March 31, 2026
#149: Nick Marx / Right and Libertarian Media / Comedians and Politics / Political vs Class Divides
Nick Marx is a professor of Media and Visual Culture at Colorado State University specializing in media studies, media industries, digital media, and American politics and culture.
He is author or co-editor of several books, including Sketch Comedy: Identity, Reflexivity, and American Television (Indiana University Press, 2019), The Comedy Studies Reader (University of Texas Press, 2018), and Saturday Night Live and American TV (Indiana University Press, 2013). Nick's most recent book is That's Not Funny: How the Right Makes Comedy Work For Them (University of California Press, 2022).
https://www.libarts.colostate.edu/people/nickmarx/
1
00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,000
Welcome to another episode of
Come TOGETHER.
2
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,320
We're live.
Professor Nick Marks, welcome to
3
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,600
the show.
I'm so happy to have you here
4
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:20,320
today.
How are you?
5
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,160
Of course, of course.
I'm really excited to talk to
6
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280
you for a bunch of reasons.
Number one, you seem like a
7
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,720
really sweet and great dude bit
from our previous phone calls
8
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,320
and your willingness to work
with me this morning on despite
9
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,560
some technical issues.
And I'm also really excited
10
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,200
because I'm really interested in
the area that you research and
11
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,440
that you're largely researching,
which is really been the rise of
12
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,680
what I guess a lot of people
would call and certainly make a
13
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:56,080
strong argument for right wing
entertainment, film, media,
14
00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,640
whatever you want to call it.
But obviously seems to be on
15
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600
this enormous rise in the last
bunch of years.
16
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,480
And I'm, I'm really fascinated
in the research that you've been
17
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,680
doing and what you found.
And I'd love to just talk to you
18
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,920
and try to see if we can
understand the zeitgeist in
19
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:24,430
today's world a little bit.
Mm hmm.
20
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,360
Yeah.
How'd you get?
21
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:31,160
I want to, I would love to know
even just the open mindedness
22
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,400
of, of being willing to hear
that, you know, I know that, for
23
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,200
example.
And you know, I, I've been
24
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,800
trying very hard to kind of put
aside presuppositions that I've
25
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,160
had or things that I've been
taught my whole life and just
26
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,280
assumed we're real.
And then, you know, one thing at
27
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,120
a time kind of started
shattering a little bit.
28
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,800
And you know, it took me a
little bit of a little bit of
29
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,480
breaking my perception for me to
have the open mind to really
30
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,480
start exploring other avenues of
perspective.
31
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,160
What, what?
Let's see your open mindedness.
32
00:03:00,610 --> 00:04:16,060
Sure.
Yeah,
33
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:53,190
yeah.
Sure, sure.
34
00:04:54,310 --> 00:04:58,070
There's a lot there to unpack,
especially because, and I'm, you
35
00:04:58,070 --> 00:05:03,720
know, the world changes so
quickly today and it moves at
36
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,600
such a rapid pace that it feels
almost impossible to kind of
37
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,200
keep track of everything.
But one thing that I have
38
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,720
noticed is that your original
sentiment, you know, where the I
39
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,680
guess the root of a lot of this
comedy and a lot of this media
40
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,240
came from being pretty anti war
and sticking with pretty
41
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,360
historical, historically liberal
ideas is actually kind of where
42
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,480
we are today.
You know, when you look at the
43
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,080
top bunch of podcasts, if you
look at Theo Von and Rogan and
44
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,160
Danny Jones and, and all these
people, they're all pretty
45
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,560
against the war right now.
They've all been pretty
46
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,240
outspokenly against the war, you
know, the United States funding
47
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,000
the war against Ukraine and,
and, you know, and, and you've
48
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,760
seen the slide towards them kind
of, and this was this something
49
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,320
that happened with enormous
hesitancy.
50
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,640
You can see a real, real caution
against, against funding Israel
51
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,360
and their and their wars.
And and, and you know, and So
52
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,560
what, and so these people that
have been to store, you know,
53
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,800
that have been right for the
last, let's say 10 years or so
54
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,840
since Trump came down that
elevator in the in 2015 or 16 or
55
00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,320
whatever it was about 10 years
later.
56
00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,480
It almost feels like they kind
of they, they, they flip back.
57
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,600
It seems like their
sensibilities still seems pretty
58
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,440
consistent with those same
sensibilities.
59
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,480
Hey, everyone, real quick, if
you're enjoying the show, click
60
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,360
subscribe and rate the show. 5
stars helps a ton.
61
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,400
Thanks so much.
Abilities that got you involved
62
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:41,540
all those years ago.
Sure.
63
00:07:27,860 --> 00:08:28,880
Yeah.
So you think so you're, you're,
64
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,280
if I understand correctly, your
statement is that or your, your,
65
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,840
your, your observation rather
would be that they tend to be
66
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,120
right leaning with an occasional
reality check where they say,
67
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,160
hey, like, you know, we're not
sure we're on this.
68
00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:14,000
Sure, sure.
Sure.
69
00:09:29,290 --> 00:09:32,690
Right.
OK, I totally, I totally totally
70
00:09:32,690 --> 00:09:35,930
understand that.
I'm curious from the
71
00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:40,490
perspective, from your
perspective, I suppose, what do
72
00:09:40,490 --> 00:09:45,850
you think is so attractive
about, about these, you call
73
00:09:45,850 --> 00:09:49,400
them the manosphere, these
podcasters because I mean, the,
74
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,360
the range that they have, I
guess the amount of viewership
75
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,600
they have far exceeds what
anyone would call, you know, the
76
00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,760
institutionalized media.
And you know, and I and
77
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880
obviously I think it's pretty
clear that that that for a lot
78
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,960
of the youth, COVID really broke
a lot of people's perceptions of
79
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,640
institutions.
And what would be, you know,
80
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,600
considered, I guess late, you
know, the as like the 2000 tens,
81
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,280
2015 two thousand 20s, what was,
was considered to be social
82
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,760
norms kind of broke around COVID
time and there was this
83
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,680
explosion.
What do you what do you think
84
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,400
that it well, I I think it's
because because of a lot of
85
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,680
people feeling a lot down from
COVID.
86
00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:37,200
What do you think it was from
your perception?
87
00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:38,600
Sure.
Sure.
88
00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:55,790
Right.
So I, I've been following Rogan
89
00:12:55,790 --> 00:12:58,310
for a couple of years.
I don't remember when I started.
90
00:12:58,310 --> 00:13:01,190
I certainly did not start when I
was in, I graduated college.
91
00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:03,750
I was in Binghamton University,
upstate New York, around I, I
92
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:06,750
graduated 2017.
I don't think I ever really
93
00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:12,230
listened to Rogan until maybe
2022 or 2023.
94
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,520
And I found a lot of it to be
very refreshing on a personal
95
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:28,920
level for a number of reasons.
Number one was I felt like the
96
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,360
conversations didn't feel
scripted.
97
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,600
You know, it really did feel
authentic and really did feel
98
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,360
all the off the cuff.
And that was something that for
99
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,760
me, I thought we, I thought was
really, really valuable that in
100
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,480
the face of, you know, and it
happens to be that I am a pretty
101
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,920
anti authoritarian kind of guy
myself and pretty anti
102
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,400
establishment.
And that's kind of because I
103
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,920
never really fit into the
establishment lines, you know,
104
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,760
I'm a different type of shape, I
guess than the cookie cutter, I
105
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,000
suppose.
And I've always kind of felt a
106
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,600
little rejected, a little bit
like a misfit.
107
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,880
And so I found that this whole
universe over here kind of
108
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,800
appealed and spoke to, hey, you
know, I think there's a lot more
109
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160
misfits out there than what
people then then then are
110
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,080
actually articulating themselves
or are making themselves known.
111
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,520
And so that was kind of the
route that I really, that was
112
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,320
that was the first initial
branch that was really exciting
113
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,760
to me about it.
One thing I would like to, I do
114
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,200
want to push maybe back for a
little bit on is that Rogan
115
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:33,120
until the very, very end of 2020
to the end of the election, did
116
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,880
not ever publicly come out and
say that he was endorsing Trump.
117
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,280
He was he was, you know,
trashing on Kamala for sure and
118
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,160
definitely was trashing on Biden
for sure.
119
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,840
You know, there's no, I'm not
going to pretend that he was
120
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,040
impartial as far as that goes,
but it didn't seem like he was
121
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,240
fairly set on anyone.
And it felt like the sentiment
122
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,520
going around, or at least for
me, until Tulsi Gabbard came
123
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,480
over from the left side to to to
this to to the right.
124
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,800
And Elon Musk, who historically
had voted, I think left most of
125
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,840
his life came over and RFK
Junior until that until until it
126
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,760
felt like the there was a waking
up of a new political system.
127
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,440
Whereas it wasn't as much left
and right and more authoritarian
128
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,280
and establishment versus anti
establishment and anti
129
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,400
authoritarian and kind of
meaning to give these
130
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,880
institutions a little bit more
of a check than that.
131
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,880
Perhaps they've overreached in
some cases that to me at least,
132
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,000
and tell a lot of the people
that I've spoken to are the
133
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,160
people that you know, that have
a little bit more, I guess in
134
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,480
common.
