#134: Joshua “Pacey” Neuman / Venezuela / Free Speech / Oral Hygiene / Parenting

0:01 Welcome to another episode of Come Together, Pat. Yeah, in an apartment building you always get to because there's 100 people see your Wi-Fi. Cheers, dude. You're so fine, dude. I needed, I need a, what do you call it? I needed to this to be a one of those talking, talking things out podcasts rather than. Yeah, I think. So. It started. I I got some guy texted me while we were all going back and forth on our chat about Venezuela the other day. He's like, dude, I would love to hear Pacey. I'd love to hear you, Pacey, record a conversation about this, about Venezuela, And then I'd let me text you and you're like, yeah, I'm down, dude.

0:52 Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, all this stuff is fun. What's funny is you keeping up and you good. Yeah, I then this was almost done. It was almost over pissed. Oh, oh, 'cause you. Yeah, you get a little air when you drink beer. Yeah, yeah, I didn't do that. But yeah, man, there's so many different things that I felt like we always talk about in the group. But it's so much better to just like, have a conversation about and let it let it all breathe. Like I walked to kiddish the other week also that I, I feel like we always have this idea that, that everyone, like I, I always at least think that some of the points I say are kind of obvious. But then you'll see and like you see a lot of people online, like, I don't know, I don't mean it like I don't mean it. And so I'm saying like most people are just kind of going about their lives.

1:44 And that's why it's cool when people put pieces dealing like you'll instinctively know, like Jordan Peterson was good at that originally. At the very beginning, he was like, here's a lot of stuff that like we all kind of know, but no one's been able to kind of like word it correctly. And he came out and said a lot of that stuff. And obviously later on, you can say he, he he is playing with ideas more and maybe he's a little more abstract or whatever, but those original ideas were pretty neat. Yeah. And I bet it's because he's been working on them like he's been working on them for years. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then you got caught with new. Content and you're like. Oh, you see how hard and you see how how having the original staff, it's so hard. That's why I stopped listening to Ben Shapiro at a certain point and not the way because it's funny.

2:26 I mean, I probably disagree with him more now than I ever have, but especially when I was in college and I was a creative writing literature major and I was surrounded exclusively by like far, far left people. And it's funny because I wasn't ever exposed to politics, so I didn't even know what that was like. I didn't know what any of that meant. And I would just hear a lot of people in my English classes trying to explain their perspective and very little of it actually made very much sense. So I was like, well, if this is politics, it's kind of dumb. It's kind of dumb that everyone's kind of worked up about this. Yeah. But she grew at that point was really like, absolutely going through campuses and like, like, just really. He he was so grounded and so evidence based and he was going scorched earth on earth on people and obviously bad on late on bad ideas, lazy ideas at work. Yeah.

3:20 Not thought out, lazy at at worst bad. Yeah. OK, fine. Yeah, and he just did such a good job. He used to go around from campus to campus and his videos were huge. And and you, I'm sure you used to watch those videos. It was like a 45 minute. That was our adventure. That was our child. That was our. Yeah, when we were coming up, that was it. That was the Charlie Kirk at the time. Yeah, he was the, he was the Charlie. And you know who else? Dude who popped up randomly on Tucker's podcast the other week? Milo Yiannopoulos, dude. Oh my gosh, dude. He almost came to Binghamton. My friend Heim Eagleman almost got him to come to Binghamton at the time. And he got and then I think he got cancelled as like as he was about to like join or maybe the university flipped out or something like that. Well, because he's a he was on his flaming, what do you call his flaming bang tour, whatever you call him. Yeah, he was, he was a like provocateur, but it was weird because we, we had words for things that we don't word now. Like, I don't know if he called himself a provocateur, but he certainly said things purposely.

4:14 Yeah, in a provocateur. And he would and he would, he was so, and I don't know if his ideas always fit together, but like 70% of it was that like initial stuff everyone. So it's like cool. And obviously he was, he was gay, but a conservative. So yeah, like a niche. He's a rage beater. And he was, yeah, he was rage before he had rage beaten point. He was an incredibly unique, unique and. And as far as an entertainer, Yeah. Yeah, I mean that how do you beat that kind of entertainment? No. But then he got, I think it was politically, he got that. You know what's so funny? Every time people try, try to silence, that's what we want to talk about. Freeze. Every time people try to silence voices, it never goes the way you want.

4:55 So you got Milo out of the car. I'm not about. I disagree with almost everything. Let's be very vague. He's down for an ethno state. Christian nationalism. Like, is he like, yeah, I mean, he well, because now he they get to come back like this would come back. He knows what he needs to do. He when he when he lost his audience, he went, he said he's no longer gay. And that's something he said and he went and yeah, he said that the whole thing on top. Yeah, the whole episode is about him trying to not be gay. He went to he went to a Christian kind of angle and you know, the only ironic. But now it's it's so contradictory to his nature, like, well, yeah, but he's trying to survive in a world where the the yeah, the thing he would to be provocative thing he was just doing was it Yeah, was snagged. And so he pivoted.

5:43 Listen, you got to respect the of effort. But yeah, I was thinking recently it's it it's so interesting that guys like Lex Friedman and Huberman and Rogan have like kind of catapulted to like this like really historic level of exposure and influence. And in a way that like in the past may have been delegated to musicians or political leaders or, you know, like they, they have taken like such an intense. I really think a big part of why alcohol consumption has been so down in general, it's because rowing quit drinking and talks about it. And Huberman has been never, never really drink and always said like, do drink what you will if you want to, but here's what you're doing yourself.

6:27 Just be aware of what you're doing. That's true. I remember that. I remember that episode came out a huge episode. Multiple people I know were just, I've been drinking for like 6 months after that was scared. I tried to not drink. I severely limited my drinking like 6 months after that. But, but the point is that and, and what I would imagine, imagine is that throughout history, at least through American history, but I think our history in general, the people that are going through the hardest times are the people that become the most creatively fertile and the most trailblazing, I guess in a certain sense, right? The reason why the Blues were so great in the 60s was because that was like the peak at that point, or I guess the conscious peak where where it was so close to getting, we're so close to rights for the black community and so far from it. And like you could taste the freedom. You were right there and you and then the Blues come out of that and soul comes out of that and jazz comes out of that. And I think that I think the spirit of that, of that, the oppression of that and the fighting back and the fighting back, Yeah, yeah.

7:26 And the fighting back isn't the best way possible, is suffering in the worst way, of course. Yeah. And I think it's become so cool to have rejected conventional values that people that have conventional values like yourself and myself feel like, it feels like, I don't assume that people are like interested in getting married or having families or having kids. And like, it almost feels like you're part of a club. If you're like, you know, if you, if you believe in the nuclear family. Like it's such a, it's such a cast aside. It's not, it's not portrayed in Hollywood. It's not portrayed in music. It's not really portrayed in culture. Everything's about individuality and and freedom by untethering yourself from responsibility as opposed to freedom from building responsibility.

8:09 It's funny. I was just, I was just actually like going down a rabbit hole. I mean, it's an obvious one, but you always hear obviously and you hear about, right, Judaism is a, is a box, but life is a series of of restrictions and that is freedom. And you go back to like, and these are like the Cliche or Socrates, Aristotle, right? Everyone always mentions them, no one else. But if you go back to philosophers, that's my thing. It's like, it's like, it's like it's like faux philosophy or like intellectual. There's a great quote by the Plato. Plato. No, but all of the people of that time, we think of the the the mission statement of the Enlightenment, all these things was individuality and was adding individualism to a world that did, you could argue need some level of individualism at a time when people's ability to express themselves.

9:03 Today, if you look at the 2025% of the world doesn't have basic human rights in the free speech, it's almost like an abhorrent way more than 25% does not have free speech. Way more than 25%. I think it's, I think it was back when I looked this up, it was 24%. But then with this China, which stuff, by the way, China has a one out of people does not have free speech. True. True. But I'm saying 1/4 of people. Yeah. So is, if you think about it. Yeah, it's crazy. More people on this planet. Yeah. Cannot say what I think. Like these are the people that just can't like. And then you have countries where it's like half and half like whatever, but they talk about, it used to be the idea of in old philosophy, it was not the shedding of all responsibility.

9:48 It was the idea was you should be allowed to shed whatever you have. But part of that moral equation was you have, you still have a moral affirmative duty to, to put together a framework of your own or you and your colleagues or your community. So you can't, it's not just shed this stuff and just leave it alone. I think that's why you see a lot of people now like the Charlie Kirk stuff where it's like, yeah, well, we want a framework and it's like the government's not going to give you a framework. And I'm very the great point of the itself often like the government is the highest goal, the highest value, the highest, the the Big Brother of society as opposed to something like God or suppose something like community or traditional values, even your own family, dude, like people have more, are more, much more invested in what the government has to say than what their family has to say.

