#139: Sheekha Singh / Avoiding Burnout / Balancing Life / India -> Nebraska -> Canada

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together

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and we're Live Chica.
Welcome.

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I'm so happy to have you on.
I'm so excited for this

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conversation.
Thank you friend.

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It's a pleasure to be on your
show of.

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Course, so I came across your
profile on pod match and a

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couple of things immediately
jumped out at me.

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And one of them was your book,
your newest book about burning

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out ambition and kind of how to
maintain, you know, your

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maintain productivity despite
occasional burnout.

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And it struck me as particularly
important because I, I'm someone

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that in the last couple of
years, let's say, since I've

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just turned 30, So since I
turned 25, I had gotten married,

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had two kids, bought a house,
sold the house, started a

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podcast, started teaching and
started jujitsu, you know, and

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maintaining sales and doing
other work.

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And throughout the last couple
of years, there have been so

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many times where I just felt
like throwing my face in a

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pillow and screaming or, you
know, running away forever or

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doing and, and, and, and, and
I've been trying, I've been on a

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personal journey to try and
figure out how to maintain my

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productivity, be kind to myself
without beating myself up

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because I know that when I do
that, I end up burning out even

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faster.
And, and how to keep it up.

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And, you know, so I would love
to hear your thoughts and you

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look like you do so much on your
own.

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And so I'd love to hear about
you and how you managed to

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balance everything.
Of course.

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And thank you again for that
wonderful question.

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Congratulations first of all.
Thank you.

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I think.
You deserve a huge kudos for

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doing all of those things.
That to Josh when you turned 30,

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that's a lot.
So I have to tell you, it sounds

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like you're an overachiever and
that's exactly why I wrote the

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book.
It was, I know it was intended

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for overachievers, but like you
mentioned, for people like us

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who want to do multiple things
and give our 100% all the time,

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we have this expectation on our
shoulders and this kind of a

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goal that we set for ourselves,
which is not healthy.

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We think it is healthy because
we've done it in the past.

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And you know, you're like, oh,
yeah, I'm, I've been doing this

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from 25 and now I'm 30.
I can do everything.

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But the truth is it sometimes
ends up taking more out of you

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than you originally intended for
it to do.

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And by it I mean your dreams,
your goals, milestones, your

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whatever you want to call it,
like different name for the same

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thing.
So the problem here is I wanted

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to tackle it from first of all,
I didn't know that I was burning

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out because like you, I also end
up doing a lot of different

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things and I feel like I can
give it my best all the time.

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And so in doing that, I put
myself through so much that I

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did not even realize that I was
burning out.

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I didn't know that all the
symptoms that I had were

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pointing towards burnout and
that my body was saying please

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stop it, we've had enough.
And you?

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Describe some of the symptoms
that you a feeling because I'm

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curious about that.
Yes, definitely.

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Fatigue, constant irritation,
then snapping at your partner or

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your kids or your pets or
whatever.

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Getting annoyed by smallest
little thing and then putting

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yourself through so much and
saying it's just another

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project, I can do it, it's just
one more hour, I can do it, It's

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just one more thing and I can do
it.

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Sometimes it can also be
occasional dizziness, loss of

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appetite and also faking would
be one of the biggest symptoms.

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So if you find yourself that
you're faking a smile or you're

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trying to be someone because
you've been that in the past and

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you loved it, that would also be
one of the symptoms of burnout.

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And so I started doing this and
I realized that, wait, why am I

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constantly being annoyed and
irritated that my partner for no

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reason, you know, I'm doing
everything that I wanted to do.

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I'm having a podcast, I'm
writing a book, I'm doing this,

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I'm doing that, handling my 9:00
to 5:00 job.

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And then finally I was like, OK,
I think I have to do something

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about it.
So when I started doing my

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research, I realized that most
of it is related to what success

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means to you.
Nice.

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Yes, because for overachievers,
you know, you ask anybody

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anything, no matter what the
definition is, end of the day,

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they want to be successful.
And the reason why they're doing

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this is they're trying to check
off all those boxes.

