Entertainment 11: Marc DiPaolo / Superheroes and Politics / Spider-Man’s Evolving Politics

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together

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and we're live.
Mark, I'm so happy to have you

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on the show.
Welcome.

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Oh, thank you.
It's good to be here.

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Yeah, so I I came across your
name, like I mentioned in my

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e-mail when I reached out
reading superheroes movies in

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the state, which has been a lot
of fun for me to read.

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And honestly, I was reading and
it felt like a book long college

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essay that I could have written,
you know, like it was written a

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very scholarly and very formal
manner, but it was really,

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really cool.
And I saw some of your work site

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and I googled you and I and I
saw some of some of your, some

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of your work.
And I, and I figured that we'd

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have a fun time talking.
And I wanted to kind of dive

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more into, you know, the
research that you've done and

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how you ended up pursuing this.
Because this looks like

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honestly, like a pat, like like
a nerd's dream come true, is

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honestly what it what it, what
it feels like from one nerd to

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the next.
I feel like I'm really lucky and

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that I am one of the few people
who've made his hobby his job,

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and that I just enjoy everything
I do because I'm lucky.

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And that I finally matched with
very good students and the like,

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the kinds of interest in ethics,
exploration through fiction and

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music and art and things like
that.

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And so I help the students with
finding out their identities and

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understanding American culture
and, and I get to write about my

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favorite topics and I'm even
beginning to dabble and not just

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commenting on other people's
stuff, but producing my own

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stuff.
So I wrote like a memoir and I'm

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trying to write a witches versus
Nazis novel.

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So I just get to play and be a
dad.

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And so I feel like one of the
luckiest people I know.

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And I just, I only feel bad and
that I want everybody else to be

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as happy as me.
I love that, I love that, and I

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appreciate that because I have a
similar sentiment, especially,

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you know, with the podcast or I
teach high school English and I

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do a lot of things just because
I love it and like, I can't

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imagine not doing it.
And then, and I'm hoping and,

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and really, I've interviewed,
thankfully, a lot of really

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interesting creatives and
authors and researchers and a

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lot of them have all say the
same story that like we just had

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a passion and we just, we, we
didn't even mean to kind of turn

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into a job or a career.
You just kept on trying to

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pursue your passion to the best
that you could just whatever in

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to the extent that it interested
you in the way that you could

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really learn to creatively
manifest something, you know,

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whether it's a class or a book
or, or, or, or, or a lab or

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whatever.
And you do, and like and like

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and like.
All of a sudden, like you just

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wake up and 20 years have gone
by and you're a professional,

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you know, and like you've been,
you've done right.

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Well, you know, when you're
growing up and you want to do

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something sort of impractical or
artistic, your family members

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like, why don't you do something
practical and do it on the side?

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And your fear is that like, no,
I'm never going to find the time

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to do it on the side.
But the nice thing if you're

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involved in education or
journalism, you know, there's

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this.
You can sneeringly say, you

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know, every reporter's got a
novel manuscript in their drawer

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that isn't published or, and you
could be negative about it, but

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I mean, to go to get a doctorate
and teach college, you have to

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write a book.
And that was the thing of the OK

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Sure.
Oh, and I need to pick a topic.

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And I was scared to do Jane
Austen even though my field was

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British lit because I'm like,
oh, I'm some New York Italian

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guy.
I don't know anything about

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being a British woman in the
Regency period.

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I better do Spider Man because I
understand Spider Man.

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He's a New Yorker.
He's got my sense of humor.

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He's got my taste in redheads.
But my, my brother, some of the

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best advice he ever gave me was
he was like, you're surrounded

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by these professors.
You're in a college environment.

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Do your best writing about Jane
Austen.

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And I did.
But once I felt the authority to

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write about something I was
nervous to write about just by

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doing the research, then I was
like, even with all my teaching

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responsibilities, like, OK,
well, I wrote about Jane Austen.

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It should be easy to write about
Spider Man now.

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And I and then I then it became
fun, you know?

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So I just needed to be shown the
process and dragged through it.

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I feel that too.
I feel, I mean, you know, and

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it's interesting, even with this
podcast and I really, and it's

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something that I've, that I've
felt I really truly want to be

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my own.
And I don't want it to be, you

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know, like I, I'm a
professional, a lot of other

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aspects of my life and I want
this to be my creation.

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I want this really to be my done
my way.

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And I still find myself holding
myself back from different tones

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or different jokes or even
different guests that I would

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have pursued hypothetically.
And, and it's because I, I, I,

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I've got something in my head as
to like, Oh, what's this going

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to sound like?
And I have, and there are times

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where I free myself from it, but
it takes a lot of courage, it

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takes a lot of work.
Oh, and I can only be totally

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free under certain circumstances
and I have had consequences for

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it.
Like I I saw Die Hard an

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impressionable age.
And the moral I got from Die

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Hard is if your wife gets a job
out of state, you follow her.

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So my wife's got a job out of
state and I followed her and I

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was unemployed for a while, even
though I was on the road to get

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tenure at a Catholic college.
And I was like, OK, I'm

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unemployed.
Let me finish that book on

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superhero politics that I've
been meaning to write that I

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didn't have time to cause of all
my teaching because I'm

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unemployed.
And it wasn't my fault.

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So I didn't have that depression
of the fired person.

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So I just was able to do in four
months what was taking me years

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as a teacher between jobs.
And part of me thought I'd never

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get another teaching job.
Like I shot myself in the foot.

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They're rare, and I also was
sort of recovering from 911, and

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superhero comic books did a
better job explaining to me

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about why 911 happened than the
news, which was interesting.

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What would you ask me?
Your experience?

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What?
How old were you at that point

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or what was going on in your
life?

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Yeah, let's see.
Well, I was born in 76 and so

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whatever the math is for 2001, I
was still a few months.

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I wouldn't meet my wife for
another like, year.

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And but basically I was living
in Staten Island.

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I was working on my PhD.
And I just like, I don't want to

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write about politics.
I'm sort of a centrist.

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I'm confused.
I don't understand it.

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I like Jane Austen because she
was funny.

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And I didn't want to read about
the British Empire because I'm

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like, no, I just like funny
people, you know?

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And then 9/11 happened.
I was like, OK, I kind of can't

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avoid learning about
colonialism.

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Like this is a whole thing.
And what was interesting was

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Spider Man.
I always relate to him in so

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many levels.
And one what thing I noticed

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only after 911 is he's got these
two streaks. 1 is really

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conservative in some ways and
really liberal in other ways.

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And he's confused.
And I think it's because he was

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bullied in high school.
Like I was Sue's genius STEM

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major was bullied.
And so when he gets superpowers,

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he's got this first instinct is
to be a bigger bully.

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He's like, I'm going to go beat
up those bullies and I'm going

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to become a professional
wrestler.

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And he's like a jerk.
And he loves like Ann Rand and

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he's really right wing.
And then his uncle dies and his

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uncle's like with great power
comes great responsibility.

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And he's one of those old
working class white union guys

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who's like an FDR type first and
foremost.

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And so he's got this ghost of
FDR, Uncle Ben on his shoulder

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saying be nice to vulnerable
people.

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So his first instincts to be a
jerk.

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But the ghost makes him keeps
him honest and he winds up

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rescuing all the people he hates
the most, like Jonah Jameson.

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I'm like, what a great
character.

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Like he's sort of in hell.
Like he's got to act against his

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nature.
And because he's like that, he

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really wants respectability.
So in the comics, Iron Man at

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when he's like 30-40, he's been
broke for decades, he gets an

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opportunity to work for Iron
Man, who's a scientist and

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become wealthy and popular like
Robert.

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Yeah, he takes it.
And he's like, and Iron Man's

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like, oh, there's been some
superhero disasters.

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I want to force everybody to
unmask on TV and work for SHIELD

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because we can't have Unreal
like regulated superheroes.

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And Spider Man does it for the
respectability, unmasks, he

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tells everybody.
I'm Peter Parker.

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That's the that's, that's civil
war, right?

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That's the root of civil war.
That's the Civil War story in

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the comic books.
That's the version there.

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And all the superheroes hate
Spider Man because he caved.

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And so it's Captain America's
like, this is going to lead to

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some weird stuff.
And he refused to do it.

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Even though everybody knows who
Steve Rogers is.

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He's like, I want to protect
people's right to be anonymous.

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And what starts to happen is
super villains who don't mind

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outing themselves start working
for SHIELD and superheroes who

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do like some get arrested, not
tried and put in a prison in

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another dimension.
And they also accidentally kill

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Ant Man.
So Spider Man sees all this and

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he's like, am I on the wrong
side?

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And he flips and he goes to
Captain America's side and

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everybody hates him on both
sides because he changed his

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mind.
And the only person because

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because for Iron Man, he
betrayed him and Iron Man was

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protecting him and he took his
hand of protection off.

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And the first thing that happens
is the Kingpin shoots Aunt May,

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you know, And so he takes pays a
big price.

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And my favorite line, like in
any comic ever is Falcon says to

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Spider Man, wow, you joined our
side.

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You've done things that nobody
in America does.

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You've you've said I was wrong
politically and you changed your

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mind.
He's like, I'm sorry, I was

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wrong as the hardest sentence in
the English language.

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And Spider Man's like, no, no,
no, the hardest sentence in the

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English languages.
What are you doing with my wife?

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And I was just like, and so I
read that, and I was like, after

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911, I was like, oh, national
security, maybe we should let

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the Patriot Act go through,
which is what's the Civil War

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was about.
It was the Patriot Act.

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And I was like, or maybe not.
Maybe, maybe we should risk

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another terrorist attack but
still have freedom in this

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country.
Yeah.

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And so I was confused.
And watching Spider Man change

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his mind made me change my mind.
And that was the inspiration for

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the book.
I love that.

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I love that.
I love that whole story.

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Can you explain real quickly
just the Patriot Act and what

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the consequences, the subsequent
consequences were an R to today

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and I didn't even know.
The truth is I'm I'm I just

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turned 30 a couple months ago.
So I was 7 or 8 when 911

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happened.
I don't know much and I am

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certain I've only really really
become aware of the modern pub

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history, political, regional, as
far as military, whatever it is

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within the last year or two.
And I think that a lot of

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people, especially my age and
younger, don't know a lot about

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it.
So if you want to actually, do

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you want to like maybe provide a
little bit of context to fill in

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a little bit of the, of the
details there to kind of explain

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how the, because the superheroes
have been for the last 2530

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years or more really for the
last 100 years since they

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started writing them, been a
reflection of, of the, of the

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times and the, and the, and the
conflicts that are going on in

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society, like you mentioned.
So, you know, maybe just we

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could start with the Patriot Act
and, and what you were, what

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were your thoughts at the time
politically and, and, and, and

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with with, with regarding the
Patriot Act and war?

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I want to help people out here
by talking briefly quick about

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the Civil War movie that was
made more recently, because

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that's what people are going to
know.

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And for them, Spider Man never
defected from Iron Man to

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Captain America.
That's something that Black

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Widow did.
So but they basically just gave

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Spider Man's role from the comic
to Black Widow in the movie.

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But enough time passed from the
comic and then making Civil War

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into a movie put it in a
different political context and

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nobody knew what the heck the
Patriot Act was.

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To the point where in the comic
it's pretty clear Iron Man's the

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Republican and Captain America
is the guy who's too liberal to

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be an establishment Democrat,
right?

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Whereas a lot of folks will
watch Civil War and say Captain

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America is a libertarian and
Iron Man's a Democrat who

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believes in regulation and
superheroes are guns and it's a

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gun control story.
Oh, interesting.

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And I was like, oh, that's a
legit reading.

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And I think part of what opens
that up is this sort of idea

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that he rejects the UN watching,
which I have a harder time with.

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I don't have a hard time with
him being skeptical of authority

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after he found out Hydra
infiltrated SHIELD.

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Yeah.
I have a little bit of a hard

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time with him being against the
UN in general.

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So yeah, that's the.
Well, yeah, they like, at least

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their hearts in the right place.
They just never managed to stop

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a genocide, you know?
But.

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But yeah, like, in theory,
they're better than like,

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SHIELD, you know, or George W
Bush.

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So like, yeah, that's what
people know.

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And what was funny was when
Obama was president, people

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thought the civil war was about
Obama forcing people to buy

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private healthcare.
Really.

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And I was like, I was like,
that's a weird interpret that

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never worked for me.
Like that's.

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How they explain how did how?
What's the relationship there?

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Because if it's a law that
forces everybody to behave the

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same way, you know, that's
something the when the

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Republicans talk about being the
party of freedom, they'll say

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all the Democrat laws and want a
nationalized election to make

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sure everybody has the right to
vote, but that's interfering.

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Or they want to nationalize
reproductive rights, but that's

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interfering with religious
people.

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Or they want to, you know, so
for them, the party of freedom

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is the ability to say no.
So which means Captain America

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00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,600
saying no, which means he's
Republican and that Iron Man's

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00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,360
Obama and he's pushing
healthcare.

