh,
he was.

1365
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,360
Yeah.
Like I've heard people from the

1366
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,640
trans community say that he was
like pro trans and trans.

1367
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,680
He wasn't.
It's not that he was anti trans,

1368
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,880
just like no one talked about
that back then.

1369
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,560
That was not at all.
Yeah.

1370
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,320
So.
So it's not, I'm not disparaging

1371
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,560
trans people at all.
What I am saying is sorry he was

1372
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:29,880
concerned about specifically LGB
not fatigue.

1373
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,760
So we didn't even have that
acronym when he died like he

1374
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,920
when he killed himself that
acronym didn't even exist.

1375
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,800
Just to make it clear what I'm
trying to say but but but

1376
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,000
anyway.
So he died.

1377
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,440
It was a.
Huge moment for me.

1378
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,280
I wouldn't say I would have
committed suicide if not for

1379
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,400
that, but I would definitely say
that I never got to the three

1380
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,200
steps that are closest to it
because of that.

1381
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,120
Like it because of him, I never
tried heroin and I never took

1382
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,120
suicidal thoughts seriously
enough to even start to approach

1383
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,280
them as real.
And so it's like a service he

1384
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,000
did to me.
But I still to this day feel

1385
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,400
plagued that man.
I mean, heroin is just like,

1386
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,240
it's amazing how many people
that takes down.

1387
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,320
And so I was really getting into
drugs when I was way too young

1388
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,840
to get into them.
And that's because I grew up in

1389
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:19,280
the Berkeley area.
You know, again, like these,

1390
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,680
like I don't talk up to the
California everyone I know from

1391
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:27,640
California, from the cities, San
Francisco and and LA, we all try

1392
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,960
drugs and alcohol too young.
We all like it's just not good.

1393
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,880
It's not actually a good idea.
I'm terribly worried about these

1394
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,920
ads for like pot and stuff that
are on like billboards because

1395
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,360
when I was a kid, they actually
banned like you couldn't

1396
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,880
advertise alcohol on TV.
Like I actually think those were

1397
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,240
good laws.
I'm a little weirded out that

1398
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,240
they got rid of them all.
But I don't think kids need to

1399
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,720
see, you know, my daughters have
never seen me smoke.

1400
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,840
And I'm doing that intentionally
because, like, alcohol was hard

1401
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,000
enough for me as a kid, Like to
understand, like, why are my

1402
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,720
parents having this drink that I
can't have?

1403
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,880
Why do they act weird?
You know, just that like

1404
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,400
bubbling curiosity.
So it's not that I think like it

1405
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,960
should be taboo, but I
definitely think we're overdoing

1406
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:11,400
the like I'm not such a tangent
cuz you asked me about bands,

1407
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:12,960
but I do care so much about this
I just feel like.

1408
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,960
This is great.
This is exactly the way the.

1409
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,480
Conversations go.
The only mainstream thing I

1410
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:19,520
watch is sports.
That's it.

1411
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:24,360
There's nothing else I watch.
I just am really into sports

1412
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,040
because it's well, and it's
starting to lose this, but it's

1413
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:28,720
one of the last things that
isn't like tainted.

1414
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,400
It's not like reality TV.
It's not it's not fake yet.

1415
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,640
I'm saying yeah, because I
actually think they're really

1416
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,680
trying their best to engineer
outcomes of games now with

1417
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,120
referees, but.
We're seeing a lot of that on

1418
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,520
me.
Yeah, I mean, like way too many

1419
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,560
times to call it.
It's like, remember five years

1420
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,400
ago when people were like, is my
phone listening to me?

1421
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:45,720
Is this?
And now no one says that.

1422
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,040
Everyone's like, of course it's.
Listening to you.

1423
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,280
That's how I feel about sports.
Like, are these refs

1424
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,320
intentionally altering the ends
of games?

1425
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,960
Like that was the question for
the last 5-6 years.

1426
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,880
I think after this year, it's
kind of like, yeah, they are

1427
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,120
like, you got to be so much
better than the other team now

1428
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:03,040
to win that the refs can't make
it something they can, you know,

1429
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,120
finesse.
So anyway, the what I was

1430
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,680
bringing that up for though, is
that's the only time I see ads.

1431
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,000
Like the only time I see real
ads is when I watch the the NFL

1432
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,880
especially.
And all it is, is ads for

1433
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:19,320
pharmaceuticals, alcohol, junk
food, not weed yet because they

1434
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,520
haven't passed that law yet.
But you know, it's coming.

1435
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,680
And my point is it's just like
it's so in the military, the ads

1436
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:29,080
for ice in the military and
Department of Homeland Security.

1437
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,960
And it's just like, oh God, how
are kids supposed to like

1438
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,600
innocently watch this?
Like none of these ads are for

1439
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:37,360
kids.
They're all for adults.

1440
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,680
And so I don't know, I just,
but, but oddly enough, drinking

1441
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,200
is down among young people.
Oddly enough, smoking pot is way

1442
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,320
up.
So it's funny that what I'm

1443
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:51,200
watching in our culture is just
which accelerator of of escapism

1444
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,560
it gets pressed.
You know, like gambling, the the

1445
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,280
proliferation of gambling.
Is AB control by the gambling is

1446
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,840
scary as hell because the
gambling it's gone to it's gone

1447
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:03,480
to a different degree.
I think that the more the the

1448
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,920
the more you make these things
accessible and the lower the

1449
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,480
barriers are to the the lower
the cost to entry and the

1450
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,360
barriers to entry.
I mean, you're just, you're

1451
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:16,960
just, and especially because we
are like, I am bombed even with,

1452
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:18,720
I have a medical marijuana card,
right?

1453
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,240
And I have a dispense and
there's a couple of dispensaries

1454
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,080
locally that I go to and I, I
won't be thinking about weed all

1455
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,480
day.
And I'll get 6 notifications

1456
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,640
about deals they're having and
six, you know, emails and texts

1457
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,840
and, and notifications, push
notifications in the app.

1458
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,480
And I'm like, like, and then I'm
like, yeah, you know, I kind of

1459
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:36,800
wanted that.
And I'm like, what are they

1460
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:38,760
doing?
What am I doing to myself?

1461
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:42,080
This is crazy, you know, but,
but as far, actually, I'm

1462
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,800
curious because I'm really, I
want to, I want to keep on the

1463
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,200
music conversation for a little
bit more, yeah.

1464
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:49,480
A lot more I could have.
Saw.

1465
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Did you read Wonderland Ave.

1466
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,160
that book?
No, no, it's.

1467
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,920
About a guy, Danny Sugarman, who
is the man the publicist for The

1468
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:04,080
Doors and he was in high school
while he was he was like 14

1469
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,560
while he was a public, he was a
publicist.

1470
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,400
And the first half of the book
is about all the inspiration and

1471
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,080
beautiful motivation that goes
into like understanding what

1472
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,160
about rock and the doors and
about you know that culture and

1473
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,760
music meant to a kid like him
with ADD that his parents got

1474
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,160
divorced and he blamed himself a
huge part, a huge part of it and

1475
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,600
how it is the only escape and
understanding environment that

1476
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,120
he was in and the only thing
that was real and self

1477
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:30,080
expressive.
And then the second-half of the

1478
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,080
book is and then he he goes.
And then I tried heroin.

1479
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,400
And the second-half of the book
is the most heart wrenching,

1480
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:47,920
painful, honest, raw descript
account of a heroin addiction.

1481
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,080
And to see and and to read this
and to think this kid is

1482
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,560
anywhere between 17 and 22 while
this is happening.

1483
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,880
And like, Oh my God.
And you know, I want to

1484
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:00,920
actually, you know, like,
there's got to be something to

1485
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:02,600
there's got to be something to
the 27 club.

1486
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,400
You know, there's got to be
something to be like, you know,

1487
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:08,160
like that 27 club, Janis,
Joplin, Pigpen, you know, Stevie

1488
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,840
Ray Vaughan, Jim Morrison.
Like, there's something about

1489
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,760
these like, like this.
There's something about the the

1490
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:20,080
need to self implode and like,
and I think it's actually a

1491
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,680
deeply human thing, like to self
sabotage ourselves.

1492
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:23,720
I think that's a really big
thing.

1493
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:25,560
Yeah.
I want to talk about that too,

1494
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,120
but do what do you actually.
Yeah.

1495
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:29,920
What do you.
I want to leave off of that, but

1496
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,560
I have to take a two second out
of the bathroom break.

1497
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,120
That's cool.
OK Yeah, yeah.

1498
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:33,880
Go over.
Go with that.

1499
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:34,720
Cool.
All right.

1500
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,880
We're live.
We're back 27 club.

1501
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:39,560
Yeah.
Music.

1502
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,640
Yeah, and what's funny is,
what's her name?

1503
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,640
The British woman with a great
voice also died at 27 recently.

1504
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,160
Amy Winehouse.
Amy Winehouse, and I'm only

1505
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,160
saying this because I think
first of all, we've talked about

1506
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:53,359
frontal cortex, and I'm a real
firm believer in this. 25 is the

1507
01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:55,680
age that actuarial science says
we start making healthy

1508
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,960
decisions.
The decision to kill yourself

1509
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,880
because you're addicted to
something when you're 27 is a

1510
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:05,479
rational, unhealthy decision,
meaning you kind of know by then

1511
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,000
you're like, oh, I'm not going
to solve this.

1512
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,680
Like Keith Richards talks about
this in his Autobot.

1513
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,000
He says, kicking heroin and
staying off heroin was the

1514
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,600
hardest thing I've ever done.
To this day, it's still like a

1515
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,600
thing, you know, And for me,
what's relatable is I still feel

1516
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:17,720
that way about smoking
cigarettes.

1517
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,040
Like, I, I, I don't have to
like, stop myself from smoking

1518
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,479
again.
But like anytime something is

1519
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,920
slightly wrong, I'm just like
well I should stop smoking.

1520
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,680
Like, you know, so I can just.
So I think for Amy Winehouse,

1521
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,479
Jim Morrison, all these people,
you know, especially if you

1522
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,960
start abusing and using even
just drugs at a young age, it's

1523
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,359
such a quick, easy escape
because it does technically

1524
01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:38,720
work.
Whatever your thing is works.

1525
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:39,920
Like for me, alcohol doesn't
work.

1526
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,680
It's never worked.
It gets me drunk, but it does

1527
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,439
not solve the problems that my
brain is.

1528
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,600
Doing.
But we does.

1529
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,240
So, like, you can see how, like,
we're each uniquely.

1530
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,800
For some people, it might be ice
baths, you know, like, like it

1531
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:56,400
doesn't like people find their
fix.

1532
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:58,360
And so we call some of them
healthy and some of them not

1533
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,520
unhealthy.
To me, they're all escapism, but

1534
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,120
at what cost to your body?
So the 27 Club to me is very

1535
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,320
interesting.
It's also weird that 33 is the

1536
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,840
comedy number.
So Belushi, Interesting.

1537
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:09,760
Yeah.
I, I don't.

1538
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,720
It's just.
Yeah, I, I.

1539
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,520
And then you said something else
that reminded me of something

1540
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,240
you should look up.
Oh, just as far as the story of

1541
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:26,640
Jim Morrison, him, he and one of
the Crosby, Stills, Nash guys,

1542
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:28,600
not Neil Young, but one of those
three.

1543
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,600
He and Jim Morrison and someone,
they all grew up in the same LA

1544
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,480
area, and they all had fathers
who were high up in the CIA and

1545
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:36,320
military.
And there's a theory.

1546
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:37,160
Yeah.
OK, so you've heard this.

1547
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,680
I love that conspiracy theory
only because it backfired.

1548
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,840
Like even if it like I want it
to be true just to like show you

1549
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,680
how funny it is when you try to
manipulate society that way.

1550
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,680
So I doubt it is true, but it is
very interesting that they do

1551
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,000
all have that in common.
And then they.

1552
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:54,760
And the reason I mentioned is
how weird is it that a 14 year

1553
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,040
old PR guy was good enough to
get them like, you know what I

1554
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,440
mean?
Like it's so, so.

1555
01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:03,400
Yeah.
So Kurt Cobain, who died at 27,

1556
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:08,400
like a lot of what he taught me
was stick up for what you

1557
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:12,600
believe in, share and bring
others up as you rise.

