Entertainment Series 3: Eric Kline

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together

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and we are live with Eric Klein.
Eric, welcome to Mr. Klein.

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Rather, thank you so much for
joining me.

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I really appreciate it.
Thanks for making the time.

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How are you today?
I'm great, thanks for having me

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on the show.
Of course, of course, I'm so

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happy to have you here.
So you, I, I did some, I did

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some homework on, on your, on
your pretty illustrious career,

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I guess over the last 35 years.
And one thing that I, that I

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really found to be so impressive
and so creative and so

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entrepreneurial is that it, it
looks to me at least that you've

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got this amazing skill of
storytelling and particularly

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behind the camera.
And then and you, and then, and

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then there's actual application
of however anyone wants a story

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to be told, right?
And story time can be done in a

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ton of different ways.
We've done the marketing can be

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done as music videos.
It can be done as a documentary

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or as a film.
And so I just wanted to ask, I

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guess when you got started off
in this industry, was there a

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particular, was there a
particular passion that you had,

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a particular direction you
wanted ahead and how did you get

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to be, how did you get to wear
so many hats?

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Yeah, Well, yeah, Thank you.
First off, you know, I

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definitely was enamored with
music and music videos.

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I was sort of influenced by, you
know, one of my older cousins

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who was a singer-songwriter and
veterinarian out in LA named Doc

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Lawrence.
And he gave me a guitar when I

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was 17.
And so it turned me on to

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Springsteen and Bon Jovi and all
that.

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So I was really, I was really
into the singer-songwriter.

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And when I got into college, I
started to pursue doing visuals

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to augment, you know, MTV was,
was sort of a fever pitch in the

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late 80s, having started in 81.
So, you know, I started doing a

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lot of music videos for college
and whatnot.

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And my senior project was, was
one of my cousin's songs, Go,

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Where did the sound go?
And it was, you know, we were at

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FIU at the time.
And so we were down in Miami and

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it lended itself.
It was a homeless themed video.

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You know, you're a little young,
you may not remember, but the

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Camillus House, which is still
there, but it's a much bigger

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building.
It was for homeless that people

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would come in and literally
across the way from the old

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Miami Arena.
So we went down there, I don't

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know, 7 or 8 times during the
course of the semester and shot

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hours and hours of just B roll
of, you know, the homeless

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flight of the homeless and dot
dot dot became a music video

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and, and that, you know,
started.

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I was like, wow, this is, you
know, it's a great feeling to to

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take someone's song and, and
create visuals for it.

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And so I started to pursue that
path pretty passionately.

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And then, you know, that led me
to meet Max Goose, who was at

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FIU at the time and, and Max
introduced me to Video Jukebox

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Network, which became the box.
And that was sort of the

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beginning of my career in 1991.
Wow, wow, wow, wow.

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There's a whole lot to unpack
over there.

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First of all, I love the, I love
the, what do you call?

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I love the, the music influence
first, especially because, and I

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mean that while you were
speaking once.

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I'm a massive Springsteen fan
myself.

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Yeah.
I could say safely that he had

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changed my life when I was 21.
I was, I graduated college.

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I was lost.
I had no idea what I wanted to

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do with myself.
I had a quid writing and

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literature degree.
And my uncle had passed away and

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my grandfather giving me a bunch
of his records, his old vinyls,

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and I got my hands.
I'm born to run.

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There you go.
And one of the first things that

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I, oh, yeah.
And one of the first things I

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and that I, that I would look
at, look at while I was reading

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the book.
I was reading the, the lyrics,

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you know, on this, on the record
sleeve while I was playing.

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It was how cinematic the entire
album was and how all his how

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all his lyrics and poetry would
just create this, you know,

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these scenes and vibrant images
in my head and and, you know,

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and, and I really, and then, you
know, I really felt that he was,

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I felt that he could have been a
movie, you know, a screenwriter.

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I felt like he could have really
come up with some, you know, the

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whole Born to Run album could
have really been a film, you

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know, and it would have been
amazing.

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Yeah, no, I mean, that's, that's
such a, it's an interesting

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point.
I mean, born to run, it was like

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a Seminole moment in his career
for me.

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It's like, you know, the river
born to run or born in the USA.

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Those are my, you know, I mean,
Bruce was like you, you know,

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just such an incredible
inspiration to me.

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You know, just the messages of
of what he was, you know,

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illustrating.
I got into him in the Born in

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the USA era and I sort of went
back and, and now, you know, now

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he's, you know, he's always been
a socially conscious guy.