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I get it.
But it it didn't, it didn't

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work.
It was weird.

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00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,960
And that just tells you that
every 10 years people going to

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have a different take on it.
But it's very much the law that

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you usually see in the X-Men
comics where they want to track

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mutants, write their powers
down, get their addresses.

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And that all starts to feel a
lot like, you know, ICE

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cataloging immigrants and things
like that.

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And I think that's more what
this Civil War superhero

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registration act was like, this
fear that once you make a list,

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it can become an enemies list
that can become people who are

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jailed.
That could become a purge, you

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know, and there's not going to
be trials because they're not

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real citizens.
Or which the new Superman movie

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did too.
So like but.

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Yeah, sorry.
Go ahead, please.

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00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,240
I haven't answered your question
about the Patriot Act, but you

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00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,880
but we can go back to that if
you want to follow that thread

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00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,000
for a minute, but.
Yeah, sure.

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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,280
Let's follow that thread.
Go for it.

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00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,160
OK, so like the pay track was
weird because 911 happened and I

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00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,560
knew it was going to happen
because I was a reporter and we

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had been attacked once, maybe
twice before.

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Then a battleship, I think
called the coal was sank.

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00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,120
And Osama bin Laden said Osama
bin Laden and LED this sort of

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terrorist organization, and he
was angry at U.S. policy in the

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Middle East, and so he would
attack us.

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00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,960
He sank the ship.
And he said that my next target

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is on mainland America.
And I was a reporter for a

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little newspaper in Staten
Island.

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So I called the Secret Service,
and I said, what are you guys

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doing to prevent the mainland
attack?

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00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,480
And they said your newspaper is
a little newspaper, so we don't

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00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,920
have to talk to you.
So I was like, OK, Oh, well.

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00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,520
So when the planes flew into the
World Trade Center, I thought,

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00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,240
oh, this was the thing I, in my
small way, tried to prevent by

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00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,400
calling the Secret Service, and
I didn't get anywhere.

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00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,600
So we kind of knew it was
coming.

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00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,520
Bill Clinton know it was coming.
He tried to kill bin Laden with

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a strike in Afghanistan.
And the Republicans said he's

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00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,240
not a threat.
You're just doing this to get

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people to stop thinking about
the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal.

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00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,840
Well, he had.
He had a history of working with

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00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,080
America prior to that, during
the Cold War, against Afghan,

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00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,160
against the Russians, against
the USSR, I guess.

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00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,200
Right, there's all these kind of
people we armed wind up using

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00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,400
the guns against us.
Two years later, yeah.

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00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,480
Yeah, one of the main.
Moral ambiguity.

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00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,040
But I certainly Bill Clinton was
definitely banging the drum of

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00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,640
this guy's a threat.
He tried to kill him.

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00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,680
And when George W Bush took
over, his first thing he did was

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00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,480
disregard anything Clinton said
just because he was a Democrat.

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00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,680
So they said keep your eyes on
bin Laden and WS.

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00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,280
Like, so when 911 happens, it
was like, how did this happen?

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00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,480
I'm like, that's easy.
Republican arrogance that they

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00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,800
don't believe anything Democrats
say when there's a problem.

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00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,079
But the the Republicans like
Dick Cheney were like, you know

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00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:23,440
what'll prevent this in the
future?

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If US security agencies get to
merge And they have one really

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big Uber agency, Department of
Homeland Security, which has no

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oversight and can do whatever it
wants.

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00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,720
It can barge in anywhere and it
can spy on anyone and it doesn't

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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,840
need warrants.
And and I was like, OK.

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00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,760
Or anything.
It's crazy.

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00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,760
And I was sort of like, OK,
there.

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00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,200
You're saying that the
intelligence didn't make it all

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00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,120
the way through because the FBI
doesn't talk to the CIA, doesn't

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00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,840
talk to the cops.
And that's what happened.

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00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,320
Maybe, maybe we need this
department or maybe George W

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00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,560
Bush should have listened to
frickin Clinton, right?

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00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,040
So that was kind of the
question.

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00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,440
And The thing is that.
Hasn't been repealed, has it?

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00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,240
How come no one has repealed it?
A lot of what's going on with

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00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,160
ICE is under the auspices of the
Department of Homeland Security,

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00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,040
and that's why ICE has been so
hard to deal with.

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00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,560
So.
And honestly, the ICE is sort of

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00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,120
what Captain America was
complaining about, you know?

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00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,960
So like, you know, ICE is like
sort of an unhinged shield or,

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00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,560
you know, and I think you.
So at the time, I didn't want

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00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,560
there to be another 911, right?
I mean, I didn't know anyone who

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died.
I flirted with going to World

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00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,240
Trade Center to get Broadway
tickets the same week it

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00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,640
happened, but I was in no danger
of having been killed.

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00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,720
So but, you know, it's scary.
And you're like, OK, I guess we

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need this.
And they're like, we have this

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00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:51,240
law, but that law was written a
draft of it years before.

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And they were just waiting for a
crisis to push it because they

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00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,880
just wanted more power.
And so they're like, it wasn't

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00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,440
tailored to that event.
It was handy.

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00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,640
And so they pushed it through
and.

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00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,040
And they also said, OK, we're
going to attack Afghanistan.

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00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,640
I was like, OK, well, if he's
there, cool.

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00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,640
And then they said we're going
to attack Iraq.

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00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,760
Yeah.
I was like, what does Iraq have

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00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,720
to do with anything?
And that's when I started to get

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00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,720
really confused.
I tried to.

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00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,080
Marvel got pretty.
Marvel got bold.

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00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,240
I wanted to marvel complain.
I I, I'm teaching this to my

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00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,320
class right now and they're
like, but why?

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00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,440
And I was like, I don't know
why?

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00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,040
And they're like, and everyone
was just like, cool with it.

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00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,640
And I'm like, I guess so I'm
like, I wasn't really very

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00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,880
politically conscious.
I was like, I was like 10.

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00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,400
I was like, they're like, it
doesn't seem to.

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00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,920
I was like, how do you know he
was there?

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00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,360
I was like, we don't know.
I was like, so why did you

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00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:44,560
attack it?
I was like, I don't know.

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00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,320
And then you went to another
place and I'm like, yeah, I'm

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00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,520
like, why did you attack it?
I'm like, I don't know, like,

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00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,080
OK.
And I'm like, but this was

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00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,160
actual foreign policy.
This is this is like American

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00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,680
history.
Like we, we spent a lot of money

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00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,480
on this and we sent a lot of
troops there and we, we killed a

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00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,080
lot of people there and for
what?

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00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,960
You know, I think at the time
you only have the information

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00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,000
that, you know, is available.
And I think that was the

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00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,880
beginning of the like official
real feeling of like state

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00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,200
propaganda because Fox News was
kicking in high gear after 911

387
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,560
and they got to be the patriotic
channel and the newspapers got

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00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,120
timid.
They got scared because they

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00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,600
didn't want to be seen as
traitors by questioning W.

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00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,000
So anytime anybody said Boo,
they got hammered to the point

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00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,440
where like the Dixie Chicks
complained about him and they

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00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,920
were boycotted and only like
Michael Moore and the Pope

393
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,120
complained.
Like so a lot of people said

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00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:42,520
there's like the, there's the
Democratic Party's giving non

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00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,680
existent resistance so that it's
just the Republicans and that's

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00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,280
it.
And even NPR, which is supposed

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00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,880
to be the liberal media, they
were inviting all these Iraqis

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00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,120
on saying please conquer the
country.

399
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,600
I got kicked out by Hussein and
he sucks anyway.

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00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,400
So who cares if he's responsible
for 911 like and they sort of

401
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520
float this idea that even if he
wasn't, we can conquer the

402
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,200
country in a week, put up a
democracy and make it better

403
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,360
because that's what we did with
the Marshall Plan on World War

404
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,680
2.
And there was all this stuff

405
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,800
about how America is the country
of the Marshall Plan and we're

406
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,280
going to rebuild.
But the the other, the flip side

407
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,520
of that argument was, well, W is
dismantling American Society

408
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,080
domestically.
How is he going to build a

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00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,320
society overseas?
You know, because Republicans

410
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,600
are not.
They dismantle things to cut

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00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,440
taxes.
They don't build things.

412
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,120
That's right.
So, you know, so part of me was

413
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,480
like, oh, I'm a World War 2
movie fan.

414
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,840
I like the Marshall Plan, you
know, so I was a little

415
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,880
susceptible to this baloney,
even though I didn't trust WI

416
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,400
mean he got in through a weird
tied election with Gore.

417
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,280
I didn't trust the recount.
So like the everything about W

418
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,520
was weird and sleazy.
So but part of me wanted to

419
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,120
trust him.
He's standing on the rubble of

420
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,520
911 and he says the people who
did this are going to hear from

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00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,280
us and I'm cheering for this guy
I didn't like or vote for.

422
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,840
But Spider Man was like, Oh, I
don't know if I make munitions

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00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,120
like Tony, but he's cool and
he's given me a whole, you know,

424
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,440
apartment building and he's
protecting my aunt and and then

425
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,680
he's like, but he's weird.
I don't know why I invested in

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00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,680
this guy and he defects.
And when I watch Spider Man do

427
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,160
it, I'm like, why am I
supporting W, you know?

428
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,560
And so it was a big moment for
me.

429
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,520
And it was sort of like pop
culture can.

430
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,720
Change.
You went from being a little bit

431
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,640
more conservative minded to more
liberal minded.

432
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,560
Yeah, I mean, it's it was a
herky jerky journey for me.

433
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,480
But like I was one of those
suburban sci-fi fans who was a

434
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,960
bit like modern suburban sci-fi
fans where like modern people be

435
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,480
like everything's woke now and
everything sucks and I'm just

436
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:57,720
going to play Call of Duty.
But for me at the time, I was

437
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,640
able to deal with it by going,
it's fun when Kirk beats up

438
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,720
Klingons on Star Trek and shoot
ships and you get to watch his

439
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,160
tactics.
But once he talks about how I

440
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,160
hope one day we're friends of
the Klingons, just Fast forward

441
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,120
that or plug your ears, you
know?

442
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,960
And that's how you get to be a
Republican Star Trek fan.

443
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,240
And that was a little bit like
that.

444
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,560
Like I'd watch Doctor Who and
then when they'd say stuff like

445
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,320
Buddhism is great, socialism is
great.

446
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,600
You know, I don't know if
religion is true.

447
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,160
God might have just been an
alien, You know, I would be

448
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,840
like, I'm not listening.
I'm I just show me the cool

449
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,680
Cybermen, you know?
But over time, that stuff pushed

450
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,960
me gradually to the left in a
way that I didn't think was

451
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,920
indoctrinating.
I think it opened my heart and

452
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,120
my mind.
I don't, I wasn't hypnotized,

453
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,760
but I think this Civil War was
the end of that process where I

454
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,640
was like, all right, all the
stuff that I thought was like

455
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,920
pro-life and stuff.
Good Catholics support that.

456
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,040
Good suburban men would support
the John Wayne values.

457
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,360
None of that's accurate that
these Democrats who I thought of

458
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,120
as sleazy, weed smoking hippies
who get themselves shot like

459
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,720
John Lennon, they might actually
be the good guys after all, even

460
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,240
though I was taught by my
neighborhood priests to hate

461
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,000
them.
And so and Civil War really got

462
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,160
me to that point.
And so when I was unemployed,

463
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480
I'm like, you know, I want to
tell the story and but I'm not

464
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,800
going to my my voice will be
behind it.

465
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,720
Like I'll be analyzing the more
liberal superhero stories, but

466
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,160
leaving myself kind of out of it
kind of not.

467
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,240
And the reason I did it was I
felt like if you go online, the

468
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,800
fans are like, why are all these
liberals writing superhero

469
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,720
stories is so liberal?
And if you read an academic

470
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,120
book, feminist academics will
say every superhero story is far

471
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,640
right wing because it's in a
male power fantasy.

472
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,080
And I'd look at both of those.
And I'd be like, these are

473
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,240
cartooning stories.
Like there's hundreds and

474
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,600
hundreds of comic books in my
basement, hundreds by different

475
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,680
writers, different ears,
different characters.

476
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,200
The Punisher is not Wonder
Woman, right?

477
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,120
Is not the Hulk is not Spider
Man.

478
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,360
They represent different values
at different writers, different

479
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,560
decades, and they all influence
my morality.

480
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,440
And I want to look at that and
see what that means.

481
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,720
And I'm going to do case
studies.

482
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,920
I'm do a chapter on Wonder
Woman, chapter on the Hulk, you

483
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,560
know, chapter on the Punisher,
that Fantastic Four, that kind

484
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320
of stuff.
And it felt like a good way of

485
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,920
dealing with my trauma from 911
and talking about my lifelong

486
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,200
hobby and finally writing a
book.