1558
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,160
So I'm not like a world famous
novelist, but I'm published and

1559
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,240
somewhat successful and I'm
always trying to help people

1560
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,520
under me get published.
Understand how hard it is to get

1561
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,880
published and how much it does
not pay off and like, check your

1562
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,040
dreams.
Can make me feel better about

1563
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:29,440
that.
I appreciate it.

1564
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:33,880
So I self published 4 times and
then I finally got a real

1565
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,920
publishing contract after having
one originally that went belly

1566
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,800
up from the 2009 crisis.
But the point is, I thought this

1567
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,760
is it, I've arrived.
And it was the opposite.

1568
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,000
It was these people just took a
ton of money from me and made

1569
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,800
money off of me and I made even
less than I did self-publishing.

1570
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:53,240
I sold you all my own PR.
You know, the world has really

1571
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:54,800
shifted.
But I did hear this recently and

1572
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,080
I keep hearing this over and
over again.

1573
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:00,560
The only way to make like real
money in this world like Taylor

1574
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,480
Swift level or any of these
people is to convince people

1575
01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:06,320
with money that they will make
tons of money off of you.

1576
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,040
Like it's it's you don't want to
sell your music, you don't want

1577
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:10,960
to sell your novel.
You don't what you want to pitch

1578
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,640
is I'm a money magnet.
Like people will be drawn to me.

1579
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,640
And you can take most of that if
you give me this like chance.

1580
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:21,080
So I say that for young people
out there, if you believe in the

1581
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,480
legacy model of success, which
I, by the way, would not put a

1582
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:26,000
lot of stock into.
I was going to say by that, I

1583
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,680
don't even think most people
even like that's another

1584
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,440
institution that kind of just,
you know, crashing down with

1585
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:33,960
democratization of of media, you
know, is.

1586
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:37,080
Yeah, please.
Well, this is good for.

1587
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:41,520
So we talked about humility and
about like, like, I think it's

1588
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,480
better for all of us to be
nominally successful in relative

1589
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:47,440
spheres.
Like I think like the village

1590
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:49,880
model is the best.
Like, you want to be the best

1591
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,560
guitarist in your village, so
you're playing for your village

1592
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:56,040
at like, events.
But we don't need 1 Taylor Swift

1593
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,320
to conquer every city.
And I'm not she's not a bad

1594
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,560
person from all like everything
I've ever read.

1595
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,680
She's actually a pretty nice,
cool person.

1596
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,960
So please, Taylor, I know you're
watching this podcast and you

1597
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,000
care what I think about you.
I actually think a very high

1598
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:12,760
love you.
But what I am saying is like,

1599
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,000
she would have been fine just
being successful in like a

1600
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,000
little area of her own, you
know, area.

1601
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:20,880
And I think Johnny Carson was
like the peak of that.

1602
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,880
Like, you know, you had to be on
Carson to like make it.

1603
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:27,400
And so this gatekeeper model,
I'm glad that it broke, but I

1604
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,840
also miss sharing culture with
people.

1605
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,280
Like, I deeply miss it.
Like, Radiohead was one of the

1606
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,360
last, like, peak cultural bands
that I'll ever be a member of.

1607
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:40,480
Like that tribe now, Radiohead
would never be as big as they

1608
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:41,680
were.
They would reach like, this

1609
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,200
level, you know?
So I don't know, how do you

1610
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:45,480
feel?
Because you've saw both sides of

1611
01:13:45,480 --> 01:13:47,080
this.
You're just old enough to have

1612
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,280
seen this when it was still
happening.

1613
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:56,520
Listen, I think that so I think
that no matter what, there's

1614
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,160
always going to become
gatekeepers and just, you know,

1615
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,960
and they and they're and I think
just like oil and water, like

1616
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,560
you can mix things up as much as
you as much as you want and for

1617
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,520
a little while, But then at a
certain point everything kind of

1618
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:08,880
rise, you know, like the water
and the oil just end up

1619
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,840
separating.
And like, listen, you can make a

1620
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,480
very strong argument that like
the podcast world has a has some

1621
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:17,360
serious gatekeepers.
Lex Friedman, Joe Rogan, Andrew

1622
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:19,800
Huberman, you know, like, and a
lot of the and a lot of these

1623
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,000
guys.
And by the way, the question is,

1624
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,080
how do you feel about them as
gatekeepers And how do you, and

1625
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,280
do you trust your gatekeepers?
Do you like your gatekeepers?

1626
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:31,880
Are they representative or, or
do they do they reflect what you

1627
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:33,680
believe and what you feel should
be right?

1628
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,560
And then you go ahead and work
with it, You know, And I think

1629
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,640
that I think that that's really
the difference.

1630
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:39,920
I think there's always going to
be gatekeepers.

1631
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,080
The question is whether or not
we respect them, whether or not

1632
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:45,680
we see ourselves in those
gatekeepers because it's a lot.

1633
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:50,000
It's right now I don't think
anyone from any kind of legacy

1634
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,840
studio or media or even even
movies and stuff like that, like

1635
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,640
you have a real issue.
I'm showing my students now Dead

1636
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,880
Poet Society for the first time.
Very cool.

1637
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:00,480
Talk about a movie to change
your life.

1638
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:06,120
My God, and you don't have that,
you know, and like you, you

1639
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:08,240
can't you can't get that anyway,
except you can't get that.

1640
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:09,920
You have to go to a different
gatekeeper.

1641
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,480
You can't go to you know, you
can't go to Warner Brothers and

1642
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:14,840
make that movie anymore in
theaters.

1643
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,000
You got to go to Netflix or
Amazon and make it for streaming

1644
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,280
and that and even though it's
different, it's OK, you know,

1645
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,600
that's it, that's fine.
I think that I think that

1646
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:31,480
there's been here's here's what
I, I think that right now there

1647
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:34,640
are a lot of great cultures and
like movements that are doing

1648
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,120
that are alive and well and that
are very embodied and like have

1649
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:42,640
like a whole community.
I think that it's not where

1650
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,200
we're used to looking.
So like, in other words, you

1651
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:49,680
know, like we're used to looking
at CNN or Fox for, you know, for

1652
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,560
news and we're like, OK, that's
obviously not the new place to

1653
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:52,880
get, that's not the place to get
news anymore.

1654
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:57,160
It hasn't been for a long time.
You know, I'm used to going to a

1655
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,000
Springsteen concert to get, you
know, my, to get the, to get my

1656
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,560
music, you know, fix.
And now tickets are a fortune

1657
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:05,360
and I can't afford to go and
it's a whole trip.

1658
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:07,200
And then, you know, and then you
know, it's in the stadium.

1659
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,280
There's no like, you know, the
legendary shows where the Roxy,

1660
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,360
you know, the legendary shows
where, where the little places

1661
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:15,240
are the troubadour, you know, or
something like that.

1662
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:19,920
Mad Max's and so and and you do
have those kind of movements.

1663
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,880
It's just not where people are
used to looking.

1664
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:25,280
So I think that I think that
these do still exist in like an

1665
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,720
alternative way.
Billy Strings is, I've been

1666
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,760
bringing him up almost every
opportunity I can, but he, I

1667
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:32,600
don't know if you've ever
listened to him, he's a

1668
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,440
bluegrass jam grass musician
that goes into country, goes

1669
01:16:36,440 --> 01:16:41,160
into Western music and goes and
is such an incredible musician.

1670
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:43,840
But he's got a whole following
and he's got a whole community

1671
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,360
in a whole world and he
represents middle America.

1672
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:51,360
He represents John Deere Tractor
represents wearing a flannel

1673
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:55,680
shirt and taking some mushrooms
and going on stage and having a

1674
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:57,600
great time with everyone for a
couple hours.

1675
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:02,720
And so so I think that all I
think that the way that all

1676
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,560
these quote, UN quote counter
culture movements go is that

1677
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,720
they almost you have to always
kind of seek them out.

1678
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,160
And then once everyone like
knows about it, that's when you

1679
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:11,640
got to like run and run away,
you know?

1680
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:13,520
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with
that.

1681
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,520
I'm really a Jimmy Buffett
biography now and it's not a

1682
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,040
good biography.
But one thing that he that

1683
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,120
they're talking about was, you
know, the second that Jimmy

1684
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:23,320
Buffett wrote Margaritaville,
you had to leave.

1685
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,840
You had to leave, what do you
call it?

1686
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,080
Where is from key?
You had to leave the keys like,

1687
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:30,920
you know, like it became
uninhabitable because everyone

1688
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,000
went to check it out.
San Francisco, same thing. 1 San

1689
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,880
Francisco had the Summer of
Love.

1690
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,800
Everyone started going there and
then a combination of the

1691
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,000
massive importation of people
and the introduction of speed

1692
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,840
and heroin into the scene as
opposed to psychedelics caused

1693
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,040
an enormous implosion that that
that that like the city hasn't

1694
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,000
really recovered from in that
kind of capacity yet.

1695
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,640
Like you don't see that kind of
great freedom, that great free.

1696
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,440
You see a lot of free spirit for
sure, but you don't see the

1697
01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:00,120
Summer of Love, the Grateful
Dead with Jefferson Airplane and

1698
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,040
Quicksilver Messenger Service
and Country Joe all playing

1699
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,880
together.
You do get that with the jam

1700
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,960
scene Now, you know, fish or
tray with fish will hang out

1701
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:12,800
with Billy strings who's playing
it was playing with panic and

1702
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,840
everyone's going to one another
shows and you know, and and I

1703
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:20,280
think that you know, the the so
at the end of the day, it's not

1704
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,560
that it's not that these don't
exist.

1705
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,560
It's that these little
communities are just where

1706
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,440
people aren't used to looking.
And then it becomes big enough

1707
01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:30,880
and then everyone flocks there
and then you got to go somewhere

1708
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:32,160
else.
And so I think it's just a

1709
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,040
circle.
Yeah, it's, you brought up so

1710
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,000
many interesting things to me.
I want to talk about fish a

1711
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:38,560
little bit.
And the other thing I just want

1712
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,880
to briefly mention is I realized
just now that I'm part of a

1713
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:43,760
writing community here in
Phoenix.

1714
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,760
And a friend of mine started it
and I was early on in it.

1715
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,920
And I recently realized, like,
I'm in it.

1716
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,800
I'm in the thing people try to
say they were in.

1717
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,480
It does not matter if any of us
succeed.

1718
01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:59,400
What matters is, like, the
camaraderie we've built is

1719
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:03,480
identical to the Paris community
to the, you know, so like, it's

1720
01:19:03,480 --> 01:19:06,320
weird to like, finally see and
respect that.

1721
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,680
Whereas like earlier, like I
moved to Portland, OR before it

1722
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:11,960
was super popular to move to
Portland, OR.

1723
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:15,240
But before you give me too much
credit, I was still popular to

1724
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:16,760
move to Portland, OR.
Do you see the point I'm trying

1725
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:17,920
to make?
There's always the first wave,

1726
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,160
the second wave and the third.
I am like the most.

1727
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:21,520
I was about to flick you off by
accident.

1728
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,080
I'm the.
Most I'm a second wave, the king

1729
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,240
of second waves.
Like I just everywhere I go I'm

1730
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,480
always in the second wave.
The same with investing, like

1731
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:32,880
all my luck in stocks or
anything I've ever had is always

1732
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,440
picking up on when the first
wave just ended and the second

1733
01:19:36,440 --> 01:19:39,880
wave hasn't started and then by
the time the 3rd wave starts,

1734
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:41,840
that's when it's not fun, that's
when it's not cool.

1735
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,480
So I think what you just said
was great advice.

1736
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:46,080
And then the other thing you
reminded me of is when I was

1737
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,640
talking about my favorite bands.
I didn't get into my 20s, but my

1738
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,320
all time favorite band is a
Steve Malcolmus and Pavement.

1739
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:55,040
Pavement was his first band and
what I noticed that I love about

1740
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:58,000
him is the same thing I like
about fish because I don't love

1741
01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:59,880
fish, but I definitely like them
which I.

1742
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:02,560
Respect them.
I need silliness.

1743
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,440
I am like a silly person.
I'm a silly dad.

