#148 John Perkins / Understanding Iranian War / Leaders v People / Competition NOT Enemies

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.

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John Perkins.
Welcome back to the show.

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It's such an honor to have you
on.

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It feels even a bigger on.
I've Gone the second time the

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first time because it means you
enjoyed enough to come back, I

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hope.
It's good to be with you again,

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Efrem.
I was just going through our, I

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was just listening back to our
last podcast and I have to say

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there was probably, I'd say 30
or 40% of the material that you

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were saying in real time that
got right past my head.

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And then listening back to it.
And I didn't realize the depth

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of what you were saying at the
time, including bringing up

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references about Venezuela and
Maduro, you know, months before

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that happened, and talking a
little bit about around Iran and

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America's relationship to, you
know, how, how, how they're

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resentful naturally towards
America and China.

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We're talking about all that
stuff months before all of it

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really hit the news cycle.
And I wasn't even necessarily

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even prepared or educated enough
to be aware that you were kind

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of talking about the present and
the future and the very near

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future.
So thank you for that in

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advance.
And I hope that we can kind of

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use some of your wisdom today to
help understand the world that

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we're in now.
Great welcome.

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Yeah.
So I, I would love to hear a

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little bit please, if you don't
mind actually about Iran.

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Because I remember reading, one
of the first things I read about

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in your book was that in the
Confessions of an Economic

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Hitman that you had spent some
time not only in Iran, but also

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intimately getting to know
various different leaders and

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different religious leaders
different.

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And I don't really quite
understand the culture as much

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as I probably should, but you
had a little bit more of a in

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depth understanding.
And so perhaps you can kind of

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enlighten us as to what's going
on from their perspective.

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Yeah, well, during the 1970s, I,
I spent a lot of time in Iran.

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I had an office there and, you
know, I, I, I never lived in

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Iran, but I would spend a week,
a month and I traveled all over

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the country.
You know, we had some, my

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company had a couple of big, big
projects there.

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So, yeah.
And I did get to know a lot of

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the leaders.
I was in the process of, of

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convincing them to hire our
companies to build big

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infrastructure projects.
You know, we, we were very, very

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interested in keeping the Shah
on our side.

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This was during the Shah's
regime.

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And of course, he'd been put
into power by the CIA and was

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kept there pretty much by the
CIA to a large degree.

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I mean, he had his own amazing,
awful, brutal Secret Service

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SAVAK.
But to a large degree, they were

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trained by the CIA and supported
by the CIA.

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And, you know, our goal was to
to to get the his oil and his

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money from his oil.
We didn't have to put him into

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debt like we did a lot of the
other countries.

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My normal tool in many of these
countries was to put them in

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deep debt.
You couldn't really put Iran

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into debt.
They had a lot of money.

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They had oil.
So the, the challenge was to get

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them to be dependent on the
United States and move further

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and further away from the Soviet
Union and communism and to

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convince them that they needed
our protection.

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And also to convince them to use
the money that they were making

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off of, of, of petroleum
petrodollars to hire our

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corporations to essentially
westernize Iran, you know, to

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make it more dependent on our
culture and our way of life and

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our economy.
Do you, do you think that they

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were paying attention while we
were aiding Afghanistan against

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the Soviets, that were they
paying attention and wondering

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kind of who, who is a better
country to work with, you know,

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as a, you know, while that's all
unraveling?

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Well, I think when you say they,
it's, that's a question.

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But certainly the Shah and all
of his immediate people, and you

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know, he had a lot of, a lot of
power amongst his people.

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They, they, they owed their very
existence as an administration

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to the CIA, to the United
States.

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We'd gone in and, and a CIA
agent named Kermit Roosevelt in

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in the early 1950s had taken out
Mossadegh, the the

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democratically elected Prime
Minister of Iran, who had stood

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up to British oil companies and
other oil companies.

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You know, we're going to
nationalize you if you don't pay

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your fair share of your profits
to our people.

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And the United States said in
this CIA agent and and a bunch

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of his buddies and they ended up
form formulating A coup that

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that overthrew Mossadegh and
replaced him with a Shah.

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So the Shah definitely, he had a
lot of loyalty to us.

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And yet he was a very clever
dealer.

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He he knew how to play us off
and periodically with threatened

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to turn more toward communism or
you know, so.

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So he, he kept us on.
He kept us on our toes.

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Yeah, he knew a buttons to push,
I guess, which is, which is

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something I think that by the
way, the as far as Middle

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Eastern countries are the
businessmen there go.

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They are, you know, I know from
first hand experience from

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dealing with people in Israel
and, you know, in the Arab shook

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and the Jewish shook or whatever
it is that they are remarkable

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students of human psychology
when it comes to business and

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negotiating.
And they really, really are, are

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so shrewd.
I I think it's awesome, but I

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could also see how it keeps us
on our toes.

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So the Shahs.
So so the Shah is put in by the

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CIA and the people are not too
happy about that.

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Right.
Which kind of leads to the

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premise of the movie Argo, even
though I heard I I did an

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interview with the gentleman
that was send me a bunch of

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documents about how that movie
was whitewashed by the CIA to

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make it look a lot better than
those than you know, than the

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actual conflict was.
But what, what's happening now?

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What, what, what, what is what
is going on now that that

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America and Israel are united in
a war against them?

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It's everyone has been preparing
for what feels like this war for

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40 years now almost.
Hey everyone real quick.

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If you're enjoying the show,
click subscribe and rate the

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show 5 stars helps a ton.
Thanks so much.

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And like it was almost a kind of
question as to almost when it

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was going to happen, if at all.
What's going on exactly?

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Well, I think up until now, up
until the Trump administration,

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a second term, the only country
that really wanted war with Iran

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was Israel, right?
And I think the United States

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was extremely resistant to that.
Trump has bowed to Netanyahu in

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so many ways.
He seems to idolize him.

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He, he just, you know, I think,
I think to a large degree what's

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going on now as a result of
Trump's infatuation with

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Netanyahu.
And because up until now, I

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think we've we've understood
that fighting a war with Iran

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is, is it's a no win situation
globally.

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What, what?
What do we get out?

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What?
What could we get out of it?

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Yeah, well, you're seeing that
now.

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The the only thing we can get
out of it is Trump feeling like

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he's, you know, super powerful,
but he's likely to walk away

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losing in many respects, But
he'll never admit that.

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So he he'll turn whatever
happens into a victory for him

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because that's, that's his
style, you know, doesn't it

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doesn't matter.
He could fall if, you know, I

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could just see if, if, if, if
Trump fell flat on his face on

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a, on the streets of New York,
he'd, he'd, he'd put his hands

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down and stand up and say, I own
New York, I've taken New York.

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So, so he's got this ability to,
to, to convince himself.

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I'm sure he's convinced in his
own way that, that, that, that

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he's right.
So I, I think this war really

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happened.
I think the attack happened

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because Trump was on a big high
after taking out Maduro in

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Venezuela and he said, well, if
I can do it there like that, I

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can do it in Iran.
We'll just go in, we'll take out

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the leadership and the people of
Iran will rebel against, against

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the supreme leader.
Of course they didn't.

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And, and I'm surprised.
I'm, I'm sure the CIA and, and,

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and a lot of the information he
was getting told was telling him

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that very thing, but he didn't,
he didn't believe it.

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He just, he just, he's on this
high.

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You know, he's, you said this
huge what he saw as a success in

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Venezuela.
I don't see it as a success.

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No, no, not at all.
Then we'd get into that in a

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minute.
But you know, I think that it

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was so predictable.
There's a huge military base on

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the Strait of Hormuz in Bandar
Abbas.

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I helped build that base.
My company was one of the one of

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the engineering firms that that
built that base as a as a big

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military base for Iran, But with
the idea that U.S. troops would

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be stationed there, there would
be our military base to a large

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degree and we would be able to
shut down the Straits of Hormuz.

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If one of the other Arab
countries or oil rich countries

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caused problems for us, if OPEC
again caused problems for us as

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it had in the early 70s with the
oil embargo, we could shut down

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the Straits of Hormuz.
Well, it's exactly, it's exactly

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what's happening.
So unintended consequences.

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But I spent a lot of time, you
know, I spent time in, in, in,

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in Vanderbas, which was I think
it's the hottest place I've ever

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been in my life.
Not temperature wise because

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Saudi Arabia was hotter, but
Saudi Arabia is dry.