As far as my background, my
135
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,520
education, my, my, my social
circles, we kind of have that in
136
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,000
common.
And I do feel like even till
137
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,640
today, right now, part of the
reason why I'm incredibly let
138
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,040
down by Trump's second, you
know, I, I didn't really follow
139
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,760
politics really in his first
presidency, but in his second
140
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,480
one, I've been incredibly let
down by all the by all the
141
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,320
broken promises and by the fact
that it felt like this was going
142
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,320
to be an enormously anti
establishment, quote UN quote,
143
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,960
drain the swamp type of his
presidency.
144
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,960
And it's been just the opposite.
But I but I would, I would
145
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:18,400
hesitate to point my finger to
the the media because you could
146
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,960
see that they have been pushing
back when the things that that
147
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,720
swung them right had had
actually never actually came to
148
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:36,120
to to to.
Fruition, OK.
149
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:56,640
Mm hmm, sure.
Sure.
150
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:41,160
Yeah.
Sure.
151
00:18:26,910 --> 00:18:33,110
Yeah, sure.
Jordan.
152
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:42,090
Peterson Yeah, that's when.
It slides a little out of
153
00:18:42,090 --> 00:20:21,490
control, right?
Yeah.
154
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:24,930
Can I ask maybe for some
clarification what your
155
00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:28,610
resistance to that individual
individuality in that sense is?
156
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:24,070
Sure,
sure.
157
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,280
Yeah, you know, it does.
And what's really interesting
158
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,480
about that, because I actually,
you know, when you say it like
159
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,280
that, it sounds, it sounds a lot
more palatable to me for sure.
160
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000
What, what I thought was
interesting because
161
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,040
historically, from my
understanding, and please
162
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,640
correct me if I don't, if I'm
wrong again, I'm, I'm pretty,
163
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,520
I'm pretty, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm
still getting into this.
164
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,520
So, you know, I, I don't want to
speak with too much with it,
165
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,160
with it, with it, with any kind
of air of authority, but my
166
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,160
understanding is that the left
had always been excellent at
167
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,640
historically kind of coming
together like unionizing and the
168
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,280
examples that you give or, or
making these kind of groups or
169
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,920
social events or demonstrations
or protests or even college
170
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,520
campuses.
You know, the one of my favorite
171
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,920
movies on Netflix is the trial
of the Chicago 7 and, and how
172
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,280
that, that that movie was just
was so dynamic and so and so
173
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,840
awesome.
And, and, and, and the premise
174
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,280
about, you know, in, in, in 68
or 69, where, where where the,
175
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,160
where the a bunch of anti war
protesters gathered in Chicago
176
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,120
by the you know, to, to, to to
protest the Democratic Party, I
177
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:44,640
believe, right.
They're, they're protesting
178
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,880
Democratic convention, I
believe.
179
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000
So they were, they were
protesting their own party very
180
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,480
similar to kind of how I guess
you could see how the, how war
181
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,120
is kind of ripping the right
apart at the moment.
182
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,600
But you know, and, and, and then
the steps that government takes
183
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,520
where you know, and, and, and
the question had what was, is
184
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,160
this the government's fault to
the people's fault?
185
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200
And the answer almost always is
that it's the government's
186
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,160
fault.
I feel like but.
187
00:23:55,010 --> 00:24:38,210
Yes.
Yeah, or the right.
188
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:39,810
No one knows what to do with
healthcare now.
189
00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:47,940
Sure.
Totally, totally, totally.
190
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:52,420
I, I, yeah, I, I want to, I want
to just make what make one
191
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:53,620
point.
And then I want to ask you
192
00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:56,700
another question real quick.
But, you know, in response to
193
00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:58,980
that, there was a really great,
you know, and I've been
194
00:25:58,980 --> 00:26:01,980
listening actually to Tim Dylan,
who I disagree with in some
195
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,140
places and then love in other
places.
196
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:06,580
You know, and he's also one of
these guys.
197
00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:09,880
It's very hard to pin down as
far as where he stands, but he
198
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,160
has he has.
He had this awesome ramble rant
199
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,080
episode where he was talking
about the fact that the, you
200
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,240
know, the life that we, the, the
rules of the world that we were
201
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,200
told that growing up in America
no longer feel like they really
202
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,800
apply to, I guess the generate,
you know, the generation that
203
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,360
was born in the 90s and, and on
in the sense that, you know,
204
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,680
we're told, work hard, get a
college degree.
205
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,320
You know, you'll get it.
You'll get a introductory job,
206
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,200
you know, you'll get a first
level job.
207
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,160
And then, you know, may not be a
ton, but you know, you'll be OK.
208
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,960
And then after a couple of
years, you'll save up, got a
209
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,200
down payment, get married, you
know, do whatever you're going
210
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800
to do.
And people are seeing that
211
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,120
there's no way that that could
happen.
212
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,400
You and I were talking off
camera about how expensive
213
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Florida's gone, how expensive
Seattle's gone or Washington,
214
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,560
the state of Washington or the
state of, of Colorado or a lot
215
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,040
of states in the country.
And, and I feel like people are,
216
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,280
are, you know, who have gone
through and, and my own friends
217
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,000
in my own, my own world.
I'm, I feel kind of lucky that I
218
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,720
was always, I never really fit
into this official box because I
219
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,520
don't know what it would have
happened if I had $150,000 of
220
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,560
debt from going to an out of
State College and going to grad
221
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,280
school and be drowning in it.
You know?
222
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240
I mean, I, I, I think that I
think that there, there is a
223
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,360
massive vacuum where there's
people's ideals and there's, you
224
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,000
know, there's where you would
hope and, or love the world to
225
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,760
be.
And then there is just people
226
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,160
that feel like they're just,
hey, I, I would love to care
227
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,360
about that, but I could barely
afford food.
228
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,160
And I don't know if I'm getting
laid off next week, you know,
229
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,200
and that, and that's a really,
really serious concern.
230
00:27:49,870 --> 00:28:25,660
Yeah.
Sure, sure.
231
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:40,440
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
232
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,320
And I'm not going to.
Yeah, this could go a lot of
233
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,720
places.
But I will say that even
234
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,400
anecdotally for myself, the only
way I'm 30 years old.
235
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,440
I've been working since I was
21, and I currently have two
236
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,640
jobs that pay me.
And then I do the podcast.
237
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,640
I teach high school English, I
do sales in the family business
238
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,520
where I sell medical equipment.
And the only way I was able to
239
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,800
afford a house was my blue
collar high school teacher slash
240
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,440
college professor in New Jersey
grandfather dying and leaving me
241
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240
just enough to be able to put
together a down payment.
242
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,160
But I've been working for 10
years to, you know, five years
243
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,360
of my second job and I'm, you
know, and I'm barely getting by
244
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,200
and I'm not trying.
And, you know, and it's not the
245
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,360
question of hard work or not.
It's a question of it's a
246
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
question of, you know, what's
what, what's considered viable
247
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320
and what are the expectations
for society.
248
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,760
And the expectations are, hey,
you know, maybe you don't need a
249
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,480
home.
Hey, guess what, you know, maybe
250
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520
maybe you know, putting dump
payment down and owning your
251
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,000
home for 100 years and passing
it on to your kids is overrated.
252
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,440
And I don't know if that's
necessarily the answer that
253
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,480
people are are, you know, want
to hear for sure.
254
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,480
I, I want to, I want to, if you
don't mind, I want to just pivot
255
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,880
a little bit to the
individuality conversation right
256
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,840
now, because I think that
another sign of the left, you
257
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,640
know, this was what was
interesting that, you know, the
258
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,880
Part 1 was the organizational
structure, but Part 2 was really
259
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,800
a very strong sense of
individuality.
260
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,720
I'm a, I'm a sixties 70s hippie
fan junkie really.
261
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,960
And you know, I love that whole
counterculture world and it it
262
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,280
it's really the world of what
you would call defiance of the
263
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,520
society around you makes you
kind of want to feel like an
264
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,160
individual, you know, And I
think that part of what the
265
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,160
uprising of this right right
wing media that that we're
266
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,280
describing the libertarian
leaning media or the comedic
267
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,360
media that we've been describing
like, again, Trump, every clip
268
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,680
that I've seen of Trump in the
last couple of months, despite
269
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,360
how serious the world seems, it
kind of feels like he's making a
270
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,800
joke out of a lot of what's
going on.
271
00:31:40,800 --> 00:32:01,530
And you know,
he's a showman.
272
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,680
Totally, totally.
And I think that for and and I
273
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,000
think that for a lot of people
we had and you know, perhaps you
274
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,280
would disagree.
I don't know what your
275
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,720
perception is on this, but I
would say from like the early
276
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:25,840
2000 tens till maybe the end of
Biden's presidency was the stage
277
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,920
of of there.
There was a lot of very powerful
278
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:36,560
left-leaning institutions that I
think like what you said at the
279
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,880
beginning and you know, and, and
we could discuss the extent of
280
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,240
quote UN quote, free speech
into, you know, to what extent
281
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,080
that that is permissible or
what, what falls under free
282
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,560
speech or not.
I think a lot of people did feel
283
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,360
like they had the need to self
censor.