1744
01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:07,760
I'm a silly husband.
I'm a silly teacher.

1745
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:13,080
I like silly comedies.
Some it's so weird to know that

1746
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:15,600
that's a minority.
Silly is actually never going to

1747
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,600
be even like 40% of the comedy
window.

1748
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,400
And so it's like really funny to
me because all my favorite

1749
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,360
musicians, all my favorite
actors, all my favorite

1750
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,840
directors, everything I love,
they're always like got that to

1751
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:28,480
them.
And and even like my

1752
01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:30,640
girlfriends, like I can't date
someone unless they're like a

1753
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:31,920
little silly, really.
Like they have to.

1754
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,200
And so it's, it's interesting
because I heard someone the

1755
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,600
other day saying like, I just
hate silliness and it's so

1756
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:37,880
annoying and I can't get into
it.

1757
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,400
And I was like, that explains my
whole life.

1758
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:44,200
Like I I always thought what I
liked would be popular, but I

1759
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:46,200
don't like popular things.
And it's not because I'm a

1760
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:49,560
hipster or a contrarian.
I just actually am like in this,

1761
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,800
just other things.
So fish, yeah, Fish to me,

1762
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,240
though, is just like the one of
the most fun concerts I ever

1763
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:58,080
went to was a fish concert.
It was like even it was like

1764
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,200
indoors in like a gymnasium,
like it wasn't even like a good

1765
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,640
setting to see a band and like
they made it fun and their fans

1766
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,920
were fun and you know, the
Grateful Dead, like the the one

1767
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,280
thing that they never changed.
I mean, they were like awesome.

1768
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,320
You know, you mentioned pig pen,
but like obviously the roster

1769
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,160
changed, you know, with with
deaths, but.

1770
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:16,960
That keyboard position?
Dangerous.

1771
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,920
Yeah, Frank Zappa, he's another
great example of like, probably

1772
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:22,800
one of the best guitarist ever,
literally.

1773
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,480
And just too silly, just didn't
give a crap.

1774
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:28,800
Like.
And even The Who, The Who is one

1775
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:30,640
of my favorite rock bands ever.
You know, they have The Who

1776
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:32,240
sells out.
Like they had like a sense of

1777
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:33,680
comedy.
I'm a girl.

1778
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:34,680
I'm a I'm a boy.
I'm a boy.

1779
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:36,520
And my mom won't admit it.
Like, like all.

1780
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,680
Yeah.
So I don't know.

1781
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,880
When you brought a fish, my mind
just like completely derailed to

1782
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,000
like something that I feel is
like so interesting about our

1783
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:49,560
culture and our society as I
think Americans really, like,

1784
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,160
put up a stiff arm of resistance
to silliness.

1785
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:54,840
Like we don't like, we like
dismiss children and we say

1786
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,600
like, grow up.
And I think it comes from the

1787
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:58,680
British heritage, to be honest.
I think that's like the stiff

1788
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:00,680
upper lip.
And like, you know, like Ricky

1789
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,400
Gervais talks a lot about this,
'cause I like to read comedians

1790
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,040
writing seriously about comedy.
I know it's like the dorkiest

1791
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,920
not funny thing ever, but.
Yeah, so you're learning the

1792
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:11,600
art.
Yeah, I'm learning the art and

1793
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:13,840
like I I've never been a Sam.
I did like open mic a couple

1794
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,280
times just to see what it was
like, but not because I wanted.

1795
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:19,120
To do a.
Career easier than I would have

1796
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,640
thought because I'm good at
public speaking.

1797
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:24,600
I don't understand and I will
never understand the leap from

1798
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,200
you're good at open mic till you
suddenly start getting to do

1799
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:28,680
real gigs.
It makes no sense to me.

1800
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:30,800
No matter how many of these
people I read and listen to,

1801
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:33,080
none of them have the same thing
in common.

1802
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,440
So there's not like this.
Like I still don't understand

1803
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,880
how you go from like because,
because here's my problem.

1804
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,880
When I showed up for open mic,
it's a first come first serve to

1805
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:44,360
sign up on a list at most of
them.

1806
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,240
So you have to show up at 5:00
PM to sign a list.

1807
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,480
That means you'll probably get
on at 10:30 to 11:00.

1808
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,480
Most people start leaving at 7
like, you know, like as it

1809
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:58,320
starts at six and they're just
like I can't take more than an

1810
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:00,600
hour of open.
I mean because most open mikers

1811
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:05,120
are horrible, like not just bad.
They're like people who know

1812
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,080
this is the only like they're
people who normally yell on

1813
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,920
subways, but they've found like
this loophole because they just

1814
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,760
because they can write their
name basically like they can

1815
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,680
show up and like not be so
spastic that they're able to

1816
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:18,240
sign a name and then wait to be
called.

1817
01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:20,400
But, and there's like a 3 minute
limit.

1818
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:22,720
So just as you're getting into
something, you have to leave.

1819
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:25,880
But the point I'm trying to make
is that it was, and again, I

1820
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:27,960
did, I went to support a friend
who wanted to be a comedian.

1821
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:30,440
So I had no, I've never have had
a bone in me that wants to do

1822
01:23:30,440 --> 01:23:32,040
it.
I did public speaking as a kid

1823
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,360
and I'm funny enough.
And as a teacher, that was like

1824
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,120
the pinnacle for me.
You know how it is like when

1825
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,320
you're, when you're hitting it
off in a classroom, you feel

1826
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,280
like, you know, Dave Letterman,
like whoever it is that you

1827
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,400
think of.
But, but, but I still like

1828
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,480
couldn't figure out like,
because these people like, so

1829
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:49,920
you show up at 5:00, you sign a
list.

1830
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,760
If you're lucky, you get on at
like the 10 to 1030 range.

1831
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,040
So you have to have a job that
you're off by 5.

1832
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,040
You have to be able to stay up
super late.

1833
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:58,960
No one is watching you.
And then this is the.

1834
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,040
Reason the responsibility to
even be around for.

1835
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:05,280
Either and the thing I hated the
reason I would never ever, ever

1836
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:09,480
be a comedian is the meanest
people were the other comedians

1837
01:24:09,480 --> 01:24:11,240
like they would purposely not
laugh.

1838
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:13,920
They would like try to like
derail you.

1839
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:17,720
And this is I experienced as a
musician too, like I don't this

1840
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,920
OK, you mentioned Joe Rogan.
I'm not a huge Joe Rogan fan

1841
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:23,880
because I just kind of like
phased out of his show.

1842
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,400
But I was a huge fan of his show
for like many years and he

1843
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,840
really informed me on this one
thing that he still does, which

1844
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,320
is there's no finite resource to
success.

1845
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,280
Like the biggest trapping in
America as we think there's only

1846
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,080
enough spots for something.
And it creates this competitive

1847
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,560
BS in all the arts that is total
BS.

1848
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,280
There's room for everyone.
And you should always be

1849
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:49,120
encouraging people alongside you
to get better because if they

1850
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,160
get much better than you, maybe
they'll have you on their

1851
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:53,200
podcast that's doing better.
Like, I don't know, like you

1852
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,080
could become the most famous
podcast person ever.

1853
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:58,280
And then suddenly your number is
a special number in my phone

1854
01:24:58,280 --> 01:24:59,800
that I'm like bragging about
having.

1855
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,440
But you know, it's, it's all
about like when you people and I

1856
01:25:02,440 --> 01:25:05,440
have met famous people before.
I've had like, I, I worked in a

1857
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:08,480
restaurant that was annexed to a
studio where a lot of famous

1858
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:10,960
musicians recorded.
And so I would meet and, and it

1859
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:12,800
was always funny when I would
get their number or their e-mail

1860
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:14,960
address because I would just,
I've never approached any of

1861
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:17,520
them, but I would just like put
them in a special spot and I

1862
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,600
would feel special.
I'd be like, well, if I ever

1863
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:21,840
need to get into a Spoon
concert, Britt Daniels knows who

1864
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,120
I am.
Like, you know, that like, it

1865
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:27,160
was just like interesting that.
So I see how like celebrity

1866
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:30,520
worshipping works, but like I
said, I'm not, I, I didn't

1867
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,920
disavow myself from Joe Rogan
because of politics or anything

1868
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,320
like that.
It's not like, and it's just

1869
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,120
actually he just kind of got old
and I feel like.

1870
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,000
He yeah.
You can listen you, you don't

1871
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,520
listen to a certain amount of
him and especially 3 hours an

1872
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,080
episode, it's only a certain.
Amount, yeah.

1873
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,000
For sure, sure.
But he's such a caring, giving,

1874
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,960
loving man.
It's like really shaking, dude.

1875
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:51,880
And you know what?
It's so funny because we could

1876
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:55,160
do a lot, you know?
And it's so funny how our

1877
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,640
perspectives in this country,
you know, work Joe Rogan could

1878
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,240
be like Public Enemy number one,
you know, but people that are

1879
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:06,240
responsible for like sending
troops to war over like over

1880
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:07,960
nothing and like literally lying
about it.

1881
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,480
Like those are the most
respected people in suits.

1882
01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:14,920
And like Joe Rogan has done more
to help literally like tenfold,

1883
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,720
hundredfold more human beings on
this planet than you.

1884
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,320
And you know what?
If your issue is the way that he

1885
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,960
that he approaches COVID or the
way that he approaches politics,

1886
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:26,000
which he's so freaking even
about, it's insane.

1887
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:28,760
So even about it like.
He, it's so, yeah.

1888
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:31,280
So you know what, I think we
could do a lot worse than having

1889
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,160
him be a gay.
I, I think that he's a great

1890
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:34,800
gatekeeper.
He is a gatekeeper, but I think

1891
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:38,520
he's a great gatekeeper.
And I, I think that I also think

1892
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,440
that chaos is, is not always
great.

1893
01:26:41,480 --> 01:26:45,160
Like, you know, it's not always
great to not have a gatekeeper.

1894
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,360
And you know what, there should
be a standard, but it should be

1895
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:49,480
a universal standard that again,
everyone could look at

1896
01:26:49,480 --> 01:26:53,040
themselves in about what you
were saying before with that

1897
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:54,720
little community with the
writers and everything like

1898
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:58,480
that.
You know, I think that that is

1899
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,640
one of the keys to happiness and
success in general.

1900
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,440
I, you know, I, it's funny
because I have AI live and I

1901
01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:09,040
think it's healthy, at least
healthier for me.

1902
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:13,000
I have a foot in the 60s and 70s
and then, but I don't think I

1903
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:15,240
ever would have survived living
in that time in that world.

1904
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,400
And then I prefer to read about
how romantic everything is and

1905
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,360
listen to, you know, interviews
and actually live it myself

1906
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:25,640
because I go to an open mic
around here and like, it's this

1907
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:28,520
little shop, it's called My
Mama's in Daniel in Dania Beach,

1908
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:30,800
My momma's coffee and vinyl
shop.

1909
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:32,640
Awesome.
And every Tuesday night they

1910
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,600
have an open mic.
And I've been going for a couple

1911
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:39,160
of years now every now and then.
And it's just the like, it's a

1912
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,200
scene out of the 60s.
You got, you know, a dude that,

1913
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,080
that, that bicycled over from
the beach and all he has is like

1914
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,640
his basket with his guitar.
And then you have, you know,

1915
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:50,400
some guy that I saw in a parking
lot by Walmart and he doesn't

1916
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:51,960
even perform.
He just hangs out for the scene,

1917
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:53,680
you know, and likes all the
cover songs that was playing.

1918
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,520
And then you have some
incredibly talented 3 piece

1919
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,000
bands.
You're like, how come you guys

1920
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,360
aren't like performing like this
is awesome.

1921
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,680
And then you have the individual
and like, and, and you have this

1922
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,600
whole setting and, and, and, and
it's a, it's a store, It's a,

1923
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,960
it's a privately owned business
with, you know, a middle-aged

1924
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:12,440
woman that that runs the show.
And it's, and it's a scene and

1925
01:28:12,440 --> 01:28:14,800
it's a culture and it's
community and it's a family and

1926
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,680
people love it there and people
go every week.

1927
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,600
And, and that's what, and that's
really what New York was.