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I was the same.
You were the same.

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But when I realized that the
definition of success is what

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kind of molds the entire being
of yourself and why you're doing

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certain things, that was when I
realized, OK, I'm taking a step

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back.
I don't have to do all of this.

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I'm going to be fine even if I
don't record one podcast episode

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today.
So that was the whole intention

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why I wrote the book and added a
lot of different tips after each

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chapter in the book, added a lot
of science back, art articles,

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research articles, and then
added the immigrant point of

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view because, and I can speak to
it later on, but that was the

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whole high level overview of
burnout and overachievers.

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I love it, I love it.
I love that.

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Sounds amazing.
Can I ask if you don't mind,

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because I actually had
experienced a lot of these same

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symptoms as as you're
describing, particularly the

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suppressed appetite was
something that happened to me.

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And I found myself.
And it's funny, my mom, who's a

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typical Jewish mom, you know,
sat me down and said, you're too

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skinny.
And he said, hey, you know, you

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lost, you lost a lot of weight.
You're stressing me out.

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And I'm like, I promise, I'm not
like avoiding.

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I'm not trying to avoid food.
I just find myself just, you

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know, I find myself blinking and
the whole day's gone.

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And I realized that I didn't do
anything, you know, and it

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wasn't even, it wasn't even
conscientious.

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But a lot of times it almost
feels, especially when we're

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trying to accomplish something,
like we're almost like in a

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Daydream where we sometimes
forget that like, hey, I should

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be, I haven't laughed in a
while, or I haven't, you know, I

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have been snappier.
How come I have been a little

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bit less patient?
What do you think we can do or

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people can do to even wake
themselves up to even be aware

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that they might be starting to
burn out?

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Thing, and this sounds very
stupid and very weird when I

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tell this to everyone but the
thing and So what I did was

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before I even I get to the
actual answer to that question,

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if I'm what I did was I actually
implemented all the tips that I

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mentioned in the book.
And so it's tried and tested.

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So one of the most important
thing that I can suggest to

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people who are undergoing all of
this is take 10 minutes, 10 to

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15 minutes and do nothing.
I'm telling you it makes a huge

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difference.
And I actually, because, you

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know, people like us are so
dependent on our calendars and

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our, you know, schedule that we
do everything according to it.

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OK, this time to this time
you're doing this, this to this.

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I even got anxious because, you
know, before this, I'm like, OK,

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I have to be on this from 12:00
PM.

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And then I have another thing.
So what I do, and it sounds very

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lame, but I actually schedule
time to do nothing on my

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calendar.
And when you say nothing, you

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mean scroll on your phone or
what do you mean nothing?

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Nothing.
Just sit.

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And do nothing.
I know it sounds very weird.

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No, it's amazing.
I love it.

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Yeah.
Yeah, because I live in Canada

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and winters, you really cannot
do anything.

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Quite literally, it was -32 this
weekend.

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But in the summers when I when
that reminder would pop up on my

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calendar saying, oh, it's time
to do nothing, I would just sit

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out in the front yard or the
backyard and just stare at the

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plants or the trees or people
walking by and I did nothing.

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And it's so difficult.
Like it sounds easy, but it's so

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damn difficult because 1st, if
you're an overachiever and you

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have 10 things on your list,
your mind is going to be OK.

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What am I going to do next?
Oh, you know what, I should

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reply to this e-mail or I should
go check this thing.

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Maybe I should just tell my
editor one, I got another idea.

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You know all those things.
So you will be forced to train

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your mind to actually think
nothing and do nothing.

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It's very difficult.
Sounds super easy, but very

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difficult.
So that is one of the things

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that you can start and 2nd
actually you're already on the

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right track because you, you
know that you're losing appetite

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and that you've lost that
appetite because you have made

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sure that you've scheduled your
entire day and filled it with

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things that you thought were
giving you joy.

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So my entire goal when I was
going through all of this was

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that you know what?
I can do another thing.

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Why?
Because I love doing it.