487
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,040
I was excited about that.
I felt like, I know this topic

488
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,480
and my goal was to write the
best superhero scholarly book

489
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,280
ever written, which is kind of
arrogant, but I did win a award

490
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,680
from the American Library
Association for like an academic

491
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,600
book of the year.
So I was like, oh, right, you

492
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,800
know, there you go, man.
So when it was a heck of a thing

493
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,720
to have happen when you were
between jobs?

494
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,440
That's awesome.
That's awesome.

495
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,720
And I, and I again, I think it's
a really cool example of, of

496
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,000
ways to like when you really,
really feel that and connected

497
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,800
it so strongly.
It's something that is magnetic

498
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,680
and it's something that people
just get attached to.

499
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,800
There's nothing that we that,
that people love more than

500
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,960
authentic passion.
And it's very, very, it's, it's,

501
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,680
I want to say impossible, but
close to it to fake, to fake

502
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,320
authenticity.
And whether it's a musician

503
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,640
playing a song or a writer
talking about something or a

504
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,680
podcast where like they're just
going back and forth and you

505
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,520
could see they're really, really
enjoying the moment.

506
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,320
You like, you really, really get
caught up in that.

507
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,960
And, and people want to share
that and spread with it and

508
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,560
really and participate with it,
you know.

509
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,400
And so, I mean, there's no doubt
that that's, I'm sure that that,

510
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,040
that that's a huge component as
to what that what made the work

511
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,000
so much fun and I'm sure so
attracted to so many people.

512
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,920
Yeah, it was scary to write
because, you know, there's a

513
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,760
chapter I knew I had to write
about torture because that was a

514
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,920
big theme post 911, because Dick
Cheney's like, we're going to

515
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,520
have to start torturing our
prisoners.

516
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,640
Yeah, I was like, yeah, that's
what the s s does.

517
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,800
This is weird.
You know 24.

518
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,240
The only person that got
arrested for that was the

519
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,120
whistleblower, that John
Kariaku.

520
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,200
I blew the whistle.
I blew the whistle on the

521
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,720
torture program.
He's the only one that got

522
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,880
arrested in association with it.
Oh well, and you know, like so

523
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,280
24 that have the storyline where
like Jack Bauer the hero, if you

524
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,200
didn't torture somebody, then
California's naked.

525
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,400
And so I felt like this pressure
like, do I have to decide in my

526
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,760
heart that I'm pro torture now?
And I just felt this pressure

527
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,520
like like the idea of having
empathy or or standards or

528
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,320
because became treasonous at
that time, like decency became

529
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,840
treasonous.
And I was like, how did we get

530
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,760
from New Yorkers or the real
America to oh, you voted for

531
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,760
John Kerry instead of Bush for
re election.

532
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,440
Fuck New York.
You're not the real American.

533
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,840
You know, you're you're too kind
heart.

534
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,120
You're hippie.
So yeah, I was worried.

535
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:09,560
We're doing the research.
I was like, so I had to decide

536
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,280
if I was pro torture or not.
And I knew that.

537
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,400
You train of thought going back
and forth about it.

538
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Well, like, like I wanted it to
be the right thing, but I also

539
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,880
wanted to make the case that it
was tactically sound.

540
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,680
And I don't know that I needed
to do that, but I wanted to do

541
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,600
that right.
So and I knew that the fantastic

542
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,160
form will be rise of the Silver
Surfer.

543
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,680
The idea is that the Invisible
Woman says the Silver Surfer

544
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,680
scary.
He works for a guy who wants to

545
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,320
eat our planet.
The government wants to torture

546
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,760
him.
He's captured.

547
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,480
I understand why I'm going to
frame and be nice to him.

548
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,480
And she does that, and then he
turns on Galactus and saves

549
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,440
humans because of her kindness.
And I was like, OK, that fits

550
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,760
with my morality.
I'm going to compare Marvel's

551
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,280
big heart to 24's torture those
people.

552
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,080
And so that was a torture
chapter.

553
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,240
So I knew narratively, I like
the Fantastic Four, but I was

554
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,800
like, all right, time to
research, like John McCain's

555
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,120
torturing or what is, you know,
the head of national security,

556
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,240
say.
And what's interesting is I

557
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,000
found out John McCain said he
just kept lying when they

558
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
tortured him and making up fake
stuff.

559
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,720
And then they interviewed like I
think the head of the FBI.

560
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,600
And he said actually given being
given the right to torture

561
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600
people has ruined everything
because we just now spend all

562
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,240
our time chasing imaginary
leads.

563
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Like we'll be torturing an
innocent person and they'll make

564
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,000
up something, anything to make
us stop.

565
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,160
And the time we're wasting is
putting people in danger.

566
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,160
And I was like, oh, good, 'cause
I sort of imagine writing about

567
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,760
something this dangerous that I
was going to be punished by God

568
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,400
for writing about torture.
Like if I said I'm pro torture

569
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,920
that I'd wake up in somebody's
basement the next day with a bag

570
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,040
over my head.
Or if they say I'm anti torture,

571
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,720
suddenly California will be
naked and everyone in America

572
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,400
will look at me and go, your
chapter destroyed California,

573
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,240
you know?
But I think because I was

574
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,840
between jobs and I felt
confident in my research, I was

575
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,160
able to write what I want to
write.

576
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,800
But what?
But I but part of me thought I'm

577
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,960
never going to get a teaching
job.

578
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,880
So when you're talking about,
you want to be free to say

579
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,880
something.
It was a very key moment where I

580
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,320
was did the research.
I had some trauma I had to deal

581
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,560
with.
I love superheroes.

582
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,840
And I was like, you know, if I'm
never going to teaching job,

583
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,320
I'll write whatever.
And that freed me.

584
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,800
And I think that's why the
book's so good.

585
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,520
But any other time in my life
probably wrote something more

586
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,800
timid.
Yeah.

587
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,320
So yeah, there's a.
There's a great Steve Jobs I

588
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,480
show my class every my high
school students every year his

589
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,440
his end of the year speech.
I forgot the word is end of the

590
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,400
year speech at Stanford and on
graduation.

591
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,760
And one of the things he was
talking about was the benefits

592
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,840
of getting fired allowed him,
you know, the freedom to be, to

593
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,240
be nimble and to be free to take
chances in the way that like,

594
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,240
you don't have anything to,
like, hang on to.

595
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720
So you may, so you may as well
just go for it in whatever

596
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,440
capacity because there's no,
there's no worse than where you

597
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,280
are right now.
You know, and, and the being

598
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,440
established is inherently the
opposite perspective is you want

599
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,000
to, you want to maintain
something and you want to make

600
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,880
sure that you don't lose your
ties And, and it becomes harder

601
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,800
to do.
I was talking to my student the

602
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,280
other day and he was, and I
said, and he said he was talking

603
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,000
to his friends, like, yeah, I
just want to be an accountant.

604
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,680
I'm like, dude, you want to be
an accountant?

605
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,200
And he's like, yeah, I said why?
And someone else was like, cuz

606
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,080
her sister's an account and she
can probably get him a job.

607
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,800
And like, dude, you're 17 years
old.

608
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,520
You have literally one life to
live.

609
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,680
I was like, do you want to be an
account?

610
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,400
And he's like, I don't know.
And I was like, well, what do

611
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,040
you want to do?
He's like, I don't know,

612
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,560
whatever you want to do, try
doing like the next two or three

613
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,600
years and there's absolutely
nothing on the line and you

614
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,040
could afford to fail at anything
you want to do, you know, But

615
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
like you get one life, man, you
got like you could be an account

616
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,240
when you're 25, like there's 17.
Do something fun to pursue

617
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,880
something cool.
Maybe you'll maybe you'll be

618
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,480
able to get to do it, and maybe
you won't, but at least you have

619
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,920
to try.
I was in a gifted program at 5th

620
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,160
grade and 5th grade people were
talking like I'm going to be a

621
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,000
neurosurgeon or I'm going to be
a dentist or like the oddest

622
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,120
jobs.
And I'm like, why?

623
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,520
And they're like, well, I know
what schools I'm going to.

624
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,440
And I was like, man, your
parents are really like have a

625
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,680
vision for you and like, what
are you going to do?

626
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,720
I was like, I'm not sure I want
to be like an artist or I want

627
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,240
to make independent films or
like I just picked everything I

628
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,440
want to do is totally dream
oriented because I like

629
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,000
storytelling and it's because
I'm an INFP.

630
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,920
I'm an idealist.
That personality trait is

631
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:55,440
considered unemployable, but if
you really look, it's the Myers

632
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,480
Briggs negotiator, idealist,
personality type.

633
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,880
The best jobs are priests,
teacher, stand up comedian, you

634
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,680
know, artist, author.
And I'm like, well, that's my

635
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,120
calling.
That's me.

636
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,840
Yeah.
So it's not a practicality, is

637
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,480
not an option for me.
So when somebody says to me, I'm

638
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,560
going to be practical, I'm like,
does your personality allow for

639
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,360
it?
Maybe that's wise.

640
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Just times I wish I could, but I
can't.

641
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,600
Like I think I would wither.
I don't know about other people.

642
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,600
So I've been jealous of like
that kind of certainty.

643
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,600
Although what you're describing
sounds more like he's being

644
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,560
bullied.
I don't know a lot of people, a

645
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,960
lot of people make a lot of
choices based on based on just

646
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,640
what other people tell them.
And they just say, well, sounds

647
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,080
good to me, you know, like, I
mean, I don't even know that

648
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,200
they I would think I know for
myself, especially growing up in

649
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,960
a life of comfort, thankfully,
and I was very, very fortunate

650
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,200
to have the childhood that I
had.

651
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,040
I didn't part of the one of one
of the, one of the one of the

652
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,520
few downsides not to complain
about having thankfully a good

653
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,280
life is that you never think
anything's wrong.

654
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,040
And so like you kind of just
take everything as it is and,

655
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,320
and, and, and I've learned that
I'm in, you know, over the years

656
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,440
and how how enormously naive I
am in so many ways.

657
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,560
And I'm like, on one hand,
that's a wonderful thing.

658
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,280
On the other hand, I got a lot
of catching up to do and like,

659
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,280
you know, to a certain extent,
it's really benefit.

660
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,280
It's really beneficial because I
tend to be very genuine.

661
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,880
On the other hand, you know, I
also every time I'm shocked that

662
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,120
like, you know, something isn't,
you know, just exactly the way

663
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,679
that everyone says it's going to
be, you know, and it's a, it's

664
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,440
been a, it's been a, you know,
so I feel like my 20s has been a

665
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,520
growing up out of my naivety of,
of my, of my childhood.

666
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,560
That was so, you know that that
was so comfortable.

667
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,760
Every time I think I have a
handle on how hard women's lives

668
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,400
are, I learned something else
from like, oh, that's way worse

669
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,239
than I thought.
Well, at least now I know.

670
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,040
Oh, no, that's way worse than I
thought.

671
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,159
Well, at least now I know, you
know, like, yeah, we're not

672
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:57,240
allowed to put beer down when
we're at a bar.

673
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,680
Why?
Somebody's going to put a drug

674
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,520
in our drink.
Really.

675
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,760
Like, I know nothing about any
of this.

676
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,040
This.
So when me too happened, I'm

677
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,120
like, I thought I knew about the
casting couch.

678
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,520
I thought I knew about, say, how
many people are on my feet are

679
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,560
saying me too.
Hi, Kurumba.

680
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,160
And so you all had one bad
experience.

681
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,240
Oh, you have 7 bad experiences a
day.

682
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,880
That's why nobody wears low cut
shirts anymore.

683
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,120
Oh my God, you know, it's like,
it's just, you know, I just, you

684
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,960
just don't.
But you're, you're curious.

685
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,360
I can tell.
So that don't be too hard on

686
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,240
yourself because you're doing
what I think people like Joe

687
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,640
Rogan pretend they're doing,
which is like, I want to have

688
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,160
talk to experts.
I want to learn.

689
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,080
I'm curious.
I'm a seeker.

690
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,200
So don't you know that's more
important?

691
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,360
You're you're going to wind up
surpassing people who are

692
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,960
freaking certain you know.
Well, yeah, I, I mean, I think

693
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,520
that there are certain things
that I, that I value and

694
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,320
probably hold certain that I
would probably, you know, stand

695
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,320
up for when it came to when push
came to shove.

696
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,880
But I'm also doing this to, to
learn to learn about your

697
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,120
perspective and to do, you know,
and to learn about and to learn

698
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,240
about other people's perspective
too.