1928
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:23,800
That's what San Francisco was.
And like, it was grimy and it

1929
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:25,840
was dirty and it was mostly
people hanging out And you

1930
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,800
occasionally had sparks of just,
you know, pearls and, and

1931
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,120
incredible inspiration, But a
lot of it was just having good

1932
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,920
times together, you know, and
we, and we like, we left off

1933
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,000
with your podcast.
I think that the best thing you

1934
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:38,960
could do is having more embodied
experiences.

1935
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:45,600
And we're seeing a rise, I
think, which is really cool in

1936
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,720
martial arts, which I, you know,
in general, I think is, is an

1937
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:52,920
awesome thing for people to like
participate in also because it's

1938
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,560
one of those environments and
philosophies really deeply

1939
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,880
grounded in the East.
And so a lot of the values that

1940
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:03,240
we are lacking as as
individuals, you know, so, you

1941
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,400
know, you come for, you know,
you might start coming to

1942
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:07,480
martial arts because of the
sport, because of it's just like

1943
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,120
these gladiators.
But then when you participate

1944
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:13,800
and you're like, this is, this
is not animal like this is not

1945
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:15,200
just two animals ripping each
other's head off.

1946
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:17,640
This is this is chess, this is
human chess.

1947
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:19,480
This is incredible.
And this is also community

1948
01:29:19,480 --> 01:29:21,920
rooted in teaching and learning
and participation.

1949
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:23,880
And you say, where else could
you get that from?

1950
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:28,120
So I think we, I think we need
that.

1951
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:30,440
I think that music is a really,
really great way of doing that.

1952
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:35,400
And I think that and I and, you
know, we got to look at which

1953
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:40,160
communities are getting crushed
for the best kind of creativity

1954
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:41,600
and inspiration.
It's always been the case

1955
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:43,920
historically, and it's always
been the case as far as culture.

1956
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,080
You know, listen, when were the
Blues better than the 60s and

1957
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:48,560
70s?
When it was hardest for, you

1958
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:50,560
know, 50s, sixties, 70s, when it
was hardest for the black

1959
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,000
community?
You know, when was, when was the

1960
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:57,320
jam music any better?
The, the, you know, the San

1961
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,440
Francisco scene when it was
McCarthyism and it was, you

1962
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:04,160
know, this pushback, you know,
on like anything that was not

1963
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,920
considered traditional and
conservative and all those

1964
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,640
people felt like they had
nothing to do but be the most

1965
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,600
themselves.
And I think that right now

1966
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:14,040
there's a lot of people that are
hurting that could find a lot of

1967
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:17,400
very excellent and and useful
creative community outlets,

1968
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,880
both, as you know, in music and
just in general sharing and arts

1969
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,960
and stuff like that.
Yeah, And I'll tie this into my

1970
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:28,400
weird, awkward attempt to stand
up for Bill Maher and the 9/11

1971
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:30,720
bombers.
I'm joking.

1972
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,240
But but what they were seeking
was community.

1973
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,480
And what everyone's seeking is
community and all these cases.

1974
01:30:35,480 --> 01:30:38,320
And so like from a suicide
bomber to like a musician to

1975
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,000
like anyone.
What I what, what I think is the

1976
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,080
great tragedy of this last like
10 years is that I don't think

1977
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:47,080
people realize that like one of
the reasons we have a problem

1978
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:49,400
with like in cells and like red
pill and all these things and

1979
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,400
like male anger, but then also
like female anger and, and trans

1980
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:57,280
anger, like both trans anger.
Yeah, it's a lot of anger.

1981
01:30:57,280 --> 01:31:00,080
And it's because if people are
not understanding that like just

1982
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,720
respect other people's rights to
be in their own communities and

1983
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,600
then don't obsess with your
community getting bigger and

1984
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:08,120
don't obsess with like growth
rates and things like that.

1985
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:12,320
I just read a book from an ex
Jehovah's Witness and it was it

1986
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:13,960
was really good.
It wasn't like life changing

1987
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:16,080
only because like I'm way past
the age where I would have

1988
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:17,440
joined a religion like job
business.

1989
01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:21,080
But I kept reflecting in the
book on like Judaism and trying

1990
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:23,720
to compare like why is this
called a cult?

1991
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:25,760
Why is that not called a cult?
What is the difference?

1992
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,800
You know, because.
What do you think?

1993
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,520
What I think is that anyone who
takes Judaism too far is in a

1994
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,880
cult, and then what I think is
anyone who doesn't is not.

1995
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,480
And I would say Jehovah's
Witness, the only real

1996
01:31:37,480 --> 01:31:41,320
difference I see between the the
two as far as like the

1997
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:43,920
likelihood of it becoming a cult
is higher.

1998
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:49,760
Like like so Judaism does have
one of the weirdest things about

1999
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:51,400
Jews.
I always tell this to like non

2000
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:55,000
Jews is we're not all about
proselytizing and welcoming you

2001
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:56,680
into our religion.
It's very interesting.

2002
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,480
We're like, one of the very few
reasons is like, well, you got

2003
01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:00,640
to take a lot of tests and you
got to study like you want to

2004
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,120
like we're not just like, come
here, I'll dunk your head

2005
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:04,680
underwater.
Now you're one of us.

2006
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:09,880
Like, we're very, very.
Like, it's not once you go

2007
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,200
through those hoops, you're,
you're actually, I mean, like my

2008
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,080
mom converted right before I was
born, like her.

2009
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:17,240
My dad's mother was like, you
know, and my mom's like, I don't

2010
01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:18,800
care.
I didn't like being Methodist.

2011
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:19,320
So.
Yeah, sure.

2012
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,960
And then she started reading.
My mom is more Jewish than my

2013
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:24,880
dad, like, by far.
Like, she converted and she

2014
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,640
knows more about the laws.
She knows much like my dad's

2015
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:29,640
just like, yeah, I like,
memorized the Torah a little bit

2016
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:32,000
when I was 13 and like, you
know, I got a bunch of gifts in

2017
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:35,040
them, you know, and.
And so it's interesting because

2018
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:38,600
I do the reason I worry about
cults and the reason I

2019
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:40,640
specifically to tie it into
Judaism, because I'm talking to

2020
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,800
you and we're both Jewish, is it
really worries me how much

2021
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,120
people have convinced people in
this country that if you're

2022
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:49,000
Jewish, you must ally yourself
with Israel or you must ally

2023
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,040
yourself against Israel.
Like this, this binary and also

2024
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:55,440
this weird crossing the line
between national identity and

2025
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:58,960
religious identity.
And so I, I, I really hate how

2026
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,400
the world set up Israel,
Palestine for all of us.

2027
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:04,840
Like, it made it confusing and
hard for everyone.

2028
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:09,480
And I really wish we could just
like understand secularism and

2029
01:33:09,480 --> 01:33:12,120
understand like what a religion
is and understand what a

2030
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:16,880
government is.
And, and because I worry for the

2031
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,960
safety for the first time ever
in my life of my friends and

2032
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:22,200
especially my children for being
Jewish in this culture right

2033
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:27,160
now, because there's so much
hatred against Israel and it's

2034
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,000
becoming anti-Semitism.
And it blows my mind because

2035
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:33,040
like, I am an American, I pay my
taxes to the American

2036
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:35,360
government.
I do not owe anything to

2037
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,600
Netanyahu or whoever is going to
be running their parliament

2038
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,600
soon.
And, and I, and it's not that I

2039
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:43,360
don't like them or do like them,
it's that they're just like

2040
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:47,760
Spain or Greece or Turkey or
China to me or Thailand, like if

2041
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:52,280
they're another country.
And so it worries me that we're

2042
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:55,280
geopolitically that we are so
strongly allied with certain

2043
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,400
nations over others.
But the weird thing about cults

2044
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:02,840
is to me, I really get worried
when I meet someone who's Jewish

2045
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:05,160
and they're like, well, Israel
has to exist because of the

2046
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:07,520
Holocaust.
And I'm just like, that's so

2047
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:10,000
like misguided and not
appropriate and not helpful for

2048
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:11,880
the conversation.
And it's not going to help you

2049
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:13,800
or me.
And like, and so I feel like

2050
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,800
there's a big schism for me
with, with my identity, with

2051
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,480
being a Jew because of, because
of what I'm talking about, which

2052
01:34:21,480 --> 01:34:25,840
is that I worry if I tell
someone I'm Jewish right now.

2053
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:29,360
I think, and I, and I really do
think this, that they

2054
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,720
immediately assume that I like
Ben Netanyahu.

2055
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:35,160
I stand up for all of these.
Like, I don't even know what

2056
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:38,840
most of Israel's policies are.
The October I don't even know

2057
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:42,600
the date was our 6th 7th.
That was like a horrible

2058
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:44,480
tragedy.
Get in line.

2059
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:48,240
There are so many horrible
tragedies like Rwanda, like when

2060
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:51,840
in the 90s was way bigger of a
tragedy like like even just and

2061
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:53,760
again, this now sounds like I'm
being anti-Semitic.

2062
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,120
I'm not.
I'm just bringing up we Jews

2063
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:00,360
need to stop saying the
Holocaust was the Holocaust.

2064
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:03,440
We need to stop talking about
like Israel the way we do, like,

2065
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,920
like all of us as part of we
need to separate culture,

2066
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:10,040
religion, ethnicity.
And then understand that when

2067
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,040
you meet someone who says
they're Jewish, they may be all

2068
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:13,560
three.
They may be one, they may be

2069
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,440
two.
And so, so when, when you said

2070
01:35:16,440 --> 01:35:19,280
talk about it like these are the
uninformed yet formed thoughts

2071
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:22,800
in my head after 44 years of
like hiding and being open about

2072
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:25,440
being a Jew, depending on where
I lived because of how safe or

2073
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:27,960
not safe I felt.
And when I, and again, I preface

2074
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:29,480
this with it's really about my
children.

2075
01:35:29,480 --> 01:35:33,640
It's about like, how much am I
like fueling into these two

2076
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:38,800
little kids this identity with
like we were the victims of

2077
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:40,360
World War Two more than anyone
else.

2078
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,800
Like that's not even really
actually true.

2079
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,360
And it's it's like hard for me
to hear that over and over again

2080
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,320
because I have people who were
in Germany.

2081
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,600
So it's not like I don't have
like family ties to all that.

2082
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:55,360
But like Hitler was not only
collecting Jews and he was not

2083
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:57,680
only attacking Jews.
And one of the reasons I like

2084
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:00,920
Kurt Cobain is that's what his
attitude was about was like, all

2085
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:03,000
of us are under attack.
Like, it's more, you know, And

2086
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:08,600
so I just feel, I feel like
maybe it's time for the whole

2087
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,000
world to like, start calling
religions a community and to

2088
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:16,800
start like just pulling back a
little bit of the like, OK, Like

2089
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:20,480
most Jewish people I know don't
actually think Yahweh spoke to

2090
01:36:20,480 --> 01:36:23,880
like, Abraham specifically and
that the Torah was written as is

2091
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:27,680
and that we have experts who
translated Aramaic into like,

2092
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,320
English, you know what I mean?
Like, like most people are

2093
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:32,880
willing to more say like, well,
these are traditions and these

2094
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:39,280
like matter, but not that, not
that they're actually inherently

2095
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:41,840
more truthful or less truthful
than like other doctrines.

2096
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:44,880
And so I, I just think the world
would be safer if, if, but

2097
01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:47,200
again, like I only am speaking
about Jews right now because I'm

2098
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:50,720
Jewish and I feel comfortable
that I could easily much at the

2099
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:54,240
danger to my children be talking
about other religions, you know,

2100
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:56,680
like, but I know better.
I know better than to talk about

2101
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,080
Islam, Christianity or other
religions because I am not of

2102
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:01,880
them and I, I would be speaking
I'll of them and I don't want

2103
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:05,000
them speaking I'll about us.
But I feel like Jew to Jew,

2104
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:07,560
there's a lot of PR that needs
to be done right now between all

2105
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:09,640
of us.
Because I meet people who assume

2106
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:11,760
things and speak about me in
front of me.

2107
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:14,200
And I'm like, hey, I really
would wish that you wouldn't be

2108
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:16,960
like saying that we all agree on
this, you know, I don't.

2109
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,200
How do you feel about all that?
It must be way more complicated

2110
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:22,600
to be you.
It's really complicated I.