10:40 Yeah. Which is which is why when you think about it, it's just yeah, it's yeah. And so I think yeah, we've so you're right. We've spent so long as a culture and. And by the way, I showed my high school students the The Dead Poets Society. Yeah. Oh, that's right. We're talking about the nominal movie, phenomenal movie. And the. You had seen it. Yeah, I have seen it. Yeah. Yeah. Who didn't see someone we know since she would only only see who was on the call. Calm out. Yeah. But I mean, the fundamental dynamic of that movie is the misunderstanding between the adult authorities and the children who want to express themselves. And Robin Williams is the person that says, listen, like, to be in a Shakespeare play, you have to be great in a Shakespeare play, you have to be enormously talented. You have to put time in for your lines. You have to do the work through the Shakespeare. You have to translate to yourself for yourself what Shakespeare is trying to say as the actor of it. I mean, I don't know if you've ever taken a Shakespeare class in college, but, oh, you're an English major. You had to have, right?

11:41 Did you? Yeah, of course. So I mean, you can watch 5 different plays of Much Ado about Nothing and every single one of them is so fundamentally different from one another just by the way that we before. I mean, that's the reason why when you read a script. So, but anyway, the point so, so this movie was about how a kid wants to act and his dad doesn't let him and says, no, you got to be respond. Like to shut down greatness, creativity and affinity towards the, the, the humanities in the arts is obviously so wrong. But to go all the way the other way to say to pursue the arts to the extent that there is no responsibility. And there is also apparently, and I think that's where we are. And so I think the reason why full circle why things like Rogan and Huberman, unless Freedman are so popular, is because they're people that are, that are not afraid to self. First of all, they don't self censor and they say things like we want family values.

12:42 We respect that, you know, Rogan respects his family and his privacy and humor. Made talks about how he wants to have, you know, get married and have a family. And like, even if you've been following Human's podcast for a couple of years and you notice things like his dad is on and he always talked about how you had a complicated relationship with his dad and then to have him on is like you can feel for him as the audience. Hey, I'm cheering on a father and a son repairing a difficult, obviously relationship difficult and tense and I want to do that. That's beautiful. That's inspiring as as opposed to I know people that have wrote in college thesis papers on why you should never talk to your family again if they're unhealthy and like what you going to do, you know? No, I, I think these are I think it's just life is just very can be very tumultuous and complicated and trying to reduce it down to some.

13:36 Well, I think in general, are you going to talk about the, I think people are just trying to reduce things down to its simplest form because it's bite, then it's bite size. I remember my father had a funny line because he, my father wrote books and you know, very a successful therapist, specifically in marriage and divorce. And, you know, he, he had this joke, obviously this joke because he, he loved writing, he loved great ideas. But he said he's like, I don't know why I write these, these substantive books that teach you real lessons and and tell you about the hard work you can do to, you know, repair a relationship, make the relationship sounds like he's like, I don't know why I'm doing that when, you know, I could just write. I just write a 50 page, you know, wish it wanted do it right from what the fact, like he always joked about that, like he would probably sell more.

14:33 That's what that was the joke. But he didn't want to do that because because he you could. I mean, the reason he's very good at weight because he genuinely loves helping people and and he has the emotional intelligence for it, the IQ for it, and he just very good at it. But that translated into the way that he raised you guys. Like do you see that he was very conscientious about very conscientious. And you can pick that up as his kid. Yeah, more and more as you got older, right. As a 5 year old, I just see, wow, you know, my father's very, he's listening to me like whatever. But but no, he we've talked about it. I even did a little video with him. But where it's, it's, it's not like just about listening, but understanding where someone comes from.

15:17 And I think I've like the world has so much Gray in it. If you just understand where someone's coming from, you'd be shocked how much 90% of the work, how much of the work that yeah, that that gets you. It's just it's it's almost you. You'd almost wouldn't believe it unless you like really try because then you realize everyone's. And that's a thing. I'll talk about Bench. I think Ben Shapiro's mistake recently was kind of leaving that doctrine where he always, I think Peterson said that he said you always have to assume that the person's coming to the table is really means it, right. You can't assume a bad faith actor or you can't or you won't ever engage in that.

15:59 It'll just shut down. You always have to assume the person's being authentic. I know. I'm just realizing one of the issues maybe today is that it's not is that everyone's everyone's with all the rage, but you're mixing up the comedy and the authenticity and it's fun. Listen, I'm not saying it's not good fun, but if if it if you can't really parse it out and if you try to hold someone to it and they dance around it because, well, that was a joke. I said on street, It's it. I maybe that's why it becomes different, by the way. But even if that happens, that does clarify and repair the damage. It does repair the damage and it does, I think for example, like the Dave Smith and Nick Fontes debate or conversation, rather a podcast where Dave, he was like, dude, like you really think that there weren't 6,000,000 Jews killed? He was like, Nah, he goes, I'm not. Are you going to push me?

16:46 That and I'll be like, yeah, OK. Like, I don't feel like I don't care enough to, like, make this statement. So am I going to be inclined to, like, say something outrageous? Yeah. And then if I'm pressed on it, will I change my mind? Sure. Like, it's not, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. And I think that we need more of those type of hills that I want to die on. And then you prove a bad idea to be a bad idea. And then all his listeners presumably will understand like, oh, well, like, if that's not a hill will die on, we're not going to die on the hill. You know, you're like, that's great. So that's the that's the value of the conversation. Yeah. And if you if you let everyone just talk, I don't know, like, it's just so obvious, like I was you speak like one of the things I like freedom of speech. It's like, besides all of the the ACLU work that was done with, you know, trying to protect Nazis, right.

17:27 To to speak to Mark. It's a great article from 2021. I remember it because it was Wall Street Journal. They were, I think, celebrating the one of the last good articles they wrote recently. They wrote about a 20 and 80 year old ACLU Jewish lawyer. It wasn't the main guy. I'm forgetting his name. I apologize, like setting the article. I just remember vitally, and it's him at this celebration on in on behalf of him and all, and he's sitting there at the ACLU event and all the new attorneys, all these young and like as as a lawyer, I understand where they're coming from ambition wise. They're they're playing in the world. They were giving right. They don't want to defend Nazis. They don't want to defend white supremacists.

18:08 They want to defend, you know, they want to do the SJW. They want to do the the that that you know, quote UN quote, good work. And so they're doing speeches where they're saying and we're proud because it's it's it's different branches like each state. We're proud to have defended this group, this group, this group and not this group. And the article goes through the Sky's like almost horror at like this isn't this isn't a defense of free speech. This is advocacy. And this is like a nightmare. And you. We're not. You know, excuse my friend, I'm bullshitting here. Like AI is coming. Like if like are we here to preserve people's ability to say whatever they want whenever they want without prosecution of government or are we not And either you believe that the people's ability within 10 years.

18:54 We're not, I don't think. And that's the worry. Yeah, I think that we're already kind of not there, but it's. But I think that here's I think I think that all the information is being consumed and recorded and stored. I think that if it were acted on and it and and the people that were collecting information, whether it by the way, again, and you know, there was such a great explanation for this quote UN quote deep state, which is the equivalent and such a great example of metaphor of a renter and owner. You know, and and and and the top positions are general within any kind of government bureaucracy, There tend to be renters. They're there for four year terms, 2 year terms sometimes. And then they, and then and because the people on top, Tulsi Gabbards, the the RF KS, the so the Marco Rubio's, Marco Rubio's will be done in four years from now. And then you move on.

19:48 And but the people 2 two steps below him are, are losing their jobs. Yeah, yeah, you're right. But so I think that those people are the people that are saying, hey, we need a tight shift. We need security. America needs to be #1 if you know, and, and honestly and, and, and I guess everything always kind of, again, this is a pendulum swinging safety. Equals less freedom inherently yeah, that's Tom yeah. Tom Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, which is 11. The classic give a little liberty for a little security yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And so I think that right now there is so much fear, whether it's manufactured or not true.