284
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,360
And a lot of people did feel
like they could not say what
285
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,760
they wanted to say for a long
time out of fear of losing their
286
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,200
job or fear of someone pulling
up a, a tweet or a Facebook post
287
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,360
from 10-15 years ago and then
and then demanding that they get
288
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,000
fired for, for, for such a
thing.
289
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,080
And so I think that a lot of
people that were historic, that,
290
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,360
that, that felt like, and again,
to the, you know, that, that,
291
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,640
that historically had the
ability to express themselves,
292
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,280
felt like they were being pushed
down a little bit or compressed
293
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,000
or suffocated.
And that's kind of what led to,
294
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880
and, and I think that and like
Trump's second campaign, say
295
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,800
what you will, was incredible.
The amount of the the he it went
296
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,560
from, and again, I'll speak
anecdotally from my own
297
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,800
experience.
If I met someone in the street
298
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,280
in Miami and I was going on a
road trip while I was doing
299
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,920
whatever I was doing in my life
and I was traveling quite a bit
300
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,760
at that point in my life.
And I would be afraid to bring
301
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,440
up the name Trump in a
conversation.
302
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,720
Like whenever you talk about
politics, like the name Donald
303
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,520
Trump was like considered taboo,
like he who must not be named.
304
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440
And and then something broke
about that.
305
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,440
Something really something
shattered.
306
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,400
And it almost felt like the
society as a whole or American
307
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Society as a whole or a lot of
it wanted to throw off this the
308
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,679
this yoke of fear of speaking.
I'm curious what your thoughts
309
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,800
are on that and how.
Because historically
310
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,840
individuality was always
associated with the left, but
311
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,199
now it almost felt like the last
10-15 years they were trying to
312
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,960
stifle other people from being
self expressive.
313
00:34:32,360 --> 00:35:15,230
Sure.
Cool,
314
00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:57,220
right?
Yes.
315
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:48,400
Sure.
Right.
316
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,720
Yeah, that's really and I and I
think do you think that's
317
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,720
changing?
Do you think that you think
318
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,080
that's going to do you think
that the left has, you know,
319
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,800
because again, and, and also,
like you mentioned earlier,
320
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,160
these terms, I feel like are
becoming a little bit less and
321
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,360
less relevant as far as like
left and right and more, you
322
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,800
know, was authoritarian or
institutional.
323
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,240
Or I mean, the way, the way that
Rokahana calls it or Thomas
324
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,320
Massie call it the Epstein
class, as in like this top, top,
325
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,000
top tier of, and I do want to
talk a little bit about that.
326
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,760
But the top, top, top tier of,
of this, of the echelons of
327
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,840
society don't seem to be playing
by any rules.
328
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,200
And I think, and they seem to be
making all these decisions on
329
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,600
the behalf of of a lot of people
that don't want this.
330
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,360
You know, I mean, the left
didn't want it.
331
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,840
They didn't vote for Trump.
The right vote didn't want it.
332
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,840
They voted for Trump because
they didn't want a lot of what
333
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,320
was going on.
And it seems to be happening
334
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,680
anyway.
So it almost feels like there's
335
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,080
a like a dissolving of general
parties and more going to be
336
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,560
some kind of reckoning of this
ultra elite versus the populist
337
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:13,800
everyday people.
Sure.
338
00:38:45,160 --> 00:39:18,130
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure.
339
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:59,100
Do you think it's a good thing
or do you think that's a neutral
340
00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:00,700
thing or do you think that's
just cyclical?
341
00:40:12,970 --> 00:41:08,350
I see.
Yeah, Yeah, I would love to talk
342
00:41:08,350 --> 00:41:11,310
to you now because I mean, I'm,
I'm, I love the entertainment
343
00:41:11,310 --> 00:41:14,470
world and I've been following
the entertainment world for a
344
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:16,150
couple of years, for a bunch of
years now.
345
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:18,350
And you know, I love reading
about these companies, about
346
00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,630
Disney and Paramount and Netflix
and you know, the background
347
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:24,390
into what goes into the decision
making of how things work and
348
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:31,120
the business aspects of things.
And you have, oh man, I'm going
349
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,800
to say these things even though
I'm sure I'm going to get in
350
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,200
trouble for them.
I don't really care anymore.
351
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:38,480
I, you know, Glenn Greenwald is
a journalist.
352
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:44,480
I'm sure you're familiar with
who is it's funny.
353
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,800
His reputation is as a left as a
lefty.
354
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,720
He has historically been very in
general pro speech.
355
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:55,520
He was famous for breaking the
Snowden case and from meeting
356
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,120
Snowden with, you know, when he,
when he was, and you know, I
357
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,520
don't even know if you want to
get into Snowden or not, but you
358
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,080
know, anyway, he, he, he, he
said a lot of, he said he, he,
359
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,640
he's pretty controversial, even
though he is extremely eloquent
360
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,760
and intelligent.
And it does really, I think I
361
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,080
think he's very fair.
If I if you listen to him
362
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,120
through it is very credible
reporting and and he does a lot
363
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:24,440
of talking about the influence
of of Israel over American media
364
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,920
in the sense that the Ellison
family has been buying TikTok
365
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,120
and buying CBS and now in about
Paramount and is now in the
366
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,800
midst of it looks like they're
going to get the Warner Brothers
367
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,400
company or the library.
I know that they were fighting
368
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,840
with Netflix about it.
And I know.
369
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,040
And one thing that this Trump
2.0 administration seems to have
370
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,080
no limit to is how many favors
they're willing to give out to
371
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,400
friends of theirs.
And you know, you wonder how you
372
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,920
know what you wonder about, you
know, Ellison's relationship to
373
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,200
Trump as opposed to Netflix's
relationship to him.
374
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,400
And you know, why, why the why
the Warner Brothers deal ended
375
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,520
up the way it did.
But what do you what do you kind
376
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,720
of observe about the landscape?
Because like you said, it is
377
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:08,520
shifting, right?
Do you are people noticing this?
378
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,280
Is this, is this something
that's in the zeitgeist or is
379
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,280
this kind of happening quietly
behind the scenes?
380
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:54,770
You think
OK.
381
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,480
For most fun in Gopi for one
year old Bharatiya Manoj
382
00:44:01,560 --> 00:45:32,320
Bajrangi bhaiyya Ki bhiwati.
Yeah, it is.
383
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,680
But I, I mean, and perhaps I
mean, I, I think on the flip
384
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,520
side of that, the potential hope
is that so much technology has
385
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,480
democratized the, you know, the
people's ability.
386
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,880
YouTube, there's a great podcast
I listen to called the Town with
387
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,120
a gentleman, Matthew Bellamy,
who's an awesome reporter and
388
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,640
lawyer.
Yeah, I love that podcast.
389
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,400
And, and, and he and he's
awesome.
390
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,680
And and, and they do they, they,
they do great coverage.
391
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,360
I am just losing my train of
thought over here again, just
392
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,400
thinking about that.
I'm sorry, but shoot, what was
393
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,680
that?
What was that last point that we
394
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,040
were discussing that?
Oh, sorry, so democracy YouTube
395
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,680
takes up such a massive portion
of like Netflix can't keep up
396
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,200
with YouTube.
Disney can't keep up with
397
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,080
YouTube.
No one can keep up with YouTube.
398
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,280
And YouTube is democratized
information, you know, and like
399
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,000
anyone kind of post whatever
they want and become as big as
400
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,920
they want and think about how
big Mr. Beast is relative to a
401
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,200
lot of whole corporations, the
whole institutions, you know.
402
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,360
And so I think that there, I
think that there there's hope.
403
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,280
I think that similar to the kind
of sense that film was always a
404
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,880
little, you know, movies were
always a little stuck up about
405
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,040
not doing television and
television kind of, you know,
406
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,120
swept in and they and they
really took the landscape by
407
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,440
storm.
It looks like that this is even
408
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,240
transitioning even more from
formal studio settings to judge,
409
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,520
Hey, you got a great iPhone.
You have awesome technology.
410
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,680
All you need is a couple of good
apps and some AI and you're
411
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,760
working together and you're
making this incredible app and,
412
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,400
and you could make a cultural
and, you know, impact and you
413
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,880
could have a, have a, have a say
in what people, people perceive
414
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,920
society.
And I think that's really
415
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,160
wonderful.
And, you know, and I think that
416
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,320
as time goes on, you know,
you'll, you'll, you'll have
417
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,840
people that are, be like, Hey,
you know, the, the, the, the age
418
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,000
group, the age of people that
watch Fox or MSNBC or CNN is, I
419
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,160
think on average above 65.
It's not going to be too long
420
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,960
before you have people that are
streaming and doing the same
421
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,640
thing.
And then everyone, I, I had a
422
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,600
babysitter.
I have a three-year old.
423
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,680
I, I had, I had a babysitter
come for a couple hours and I
424
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,520
walked back in the house and the
TV was off and, and, and this
425
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,440
girl was on her phone.
I said, did you not watch
426
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,440
anything when we were gone?
And she's like, no, I never
427
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,320
watch TVII watch everything on
my phone, right?
428
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,280
You know, and I was like, that
is, it's crazy to me, you know,
429
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,400
but that's the world we're
heading to.