2111
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:24,880
Mean I can't even imagine
between your job, your parents

2112
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:26,720
and your family, I imagine just
those 3.

2113
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:32,840
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts.
I do listen.

2114
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:39,040
I have emotional and religious
ties to the land of Israel.

2115
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:47,720
I do think, I think that it is a
true and good argument to just

2116
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:50,320
push back a little into it.
Maybe we can go back and.

2117
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,080
I'm a rare.
Curious, I'm not.

2118
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,680
I think that what was the, I
think the emphasis that everyone

2119
01:37:56,680 --> 01:38:02,720
made was that, especially after
World War 2, was that after like

2120
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:05,080
throw a dart at a map and the
Jews have been kicked out of

2121
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:08,240
there, right?
And seriously, like anyone on

2122
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:10,520
the map, you'll find, you know,
and you can go to a city and

2123
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:12,840
you'll find a, you know, a
synagogue or a shore that was

2124
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,520
burned down, Jewish cemeteries
from pogroms or anything like

2125
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:20,000
that.
I think that that like Judaism

2126
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:25,760
has, is like, is it a race?
Is it a religion?

2127
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:28,560
Is it, you know, you know, like
what, what is it?

2128
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:32,360
But what is important though, I
think is that there should be a,

2129
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:36,960
a place for Jews to ostensibly
go, because I do think that.

2130
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,800
And again, this goes with our
short memory and this goes with

2131
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:43,440
a very short memory.
Count how many, you know, how

2132
01:38:43,440 --> 01:38:46,360
many persecutions or times there
were that we got that we got

2133
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:51,040
kicked out of or mass murdered
in, you know, in the last 200

2134
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:53,120
years.
And then say, how long have we

2135
01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:54,880
been in Amsterdam?
How long have you been in

2136
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,880
Germany or Poland?
How long have we been in Yemen?

2137
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,320
How long my grandparents are
Yemenite, you know, like how

2138
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,000
many, how many, how many, how
many generations have we been

2139
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,960
there and how many persecutions
have we have we experienced

2140
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:08,320
there?
That until you say there needs

2141
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:11,320
to be 1 designated place that if
anything does happen and

2142
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:13,040
everyone says, yeah, nothing's
going to happen, nothing's going

2143
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,240
to happen.
Maybe it won't, you know, but

2144
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,120
there should be, I think a
designated place.

2145
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:20,640
Does that mean again that
everyone's our enemy that says,

2146
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:22,320
you know, that we don't like
what you do?

2147
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:26,440
No, you know, I mean we're, but
I mean I, I freaking love

2148
01:39:26,440 --> 01:39:28,560
America.
You know, I mean, I, I love

2149
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:31,400
America and I criticize it.
I criticize it because I love

2150
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:32,920
the philosophy what America
stands for.

2151
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:35,800
And no one tells me I'm anti
American.

2152
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:39,360
No one tells me I'm a, you know,
I'm a racist against, you know,

2153
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:43,080
against Americans.
I, I say I don't like the way

2154
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:46,080
that we're, you know, that,
that, that, that we, you know,

2155
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:48,920
force other countries to become
financially indebted to us and

2156
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,240
then push them to give us
whatever we want.

2157
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:53,520
I think that's wrong of us.
I don't think that as a free

2158
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:55,960
world that preaches freedom,
that that's a very good, that's

2159
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:57,520
a very good way to practice what
you preach.

2160
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,280
You know, that doesn't make me a
bad dude.

2161
01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:02,160
In fact, that makes me someone
that loves the philosophy.

2162
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:06,480
So I'm with you on I'm with you
on that conversation of Hey,

2163
01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:09,360
man, you're and and by the way,
and you know.

2164
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:14,000
This it's woke tactics.
It is, it was woke tactics that

2165
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,320
did not work out well for the
world community when, when

2166
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:18,800
everyone said anything or
sneezed in the direction of

2167
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:22,760
anyone that that could be
perceived as not a white

2168
01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:26,080
straight individual, that
they're a racist or a bigot in

2169
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:27,720
any kind of way.
And then the, and then it starts

2170
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,600
losing meaning and people lose
interest and, and, and, and, and

2171
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,680
the cry of outrage and the, and
you know, the boy that cried

2172
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,080
wolf only works a certain amount
of times.

2173
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:39,520
And I think that you got to, you
got to cherish those times

2174
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:41,400
because there are times that are
really real.

2175
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:47,480
The Holocaust, you know, World
War 2 was horrible for all

2176
01:40:47,480 --> 01:40:50,880
humanity.
You know, I, we, we, I have an

2177
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:53,720
emphasis on the, on the Jews
that experienced it because I'm

2178
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:54,960
Jewish and my family went
through it.

2179
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:56,680
And so that's my relationship to
it.

2180
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:00,160
I'm denying the gays, the
gypsies, the Russians, the

2181
01:41:00,160 --> 01:41:02,360
French.
I'm not, you know, anyone else

2182
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:04,880
that went through, you know, any
kind of other.

2183
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:07,520
I'm not saying that they weren't
participating in it either.

2184
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:10,280
But as far as my like what you
said, as far as our heritage

2185
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:12,440
goes, and as far as you know,
that's, that's the that's the

2186
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:13,640
scope we're going to look at it
through.

2187
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,400
To deny that anyone else had an
issue in World War 2 is also

2188
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:19,480
crazy.
You know, to say that the

2189
01:41:19,480 --> 01:41:22,640
Holocaust, that the World War 2
was just about Jews is silly.

2190
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:25,680
You know, it was about every, it
was, it was about a World War.

2191
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,440
It was about, you know, and I'm
teaching my students now wars a

2192
01:41:28,440 --> 01:41:31,600
racket, you know, Smedley Butler
and you know, and he's and he

2193
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,480
got, you know, mysteriously
killed right before America,

2194
01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:35,960
America got involved in World
War 2.

2195
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:39,240
And after he wrote this pamphlet
and he and he was writing about

2196
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:42,920
all the relationships that we're
on the verge of fraying leading

2197
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:45,920
up to World War 2.
And it was everyone and I and I

2198
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,120
showed my students, you pulled
up a map and he and he listed

2199
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:50,160
all the places and all the
politics that was going on.

2200
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:53,600
And like, that's just Russia and
Europe, like that's, that's

2201
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:55,080
everyone.
And, you know, and then

2202
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:58,000
obviously Asia has its own, you
know, history of World War 22.

2203
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:04,360
But I so I think that.
Can I ask you a question?

2204
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,680
Sure, because the only thing I'm
I hear nothing you said that I

2205
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:09,600
disagree with.
But what I want to know more

2206
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:17,920
about is no matter what we are,
where we are and where we are is

2207
01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:21,120
there are people who claim I
have no homes and I'm treated

2208
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,680
like nobody.
These would be mainly

2209
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:26,800
Palestinians.
And then there's people who are

2210
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:32,520
Israeli, like, not like you, but
meaning Jewish and Israeli, who

2211
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:34,600
say we need a place to feel
safe.

2212
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:39,560
If the place you picked doesn't
feel safe because of Jordan and

2213
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,080
Egypt and these other countries
around it, then what I'm really

2214
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,880
pushing for, and I know this is.
Impossible religious

2215
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:47,880
conversation and that and that
goes to religious.

2216
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:51,440
So, so that's my religious,
that's my religious investment

2217
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,240
in the land and in the
particular place.

2218
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:57,680
And I and I have, and I mean,
listen, I've been there, you

2219
01:42:57,680 --> 01:42:59,720
know, over a dozen times in my
life and awesome.

2220
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:02,640
I, I genuinely, genuinely love
being there.

2221
01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:09,280
And by the way, I mean, you
know, most Israelis aren't on

2222
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:11,360
the same page as the way that we
treat the Palestinians, you

2223
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,480
know, and, and, and the way, and
by the way, in most of, in most

2224
01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:17,800
of our, most of our wars are,
are manufactured.

2225
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:21,520
We know this dude.
War, war is, is propaganda and

2226
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:26,920
is war is manufactured in
enormous, enormous part and in

2227
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:28,320
our relationships and our
perceptions.

2228
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:30,760
But like, it's funny, you know,
according to the Jewish, you

2229
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:32,760
know, philosophy, you know,
there's a couple of different

2230
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,080
what you call exiles and that
you know, that happened.

2231
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:37,360
And there's exile of Greece and
the exile of Rome and there's

2232
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:42,000
exile of of Babylon and and
Rome, which is technically the

2233
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:44,240
third one and the one that we're
quote UN quote still in.

2234
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:47,960
And what you know, in that
capacity is supposed to be the

2235
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:49,360
longest one and the most
difficult one.

2236
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:53,480
It's not Rome isn't Muslim, you
know, like all like the Jews

2237
01:43:53,480 --> 01:43:58,960
beef is not is not with Muslims.
It it need not be and it and and

2238
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:02,240
I'm and I'm A and I'm a strong
believer the Jews in the Hevron

2239
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:04,800
world.
You know that today is one of

2240
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:10,200
the most volatile, you know,
places that you could possibly

2241
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,560
spend time for hundreds of
years.

2242
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:16,000
Jews and Palestinians that lived
there in poverty got along

2243
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:19,120
beautifully, you know, and, and,
and sure, there were, you know,

2244
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:22,200
instances where they did in the
early 1920s and 1930s.

2245
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:24,520
And that was also, again,
largely manufactured.

2246
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:27,880
And, you know, and, and again,
you know, people are holding

2247
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:30,640
other people's feet to the fire,
their own people's feet to the

2248
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:33,600
fire, you know, respectively to,
to, to 'cause that push.

2249
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:39,680
And, and I think that, you know,
like you said, get in line and,

2250
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,880
you know, everyone has, everyone
has pain, everyone has

2251
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:46,440
challenges, everyone has.
There's the question really is,

2252
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:47,880
are we going to be looking to
the past?

2253
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:49,640
We're going to look into the
present, look into the future,

2254
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:51,760
you know, and, and are we going
to look to get along?

2255
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,840
Are we going to look to say, you
know what, everyone should get a

2256
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:57,560
fair shake.
Unfortunately, you can't undo

2257
01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:59,280
the last 100 years.
I don't know, you know, I mean,

2258
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:02,200
if you went back to when, when
the when the early Zionists were

2259
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,720
were founding the state of
Israel, I'm sure that I probably

2260
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:07,720
wouldn't have loved a lot of
what they were doing, you know,

2261
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:09,600
and I'm sure that, you know,
they didn't love what each other

2262
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:10,600
were doing.
You know, there was a lot of

2263
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:12,680
conflict, but they also felt an
enormous pressure.

2264
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:16,560
There was an enormous rush to to
come up with a state because

2265
01:45:16,680 --> 01:45:18,960
World War Two had just happened
because the pogroms had just

2266
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:21,200
come to a climax.
And, you know, what was going,

2267
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:25,000
what was ultimately, you know,
and as far as percentage wise of

2268
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,760
people that were killed, meaning
I don't know how many millions

2269
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,480
of Jews were in the world, but
you know, it was not in the

2270
01:45:30,480 --> 01:45:32,520
hundreds of millions.
You know, like 6,000,000 was a

2271
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:35,360
pretty significant number
relative to the population in

2272
01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:37,760
the world.
So just like people say, you

2273
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:40,480
know, like, oh, only a couple
100,000 Palestinians, like dude,

2274
01:45:40,480 --> 01:45:42,160
relative to what?
How many people are living

2275
01:45:42,160 --> 01:45:43,320
there, you know.
And so.

2276
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,000
So like, yeah.
Like real quick, your

2277
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:49,400
sensitivity is what's missing.
Like just to be very honest,

2278
01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:51,960
like what I'm pushing back
against is your sensitivity.

2279
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:56,360
Your level of sensitivity is not
omnipresent among Jews who

2280
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:59,640
talked to non Jews about this.
Because it's convenient and it's

2281
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:02,160
not fun and it's not easy.
You know, it's, it's really.

2282
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:05,040
That really bothers me because
if you just show a modicum of

2283
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:07,960
respect for how hard it is for
everyone, which again you did

2284
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:10,840
I'm I'm making sure to make sure
you don't misunderstand me.