699
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:12,200
And then I, I do find myself
evolving and I do find myself

700
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640
changing.
And I mean, and, and in so many

701
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,920
ways that I never dreamt of.
And I, and, and, and when that

702
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,000
happens, and it's funny because
I've always kind of been an

703
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,800
out-of-the-box kind of person in
general, I tend to be very

704
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,000
hesitant to put myself into any
kind of category, association or

705
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,920
box.
It's really, really it's, it's,

706
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,640
it's, it's, it's free, but it's
a challenge because it also by

707
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,480
almost inherently limits
people's ability to relate to

708
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,000
you because you're not in a box,
you know, So someone's like, are

709
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,360
you politically right?
I'm like, well, neither.

710
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,360
I'm like, well, and then you and
then I can totally agree with a

711
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,320
whole lot of the things that
people on the on the left would

712
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,720
say and then totally agree with
a whole lot of things people on

713
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,160
the right would say.
And at the same time it disagree

714
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,000
with them vehemently.
You know that so many other

715
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,400
things and it makes it very,
very difficult.

716
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,760
Boxes almost make things easier.
Boxes make it easier because

717
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,600
things are black and white and
we live in a Gray area where

718
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,480
where you have to say, wait a
minute, like, like Captain

719
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,840
America my size, not always
right.

720
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,200
And like, I've got to be aware
of that.

721
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,520
And one of the interesting
things about Captain America's

722
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,360
development that I, that I
didn't appreciate until I, until

723
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,320
it was pointed out to me was how
he started off naive.

724
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,360
And then especially, I guess in
the movies more, but it's more

725
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,560
my experience with it.
But you know, he started off

726
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,840
naive and then said, wait a
minute, like if you wanted to

727
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,720
compromise, what else are you
compromising on?

728
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:37,120
And if you're going to
compromise, what else are you

729
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,640
compromising on all of a sudden?
And then, but you keep on

730
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,800
telling me that I have to put
make an exception for my morals

731
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,120
for the sake of this country or
this association, Like, why, why

732
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,440
do I, why do my morals have to
take a backseat to that?

733
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,280
And that's a very difficult way,
I think for people to live.

734
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,920
I think it's easier for people
to live in a in a box.

735
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,080
And Captain America makes a very
hard choice and he ends up as

736
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,200
like a fugitive.
He ends up, I mean, when you run

737
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,000
into him in an Infinity war,
he's on, he's on the run.

738
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,400
No one knows what what he's been
up to go in like.

739
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,320
And I kind of I'm almost tempted
to go on the run because I'm

740
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,440
like, this whole thing is crazy.
I mean, you know, and, and I

741
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,200
mean the fact that the Epstein
story, for example, is not the

742
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,480
biggest story everywhere on the
planet right now, I think is

743
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,800
like a complete indication as to
how ideological ideologically

744
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,000
captured so many people are.
That like, you could take

745
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,800
something objectively bad and,
and, and try to and, and, and

746
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,160
turn it into a political.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

747
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,240
It's your side.
It's your side.

748
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,640
You didn't release it.
You didn't release it.

749
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,040
It's like, dude, the whole thing
should burn if everyone is, if

750
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,760
it's if it's built on this, you
know?

751
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,720
I mean, it's honestly, everybody
was right and everybody was

752
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,800
wrong, which is interesting
because if you look at like

753
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,160
2016, Hillary on stage says
Trump is compromised.

754
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,200
He, he works for Russia, he's a
spy.

755
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,520
And at the time I, I knew that
she was rated the most honest

756
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,920
politician.
My problem with her was she was

757
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,240
a hawk and I was like, oh, but
that sounds kind of wild.

758
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:11,720
Like I don't know that I believe
he's a spy.

759
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:16,800
I've never liked him, but I, and
I didn't believe her, but it was

760
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,840
true.
But at the same time, you had

761
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,320
these, these what was conspiracy
theories that that he's kind of

762
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,040
working for Putin.
Like he's got this sort of ties

763
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,760
to Putin that are really
peculiar.

764
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:29,800
And then and he's frightened to
Putin.

765
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:30,760
Trump does.
Yeah.

766
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,680
And that's one of the reasons
he's willing to hand Ukraine

767
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,080
over, put over to Putin and why
he gives Putin a hero's welcome

768
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,200
when he, you know, flies in.
So it's Putin may have something

769
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,960
on him and he's gone to Russia a
lot of time.

770
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,400
So that's not, I thought it was
outrageous, but it's apparently

771
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,040
true.
But the other thing that the

772
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,320
Democrats thought was
outrageous, when Republicans

773
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:59,040
said that there were these child
abuse prostitution rings based

774
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,360
in pizzerias linked to Hillary
and everybody's like, what?

775
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:09,120
You know that's crazy.
And there are these prostitution

776
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,040
reductive that's sort of the
Epstein files, the Pizzagate

777
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,000
stuff.
But you know, and so the is it

778
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:21,240
that they were both right, But
like, you can only take the half

779
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:25,120
that your person says is true.
But what was interesting was

780
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,400
Trump was able to talk so much
about it because he knew

781
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,880
everybody in it.
So he was talking about

782
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,400
transparency and and one of the
things I've realized it's tricky

783
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,440
is he's very good at identifying
what's wrong with the country

784
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,360
and comes up with fake solutions
like let's take it out on the

785
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,560
immigrants when.
But he can identify what's so

786
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,280
wrong with the country partly
because he's part of what's

787
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,080
causing the problem.
Like, so he's like, I'm going to

788
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,320
expose the Epstein files.
Why?

789
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,000
Because I'm in him, but he's not
going to say that, right.

790
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,400
But he but he'll just hope he
never actually has to deliver.

791
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,320
He's just going to say only Bill
Clinton's in the in the Epstein

792
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,600
files or, you know, only this
person.

793
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,280
And meanwhile, freaking
everybody's in the Epstein files

794
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,760
except like Pope Francis and
Obama, you know?

795
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:11,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

796
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,480
Is he?
I, I think that I think that

797
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,560
you're right in a certain sense.
I think I, I certainly think

798
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,200
that what you said about Trump
is true.

799
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:26,720
You said about the pizza gate
stuff is almost and we're seeing

800
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:31,800
like, listen, it's got to be a
hell of a story for it not to be

801
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,560
the case.
Meaning like whatever it is,

802
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,480
tell me, tell me what is the is
the is the is, is the more

803
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,520
plausible, you know,
understanding of that story,

804
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,720
perhaps, you know for sure.
But I think that, and I think

805
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:46,520
that Rokon and Thomas Massie
were so good about this recent

806
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,200
term that they coined the
Epstein class, which is just

807
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,120
which is which transcends left
and right and really is elite

808
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,640
versus the populace versus
everyday people.

809
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:05,320
You know, and I and I actually,
it's so interesting because, you

810
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,160
know, you have a lot of
institutions that are trying to

811
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,920
use different movies as
propaganda to try to further

812
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,680
different types of narratives
and establishments, you know,

813
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,280
ideas.
And one thing that I think is

814
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,320
really interesting is that like
the Epstein class or this class

815
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:29,160
of morally degenerate elites
that, that work on another tier

816
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,440
of justice, It's just, it's just
what it is.

817
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,120
You know, I mean, if anyone, if
I submit my taxes the wrong way,

818
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,480
I'm, I'm thrown in jail.
I mean, like the, the, the, the,

819
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,800
the conversation is absolutely
ridiculous.

820
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,280
You know, that like not
everyone, that the entire system

821
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,440
isn't in shambles right now,
except for the fact that there's

822
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,520
two tiers of, of justice, right?
And so, and we have so many

823
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,600
movies that are emphasizing and
teaching that Americans, whether

824
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,800
it's true or not.
And it most of the time it

825
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,880
tended to not be true.
True, we were the underdogs and

826
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,760
we were like the, you know, the
little scrappy guys.

827
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,200
And we're like, you weren't this
enormous imperial power since

828
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,920
World War 2.
But I think what is really

829
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,600
interesting is that those type
of movies are actually giving

830
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,720
the populist type of people a
hope and a fighting strength

831
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,640
against what they see now is
like the real enemy.

832
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,360
And it's not one particular
party and it's not one

833
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,280
particular country.
It's a group of established,

834
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:26,520
very, very powerful, wealthy
networks.

835
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,640
It's, it's, I mean, like Prime
Minister, you're seeing prime

836
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,320
ministers in Israel, the UK,
America, I mean, all over the

837
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,400
place.
And, and I think that I think

838
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,120
that this has been and, and
Rokon and Thomas Massie, the

839
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,480
fact that a left, a lefty from
California and a righty from

840
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,560
Kentucky have been fighting so
tirelessly together.

841
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,960
I think I hope that that is the
beginning of an awakening of 20

842
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,760
of, of 25 very dark years in
American in American political

843
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,720
history or social history, where
it almost feels like most of the

844
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:02,120
arguments that we're having or
just like generated as like the

845
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,800
next biggest deal in the entire
world.

846
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,880
When a lot of times they're not
like a lot of times like, you

847
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,240
know, like there are things that
just get, you know, and, and,

848
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,960
and information is absolutely a
form of warfare.

849
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,760
And, you know, as soon as the
Epstein things come up, war with

850
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,320
Iran's coming up, ice is popping
up, Somalia is popping up.

851
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:19,200
You're like, wait a minute,
dude.

852
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,720
Like we're getting distracted
from the fact that through that

853
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:24,320
a month and a half ago, you were
supposed to release everything

854
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,920
with all the redacted names,
unredacted names except for the

855
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,720
victims.
And like, what are you even

856
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:30,960
talking about right now?
That's the biggest this problem.

857
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,560
So like I think that I think
that we have to keep our like

858
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,520
the establishment almost shot
themselves in the foot by giving

859
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,400
such good heroes and like Spider
Man's and Captain America's and

860
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,640
and and and and real figures of
faith and hope of everyday

861
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,960
people to Americans.
They were subconsciously really

862
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,680
providing us with, I think, a
lot of positive propaganda and

863
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,360
ammo.
When I was growing up, it was

864
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,720
very important to me to not
follow people who were flawed.

865
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,120
And so I, for me, it was the
easiest to have as a hero people

866
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,760
who were dead or people who were
fictional.

867
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,200
I'm going to join folks who were
alive could always let you down,

868
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,400
you know, And there have been
times where I'll, like, put in

869
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,720
writing.
This guy seems to be cool, you

870
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,480
know?
And then like three years later,

871
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,000
you will find out, oh, that
person was evil, you know?

872
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,480
And so there's something
liberating and writing about

873
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,640
dead Jane Austen.
She's not going to let you down,

874
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,080
right?
But when I was a kid, I was, it

875
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,760
was very important to be, to be
decent.

876
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,120
Like I'm like, OK, I'm, I'm a
gentle soul.

877
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,760
Like my personality type is
idealist.

878
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,040
I'm religious and you know, so
how do I be a good person?

879
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,160
And so the party that's going to
trick me into voting for them is

880
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,400
the one that presents what
they're doing is kind.

881
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,800
And so at the time, like Dan
Quayle was like, we just like

882
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,240
family values.
And I'm like, oh, I'm Italian.

883
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:59,080
We like family values, you know,
and I said, oh, we, we're color

884
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,880
blind.
We, we just want you to work

885
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,200
hard.
We like all the colors.

886
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,600
We're, we've stopped with that
Confederacy stuff.

887
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,640
And that's very different than
the modern branding, the

888
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,160
Republican Party.
So the modern one would have

889
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,560
never spoken to me, but Quayle's
got me in.

890
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,480
But once I determined that they
were like less kind, I switched.

891
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,640
But broadly, like, right when I
was trying to pick a job or who

892
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,400
to like, my friends love rock
music and I was like, I don't

893
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,080
know if I like rock music
because I kind of feel like

894
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,320
they're all rapists.
Like I felt like a teenage girl

895
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,800
would be come in and be like,
oh, I love your music.

896
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,760
Will you sign my, you know, my
CD?

897
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,960
And they'd be like, great.
And then then they rape them.

898
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,760
And then nobody was sympathetic
because they'd be like, well,

899
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,720
what were they doing in their
dressing room?

900
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,000
And I'll be like, I don't like
any of that.

901
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,640
I don't like, I like music.
I like dancing.

902
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,560
But I'm not going to like, pray
to like David Bowie.

903
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Like I can't do it.
I kind of like Madonna more

904
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,280
because she's hot, but no.
And then I was sort of like, and

905
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,320
sports is the same way.
I was like, I don't know,

906
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,600
whatever a football team wins,
do they just feed cheerleaders

907
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,120
to these guys?
Like they're ravenous dogs.

908
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,200
So I hated sports.
So I'm like, because it's just a

909
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,200
bunch of rapists, you know, and
there's all these scandals with

910
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,960
these coaches, but somebody.
But here's the irony.