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I can add another interview on
the podcast.

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Why?
Because I love being a podcast

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host.
So things like that.

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But then when I realized, OK, my
fitness is all over, I'm not

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doing anything, or maybe I'm
overdoing it.

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I remember one day, again, it
was winter of last year, and I

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was editing on the laptop.
I'm like, you know what?

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I shouldn't be just editing and
sitting on a chair for so long.

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So I got my walking pad out and
I started walking and I didn't

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realize that I walked for at
least I think 10 to 12

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kilometers at a stretch without
even realizing it because I was

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constantly on the laptop.
And next day, obviously, I woke

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up to blisters on my food, on my
feet and I'm like, what is going

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on?
So the first step, you are

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actually halfway there because
you've realized it and you're

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aware that you're doing this
thing.

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So second is try to make sure
that you're cutting things off

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and setting boundaries even with
yourself and your goals.

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The biggest thing that anybody
can learn is to say no.

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Yeah, once you start, and for
people like us, it's very

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difficult because we know we can
do it, We've already done it,

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and we know we're going to kill
it.

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Like another episode.
Yes, let's do it.

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Another thing, yes, let's do it.
But just to protect your energy,

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you got to be selfish.
And the minute you start saying

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no, you are automatically going
to see that difference.

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Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's, that's, that's

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really great advice, especially
the just being because I think

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that I think our brains, I don't
believe have been meant to be so

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stimulated constantly on, you
know, it's such a regular basis

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with so many over, over
stimulate.

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I just like everything is just
coming at us all the time.

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Our phones, our screens that,
you know, traffic, emails,

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texts, like there's no, there's
no break until just putting time

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aside is, is so important.
The other thing I wanted to and

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something I noticed.
And now I'd love to hear your

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thoughts on this.
And then I want to also, I would

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love to hear about the
immigrant, the immigration

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process and about India a little
bit.

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I have a good friend from that I
post college that that was that

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that's from Mumbai that actually
lives there now and he's one of

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my favorite people in the entire
world.

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And, and I'd love to just hear a
little bit about your story.

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But one thing I did notice and
want to hear your thoughts was,

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you know, I'm sure everyone you
live and die by your calendar.

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You have like those things that
you have, you know, schedule

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that you want to do every day.
And especially because a lot of

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success comes from habit
building.

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And a lot of times when you
build habits equals routine.

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And one thing that I noticed was
sometimes if you try to keep

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everything dialed up to 10 all
the time, then everything comes

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crashing down.
But if you kind of play around

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with different things and you
say, OK, today, this week, the

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podcast could be a level 6
effort out of 10.

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But that means everything else
could stay at 8 or 9 out of 10.

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And then the next week, OK,
well, you know what?

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I'm pretty tired physically, so
maybe I won't work out as hard

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this week.
But everything else is able to

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be maintained at A at a higher
level.

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You learn to kind of how to
balance and be kind to yourself

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when you let one thing of all
those things you're dealing

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00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,840
with, you know, not be optimal
just for the sake of letting

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everything else continue.
Do you find that that something

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00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,240
that happens to you?
Exactly, yes, 100%.

226
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,120
And you're right.
Exactly right.

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00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,560
What you mentioned was
rescheduling your life.

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00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120
That's what I did after I
finished the book.

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00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,720
I did.
After, you know, I finished all

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00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,560
the research and I actually
implemented those.

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00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,840
I sat down and I thought to
myself, what would happen if I

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00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,240
don't take on another guest for
the podcast?

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00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,520
What would happen if I don't
release an episode this week?

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00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520
Nothing, nothing great's going
to happen.

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00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,160
The world's not going to end.
Nobody's going to stop.

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00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,080
Your analytics will still be
fine.

237
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,320
People might miss you if you
have a huge following.

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00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,560
I'm not Joe Rogan, but still,
you know, you'll be fine.

239
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,160
And there are people in the
world who are not doing all the

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00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,640
things that you're doing, and
they're still living an amazing

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00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,360
life.
So that's exactly what I did.