20:35 I think that if they were revealed tomorrow in a mass scale, another Ed Snowden type of situation where the NSA and everyone is in cahoots to spy on all the American citizens, I don't think that many people would be like that upset. I don't think that many people would care that much. I think that a few people would be upset because of principles, and I think that most other people would be like, yeah, I hear. I don't want any terrorist attack happening either. And you know what? I don't want the deranged Trump fans or the deranged liberals or deranged anyone coming at me. And so I want FBI to know what they're saying. I'll Do you want better? Yeah. That happened. You mentioned Snowden. Never Snowden. Remember when that happened? Yeah, I remember when that. I don't remember that happened. I remember. I remember learning about it because I wasn't aware of anything when that. No, no, So.

21:15 No. So the truth is, I remember like, listen, I was as a kid, I was very into politics. But were you as a kid? Yeah. Yeah. Not many people were, but like, I remember when it's like everyone started having like, I was just like read the newspaper and stuff. But I remember Edward so vividly. And it was like 2 months of like, whoa, yeah. And then nothing. Yeah. And it was business as usual. There's no follow up. What do you think of nothing parts where this and that and the other. It was very weird. Oh, the, the I'm not. He hasn't been parted yet. I think he lives in Russia. He does live in Russia now. So I've heard someone say, I don't know if I believe it, that part of the the cost of living in Russia is trading information. And so you can't accept, you can't pardon him or accept him back.

21:57 Oh, because he might have been there too long. It might just be like you can't bring him back on. But then the other answer is that he he might not want to come back if he's really afraid that he's going to get shot down in the streets like this might be just one way or the other. His thing is long done. I mean, there's so much you talk about a news cycle. He's it hasn't been talk about a news cycle, dude, talk about a news cycle. Well, Venezuela, that's how I did a video today that I thought was would you was quite that's here. Well, it was just about the I think. So here's the two ways you can look at it. You can look at geopolitics like the wild, like we saw our chat, right, Wild West where everyone can do anything because listen, outside of your own sovereign citizens, outside of your own nation, you have your own citizens and you have a police force and you can control whatever.

22:47 So but each nation can't really control the other. So we wrote these laws, right? International, international laws. And we said you can't do this, but no one enforces it. Yeah, you can't do this. And it's like that came out of the idea of like, listen, can we not nuke each other because that's mutually assured? Or if someone holds up their hand and the only human being in the neighborhood of war, you say, well, OK, but then if that happens, the rest, besides tonight's a handful of things. You could argue that the rest is just political pressure. Is there enough political pressure to deter? Right. Mutually assured destruction is the best deterrent because. Because then it's it's game over for everyone. India, Pakistan.

23:28 Yeah. So. So yeah, they're they're, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to jinx it. One pod. That's. Right, that's right, the cosmic that's going to be called the cosmic podcast, dude. It's going to be like like one of those cinematography moments where like the IT goes through the wire and this podcast gets into the ears of a general in Pakistan. He's like it's time the privacy. Was like the. Worst butterfly yeah, I've been fortunate to not be involved in any of those at least not be conscious of any of the butterfly effects of any of my actions. So far dude so far so Venezuela. So you made a video you know I so I just did a so it about how so I don't know to what agreed listening could be but now America is on record doing the the manifest destiny or I mean you could say right or wrong.

24:19 Listen, I also agree to an extent that a country in your backyard, you are the superpower of a, of a continent and you're crunching your backyard has more oil, more gold than anyone else. And it's just, and it's not even one of the big countries. They're just, they're doing it. What, you know, they're siphoning it off. So you're like, I'll siphon it. I get that. But you know, Taiwan's up for grabs now. So here is what I heard today on my podcast today, and I've been hearing a lot of this and I'm, I'm not, I've come more around to the attack or not the attack, but to the kidnapping. Then you know, you know, the, you know, what's going on with that.

25:07 There's a every video, every person who's done a video about this, who says the word kidnap. It's like kind of good for the algorithm. There's like 300 comments it's so funny. He wasn't kidnapped, he was arrested. He was kidnapped just that. Over and over you look at what happened there there. Was an arrest warrant, there was an international court. So it's like been good for the algorithm. But it's also like, yeah, it's so funny. It's so funny. I I'm not happy because obviously it creates a precedent, right, that we don't necessarily want to be play out. On the other hand, and I wasn't aware of this at the time that I had this original opinion, China and Russia both get enormous amount of natural resources from Venezuela. I think Iran is also part of that. Iran is also part of that, although Iran has their own obviously very abundant supply, but a big part of the whole process is actually being able to mine usable good oil. That there's different types of oils apparently, and not all oil is necessarily convertible to energy in the same kind of effective or cheap way.

26:20 That is the oil that we talked about when we say that, you know, buying a barrel of oil. And so Trump, if he was able to, which he pulled off, arrested someone that allegedly had a warrant out for him, although again, Netanyahu is a warrant out for him. Can you imagine the explosion that would occur if someone says, Hey, you broke a quote UN quote war crime in a court, found you guilty and we're going to bring you to justice because you're a quote UN quote terrorist. Like, listen, I that, that a, that is scary because there really are courts that have that, that have determined that, that he's a war criminal and there are places that he really can't fly to now.

27:02 And if any of those places decide, hey, you know what, instead of you waiting for you to come to us, we'll do what Trump did, we'll come to you. But put that aside for a minute. No one got, no Americans got killed, no American assets got injured or damaged. So there was literally almost no loss of taxpayer dollars as far as the operation goes. You put a massive wedge between China and Russia's practically Trump just posted right before we started recording this that we're getting what, 3050 million? Was it million? I don't barrels, barrels of oil like a lot of we're getting a lot of oil. We're getting a lot. By the way, not marketing, not not not investing advice, but buy, buy gas.

27:44 But buy Exxon, you know, but. So we are making enormous. At the end of the day, the question really to me for a long time was does America need to act this way, need to act this way? And the answer right now has become a little bit more clearly probably like, yeah. And that becomes the question and probably does that mean do I want 18 year olds getting shot, getting killed in the streets? No Do I want 20 year olds, American troops grabbing Venezuelans out of their homes in like in suburbs, like what was going on in Iraq and shooting up families, God forbid, and being traumatized for the rest of your life and creating terrorists? No, of course not.

28:29 But no one died here. I think there's a couple of Venezuelan deaths from the from the land strikes. I will say no. So the actual initial attack, what a wild that's the whole thing because we want to talk about, I mean, you know, guys like Dan Carlin who are military historians. I mean, they'll be studying. That's a cool. You think so? I think it was very cool. I think that's a wild thing to do. That being said, I just saw, I mean, to think that the entire country will be centralized right now, it's you destabilize the country. That's not there's people in the in certain regions now where there's there's, you know, rogue paramilitary, whatever. It's just kind of wrong. Absolutely.

29:11 And the person you put in charge is still kind of, you know, for Maduro, Well, there's no one in charge. They're being overseen by Rubio Hexath and and one of the dude, yeah. I just I just mean it's it's if it if it's all said and done and somehow they're able to stabilize this country fully and get it to a place where the election cycle could happen. Legitimately happened totally. And by the way, just another step real quickly before before it just happened between as far as China and Taiwan go. China needs energy to invade Taiwan. China needs energy and gas to function as a society.

29:56 And if Trump cuts off an enormous percentage, I think Venezuela itself covers like 20 or 30% of the world's oil as far as usable resources go. If you're cutting off 20 or 30% of we're trying to be getting practically free oil in exchange for the investments that they made and the infrastructure in Venezuela, which they've done, then China's in debt because they put the money into Venezuela, right? So the citizens have to pay the taxes they were counting on free oil as a compensation for that, for that debt that they were getting free oil and and and energy sources. And now that just got cut off while while this business transaction is still in the middle of happening.

30:38 So right now trying to basically, I mean, it's the equivalent of a view in the middle of 12/20. There's someone who arrests the store owner I. Mean like I just. Picked the guy, you know, like, oh. I'm sorry, he's arrested, he's gone, you know. Money's gone. So this apparently, allegedly, ostensibly could hold up China's China's mobility, tactical and military mobility. They, they're going to continue doing whatever they do with their soft influence and their spy power. And that's what they're best at anyway. But it, it looks like it could have pushed off or potentially push off a little bit Venice, China's invasion of Taiwan. I think the, it's possible, who knows? For 70 years they've been non-stop talking about reunification and the other they think big picture too.

31:25 So 70 years is like nothing. I mean, it's like, I mean the ability for this country to wait a handful of years until another president, another foreign policy and then take president 10 presidents. And I'm not saying that. And that's the point I was being is listen, precedent may not matter. It's political power, but if this precedent was and it might have need to happen anyway because I I agree that you're that that Venezuela just I mean, Venezuela is not worth siphoning generally Western resources and creating a hub of Intel. I mean of of not puppet state, but a a great relationship with your enemies is in your backyard. Ricks, You know, Ricks is but, but one could say that Taiwan is the same thing.