911
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,120
It was, I'm like, I feel
confident that Hollywood and

912
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,760
religious leaders don't do that.
So I invested in movies, you

913
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,600
know, because you go see the
movies, and the movies are sort

914
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,880
of like in the 90s, there's
really cool Jane Austen literary

915
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,040
adaptations.
And there were all these

916
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,440
powerful women in the movies,
Cate Blanchett, Gwyneth Paltrow,

917
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,840
Nicole Kidman.
And I was like, wow, the movies

918
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,880
are a good place for women to
be, but who's making those

919
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,600
movies and who's casting those
women is Harvey Weinstein,

920
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,640
who's, like, raping them?
And some of them would vanish

921
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,920
from sight.
And I'd be like, where'd they

922
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,280
go?
They probably refused to date

923
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,840
with them, you know.
So I, I, it occurred to me like,

924
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,720
OK, well, a friend of mine got a
job in Hollywood and I said, oh,

925
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:08,640
I'm jealous.
I always wanted to make movies.

926
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,120
And he said, you know, you'd
hate it here because he was

927
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:18,480
seeing all the rape and stuff.
And he left and and he would

928
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,080
hint at it, but like, if some of
the people he was hinting at

929
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,720
were like gay or Jewish or
something, I'd be like, was this

930
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:27,480
homophobia?
Is this what's going on?

931
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:29,320
But he was pointing to real
stuff.

932
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,240
And I would didn't believe him.
But he said to me, you're

933
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:36,200
writing nice academic books
where you talk about what

934
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,920
superheroes mean to you.
That's the way to be a fan.

935
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,160
I thought going and making those
movies was the way to go.

936
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,600
And it exposed me to the
underbelly of Hollywood.

937
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,080
He said the good news is Kevin
Feige is nice.

938
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,680
That's good.
The bad news is I had to get out

939
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,600
of there.
And so it actually made me make

940
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,920
peace with not being a big
enough success.

941
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,680
But it's I want to survive and
be kind of my students and

942
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,600
promote good messages in my
writing, knowing full well that

943
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:12,400
any institution, any leader is
going to be tempted to eat

944
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,640
vulnerable people that are in
their path.

945
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,080
And I'm not like that.
So it took me a while to see it.

946
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,320
Like, if you're not a liar, it's
actually very easy to be

947
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,440
gullible because you don't know,
you know, and I'm not a sex

948
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,240
predator.
And so I'm just like, I'm nice

949
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:35,000
to women, I guess every guy is.
But on some level I'm like,

950
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,400
wait, on the other hand, what
did I over here in the locker

951
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,360
room, you know?
So I think that we're finding

952
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:49,080
out is anybody who's Obama's my
hero or or Clinton's my hero or

953
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:54,080
Trump's my hero or, you know,
any powerful person, are they

954
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,920
going to show restraint?
You know?

955
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,880
And but what I've noticed is two
of my favorite leaders of the

956
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,640
last 20-30 years are Pope
Francis and Obama.

957
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,560
And they are the guys that are
most mocked in the Epstein files

958
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,880
by child rapists.
So I guess I picked, well,

959
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:11,640
models.
Yeah.

960
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,160
Yeah.
You know, like, if my favorite

961
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,840
people or their least favorite
people, I guess I'm doing good.

962
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,960
But I like the potential of
getting the folks who were

963
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:27,240
really pumped about the movie,
the sound of Freedom to, like,

964
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:28,680
join with April.
Did you hear about?

965
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,360
That Did you hear about how that
box office explosion happened?

966
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,440
Do you know what you did?
Did you hear about that story?

967
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,080
No, I just know that like I felt
bad for being skeptical of a

968
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,880
movie about protecting children,
but it seemed exploitative in a

969
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,360
dangerous way, so I was Snooty
about it.

970
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,480
So I don't know much about it,
but I.

971
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,720
Don't know, just.
Seems to be that something like

972
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:55,480
that is a potential overlap,
kind of like gun rights is

973
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,800
suddenly becoming a potential
overlap, right.

974
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,720
But I don't know.
Yeah, what we going to?

975
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,560
Say, well, I think that I think
the pendulum always swings the

976
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,160
the that story with the sound.
What was it called the sound of

977
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,520
freedom or something?
Or what was it?

978
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,040
Something like that?
You know what I mean?

979
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,240
The, you know, aren't they like
this pedophiles?

980
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:15,720
So we got to go kill them and
rescue the kids or something.

981
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,640
And it's kind of based on.
I'll tell you the truth, I, I, I

982
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,280
didn't watch it and I don't know
anything about it.

983
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,160
What I remember hearing from a
business end of that is that at

984
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,800
the end of the movie, there was,
if you want, there's like a

985
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,720
message, if you want to raise
awareness, you can.

986
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,320
And I think the the terminology
was a little dubious.

987
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,840
And they said, like, you know,
you could pass it along by

988
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,880
forwarding a ticket.
And so basically people thought

989
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,040
they were donating, but they
were really buying tickets for

990
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,120
like, like tickets for the next
showing for someone else to

991
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,440
watch it.
And so theaters got booked and

992
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:49,880
booked and booked because
everyone thought that they were

993
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,400
donating money to, to survivors
or to, you know, to people that

994
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,640
were trying to protect
pedophiles or trying to fight

995
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,080
pedophiles and stuff like that.
And then, and then you end up

996
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,920
just having sold out movie
theaters and like, I don't know

997
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:05,120
where I listen.
I, I prefer, I like to get

998
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,080
benefit of the doubt, you know,
and say that this may have been

999
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,640
just a big misunderstanding, but
that movie grossed it.

1000
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,120
It made a couple $100 million.
It was a tiny budget.

1001
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,960
And very, I, I think that
there's a disproportionate

1002
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,800
amount of people that saw it
relative to amount of tickets

1003
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,000
that were actually sold because
of how many people tried to, you

1004
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,800
know, pass it along, quote, UN
quote, and or, or tried to

1005
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,720
donate and ended up just buying,
you know, an empty movie theater

1006
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,320
seat.
Pretty crazy.

1007
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,160
Just a just a little fun fact.
Yeah.

1008
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,800
Well, it's funny what you you
can and get a can't get away

1009
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:47,400
with saying.
Like when I was considering

1010
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,320
becoming a reporter, I was torn
because on the one hand I grew

1011
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,680
up idolizing Lois Lane, but on
the other hand, the main one of

1012
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,040
the main villains of die hard
was a sleazy reporter.

1013
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,560
So I'm like, so I, I was enough
skeptical of reporters and I

1014
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,920
kept hearing about the liberal
media and the liberal media that

1015
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,600
even though PBS raised me to
love culture, I was like, oh,

1016
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,360
the liberal media and but I want
to be a writer.

1017
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,480
And for summer, what was my job
opportunity?

1018
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,640
I could work for Burger King or
become a reporter intern.

1019
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,480
That's cool.
So I decided reporter intern

1020
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,480
even though I was scared of all
them liberals.

1021
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,480
And what I found out was all
them liberals are really nice

1022
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,800
people that just wanted a kinder
society.

1023
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,280
And I was like, oh, these guys
are not quite what Rush Limbaugh

1024
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,840
was describing to me as these
sort of vampires.

1025
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,760
So just meeting nice liberals
help.

1026
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:38,560
But also, like, I prided myself
on hating Bill Clinton.

1027
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,240
I thought he was sleazy.
I was like, I don't like this

1028
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,560
guy.
And I would get sent out to

1029
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,640
interview Staten Islanders,
which is a pretty conservative

1030
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,320
working class borough in New
York.

1031
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,000
And like, I would ask, what's
your favorite movie as the

1032
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,920
question of the week?
And I go to the park.

1033
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,600
What's your favorite movie?
And they would say to me, I

1034
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,440
don't talk to liberal reporters.
And I'd be like, I and they

1035
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:01,680
like, you like Clinton, don't
you?

1036
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,360
I was like, actually, I don't
like, who do you vote for?

1037
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,560
I was like, actually, I'm
between parties right now, but

1038
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,080
leaning Republican.
And they didn't believe me.

1039
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,880
And I was like, oh.
Porter.

1040
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,040
This is what I was like 2 years
ago.

1041
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,280
I'm annoying, you know, and they
can say anything.

1042
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,480
They could say you're a
communist, you're a traitor.

1043
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,840
You're the, and like, you work
for Satan.

1044
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:30,680
And, and these days, like I
posted a meme mocking Pam

1045
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,240
Bondi's testimony before
Congress and like, pretty my

1046
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:38,000
mother in law's like, why are
you spewing hate speech?

1047
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,560
Like I posted a meme gently
ribbing Pam Bondi who's

1048
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,680
protecting paedophiles, and
that's hate speech.

1049
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,320
But I work for Satan.
It's.

1050
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,360
Really weird, the pendulum
swinging.

1051
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,760
I was talking.
I I, I did a solo episode the

1052
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,840
other day, another week after
after the ice, after the first

1053
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,240
ice shooting.
I forgot her name and good or

1054
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:07,480
something.
Maybe I don't remember her name.

1055
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,320
Yeah.
And I was saying that this is

1056
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,040
and then and then Cash Patel
goes on the record and goes,

1057
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,040
well, you can't bring a gun to a
rally.

1058
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,080
I'm like, if this was a Biden
administration and and anyone

1059
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,880
had said you can't bring a gun
to the rally.

1060
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,360
I was like, Kyle Rittenhouse is
is is a hero on the right.

1061
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,400
And I was like, what do you
think he did?

1062
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,000
You know?
I mean, he, you know, and I was

1063
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,960
like, at the end of the day, the
pendulum is just swinging back

1064
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,400
and forth and everyone thought,
and this goes back to again, my

1065
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,440
point before it's like these are
stupid wars that are meant to

1066
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,000
keep us at each other's throats,
to distract us from the real

1067
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,720
issues.
Like you want.

1068
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:45,040
I, I at the end of the day, like
the person in charge is going to

1069
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,520
do what they got.
It was going to say what they

1070
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,280
want to say to stay in charge
and they're going to do what

1071
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:49,520
they got to do to stay in
charge.

1072
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,920
And like, you know, and, and,
and what really bothered me was

1073
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:58,680
again, because I, I like, I, I
have to say, I like the, the one

1074
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,920
thing that I think that the
Liberal Party did wrong leading

1075
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:09,000
up to 2024 was how strongly and
how vehemently they rejected

1076
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,760
anyone that disagreed with them
or would have any other kind of

1077
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,960
point.
And one thing that I was really

1078
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,680
hoping for, I, I didn't love, I
didn't, I don't, I never loved

1079
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:19,920
Trump.
I never thought that he was

1080
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,440
going to be, I, I was always
surprised by like what came out

1081
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:24,800
of his mouth and like what he
would do.

1082
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,040
I didn't have like a
particularly strong opinion.

1083
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,760
I was always like, this guy's
like, like we'd even pull that

1084
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,400
from, you know, and like,
sometimes it made sense and

1085
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,080
sometimes it did.
And sometimes it was crazy and

1086
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,400
sometimes it wasn't.
And I was like, I don't know

1087
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,880
what to think, but I certainly
can't.

1088
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,520
I don't, I definitely didn't
want to, you know, throw my

1089
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,960
support behind him because I
don't know what I think of.

1090
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,880
I, I can't, I can't figure them
out.

1091
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,200
And, and then I, and then I saw
that Tulsi Gabbard came from the

1092
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:49,840
left to the right.
And I was like, Oh, maybe this

1093
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,800
is a good sign.
And Elon historically was left,

1094
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,000
was left-leaning and then
started voting right.

1095
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,120
Then RFK came over and I was
like, look like, maybe this is a

1096
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,400
combination of two-part of, of
two parties that like, this is

1097
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,000
really populist versus elite.
Maybe this will work out.

1098
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,600
And then, like the second that
this that the term starts, it's

1099
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,360
like, Nope, this is the exact
same, this exact same thing that

1100
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,880
we've been seeing.
Just, you know, just flip the

1101
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,480
color, flip this, you know, flip
the flip the person saying

1102
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,440
whatever they're saying, flip
the script for whatever FBI head

1103
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,000
of the FBI is going to be saying
about what you can do or can't

1104
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,400
do with free speech and rallies
and Pam Bondi and not like Pam

1105
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,480
Bondi was terrible, you know,
but like, and Thomas Massey's

1106
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,040
point was awesome.
Is like, this is four

1107
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,080
generation.
This is 4 presidencies of cover

1108
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,560
up and you're responsible for
this chapter of it.

1109
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,000
And like you don't get to get
away from that, but by by

1110
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:41,400
blaming other people like we're
and and again, I it's just and,

1111
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,520
and, and I want, I want hope.
I want faith.

1112
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,520
You know, that's why I love
these characters.

1113
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,520
That's why I love these people,
because that's how I like

1114
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,280
talking about this stuff.
I think that this does lead to

1115
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,280
hope.
Well.

1116
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,920
And I think what I grew up in an
interesting time period because

1117
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,600
the culture change, like when I
was really, really small in the

1118
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,840
70's, The Muppets were all about
diversity and joy and being a

1119
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,160
hippie.
And, you know, the, their

1120
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,840
villain was the Eagle who was
patriotic and, you know, crude

1121
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,480
and so like, and then there's
Wonder Woman who's like this

1122
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,000
sexy feminist who beats up Nazis
and but talks about love and

1123
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,840
gets the Nazis to defect and
become kind.