430
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,240
Yeah, I, I, I, I hear you.
I think that, I think that even
431
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,040
if you were to do with it
within, like, listen, I, you
432
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,880
know, there's certain podcasts
that are productions, you know,
433
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,440
and I guess would you, would you
make the argument, for example,
434
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,040
that something like Diary of
Aceo or, you know, any of these
435
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,240
very produced shows that they
listen, they're obviously A-Team
436
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,920
and there's obviously, you know,
a collective effort going on.
437
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:14,680
What I the only thing that kind
of is a little disconcerting for
438
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,680
me, just the way that I'm, I'm
processing this and it could be
439
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,280
that you're not even meaning to
say it like this, is that I, I
440
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,640
feel like there's a danger to
stifling individuality.
441
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,560
And when you stifle
individuality, people don't do
442
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,920
well emotionally or in
relationships or, or mental
443
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,760
health as far as their mental
health is concerned.
444
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,240
And so like, I know for myself
that, you know, I have AI have a
445
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,080
balance between personal
responsibility and community
446
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,400
effort.
You know, I'm part of a, you
447
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,240
know, I mean, as an Orthodox
Jew, there's a collective
448
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:48,880
congregation that I'm part of
and, you know, there's a
449
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,960
community that I'm part of it.
Everyone helps support
450
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,240
everything.
I mean, we bought the, you know,
451
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,480
and, and everyone collectively
pitched in and we bought a
452
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,800
little house that everyone is
kind of helping.
453
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,840
One guy's a plumber and one
guy's a contractor and one guy's
454
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,320
a handyman.
And everyone's kind of pitching
455
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,840
in and, and bringing what they
have to the table to make
456
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,440
something really, really
beautiful.
457
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,040
And what the word I use is
emergent, you know, where the
458
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,760
sum of its whole, the sum of the
total parts are way bigger than
459
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,960
the individual components.
Are you pushing more for that?
460
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Are you saying that there's
something, you know, there's
461
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,640
something that you think is
scary about the actual process
462
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,640
of being an individual and
meritocracy like that?
463
00:51:39,520 --> 00:52:14,730
Yes.
Hell yeah.
464
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:53,340
Yeah.
I got you.
465
00:52:54,340 --> 00:53:18,400
Sure.
I really hope so.
466
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,800
I, I think I tend to agree.
I really do.
467
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,320
I have to think about that a
little bit more because on one
468
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,120
hand, I, on one hand, what
you're saying sounds and you
469
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,360
know, like it really speaks to
me and it really speaks to, you
470
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,280
know, the sentiment that I've,
that I feel like I would vouch
471
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,080
for and that I would, I would
articulate.
472
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:45,040
On the other hand, I think that
and I don't know what I think
473
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,040
that and maybe this is just me,
insecurity kind of causes
474
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,840
motivation for me.
You know, I'm not, I find that,
475
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,240
you know, for example, there's
one week, maybe a month or two
476
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:01,560
ago where everything was just
flowing, you know, and I do
477
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,000
sales.
So I'm relatively Commission
478
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,720
based and you know, I have a
small base and then whatever I
479
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:08,640
close on, I make a percentage
of.
480
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,200
And there was one week where I
had great podcasts lined up.
481
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,640
Everything worked out and sales
were going great and the house
482
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,640
felt good.
And my, you know, my family was
483
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,480
getting along and everyone was
happy with one another.
484
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,280
And I was like, man, like, is
this what it feels like to have,
485
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,480
you know, to have it made?
And then like a week later,
486
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,920
everything kind of collapsed
because I got comfortable to the
487
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,160
point where I start where I
didn't do any preventive
488
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,640
maintenance.
I didn't feel like I had that
489
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,160
kind of fire under my butt to
keep me to keep me going.
490
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:42,680
Now I now fortunately, and I'm,
I'm in a, I'm sure a different
491
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:43,960
situation than most of the
world.
492
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,280
And in the sense that, you know,
even if I am stressed out, like,
493
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,800
you know, OK, like, you know,
they really, I don't have food
494
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,680
insecurity in the way that
you're describing.
495
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,760
I don't really have housing
insecurity in the way that
496
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,920
you're describing.
And I think that we do really
497
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,720
need that.
And so, you know, I, I do, I
498
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:05,320
definitely don't want to, to
negate that, especially just
499
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,040
based on my own anecdotal
experience.
500
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,240
On the other hand, I think a lot
of people would say that, you
501
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,880
know, humans do need motivation
in general and humans do.
502
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,520
And by the way, it could just be
the script that we're, that
503
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,320
we're given.
For example, you know, I think
504
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,600
that there's, you know, when
someone says, are you
505
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,000
successful, there's a million
ways that that could manifest.
506
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,600
But the reason with the
interpretation that 90% of
507
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,480
society would probably tell you
or more is does that mean you
508
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,960
have a lot of money?
You know, and I certainly do not
509
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,840
perceive success to be that way.
So maybe it's just a change, a
510
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,360
shift in the way that we look at
things.
511
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,720
And, and I actually do look
forward to a post capital
512
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,000
capitalistic society in this
sense, with short term earnings
513
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,280
driving everything.
And being we had a place where
514
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,920
we're technologically and
financially and socially, or I
515
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,880
guess even just those two
technology and financially
516
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:04,600
comfortable enough that we could
turn the efforts of, you know,
517
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,640
our goals and society to
something more humanitarian like
518
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,160
relationships or adventure or,
you know, or, or something like
519
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,160
that where you could say, Hey,
are you successful?
520
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,880
And successful means I got to
the, I got to Mars, you know?
521
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,400
And like, that'd be so much
better than making $5,000,000,
522
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:58,600
whatever it is.
Yeah.
523
00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:18,650
Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't
agree more.
524
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:21,330
And I look for, you know, and I
mean, I think that we're really,
525
00:57:21,410 --> 00:57:23,850
and, you know, I guess from an
economic perspective, I think
526
00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:26,690
we're rapidly approaching a
point where either there's going
527
00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:31,360
to be an enormous collapse or I
think that what a lot of people
528
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,440
are counting on is the wealth
and the abundance that AI,
529
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,560
robotics and potentially nuclear
energy will, will help provide
530
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,280
that.
We'll say, you know, even though
531
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,480
we're in such an economic hole,
the amount of wealth that's
532
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,560
going to be created from this is
so overwhelming that it wouldn't
533
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,680
even matter.
And you know, I, I, you know, if
534
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,320
you were to ask me if you were
like, hey, you're running the,
535
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,360
the show and you know, here,
here's the situation you're in.
536
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,960
I'll be like, I don't know if I
like, if I like that idea of
537
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,880
like staking everything on like
maybe AI being a hero, you know,
538
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,960
but, but apparently that's the
trajectory we're heading down
539
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,720
one way or the other.
So whether I like it or not, it
540
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,200
thinks, I think that that's the
world we're in.
541
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,360
Can, can you, have you done any
kind of work?
542
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,400
Can you speak at all about any
of these platforms like Rumble
543
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:33,080
or like these alternatives to
the typical mainstream platforms
544
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,720
that people use to consume
media?
545
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,320
And you know what, like their
trajectory of success because,
546
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,520
you know, I feel the the need
for, you know, the need that
547
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:51,600
created a website like Rumble,
for example, doesn't largely
548
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,160
exist to the same extent.
People aren't getting tossed off
549
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,760
of social media the same way.
And you know, there's a million
550
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,800
different reasons why and I
don't really care to get into
551
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,200
them at the moment.
But what do you think about
552
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,560
those alternative platforms?
And do you think that there's
553
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,600
that there that there's room for
them to survive?
554
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,200
And what do you think about them
in general?
555
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,320
No problem.
I guess.
556
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,000
You know, I'm sorry.
And I know that because we
557
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,360
started late, I'm going to have
to get off sooner than I wanted.
558
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,920
Yeah, I wanted to actually ask.
I I do.
559
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,880
I always like to try to end
things on a positive and
560
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,240
constructive note.
You know, even if you point out
561
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,680
any kind of issues that we might
have as a side of your world,
562
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,200
what are you, what are you
hopeful about in the future?
563
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,760
Awesome.
Yeah, I think so too, by the
564
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,440
way.
I, I, I think the youth is
565
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,400
almost always the answer.
It's why, it's why I take, I
566
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:31,840
take my time to teach high
school English.
567
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,680
And, and I think that, I mean,
you know, I, I hope that
568
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,680
education really, really becomes
a lot more valuable in this
569
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,680
country and the notion of
respect for teachers and
570
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,320
educators and for people to kind
of desire to see the value of
571
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,200
the, of the youth in the future.
Yeah.
572
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,160
I really, I really, I, I think
that that's going to make the
573
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,080
difference when it, when it
comes to America succeeding or
574
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,280
not in the, in the, in the near
and long future.
575
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,720
But I am hopeful, like you, I, I
agree.
576
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,840
So, Nick, thank you so, so much
for making the time coming on.
577
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,720
I think that this was really a
lot of fun.
578
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,840
We clarified, I think a lot of
really interesting points that,
579
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,520
you know, people that are
listening, whether they'll agree
580
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,840
or disagree with.