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00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,480
When you decide to take control,
I call that taking control of

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00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,200
your calendar.
I tell people all the time, I

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00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,120
used to be a productive
activity, you know, fanatic.

245
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,680
Like I was obsessed with all the
apps.

246
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,600
I was obsessed with using
different kinds of things my To

247
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,120
Do List everything.
But then when I started changing

248
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,480
my mindset and thinking about
things that way, that's when the

249
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,640
shift started.
Yeah, right.

250
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,760
Exactly.
Know what your body is trying to

251
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,840
tell you and be aware of how
you're acting with people who

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00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,200
are close to you.
And then adjust just all other

253
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,120
things and prioritize
accordingly because juggling too

254
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,160
many things literally, quite
literally drains all of your

255
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,680
energy because you're wearing a
different hat all the time.

256
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,480
Yeah.
Like if I have my 9:00 to 5:00

257
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,120
job, I'm my mind is totally
different.

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00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,000
But when I'm a podcast host, I
am acting in a different way.

259
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,920
And then I have to switch hats
and be a different person.

260
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,640
So yeah.
And people just say, oh, yeah,

261
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,200
you're staring at screens all
the time.

262
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,120
But even that drains your energy
because you're talking.

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00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,840
You want to be good.
You want to be presentable, and

264
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,280
you want to be the best.
And like you said, you know on

265
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,360
days that you're feeling low,
maybe cancel that interview or

266
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,440
cancel the meeting or don't work
out too much.

267
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,800
It's OK if you don't get your
10,000 steps that day.

268
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,680
You're still going to be fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

269
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,280
And I think it kind of goes back
and forth because there's

270
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,240
certain people that need to hear
this and then there's certain

271
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:18,640
people that need to hear the
opposite of this.

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00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,880
And, you know, and that, you
know, we need a little bit of

273
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,640
urgency in our in our day-to-day
life.

274
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,720
And I think that everything is
all about finding that perfect

275
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,800
balance and trying to figure
that out.

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00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,120
So if you're listening and you
know, you're using this as an

277
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,840
excuse to allow yourself to have
another day off when you don't

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00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,920
know that you necessarily
necessarily need one, then we're

279
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,280
not telling you quite to do
that.

280
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,080
But we're, you know, we're
talking about burnout over here.

281
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,720
And I think that it's, I think
it's really important.

282
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,600
So, so far we have almost like
an outline of steps that we've

283
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,400
already kind of made our way
through, which would be to take

284
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,080
some time on a regular basis to
do nothing.

285
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,760
And it kind of allow whatever is
going to bubble up in our head

286
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,760
to just emerge naturally.
And that becomes, and to learn

287
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,960
to recognize ourselves
essentially.

288
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,480
And then with that, you can
learn how to reprioritize your

289
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,880
schedule, your calendar, take
control over it and and then

290
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,960
identify things that are healthy
or unhealthy and how you can

291
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,800
figure out tackling it.
And I like, I love the example

292
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,600
of, of, of juggling too many
balls because there's the way I

293
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,600
like to think of it is if one of
them falls, you could at least

294
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,200
like, OK, one falls for now.
But if all of them crash at one

295
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,440
time, then it's a nightmare.
And then you have the risk of

296
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,640
all them breaking.
So and so it's going to happen

297
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,320
eventually.
You either learn to figure out

298
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,520
to let a ball slip every now and
then, especially if you're

299
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,600
balancing too much or, or you
risk just one big burnout and

300
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,440
that and that happens too.
Can you?

301
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,040
So let's use the second-half of
this to talk a little bit about

302
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,200
who you are.
If you want to tell me a little

303
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,960
bit where you can't, you know
where you came from and who you

304
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,280
are of.
Course, yeah, that was the whole

305
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,280
point of adding the immigrant
point of view for the second

306
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,680
book.
So I'll also tell you what the

307
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,160
first book was about because it
kind of ties to my story.