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Bandra Abbas was, was very humid
and humid, humid heat.

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You feel a lot more than dry
heat.

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So it was, you know, it was a
little small fishing village

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when I first arrived there.
And you know, we, we built it

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into a, a, a, a, a major
military base.

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And today it's the, it's, it's
pretty much the head of

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operations for closing down the,
the Strait of Hormuz.

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It's not alone.
And there's a lot of things

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going on in Iran, but that's
that's an important part of it,

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which is very ironic.
That is ironic when it was built

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for it's hysterical actually.
It was built.

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It was built for, it was built
for, for American, for American

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troops to be stationed there
originally when did and and it's

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being run by the Iranians now.
Is that was?

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Is that what happened?
Oh, yeah, that yeah, it's, it's,

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yeah, it's, it's, you know,
it's, it's the key factor in the

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Iran closing down the Strait of
Hormuz.

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When do we give?
Up When do we pull our soldiers

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out of there?
Well, well, well, I don't, you

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know, it was, it was more than
putting a lot of soldiers boots

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on the ground there.
It was that we were supporting

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the the the Iranian military.
I see.

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Putting equipment, equipment and
missiles and so on, but prepared

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if we would have needed to, to,
to go in and put boots on the

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ground.
But you know, we never really

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expected we would need to
because Shah was our friend.

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So if as long as we provided the
equipment, the knowledge, if

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OPEC came against us again and
we'd, we'd ask Iran to be our

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ally against, against OPEC and
enclosed and closed out or

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threatened to close down the
straits.

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Usually a threat was all that
would be needed.

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But the force of the the the the
equipment, the technology was

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all there, very sophisticated
technology that would that would

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enable that to happen.
Do you?

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Yeah.
Oh man, this OK?

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I, I would really love, I don't
know what, how could, how could

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this end well?
What's a positive outcome?

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And the reason why I'm asking
this is because listening to our

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last podcast again, the first
half an hour was a little scary

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and then the second-half an hour
gave a lot of hope.

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And you seem to have not someone
that just points out problems,

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but could potentially offer
solutions.

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What would be the best case
scenario at the end of the day

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over here for everyone?
Well, I, I, I don't know, it's,

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it's hard to imagine now.
I think it's truly in Trump's

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hands as to what the next step
is.

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And, and, and I don't know where
he's going to go with this.

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He, he just, you know, 1 moment
he says that he's taken out all

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the nuclear weapons back in
last, last year.

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And the next moment, he says
he's sending in forces to take

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out the nuclear weapons that he
already took out.

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00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,560
Or it was the protesters which
apparently were trying to help.

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00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,360
Or it was, you know, or it was
oil.

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00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,600
And we don't.
We don't really know what it was

225
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,320
about.
Well, I think it was about Trump

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00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,640
like this before, you know, he's
on this high after Venezuela.

227
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:22,960
And so what's the best result it
you know, it's it depends on how

228
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,240
you look at it.
If you were looking at it from

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00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,320
the Israeli side or, or probably
from Trump's side, you'd say

230
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,480
that you're going to replace the
current government with a

231
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,760
government that really favors
you.

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00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,960
If you were looking at it from
the side of many of the Iranian

233
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,720
people, you would say you, you
want to have open elections and

234
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,360
you want to elect someone who's,
who's a, who's an Iranian

235
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,840
nationalist, who, who, who wants
to take care of Iran and, and is

236
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,400
going to, you know, you know,
going to going to continue to be

237
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,560
good friends with China as well
as the United States.

238
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,680
Yeah.
So whose, whose side are we

239
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,920
looking at?
But in in any of those cases,

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00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,960
it's going to be very, very
difficult to make any of that

241
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,480
happen because, you know, Iran
is on top of the fact that it's

242
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,400
run by a, you know, well, we
don't know who's running it

243
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,120
right now, but what?
We do is crazy.

244
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,360
Well, we do know that there's a
real system in place.

245
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,480
It isn't dependent on a, on a
supreme leader.

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00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,200
You can take him out and he'll
be replaced by somebody else.

247
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,320
They, they really have a system
and, and the Iranians throughout

248
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,840
history have been extremely
clever, extremely smart and

249
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,160
extremely strategic throughout
history.

250
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,840
It doesn't matter whether you
had a, you had a king, a Shah or

251
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,480
for a short period of time of
democratically elected

252
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,840
president.
They are a very strategic

253
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,720
people.
They're very proud people that

254
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,440
have a long, long history of the
amazing culture and of, you

255
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,880
know, Alexander the Great, who
at one point dominated much of

256
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,920
the world.
He wasn't actually Iranian, but

257
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,080
he operated out of Iran to live
degree.

258
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,440
So how do you bring something
like that to an end?

259
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,840
It's it's very, very difficult
to see where this is going to

260
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,040
go.
I think we can only hope that

261
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,120
very quickly Trump will give in
and, and whatever way he needs

262
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:22,440
to and at the same time,
hopefully get some concessions

263
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,120
for a great more democratic
approach there and a less brutal

264
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,120
approach.
Because yes, the killing of

265
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,000
these protesters is terrible.
And the government, you know, I,

266
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,400
I, I don't nobody, I don't shed
any tears.

267
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,160
I don't think anybody sheds any
tears for the loss of the, of

268
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,920
the supreme leader that was
killed in the first attack.

269
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,120
No, he's, it was, he was a
brutal man.

270
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,840
And the, you know, the country
doesn't doesn't need that,

271
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,760
doesn't want that the, the, the,
the massacre of protesters was

272
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,240
outrageous and horrible.
So how do we get a concession

273
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,680
that nothing like that is ever
going to happen again?

274
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,840
And do you know, and we may
insist that that we go back to

275
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,800
something like the old Iran and
US nuclear treaty, is that Trump

276
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,800
broke back during his first term
and that treaty was working very

277
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,840
well.
It was monitored by

278
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,040
International Atomic Energy
Agency.

279
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,000
It seemed to be working very
well.

280
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,680
I don't know why that ended, but
I thought that.

281
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,480
I'm sorry, I also heard that the
Ayatollah had a religious degree

282
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,960
of fatwa against developing a
nuclear weapon.

283
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,440
Is that true?
I, I don't know whether that's

284
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,720
true or not, but I do believe
that they that, that, that Iran

285
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,240
has clearly stated in the past
that that is not their desire.

286
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:42,600
And who knows, But there was a
treaty and it was it was

287
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,520
supervised by an international
force who, who concluded that

288
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,640
Iran was not developing a
nuclear weapon program, that it

289
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,120
was developing a domestic
nuclear energy program, which is

290
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,280
quite acceptable.
And we do the same thing.

291
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,720
Many countries are doing that,
whether you like nuclear or not.

292
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,520
It's it's it's a very different
matter.

293
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,440
So, you know, you having
destroyed that treaty in his

294
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,760
first term, now it looks like
that's what Trump wants to do.

295
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,319
That would be the best thing we
can achieve now is to return to

296
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,280
something like that kind of a
treaty that also offers

297
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,400
protection to the Iranian people
against the kind of brutality

298
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,760
that we've seen in the in recent
years.

299
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,839
Yeah, Yeah.
As long as we're willing, as

300
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,400
long as we're actually going to
hold up our end of that promise,

301
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:30,880
right.
And.

302
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,600
Well, that's that's the other
factor.

303
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,960
How can Iran trust?
I how I wouldn't.

304
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,480
No, it's very hard for the
leader of any country to trust

305
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,120
the United States today because
we, we waver, we change our

306
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,360
policies, we don't honor
agreements that we make.

307
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:50,480
So that's, that's a very, that's
another very, very powerful

308
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,040
factor in all of this.
How How do how do you move

309
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,280
forward when you have a
president that nobody trusts or

310
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,040
believes?
Yeah, yeah.

311
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,480
I am going to hopefully try to
put a hopeful twist on this, I

312
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,600
think.
But the first thing I want to

313
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,560
ask is so I, I, I imagine the
speculation has been, I've been

314
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,240
listening, I've been hearing
online is that Iran's going to

315
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,720
need or Iran is, is now even
more determined to get a nuke

316
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,120
just to be left alone.
Similar to North Korea in the

317
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,080
sense that, hey, we have this,
it's we basically going to use

318
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,120
it as deterrence to, you know,
stop bullying us.