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And that really fed into, you
know, what I was trying to do as

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well as a younger kid, you know,
with like we are, if you

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remember, we are the world,
which again, was sort of before

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your era, but I was really
influenced and that was right

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around the time, you know, I was
in high school.

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So Bruce has been much like
yourself, just an, you know, an

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immeasurable influence to me.
Yeah, that was he watched that

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documentary that was released on
Amazon recently, about maybe a

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year ago.
About yeah, the road, the world.

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I thought that was yeah, Rd.
Diary was great, yeah.

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And then now in October, they've
got really the first biopic, you

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know, depicting the, you know,
the Nebraska and what would be

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the Born in the USA sessions
coming out.

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Deliver me from nowhere.
So yeah, incredible.

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Yeah, I'm very excited about
that.

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Oh yeah, I'm very.
Excited.

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Oh yeah, me too.
What's what's the gentleman's

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name that's starring?
I forgot his name.

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He he was great in the bear.
Great actors.

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An iron claw.
Jeremy.

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Jeremy Allen.
White Yeah.

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Jeremy Allen White.
I just saw the first trailer to

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it yesterday.
It's incredible.

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Awesome.
I'm very excited about it.

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Yeah, I'm very excited about it.
What kind of what kind of

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homework do you do?
I know obviously based on the

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project it, you know, because I
know I want to talk to you a

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little bit about two heads or
better than one also.

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But in terms of the, I mean, you
know, whether you're making a

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music video or a documentary or,
you know, you're just trying to

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think about a project, you know,
what kind of what kind of

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homework do you have to do based
on each assignment that you do?

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And you know, is it is it, is it
research?

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Is it interviews?
Is it like what you did with

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your first, with your first, you
know, music video where you kind

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of just camp out and get a lot
of footage?

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Yeah, no, it's a good question.
I you know, it depends on the

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situation.
I mean, and you know, 30, you

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know, 36 years later, you know,
after doing that music video and

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you know, just it's a different
universe today, but you know, we

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have access to more information.
Sometimes it's not all real

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information, of course, with the
Internet.

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But no, I absolutely try to do a
lot of homework on on everything

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I do.
You know, if I can meet the the

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artist or the individual, the
subject, you get really a better

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sense, you know, in person to me
with everything, whether it's

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this or, you know, going the
other extreme of, you know,

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dating people or, you know,
business partnerships that

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people do virtually.
It's it's almost, you know, if

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you don't have that sense of who
they are as an individual or

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what they're trying to
communicate, you know, that that

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to me is paramount.
And then, you know, research is,

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is obviously important, looking
at their prior work and, and

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what or music or whatever the
situation would be.

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And sometimes it's a little
tougher if they're not in your

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state.
So I tend to be more fluid as

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to, you know, being able to
travel these days.

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Now that we're, you know, I
mean, it's great to, to do stuff

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like this, which, you know, I
mean, you and I are based in the

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same state, even though I'm all
over the place.

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But you know, we're going to
hopefully get a high quality

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product for your podcast and,
you know, just doing audio.

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So it's, I think flexibility is
the key.

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You know, in, in, in this day
and age and different, different

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generations, you know, my
parents generation, your parents

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generation, you know, my
generation, yours, you know,

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everything's a little different.
So having flexibility, I think

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is really the key.
But I pretty much do whatever I

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have to do to get a sense of,
you know, inside the artist's

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head or inside the subjects, you
know, mind at that point.

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Right.
And when you look at these

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projects, do you look at that,
for example, if someone hires

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you to do a music video, you
know, are you looking at this

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typically?
I have you found often that they

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want creative control over, you
know, the, I guess the

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cinematography or they, you
know, they tend to just be kind

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of hands off and just want to
see the final product that you

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come up with.
Yeah.

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Because I can imagine that.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
You know, it's a good question.

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I think back in in the 90s when
I started, you know, the budgets

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were significantly large and
they are now course technology

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is is driven it down in terms of
the cost to do these things.

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Still though, you can, you can
look at, you know, a music video

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today and you can see the
quality on the camera or on

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screen.
Excuse me or or not, but yeah.

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I mean, it's like back then you
would deal with the artist and

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then you would deal with the
record company and vis A vis

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the, you know, the manager.
So whether it's like Mariah or

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Bon Jovi, it's like, you know,
I'm dealing with the label and

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then I'm sitting with the
artist, working with the artist

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and you know, they would feed
through, you know, their manager

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in some cases.
Call me.