1124
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,880
And, you know, so she doesn't
always kill.

1125
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,680
Like she'll tie people up.
That's about as far as she goes.

1126
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,160
And then like in the 80s, it's
like Transformers.

1127
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,240
Like it's so manly.
They're man robots.

1128
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,640
It took a long time for RC to
show up, you know, So it's like,

1129
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:40,840
very like John Wayne Oil,
Airwolf, Knight Rider, you know?

1130
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,680
And so simultaneously I'm like,
yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

1131
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,440
Terminator.
But also I like The Muppets, you

1132
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,240
know?
So I could have gone either way.

1133
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,680
And like, I like the Punisher
was the Italian superhero,

1134
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,200
killed lots of people.
And I was like, OK, he's kind of

1135
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,960
the Godfather, I guess.
I guess I like revenge stories,

1136
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,960
like John Wick.
Is he just killing a bunch of

1137
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:05,880
minorities?
Is that a little weird?

1138
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,440
You know, so and, and, and and
what's the death penalty for

1139
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,320
him?
Like, does he draw the line at

1140
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,120
jaywalking?
Like where?

1141
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,600
Yeah, what's you know, when does
he just punch them?

1142
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,160
You know?
So I think I was confused and,

1143
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,640
and and I think those, that's
why I've been divided.

1144
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,720
And I think the other thing is
I'm Italian and Italians are

1145
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,200
weird politically because, like,
first of all, Catholics are

1146
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:35,800
supposed to be socialists, but
but also like, slightly

1147
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,040
conservative on social issues.
Yeah.

1148
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,200
So who the hell do you vote for,
right?

1149
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,520
Like, you want to vote for the
Democrats for socialism, but the

1150
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,360
Republicans are more like, I
don't know about some of these

1151
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,960
sex rules, you know?
Yeah, there's that.

1152
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:54,040
And Italians also came when they
came here, they were considered

1153
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,920
black and anarchists and and we
got lynched and we got faced

1154
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,280
prejudice and there were
political cartoons about how

1155
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,160
we're rats and the mafia.
What type you know is that?

1156
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:06,640
What time period?
When did that happen?

1157
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,520
I you know, I would say
sometimes some of my relatives

1158
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,920
came after the Civil War, but a
lot early 1900s OK, this

1159
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,640
political cartoons of Italians
swimming from a boat through

1160
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,160
Ellis Island onto the pier with
knives in their mouths and the

1161
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,080
mafias tattooed on their heads
and they look like rats.

1162
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,320
And and now, you know, my
relatives are middle class, have

1163
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:34,080
sports cars, jewelry, and they
just want their low taxes and

1164
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,440
they're pretty mean to newer
immigrants.

1165
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:41,640
And it's like we became white.
And so we're like depending on

1166
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,720
where we are, like in Oklahoma,
I'm not white in Oklahoma.

1167
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,040
I'm a weird immigrant who's
Catholic who's going to hell,

1168
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,320
right In New York.
We're like the establishment.

1169
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,280
We're like, we're the law and
order guys in New York because

1170
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,640
this is newer immigrants who got
to keep an eye on them.

1171
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,280
And so, you know, like and
Staten Island, I'm the most

1172
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,280
liberal person among my friends
and in Graduate School, I'm the

1173
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,760
most reactionary person.
So it, you know, but I'm, I'm

1174
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,120
always trying to do the right
thing and I'm always me and so,

1175
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,200
and I'm willing to change.
So it's kind of funny, like you

1176
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:20,880
when you talk about being open
and are you being weak or like,

1177
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,520
I think if your heart's in the
right place and you just take in

1178
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,720
new information, you factored in
and you're still the same

1179
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,160
person.
Like, like, there are some

1180
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,720
people if you shave your
mustache off, you're like, my

1181
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,880
God, you've changed.
And some you should be allowed

1182
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,960
to shave your mustache off.
And so, like, if I say, oh, I've

1183
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,000
switched party affiliation,
people look at me like, you

1184
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,880
know, you're dead to me or
you're not the same guy I grew

1185
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,840
up with.
It's like almost like you're

1186
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,680
coming out, You know, you lied
about your orientation.

1187
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,560
Yeah.
In a way, for years there wasn't

1188
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,320
that much difference between the
two parties.

1189
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,120
Yeah, you know, And so, like,
some of it's baloney.

1190
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,640
I don't know where I'm going
with this, but I guess I'm just.

1191
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,480
Like.
I know I would read the Wonder

1192
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,240
Woman comics after years of
reading The Punisher and being

1193
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,320
years of hardcore, like
listening to conservative radio.

1194
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:17,640
And she reminded me of how cute
70's pop culture was.

1195
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,120
She reminded me of The Muppets.
And I was like, oh, I've, I've

1196
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:25,440
drifted towards the Punisher and
she pulled me back and I did not

1197
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,120
take that as brainwashing.
And I was glad that there are

1198
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,000
different superheroes and
different personalities.

1199
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,480
And I get, I get offended when a
liberal superhero is written by

1200
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,400
a conservative in a stupid way
and vice versa.

1201
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,120
Like I want people to be
faithful to the character.

1202
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,600
So it would be dumb if I wrote
the Punisher as as a hippie, it

1203
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,280
would make no sense.
And so if I would have hired to

1204
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:48,360
write him, I'd write him
correctly.

1205
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,360
And if I were to write Wonder
Woman, I'd make her probably

1206
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,280
more liberal than me to be
faithful because they deserve to

1207
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,920
be treated right.
And so sometimes, like, what if

1208
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:02,280
a Green Arrow movie comes out
and he's not a raving Marxist?

1209
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,200
Something's wrong because dudes
dressed as Robin Hood.

1210
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,080
And I don't understand, like
sometimes people like I didn't

1211
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:12,040
like She Hulk.
What do you think you were going

1212
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,360
to watch?
It's about a green woman who's a

1213
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,720
lawyer and it's a sex comedy.
It's not for you.

1214
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,440
You're not the target.
Demographic, you know, and

1215
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,120
that's it's cool that it's
different That's an important

1216
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,160
thing that's that's an interest.
So that's a really interesting

1217
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,120
point.
I think that there's a huge it's

1218
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:35,760
it's an enormous issue for
Disney studio and going back to

1219
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,080
the conversation that we had
about, you know, the weight of

1220
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,800
establishment versus the freedom
of being able to pursue new

1221
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,000
things.
You could see that Marvel

1222
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,960
Marvel's trying to break it into
different genres and they've

1223
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:49,400
they've been doing it for a long
time.

1224
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,280
And I even noticed the vet ways
that they were doing it.

1225
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,160
But one of the chapters I was
just reading the other day from

1226
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:58,760
that, from that book, superhero
movies in the state was how

1227
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,280
during Ant Man and Ant Man and
the Wasp, there's very little

1228
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,040
violence.
And all the entertainment is

1229
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,480
science based and all the
entertainment is about, you

1230
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,800
know, cool superheroes, men and
female that women, you know,

1231
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:16,000
that are with Black Panther with
Shuri is like this confident,

1232
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,440
peaceful, brilliant scientist
that like is a younger sister

1233
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,440
and black and cool and like
everyone and like, you know,

1234
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,840
sassy with their own
personality.

1235
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,640
And, and, and, and something
that was typically like a Tony

1236
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,480
Stark type role is really,
really being played really well.

1237
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,320
And like what you say and what
you say said really well also

1238
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,360
is, you know, make the
characters themselves and like,

1239
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,720
don't like, you could tell that,
for example, I think Sheree was

1240
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,040
a real was, was written pretty
well for like who she's supposed

1241
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,480
to be.
You know, I think that Michael B

1242
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,480
Jordan's character was also
really great for what he was

1243
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,440
supposed to be.
You know, in in those in those

1244
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:55,200
movies, there are other
characters that kind of go

1245
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,400
through identity crises or like
you don't really know what

1246
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:58,880
they're supposed to be.
And they're not, and they're not

1247
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,880
really written in such a way
that's so convincing that you

1248
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,440
can really feel like you relate
to them.

1249
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,080
And part of the reason why I'm
sure is because this is because

1250
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,160
Disney Corporation is like, hey,
man, we have a formula that says

1251
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,840
that if you do XY and Z at XY
and Z point, we're going to make

1252
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,560
$500 million in this movie.
And every single time that we've

1253
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,840
tried, you know, to do something
else, it's a bomb.

1254
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:20,840
So we're going to do that.
And then Marvel is like, or

1255
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,400
Kevin Feige to, you know, is
like, well, I need to make a She

1256
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,080
Hulk and I need to make Iron Man
and I need them and, and, and I

1257
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,160
need to make a Shang Chi.
And I need to figure out a way

1258
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,840
to tie everyone together for,
for Doomsday.

1259
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,960
And like, we also need to create
an authentic enough character

1260
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,840
that the audience care to show
up for the characters.

1261
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,200
Like they got to speak to people
and like, you got to give me

1262
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,080
time to let this breathe.
And, and to Disney's credit, I

1263
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,440
guess they've done a pretty good
job slowing down the content.

1264
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,680
They've kind of, you know,
instead of being a fire hydrant

1265
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,240
of content, they've done a
really good job limiting it.

1266
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,880
But they've they've got work to
do.

1267
01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:02,040
And I'm really excited about
about James Gunns's DCDCU, just

1268
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,400
to see if it just to see if they
could shake up the studios and

1269
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,240
cause a little competition among
the storytelling.

1270
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,880
And he's presenting versions of
the characters.

1271
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,000
I grew up in the 70s.
Can you these are similarities?

1272
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,160
DC characters in the 70s were
really cute.

1273
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,400
If you think about the Carter's,
Wonder Woman, Christopher Reeve,

1274
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,800
Superman.
You had Crypto, you had

1275
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,400
Supergirl.
Aquaman rode a giant seahorse.

1276
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,200
Wonder Woman had an invisible
plane, Batman had Robin.

1277
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:34,600
And in the 80s, DC felt
competition when Marvel's like

1278
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,800
X-Men was a kind of a dark
comic, so that to kind of catch

1279
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,160
up, they decided to just get rid
of the whimsies.

1280
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,120
So they killed Supergirl, they
had the Joker rape and cripple

1281
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,360
Batgirl.
They killed off Robin.

1282
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,080
He got beaten to death of the
crowbar.

1283
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,800
They they got rid of Aquaman's
seahorse.

1284
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,840
They got rid of Wonder Woman's
invisible plane.

1285
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,640
And it I was like, oh, DC is
turning into Marvel.

1286
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,360
Like they're trying to make
everybody Wolverine, you know,

1287
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,720
and Batman had been cute and The
Dark Knight was really

1288
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,680
depressing and I was shocked by
it, honestly.

1289
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:12,960
And so like, and after 911, they
got even more conservative.

1290
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:19,240
And so DC suddenly like Watchmen
and 24, and then you have Zack

1291
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,480
Snyder, who was pretty
conservative making the movies

1292
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,880
and making them bleak and making
Superman practically a black and

1293
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:29,080
white film, you know?
And now we've got Superman's

1294
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,600
cute again, and there's color
and his dog is back, you know?

1295
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,040
What do you think of that?
You like that?

1296
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,760
Yeah, I didn't think I would
because the dog was the one that

1297
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,280
I felt maybe we don't have to
bring him back.

1298
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,920
But it wound up being adorable
and.

1299
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,440
And honestly, it's so in your
face.

1300
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,720
It wound up being a great
resistance movie to me because

1301
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:56,320
if manliness is not showing
emotion, not showing empathy,

1302
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,800
being the biggest ass kicker,
you know, being afraid of

1303
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,720
everyone you know, being afraid
of diversity and just meeting

1304
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,960
that fear with rage and, and
here's Superman.

1305
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:11,800
Hi, I'm from the reddest state
and my parents probably voted

1306
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,720
for Trump, but we hang out and
have marshmallows.

1307
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:19,520
We get a dog.
My wife's a hot feminist and it

1308
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:23,399
and boy, do we hate that
businessman Lex Luthor, who kind

1309
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:25,359
of reminds us of Elon Musk and
Trump.

1310
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,040
But don't say it too loud, you
know?

1311
01:08:27,319 --> 01:08:29,279
And it's just this really cute
movie.

1312
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,439
And it's a wonderful way of
saying no.

1313
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,279
You can be a man and have a
sense of humor and be kind and

1314
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:37,479
like animals and date a feminist
and not be threatened by her.

1315
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,800
And just by being him and being
colorful and being nice and

1316
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,920
being heterosexual white guy,
like, yeah, that's really

1317
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,680
revolutionary now, right?
Yeah.

1318
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,200
And and so and.
But on the one hand, you're

1319
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,080
like, how is that political?
He's just decent.