2285
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:15,200
That's all I'm asking for is
just like, and I'm asking for

2286
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:18,680
that from left wing people who
hate Israel also is something

2287
01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:21,760
look, just admit that it's not
easy for any of these people.

2288
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:24,720
And as you know, because you're
married and as you know, because

2289
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:29,160
you're like friends with people,
you don't create peace by acting

2290
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:32,400
unpeacefully.
So like someone meaning both

2291
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:36,200
like at some point, first of
all, obviously it's the powers

2292
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:37,920
that be and it's the
racketeering and it's the war

2293
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:41,480
and it's a prophet.
But but at some point the

2294
01:46:41,480 --> 01:46:44,720
underclass has to throw the
ruling class over.

2295
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:47,600
And then unfortunately, every
example we have of that is utter

2296
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:49,640
chaos in hell.
And then just some new person,

2297
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:52,680
you know, was it Robespierre?
Was that the French Revolution?

2298
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:55,480
They, they, the guy who led the
French Revolution was beheaded

2299
01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:58,520
and kicked out afterwards, the,
you know, Trotsky was shot,

2300
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:01,600
Lenin died, Stalin was probably
poisoned.

2301
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:05,000
Like, you know, the, the good
guys who take over from

2302
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:08,000
authority don't end up being
good most of the time, not all

2303
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,840
of the time.
And the ones who do end up being

2304
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:12,800
good are usually assassinated by
buy a cabal around them so.

2305
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,720
Yeah, yeah, well, that goes back
to, you know, and that goes to

2306
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:18,400
my one of my favorite Jerry
Garcia quotes, which is anyone

2307
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,520
that wants to be a leader
shouldn't be, you know, anyone

2308
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:24,840
that anyone that says, hey, I
want the crown, you know, I want

2309
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:27,280
the presidency.
I want hey, man, get out of

2310
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,800
here, man.
You know the best, the reason

2311
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:32,480
why the best bands are the best
bands because they love music,

2312
01:47:32,480 --> 01:47:34,320
not because they want to make
1,000,000 bucks, not because

2313
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:36,600
they want to, you know, get
valid is because they want to

2314
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:38,440
express themselves.
And that's and that's the best

2315
01:47:38,440 --> 01:47:40,840
way to do it.
And so the best leaders and you

2316
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:44,320
know, are not to be the people
that like the best leaders are

2317
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:47,200
#2 that are forced to be #1 you
know that, you know that, that

2318
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:50,640
are not, that they do not want
that position.

2319
01:47:50,640 --> 01:47:52,680
And they want to, and they want
to democratize.

2320
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:56,640
They want to say, hey, I, if you
want me to be like the

2321
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:01,760
representation of like what you
guys see in yourselves, OK.

2322
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,640
But I don't want to tell you how
to like, like how to be

2323
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:06,200
yourself.
I, I can't do that.

2324
01:48:06,440 --> 01:48:09,760
And I think that, and it's easy
to, and by the way, there's

2325
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:12,200
something I was talking to one
of my students about this too.

2326
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:16,720
Money, money.
People value money because it

2327
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:21,400
shows their own worth to them.
It's a physical manifestation of

2328
01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:24,440
what they're, of what they feel
like their contribution to the

2329
01:48:24,440 --> 01:48:26,200
world is.
And so when they, when I have a

2330
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:28,440
lot of money, I must have
contributed a whole lot.

2331
01:48:28,440 --> 01:48:30,560
And therefore I'm really smart.
And therefore I'm really, I'm

2332
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:33,720
really important.
Power is controlling other

2333
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:36,920
people, you know, like money is
like the influence, you know,

2334
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:39,880
like a manifestation of, of what
you provided.

2335
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:43,120
And then power is a
manifestation of how much other

2336
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:47,120
people want to be like you and
like how much of an influence

2337
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:48,760
you have on other people and how
they.

2338
01:48:48,800 --> 01:48:53,000
And that is, I mean, if, you
know, evolutionarily and

2339
01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:56,040
biologically, we want that
because that guarantees us the

2340
01:48:56,040 --> 01:49:00,040
best resources, but it's the
sickest form of the sickest form

2341
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:02,840
of control.
And also devoids all

2342
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:06,360
individuality, devoids people of
life, devoids communities of any

2343
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:10,000
kind of spirit that they have.
I mean, it's, and you know, when

2344
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:12,440
we talked about again, the, the
breakdown of, you know,

2345
01:49:12,440 --> 01:49:16,160
institutions, Harvard, you know,
I, I had a great poetry.

2346
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:20,360
One of my favorite lines my
poetry teacher wrote was I

2347
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:23,200
suspect poetry because it makes
inside jokes and talks to itself

2348
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:25,760
too much.
You know, like, how are you

2349
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:29,080
supposed to even get poetry if
you, if you don't, if you can't

2350
01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:30,760
speak it, if you don't
understand what it's talking

2351
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:33,800
about, it's not relating to you.
The most beautiful poetry is

2352
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:37,160
something that is when I talk
about doing a barbecue and after

2353
01:49:37,160 --> 01:49:39,640
on Sunday afternoon and my kids
are running around.

2354
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:42,360
I have a cold beer that's just
getting a little warm in my hand

2355
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:44,520
and I take a bite of a burger
and the juice falls out the back

2356
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:48,000
of my hand and everyone can
taste that burger and everyone's

2357
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:49,920
mouth could salivate.
Or when you when you walk into

2358
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:52,520
that pizza, the shop and you get
hit in the nose of the smell of

2359
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,240
like that, that, that, that,
that, that that's brick oven

2360
01:49:55,480 --> 01:50:00,280
and, and, and, and the humans in
the room are like, I get that, I

2361
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:01,800
get that.
But the second that you go to

2362
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:04,160
that place where you're like,
you have to be part of my club

2363
01:50:04,160 --> 01:50:07,040
to get my humor.
Screw are you man, who are you?

2364
01:50:07,120 --> 01:50:10,560
You know, like what about?
So I think that all this kind of

2365
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:12,840
comes from the same, everything
we've been talking about comes

2366
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:17,120
from the same place, which is
the desire to control resources

2367
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:18,840
and people around you for the
best.

2368
01:50:19,200 --> 01:50:22,960
And what we and what I believe
the purpose of religion as a

2369
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:26,720
whole is, is to get beyond that.
It's in it's, it's the evolution

2370
01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:28,680
of consciousness.
We've evolved physically

2371
01:50:29,200 --> 01:50:31,040
wonderful, great.
We do, you know, that was

2372
01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:32,560
awesome.
Now we need to evolve our

2373
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:34,560
consciousness in order to get to
the next level.

2374
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:38,240
And right now there's forces
that are trying to keep us on a

2375
01:50:38,480 --> 01:50:41,120
step down on our consciousness.
You know, they're trying to keep

2376
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:43,480
us primitive with our
consciousness and, you know,

2377
01:50:43,480 --> 01:50:47,120
culture wars and, and, and, and
politics and all this shit.

2378
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:49,520
And, and it's fun and it's
addicting because it feeds into

2379
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:51,760
the, our, into our biological
nature.

2380
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:53,680
But the whole point of religion
is to get beyond that.

2381
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,360
So you know that that's when
people talk about the spiritual

2382
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:57,640
battle.
That's what it is.

2383
01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:01,000
Yeah, it's great because
transcendentalism is just using

2384
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:04,840
the word transcend and to
transcend the human body and the

2385
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:09,200
lizard brain especially is
definitely why religion was my

2386
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:13,240
word invented.
But I think before religion was

2387
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:16,040
invented, there was no need for
a word like religion because

2388
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:18,360
everyone actually just did live
harmoniously.

2389
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:21,320
And you know, an example of this
is any biotic community.

2390
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:24,760
Toads don't think I am or am not
going to get eaten today.

2391
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:28,360
That fly has value to its life.
Toads are just like hungry, eat

2392
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:33,800
full, but they don't like amass
toad kingdoms and then start

2393
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,320
conquering.
You know, so like, I do think

2394
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:39,720
you, and that's kind of what I
was saying is I wish there was

2395
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:43,680
like kind of a worldwide missive
that said like, hey, there's a

2396
01:51:43,680 --> 01:51:46,240
reason everyone picks the
religion that speaks to them and

2397
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:48,840
there's, and it's a good thing
and it's good to cultivate

2398
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:49,880
these.
So should we should have

2399
01:51:49,880 --> 01:51:52,320
learning centers everywhere?
What what bothers me, because

2400
01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:54,080
we've talked, I've talked about
Jehovah's Witness versus

2401
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:56,240
Judaism.
Judaism is one of the only

2402
01:51:56,480 --> 01:51:59,760
religions I know of that
encourages practitioners to ask

2403
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:03,480
questions and to constantly seek
external things and to learn and

2404
01:52:03,480 --> 01:52:06,160
compare and contrast.
The Amish actually have a really

2405
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:08,920
cool thing where they tell the
kids to leave for six months and

2406
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:13,360
then come back.
Run something.

2407
01:52:13,360 --> 01:52:15,480
Run Spring.
Yeah, something.

2408
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:17,160
Yeah.
And I actually like, deeply

2409
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:18,480
respect that.
Like that's what I want to do

2410
01:52:18,480 --> 01:52:21,240
with my kids is like, and
actually that's a good example.

2411
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:25,840
Just because I've talked about
my 20s and stuff, I went, my

2412
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:28,760
parents raised me with like no
rules except like, be respectful

2413
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:31,320
and be kind.
And so that was like a little

2414
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:33,800
bit problematic in my teens
because it was like a big, like,

2415
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:36,600
you know, like I wasn't a
latchkey kid, but I was like, it

2416
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:38,560
was just, you know, like, as
long as you don't get caught or

2417
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:40,080
and get in trouble, we don't
really care.

2418
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:44,120
It served me well enough.
But the point I'm making is I

2419
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:47,560
did get to like experiment and
kind of go to the depths that I

2420
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,360
wanted to go to.
But I always knew my parents

2421
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:52,160
would welcome me back.
And not that they would not be

2422
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:54,240
welcome, you know, but I knew
that, like, if I hit rock

2423
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:57,000
bottom, I could call them like,
I could actually just like say

2424
01:52:57,000 --> 01:53:00,000
it.
And so I do feel like we should

2425
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:02,800
all just like, have a little bit
of like a runway to play on and

2426
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,640
like experiment.
And so I think Judaism is very

2427
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:07,560
good for that.
I think it's very good for like

2428
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:11,160
saying ask questions.
I do have a little bit of a

2429
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:15,120
problem with any religion and
most of them do this with like

2430
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:17,360
telling a 1213 year old, you
have to make a somewhat

2431
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:20,080
permanent decision about your
life right now because I feel

2432
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:22,440
like frontal cortex speaking and
all that.

2433
01:53:22,440 --> 01:53:26,000
Like, why put that on someone?
So, so the it's not that I have

2434
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:29,400
a problem with bar mitzvahs so
much as no offense to every 13

2435
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:31,320
year old on earth.
You're not a man, you're not a

2436
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:34,040
like you might have adult
responsibilities now, but it

2437
01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:36,960
should be phrased that way.
I don't think it like, you know,

2438
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:39,520
like when I was 13, I don't even
know if I had functional sperm

2439
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:41,400
that could, like, impregnate a
woman, for example.

2440
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:45,000
Sure, Yeah.
But but but I think and and just

2441
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:47,120
to counter that or just to.
Respond I'd.

2442
01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:49,640
Love to hear about this at least
a potential one potential

2443
01:53:49,880 --> 01:53:52,000
response is it's all about
perception.

2444
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:57,240
And I think that especially the
sense of I think that I've found

2445
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:01,720
in my life with adult and with
students and with campers, even

2446
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:05,480
when you set, when you make an
expectation, when you set an

2447
01:54:05,480 --> 01:54:07,080
expectation, people tend to meet
it.

2448
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:09,840
If it's a low expectation,
people are happy to meet that.

2449
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:12,800
If it's a high expectation and
people see that you genuinely

2450
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:15,680
have confidence in their talents
and their abilities, then they

2451
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:18,480
want to go ahead and meet that.
And I think that a big value

2452
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:21,520
that that provides is when you
take a 13 year old who's

2453
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:24,000
brimming with enthusiasm and
excitement.