319
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,240
Stop pushing us around.
Let us do our own thing.

320
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,200
Israel's not going to stand, of
course, for, you know, if that

321
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,840
were to happen, I don't know how
much of A say or choice they'd

322
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,400
have on it depending on, you
know, who's leading and what's

323
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,600
what, what exactly is going on
in the world at that point.

324
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,200
But IA lot of a lot of other
countries are looking around and

325
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,120
seeing this and saying, hey, we
going to, we need to develop our

326
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:48,400
own nuclear programs too,
including Poland, right?

327
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,240
Just just to be able to just say
leave us alone.

328
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,440
And and this is actually, you
know, Israel is so determined to

329
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,120
to stop Iran from having a nuke
that they're going to get the

330
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,080
rest of the world to be
interested in developing,

331
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:02,720
developing them just to be left
alone.

332
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,760
That's a possible outcome.
And you do have to wonder what,

333
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,160
what, what?
Why did the United States if if

334
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,400
the justification was to get
nukes out of Iran, and why not

335
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,560
do it in North Korea?
Why not do it in Pakistan?

336
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,120
You know who?
Who?

337
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:21,760
Do they already have it?
Yeah, but destroy it.

338
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,880
That's true.
They haven't.

339
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:27,640
But you know, you, you, you just
got to ask yourself like where,

340
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,000
where does all of this end?
And oh, well, we don't trust the

341
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,280
Iranian leadership.
They're they're they're they're

342
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,400
they're not trustable.
Well, is our own leadership

343
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,480
trustable?
And we have the most nuclear

344
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:40,960
weapons.
Do you really, do you really

345
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,240
trust that if if you're another
country?

346
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,040
So.
So these are, you know,

347
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,840
difficult times and difficult
questions.

348
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,480
And, and it's it's unfortunate
that we do have nuclear weapons,

349
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,520
but we do have them.
And as you say, the motivation

350
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,160
is there for everybody to
develop them at this point just

351
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,960
to be to, to, to convince
everybody else to keep their

352
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,160
hands off off of off of you.
Yeah, yeah.

353
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:13,440
And I think that this is I think
that we're almost at some kind

354
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,280
of climax point where the world
is going to determine whether or

355
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,840
not we're going to ultimately
become what you call a life

356
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,880
economy or not.
Right now is what it feels like

357
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,320
to me at least, you know, when
I'm watching this current events

358
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,000
and you're watching the, the,
the, the, the, the line between

359
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,800
the leadership and the people
becoming so, so clear.

360
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,040
It's, it's, it's so blatant and
it's so in, in everyone's faces.

361
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,920
You know, I mean, Trump runs on,
on, on not going to war on

362
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,760
economy, on, on, on Epstein
files on, on everything that,

363
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,720
you know, that he's talking
about, that he, that he's gone

364
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600
back on.
And 350 million of the loudest

365
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,440
and most obnoxious people on the
planet sometimes are saying,

366
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,960
Hey, we're not happy, you know,
about this.

367
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,520
And the same thing is happening
in Israel and the same thing is

368
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,440
happening around the world.
And it almost feel, and you

369
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,120
know, in the way that I've heard
it described was instead of it

370
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,720
being left and right on the same
plane, it's up, it's top and

371
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:15,280
bottom, it's up and down.
And the death economy, as in

372
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,720
short term gains at pretty much
all other expense or all other

373
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:25,440
cost is we don't like that it's
getting rejected.

374
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,280
And, and you almost feel like
there's like a human, like a for

375
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,000
humanity, There's a, there's a
anti, there's A, and there's a

376
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,640
resistance, like a viral type of
resistance to this that I feel

377
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,280
like is starting to take place.
Well, that could be the good

378
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,320
news.
Yeah.

379
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,520
Yeah, you know, I I have a new
book coming out.

380
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:50,120
It's it's, you can buy it
pre-order now online or anywhere

381
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,200
book called the Art of the
Steel, Trump and the economic

382
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000
Hitman Presidency.
And it's not about Trump.

383
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,040
I love he's certainly in it a
lot, but it is about a new form

384
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,680
of presidency that he has
brought into power.

385
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,720
And I and I think it's going to
always going to impact the US

386
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,520
presidency from here on out.
I'm not sure how that will go,

387
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,200
but what we've seen is a
watershed moment through so

388
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,280
throughout my lifetime, since
the end of World War 2, every

389
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,400
U.S.
President has used economic

390
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,000
hitman, but this is the first
president to actually be one and

391
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,600
the Jack and the Jackal at the
same time.

392
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,960
And you know, it's and and to be
totally overt about it.

393
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,040
So things that were kept in in
secret before that were

394
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,840
clandestine are now out in the
open and including including

395
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,320
horrendous corruption.
I mean, this president is making

396
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,600
a fortune off off his position,
his.

397
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,840
Family, everything crazy?
Yeah.

398
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,560
Yeah.
And, and, you know, most

399
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,800
presidents have ended up doing
well as a result of being

400
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,440
president.
And it doesn't necessarily

401
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,200
necessarily involve corruption.
It can involve a lot of book

402
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,640
sales and speaking engagements
and which is a little bit.

403
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,920
Diluted, which is diluted
version of that I guess.

404
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,160
Yeah.
But but now we have the

405
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,320
situation and recently there's
been these accusations that he's

406
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,360
involved in insider trading, you
know, when he the tremendous

407
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,360
amounts of of stock are are
bought and sold to, you know, a

408
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,880
few minutes before he makes a
major announcement.

409
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,480
Anyway, whatever, it's out in
the open and in writing this

410
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,760
book, it's been it's been, you
know, I've gone into a lot of

411
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,600
detail.
It's so it's so easy to forget

412
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:38,200
what he did in his first term or
even what he did in 2025.

413
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,200
You know, it's it's because
things are happening so fast and

414
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,440
as they go through and you look
at all the things that have

415
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,400
happened.
I mean, one thing you got to say

416
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,360
about Trump is, is he's done a
lot.

417
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,960
Of course, he all he had to do
was make speeches and and sign

418
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,000
papers because the whole plan
was already outlined for him in

419
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,160
Project 2025.
So he didn't really have to

420
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,960
think about it.
He just could shoot from the hip

421
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,640
and as he does.
But yes, here we are.

422
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,320
We're being hit by a 2 by 4 all
over the world by this rise of

423
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:15,440
right wing autocratic dictators,
whether it's China or or or or

424
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,360
or or or Israel or Russia or the
United States.

425
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,640
All the main powers.
All the main powers.

426
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,920
Yeah, yeah.
And, and, and as you say,

427
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,840
hopefully people are waking up
to this and I think they, I

428
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,320
think they are that's, that's
like you.

429
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,640
I have a lot of hope that this
is a catalyst that we, we need.

430
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,000
So I hope that the outcome of
this will be that Trump is, is

431
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,840
making Americans look at the
world or look at ourselves the

432
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,520
way the world has looked at us
for some time.

433
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,760
The way the people I've worked
with in Latin America, the

434
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,480
people of Africa and many other
parts of the world who have seen

435
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,400
the United States before, not as
a promoter of democracy, but as

436
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,200
a as a defender of any regime
that happens to be in power that

437
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,600
plays along with the big
international corporations and

438
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,880
American policy.
And hopefully we're we're going

439
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,880
to see ourselves in that same
light and do something about it

440
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,560
here in the United States and
that will provide a model for

441
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,720
other countries to use.
Israel certainly needs something

442
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,240
similar.
So Russia is going through

443
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,320
through very, very similar types
of situations where one man is

444
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:37,000
in so much control and so
dogmatic and also at least was

445
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,000
part of the population and
extremely charismatic that he's

446
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,720
able to get away with whatever
he wants, basically.

447
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:50,480
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I, I
feel personally that that Bebe

448
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,800
and the entire lobby that is
currently in America basically

449
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,480
just put all the political and
financial power behind making

450
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,680
the war happen right now.
Because they know that once

451
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,560
Trump loses the midterms and
America's relationship with

452
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,600
Israel has deteriorated to the
point that it's going to take a

453
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,040
couple of generations to fix
that.

454
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,520
BB knows that if this didn't
happen this minute, I don't even

455
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,720
care whether there's a game plan
or not, it's not going to happen

456
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720
for another 10 years.
And I'm not letting them.