32:13 Now, listen, they don't have gold, they don't have oil. But Taiwan is the not like #1 they're virtually the only producer of the supercomputers, the, the, the chips needed for the net for AI. And so you want to talk about the most valuable resource on the planet? I mean, those ships have a little bit of oil is a little bit of oil isn't going to hold you back from getting the chips. Because this ship, how are the four ships they need to take the island Like, like they got billions of people. Yeah. And what? And you're telling me the only thing they got to do is wait? What is it? What's what's 12 months times 336 times? What's 36 + 12?

32:56 So they got to wait 48 months until Trump's out of office and to see what's in stories because maybe maybe they're worried, but whatever the case might be is, I don't know if this is the precedent they needed or wanted or whatever, but it does. I don't to some measurable that changes the game. So I totally get what you're saying. I totally even agree with you. I what I would say is I had a teacher, a rabbi one time in yeshiva that used to say you got to plan your life somewhere between 5 minutes and five years from now. He's like, you're too short sighted. You're going to make a lot of mistakes. You're too long sighted. You're never going to make the short term decisions. You need to get you there to that long term decision. For example, if you want to, if you want to get up, end up with a six pack, you know, by the end of the year, right, you got to take a series of short term steps and decisions that will get you there. You know, and if you think I have a whole year to go ahead and get that 6 pack and then for the first six months you're snacking away anyway and you're not and you're not getting off the couch, you know, OK, now I have half a year and like, and all these little decisions end up making an impact on your ability to actually achieve your long term goal then. So it might not.

34:02 So you're right that China has the benefit of being able to plan and strategically even hold back for a presidency or two presidencies or even 3 presidencies. But if they keep on taking hits along the way and they're kind of just oozy, they're they're, they're, you know, they have a bunch of with the leading out, you know, because of different hits on Venezuela and then tariffs and then this from there and that I get it, I get it. But now and listen, what's the alternate right? Don't take Venezuela. And they do the same thing anyway. I'm I'm not saying that's the case. I'm saying that America's new bullish position is now on, on the, and nothing happens on the world's.

34:45 And, and you're talking about a country that switches leaders every four years on the world stage. The countries that keep the same leaders for long periods of time that, that, that have centralized power in, in a way you can't fathom. I mean, those countries are that changes the geopolitical stage totally. I mean, the resource they want is a part of a island, Nate. I mean, not island nation, a sovereign nation right off of their coast. Yeah. I mean, that's similar from Cuba or. Yeah, I mean, and then you went to a South Korea. Like, I don't know it just. I listen. I don't know when I hear, but I hear. All I know is my whole life I've heard about Taiwan. Yeah. And something's kept them back.

35:25 Well, I guess we'll see what happens. I guess so. Do you know what you. You ever hear of bricks? I just don't know what this term today it's Brazil, Russia, India, China and S might be might be Saudi, but I might be wrong. I don't want to say that for sure. Syria, Sudan, Sandfield probably. But either way, it's basically the largest, the largest countries and superpowers of the world other than the United States that are basically pushing back and opposing Western philosophy from conquering and spreading throughout the world. And so, but these powers are not small powers. Brazil, Russia, India, China, and fill in even whatever 1 you want for the last one.

36:17 That's a lot for the United States and Europe because United States basically supports Europe almost at this point. That's a lot for us to go up against. And so there really is our work cut out for us in the in, in the coming years, especially if we continue self sabotaging and thinking so short term. And we just think about tomorrow, we just think about the midterms and the next election cycle. And you're like, dude, you got to make a decision. That's a little bit more. One of the one of the things that one of the reasons Hope and gang is right, I'm pretty sure I am, is that you had the constitutional amendments right, your inalienable rights and inalienable rights. Foreign policy wasn't one of them. I'm pretty sure foreign policy was sourced from the crown or something like it.

37:02 The idea is like you don't have a right to dictate foreign policy and there was an understanding that who doesn't have a right who as a citizen that foreign policy there, there was two things. There was the there was that and then there was the practical consideration, which is back in a time when like male even now, but for sure then where male is, you know, it takes two months to get a letter or whatever that foreign policy decisions couldn't be made at a democratic level, right? You have to have one guy at the top saying, you know, this, this and that because that's the only way you can. So these other nations, they don't have those political human rights to the people, right?

37:45 But one of the things they do have are one guy at the top who make a decision very effectively in One Direction in might be wrong direction or might be right. Well, what we have, and This is why I, there was a, a great debate that I watched. I shocked the guy, one of the top guys from the Chinese government, from the Democratic Republic people Party. He said, yeah, they have an analogy to use in English. She's like your, your car is 4 wheels going in different directions. Our car is always in One Direction. And then his, it was funny because his thesis was because all of our people agree and we are unified and we agree.

38:28 And then like, obviously the the guy was questioning, he was like, and what do you do with the people who don't agree? You throw them off a bridge. Yeah. Yeah. So so they just weed out. So that is one of the tools that I think come in the coming. I mean, listen, you sacrifice liberty for it, but it's a a practical political consideration you have to make, which is what you're saying, which is every four years your foreign policy shifts. We have Biden and we have Trump and he's like, we need to take over the hemisphere. Yeah, but you know what? It hasn't shifted 50 freaking years. It hasn't shifted as far as foreign policy goes. Now, we might have flip flop back and forth between who we're aligning with and who we're not and like which terrorist, which groups we're assigning as terrorist groups or which groups are inviting into the White House or not. No, but but but they but our foreign policy generally speaking has always continued to be creeping towards expansionism resources.

39:29 And we justify it by saying if we don't do it, China or Russia and someone else is going to do it. And what you sacrifice along that way, all those, you know, hypotheticals that you are checking the box that you've conquered, you've sacrificed all your freedoms in the process of actually achieving all that safety and all that expansionism and all that empire building. Yeah, I, I think, I think I, I was saying in well, every four, yeah, fair enough. Because I, I do think it's, it's like, I think that's basically the same. That is just change that is true. Like what has changed as far as foreign foreign policy has, is concerned almost since World War Two. Well, I think you do have Trump said I'm ending wars. He's just started two more, but people's people's own personal philosophy.

40:17 Could dictate right. So you had Obama was in office and he's like, listen, let's make a deal with the Iranian government and that can look a certain way based on one person. Sure, but then he's bombing Yemen while he's on Yeah, but and he's doing he's and like he's a bombing Libya while he's doing it and like he's doing these things that were part of a foreign policy agenda. I'm not saying there's a military industrial complex who has like tremendous influence career politicians and stuff. I'm just saying that that there's one guy at the top who could make executive decisions and that can change on a time. And if you and especially you might argue that now that someone's gone into office and changed it on a time it's not taboo to do so, like like who Trump, in what sense would he change?

41:01 Well, he's trying to take over the hemisphere. He's she's taking Greenland. He's talking about in the news last year and now now he's now he's officially. That's not like the next 20 days of that same perspective, which is which is imperialism and continuing to or we're saying that as as insistent. Yeah, meaning we had that. That's still like you might say, for example, if, if Obama's focus is on a couple of countries in the Middle East and some focus on Greenland in Venezuela, it's still impossible. We've tried a bunch of yeah, we've tried regime change. Everyone listen, everyone has. That was the whole thing with, with the whole conversation. The whole issue that everyone is having with everyone, with us being concerned about the rest of the world is how many issues we have at home that we are, that we aren't dealing with.

41:43 That's the problem. And I, and I said this before and I'm going to, I'll say it again because I just read this and it kind of, it really blew my mind. I, I don't know if this is true, but it's very easy to imagine this is true. OK, hypothetically, let's say there's three to five people that have half the wealth of the United States. Elon Musk, Bill Gates, David Slash, Larry Ellison, you know the Ellison family, right? And let's say one or two other people, hypothetically, right, if they make 10% annually on their investments, and then the other half of the country, which is everyone else, right? Other half of the wealth of the country makes loses 3% and stays equal right or even as it gains 1% or 2% or 3%.

42:30 The point is you can report a positive GDP, you can report that your economy is going strong and most of the people will not feel it. And that's what's been happening. Trump's been talking non-stop at how great the economy is. But for some, for, for some reason, everyone does. Everyone feels like, hey man, you got your like a year ago, you had your finger right on the pulse of like what everyone wanted. And now it feels like it's so far off. Well, I mean, that goes to the main point is I think there's a stated preference and actual right though the whole actual preference, right? You can say you want something and then you actually what you actually do is different. I think most vast majority of people are just they just want the economy to be good and that's all they want.