I think this was very fair.
581
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,280
And I think this is really
intentional and eloquent.
582
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,400
So really, thank you so much for
such an amazing conversation.
583
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,240
Yeah, of course.
Then we'll be in touch.
584
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,680
Maybe we'll do this again
sometime soon.
585
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,720
All right, take care.
Bye.
00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,000
Welcome to another episode of
Come TOGETHER.
2
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,320
We're live.
Professor Nick Marks, welcome to
3
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,600
the show.
I'm so happy to have you here
4
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:20,320
today.
How are you?
5
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,160
Of course, of course.
I'm really excited to talk to
6
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280
you for a bunch of reasons.
Number one, you seem like a
7
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,720
really sweet and great dude bit
from our previous phone calls
8
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,320
and your willingness to work
with me this morning on despite
9
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,560
some technical issues.
And I'm also really excited
10
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,200
because I'm really interested in
the area that you research and
11
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,440
that you're largely researching,
which is really been the rise of
12
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,680
what I guess a lot of people
would call and certainly make a
13
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:56,080
strong argument for right wing
entertainment, film, media,
14
00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,640
whatever you want to call it.
But obviously seems to be on
15
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600
this enormous rise in the last
bunch of years.
16
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,480
And I'm, I'm really fascinated
in the research that you've been
17
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,680
doing and what you found.
And I'd love to just talk to you
18
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,920
and try to see if we can
understand the zeitgeist in
19
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:24,430
today's world a little bit.
Mm hmm.
20
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,360
Yeah.
How'd you get?
21
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:31,160
I want to, I would love to know
even just the open mindedness
22
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,400
of, of being willing to hear
that, you know, I know that, for
23
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,200
example.
And you know, I, I've been
24
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,800
trying very hard to kind of put
aside presuppositions that I've
25
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,160
had or things that I've been
taught my whole life and just
26
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,280
assumed we're real.
And then, you know, one thing at
27
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,120
a time kind of started
shattering a little bit.
28
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,800
And you know, it took me a
little bit of a little bit of
29
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,480
breaking my perception for me to
have the open mind to really
30
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,480
start exploring other avenues of
perspective.
31
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,160
What, what?
Let's see your open mindedness.
32
00:03:00,610 --> 00:04:16,060
Sure.
Yeah,
33
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:53,190
yeah.
Sure, sure.
34
00:04:54,310 --> 00:04:58,070
There's a lot there to unpack,
especially because, and I'm, you
35
00:04:58,070 --> 00:05:03,720
know, the world changes so
quickly today and it moves at
36
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,600
such a rapid pace that it feels
almost impossible to kind of
37
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,200
keep track of everything.
But one thing that I have
38
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,720
noticed is that your original
sentiment, you know, where the I
39
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,680
guess the root of a lot of this
comedy and a lot of this media
40
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,240
came from being pretty anti war
and sticking with pretty
41
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,360
historical, historically liberal
ideas is actually kind of where
42
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,480
we are today.
You know, when you look at the
43
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,080
top bunch of podcasts, if you
look at Theo Von and Rogan and
44
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,160
Danny Jones and, and all these
people, they're all pretty
45
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,560
against the war right now.
They've all been pretty
46
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,240
outspokenly against the war, you
know, the United States funding
47
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,000
the war against Ukraine and,
and, you know, and, and you've
48
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,760
seen the slide towards them kind
of, and this was this something
49
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,320
that happened with enormous
hesitancy.
50
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,640
You can see a real, real caution
against, against funding Israel
51
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,360
and their and their wars.
And and, and you know, and So
52
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,560
what, and so these people that
have been to store, you know,
53
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,800
that have been right for the
last, let's say 10 years or so
54
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,840
since Trump came down that
elevator in the in 2015 or 16 or
55
00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,320
whatever it was about 10 years
later.
56
00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,480
It almost feels like they kind
of they, they, they flip back.
57
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,600
It seems like their
sensibilities still seems pretty
58
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,440
consistent with those same
sensibilities.
59
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,480
Hey, everyone, real quick, if
you're enjoying the show, click
60
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,360
subscribe and rate the show. 5
stars helps a ton.
61
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,400
Thanks so much.
Abilities that got you involved
62
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:41,540
all those years ago.
Sure.
63
00:07:27,860 --> 00:08:28,880
Yeah.
So you think so you're, you're,
64
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,280
if I understand correctly, your
statement is that or your, your,
65
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,840
your, your observation rather
would be that they tend to be
66
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,120
right leaning with an occasional
reality check where they say,
67
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,160
hey, like, you know, we're not
sure we're on this.
68
00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:14,000
Sure, sure.
Sure.
69
00:09:29,290 --> 00:09:32,690
Right.
OK, I totally, I totally totally
70
00:09:32,690 --> 00:09:35,930
understand that.
I'm curious from the
71
00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:40,490
perspective, from your
perspective, I suppose, what do
72
00:09:40,490 --> 00:09:45,850
you think is so attractive
about, about these, you call
73
00:09:45,850 --> 00:09:49,400
them the manosphere, these
podcasters because I mean, the,
74
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,360
the range that they have, I
guess the amount of viewership
75
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,600
they have far exceeds what
anyone would call, you know, the
76
00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,760
institutionalized media.
And you know, and I and
77
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880
obviously I think it's pretty
clear that that that for a lot
78
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,960
of the youth, COVID really broke
a lot of people's perceptions of
79
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,640
institutions.
And what would be, you know,
80
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,600
considered, I guess late, you
know, the as like the 2000 tens,
81
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,280
2015 two thousand 20s, what was,
was considered to be social
82
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,760
norms kind of broke around COVID
time and there was this
83
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,680
explosion.
What do you what do you think
84
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,400
that it well, I I think it's
because because of a lot of
85
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,680
people feeling a lot down from
COVID.
86
00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:37,200
What do you think it was from
your perception?
87
00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:38,600
Sure.
Sure.
88
00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:55,790
Right.
So I, I've been following Rogan
89
00:12:55,790 --> 00:12:58,310
for a couple of years.
I don't remember when I started.
90
00:12:58,310 --> 00:13:01,190
I certainly did not start when I
was in, I graduated college.
91
00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:03,750
I was in Binghamton University,
upstate New York, around I, I
92
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:06,750
graduated 2017.
I don't think I ever really
93
00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:12,230
listened to Rogan until maybe
2022 or 2023.
94
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,520
And I found a lot of it to be
very refreshing on a personal
95
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:28,920
level for a number of reasons.
Number one was I felt like the
96
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,360
conversations didn't feel
scripted.
97
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,600
You know, it really did feel
authentic and really did feel
98
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,360
all the off the cuff.
And that was something that for
99
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,760
me, I thought we, I thought was
really, really valuable that in
100
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,480
the face of, you know, and it
happens to be that I am a pretty
101
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,920
anti authoritarian kind of guy
myself and pretty anti
102
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,400
establishment.
And that's kind of because I
103
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,920
never really fit into the
establishment lines, you know,
104
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,760
I'm a different type of shape, I
guess than the cookie cutter, I
105
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,000
suppose.
And I've always kind of felt a
106
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,600
little rejected, a little bit
like a misfit.
107
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,880
And so I found that this whole
universe over here kind of
108
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,800
appealed and spoke to, hey, you
know, I think there's a lot more
109
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160
misfits out there than what
people then then then are
110
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,080
actually articulating themselves
or are making themselves known.
111
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,520
And so that was kind of the
route that I really, that was
112
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,320
that was the first initial
branch that was really exciting
113
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,760
to me about it.
One thing I would like to, I do
114
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,200
want to push maybe back for a
little bit on is that Rogan
115
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:33,120
until the very, very end of 2020
to the end of the election, did
116
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,880
not ever publicly come out and
say that he was endorsing Trump.
117
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,280
He was he was, you know,
trashing on Kamala for sure and
118
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,160
definitely was trashing on Biden
for sure.
119
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,840
You know, there's no, I'm not
going to pretend that he was
120
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,040
impartial as far as that goes,
but it didn't seem like he was
121
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,240
fairly set on anyone.
And it felt like the sentiment
122
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,520
going around, or at least for
me, until Tulsi Gabbard came
123
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,480
over from the left side to to to
this to to the right.
124
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,800
And Elon Musk, who historically
had voted, I think left most of
125
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,840
his life came over and RFK
Junior until that until until it
126
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,760
felt like the there was a waking
up of a new political system.
127
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,440
Whereas it wasn't as much left
and right and more authoritarian
128
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,280
and establishment versus anti
establishment and anti
129
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,400
authoritarian and kind of
meaning to give these
130
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,880
institutions a little bit more
of a check than that.
131
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,880
Perhaps they've overreached in
some cases that to me at least,
132
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,000
and tell a lot of the people
that I've spoken to are the
133
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,160
people that you know, that have
a little bit more, I guess in
134
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,480
common.
As far as my background, my
135
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,520
education, my, my, my social
circles, we kind of have that in
136
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,000
common.