1320
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:55,800
Yeah.
Oh, my God, you can't be more

1321
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:57,479
political than that.
Like, I'm the one.

1322
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,720
You know what I mean?
So I can see both arguments

1323
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,800
about that movie, Like, damn,
that's in your face.

1324
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,520
And also I'm like, I don't know.
It's just kind of nice.

1325
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:08,960
I felt that the the newest
Captain America movie was much

1326
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:14,279
more in your face than than the
Superman movie was I?

1327
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:18,240
I don't know.
Yeah, that's right.

1328
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:20,439
That's right.
I don't know nothing.

1329
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,200
Political there.
And you know what's interesting?

1330
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,720
And, and it's like I pointed out
to my friends and they're like,

1331
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,200
no, man, you're just seeing
things.

1332
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,479
And then I realized that like so
many people watch these movies

1333
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,439
and just don't get the context.
And like, I didn't either.

1334
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,120
And I'm showing my my.
And I didn't realize that Iron

1335
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:41,640
Man was a million, a military
industrial complex commercial

1336
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,960
about excuses to go to
Afghanistan and neoliberal, you

1337
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:50,279
know, imperialistic philosophy.
And I'm like, and I'm and I'm

1338
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,200
showing this to my students.
They're like, I don't remember

1339
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:53,720
this about Iron Man.
I'm like, yeah, well, it's a

1340
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,880
great movie.
And I'm like, but like, like,

1341
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,680
just pay attention to like the
values and like, look at this

1342
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,400
great scientist dying with the
American flag behind his head.

1343
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,480
And he's like, do it for my
family and the people.

1344
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:06,520
And you're like, you're like,
wait, why are you even in

1345
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,720
Afghanistan to begin with, dude?
Like what are you doing here?

1346
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,400
What are you doing here?
So the whole thing is, the whole

1347
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:16,600
thing is really interesting,
that they've always been

1348
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:17,880
political.
The question is whether your

1349
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,000
eyes are open to it, I guess.
Why?

1350
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,080
And, and it's part of what's
popular at a given time.

1351
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,600
And you know, like, so like, I
really held on to the fact that

1352
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,520
I like Wonder Woman and I like
the Super Friends and I like the

1353
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,240
Fantastic Four cartoon.
So when I started collecting in

1354
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:34,000
the 80s, I was looking for that
stuff.

1355
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,640
And I was disappointed when I
couldn't find the DC heroes, but

1356
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,800
I could find the recognizable
Marvel ones.

1357
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:45,280
But like, people were drawn in
the 80s were so into violence

1358
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,720
that who was big Wolverine,
Venom, Deadpool, Right?

1359
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,960
And I was like, wow, that's kind
of violent for me.

1360
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,120
Like I like Kitty Pry to the
X-Men because she's cute and I'd

1361
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,320
like to go to the prom with her,
even though she's fictional.

1362
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:03,480
Or I like Nightcrawler because
he's like funny and he is

1363
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:06,760
athletic and he's Catholic like
me or And so I was drawn to just

1364
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,560
different stuff than the other
people.

1365
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:15,760
And so, yeah, but so I, I think
on some level people get the

1366
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,720
politics because they could at
the base go, I'm black, I like

1367
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,120
Bishop, he's black, right?
Like that kind of thing when

1368
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,040
I'll be like, Bishop doesn't
have that big a part.

1369
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,040
Is he that interesting?
But I get it.

1370
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,680
Like he looks, you know, I
can't, it's fine.

1371
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,760
I like Nightcrawler.
He's German.

1372
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,520
I'm part German, you know, so
there's that.

1373
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,440
But sometimes, like you, you get
the message and you're like, oh,

1374
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,840
I was hoping my hero didn't vote
that way.

1375
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,360
And it's an interesting moment.
And you're like, do I decide I

1376
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,800
don't like that here or now?
Do I change how I vote?

1377
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,160
What does this mean?
It's a weird, especially if it's

1378
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,640
a hero and an American flag.
And then there were a lot of

1379
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,160
Republicans who love Captain
America and Superman for the

1380
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,600
patriotism.
And I was at a comic store

1381
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,640
overhearing an argument where
this one guy says to the owner,

1382
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,120
I don't know, man.
I think Superman's got to be

1383
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,720
Republican because he's
patriotic.

1384
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,600
And my friend, my friend on the
store was like, his wife's a

1385
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,160
feminist, his dad was an
environmentalist nobody listened

1386
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,480
to.
And the planet blew up, like,

1387
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:20,960
you know, like this pretty
liberal stuff.

1388
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,680
And he goes, well, at least
Captain America's Republican.

1389
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,680
And he's a dude.
He's a bigger pink out in

1390
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,600
Superman.
His best friend's a black power

1391
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,080
guy.
And they're always beating up

1392
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:32,840
Klansmen.
What are you talking about?

1393
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:38,440
You know, so so, but if you're
making an action movie and you

1394
01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:40,600
can zone out during the
conversations that are

1395
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:44,640
political, then you come back
for the 40 minutes CGI fight

1396
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:48,400
scene, it feels more comforting.
Yeah.

1397
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,520
That was great when he threw
that guy off a roof, you know,

1398
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:53,960
then you're not challenged by
that.

1399
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,720
But then there's also the person
and what I think Marvel did

1400
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,480
really well for a while and
they, I, I don't think they were

1401
01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:01,680
able to keep it up because I
don't think I think they were

1402
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,240
rushing out content too quickly.
They had really, really

1403
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:06,040
phenomenal character
development.

1404
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:10,400
And then you'd get attached to
the character like the the the

1405
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,520
more like there's also morality
baked into a lot of the stories

1406
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:16,600
and character development aside
from the politics.

1407
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,160
And so a lot of people would get
very invested in like Iron Man's

1408
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:22,520
development or Captain America's
changing over the over the

1409
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,320
course of his over the course of
the movies.

1410
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,640
And like especially good because
you're carrying it through and

1411
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:32,720
and the and MCU is the first
real example of so many of such

1412
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,280
a huge library all intersecting
and all, you know, a related

1413
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:40,320
world on film.
And, you know, like even with

1414
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:43,440
Captain America Civil War, I
never thought of that movie as a

1415
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:45,880
political movie.
I thought the Civil War was just

1416
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:51,880
about, about, about Tony feeling
that Captain America and Bucky

1417
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:55,000
were murderers and Captain
America and, and, and really

1418
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,640
came to the question the
morality of if someone behaves,

1419
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:00,760
how much does intention matter
in action?

1420
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,760
If someone doesn't know that
they're participating in

1421
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,480
something wrong, If someone
can't control what they're

1422
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:07,360
doing, but the physical body
does it, you know, like, what

1423
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:09,240
are the consequences?
And I ended up thinking, and I

1424
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,440
loved Iron Man.
I was like, I get where he's

1425
01:14:11,440 --> 01:14:13,440
coming from.
He can't emotionally separate

1426
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:15,240
himself in the fact he's like,
yeah, but it's my mom, you know,

1427
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,840
like, he doesn't care.
Like, at that point, I'm not

1428
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,200
talking out of any kind of
rational kind of place.

1429
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:24,040
I'm talking like, I just can't
control this emotion that you

1430
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,880
killed my mom.
And Captain America is like,

1431
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:28,920
dude, it wasn't even him.
Like it wasn't him.

1432
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,680
So.
So I think that there's that

1433
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,160
they do a really good, they've
done a really good job of

1434
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,080
creating these personality
developments that I think people

1435
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,360
wish they could make themselves.
And like you said, like, what do

1436
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:45,520
I do?
I'm a Springsteen nut.

1437
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,680
I'm a Springsteen nut.
And, you know, for years and

1438
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,040
years and years, and at the
time, at the time that I was

1439
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,560
really into his music, I was
more conservative politically

1440
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,160
and I would and every time, you
know, I'd bring him up telling

1441
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:00,920
my friends like, Oh yeah, you
know, he hates Trump.

1442
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:03,200
He hates Trump.
I'm like, who cares, dude?

1443
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,280
Did you read, did you read the
lyrics to Thunder Rd.

1444
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,960
Do you ever listen to you ever
listen to perform 10th Ave.

1445
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,280
Freeze out?
What are you talking about,

1446
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:10,800
dude?
Like, like this isn't like a

1447
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,800
conversation as to whether you
how he voted.

1448
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:16,080
I was like this guy like he's
Springsteen, you know, and and

1449
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,480
so like, yeah, my my hero.
And you know what?

1450
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:23,000
And, and, and at the end of the
day, like I, I kind of wish that

1451
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,800
he had the similar opinion to
me, you know, but at the end of

1452
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,120
the day, what makes him him is
him.

1453
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:28,640
And like, we're going to fight
with that.

1454
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:31,640
Yeah.
I think for me it's because

1455
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:35,160
since I've been in hardcore,
both sides and even extreme

1456
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,080
versions of both sides, Yeah.
And been really religious,

1457
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,160
really secular, like I've been
bouncing around.

1458
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,160
I think where I'm consistent is
I just want to feel like your

1459
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,680
heart's in the right place or
that like maybe you get

1460
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,800
different info than me, right?
Like, and based on your info,

1461
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,080
you, you're doing the best you
can, right?

1462
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:57,280
So like, if I'm in a religious
phase and I see there's an

1463
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:03,000
atheist who I like a lot who's
doing beautiful things, my, my

1464
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,160
way of reconciling is kind of
going, man, that atheist is a

1465
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:07,760
better Catholic than most
Catholics.

1466
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,280
Yeah, right.
And I'm cool with that, Right.

1467
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:16,240
And so like, you know, if, if,
if you, if you're nervous about

1468
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:21,280
Trump and and Lynn Cheney's
helping you, I don't know how

1469
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,000
much time you got to spend
going, you know, I don't like

1470
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,920
her politics.
Like freaking shelve that for

1471
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:28,440
now.
You know, at least that's sort

1472
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:30,640
of my view.
Like take an opportunity.

1473
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:32,440
If you have an opportunity to
connect, take it.

1474
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:38,520
You know, unless their view is
like, I want to kill everybody

1475
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,080
with slightly graying hair and
you've got slightly graying

1476
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:43,960
hair.
That's a big ask, you know?

1477
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:47,960
So like there's only so much I'm
willing to ask, say like black

1478
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,800
people to accept from ex Trump
supporters.

1479
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,560
Like you can be mad.
You know, it's easier for me to

1480
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,160
forgive, but, and I think you'd
try to look for what you have in

1481
01:16:58,160 --> 01:16:59,560
common.
And, and, and yeah,

1482
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,960
Springsteen's just a cool
working class guy.

1483
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:06,080
It's kind of like like working
class conservatives kind of

1484
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,680
liking Bernie Sanders and
Michael Moore because they're

1485
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:13,440
cool working class guys, right.
So The funny thing is, if you

1486
01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:16,440
asked somebody in the 90s what
the first Marvel movie should

1487
01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:20,320
be, they would say the first one
should be Venom and Deadpool and

1488
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,160
Wolverine.
And when I went to Marvel

1489
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,280
Studios to visit my friend, they
said we're launching our own

1490
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:28,440
studio now.
They had already made movies

1491
01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:30,880
with other studios of people.
I like, like Daredevil,

1492
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:34,320
Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider.
So I'm like, OK, well, there

1493
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,880
were we're doing who's left?
And I'm like, who's left?

1494
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:42,960
And they're like, we're going to
launch our studio with Iron Man,

1495
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,240
Captain America and Thor.
And I'm like, that sounds

1496
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:52,720
terrible because I was sort of
like the white Army guys and

1497
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:58,080
Thor is the invincible God guy.
Like what about Spider Man?

1498
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,240
What, like your big guns?
Where are they?

1499
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:02,600
We just had two bad Fantastic
Four movies.

1500
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:04,440
Why don't you just make a good
Fantastic Four?

1501
01:18:04,440 --> 01:18:07,960
Movie, are you aware of the
business aspect of it, of the

1502
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,720
fact that studios didn't have
the rights, like they didn't

1503
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,840
have the rights to Spider Man or
It's a Fantastic Four at that?

1504
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,240
Point Yeah, they had to do it.
And I think they made an Ant Man

1505
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,240
movie because they didn't have
the rights to Spider Man.

1506
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,520
Yeah, and they caused.
That's Paul Rudd, because he

1507
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:20,760
would have been a good Peter
Parker.

1508
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,240
So I think that's the.
And I think they did Guardians

1509
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,440
of the Galaxy because they
didn't have Fantastic Four.

1510
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,600
Yeah, well.
Yeah, they had to.

1511
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,640
They had to find, they had to
dig deeper into the library

1512
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:36,640
because when Marvel was going
broke, they sold off the rights

1513
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:40,120
to film characters individually
to different studios.

1514
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,720
And in there and in there was
the clause that if you don't

1515
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,680
make a movie, I think every
three or four years, the rights

1516
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,240
of the characters go back to
Marvel.