308
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:11,400
I grew up in India and I moved
to Omaha, NE in the US in 2014

309
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,480
for my master's degree.
I got a master's degree in

310
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,720
Management Information systems,
worked there for some time,

311
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,680
wanted to write a book. 2014 you
said?

312
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,599
I'm sorry.
Yes.

313
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,960
OK, gotcha.
Cool.

314
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,920
Worked in, worked in Omaha for
some time, and then I wanted to

315
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,520
write a book.
I was on the H1B visa, which is

316
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,600
the work visa in the US, and you
cannot have any other passive

317
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,240
income other than your 9:00 to
5:00.

318
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,960
So I decided I have to do
something about this urge to do

319
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,920
something.
So I'm applied for permanent

320
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:53,160
residency in Canada, got that,
moved here in 2020 and been here

321
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,440
since.
I'm yeah, five years.

322
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,160
It'll be 6 years this summer.
And then published my second

323
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,520
book in Jan of this year.
That was what we're talking

324
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:04,920
about.
Awesome trip.

325
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,440
So how so?
You said you came to the states

326
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,200
when for for for masters
programs?

327
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,360
So you must have been your early
20s.

328
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:12,760
Yes, that's.
Correct.

329
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,840
OK, gotcha.
And what was, I mean, I think

330
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,560
most people don't know what
Omaha, NE is like.

331
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,200
What was the what was the, what
was the culture shock like for

332
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,720
you coming from one place to the
next?

333
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,480
You know, the first thing is I
didn't realize how quiet it was

334
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:36,480
because I come from a southern
city in India, Hyderabad, and I

335
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,640
am used to being around people
and I am used to going to

336
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,200
places, hanging out with friends
all the time, celebrating

337
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,840
things.
And when I came to Omaha,

338
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,440
everyone was so different than
all my friends back home, even

339
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,320
though they were Indians.
Like I had the community.

340
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,240
Great people.
But still, you know, it's like,

341
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,480
oh, what are we doing for New
Year's Eve?

342
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,600
Nothing.
What are we doing for a

343
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,080
birthday?
Nothing.

344
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,120
And that was obviously very cold
because, you know, it's the

345
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:10,880
Midwest and winters are brutal.
We had no car.

346
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,800
We had nothing.
So I had to walk in winter to

347
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,400
the classes.
I did my internship to pay for

348
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,720
the rent and everything else.
So you would have your

349
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:27,440
internship from 8:00 AM to 5:00
PM and then your classes from

350
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,520
5:00 PM to 8:00 PM.
And then after that, you have to

351
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,960
be just grilling yourself trying
to get the assignments done,

352
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,560
trying to get your housework
done.

353
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,800
You know, you're sharing rooms,
apartments, you're trying to

354
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,200
cook, you're trying to save
money, all of that.

355
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,160
So it was just chaotic.
Wow, very chaotic.

356
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,920
Yeah.
So you it's says that you're

357
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,200
working a lot harder than the
average college college student,

358
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,080
unfortunately, but that's but
I'm sure that I'm sure that had

359
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,960
a huge impact on you.
What was the internship that you

360
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,080
did?
I was a Java engineer for a

361
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,360
company called Union Pacific.
Oh it was so much fun.

362
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,640
I had to wear formals even on
Fridays.

363
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,680
And and and and and and tell me
so.

364
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,280
So Canada makes makes sense,
especially because because if

365
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,360
you want to be able to do
anything extra like you said,

366
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,080
then then you got to be able to
do that.

367
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,640
Where'd you move to?
How do you like Canada?

368
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,360
It's so much fun, it's
beautiful.

369
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,760
First of all, it's amazing.
People are so friendly.

370
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,960
Again, Omaha, I made great
friends, great Co workers.

371
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,520
I'm still in touch with a lot of
them.

372
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,880
So many people have visited us
in the past years from Omaha, so

373
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,280
I love the connections that I
made there and I'm really glad I

374
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,200
got experienced that.
But people in Canada are less

375
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,640
non judgmental, I mean compared
to the Americans and they're

376
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,600
very friendly, very sweet, very
friendly.