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Hey, Eric, you know, let's chat
about this and you know, it's,

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it's a, it's an integration of,
of everybody's ideas.

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You're there to help execute
against an idea with which you

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pitched.
So you're basically submit a

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pitch to the cons for the
concept.

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The the label first looks at a
manager artist and and then they

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say, Hey, we like this.
Let's let's work around that.

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And you know, it's and then it
becomes, you know, first first

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cut, second cut, final cut.
You know, when you're a

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director, producer for an artist
is always that process.

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When you're doing a documentary,
most of the time you know the

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subject is not really involved
other than you know, they're

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talking, you're getting
information background and then

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they're them or their
representative will have and you

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want them to have an input as
things you know, you start

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editing and what not.
So it's always a, it's a

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collaborative process and I like
that.

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I'm not against that.
I think artists today have more

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artists on the music side have
more creative control because a

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lot of the times they're paying
for the music videos directly

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and certainly indirectly as a
recoupment of, you know, the

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money that say, Columbia Records
or Sony's going to put out.

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So it just depends on the
dynamic when you're dealing with

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the streamer streaming situation
like Amazon, Netflix and Hulu.

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If you go to them with a project
and you sell it to them, it's

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one thing.
If you they pay for it, they are

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absolutely integrated into the
entire process.

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Sure, and they're going to do
whatever they want with well.

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I don't know, whatever they
want, I think it's, again, you

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know, they're going to have
final say unless there's a, you

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know, big name attached to it,
you know, say an artist attached

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to it.
It just depends on the

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situation.
But you know the old saying,

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whoever you know, whoever's
paying the bills has the final

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say so.
Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah.
Money talks, Lenny.

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Lenny certainly talks when it
comes to documentaries.

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I feel like, you know, and I
guess you made that point.

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I even think about it while you
were talking about it, but when

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it comes to documentaries, I
guess there would be some kind

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of conflict of interest, right?
If someone's getting them, you

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know, especially if the
individual is alive or if

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they're fit, if you're dealing
with their estate, then, you

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know, there might be something
that makes them, you know, not

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look as great as they would have
wanted.

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Or maybe they, you know,
misunderstood or misrepresented.

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You know, how do you deal with
with, do you ever have to deal

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with those kind of conflicts?
And if you do, how do you work?

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How do you work with them
around?

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That, you know, back in the in
the 90s, I would do, you know,

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these shorter documentaries
like, you know, again, you know,

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there's their layers of people
with an art with a big name

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artist, say like Mariah Carey,
we did a documentary on her in

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Japan.
And so there were a lot of

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layers to that, but it was
pretty seamless ultimately

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because it's.
Yeah, we all had the same goal

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00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,480
in mind, really no conflict of
interest.

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Like you said, if someone passes
away, are you doing something on

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somebody that has passed away,
let's say like Tupac or, and you

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know, whoever it may be, you
know, then you deal like you're

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saying with their estate and
they're the legal people with

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the estate or the, you know,
the, the, the parents or the

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siblings or, you know, the
descendants of the individual.

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00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,880
But I haven't really had to deal
with that per SE, you know, at

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00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,880
this point.
But you know, we have a, a big

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project I'll share with you
once.

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We'll maybe we'll do another one
of these when it comes out, But

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I'm going to be dealing with,
with a mix of, you know,

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yesterday, today and, and
tomorrow's artists.

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00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,960
So you know, it, it's you have
to sort of be cognizant that,

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00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,360
you know, people's images are
there and you have to respect

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00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,440
it.
Unfortunately, we're in a

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climate now where you know, most
of the the news driven things

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are the social media driven
things.

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And I'm on social.
So I'm not one of these guys

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that go out, you know, I'm in my
50s.

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00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,160
I'm not going to be on social
media now I'm on, I'm in

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engaged.
I work it, I use it, you know,

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and and I network on you network
on it, and but I see, I also see

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what you know, algorithmically.
It's very difficult to, you

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00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,720
know, say that things are
positive out there, but you

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00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,360
know, there's there's some some
interesting dynamics.

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00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,000
I mean creative, you know,
people today have more outlets

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00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,120
than ever, but when you get to
the right, like your question,

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00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,160
you know, is illustrating, you
get to the rights of someone

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00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,240
that passed away.
It's a whole nother legal

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00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,920
dynamic.
Yeah, yeah.

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00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,640
And one that's pretty
complicated, I'm sure.

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So it must have been a pretty
big pivot, I imagine.