457
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,720
I'm not going down, you know, in
history for my life as the the

458
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,960
longest any Prime Minister of
Israel as not that guy, you

459
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,800
know, and I'm and and, and, and
so I think that he just said,

460
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,320
you know, whatever we have left
pedal to the metal, burn the

461
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,640
rest of the gas out and, and,
and if we can do it, great.

462
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,320
And if not, then like at least
at least he tried and I and

463
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,720
that's what that's what I think
happened.

464
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,200
I because I because Trump has
been almost allergic or

465
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,880
resistant to the idea of saying
that.

466
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,000
And you and like, you know, like
you said, he probably was riding

467
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,640
a high from Venezuela, but his
base was very, very loud about

468
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,040
not wanting this war.
And, and it's, it's interesting

469
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,640
he know he has to know unless he
unless it's his whole staff, the

470
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,520
significance of, for example,
the podcast world that the top

471
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,560
five podcasts that get, you
know, dozens of millions of

472
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,480
views, you know, on a on a daily
or regular basis, the top five

473
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,720
are all vehemently against it.
And they're the ones that were

474
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,720
supporting him and helped get
him, you know, elected to begin

475
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,120
with.
And so to be so I, I have a hard

476
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:23,680
time believing that he's so off
the pulse and so blindsided.

477
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,360
It's possible that he is, but I
think that there was just an

478
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,840
enormous push that was just
systematic that kind of just

479
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,760
forced this to happen now.
Yeah, yeah.

480
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,240
No, I think you're, you're
right.

481
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,200
I think that Netanyahu had, you
know, like you said, he saw this

482
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,280
as as the as the window being
finally opening and this is an

483
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,440
opportunity and we'll see what
happens.

484
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,200
But yeah, I agree with you.
So can you explain why you don't

485
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,040
think Venezuela was successful?
Because everyone kind of talks

486
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,000
about it like it is.
And I was, you know, I mean, I

487
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,040
was originally a little hesitant
about it.

488
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,720
And then and then I felt like,
hey, well, no Americans got

489
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,320
killed as far as I know in, in
that in that mission.

490
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,600
And there weren't a lot of
damage to American, you know,

491
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,000
infrastructure or anything like
that.

492
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,760
And it seems like it was pretty
quick and clean.

493
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,560
Why do you think it wasn't as
successful as Trump would like

494
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,280
or his administration would like
to make it seem?

495
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,160
Well, you can't say that no
Venezuelans were killed.

496
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,880
Well, you can't say that.
Yeah, I mean, really, you,

497
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,360
you're only worried about the
Americans going in.

498
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,320
You know, that's, that's I, I
think it's, I'm glad no

499
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,520
Americans were killed, but I'm
sorry about the, the many, the

500
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,280
dozens of Venezuelans were
killed, not just Maduro.

501
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,200
I'm not sad about Maduro going
out at all.

502
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,720
I he was a terrible leader and
it's good to get rid of him.

503
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,760
But we didn't get rid of his
administration.

504
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,720
You know, his vice president is
running the country now.

505
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,920
We didn't bring in the
opposition people who won.

506
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,400
One of them won a Nobel Prize.
Really.

507
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,880
Yeah.
For what?

508
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,960
In what rather is he a
scientist?

509
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,880
Businessman.
Peace.

510
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,480
The Peace Prize was was was was
run by the woman.

511
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,840
I can't.
Figure oh, right, right, right,

512
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,000
right.
The one that wanted that Trump

513
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,400
wanted her wanted wanted a Peace
Prize for her, right?

514
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,840
Yeah, she, she gave him the
Peace Prize.

515
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,040
And yeah, she's the opposition
leader.

516
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,720
Why isn't she, Why isn't she out
there now and in power?

517
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,200
And so I don't know what we
accomplished other than killing,

518
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,560
other than imprisoning a former,
the president who was the

519
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,840
president and his wife.
So they're, they're imprisoned

520
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,280
in the United States now, but
what else has happened?

521
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,280
And, you know, are we going to
get oil from that country?

522
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,800
Well, the, the oil companies,
the CEO of Exxon said, I'm not

523
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,400
going in there.
It's too unstable.

524
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,720
I don't know what's going to
happen next.

525
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,480
And we don't have the oil
infrastructure.

526
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,360
So, so, you know, and plus we
don't need the oil.

527
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680
We with we're the biggest oil
producer in the world.

528
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,240
We're exporting oil, plus we
really ought to be getting off

529
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,680
fossil fuels all together.
So what have we accomplished in

530
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,640
Venezuela other than to scare
the hell out of every other

531
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,400
country in Latin America, other
than to piss them off and scare

532
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,720
the hell out?
I mean, I just came back from

533
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:11,720
Ecuador a couple of months ago
and it no again, like everybody

534
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,280
in Latin America that I know is
happy that Maduro's gone, but

535
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,400
they're not happy about the way
it happened.

536
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,800
It was invasion, a large
military force within and took

537
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,360
out one man and his wife and
killed a lot of innocent

538
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,440
civilians in the process.
So why?

539
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,480
What's the point?
What do we accomplish?

540
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,840
There's no backup plan.
There's no follow through plan.

541
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,400
It was it was a show of force.
Plus the American taxpayers have

542
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,040
paid a horrible price for that.
And the fact that this huge Navy

543
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,800
fleet is still right off there
in the Caribbean, and that

544
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,600
scares the hell out of all of
Central America, Colombia, all

545
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,600
the countries that border the
Caribbean.

546
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,040
Plus, you know, that fleet can
reach Argentina and Peru and

547
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,520
Ecuador and Brazil also.
So it's, to me, it's a debacle.

548
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Yeah.
And it and and it is making a

549
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,120
lot of enemies for us.
It's it feels like Trump is is

550
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,360
doing to geopolitics like what
he did to the American political

551
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,400
system, which is basically just
say, listen, I know we have all

552
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,120
these precedents, but I'm just
going to do what I feel like

553
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,560
right now and I'm going to get
this done with.

554
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,960
And, you know, a lot of people
were taken with that kind of

555
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,600
erasiveness and rawness.
And I think that, you know, he's

556
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,440
trying to, and I think that if,
if, you know, if it works in one

557
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,280
sense, he's probably going to
try to replicate that in the

558
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,640
other sense.
But I, I mean, I, I keep on

559
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,440
calling it a kidnapping and
everyone's like, it's not a

560
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,600
kidnapping.
There's an operation.

561
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,400
I'm like, I don't know, it feels
like a kidnapping to me.

562
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,800
I mean like, like it was
illegal.

563
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,440
I'm like, by whose standards,
dude?

564
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,400
And it's another country.
I wait, what are you talking

565
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,720
about?
But I, I have heard and what

566
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,440
some of the defense would be
that, and I'm sure you have a

567
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,320
response to this, but that it's
really to cut off potential

568
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,560
energy from China.
And that's why it's Venezuela

569
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,400
and Iran, because China buys an
enormous amount of oil and, and

570
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,560
relies on them for energy.
And by threatening to kind of

571
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,480
cut off their energy, this would
potentially hold back them

572
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,840
trying to take Taiwan and, and,
and be a little bit less secure

573
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,480
in the economic game.
But I've also heard that

574
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,360
Venezuela's oil apparently is
requires an enormous amount of

575
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,240
refining and, and I don't know
that they do that there.

576
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,480
And so I don't know how much is
actually making a difference at

577
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,560
this point.
Well, what one thing it's

578
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,120
definitely doing is, is, is
forcing China to become much

579
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,800
more technologically advanced
in, in alternative energy.

580
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,360
You know, at the moment China is
also building coal plants, but

581
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,160
they, they are, they are the
number one producer of solar and

582
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600
wind machines.
And, and, and, and developing

583
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,480
that kind of power and, and the,
these threats against oil for

584
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,480
them is going to push them more
and more into taking a much

585
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,160
greater leadership role in, in
alternative energy.

586
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,840
I think probably Xi Jinping is,
is, is very happy with what

587
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,240
Trump is doing.
You know, and yes, it may, it

588
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,000
may create some short term
problems in terms of oil supply.

589
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,920
And certainly the Straits of
Hormuz have done that a lot of

590
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:19,000
that, you know, but but but in
fact, you know, China is is

591
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,680
extremely resilient and smart
and you know, they're going to

592
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,920
work a lot harder on developing
alternatives.