And I do feel like even till
137
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,640
today, right now, part of the
reason why I'm incredibly let
138
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,040
down by Trump's second, you
know, I, I didn't really follow
139
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,760
politics really in his first
presidency, but in his second
140
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,480
one, I've been incredibly let
down by all the by all the
141
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,320
broken promises and by the fact
that it felt like this was going
142
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,320
to be an enormously anti
establishment, quote UN quote,
143
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,960
drain the swamp type of his
presidency.
144
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,960
And it's been just the opposite.
But I but I would, I would
145
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:18,400
hesitate to point my finger to
the the media because you could
146
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,960
see that they have been pushing
back when the things that that
147
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,720
swung them right had had
actually never actually came to
148
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:36,120
to to to.
Fruition, OK.
149
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:56,640
Mm hmm, sure.
Sure.
150
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:41,160
Yeah.
Sure.
151
00:18:26,910 --> 00:18:33,110
Yeah, sure.
Jordan.
152
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:42,090
Peterson Yeah, that's when.
It slides a little out of
153
00:18:42,090 --> 00:20:21,490
control, right?
Yeah.
154
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:24,930
Can I ask maybe for some
clarification what your
155
00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:28,610
resistance to that individual
individuality in that sense is?
156
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:24,070
Sure,
sure.
157
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,280
Yeah, you know, it does.
And what's really interesting
158
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,480
about that, because I actually,
you know, when you say it like
159
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,280
that, it sounds, it sounds a lot
more palatable to me for sure.
160
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000
What, what I thought was
interesting because
161
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,040
historically, from my
understanding, and please
162
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,640
correct me if I don't, if I'm
wrong again, I'm, I'm pretty,
163
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,520
I'm pretty, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm
still getting into this.
164
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,520
So, you know, I, I don't want to
speak with too much with it,
165
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,160
with it, with it, with any kind
of air of authority, but my
166
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,160
understanding is that the left
had always been excellent at
167
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,640
historically kind of coming
together like unionizing and the
168
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,280
examples that you give or, or
making these kind of groups or
169
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,920
social events or demonstrations
or protests or even college
170
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,520
campuses.
You know, the one of my favorite
171
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,920
movies on Netflix is the trial
of the Chicago 7 and, and how
172
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,280
that, that that movie was just
was so dynamic and so and so
173
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,840
awesome.
And, and, and, and the premise
174
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,280
about, you know, in, in, in 68
or 69, where, where where the,
175
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,160
where the a bunch of anti war
protesters gathered in Chicago
176
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,120
by the you know, to, to, to to
protest the Democratic Party, I
177
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:44,640
believe, right.
They're, they're protesting
178
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,880
Democratic convention, I
believe.
179
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000
So they were, they were
protesting their own party very
180
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,480
similar to kind of how I guess
you could see how the, how war
181
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,120
is kind of ripping the right
apart at the moment.
182
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,600
But you know, and, and, and then
the steps that government takes
183
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,520
where you know, and, and, and
the question had what was, is
184
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,160
this the government's fault to
the people's fault?
185
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200
And the answer almost always is
that it's the government's
186
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,160
fault.
I feel like but.
187
00:23:55,010 --> 00:24:38,210
Yes.
Yeah, or the right.
188
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:39,810
No one knows what to do with
healthcare now.
189
00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:47,940
Sure.
Totally, totally, totally.
190
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:52,420
I, I, yeah, I, I want to, I want
to just make what make one
191
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:53,620
point.
And then I want to ask you
192
00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:56,700
another question real quick.
But, you know, in response to
193
00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:58,980
that, there was a really great,
you know, and I've been
194
00:25:58,980 --> 00:26:01,980
listening actually to Tim Dylan,
who I disagree with in some
195
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,140
places and then love in other
places.
196
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:06,580
You know, and he's also one of
these guys.
197
00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:09,880
It's very hard to pin down as
far as where he stands, but he
198
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,160
has he has.
He had this awesome ramble rant
199
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,080
episode where he was talking
about the fact that the, you
200
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,240
know, the life that we, the, the
rules of the world that we were
201
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,200
told that growing up in America
no longer feel like they really
202
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,800
apply to, I guess the generate,
you know, the generation that
203
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,360
was born in the 90s and, and on
in the sense that, you know,
204
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,680
we're told, work hard, get a
college degree.
205
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,320
You know, you'll get it.
You'll get a introductory job,
206
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,200
you know, you'll get a first
level job.
207
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,160
And then, you know, may not be a
ton, but you know, you'll be OK.
208
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,960
And then after a couple of
years, you'll save up, got a
209
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,200
down payment, get married, you
know, do whatever you're going
210
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800
to do.
And people are seeing that
211
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,120
there's no way that that could
happen.
212
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,400
You and I were talking off
camera about how expensive
213
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Florida's gone, how expensive
Seattle's gone or Washington,
214
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,560
the state of Washington or the
state of, of Colorado or a lot
215
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,040
of states in the country.
And, and I feel like people are,
216
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,280
are, you know, who have gone
through and, and my own friends
217
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,000
in my own, my own world.
I'm, I feel kind of lucky that I
218
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,720
was always, I never really fit
into this official box because I
219
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,520
don't know what it would have
happened if I had $150,000 of
220
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,560
debt from going to an out of
State College and going to grad
221
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,280
school and be drowning in it.
You know?
222
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240
I mean, I, I, I think that I
think that there, there is a
223
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,360
massive vacuum where there's
people's ideals and there's, you
224
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,000
know, there's where you would
hope and, or love the world to
225
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,760
be.
And then there is just people
226
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,160
that feel like they're just,
hey, I, I would love to care
227
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,360
about that, but I could barely
afford food.
228
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,160
And I don't know if I'm getting
laid off next week, you know,
229
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,200
and that, and that's a really,
really serious concern.
230
00:27:49,870 --> 00:28:25,660
Yeah.
Sure, sure.
231
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:40,440
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
232
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,320
And I'm not going to.
Yeah, this could go a lot of
233
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,720
places.
But I will say that even
234
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,400
anecdotally for myself, the only
way I'm 30 years old.
235
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,440
I've been working since I was
21, and I currently have two
236
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,640
jobs that pay me.
And then I do the podcast.
237
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,640
I teach high school English, I
do sales in the family business
238
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,520
where I sell medical equipment.
And the only way I was able to
239
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,800
afford a house was my blue
collar high school teacher slash
240
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,440
college professor in New Jersey
grandfather dying and leaving me
241
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240
just enough to be able to put
together a down payment.
242
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,160
But I've been working for 10
years to, you know, five years
243
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,360
of my second job and I'm, you
know, and I'm barely getting by
244
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,200
and I'm not trying.
And, you know, and it's not the
245
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,360
question of hard work or not.
It's a question of it's a
246
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
question of, you know, what's
what, what's considered viable
247
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320
and what are the expectations
for society.
248
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,760
And the expectations are, hey,
you know, maybe you don't need a
249
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,480
home.
Hey, guess what, you know, maybe
250
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520
maybe you know, putting dump
payment down and owning your
251
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,000
home for 100 years and passing
it on to your kids is overrated.
252
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,440
And I don't know if that's
necessarily the answer that
253
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,480
people are are, you know, want
to hear for sure.
254
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,480
I, I want to, I want to, if you
don't mind, I want to just pivot
255
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,880
a little bit to the
individuality conversation right
256
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,840
now, because I think that
another sign of the left, you
257
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,640
know, this was what was
interesting that, you know, the
258
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,880
Part 1 was the organizational
structure, but Part 2 was really
259
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,800
a very strong sense of
individuality.
260
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,720
I'm a, I'm a sixties 70s hippie
fan junkie really.
261
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,960
And you know, I love that whole
counterculture world and it it
262
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,280
it's really the world of what
you would call defiance of the
263
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,520
society around you makes you
kind of want to feel like an
264
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,160
individual, you know, And I
think that part of what the
265
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,160
uprising of this right right
wing media that that we're
266
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,280
describing the libertarian
leaning media or the comedic
267
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,360
media that we've been describing
like, again, Trump, every clip
268
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,680
that I've seen of Trump in the
last couple of months, despite
269
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,360
how serious the world seems, it
kind of feels like he's making a
270
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,800
joke out of a lot of what's
going on.
271
00:31:40,800 --> 00:32:01,530
And you know,
he's a showman.
272
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,680
Totally, totally.
And I think that for and and I
273
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,000
think that for a lot of people
we had and you know, perhaps you
274
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,280
would disagree.
I don't know what your
275
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,720
perception is on this, but I
would say from like the early
276
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:25,840
2000 tens till maybe the end of
Biden's presidency was the stage
277
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,920
of of there.
There was a lot of very powerful
278
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:36,560
left-leaning institutions that I
think like what you said at the
279
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,880
beginning and you know, and, and
we could discuss the extent of
280
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,240
quote UN quote, free speech
into, you know, to what extent
281
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,080
that that is permissible or
what, what falls under free
282
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,560
speech or not.
I think a lot of people did feel
283
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,360
like they had the need to self
censor.
284
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,360
And a lot of people did feel
like they could not say what
285
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,760
they wanted to say for a long
time out of fear of losing their
286
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,200
job or fear of someone pulling
up a, a tweet or a Facebook post
287
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,360
from 10-15 years ago and then
and then demanding that they get
288
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,000
fired for, for, for such a
thing.