43:16 They want to go to that is like all they want and, and and and not to talk down or not like to. I hate when people are like, Oh, we understand the Nick Fuentes people and they're just, they just want to be loved and they just want girlfriends. It's like, no, or like they just want, but there is something to be said that people who have who are frustrated because they can't pay their bills, they can't do this, can't do that. We'll just start getting frustrated in different directions and they'll start getting angry at everyone around them. And then you say, we're going to crack down on this, this and that, on immigration, on this and that, and we're going to, but then nothing's changed. And you're like, what the fuck? What's going on? Yeah, dude. I told my, I just my, when I'm teaching my 9th grade students, I showed them a video about, about white supremacists in America.

44:05 And one of the things that I wanted to really emphasize to them was that they're just that a lot of these people start the same way that everyone else does, which is they're just regular dudes that are working or having a hard time or don't know where to look. And then someone takes the, the, the, the, the premise of truth, which is the world is hard and life is hard and think and like, in order for you to succeed, you have to take on responsibility in your life. But instead of saying that, they said the world is hard, the life is hard. And it's because of XY and Z, and it's because they came here. It's because he's here. It's because she's there. It's because of the Hispanics or the Jews or the blacks or whatever you want or the Indians or whoever you want to call it, right?

44:47 I mean, you could talk about there's tons of white people now, but a lot of people remember when the the Irish and the the Italians were at war. I I have a friend. I have a friend who's always getting beat up. Dude, you're a friend who was Italian. His grandparents. I remember going to them for for one's house. They're talking to his grandpa only speaks Italian, doesn't speak English. Yeah, And if you to this day, I don't know if it's still alive. This was five years, six years ago and he was older. But if you said to him that you were Irish, I mean, he wouldn't talk to you. He would get like angry like he wouldn't. He would be like like people, people forget because now it's like, it's like anyone from Europe. It's okay.

45:34 We just want people from Europe, right? Just pure golden. It's like it's kind of I hated each other when it was just you guys. Yeah, history, 1000 years of history, 1500 years of history, all all I want. So it's like, what do you think that Jews don't do that either though? Like you stick. Absolutely, absolutely. I think everyone, it's just tribalism dishes. So yeah, tribalism. I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just you have to understand the world. We're totally, totally. And I actually explained this the same thing to the students too. I was like, if you think you're better than that, ask yourself why you make fun of conceited people. You're asking why. Ask yourself why you make fun of modern Orthodox people. If you think that you're so much better that you would never be a racist, but like where you would never, like fall for the trap of white supremacy or Nazism, were the not the, what were the experiments called there?

46:20 There was a series of social parents in the in the 60s and 70s that dealt with that question. They said social science right back when social science was real. Yeah. And not just like, can you yell again? I saw an article the other day. I sent it to my family. It was especially my cousin who who was like, I guess she was like in therapy programs, psychology programs in college. And it was science. A series of scientists. Yeah. Determined that pigeons don't like to be screamed at. The funniest. It's like fake social science. Yeah, But back when they did social science and realized that if you were a German child in Germany, I mean, the chances that you would be a part of Nazi youth and accept it. Are you kidding?

47:09 I mean, you wouldn't believe. How? And what do you do with that information? The idea? What do you do? You you try to, I guess, adjust your moral framework where you get it wrong and you just and open yourself up. No, and and what I was going to say before, before is that something full service. I understand where someone comes from is then you're you're almost breaking that cycle. You have you are, you're almost breaking you are. You don't have to agree. By the way, we I've been talking about there are all sorts of people, whether within Judaism, with another, you don't have to agree with them. You're the dude in Rogan. He was a couple of months ago, his black dude. And like he just through being.

47:50 Yeah, for sure. And well, I think of Pete Reagan just through just through his literally awesome personality and being a musician. He turned like hundreds of white supremacists and like Nazis and, and, and got them out of the Oh my gosh. By the way, he was on again because he was on back. I mean, yeah, yeah, he came back. He he, he came back a couple months ago. Wow. He was awesome, one of the coolest characters you'll ever see or hear about. He just wins him. He's like, so he'll walk up to a Nazi. You're like, hey man, why do you? What's up? He's like, I don't talk to people like, why not? He goes. You're the rude of our problem. It's. Like, how's that? And you can't give me, by the way, it's so funny because aggression requires aggression to exist. It's like fire requires air to exist. Regression aggression requires that someone else participate, otherwise it goes away.

48:45 Yeah. And that's why in road rage, if someone says my that, yeah, you're stuck there, like like I'm trying to yell at your. Kid, you're mad at your. Wife, you're mad at your parents and like and then like are your siblings and all of a sudden you hear like these words and you don't want to hear them sometimes because you want to be upset, of course. And you're like, now you're right, Right. You're like, God damn. Or if I want to get out of things, I'd be like, yeah, you're right. I'm sorry about that. I messed up like, well, really. And I'd be like, well, yeah, you know, I totally get where you're coming from. And I should have been more thoughtful about that. What are you gonna say today? You're gonna fight? Hang on. Let's take a quick break. Can I ask you a question? Sure. Do you collect toothpaste? Because there's like 4 in your back there one year. What's going to be going on with toothpaste? Yeah, I do, dude.

49:31 I'm in healthy toothpaste through all the buys. Healthy toothpaste, dude. It cost like $7.00. It's cost like $7.00. Is it right? No, screw fluoride, dude. Is that fluoride? Fluoride. Yeah. That's the stuff that, like, makes you tardy. Like on Earth Day. It saves your teeth. They're all you need. No, you have enough in your water. You don't need more. Now, is it fluoride? What's the fluoride? Makes your teeth stronger with too much of it is bad. Oh, my gosh. They got you. They got you, dude. Are you crazy trying to listen? We're talking about understanding. I don't know where the dude. By the way, I have absolutely no bases for saying. Anyone in your family to have a tooth extraction and you're like, OK, I'll start brushing my teeth. Correct.

50:11 No. So for years I brushed my teeth correct. Right. I was like, what is correctly mean? Exactly what I thought was correct. Circles across your teeth 60 seconds back. Yeah. Behind. Yeah. What is the amateur, of course. Sure, dude. You never know who was or lied to you. It's true. So I remember watching somewhere that. So that was my standard flossing. Watching somewhere flossing wasn't what? You just mouthwash. No. Whoa, I know. See, you cannot mouthwash instead of flossing. So I was awoken because all it takes is like someone in your family or like or whatever extended family to like, start telling you like, all right, we had a tooth extraction, which, by the way, happens as you get older. You'll have that another week.

51:01 Yeah. You have a get a, a root canal and then the root canal, you know, the doctor's head. And they're like, we got to take out the tooth, you know, the doctor's head. She said stop using the hippie toothbrush. No. And they said you use too much fraud. Get the hell this guy. That's not true. Get at it. No, dude, no. So now, so the toothache sucks, dude. So in the last few years I've been I learned how to brush your teeth. And let me tell you something you want to talk about the life philosophy you're talking about that life is, is not the glamour, the glamour you're too. So it's so funny we mentioned this because I think it's a perfect example. The like brush.

51:47 You want to brush your teeth like circular your whole teeth, get out all of your teeth for 60 seconds and then rinse your mouth out and feel fresh. That's the the real hard work. You ready for this? You're supposed to turn your toothbrush to an angle, do little things on each and then and then flick downward. Like flick. I don't do the bad stuff off You do the flick, flick. I, I floss. I don't flick. You flick. But when you floss often enough, there's not a lot to flick. Usually that's where they get you. Who they It's yours. It's yours. Dude. No. And then here's the best part. This is the part that's going to.

52:28 I'm telling your audience is going to believe this part. You're supposed to only use a little bit of toothpaste and you're not supposed to rinse. No, no. You're supposed to just spit a bunch of times. What? Yeah, just leave. What? And they say if you're really time out, once you're really uncomfortable after 30 minutes, you can rinse 30 minutes. Yeah, my balls strung to the. Ceiling for 30 minutes. I isn't that crazy, but that's life. That's the hard stuff you don't want to do. That's the the day in, day out. Work on your teeth, floss, floss. Then you. Floss what? What flick is there? No, no, no. You don't flick with floss you can't flick with floss you can't flick with. It's like a sign.