377
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,320
We moved here during COVID and I
remember we were in the the

378
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,320
Toronto downtown.
I moved it to Ontario.

379
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,080
Now I live 3 hours from Toronto
in a very small.

380
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,960
Town Toronto.
I've noticed you you don't have

381
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:17,120
the second T in there.
So yeah, but I remember it was

382
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:21,920
2020, September, COVID, Canada
had very, very strict rules and

383
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,800
we were lost.
We had to go to this government

384
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,880
building and we just couldn't
find it.

385
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,920
And just a random due to smoking
on the side of the road is like,

386
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,560
Oh my God, are you guys lost?
Do you need help?

387
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,080
Can I help you with something?
And I'm like, I'm sure, OK,

388
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,120
because we're not used to this
when we were in Omaha.

389
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,480
Not so like, yes, people are
friendly where you go on a walk,

390
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,600
people smile at you, but not
this friendly.

391
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,800
And then we started to realize,
wow, Canadians are really very

392
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,120
sweet and kind and fun.
I'm one now, but.

393
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It makes sense.

394
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,680
It looks like you're kind of
people.

395
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,400
I think that, you know, I was
reading a great book.

396
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,520
I'm sure, I don't know, I'm sure
you've heard of it called Oh

397
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:15,760
man, it was about social media.
Jonathan hate the ancient

398
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,280
generation.
And one thing that he one thing

399
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,120
that he was talking about was
the fact that in America at this

400
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,840
point, for some, for whatever
reason, and there's probably a

401
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,160
ton of them, we all kind of look
at other adults and other

402
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,200
strangers, like potential
threats.

403
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,200
And like everyone that you don't
know is a danger or is stranger

404
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,800
danger is whatever.
And like, and the truth is that

405
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,320
I'm sure that it came probably
well and you know, with some

406
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,840
good intentions and probably
came from somewhere.

407
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,560
But what we inadvertently have
done was just make a very, very

408
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,920
suspicious Society of like
everyone else.

409
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,520
And I don't know how I would
feel, especially if I were you,

410
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,200
if I was just a woman walking
around lost trying to find a

411
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,040
building, if I was just by
myself trying to find a guy.

412
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,120
Because I don't think it's
funny.

413
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,360
I'm and I talk to my friends
about this all the time.

414
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:07,040
I'm 6430.
I'm a 30 year old man and I

415
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,480
don't, I don't imagine myself as
a six, 430 year old man.

416
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,160
I look at myself like I'm just
me.

417
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,080
I'm just, I'm just a dude, you
know, and someone walks up to me

418
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,920
and goes, Hey, you need help,
you know, do you need any

419
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,600
direction where to go?
I would run.

420
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,680
I wouldn't even know what to do.
It shows you the extent of, of

421
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,920
how suspicious we are.
It's it's a really, really

422
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,880
interesting thing you say that
that does, that culture doesn't

423
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,720
exist as much in Canada.
Yeah, no, everyone's like you

424
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,200
don't get the feeling that you
have to run away from something.

425
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,920
You're so welcome.
Even if you just go stop at a

426
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,440
bar or restaurant, there are
chances that at least five

427
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,040
people talk to you and you will
walk out of the bar making

428
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,200
friends.
That's good after, right?

429
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,920
Yeah.
It's the best feeling.

430
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,960
It's the best feeling.
Can you tell me about the

431
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,920
research project of writing your
books and what went into that?

432
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,760
It sounds like there's a lot of,
there's a lot of different

433
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,880
topics that you need to kind of
read about and learn about in

434
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,200
order to really speak about
this.

435
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,880
So how'd you go about that?
Correct.

436
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,480
So that's where the immigrant
POV comes in the picture.

437
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,320
When I started doing the
research, I wanted to figure out

438
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,920
why I'm doing this, and I found
the entire reason to be the

439
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,960
definition of success.
And I realized that for me at

440
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:28,880
least, my past or my immigrant
experience plays a huge role in

441
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,560
what I believe success to be or
success to look like.