289
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,080
And so I think that a lot of
people that were historic, that,
290
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,360
that, that felt like, and again,
to the, you know, that, that,
291
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,640
that historically had the
ability to express themselves,
292
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,280
felt like they were being pushed
down a little bit or compressed
293
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,000
or suffocated.
And that's kind of what led to,
294
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880
and, and I think that and like
Trump's second campaign, say
295
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,800
what you will, was incredible.
The amount of the the he it went
296
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,560
from, and again, I'll speak
anecdotally from my own
297
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,800
experience.
If I met someone in the street
298
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,280
in Miami and I was going on a
road trip while I was doing
299
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,920
whatever I was doing in my life
and I was traveling quite a bit
300
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,760
at that point in my life.
And I would be afraid to bring
301
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,440
up the name Trump in a
conversation.
302
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,720
Like whenever you talk about
politics, like the name Donald
303
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,520
Trump was like considered taboo,
like he who must not be named.
304
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440
And and then something broke
about that.
305
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,440
Something really something
shattered.
306
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,400
And it almost felt like the
society as a whole or American
307
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Society as a whole or a lot of
it wanted to throw off this the
308
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,679
this yoke of fear of speaking.
I'm curious what your thoughts
309
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,800
are on that and how.
Because historically
310
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,840
individuality was always
associated with the left, but
311
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,199
now it almost felt like the last
10-15 years they were trying to
312
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,960
stifle other people from being
self expressive.
313
00:34:32,360 --> 00:35:15,230
Sure.
Cool,
314
00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:57,220
right?
Yes.
315
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:48,400
Sure.
Right.
316
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,720
Yeah, that's really and I and I
think do you think that's
317
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,720
changing?
Do you think that you think
318
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,080
that's going to do you think
that the left has, you know,
319
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,800
because again, and, and also,
like you mentioned earlier,
320
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,160
these terms, I feel like are
becoming a little bit less and
321
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,360
less relevant as far as like
left and right and more, you
322
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,800
know, was authoritarian or
institutional.
323
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,240
Or I mean, the way, the way that
Rokahana calls it or Thomas
324
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,320
Massie call it the Epstein
class, as in like this top, top,
325
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,000
top tier of, and I do want to
talk a little bit about that.
326
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,760
But the top, top, top tier of,
of this, of the echelons of
327
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,840
society don't seem to be playing
by any rules.
328
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,200
And I think, and they seem to be
making all these decisions on
329
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,600
the behalf of of a lot of people
that don't want this.
330
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,360
You know, I mean, the left
didn't want it.
331
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,840
They didn't vote for Trump.
The right vote didn't want it.
332
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,840
They voted for Trump because
they didn't want a lot of what
333
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,320
was going on.
And it seems to be happening
334
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,680
anyway.
So it almost feels like there's
335
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,080
a like a dissolving of general
parties and more going to be
336
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,560
some kind of reckoning of this
ultra elite versus the populist
337
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:13,800
everyday people.
Sure.
338
00:38:45,160 --> 00:39:18,130
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure.
339
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:59,100
Do you think it's a good thing
or do you think that's a neutral
340
00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:00,700
thing or do you think that's
just cyclical?
341
00:40:12,970 --> 00:41:08,350
I see.
Yeah, Yeah, I would love to talk
342
00:41:08,350 --> 00:41:11,310
to you now because I mean, I'm,
I'm, I love the entertainment
343
00:41:11,310 --> 00:41:14,470
world and I've been following
the entertainment world for a
344
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:16,150
couple of years, for a bunch of
years now.
345
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:18,350
And you know, I love reading
about these companies, about
346
00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,630
Disney and Paramount and Netflix
and you know, the background
347
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:24,390
into what goes into the decision
making of how things work and
348
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:31,120
the business aspects of things.
And you have, oh man, I'm going
349
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,800
to say these things even though
I'm sure I'm going to get in
350
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,200
trouble for them.
I don't really care anymore.
351
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:38,480
I, you know, Glenn Greenwald is
a journalist.
352
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:44,480
I'm sure you're familiar with
who is it's funny.
353
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,800
His reputation is as a left as a
lefty.
354
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,720
He has historically been very in
general pro speech.
355
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:55,520
He was famous for breaking the
Snowden case and from meeting
356
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,120
Snowden with, you know, when he,
when he was, and you know, I
357
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,520
don't even know if you want to
get into Snowden or not, but you
358
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,080
know, anyway, he, he, he, he
said a lot of, he said he, he,
359
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,640
he's pretty controversial, even
though he is extremely eloquent
360
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,760
and intelligent.
And it does really, I think I
361
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,080
think he's very fair.
If I if you listen to him
362
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,120
through it is very credible
reporting and and he does a lot
363
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:24,440
of talking about the influence
of of Israel over American media
364
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,920
in the sense that the Ellison
family has been buying TikTok
365
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,120
and buying CBS and now in about
Paramount and is now in the
366
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,800
midst of it looks like they're
going to get the Warner Brothers
367
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,400
company or the library.
I know that they were fighting
368
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,840
with Netflix about it.
And I know.
369
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,040
And one thing that this Trump
2.0 administration seems to have
370
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,080
no limit to is how many favors
they're willing to give out to
371
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,400
friends of theirs.
And you know, you wonder how you
372
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,920
know what you wonder about, you
know, Ellison's relationship to
373
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,200
Trump as opposed to Netflix's
relationship to him.
374
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,400
And you know, why, why the why
the Warner Brothers deal ended
375
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,520
up the way it did.
But what do you what do you kind
376
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,720
of observe about the landscape?
Because like you said, it is
377
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:08,520
shifting, right?
Do you are people noticing this?
378
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,280
Is this, is this something
that's in the zeitgeist or is
379
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,280
this kind of happening quietly
behind the scenes?
380
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:54,770
You think
OK.
381
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,480
For most fun in Gopi for one
year old Bharatiya Manoj
382
00:44:01,560 --> 00:45:32,320
Bajrangi bhaiyya Ki bhiwati.
Yeah, it is.
383
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,680
But I, I mean, and perhaps I
mean, I, I think on the flip
384
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,520
side of that, the potential hope
is that so much technology has
385
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,480
democratized the, you know, the
people's ability.
386
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,880
YouTube, there's a great podcast
I listen to called the Town with
387
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,120
a gentleman, Matthew Bellamy,
who's an awesome reporter and
388
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,640
lawyer.
Yeah, I love that podcast.
389
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,400
And, and, and he and he's
awesome.
390
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,680
And and, and they do they, they,
they do great coverage.
391
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,360
I am just losing my train of
thought over here again, just
392
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,400
thinking about that.
I'm sorry, but shoot, what was
393
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,680
that?
What was that last point that we
394
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,040
were discussing that?
Oh, sorry, so democracy YouTube
395
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,680
takes up such a massive portion
of like Netflix can't keep up
396
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,200
with YouTube.
Disney can't keep up with
397
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,080
YouTube.
No one can keep up with YouTube.
398
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,280
And YouTube is democratized
information, you know, and like
399
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,000
anyone kind of post whatever
they want and become as big as
400
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,920
they want and think about how
big Mr. Beast is relative to a
401
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,200
lot of whole corporations, the
whole institutions, you know.
402
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,360
And so I think that there, I
think that there there's hope.
403
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,280
I think that similar to the kind
of sense that film was always a
404
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,880
little, you know, movies were
always a little stuck up about
405
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,040
not doing television and
television kind of, you know,
406
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,120
swept in and they and they
really took the landscape by
407
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,440
storm.
It looks like that this is even
408
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,240
transitioning even more from
formal studio settings to judge,
409
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,520
Hey, you got a great iPhone.
You have awesome technology.
410
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,680
All you need is a couple of good
apps and some AI and you're
411
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,760
working together and you're
making this incredible app and,
412
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,400
and you could make a cultural
and, you know, impact and you
413
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,880
could have a, have a, have a say
in what people, people perceive
414
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,920
society.
And I think that's really
415
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,160
wonderful.
And, you know, and I think that
416
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,320
as time goes on, you know,
you'll, you'll, you'll have
417
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,840
people that are, be like, Hey,
you know, the, the, the, the age
418
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,000
group, the age of people that
watch Fox or MSNBC or CNN is, I
419
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,160
think on average above 65.
It's not going to be too long
420
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,960
before you have people that are
streaming and doing the same
421
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,640
thing.
And then everyone, I, I had a
422
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,600
babysitter.
I have a three-year old.
423
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,680
I, I had, I had a babysitter
come for a couple hours and I
424
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,520
walked back in the house and the
TV was off and, and, and this
425
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,440
girl was on her phone.
I said, did you not watch
426
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,440
anything when we were gone?
And she's like, no, I never
427
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,320
watch TVII watch everything on
my phone, right?
428
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,280
You know, and I was like, that
is, it's crazy to me, you know,
429
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,400
but that's the world we're
heading to.
430
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,240
Yeah, I, I, I, I hear you.
I think that, I think that even
431
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,040
if you were to do with it
within, like, listen, I, you
432
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,880
know, there's certain podcasts
that are productions, you know,
433
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,440
and I guess would you, would you
make the argument, for example,
434
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,040
that something like Diary of
Aceo or, you know, any of these
435
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,240
very produced shows that they
listen, they're obviously A-Team
436
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,920
and there's obviously, you know,
a collective effort going on.