53:11 This is just talking about for sure there's a sign of it. I was talking to guy. Cheers. Hi, dude. Here's here's the next time question. Go for it. Do you would you rather listen to an hour of Candace or an hour of Nick? Find this well, if it's got to be Nick Fred just because it's he's he's for sure he's that's, that's yeah, that's obvious. Because also with with Candace, you're just for me, it's like a yeah, it's just if nothing's going to make sense or like I'd rather I'd rather just be entertained like I used to listen to. I can't listen to her anymore. Dude, I tried, I've been trying recently and like the big videos and like, yeah, I mean, is that thing going to be off the whole time going?

53:58 Off you're the beep. What beep. All right, I stopped listening. That you stop listening. You know what that is? What is that? That's. I want to do You add ice. What you add ice? Is this an ice machine? No, that's I don't even know what you're talking about. I've tuned it out after like you haven't heard any beeps in the entire time I stopped hearing it. You know, it's crazy. You know, was it you someone? I had someone a couple months ago for for a meal. They said that there Oh, there it is. What is that? It's going on the entire time. It's an hour and a half. It's my podcast. Yeah. So by the way, it's funny how big the mind could, Yeah, you could holding out if you hear it enough. But so that is the old security system. There you go.

54:48 And I have tried, but like, I don't want to pull it out because I don't want like wires hanging out in my house. But I know where it is. I know where the box is and it's coming from that thing. No, no, no. It's that there's a box right there. It breaks you by the hallway fucking wall. Then I got like I got kids. I can't have like a wires hanging out. So the answer is he's going to get the wires. OK, yeah. I'll tell you what it is. I don't hear you. Don't hear. I believe you, by the way. You know, I believe you because I found out that I say, you know a shit ton in the middle of talking every time I'm trying to make a point and there's like a moment of sun, excuse me, your hesitancy and now I might hear. I fill it in with you. No, and someone pointed out to me.

55:29 And then ever since I've heard that I can't stop noticing words, filler words. Someone if someone points it out, you just can't stop. I mean, I just ruined. I just did 160 fucking episodes and they're all terrible, dude. They all just say, you know, every fourth word. Mark Cuban has his his word is he does it all the time. He goes right, he'll say shit, he'll say so AI is the next thing right and and he'll just and they're prompting me able to listen to him without hearing it. They're prompting words, not just. Yeah, but you're not secure in what you're saying. What it. Doesn't make a joke. It's not just stupid people like you. Yeah, it's not. Stupid people like Mark Cuban too. Exactly dude.

56:11 His campaign for Kamala made no sense to me. Dude, why do you do that? He had to. He had to have a reason. He's, you know what's interesting? He's he's good at thinking 2 steps down the road. And I'm not. So a lot of times I'll think of people that are thinking 2 steps down the road. I'll mistake them for being idiots. But this just felt like a really bad, like, just like, just like it kind of just ruins his credibility. And then and then he kept on afterwards. Remember afterwards he kept trying to have debates with people about like, yeah. And he and he wasn't, he wasn't good at it. Yeah. He was terrible. Yeah. Well, just also that goes to show debating scenario for me. I remember, I can't remember who. I think one of these guys, one of these Internet guys, like, why?

56:58 Why am I good at it? Because because I've done it 1000 times. That's all I do. If it's all you do, your idea might. It doesn't even. It's not about the idea. It's just your ability to communicate in that way and organize information in a way that's palatable. Yeah, this is noise. It's a noise machine that I hear from the radio in his room. Yeah. This whole time, dude. No, no, no, I haven't like hearing, hearing. No, no, no, I'm just. I'm just curious. He sleeps in the noise machine. What are I was going to ask you this whole time You heard that? Yeah. What are some some dad tips that you that you picked up throughout the year? Throughout the year, dude. Come on, dude.

57:41 First year of being a dad, dude, having a kid is the best. It's crazy, isn't it? But like what you learn so much Like I know so much more about life, about bringing, bringing up kids now, like they just everything's fluent. Like it goes to show learning new skills. You can still do it because you have kids. You learn whole new skills. And I knew like what was going to happen about with life. I knew that like you knew life was going to change, be ignored. No, I even knew how I just used that. You can't possibly Yeah, yeah, it's like going for a workout. It's like I knew I just now I'm in it. What about you, dude?

58:24 Because you have you have multiple. It's been it's been crazy in the sense that I'm experiencing my own evolution of my responsibility and awareness and consciousness. But I as who, how I see myself having caught up to the way that I behave on a regular basis. That's a fantastic point that your internal sense of self. I still look at myself as a 25 year old and I'm thirty with two kids and I don't look in the mirror and I'm like, what is going on? I, I don't even like to look in the mirror like it's, it's, it's disconcerting.

59:04 It really is, dude. More wrinkles in the forehead. I I, I, I'm looking at myself and I'm like, this dude's a 30 year old. I, I never thought that I'd get to and not even like I would die beforehand. I just never thought that I would live long. I, I thought that 30 was so astronomically far away that like I'm never going to get there. And then like here I am and I'm still me, but I still feel like a 2425 product of I think so I think everyone kind of stops around 20. I think it depends on like when you feel your sense of self is caught up to like yeah, but but I think that's a testament to your living in the moment, right. Like I always, I never had I didn't have that like 30 year old.

59:50 I didn't have that like older epiphany. I think I was I've I've always kind of like I've just kind of like thought life continues just to health, wealth, happiness, like wealth, wealth in on spiritual sense. Sure. Well, physical too is not too bad. Physical is not bad, but. But I never, it didn't like affect me in that way. But I think if you're I've noticed people who are I guess very in the moment in enjoying in that way and I can do that, but not maybe not as easily. Maybe it's different because it's not like that plan ahead thing you were saying. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does. I do you feel like you're a very in the moment kind of person. I am in the moment.

1:00:36 I you you you have a podcast. You're you're clearly doing long term goals. But you know what seem more at the moment than than some other people, right? Yeah, everything's on the spectrum, right? Yeah, I I don't have and I've always been bad at this. I've always been terrible at this. I don't have an idea of what I want. Like I don't if you ask me what an end goal for what my family looks like. I don't know if you ask me what an end goal for what my career looks like. I don't know if you ask me for angle what this podcast looks like. I don't know. I, I, I, I, I I I'm really I I I had for some reason, I have a very, very difficult time. Kidding. No, no, I looked distracted because he was moving around a little bit. I don't have, I don't I, I don't like if you ask me how rich do you want to be?

1:01:28 I don't have a dollar amount on my mind. I'm like, I don't know, however much money it cost to have 10 kids, you know, And then I'm like, that's however much money. It seems like enough money to because I have 3 and I go on vacation. Dude, it's crazy how expensive let's get like get so quickly. And then by the way, to that point, it's almost struggling. Like you see, it's so expensive. And I feel like we're like, I'm sure you're the same thing where it's, it's it's you're almost like just over the like assistance from a ray, you know, you know, you do. Well, anyway. Whatever. Yeah. Why? What do you mean? No, I, I did notice for myself that I think that there. And I've talked, I've talked to my, I was talking to my sister about this.

1:02:16 And I've talked about this in the podcast once or twice already. But the notion that happiness in the feeling of satisfaction, contentness and joy with the life that you're living, it has to almost be inherently separated from the amount of money that you have. Because I think the people that accumulate a lot of money without having a sense of identity or purpose or direction don't know, look at money as a substitute for those things. Absolutely. And so I'd rather have this stuff. I'd rather learn how to speak to my kid and love my kid and not have a ton of money right now then have a ton of money and that makes me immediately not relatable to my kid because my kid knows nothing about shit and he's just listened to what his old man has to say, you know?

1:03:04 And like. So my question is because I feel the same way. And a lot of people I think don't not in a bad way. I think, I think they just listen. Human nature is to need and want resources to survive. Totally. Like, like, can we find what I got to read a book to my kid? Like, like, come on. Like I'm saying, like I'm not. Yeah, I believe me. I'm not talking down. And so I wonder what the what the difference maker is there. What's I don't know if one's right or wrong, or maybe we have the luxury of never having to have worried about, you know, being homeless, right? I don't think you and I have ever had to seriously contemplate the idea of just because, man, never. We're just because we're fortunate enough to have been in the like we talked a culture, a society, a we're a part of what is.

1:03:55 My mind is selling my house and movie to a cheaper community that is a place where I can get more bang for my buck for my house. If I can make three $400,000 in my house in the next couple in the next 5 years North Carolina and I go to Tennessee or North Carolina or something like that and I can buy a house where I right now my I just put up a bug bed in my in shoes room. So let's say if it 2-3 kids in that room, I don't want to, I don't. And, you know, it might be fun for a couple of years. You don't want three teenagers living in, in a, in a, in a, in a, you know, one bedroom. And it could be done. It could be done. It really could be done.