442
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,880
You know, when you move
countries, when you're starting

443
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,720
from scratch, especially if
you're moving to a developed

444
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,200
country, there are expectations
on your shoulder no matter who

445
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,120
you are.
You can come from a rich family

446
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,880
or a poor family or a middle
class family, doesn't matter.

447
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,880
You have, you know, people tell
you and it starts from a very

448
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680
young age.
If you were a smart or a bright

449
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,520
kid and if you were into
multiple things, people often

450
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,280
tell you, oh, you know what?
You're going to be the next so

451
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,680
and so or you're going to be
someone great one day.

452
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,280
Your teachers tell you that oh,
you have a bright future.

453
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,920
You know you're going to be
someone amazing someday.

454
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,040
You're going to be a big person
and you somehow forget about it

455
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,720
as you're growing up.
But then after a certain point

456
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,560
in life, you're sitting down and
you realize, OK, what did they

457
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,360
mean when they would tell those
things, right?

458
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,080
And what did I even do?
They must have seen something in

459
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,360
me, and they must have thought
that I'm capable, but all I'm

460
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,680
doing right now is doing my job
and paying bills.

461
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,160
Is that what's called being
successful?

462
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,160
And so I thought that me
thinking that way drove a lot of

463
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,120
my projects and my actions.
So I kept wanting to prove to

464
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,880
all those people whoever said,
oh, you know what, You're going

465
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,120
to be someone someday.
Like, yes, I, I am going to be

466
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,480
that someone someday.
And I ended up doing this, this,

467
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,040
this and this because I thought,
OK, that's what's called being

468
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,680
successful.
And so when I started doing the

469
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,920
research, it's actually proven
that most of the burnout,

470
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,440
especially at workplaces, one,
obviously it depends on the

471
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,200
systems that you have for
yourself.

472
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,600
Second, it's on the definition
of success.

473
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:19,200
And that's heavily more like it
tends towards the negative side

474
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,160
of things for immigrants because
1st, that's culture shock.

475
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,280
Second, you're trying to improve
your lifestyle, you're trying to

476
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,680
be someone better.
And then there's the baggage

477
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,520
thing like your parents, your
responsibilities, you're like,

478
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,600
oh, now you're earning more.
You're, you have a good

479
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,360
lifestyle.
What about people back home?

480
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,840
What are you doing to help them?
And so now you're in this

481
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,640
constant cycle.
But then on the other hand,

482
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,080
you're like, OK, I am there now.
I have a big house, I have a

483
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,880
car.
I have, you know, family.

484
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,480
I have this, I have that.
But somehow it doesn't look like

485
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,120
I'm successful because
constantly as an immigrant,

486
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,800
you've been taught while you
were growing up a different

487
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,760
definition of success.
So what was the definition?

488
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,280
What was what's?
What's the definition you grew

489
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,840
up with?
So for me, what I grew up with

490
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,120
you, you need to be rich, you
need to be, you need to have a

491
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,840
good, you need to settle down.
And that's what's called.

492
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,120
Being successful.
Right.

493
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,320
So I thought, OK, I'm settled
down now.

494
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,600
I'm 33, I have a house, I have a
car.

495
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,640
Now what?
So, so all those things play a

496
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,000
huge role.
And when I started doing my

497
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,880
research, I realized that that
is in fact true.

498
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,880
How you perceive success drives
a lot of the things that you do

499
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,520
in your adult life and that
work, that is one of the most

500
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,280
important thing that causes
burnout.

501
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,640
And the second thing I wanted to
touch is systems.

502
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,760
Often times systems don't work
for us, they work against us,

503
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,440
especially for overviewers,
right?

504
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,680
Like I said, calendar, it's a
productivity tool.

505
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,720
You're scheduling everything.
But how does it make sense if

506
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,840
your calendar has failed from
9:00 AM to 9:00 PM?

507
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,720
That is not productive.
So things like that.