593
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,760
So they will not be dependent on
the outside world for their

594
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,000
energy sources.
This is going to really drive

595
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,480
them forward with with that.
I think all of what's going on

596
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,560
in the world right now is taking
the United States down and

597
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,320
bringing and bringing China up.
I think China's being helped by

598
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560
all of these situations in the
long run, In the short run, it

599
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,280
puts China in an awkward
position.

600
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,000
It creates some internal
problems as well as external

601
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,720
problems.
But you know, China always

602
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,920
thinks in the long term, unlike
the United States, China is a

603
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,240
very, very long term oriented.
You know, they develop five year

604
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,160
plans and 25 year plans and,
and, and they mean, and that

605
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,600
means a lot to them.
They're they're a very long,

606
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,840
Longview oriented
administrations, unlike the

607
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:15,920
United States.
Yeah, yeah, I I agree.

608
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,679
I think, and I guess the only
thing that people that Americans

609
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,199
would hope for is that it puts
them in more than just an

610
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,880
uncomfortable position at the
present moment.

611
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,000
It puts them in a perilous
position that doesn't allow them

612
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,600
to get to that 25 or 50 year
plan or whatever it is.

613
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,719
But I don't know if that's
something that I would bet on or

614
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,880
I don't know if I'd bet on China
not, you know, accomplishing

615
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,159
their long term goals.
I don't know.

616
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,000
They they seem pretty proficient
to me.

617
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,560
Well, I think we, we want China
to accomplish its long term

618
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,600
goals too.
We want to stable China.

619
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,320
And there's every reason to want
to have a, a healthy competition

620
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,679
with China, but not see them as
an enemy.

621
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,639
They're not an enemy.
You know, they're, they're,

622
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,920
they're people.
I, I, I taught at a Business

623
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:03,720
School there in Shanghai and I
was deeply, deeply impressed by

624
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,360
the Chinese students and their
desire to create a better world

625
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,920
for their children and
grandchildren.

626
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,560
You know, they told me like
we've lived through horrible

627
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,960
pollution, you and the United
States don't know what pollution

628
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,840
is compared to us.
We through horrible pollution

629
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,160
and and very difficult social
situations too.

630
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,960
And we created a miracle
economically, but we at a, at a

631
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,400
huge price environmentally and
socially.

632
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,080
But we, the future generation,
we don't want our kids to grow

633
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,080
up like that.
We're going to turn this around.

634
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,280
We're going to create an
environmental and social

635
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,720
miracle.
And I think they're working on

636
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,480
it.
I, I think that's, I think

637
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,400
that's a real sincere desire on
the part of of many who are

638
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,760
coming up in the next generation
in China.

639
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,840
And it would behoove the United
States to see China as a as a

640
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,200
very serious competitor, yes,
but not as an enemy has never

641
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,720
been colonialistic.
It, it, it, it doesn't send

642
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:05,600
armies out around the world.
It, it hasn't been thousands,

643
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,000
hundreds of thousands of years.
And, you know, it may threaten

644
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Taiwan, but it sees Taiwan as
part of China, just like, you

645
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,440
know, we we took over Texas and
that kind of thing.

646
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:21,160
We we have Puerto Rico and the
Virgin Islands and so on.

647
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,240
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's the same sort of

648
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:28,160
thing.
So, but, but China has, doesn't

649
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,480
have, have have military bases
in Latin America or, or, or

650
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,480
Africa, conceivably has two in
Africa, but they're not really

651
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,000
military bases.
They're more resupply bases.

652
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,720
It just doesn't.
And while the United States has

653
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:48,320
military presence in well over
100 countries, the world doesn't

654
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,520
like that.
Nobody likes to be occupied by a

655
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,840
foreign force.
And except maybe the maybe the

656
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,800
dictatorial leaders that they're
happy to have the but people

657
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,080
don't.
We didn't when the British were

658
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,040
here in the United States
occupying Boston.

659
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,960
So, you know, I would.
This is really playing into

660
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,080
China's hands.
And China has always expanded

661
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,960
its its influence through trade
and it's done that extremely,

662
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,280
extremely effectively.
I don't know the last time we

663
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,320
were on this program that.
Yeah, it was.

664
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,160
Yeah, you showed me and I did an
awesome episode follow up with

665
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,240
with a gentleman named Padre out
of out of Trinity University in

666
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,360
Dublin.
And he and I talked about

667
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,640
bricks.
And I was the first time I heard

668
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,240
the term bricks, you know?
And I was like, holy cow, this

669
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,480
is a legitimate threat to
America too, that no one see

670
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,160
that that American.
I haven't even heard come up in

671
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,400
American media ever.
Like, how does it even happen?

672
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,520
We're still not a threat.
It's not a threat on America.

673
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,280
America should be part of
bricks.

674
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Well, right.
But with our attitude, it's a

675
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,440
threat with our current attitude
about.

676
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,480
Many world.
Dominators is a.

677
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Threat.
Many European countries have

678
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,400
joined Bricks.
We should join Bricks yes.

679
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,480
And we, you know, it was
originally started as, as

680
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:08,200
Brazil, Russia, India, China and
South Africa, Bricks BRICS.

681
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,240
And but now it didn't it, it
includes a lot of countries,

682
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,400
including European countries.
It's it's an international

683
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,800
trading organization.
And it may have been started by

684
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,040
China and it may still be
strongly influenced by China,

685
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,680
but it's basically an
international trading

686
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,560
organization.
And as this is the kind of the

687
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,280
new Silk Road and you know, for
the United States to see these

688
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,400
things constantly as threats
puts us in the position of the,

689
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200
you know, it's win, win.
It's, it's win, win, lose.

690
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,760
You know, we, we really should
be looking at these things as as

691
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,400
win, win.
We we should want China to do

692
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,640
well because then they're not
going to be a threat.

693
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,800
I agree.
I agree.

694
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:55,440
I.
Agree.

695
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,520
We're not.
We're not talking about the old

696
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,880
Soviet Union.
China's not the old Soviet

697
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,720
Union.
It's a very, very, very

698
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,720
different situation, very
different ideology, very

699
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:10,200
different approach to life.
It's based on trade, it's not

700
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,960
based on militarism.
And of course China's increasing

701
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,720
its own military forces because
it feels it has to defend

702
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,840
itself.
But still it's it's way of

703
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,680
expanding its influence in the
world has been through trade,

704
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,880
which now it's the number one
trading partner was almost 80%

705
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,400
of the world's countries.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

706
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:35,120
I, I kind of, I wonder what's
going to happen when America,

707
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,080
because I think that right now a
lot of countries look in America

708
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,800
very differently than America
looks at itself.

709
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,440
That's probably been the case
for many probably since World

710
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,080
War 2, I imagine actually.
But I wonder what happens when

711
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,920
America realizes it looks,
starts to look at itself like

712
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,720
the other countries do.
And we learn and we grow a sense

713
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,520
of humility and a sense of
collaboration because we feel

714
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,040
like we have.
I, I feel like the reason why we

715
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,240
don't collaborate now is because
you feel like we don't have to.

716
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,680
You know, we're strong enough,
we're big enough, we're bully

717
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,840
enough, you know, like Trump and
Biden and all the presidents

718
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,680
would always say like we could
go to or anyone you want for as

719
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,200
long as you want to do whatever
you want.

720
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,160
And then when we do grow that
sense of humility, I'm very

721
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,400
curious how that's going to
affect our relationship with

722
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,160
other people and the way that
like, I think that when people

723
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,320
are finally held.
People are finally held

724
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:27,800
accountable for their own
actions.

725
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,720
And I think that this is
actually going to be brought on

726
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:34,280
by the whole Epstein list being
start or Epstein file case

727
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,280
starting to be opened up a
little bit.

728
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,880
The world that the people are
not letting up on that you know,

729
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,960
they're they're going to be
consequences to actions.

730
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,440
I hope.
I think people's heads are going

731
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,000
to roll and then it's going to
force us to kind of evolve as

732
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,480
the way that we understand
ourselves and the rest of the

733
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,640
world and the way that we could
be in the future.

734
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,880
Well, yeah, I hope you're right.
You know, I hope that we will.

735
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,320
I hope we are being humbled by
all of this.