1:04:35 But I don't know if I want to like the question becomes for what? And the question becomes why? And if the answer is because we've been living here until now. So that's why that's a stupid thing. I don't answer. That's a good enough reason for sure. Not, I think if you have a particular affinity to our community or if you have family. But if you, if neither of those things, you know, beat out that, but but my point before was just more the ability to, to prioritize joy and the moment because it once it's gone, it's gone, right? Like that whole thing about this, think about how many people you know, make enough money to afford to, let's say they're making throw out a #200 plus $1000 a year.

1:05:18 The amount of the amount of time that you have to work to make the type of job, the amount of time you have to work to make upwards of $200,000 a year. And that part of the $200,000 generally includes help or a nanny or you know, cleaning lady or something like that. And now you say, how much money would you give up to watch your, your two year old son take his first steps to be there in their lives, to be there in their lives and then say, you know what, how much money? How much would you rather wash dishes and work from home for being an office for 15 hours a day? So let's say you make $120,000 as opposed to $250,000. But you're not paying for a name and. You're not having a cleaning that come and instead you're actually taking the time to spend time with your kids and watch them grow up. And you know what?

1:06:04 If you have to do more work around your house and if your toilet breaks, you go to Home Depot and you buy a $2.00 pedal replacement instead of paying a plumber $75.00 to come to the house and fix it for the same cost. And you say, you know what, I'm going to look for ways. Instead of eating out, we'll make pizza, we'll make date nights. We'll do particular things. But at least I'll get to participate in the development and growth of my family and experience what my kids are like, how they're growing up and how they're participating in the world and, and what lessons are shaping them and what values are shaping them. And you're gone for the whole thing. You're in an office to make 253 hundred fifty, $500,000 a year. And you know what someone else is raising their kids. Guess what?

1:06:47 Take my take that stupid money, man, take the money, take the job. This is my family. This is the future of the world. This is my genes. I I have to make sure that they're doing the right things. It's, it's not only, it's, it's so true. It's very hard, I think for a lot of people. I remember reading an article about his CEO who did that. He was at the top of his, again, one of these artists, he was at the top of his game. And his daughter, his nine year old daughter said to him. And I remember at the time I like understood it. But now I it's like, yeah, so much more emotionally relatable that it was to a, to a, to a 15 year old totally, by the way. And you think you get it as a 15 year old, you think you get it. And he's and he, he was like worth a bunch. Obviously he's the CEO.

1:07:34 So I have a major company and he so he leaves his job to be there with his daughter and like the comments section was like, well, good for him. And it's like now you sit there and you think like this was this guy's whole framework. His framework was my his. I'm sure his value was associated with wealth because he had enough money, right? You're talking about this guy could, could have bought probably 3 yachts and not shed a tear and retired, right? But his whole framework was that and then, you know, his daughter says to him, I guess something obviously something enough that he released, he stops and and and that's an even more dramatic version of what you're saying. And it's so, it's so and because you know what, in a certain sense, it's really harder In a certain sense, dude, kids and kids are so unpredictable and they're not rational. So they keep you on your toes as to how you have to be able to respond to the most irrational requests and behaviors that you can think of.

1:08:41 There's no, there's no linear behavior pattern necessarily with kids. And anyone that thinks to have it worked out, we always, you know, we find out that there's more and more that we're always learning. So you know what, even if we get a general, you know, I think a lot of people, a lot of guys don't know what to do. They wouldn't know what to do if it was 6:00 at night and they had three kids crying and all that had to take baths and then your wife's trying to make dinner and then you're thrown in there and it's your job to make everything calm. Now guys are like, dude, get me to the office. Absolutely. Get me to my desk, get my boss screaming at me right now because.

1:09:23 And I did listen, my father, I was, but I was fortunate. And I said before my father, he said I think he was a very balanced individual, but he happened to have a niche enough where he can be an entrepreneurial individual and be their first kids. And he was at every single one of my football games he was at. I mean, he was at, he was I, I can't, it was only until I was an adult. Yeah. I mean, I was well into adulthood before he decided to, to, to do like the I'll go away and I'll see, you know, the, the business trip. I mean, he would do trips, but here's the crazy part. But the trips he used to do when we were kids, he would bring every one of the each kid would go on a trip by himself with, with my dad. That's so great.

1:10:12 So I remember the handful of times I went on a trip special with my so listen, was he threading a needle? I don't think that opportunity exists for everyone. Do I think that there's a way for me to attain that? I would hope. And that's that's what I'm working towards. I don't I don't think I'm working towards working to to you know, to your to your point. Yeah. But almost it's best of both worlds. But you have that beautiful opportunity where you. I go for my my 11:00 in the afternoon jog and I see you on your walk when you're getting it. Never from home. Yeah, exactly. But you get to be there to watch your kid grow up. And I, I, I, I just, you know, the same way that I think the world would be a better place if more people looked at themselves like teachers and the people around them like students. I think the world would be a much better place if people looked at family not as like a dead weight that holds you back, but an opportunity to really truly extend. And, you know, it's also fun and we could wrap up soon. Don't work it out.

1:11:22 Yeah, sure. Yeah. I was leaving my phone to see if my wife. I was talking to, you know, I was talking about students because again, in Dead Poets Society, you know, the the the main character, his dad is not wealthy relative to other kids in the school. And he says, he keeps on saying that the movie. And you don't really know what he's referring to, but you understand that he sacrificed a lot to have his kid attend this top tier private school. And, and you, it's very clear that the kid is the father is expecting his son to fulfill his dreams. And I, there was a life that I wanted to live that I couldn't live. And you are going to live it for me, whether you like it or not. And that mentality exists with teachers. That mentality exists with parents and, and, and and and it's by the way, it's totally natural. I mean, these are these are genes, these are these, these are kids.

1:12:18 If you're not working for the best life that you could possibly provide them, what are you working for? On the other hand, you're not putting, you're not giving them any input into anything that they do. You know, you're not letting them be them or you're not. I think that's the whole thing. You're trying to be like, I'm going to be a frame 2.0. This kids going to be me without all the bugs. Yeah, You know, we take take all the bugs out and it's it's a terrible way to raise a kid. I don't know if there's a right way. And we're going to all be raising kids with AI in the world. It's it's going to be AI. Think it's dude, I'm not, I'm not going to give my kid a smartphone for a long time. But then then you have the challenge of trying to, I mean, then your kids going to be the Amish kid. Yeah.

1:12:59 He's going to be the kid that, yeah, doesn't know how to enter into the world. No. What are you supposed to do? I think that I think that that's the value of community. I think that that's I think that there's a real value. I think that there's going to be in the world that we're in, in the community that we're in, that there's going to be enough people that interact on a regular basis without that, you know, that have similar values that there's going to be this kind of isolated pocket of community that even if the kid might be one of the few in his class, hypothetically that is not have a phone, even though I plan to probably send him tomorrow to school anyway. But even if not the people that that his his friends and the and the world that he grows up in is not going to revolve around that. And I also hope to really be transparent. I think that there's, I think that there's, I think that one thing that my parents didn't do as much, which I really could have probably benefited from, even though I understand. And as I got older, because as, as you know, as things happen, you're like, I'm not a glad I'm not having this conversation with my parents, like figuring out like what this is. You know, on the other hand, I really would have liked like some kind of heads up as to like what's going on. And they didn't even know what was going on. You know, I mean, when I was 14, I had to go to my mom and tell her to put a block on my phone.

1:14:17 Like she didn't think to do that by herself. She had no idea what I was able to access my phone. And and like, I had and I had such a strong sense of Jewish guilt that, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, whatever with that, with that without feeling bad about it. Yeah, Yeah. I seriously did, you know, but but that, but that is that Catholic. But that that's right. But that, But I I also think that that shows what instilling values. Like my mom didn't know that porn was accessible for a 14 year old on a smartphone to like go in a private browser and go to Google or download an app because the private browser was blocked or whatever. And like she didn't know that, but she instilled me with enough values to say, even when I'm, even when I figure out a way to do it, it doesn't, it doesn't sit right with me.