2454
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:26,240
He's watched his whole community
and his friends and everyone's

2455
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:28,880
telling him how great you're
going to be and how wonderful

2456
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:31,320
you are and this and welcome to
being a man.

2457
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:33,760
It encourages images, adult like
behavior.

2458
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:35,640
And by the way, he probably
won't act like that all the

2459
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:37,840
time, but you're studying to see
he definitely won't.

2460
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:41,200
I mean, as a 30 year old, I'll
tell you, I don't act like a 30

2461
01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:45,040
year old most of the time.
So, you know, I think that the

2462
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:52,080
benefit is that, listen, Judaism
as far as I'm concerned, is

2463
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,480
again, that evolution of
consciousness and has a lot to

2464
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:57,680
do with individuality and
perception and especially

2465
01:54:57,680 --> 01:54:59,600
perception of yourself and
taking responsibility in

2466
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:00,960
yourself.
And I think that it's a really

2467
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:03,160
good thing to start saying to
people.

2468
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:05,160
And girls mature faster than
boys, which is why they have

2469
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:06,480
their bottom.
That's for a year earlier than

2470
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,680
than than than the boys do and
could be.

2471
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:11,120
Five years as far as I'm
concerned, you know.

2472
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:14,640
I think that, I think that the
that the huge value is that is

2473
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:17,640
that a kid starts taking it upon
himself to start studying, you

2474
01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:18,960
know, like start studying for
himself.

2475
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:21,600
A kid takes it upon himself to
participate in a community.

2476
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:25,800
And I think that whether or not
you want to say practically, are

2477
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:27,000
you a man?
No, you're not a man.

2478
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:29,160
But you know what?
Start acting like one, dude,

2479
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:31,440
because this is the best way to
the best way to learn and the

2480
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,520
best way to learn.
And there's actually one of my

2481
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:39,120
favorite concepts in in Judaism,
there's you have Joseph, who's

2482
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:42,240
the perfect son who never did
anything wrong and always passed

2483
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:45,000
every test his whole life.
And there's a million different

2484
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:47,920
things that happened to him that
were really, really challenging.

2485
01:55:48,200 --> 01:55:50,480
And he always seemed to pass the
test with flying colors, right?

2486
01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:54,440
And the rabbis and the
commentaries all have to

2487
01:55:54,480 --> 01:55:57,840
struggle to come up with
potential things that he may not

2488
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:00,040
have done perfectly because like
he nailed every, every test in

2489
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:02,000
the book.
And then you have Judah, who

2490
01:56:02,080 --> 01:56:04,040
turns out to be the king of
Israel and turns out to be, you

2491
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:06,560
know, ultimately we say that
the, that the, that the, that

2492
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:08,400
the redemption comes from his
family.

2493
01:56:08,720 --> 01:56:12,720
And he is far, a far cry from
perfect, you know, and he is a

2494
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:16,440
far cry from, you know, that
same perfect guy that that

2495
01:56:16,440 --> 01:56:20,120
Joseph was.
But what the what the value was

2496
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:24,480
is that there is no compensating
for the experience of having

2497
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:25,680
made a mistake and learned from
it.

2498
01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:30,840
There is no, you can't make up
for and you have in Judaism in

2499
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:34,040
particular, but throughout life,
and I'm sure other cultures in

2500
01:56:34,040 --> 01:56:37,080
other communities and other
forms of literature and other

2501
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:42,640
forms of spirituality is you got
the people that are perfect.

2502
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:44,520
You got the people that screw up
and find their way back.

2503
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:46,800
And the people that screw up and
find their way back always make

2504
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,360
it stronger and always make it
better and always greater.

2505
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:51,840
And, and they both play apart
from one another, by the way,

2506
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:55,200
because Joseph and Jude are are
super, super philosophically and

2507
01:56:55,200 --> 01:56:59,040
morally and even historically as
like tribes and people tied into

2508
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:02,600
one another very, very strongly.
But and Joseph, the perfect guy

2509
01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:07,680
lays the way for the guy who had
screwed up to come to, to, to

2510
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:11,120
make his way back and then to
achieve higher levels and he

2511
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:13,360
ever could have achieved had he
been perfect the whole time.

2512
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:16,600
So I think that I think that we
like what you said, we live in

2513
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:19,680
a, I think that we should live
in a world where play is

2514
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:22,000
acceptable.
That and this goes even to

2515
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:24,320
today's world.
Someone says something dumb when

2516
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:27,440
they're 15 years old on Facebook
and it ruins their political

2517
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:30,560
career or they get fired when
they're 30 and you're like, what

2518
01:57:30,560 --> 01:57:33,840
are you freaking doing, man?
Like this is 15, dude.

2519
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:37,440
Even a year ago I had opinions
that I really would, that I know

2520
01:57:37,440 --> 01:57:39,520
were wrong, you know, And I'm
sure in a year from now I'll be

2521
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:42,760
in conversation.
That scandal, and I want to get

2522
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:44,480
back to one other point, but
that scandal where the kid was

2523
01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:47,000
wearing like a MAGA hat and they
got in a fight and like CNN

2524
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:49,320
started talking about him and
then they had to like retract

2525
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:50,200
it.
And I was like, yeah, that's why

2526
01:57:50,200 --> 01:57:51,360
you don't talk about 15 year
olds.

2527
01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:53,440
Like just shut up.
They're little kids.

2528
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:57,920
They have no the number of
offensive things I said as a 15

2529
01:57:57,920 --> 01:58:00,000
year old pre Internet, let alone
Twitter.

2530
01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:03,720
Like, I mean, I be thrown in a
permanent jail if those are

2531
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:06,760
permanent statements, you know,
and I they were just mostly just

2532
01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:10,080
awful, awful, misogynistic
comments that I was repeating

2533
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:13,160
from song lyrics, you know, just
like things that I was like

2534
01:58:13,160 --> 01:58:15,360
thought made you mature.
But on the note of maturity and

2535
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:17,480
and bar mitzos, I think I came
up with a compromise from my

2536
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:20,440
perspective to yours.
At the very least, instead of

2537
01:58:20,440 --> 01:58:23,560
giving a 13 year old boy a bunch
of gifts when they become a man,

2538
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:25,800
they should have to give a bunch
of gifts to everyone else and

2539
01:58:25,800 --> 01:58:27,680
get nothing because that is like
what?

2540
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:32,920
Like to be a dad and a man and
like, yeah, like, like it should

2541
01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:34,880
be the opposite.
Like the incentivization should

2542
01:58:34,880 --> 01:58:36,880
not be that you get a bunch of
things because if you are

2543
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:41,640
becoming a man, men like like my
wife always jokes, like my kids

2544
01:58:41,640 --> 01:58:43,120
are like, what do you want for
Father's Day?

2545
01:58:43,120 --> 01:58:45,560
And I always say in front of my
wife, I'm like, I can't tell you

2546
01:58:45,560 --> 01:58:46,800
what I want.
And it's not sex.

2547
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:49,280
What I want is like, to be left
alone for one day.

2548
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:54,040
Like just like to like pretend
I'm 25 and I don't have a family

2549
01:58:54,040 --> 01:58:55,440
again.
Like that would actually be the

2550
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:57,600
gift I want.
That's so offensive to my kids

2551
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:00,000
because they can't imagine that
like, but it's also not true.

2552
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:03,600
Like, if you gave me 24 hours
without my family, I would be

2553
01:59:03,600 --> 01:59:07,000
deeply empty and hollow and I
would be like sad by like hour

2554
01:59:07,000 --> 01:59:08,240
9.
I would just miss them.

2555
01:59:08,240 --> 01:59:10,920
I would want to be like texting
updates to my wife about what

2556
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:11,680
I'm doing.
You know what?

2557
01:59:11,680 --> 01:59:14,640
Like, I don't want to go on like
a bachelor party with a bunch of

2558
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:18,800
guys anymore.
Like, I want to be, I, I want to

2559
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:20,640
do all that, but then come home.
Like, you know what?

2560
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,880
I want to sleep in my own bed
and like, like curl up with like

2561
01:59:23,880 --> 01:59:25,920
a pillow in the right spot.
And like, I don't want to sleep

2562
01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:27,720
on like a weird couch in a
hotel.

2563
01:59:27,720 --> 01:59:29,680
So like getting old is like a
weird phenomenon.

2564
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:32,080
And another thing I just wanted
to mention because I am going to

2565
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:33,800
run out of time but eventually
Speaking of family.

2566
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:35,400
But dude, I could seriously
talk.

2567
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:38,000
We have to do this again.
Yeah, I'm happy to do it again

2568
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:38,480
for sure.
You're.

2569
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:42,440
Also going to be my official
person to talk to about being

2570
01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:47,560
Jewish in a family because it is
the hardest thing for me by far.

2571
01:59:47,560 --> 01:59:50,000
Because I just don't.
I don't believe in brainwashing

2572
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:53,280
and I don't believe in shunning
heritage, and the two are at

2573
01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:55,360
odds in my head a lot.
Like they shouldn't be.

2574
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:57,080
They shouldn't be.
And like we talked about this

2575
01:59:57,120 --> 02:00:00,400
off camera last time, but just
because a group of people.

2576
02:00:00,840 --> 02:00:03,240
Represents manifest something
doesn't mean that's what the

2577
02:00:03,240 --> 02:00:05,320
philosophy is.
You know, just like America

2578
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:07,760
isn't a government and Israel
isn't the government and

2579
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:11,080
Palestine isn't Hamas, you know,
like, yeah, you're not.

2580
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:14,720
That's not what it has to be.
Yeah, no, thank you for that.

2581
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:17,200
But one thing I do want to throw
out, because if people who are

2582
02:00:17,200 --> 02:00:19,960
watching are more your age than
mine, another thing that's

2583
02:00:19,960 --> 02:00:24,200
really sad to me is that people
my age and older especially, are

2584
02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:27,200
making decisions about war
because none of us have to fight

2585
02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:27,760
in them.
It's.

2586
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:29,760
Very.
Messed up.

2587
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:33,560
I wanted to swear a lot, but it
is like the saddest and weirdest

2588
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:35,680
thing ever to me.
So like, you have every right to

2589
02:00:35,680 --> 02:00:38,720
talk about like geopolitics, in
my opinion, and America, because

2590
02:00:38,720 --> 02:00:41,680
like, push comes to shove, your
ass is going to be on a freaking

2591
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,320
boat with a gun in your hand.
So like, yeah, better watch out

2592
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:46,880
how much you shoot your mouth
off when like Trump and Biden

2593
02:00:46,880 --> 02:00:50,480
and like talk about Russia and
like wave, wave sabers, whatever

2594
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:53,640
the hell Saber rattling.
It's so offensive to me because

2595
02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:56,600
I'm like, because I'm still
like, technically, if there was

2596
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:59,880
a real bad WAR 44, they'd
probably draft me at the end.

2597
02:00:59,920 --> 02:01:01,920
Of if you were quick, dude,
you'd be in the front lines

2598
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:03,080
right now.
Yeah.

2599
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:07,360
So, but like, oh man, it's just,
it's so sad.

2600
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:10,920
I mean, you, you have children.
So you know this like deeply.

2601
02:01:10,920 --> 02:01:14,040
But like, I can't even watch a
scene where a kid dies anymore

2602
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:15,840
in a movie.
I can't even like read about

2603
02:01:15,840 --> 02:01:18,320
like, and when I hear about a
kid who kills themselves, like

2604
02:01:18,320 --> 02:01:21,440
it is the saddest thing in the
world to imagine raising

2605
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:24,440
someone, instilling them with
courage and confidence.

2606
02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:28,440
And and then like these kids at
school, like she has a bad body.

2607
02:01:28,440 --> 02:01:30,880
She doesn't look like Kim
Kardashian, you know, and like,

2608
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:34,080
and then like that overwhelms
how much a dad can be like, no,

2609
02:01:34,080 --> 02:01:34,960
I love you.
You're perfect.

2610
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:37,200
Don't worry, we waited out a
couple years from now because

2611
02:01:37,280 --> 02:01:39,880
the sad truth about bullying is
like, it really is that bad.

2612
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:42,960
Like it actually in the moment,
like 4 years of being the least

2613
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:45,160
popular kid in a high school.
I wasn't that kid.