736
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,840
I feel humbled.
Yeah.

737
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,240
Yeah.
How you do.

738
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,240
But there's still a lot of manga
people out there that don't.

739
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,520
And, and, and I, you know, you
could say what we've been, what

740
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,000
we have up until now is, is
extreme hubris as you defined

741
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,120
it.
And when I mentioned being hit

742
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,480
by a 2 by 4, that's what I,
that's what I mean.

743
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,320
I think Trump, we can hopefully
Trump would be the greatest gift

744
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,280
we've, we've ever had because
he'll be a capitalist that'll

745
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,880
help us see ourselves the way
much of the rest of the world

746
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,920
sees us and the way we ought to
be looking at ourselves.

747
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,320
You know, I'm a very, very
staunch US patriot.

748
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,080
My family fought in the
Revolutionary War.

749
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:46,120
I go back a long time in this
country and, and I grew up very

750
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,440
much with a sense of extreme
patriotism, but I also grew up

751
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:56,680
with the with the knowledge that
a good patriot in a democracy

752
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,520
criticizes the democracy and
democracy depends on self

753
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,440
criticism.
It's like if you really want to

754
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,600
be a better person, you've got
to look at your faults and, and

755
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,360
so you can correct them and you
can't correct them until you

756
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,640
look at them.
So I've always, I've seen my job

757
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,200
as being, you know, pointing out
some of the faults, but also the

758
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,400
way these faults can lead to
opportunities.

759
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,880
But we have to be more self
critical.

760
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,400
And we haven't been, as you
said, we've, we've sort of

761
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,720
assumed that we are the defender
of democracy around the world,

762
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:31,400
despite the fact that we've
supported a lot of brutal

763
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:38,560
dictators like Pinochet and, and
Chile and, and, and, and, you

764
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,360
know, Saudi Arabia, my God, you
know, and so, and the Shah of

765
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,400
Iran, you know, he was a, a
brutal dictator and, and so on

766
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,840
and so forth.
So we're, we're not a defender

767
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,320
of democracy.
We're defender of what I call

768
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,160
predatory capitalism.
Capitalism that's run by big

769
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,640
international of corporations
that will do anything they can

770
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,120
to get rid of their competitors,
which now is the philosophy that

771
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,600
we are using.
And looking at China the same

772
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,080
the same way that that so many
big corporations look at anyone

773
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,160
that comes along and seems to
threaten their market share.

774
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,480
They go after them hog.
They don't they don't look at

775
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,280
well listen, maybe if I
cooperated with them, we'd all

776
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,440
if competition is good,
everybody gets better in

777
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,000
competition.
I'm often reminded of when I, I

778
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,440
was in school, I played tennis
and I was, I was always #2 and

779
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,080
the other way to be #1 was to
beat #1 and I was never very

780
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,600
successful at that.
But I'd play him as frequently

781
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,560
as a coach would let me to try
to take his position.

782
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,200
And every time I played him, we
both got better.

783
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,880
Yeah.
And then we played on the same

784
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,760
team as double s against other
schools.

785
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,040
And because we'd each gotten
better playing against each

786
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,080
other, we now we're a better
team against the other schools.

787
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,920
So competition can do that for
you.

788
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,280
It sharpens you, it makes you
better at what you do.

789
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,120
And if you're not, if you don't,
if you don't get better at what

790
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,320
you do, then you're out.
And, and, and that's true

791
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,800
capitalism, the old, not, not
predatory, but that you know,

792
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,320
that, you know, the, the
capitalism is, you know, my

793
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,440
grandson's when he was little
lemonade stand.

794
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,680
You know, if the guy over there
had better lemonade than he did,

795
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,600
then he's going to go out of
business.

796
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,440
But if he could make lemonade,
then this guy put a little more

797
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,040
sugar in it or whatever, then
that guy would go out of

798
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,040
business.
And that's, that's the, the, the

799
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:36,360
nature of, of, of, of true
capitalism.

800
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,480
The other possibility would be
that the two of them kind of

801
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,200
come together and kind of maybe
spread out with their lemonade

802
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,840
stand.
So he's here and this guy that

803
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,840
maybe one of them takes it on
the road.

804
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,200
You don't just sell it as we go
over to that part of town, you

805
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,160
know, so we can work together.
And that's, that's where the

806
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,240
harmony and and that's where we
need to go today is working

807
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,760
together.
How can China and the United

808
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,760
States work together to get rid
of pollution in the world?

809
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,200
We are together.
We could we create more than

810
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,960
40%, almost 50% of the world's
pollution as well as as 50% of

811
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,480
almost 50% of the world's GDP.
So how do you know if we can't

812
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,360
come together to solve these
problems?

813
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,040
China and the United States
working together, I don't think

814
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:30,000
there's much hope for humanity.
Well, I think there is because

815
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,560
the people that are saying that
we're the enemies are becoming,

816
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,000
well we're enemies with one
another becoming less and less

817
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,840
credible every day.
And I actually.

818
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,800
Well, that's, that's what I'm
saying that if, if we can work

819
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,000
together, if we can work
together, then there is hope for

820
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:45,840
humanity.
So that actually.

821
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,520
Brings Yeah, totally.
So I I had an observation.

822
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,200
I recorded a solo episode on
Saturday night.

823
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,640
I had a lot of thoughts on my
mind about Israel and the

824
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,000
current, you know, the war and
the state that that that the

825
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,680
country and the people and Jews
around the world are in.

826
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,760
And one thing that I noticed
that I was talking about is at

827
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,800
least from an American
perspective, and all this is,

828
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,320
and it's different about the
societies.

829
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:16,160
Israel happens to be a very
hands on society because life is

830
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,920
constantly a little bit chaotic.
And so it always requires direct

831
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,840
intervention.
Sometimes, you know, either

832
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:27,560
physical or with, let's say with
negotiating, right, like, I mean

833
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,720
like again, like nothing is
almost like there's no set rules

834
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:32,240
in business in, in, in in a lot
of these countries, you walk

835
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:34,880
into the store and you know,
sometimes it's a big

836
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,080
corporation, but most of the
time you walk into a mom and pop

837
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,720
shop where someone's like this
is 50 shackle and I say, can I

838
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:41,760
give you 35 for it though?
Yeah, take a go, you know, take

839
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,160
it if you're going to do it
right now.

840
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,960
Otherwise, if you come back
tomorrow, forget about it, you

841
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,680
know, And then I noticed in
America that, and I'm sure that

842
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,200
social media has a lot to do
with this.

843
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,720
I'm sure that the technology
that we have in the, in the

844
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,960
world that we've kind of put
ourselves in right now has to do

845
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,360
with this.
But we're everyone's very

846
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:02,960
passive.
I've noticed or that at least

847
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,640
the young generation is
extremely passive.

848
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,920
People are afraid to to if they
see something going on to say

849
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,640
anything.
There's a tremendous sense of

850
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,680
this bystander effect that like
we we all know, we all notice

851
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,960
that there's a problem, but
we're all kind of afraid to do

852
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,960
something about it because
they're supposed to be an

853
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,600
authority that that does
something for it for us, you

854
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,040
know, and that's kind of how
we've always.

855
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,400
I think that's, I think that's
one of the potential downsides

856
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,680
of being so comfortable and so
wealthy and so protected is, you

857
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,360
know, especially geographically
by two enormous oceans and

858
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,920
having neighbors like Canada and
Mexico that, you know, I mean,

859
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,160
talk about Mexico separately.
But overall, we don't have wars

860
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,400
with them.
We don't fight with them in the

861
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,680
in that, in that kind of same
sense that a lot of other

862
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,000
countries do.
And I think that American people

863
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,240
have become passive in a way
that we don't really know.

864
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,840
Like we all know that there's a
problem.

865
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,680
We don't really know what we
could even do about it.

866
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,920
And there's a lot of self
censoring that's been going on,

867
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,200
you know, by myself included.
And there's a lot of people that

868
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,200
are afraid to say the wrong
thing because they do fear that

869
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,040
there's going to be
repercussions and that their

870
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,320
lives could be ruined.
So that is the only thing that

871
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,400
I've like that is to me is the
final hurdle.

872
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,920
We're like right there and
there's like a little bridge and

873
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,760
this is the final hurdle is to
kind of get Americans to be a

874
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,640
little bit more proactive and
interactive with their lives.