1517
01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:50,040
So Marvel got a bunch of
characters back, which ended up

1518
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,920
making including guardians and
including and then I think

1519
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:55,240
Disney ended up buying The
Avengers from Paramount.

1520
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,480
But but, but Sony never stopped
making spider man movies.

1521
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:04,400
And spider man has been a multi
billion dollar franchise for,

1522
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,040
for for Sony.
And they're not giving that up

1523
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:08,160
ever, ever.
You know the.

1524
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:11,840
Funny thing is, is this, as
somebody who loves Spider Man

1525
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:15,240
with Fantastic Four and as a kid
was indifferent to The Avengers,

1526
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,960
I was kind of glad that they
sort of had their own pockets of

1527
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,840
the Marvel Universe.
Yeah, because Spider Man's one

1528
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,200
of those guys.
You want to feel like if

1529
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:29,600
Godzilla comes to New York, he's
stuck defending New York alone

1530
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,440
and he's no way he could defeat
Godzilla, How's he going to do

1531
01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:34,360
it?
Like that kind of threat in the

1532
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:37,360
comics, it's like the Juggernaut
or Fire Lord or Sandman, right?

1533
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,920
That kind of threat, Right.
And sometimes the Hulk.

1534
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,360
But if the if The Avengers are
there, who needs Spider Man,

1535
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,400
right?
And so I didn't like that he was

1536
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:53,000
in a shared universe.
And with the X-Men, if they're

1537
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,320
the only super powered people,
then fear of the X-Men makes

1538
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:58,880
total sense.
If the Hulk's running around in

1539
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,000
a way, who the heck cares about
mutants?

1540
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,120
Like none of them are friendly,
right?

1541
01:20:04,480 --> 01:20:08,000
So I think.
The the Sony and Fox did a

1542
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,160
pretty good job all things
considered.

1543
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:15,600
Like there's more good movies
than bad movies, which I didn't

1544
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,480
used to think.
But I think if you look on

1545
01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:20,480
balance, like the TV show Gifted
is really good.

1546
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,360
That's the X-Men show.
So what's it on You could folk?

1547
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,920
I mean, it was like a Fox Show,
I guess.

1548
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:32,520
And it was, it's just, it's
about a regular family and the

1549
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,520
the dad's a conservative who
doesn't like mutants and he

1550
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:38,200
doesn't know his kids and
mutants.

1551
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,760
And they're outed.
They're outed in the school by a

1552
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,640
bully.
And the Sentinels come to arrest

1553
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,800
the kids because just being a
mutant's a crime.

1554
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:50,640
And suddenly this Republican
guy's got to guard his kids from

1555
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:55,600
the cops, and he winds up
becoming a traitor to his party

1556
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,440
and his government, and they go
on the run.

1557
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,800
And the very people he was
trying to arrest last week, he's

1558
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:03,120
going to for shelter.
Yeah.

1559
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,200
And I just thought that I was
like, wow, this is a great

1560
01:21:05,480 --> 01:21:06,600
concept.
Watch that.

1561
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,360
That sounds great.
Actually, that sounds.

1562
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,080
Really cool.
Yeah, and they pick unusual

1563
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,360
mutants, but they're all kind of
interesting like like Blink and

1564
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,360
the warpath and but somehow it's
really good.

1565
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,200
So yeah, so I I was glad they
were separate.

1566
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:23,320
And The funny thing is.
And that once Spider Man comes

1567
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:26,480
in, he's way too and mashed and
all this Avengers stuff.

1568
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:30,000
Like to the point now where I'm
like, please, can we have a

1569
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,040
gangster movie?
Please can we have a gangster?

1570
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:35,760
When's he going to fight Kingpin
and Tombstone and and?

1571
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,120
Oh, that's an interesting.
It's a great genre they haven't

1572
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,560
tapped into really.
It was the first.

1573
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,520
Run he was fighting all his mad
scientist villains, which is

1574
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:48,360
cool and he certainly does, and
those are his main ones.

1575
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:50,840
But he does have a lot of
gangster villains.

1576
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,640
I mean, Daredevil took some of
that from him, but and The

1577
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:55,880
Punisher took some of that from
him.

1578
01:21:55,880 --> 01:22:00,000
But they all belong very well
together on the street with Luke

1579
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:04,520
Cage and Jessica Jones.
And I'm just waiting for what I

1580
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,400
want is a movie where the
kingpins trying to take Harlem

1581
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:11,320
from Luke Cage and Luke asks
Spider Man, Daredevil and

1582
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:14,920
Jessica Jones and the Punisher
for help and they fight May or

1583
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:15,960
Fisk.
Like that's what.

1584
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,040
I want to say yeah.
And you know what all the

1585
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,160
context is there too.
I mean, you have you have you

1586
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,920
have the film in cinematic
history that's already or

1587
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,200
library that's already existed.
It's not too far.

1588
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:27,200
It's far.
It's far from a stretch to make

1589
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:28,360
that happen.
Would you?

1590
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:29,560
What do you think of the
Penguin?

1591
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:34,880
You know what's so funny?
As an Italian, I've got this

1592
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,720
beef against mafia stuff.
Like I love.

1593
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:42,640
I do love like Donnie Brasco and
I and the book The Godfather,

1594
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:44,920
and there's a lot of cool
gangster stuff out there.

1595
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,000
But I'm going to be embarrassed
to say that while I can't watch

1596
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,320
The Sopranos, for whatever
reason, I find it triggering.

1597
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,280
I can't watch Goodfellas.
I don't know why I find it

1598
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,360
triggering.
I freaking love gangsters in the

1599
01:22:56,360 --> 01:23:00,720
Batman universe, which in theory
they're the worst ones, are the

1600
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,520
most cartoony.
But I'm like, oh, Catwoman's

1601
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,480
half Italian, you know?
And I thought the performances,

1602
01:23:07,480 --> 01:23:09,800
that was the actresses of
Christina Melodi.

1603
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,480
I don't Kristen Melodi she
plays.

1604
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:16,360
I Met Your Mother and she was
original life in the And The

1605
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,520
Wolf on Wall Street.
Yeah, and she played the hangman

1606
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,360
and.
And I was like, she's going to

1607
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:23,600
get an Emmy or something for
this.

1608
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:24,640
She was.
Amazing edible.

1609
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:26,920
She was incredible.
I thought that's great.

1610
01:23:27,440 --> 01:23:30,960
I thought that show was the best
of H of HBO and the best of

1611
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:35,120
comic of comic content.
You know, I thought that I loved

1612
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:37,280
that show.
It was so.

1613
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,080
It was so authentically HBO is
so well done.

1614
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,480
I can imagine people who don't
know it's a Batman show and

1615
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:45,800
watch it.
That's a great gangster show,

1616
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,120
and you're like, that's a Batman
show to be like, huh, That's how

1617
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:52,120
realistic and well done it was.
Yeah, I'm really excited for I,

1618
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,320
I, I, I hope that they continue
that trajectory.

1619
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:57,840
And it's going to be
interesting, especially if

1620
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,480
Netflix buys it, because
Netflix, Netflix has a really

1621
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,960
interesting history of take of,
of embracing the gory side of

1622
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:11,960
comic book characters.
And I, I, I mean, I'm sure with

1623
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:15,000
your aversion to violence, what
do you think of John Bernthal's

1624
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,200
Punisher?
Oh, but he's great.

1625
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:20,760
And in fact, like I loved.
Him by that I thought he was

1626
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:25,760
incredible I.
Yeah, I mean, portrayal, I mean,

1627
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,840
my chapter I kind of wrote, Gee,
you know, there's some weird

1628
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:33,040
stuff with immigration and the
Punisher that could lead to some

1629
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,160
dark places.
And after I wrote that chapter,

1630
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,360
police officers started wearing
Punisher shirts.

1631
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,400
And I'd sort of, I'd be like,
wow, I guess I called that one.

1632
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,360
But what's cool about the
Punisher now is he's like

1633
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,360
morally offended by the cops who
wear his logo.

1634
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:51,320
And he says it and makes no
bones about it.

1635
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,000
And his acting is so funny.
Who John Burns and the love

1636
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:59,400
triangle with the love triangle
with Daredevil and him and Karen

1637
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,080
Page is funny.
And just to have Daredevil ask

1638
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,280
him if he's got any oat milk
everything.

1639
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:10,480
So and and they the comic book,
it's always weird.

1640
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:12,960
Spider Man and Daredevil team up
with him and he's machine

1641
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,760
gunning hundreds of people and
they're not commenting on it.

1642
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,400
So in the last season when
Daredevil was shot, he's dying

1643
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:22,760
and the Punisher's killing
people to protect them.

1644
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,600
And Daredevil's like, maybe hold
back and the Punisher's like,

1645
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,840
shut up.
It was really realistic.

1646
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:33,040
Yeah, that's probably an over
long answer, but I think he's

1647
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:37,200
one of the best cast this some
great cast superheroes.

1648
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:40,080
But I would say the best is like
him Iron Man.

1649
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:42,000
We've had some great Spider
Man's.

1650
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:42,840
Would you?
Yeah.

1651
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:44,280
Who's your favorite?
Who's your favorite?

1652
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:48,280
Spider man, Jeez.
I love.

1653
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,560
Toby because I sort of
commissioned the first movie.

1654
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:56,800
Like when when it was announced
in the 90s, like Cameron is

1655
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:59,560
going to make a Spider Man movie
with Leonardo DiCaprio and it's

1656
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:03,680
going to be Electro and Sandman.
My first reaction was like

1657
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,600
Cameron.
It should be a horror comedy

1658
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,360
director who's a ugly, nerdy
actor.

1659
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:14,640
It should be Tobey Maguire.
With Sam Raimi or something.

1660
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,320
Yeah, I didn't call Sam Raimi,
but I said somebody, oh, I know.

1661
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:19,880
I picked the director of Fright
Night.

1662
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,520
It was Tom Holland, which is
kind of funny.

1663
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:26,360
So I picked a Tom Holland and
like, yeah, I was like, it

1664
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,760
should be the Green Goblin and
it should be Mary Jane getting

1665
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:30,920
thrown off a bridge, but she
shouldn't die.

1666
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,280
Like and I said and Kirsten Dunn
should be Mary Jane and like,

1667
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:37,120
that's exactly.
And I said, just cast a scary

1668
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:39,280
middle-aged guy for Green
Goblin.

1669
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,760
And so I'm watching a movie.
I'm like, wow, I dreamt this.

1670
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:45,400
It was so weird.
That's so I'm always going to

1671
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:49,320
like him.
But Garfield's hilarious.

1672
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,120
Like, he's so cool.
Like, he might be the best actor

1673
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:55,600
who's played Spider Man, I
guess.

1674
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,840
But in a way, we haven't had a
bad Spider Man.

1675
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:04,040
No, no, I, Tom Holland, Spider
Man is what got me into Marvel

1676
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,560
movies to begin with.
Actually.

1677
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,480
There's too much of AI, had too
much of A stigma against

1678
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:13,520
superhero characters.
And then I watched Spider Man.

1679
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:18,680
I was like, this is so real.
And it came out, I think while I

1680
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:23,880
was maybe just in the middle of
college, so high school was

1681
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,400
still pretty fresh in my mind
and I was a very, very awkward

1682
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,120
high schooler.
And I was like this kid, like,

1683
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,680
especially as he's learning how
to like, use his power, like his

1684
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,440
powers in the scene where he's
running and like he keeps on

1685
01:27:34,440 --> 01:27:36,680
like crashing through bushes in
the pool and knocking over

1686
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:38,560
porch, you know, lawn chairs and
stuff like that.

1687
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:43,080
And I'm like, this is so great.
It's a imperfect superhero.

1688
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:47,400
Like, I love that, you know,
like I thought, oh man, and and

1689
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,000
and.
I'm trying to talk chummy to

1690
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,280
people during the combat and
civil war.

1691
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:57,200
Hey guys, doing guys like.
He's he's written really well,

1692
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:00,160
acted really, really well.
It's such a well done character.

1693
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,240
And he was the character I was
wished was Italian.

1694
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:06,000
And then like, well, suddenly
Marisa Tomez, Aunt May and Jon

1695
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:08,320
Favreau is dating her.
I was like, it's kind of an

1696
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:10,120
honor.
There you go.

1697
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:13,040
There you go.
Mike.

1698
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:15,040
I gotta run.
This is so much fun getting to

1699
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,080
talk to you a little bit.
This is such a pleasant, such a

1700
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:21,000
really wonderful conversation.
And thank you so much for the

1701
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:22,760
time and it's really great
getting to meet you and I hope

1702
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:24,760
we can do this again.
Definitely.

1703
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:26,680
It's been a blast.
Thanks so much for talking to me

1704
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:28,080
and you have a cool day and
everything.

1705
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:29,280
All right.
Take care, man.

1706
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:30,440
Thank you so much.
Bye.

1707
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:30,960
Thanks.