2614
02:01:45,160 --> 02:01:48,120
But I'm saying like watching
those kids go through that was

2615
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:51,560
almost harder than like being
bullied occasionally because it

2616
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:54,480
was just like it was like, you
can't stand up for them.

2617
02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:56,480
Like that's suicide at that
point.

2618
02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:58,280
Well, that's a weird mixing
metaphor, but.

2619
02:02:01,200 --> 02:02:03,120
It's like.
It's really sad that like people

2620
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:05,560
don't understand that like the
solution to bullying is nothing

2621
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:07,400
that they're doing right now,
you know, and I know, and like,

2622
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:11,640
like, first of all, 100% you get
5 guys together, one of those

2623
02:02:11,640 --> 02:02:14,800
guys is going to get bullied.
Like it's like, and, and if all

2624
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:17,400
5 have good self-confidence and
like good self esteem, then it's

2625
02:02:17,400 --> 02:02:21,280
going to be fun, you know, and
then hopefully the 5th man out

2626
02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:23,560
like the, the, the one who's,
you know, getting teased the

2627
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:24,960
most.
Hopefully they'll get a couple

2628
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:28,960
good like, you know, ones in on
like, but anytime you're not

2629
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:31,640
allowed to talk about like the
alpha in the pack and then the

2630
02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:33,560
alphas allowed to say whatever
they want, that's where things

2631
02:02:33,560 --> 02:02:34,960
get dangerous.
And that's what high school is.

2632
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:37,480
That's what Trump is.
That's what like overall

2633
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,600
government is.
That's what like all of these

2634
02:02:39,600 --> 02:02:40,720
hierarchical.
That's where.

2635
02:02:40,840 --> 02:02:43,680
Institutions were that's why I'm
sick of institution because

2636
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:47,760
that's because that's, you know,
man, yeah, it's a great point.

2637
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:53,000
It's a great point.
And I think that we that's, I

2638
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:56,200
think that that that's why it's
good to have a dude again and

2639
02:02:56,280 --> 02:02:59,840
not, you know, that the Rogan
mentality is such a healthier

2640
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:02,760
mentality than that.
And like the fact that he gets

2641
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,360
millions of listeners an episode
and that the fact that more

2642
02:03:05,360 --> 02:03:08,080
people are encouraged even on
smaller platforms like this,

2643
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:09,240
right?
Like you and I are just having

2644
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:11,280
this conversation.
It's the equivalent of like an

2645
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:13,720
underground open mic that's
going on and the fact that

2646
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:16,360
talking about and the message is
going to get by the way.

2647
02:03:16,360 --> 02:03:19,040
And you know, I, I was talking
to my brother about this and we

2648
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:21,640
this could kind of tie into
coffin talks and we'll wrap up

2649
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:23,560
for you.
Let you get a couple of words in

2650
02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:27,680
and and push your podcast.
But I saw my brother yesterday

2651
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:32,040
and oh God, I literally just
lost my train of thought.

2652
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:33,520
What we just said.
What was the point we were just

2653
02:03:33,520 --> 02:03:36,080
talking about?
We went from bullying to

2654
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:39,840
fighting wars and then, yeah,
shoot.

2655
02:03:40,840 --> 02:03:41,520
It was bullying.
It's.

2656
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:43,440
Weird.
I know you had something too

2657
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:45,480
because I could feel it.
Oh, I'm trying to think.

2658
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:47,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was bullying and then it was.

2659
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:50,600
Institutions, Institutions.
Institutions.

2660
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:53,200
People in.
Power.

2661
02:03:54,240 --> 02:03:56,120
It's cuz you started talking
about coffin talk and your brain

2662
02:03:56,120 --> 02:03:58,280
went into like a different.
I did.

2663
02:03:58,280 --> 02:04:00,480
I did open mic circuit Joe
Rogan.

2664
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:07,160
Joe Rogan open mic podcasting.
Hang on, give me two seconds.

2665
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:08,960
It's going to be.
We're talking.

2666
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:12,880
It's gone.
Forget about it.

2667
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:16,320
Well, the one thing I'll say
just because maybe you'll figure

2668
02:04:16,320 --> 02:04:18,480
it out while I'm saying this
about Joe and specifically

2669
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:21,080
another thing he said as a good
example was like people said,

2670
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:23,840
why have you said the N word
like many, many, many times on

2671
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:25,960
your podcast?
Here's like a clip a real I made

2672
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:29,560
of it and the guy like just came
out and said like they're right,

2673
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:31,600
I'm wrong.
Very Louis CK at moment, like

2674
02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:34,240
the two of them have a lot of.
And then he said, I'm going to

2675
02:04:34,240 --> 02:04:36,040
just have as many black guests
on as I can.

2676
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:38,360
And that wasn't pampering or
fake.

2677
02:04:38,360 --> 02:04:42,360
He actually felt remorse.
He actually wanted to make up

2678
02:04:42,360 --> 02:04:44,440
for it.
And then what really impressed

2679
02:04:44,440 --> 02:04:47,360
me, though, was all these black
guests flocked to come on his

2680
02:04:47,360 --> 02:04:50,320
show and not because, like, they
hated his guts and all that.

2681
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:53,160
They actually came to his
defense to say, like, I'm really

2682
02:04:53,160 --> 02:04:54,920
glad you're doing this.
Thank you for opening up.

2683
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:57,800
Like more so like that to me is
like the example that I want

2684
02:04:57,800 --> 02:05:00,760
like children to see more of is
like and again, I brought Lucy

2685
02:05:00,760 --> 02:05:04,400
K, but like his crime was more
of a crime and like what he did

2686
02:05:04,400 --> 02:05:07,920
was way different.
But the point is, real men are

2687
02:05:07,920 --> 02:05:09,960
accountable.
Real men can admit that they

2688
02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:12,840
made an actual mistake, and then
they can try to make up for it.

2689
02:05:12,840 --> 02:05:16,680
And society needs to give people
the room to make up for it.

2690
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:19,160
You can't just say you're
persona non grata.

2691
02:05:19,160 --> 02:05:21,160
You're out.
Like, you have to give people a

2692
02:05:21,160 --> 02:05:23,040
redemption cycle.
You have to let Michael Vick out

2693
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:24,800
of jail.
You have to like, I don't know

2694
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:27,040
if he's a good guy anymore or
not, but yeah.

2695
02:05:27,400 --> 02:05:30,280
No, but that's exactly the point
of, you know, the, you know,

2696
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:33,480
Judah never becomes Judah if he
doesn't get that opportunity to

2697
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:35,080
come out, you know, to redeem
himself.

2698
02:05:35,120 --> 02:05:39,480
And like we definitely those
opportunities, you got 3 minutes

2699
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:43,360
to make a last message, last
message for this podcast.

2700
02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:45,960
I'm sure we'll do another one,
you know, in a couple of months

2701
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:48,720
for sure.
Last message for today and push

2702
02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:52,560
your push your show.
Yeah, I think my message is

2703
02:05:53,560 --> 02:05:57,520
friendships come in weird places
and weird modalities and like, I

2704
02:05:57,520 --> 02:06:00,920
now have a friendship with you
and it's as simple as that.

2705
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:02,680
It's like, you came on my show,
we clicked.

2706
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:05,400
My wife was like, why were you
in the room so long?

2707
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:06,880
You went like long.
And I was like, oh, no, we just

2708
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:08,160
talked for like 20 minutes
after.

2709
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:11,640
And like, and then I open up on
this podcast with you and yours.

2710
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:14,240
And then I enjoy myself.
And then what's weird that I

2711
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:16,440
didn't understand when I was
younger is you and I don't have

2712
02:06:16,440 --> 02:06:19,040
to start texting every day and
keep in touch and like, like

2713
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:21,600
twirl our hairs in bed at night
and like make our wives nervous

2714
02:06:21,600 --> 02:06:22,840
that we're going to like run off
together.

2715
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:24,800
Like we can just be casual
friends.

2716
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:27,520
And then when the time is right,
like, you know, the friendship

2717
02:06:27,520 --> 02:06:29,160
emerges.
So I would just encourage people

2718
02:06:29,160 --> 02:06:33,600
to like understand that like we,
we talked about like my word is

2719
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:37,760
ghosting, but fading, you know,
like, like these two things.

2720
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:42,320
Like I do think the younger
generations don't understand how

2721
02:06:42,320 --> 02:06:44,880
to let things go.
Like, and it's not because they

2722
02:06:44,880 --> 02:06:46,640
don't know how, because they're
immature or pathetic.

2723
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:50,000
I think it says there's no model
for it, which is like, people

2724
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:53,760
used to retire on their own.
Now we have like, politicians

2725
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:55,320
just won't retire.
And it's pathetic.

2726
02:06:55,320 --> 02:07:00,320
Like Ruth Bader Ginsburg screwed
over her entire team by refusing

2727
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:02,400
to retire.
She should have just retired.

2728
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:04,960
She would have been replaced by
a Democrat and then things would

2729
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:08,280
have worked out for their team.
Meanwhile, Trump should have

2730
02:07:08,280 --> 02:07:12,040
retired, you know, Biden, God,
man, that guy should have

2731
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:14,320
retired.
Like, so I would just say like,

2732
02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:16,600
let things go.
Understand that there's a phase

2733
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:19,200
to youth, understand that
there's a phase to like partying

2734
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:21,160
your face off.
You know, like Amy Winehouse's

2735
02:07:21,160 --> 02:07:23,000
problem is she couldn't stop
partying.

2736
02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:25,720
Jim Morrison, all these people.
So to tie it together, what I

2737
02:07:25,720 --> 02:07:29,120
really want to express to people
is like kindness is king and it

2738
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:31,160
works.
And like, Ephraim and I are not

2739
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:33,800
going to agree on every nuance,
let alone everything.

2740
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:37,400
But like, we, we didn't like,
politely disagree.

2741
02:07:37,400 --> 02:07:39,600
We just had a conversation.
I couldn't even say like what I

2742
02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,720
agree or disagree with you on.
It's more that like a real

2743
02:07:42,720 --> 02:07:45,480
natural conversation involves
not fearing conflict because you

2744
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:49,400
trust the other person to not
bombastically overreact to what

2745
02:07:49,400 --> 02:07:53,480
you say and to feel you out and
to like, like, shrug off certain

2746
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:54,840
comments.
That's something I've really

2747
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:59,200
gotten better in my 40s is like,
just shrug off some comments,

2748
02:07:59,200 --> 02:08:00,080
people.
So yeah.

2749
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:02,640
Oh, I host a podcast.
It's called Coffin Talk.

2750
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:07,560
I also write professionally,
novels and nonfiction, and I

2751
02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:08,920
love my life.
I love what I do.

2752
02:08:08,920 --> 02:08:11,120
And if you want to see any or
all of it, including music for

2753
02:08:11,120 --> 02:08:17,160
my stuff, just go to
mikeyop.com, Mikey opp.com.

2754
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:19,400
And that has everything I've
ever gotten in my life.

2755
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:23,280
Cool, but but I actually like
call to action, that kind of

2756
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:24,680
stuff.
I'm horrible at it.

2757
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:25,680
I come from like me.
Too.

2758
02:08:25,680 --> 02:08:26,720
Don't hate this shit.
Awkward.

2759
02:08:26,760 --> 02:08:28,800
Yeah, Yeah.
So like, whatever, dude, just I

2760
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:31,040
hope you enjoyed our
conversation, honestly, and I

2761
02:08:31,040 --> 02:08:33,520
hope so.
I just talk peace in the Middle

2762
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:36,280
East.
Peace, peace everywhere, man,

2763
02:08:36,280 --> 02:08:37,120
that's.
Peace everywhere.

2764
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:39,160
Hell yeah.
Everywhere, by the way, I

2765
02:08:39,160 --> 02:08:41,480
appreciate it, man.
This is this is Mike, this

2766
02:08:41,480 --> 02:08:43,240
awesome conversation.
I really appreciate it.

2767
02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:48,200
And like you said, we'll do this
again soon and we'll call it

2768
02:08:48,200 --> 02:08:49,760
there for now.
Cool.

2769
02:08:50,040 --> 02:08:51,640
I'll wait.
OK.