1:15:02 It's not the thing I want to be doing with myself, but with my time. So if that, that comes back to, to, I think the the point about creating a moral framework where if there are pockets of if, if for some reason you find yourself with an excessive amount of individuality and you're sitting there thinking, you know, I have all this freedom, but I'm just scrolling through an app that's meant to tap into the lizard part of my brain and drain me of my dopamine because I'm just searching, searching, searching. And then I'm at the end of an hour and I'm like, if you're sitting there and doing that and you're, you're fortunate to have people who I guess did the hard work and said, Hey, listen, here's a framework that when you came in contact with that obstacle, you're able to say, hey, listen, this isn't good for me. This is too, too much access to to an external pleasure that yeah.

1:15:56 So you think that having you and that having that you guys generally being around for your kid will be more likely to reinforce that very healthy absolute moral compass. It's why I don't. It's why I'm not thankless, hopefully, right. I'm, I'm, I'm able to, I, you know, my work doesn't take me so far away from, from being able to raise my kids actively. But for sure, Debbie, hopefully, of course, the I absolutely think that one of the reasons is like everyone's like which school to send kids to. And I think the school matters. And this may be because the way I was raised, so I was homeschooled.

1:16:39 So it may be that that I feel this on a different level than other people, but my interaction with Judaism, my interaction with society, I mean, all of those things were from the the home. And it wasn't, it wasn't like, because there's two ways to do it. There's the fear of the outside world, which is absolutely the case. Most homeschoolers from back in the early 2000s. Today it's different because of social media, but back in the early 2000s, if you were homeschooled, a lot of those parents were were Christian or evangelical, like very ultra like we don't believe in the public school system. The devil's work. Is that what it was? Absolutely.

1:17:20 All of those kids were not all of them, but a lot of a lot of those kids were, were just very, you can see very bogged down with the with with the, with the narrative they were given. I was given a very creative narrative and a very yeah. And it reflects the way and it reflects the way that you feel. I thought, I thought of my life like Little House in the Prairie. It was, I really, I really enjoyed my upbringing tremendously. And it gave me a framework. And so I, I do think at home you can, you can communicate a framework so that if the, if a kid is in school or interacting with society and they're like, well, listen, this doesn't sit with me the way I want it to.

1:18:03 You can be the, the, you, you know what I mean? Like you have more, you have more control over what happens to your kid that I think people may realize. And, and the less of a stranger you are to your kid, the more your kid, the more your kid can communicate with you. And the biggest problem that happens with so many people is that they feel like their parents can not and will not or do not hear them. You know, whether it's intentional or not, they, my dad does not hear the words that are coming out of my mouth. He he hears the words. He does not put them together and process them. He doesn't get me. You know what? I'll talk to someone else and that's on him.

1:18:46 Yeah. You have someone. You have to. I'm curious that you have someone else coming up. Not that he wasn't there for you, but my dad was always was always a little bit more aloof emotionally, but always very dependable. And almost every other. I'm not saying you're dead, that's my point. I'm not trying to say that my mom was excellent emotionally. And so I always had a combination of fallout, like fallout, like there are times where my mom would be far too rational.

1:19:35 I'm in your house, dude. Oh man. Yeah, in case that the park got cut off. But either way, my dad was more supportive in most of the ways other than emotional depth. And like he would always support you, he'd always come with it, come to you for things he would always like. He would participate with you. He's very participatory, but my mom was real. Like you talked to her about dating, you talked to her about feeling like your teacher hated you and you felt like you were an idiot at school and like, and like you could talk to her about the more real insecure aspects of life that. And sure, by the way, it's I think it's good that each parent kind of takes on different responsibility that you can look at one for one thing and the other for the other thing. And everyone kind of has their roles. Absolutely. I think that's a great thing.

1:20:17 But there was just. And again, and to keep going back to this movie, I guess could stop my mind so strongly. But the Deadpool Society where the entire time the main character can't look at his dad. Like he could talk to him and he could talk to Robin Williams and he could talk to a teacher that makes his. And you could see that the dad has his own pain and the dad has his own problem. And there's just like this, this, this terrible cycle of, of aloofness and not relatability from father to son, where the relatability is so necessary because a kid is looking how to navigate the adult world from the only role model that he knows, which is his dad. And like, it's so it's so sad when when that's not the case. And not to say you can't get out of it. Not to say you.

1:21:05 Can't make a life. But you know what it does fucking suck. It does sucks. It's harder and it doesn't feel as good. It's not as colorful. And I'll I'll say the the like I I think I handled things. It was more of an internal dialogue, but my twin brother who was who is to this day the if not one, you know, obviously if my spouse anything, but I'm very, very close with my father, my parents, my I mean my family. It's even even if you don't utilize it, having that connection with people that they're always there if you need to is also it works. And to know that you could do it under the hood that that you, because that's what it expands your world from an internal dialogue to the option of of this kind of like vibrating universe around you, right?

1:21:59 If you sit there and you have an issue, you may, you may deal with it on your own, but the just kind of knowing subconsciously that if you couldn't handle that issue, which we all, sometimes it's just too much and you have to kind of like search outside your own head that there's all these different paths to handle that. And to think there's so we don't have to, we don't have to go down this. That's all. That's all I don't want. Fair enough. We don't have to go down this hall if you don't want it. But what do you think is the, do you think there's a value, but you don't think it's there's value to loneliness And like the feeling of like, I would say value. So like value. I think like I happened to have a couple of stretchy years of my life where I really felt like there was no one that could relate to me in my hand. You, you, me.

1:22:48 They couldn't relate to me, to my to, to, to what spoke to me, to what I was looking forward to what I found meaningful. And it was profoundly lonely, but it also helped me build and recognize my own identity. So, so I'm not saying just you, you, you kind of said the answer, I think, and that I was going to say this anyway, which is, I think if the loneliness it produces a, a kind of lets you develop your internal monologue. I think then you're sitting there developing your internal monologue, which I relate to. I, I have an internal monologue.

1:23:32 I think a lot of people have it and it's, it's a, it's a, it's a rich sense of self. I think you use God. I think, I think there's a lot of ways. I think it plugs into God a little bit. I think if it go if it's not that I just I don't think I'm I'm yeah, not only destructive, but it's it's so antithetical to the human condition and it to the point where it's a great point where the it's used as punishment, the crazy isolation. So, so, so it's it's so funny because it's so incredible at a certain point. Yeah. And then and then it like that, it could you're sitting there like, fuck, it's just me. And that's where and then you're then then a lot of people get, or you could be one of the quote UN quote lonely people. That's one of the powerful people, you know, and you feel like you don't play the same game as everyone else. Yeah.

1:24:27 You're like a different level of man and only at the top or whatever that is. Yeah. And listen, you might get stuff done. I'm not saying, not saying there aren't leaders that not go by themselves at the top. I guess what are you measuring? If you're measuring it at quality of life and overall health, it's a, you know what that is? That's like saying cigarettes. You know what? That's a great example. It loves cigarettes because cigarettes are very helpful with short term memory, right? They improve short term memory. They improve short term anxiety. It's a short term. So there are medicinal applications to cigarettes. They're also incredibly addictive. And so so you know, you want to say, listen, there's leaders at the top that were finance Bros and they got to the top and they're and they're, they're improving life because someone's got to be the ruthless sociopathic leader. OK.

1:25:30 But I think it's a much like a cigarette, you know, there's benefits to everything. Anyway, what do you think of? Do you ever listen to Modern Wisdom, the podcast with Chris Williamson? No, dude, I'm gonna send you one of his episodes. This dude is like every corporate frat bro catchword put into a podcast. Did you ever see this? He feels like a dude that went to like that was like a Delta Chi or like some crazy frat when he was in college. And then they got a job and like human resources and learned all the corporate doublespeak. And then just like the worst mix of everything. And it's funny because he's incredible guest.

1:26:11 He's just humor, humor in on for three hours. Yet the other day, Oh, he's dialed in, dude. He's dialed. He's got he's got I think 4 million subscribers on YouTube. He's a big deal, but he he judged. It drives me nuts, like every other word he speaks like the dynamic between the flow and the arrangements of the composition. And I'm like, you just sound like a douchebag, dude. Like, like, what are you saying? Just use the word dude. Just talk to me. Just really I don't understand. What's going on? That's all you got to say. Yeah, man. All right, dude. Hey, you ready to catch? You ready to wrap up? Think that was fun?

1:26:52 That was fun. I'm going to give some real time feedback for the audience to listen to your thoughts on the conversation. Real time feedback. Real time feedback. Tell me, what am I supposed to do? How do you feel about the last hour and a half of our conversation? Oh, I, I feel it was, it was good. And you're listening at this point and obviously you thought so too. That's a win. All right, dude, thanks for doing this catch on the flip.