508
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,000
So you need to try.
I have a lot of research in the

509
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,160
book where I try to figure out
all these reasons, Backed it up

510
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,720
with articles, proven strategies
for burnout and what it means to

511
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,840
find success.
So someone, let's say there's an

512
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,360
immigrant watching or listening
to this episode and they're

513
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,640
like, yes, that's what I thought
success being successful was,

514
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,640
but what is success to me?
Then there's another article

515
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,400
that I've cited from one of the
books called Finding Your True

516
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,720
North, and that tells you what
it means to actually find what

517
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,280
you love and what a successful
life looks like to you.

518
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,000
So yeah, there's a lot of
things.

519
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,200
Go check it out and it's going
to be helpful.

520
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,640
I I'm sure, I'm sure.
Well, what, what how is your

521
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,040
sense of how is your sense of
success change?

522
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,520
What do you look at it as now?
No burnout.

523
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,880
That's what you look at.
You look at like success equals

524
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,360
balance or healthy.
Yes, balance.

525
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,240
And second thing is I want to be
present.

526
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,160
My friends make fun of me saying
that oh, we finally got an

527
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,640
appointment in your schedule and
then we finally got time to be.

528
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,920
So.
I just want to be present and I

529
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,800
don't want to be tied to my
calendar.

530
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,040
I want the freedom to be
financially free, but also to do

531
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,720
things that I actually love
without getting burned out.

532
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,760
Yeah, I grew up with, and I love
this.

533
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,840
I'm very lucky I have this.
I grew up with the mentality.

534
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,360
A lot of people go up with the
mentality of you have to achieve

535
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,480
XY and Z to be rich.
You need a million dollars, 5

536
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,240
million dollars, 10 million,
whatever it is, or you need XY

537
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,160
and Z car, XY and Z, whatever.
The way we grew up was, we just

538
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,520
want to do what we feel like
doing.

539
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,080
So like, you know, if this week
we just feel like getting pizza,

540
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,160
then like that's all like we
want, you know, and like, OK, so

541
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,720
how do you figure out a way to
make 20 bucks to make some

542
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,120
pizza, you know, to get some
pizza or, you know, like there

543
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,800
was no, it was no, it was always
very subjective.

544
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,680
There was no, it was always,
hey, what do we, what do we

545
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,200
want?
And sometimes in life, and you

546
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,560
know, we, everyone goes through
this curve where as you go

547
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280
through responsibilities and
take on more aspects of your

548
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,840
life, you got to make more
money.

549
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,400
And then, and then as your
expenses go down and you're, and

550
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,000
you become a little bit less
being this, you're less the sole

551
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,520
orbiter of money in your, in
your life, then the money goes

552
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,360
down.
And, and you should be OK with

553
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,200
that because at the end of the
day, like there you are

554
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,480
exchanging, like there is a,
there is a trade off happening.

555
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,760
And you are getting presumably,
hopefully time back.

556
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,440
You are getting flexibility.
You are getting the ability to

557
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,680
invest in yourself and your
passions and and finally to not

558
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,320
burn out.
I think it's wonderful.

559
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Where can people find you and
find your, your, your social

560
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,560
media or whatever it is before
we before we close out for

561
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,840
today?
Sure.

562
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,240
So all my books are on Amazon.
You can search for my name or

563
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,000
you can search for the title.
The second one is Unburnable

564
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,880
Ambition and Anything About Me.
All the writing stuff is on an

565
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,320
Instagram handle that says
Shikha Singh, under score writer

566
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,400
for all the writing stuff.
And the podcast is Rise and Tell

567
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200
with Shikha again, all the
information you can find on my

568
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,680
website, shikasingh.com.
Awesome.

569
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,720
You're gonna share it.
And this is so much fun.

570
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,600
Thanks so much for coming on
tonight.

571
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,840
Thank you so much, it was a
pleasure and a blast to be on

572
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,600
your show.
Yeah, So nice meeting you.

573
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,120
Best of luck with everything.
Talk soon.

574
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:25,200
Bye.