875
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:24,920
And then I think that an
enormous amount of change could

876
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,360
emerge.
They'll be this incredible

877
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,200
emerging quality of an
American's feel like we're all

878
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,880
one country, one people, 11
conglomerate together that trust

879
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,560
one another and can rely on one
another.

880
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,040
Rather than being this isolated
bunch of little individuals that

881
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,040
are separated by their own
social media bubbles or their

882
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,720
cell phone bubbles or their
their air pods or whatever it is

883
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,720
that I think that has kind of
torn us apart and kind of made

884
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:53,080
us passive.
Yeah, no, I I agree with you.

885
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,000
And I would like, yeah.
And so I, I would hope that if

886
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,800
that, that, that's the last
hurdle and that's what we need

887
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,000
to get past.
And a lot of the young

888
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,920
generation has been rejecting a
lot of what my generation

889
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,680
embraced.
A lot of the young generation is

890
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,680
rejecting social media, is
rejecting a typical life that

891
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,960
because we were told many, many
times, you go to school, you go

892
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,080
to work, you put your head down,
you, you know, you do the right

893
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,000
thing every single day and
you'll be able to get a job,

894
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,760
you're able to get a house and a
mortgage and a car and maybe go

895
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,640
on a vacation once a year.
And that system has not, has,

896
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,400
hasn't worked for anyone younger
than I would say 35 probably.

897
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,760
You know, I mean, I own a house
and I'm practically drowning

898
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,480
under it.
And, and I, and I know that I

899
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,400
constantly have to find other
ways to, to, to make money

900
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,800
because I'm in trouble, you
know, I'm in trouble otherwise.

901
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,040
And I think we're right there.
I just, I, I, I hope that we

902
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,560
can, I hope the younger that
this upcoming generation is more

903
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,240
religious, believes in God more,
is more likely to hang out in

904
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:57,640
movie theaters.
Like I, I, I know it sounds

905
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,840
crazy, but movie theaters our,
our joint experience where

906
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,240
people are getting together and
laughing together and crying

907
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:05,520
together.
And you walk out of a movie

908
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,640
theater and you're just overcome
with this incredible feeling of,

909
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,760
of like something has awakened
in you that you haven't felt in

910
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,880
forever.
Concerts.

911
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,400
I mean, you know, there's a
musician I'm following Billy

912
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,000
Strings.
And I mean, you can feel on the

913
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,600
recordings, even you can just
watch him.

914
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,040
You can just watch it and you
feel the, the presence and the

915
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,080
humanity that's there.
So I think that I, I really,

916
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,240
really do believe there's a lot
of hope.

917
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,000
Can we, I know we have 10
minutes left.

918
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,920
I would love to talk a little
bit about the Amazon, a little

919
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,080
bit about I listened to recent
podcast Gentleman Paul Rosalie,

920
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,400
who I'm sure you've heard of him
before, maybe you've met him

921
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,720
before, and he mentioned that
there are cartels that have been

922
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:45,560
trying to expand into the Amazon
to increase their drug

923
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:46,920
production.
Do you know anything about that?

924
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,280
Well, yeah, I've been I've been
involved, not involved in the

925
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,480
cartels, but yeah, they have
drug trafficking is having a

926
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,160
huge negative effect on
particularly the Amazon areas of

927
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,640
Peru and Ecuador, Colombia and
and some of Brazil.

928
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,560
But yeah, so, yeah, but yeah, I
mean, that's a that's a that's a

929
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,640
whole that's another large
topic.

930
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,640
And but, but I wanted to go back
and address something else you

931
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,480
said here.
And that, and that is, you know,

932
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,840
the, the, the book Art of the
Steal ends with very, very

933
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,280
optimistic and, and outlined
what we as individuals can each

934
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,760
do.
Because I think you're, you're,

935
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,280
you're absolutely correct that
people, we need to change

936
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,080
people's perception of what it
means to be successful and happy

937
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:40,520
and prosperous.
And so that's, that was one of

938
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,920
the reasons for writing this
book is to, yes, to point out

939
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,760
what's wrong, but also to say
you, you, you reader, you live

940
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,320
in a blessed time.
You know, you're blessed, you're

941
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,400
blessed to be alive right now
because the opportunities are

942
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,800
there.
And you know, I, there's a whole

943
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,680
lot of suggestions of what
people can do, But one, one of

944
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,400
the ones that I like best is to
say that we can all, we all have

945
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:12,040
different skills and different
desires and we can all move in

946
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,800
different paths as long as we
head for the same destination of

947
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,840
the life economy.
So the book outlines 5 different

948
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,000
questions we can each ask
ourselves to move in in that

949
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,360
direction.
And I don't know, what do we

950
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:26,920
have time?
Do you want me to mention those

951
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,320
5 or have I please?
Yeah, please, if you if you

952
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,080
don't mind, that'd be awesome.
Yeah, the first one is what do I

953
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,880
most want to do for the rest of
my life?

954
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,000
What would give me the greatest
satisfaction?

955
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,080
For me, it's writing.
I love to write.

956
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,280
And and for a friend of mine
who's a Carpenter, it's working

957
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,880
with his hands and wood and the
opposite end of the spectrum,

958
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,040
kind of.
And the second question is how

959
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,160
do I do this in a way that'll
help transform the deaf economy

960
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,560
to a life economy?
And for me, it's, well, I'm

961
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:53,640
going to write about those
things.

962
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:54,920
I want to.
I'm going to write books that I

963
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,640
hope will inspire people to get
involved in that, which is like

964
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,040
this most recent book does.
And from my Carpenter friend is

965
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,160
I'm going to use sustainable
materials and plant trees for

966
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,280
every tree that I that I use
out.

967
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,800
And the third question is, well,
what's stopping you?

968
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,480
What's holding you back?
What's the voice you're hearing

969
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,480
that says you can't do it?
And for and for the writer it

970
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,320
might be, well, I had an English
teacher who gave me bad grades

971
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,800
and, and, and yeah, it convinced
me that I wasn't a good writer.

972
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,560
And from my Carpenter friend of
my theater say, well, my clients

973
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:30,520
don't want to pay an extra price
for sustainable materials or for

974
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,560
me to plant trees.
So the 4th question, then the

975
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,360
4th question is when I look at
that problem, when I touch it,

976
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,640
rather than running from it,
when I confront what's holding

977
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,840
me back, the obstacle, rather
than ignoring it, denying it,

978
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,720
how do I change my perception?
And so for me as a writer, I

979
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,680
would say, well, my English
teacher would never publish

980
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,960
anything seriously.
He, he was just an English

981
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,400
teacher.
What did he know?

982
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,160
You know, and, and, and I'm a
good writer.

983
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,880
I'll write, let's see what
happens.

984
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,480
And for my Carpenter friend,
it's, well, I'll tell my

985
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,480
investor, my, my clients that
the extra price is not a cost,

986
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,080
it's an investment in the
future.

987
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,960
And then the third question is,
once you've changed your

988
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,760
perception, what actions do you
take?

989
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,760
You know, you got to start
writing and then and, and, and,

990
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,120
and building cabinets like this
without, with, with sustainable

991
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,840
materials.
So, you know, we can all ask

992
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,480
ourselves these five questions
and it's very individual.

993
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,240
You know, you can be a podcast
host, I can be a writer, my

994
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:34,960
friend can be a Carpenter, your
friend can be a plumber, a

995
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,840
dentist, a parent, a student,
whatever that we obviously

996
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,960
ourselves and if we all take our
own paths, the paths that will

997
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,680
bring us the greatest bliss, the
greatest satisfaction, we'll but

998
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,600
we head to that final
destination of the life economy.

999
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:56,720
That is that that goal is long
term benefits for all life and

1000
00:54:56,720 --> 00:54:59,440
not short term profits, short
term materialism.

1001
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,960
We need and not maximizing short
term prices.

1002
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,360
We need to make short term
profits.

1003
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,080
Businesses need to make short
term profits, but they don't

1004
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,720
need to maximize them.
They can put them toward, you

1005
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,000
know, a better future.
They can put them toward paying

1006
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,640
their employees.
My grandson who's 18, has an

1007
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,600
amazing company.
He's extremely successful.