437
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:14,680
What I the only thing that kind
of is a little disconcerting for
438
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,680
me, just the way that I'm, I'm
processing this and it could be
439
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,280
that you're not even meaning to
say it like this, is that I, I
440
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,640
feel like there's a danger to
stifling individuality.
441
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,560
And when you stifle
individuality, people don't do
442
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,920
well emotionally or in
relationships or, or mental
443
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,760
health as far as their mental
health is concerned.
444
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,240
And so like, I know for myself
that, you know, I have AI have a
445
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,080
balance between personal
responsibility and community
446
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,400
effort.
You know, I'm part of a, you
447
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,240
know, I mean, as an Orthodox
Jew, there's a collective
448
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:48,880
congregation that I'm part of
and, you know, there's a
449
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,960
community that I'm part of it.
Everyone helps support
450
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,240
everything.
I mean, we bought the, you know,
451
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,480
and, and everyone collectively
pitched in and we bought a
452
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,800
little house that everyone is
kind of helping.
453
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,840
One guy's a plumber and one
guy's a contractor and one guy's
454
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,320
a handyman.
And everyone's kind of pitching
455
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,840
in and, and bringing what they
have to the table to make
456
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,440
something really, really
beautiful.
457
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,040
And what the word I use is
emergent, you know, where the
458
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,760
sum of its whole, the sum of the
total parts are way bigger than
459
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,960
the individual components.
Are you pushing more for that?
460
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Are you saying that there's
something, you know, there's
461
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,640
something that you think is
scary about the actual process
462
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,640
of being an individual and
meritocracy like that?
463
00:51:39,520 --> 00:52:14,730
Yes.
Hell yeah.
464
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:53,340
Yeah.
I got you.
465
00:52:54,340 --> 00:53:18,400
Sure.
I really hope so.
466
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,800
I, I think I tend to agree.
I really do.
467
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,320
I have to think about that a
little bit more because on one
468
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,120
hand, I, on one hand, what
you're saying sounds and you
469
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,360
know, like it really speaks to
me and it really speaks to, you
470
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,280
know, the sentiment that I've,
that I feel like I would vouch
471
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,080
for and that I would, I would
articulate.
472
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:45,040
On the other hand, I think that
and I don't know what I think
473
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,040
that and maybe this is just me,
insecurity kind of causes
474
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,840
motivation for me.
You know, I'm not, I find that,
475
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,240
you know, for example, there's
one week, maybe a month or two
476
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:01,560
ago where everything was just
flowing, you know, and I do
477
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,000
sales.
So I'm relatively Commission
478
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,720
based and you know, I have a
small base and then whatever I
479
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:08,640
close on, I make a percentage
of.
480
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,200
And there was one week where I
had great podcasts lined up.
481
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,640
Everything worked out and sales
were going great and the house
482
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,640
felt good.
And my, you know, my family was
483
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,480
getting along and everyone was
happy with one another.
484
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,280
And I was like, man, like, is
this what it feels like to have,
485
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,480
you know, to have it made?
And then like a week later,
486
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,920
everything kind of collapsed
because I got comfortable to the
487
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,160
point where I start where I
didn't do any preventive
488
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,640
maintenance.
I didn't feel like I had that
489
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,160
kind of fire under my butt to
keep me to keep me going.
490
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:42,680
Now I now fortunately, and I'm,
I'm in a, I'm sure a different
491
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:43,960
situation than most of the
world.
492
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,280
And in the sense that, you know,
even if I am stressed out, like,
493
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,800
you know, OK, like, you know,
they really, I don't have food
494
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,680
insecurity in the way that
you're describing.
495
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,760
I don't really have housing
insecurity in the way that
496
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,920
you're describing.
And I think that we do really
497
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,720
need that.
And so, you know, I, I do, I
498
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:05,320
definitely don't want to, to
negate that, especially just
499
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,040
based on my own anecdotal
experience.
500
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,240
On the other hand, I think a lot
of people would say that, you
501
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,880
know, humans do need motivation
in general and humans do.
502
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,520
And by the way, it could just be
the script that we're, that
503
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,320
we're given.
For example, you know, I think
504
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,600
that there's, you know, when
someone says, are you
505
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,000
successful, there's a million
ways that that could manifest.
506
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,600
But the reason with the
interpretation that 90% of
507
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,480
society would probably tell you
or more is does that mean you
508
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,960
have a lot of money?
You know, and I certainly do not
509
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,840
perceive success to be that way.
So maybe it's just a change, a
510
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,360
shift in the way that we look at
things.
511
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,720
And, and I actually do look
forward to a post capital
512
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,000
capitalistic society in this
sense, with short term earnings
513
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,280
driving everything.
And being we had a place where
514
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,920
we're technologically and
financially and socially, or I
515
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,880
guess even just those two
technology and financially
516
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:04,600
comfortable enough that we could
turn the efforts of, you know,
517
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,640
our goals and society to
something more humanitarian like
518
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,160
relationships or adventure or,
you know, or, or something like
519
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,160
that where you could say, Hey,
are you successful?
520
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,880
And successful means I got to
the, I got to Mars, you know?
521
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,400
And like, that'd be so much
better than making $5,000,000,
522
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:58,600
whatever it is.
Yeah.
523
00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:18,650
Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't
agree more.
524
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:21,330
And I look for, you know, and I
mean, I think that we're really,
525
00:57:21,410 --> 00:57:23,850
and, you know, I guess from an
economic perspective, I think
526
00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:26,690
we're rapidly approaching a
point where either there's going
527
00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:31,360
to be an enormous collapse or I
think that what a lot of people
528
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,440
are counting on is the wealth
and the abundance that AI,
529
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,560
robotics and potentially nuclear
energy will, will help provide
530
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,280
that.
We'll say, you know, even though
531
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,480
we're in such an economic hole,
the amount of wealth that's
532
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,560
going to be created from this is
so overwhelming that it wouldn't
533
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,680
even matter.
And you know, I, I, you know, if
534
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,320
you were to ask me if you were
like, hey, you're running the,
535
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,360
the show and you know, here,
here's the situation you're in.
536
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,960
I'll be like, I don't know if I
like, if I like that idea of
537
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,880
like staking everything on like
maybe AI being a hero, you know,
538
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,960
but, but apparently that's the
trajectory we're heading down
539
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,720
one way or the other.
So whether I like it or not, it
540
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,200
thinks, I think that that's the
world we're in.
541
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,360
Can, can you, have you done any
kind of work?
542
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,400
Can you speak at all about any
of these platforms like Rumble
543
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:33,080
or like these alternatives to
the typical mainstream platforms
544
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,720
that people use to consume
media?
545
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,320
And you know what, like their
trajectory of success because,
546
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,520
you know, I feel the the need
for, you know, the need that
547
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:51,600
created a website like Rumble,
for example, doesn't largely
548
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,160
exist to the same extent.
People aren't getting tossed off
549
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,760
of social media the same way.
And you know, there's a million
550
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,800
different reasons why and I
don't really care to get into
551
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,200
them at the moment.
But what do you think about
552
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,560
those alternative platforms?
And do you think that there's
553
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,600
that there that there's room for
them to survive?
554
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,200
And what do you think about them
in general?
555
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,320
No problem.
I guess.
556
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,000
You know, I'm sorry.
And I know that because we
557
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,360
started late, I'm going to have
to get off sooner than I wanted.
558
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,920
Yeah, I wanted to actually ask.
I I do.
559
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,880
I always like to try to end
things on a positive and
560
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,240
constructive note.
You know, even if you point out
561
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,680
any kind of issues that we might
have as a side of your world,
562
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,200
what are you, what are you
hopeful about in the future?
563
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,760
Awesome.
Yeah, I think so too, by the
564
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,440
way.
I, I, I think the youth is
565
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,400
almost always the answer.
It's why, it's why I take, I
566
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:31,840
take my time to teach high
school English.
567
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,680
And, and I think that, I mean,
you know, I, I hope that
568
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,680
education really, really becomes
a lot more valuable in this
569
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,680
country and the notion of
respect for teachers and
570
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,320
educators and for people to kind
of desire to see the value of
571
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,200
the, of the youth in the future.
Yeah.
572
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,160
I really, I really, I, I think
that that's going to make the
573
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,080
difference when it, when it
comes to America succeeding or
574
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,280
not in the, in the, in the near
and long future.
575
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,720
But I am hopeful, like you, I, I
agree.
576
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,840
So, Nick, thank you so, so much
for making the time coming on.
577
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,720
I think that this was really a
lot of fun.
578
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,840
We clarified, I think a lot of
really interesting points that,
579
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,520
you know, people that are
listening, whether they'll agree
580
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,840
or disagree with.
I think this was very fair.
581
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,280
And I think this is really
intentional and eloquent.
582
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,400
So really, thank you so much for
such an amazing conversation.
583
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,240
Yeah, of course.
Then we'll be in touch.
584
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,680
Maybe we'll do this again
sometime soon.
585
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,720
All right, take care.
Bye.