1008
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,240
It's a window washing company.
And he, you know, one of his

1009
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:23,320
goals is he pays, he's got a
bunch of guys working for him,

1010
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,160
13 or 14 guys working for him.
He pays them all really well.

1011
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,080
These are kids in, in, in high
school or college.

1012
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,440
And you know, it's a great
source of income for them.

1013
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,960
But that's one of his goals, you
know, and he also sees cleaning

1014
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,960
windows as extending the life of
the woodwork around the window.

1015
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,360
So it's, it's, it's an
environmental move too, to a

1016
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,240
certain degree.
So you know, this is we, we can

1017
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:51,760
all move in that direction.
What happens when you feel like

1018
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,440
the things that are in your way
are just so enormous and the

1019
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,600
obstacles that are in your way
are just so big?

1020
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,720
For example, like me with the
podcast, right, I'm starting

1021
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:04,400
this and it happens to be that.
Thank God.

1022
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,280
I've learned a little bit of the
virtue of patients throughout my

1023
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,760
life.
So I understand and and

1024
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,480
thankfully the podcast is very
little cost for me.

1025
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,040
So for me, it's just time
investment in something that I'm

1026
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,240
passionate about.
But there's a lot of, there's,

1027
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,400
there, there are going to be,
and there are, there have been a

1028
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,000
lot of steps for me to overcome
and a lot of hurdles and a lot

1029
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,240
of things and, and, and, and,
and there have been many times,

1030
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,240
especially when I was first
starting, I'm like, I don't even

1031
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,440
know how I'm going to even get
over this.

1032
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,200
Like it just looks like there's
a mountain over here.

1033
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,200
What what?
What do you do when when, When

1034
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,680
it feels like that?
Well, you did go over it well.

1035
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,960
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trekking my
way up.

1036
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,240
I don't know if I'm over.
No, the one you described is you

1037
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:49,960
don't know how to start a
podcast.

1038
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,360
You've started with, you've got
1 going.

1039
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,080
So what's the obstacle right
now?

1040
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,560
The obstacle, the obstacle right
now is I guess it's reach, I

1041
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,360
would imagine.
OK, so why can't Why haven't you

1042
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,960
reached more people?
I don't know.

1043
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,600
There you go, there's your
blockage.

1044
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,520
You don't know because there's
some voice back there that's in

1045
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,520
head.
I suspect that's saying, well,

1046
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,720
you're not really good enough.
You don't know enough.

1047
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,280
You don't know about bricks.
You don't know enough to to

1048
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,040
really get out there and, and,
and get the word out there.

1049
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,400
So you know you'll that, that,
that voice.

1050
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,560
So you don't know what the next
step is, but look at what the

1051
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,160
next step is.
How have other part you

1052
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,600
mentioned the five top podcasts.
How did they get there?

1053
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,240
How did they get there?
What did they do?

1054
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,840
How do you use TikTok?
How do you use Facebook?

1055
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,680
How do you use X?
How do you use all these

1056
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,400
different to to get your message
out there more and more.

1057
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,760
Be creative, open your mind,
open up to the spirits, follow

1058
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,520
you know, let the you know it's
out there.

1059
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,400
The information is there.
You just got to go out and grab

1060
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,320
it.
And and so, you know, don't

1061
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,760
listen to whatever little voice
is in your head saying no, no,

1062
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,520
no, you're not, you're not good
enough.

1063
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,160
You, you know, I don't know what
the voices are for you, but some

1064
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,280
parent or some teacher or some
religious figure or somebody

1065
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,120
saying, you know, don't do it,
or maybe it's too dangerous.

1066
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,560
Oh my God, you know, you might
get in trouble.

1067
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,200
Somebody might criticize you,
you might get criticism.

1068
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,840
You might be, you might be a
failure, you might be a success.

1069
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,000
And then what happens?
And.

1070
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,640
That's what I'm most afraid of.
I don't.

1071
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,840
I'm afraid of success for sure.
I don't know what.

1072
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,080
You go.
I do not.

1073
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,800
I almost don't want to find out.
I'm really scared about that

1074
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:29,200
actually.
Yeah.

1075
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,400
Well, you've got to confront
that and and, and if you really

1076
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,640
don't want to find out, then get
out of the business.

1077
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,720
No Of.
Course, of course and do

1078
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,840
something else, but if you want
to find out then go deep into

1079
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,200
it.
How do you recommend I confront

1080
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,960
it?
You got to go into it like,

1081
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,600
what?
What about success are you

1082
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,880
afraid of?
What is it and what and who's

1083
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,960
told you that?
I'm afraid of the weight of the

1084
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:58,400
responsibility of, of having
other people think that what I

1085
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,160
like, I don't, I think that my
greatest value is to help other

1086
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,160
people accomplish their best
value.

1087
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,040
So I don't want other people to
take what I have to say for face

1088
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,720
value.
And I'm and I don't want to be,

1089
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,400
I don't want people to
accidentally think, hey, you

1090
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,000
know, he's, he's doing, you
know, he's telling me to do

1091
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,800
this, I'm doing this.
I wanted to I might, my goal is

1092
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,000
much more to have other people
here and say I want to be the

1093
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,760
best myself that I could be.
And he and you know, these are

1094
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:29,920
great directions for me to do
it.

1095
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,560
So, but that line is very thin.
You know, a lot of people will

1096
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,000
take people that don't even
don't want to be authorities.

1097
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,280
Bob Dylan has a career of
rejecting being, you know, any

1098
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,200
kind of authority or any kind of
hero and any kind of sense, and

1099
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,480
that's all people insist on
doing with him so.

1100
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,680
I don't think, I don't think so.
I think Bob Dylan has inspired

1101
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,640
people to be themselves.
I don't think, I don't think

1102
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,400
he's inspired people to follow
his route.

1103
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,800
I don't see a lot of musicians
going out and playing in the, in

1104
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,160
the subways of New York to
become another Bob Dylan.

1105
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,560
There may be some, but I think
he's inspired a lot more people.

1106
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,040
I'm not a musician, but he's
inspired me to be a better

1107
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,880
writer because he was a
brilliant writer.

1108
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,520
You know, he won the Nobel, he
won the Nobel Peace Prize as a

1109
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,800
writer.
So I see him as a great

1110
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,120
inspiration for me to be better
at at who I am.

1111
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,440
And I think you did that well.
And that's, that's the five

1112
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,360
questions I ask people to ask.
And you know, you might want to

1113
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,560
say at the beginning of your
program, I just want to make it

1114
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,680
very clear that I'm not trying
to influence you to be like me

1115
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,280
or to follow my, my philosophy.
I do have opinions.

1116
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,960
But what I want to do in this
show is, is open your mind to

1117
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,720
follow your own opinions, to
follow your own dream, to follow

1118
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,240
your heart so you know you can
overcome that obstacle.

1119
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,800
I understand that.
I see that as a, as a, as, as an

1120
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,880
obstacle, but but you can do it
in such a way.

1121
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,800
And I know that all of my
writings, people are going to

1122
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,800
read them and I've asked them at
the beginning, but most of my

1123
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,680
books, I say, Hey, you know,
read this in the way that'll

1124
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,920
impact you.
It's, it's, you know, it's

1125
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:07,720
everybody reads it differently.
So, you know, confront that,

1126
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,800
look into it more.
I've just touched on a few

1127
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,200
things, but you need to go into
what it is in you that's created

1128
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,520
that fear.
Who's told you that, that

1129
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,320
whenever you speak out, you're
going to be influencing other

1130
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,440
people?
Who's told you what?

1131
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,600
Teacher said.
Hey, Efrain, don't stop it.

1132
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,040
You know, you're trying to
influence the whole class and we

1133
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,720
don't want that.
We're we're trying to get to the

1134
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,600
to the heart of the matter here.
Not not your opinion.

1135
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:37,480
I don't know.
Anyway, yeah, until next time.

1136
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,680
Until next time, John, this is
so much fun.

1137
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,000
Thank you so much.
And it's a, it's really, it's a

1138
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,760
pleasure.
And again, I'm learning so much.

1139
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,760
I'm sure, I'm sure I'll learn
even more when I look, when I

1140
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,520
listen back to this.
Again, thank.

1141
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,800
You don't be don't be afraid to
to move forward.

1142
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,920
I, I, I won't.
I'm going to keep on going.

1143
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,960
Thank you, John.
Keep up your good work.