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I mean, it's interesting because
it looks like you got a really

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00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:17,840
wide range of, you know, I guess
emotionally charged or I guess,

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00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,600
you know, there's different
types of projects that you've

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done, ranging from music videos,
documentaries, and, you know,

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and I want to talk to you about
the Holocaust in the, in the

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00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,120
projects that you're working on
now, because one thing that I've

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00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,760
noticed actually, so I, I
actually teach part time, I

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00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,120
teach high school English part
time.

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00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,720
OK.
In a Jewish school in North

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Miami Beach, Nice.
And and my grandfather who just

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passed away, I think two years
ago now at 92 or 3 was, was a

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00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,600
was a Holocaust survivor.
He was in the he was actually in

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the Soviet labor camps during
the war.

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And my grandmother had passed
away a long time ago, maybe 25

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00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,880
years ago.
She was actually, she was

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00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,440
actually in some of the
concentration camps and she, you

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00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,400
know, she was passed around
through there and ultimately ran

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00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,880
away and was living in the
forest.

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00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,120
But I've what I've found is that
it feels like even in the last

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00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,200
decade, and I'm sure that's my
parents and for, you know, my

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00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,120
mom and for, you know, that, you
know, my generation, it feels

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00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,560
like something slipped where
people kind of just either

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00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,080
forgot about the Holocaust or it
went straight into ancient

295
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,520
history.
You know, like you may as well

296
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,760
say Christopher Columbus in the
same sentence to a lot of these

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00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,680
people, a lot of kids today, you
know, and I think that, and I'm

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00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,360
curious what your thoughts are
and you know, what the research

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00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,600
was like in your, in your
newest, in your newest project.

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00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,440
And, you know, I mean, I, and
one of the biggest challenges,

301
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,720
I'm sure, you know, just in
terms of logistics is that the

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00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,280
generation of survivors are
pretty much all extremely,

303
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,000
extremely old.
And they're, you know, mid to

304
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,080
late 90s are passed away
already.

305
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,800
So you want to tell me a little
bit about that?

306
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,080
Yeah, well, you know, I started
working.

307
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,440
I had a client that I developed,
I had a friendship with here in,

308
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,000
in, in Florida.
He was in South Florida.

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00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,040
I'm not in South Florida right
now, but I'm based there.

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00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,960
And Yaakov Heller, who's a, you
know, at that point, he was like

311
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,960
75 in or so and he was still a
globally renowned artist and

312
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,359
started working with him, got
hired to create.

313
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,079
He had no video, no visual
representation of, of his work

314
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,800
other than pictures and whatnot.
You know, he'd been doing it at

315
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,520
that point since he was a young
kid.

316
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,640
And he was, you know, world
renowned, but very, very few

317
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,440
people outside of, you know, I
would say his, the people that

318
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,560
already knew him, we're going to
find out about him.

319
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,400
But he had a big, big social
media following.

320
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,680
So we started working together
and and he had, you know,

321
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,960
several being he was actually
born in Cleveland, but he, you

322
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,480
know, made his name for himself
to being an Israeli artist, even

323
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,160
though he's not technically
Israeli.

324
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,800
So interesting.
And so I started developing some

325
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,840
ideas to do short documentaries
on his items, the making of his

326
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,000
items.
And yeah, so he would we'd go

327
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,120
back retrospectively and, you
know, things that were made and

328
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:15,440
he talked about it.
And I noticed, you know, not and

329
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,280
not everything was Holocaust
related.

330
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,360
But the big thing was this
garden of humanity that he was

331
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,280
commissioned to create, which is
really not just about the

332
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,120
Holocaust, but, you know, dealt
with the all the atrocities of

333
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:35,320
the 20th century mixed into one
beautiful garden, if you will.

334
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,040
And they had different benches
with different sayings on them

335
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,120
and from world leaders to pop
culture fig figures.

336
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:47,600
And then Benjamin Ferenz, who I
had no idea who he was.

337
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,600
And so Yaakov had had sent me
some information about Ben.

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00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,520
I started researching Ben to
your question from a few a few

339
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,640
questions ago.
And I was, I found like a video

340
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,960
of him.
It looked like it was a Ted

341
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,000
video, Ted X video.
And he'd, he'd done it like in

342
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,680
his in his living room and, and
it was, it was incredible.

343
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,760
This guy was like 95 or whatever
he was at the time when he did

344
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,480
it.
And I was like, you know, and

345
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,880
he's talking about the Holocaust
and what he lived through.

346
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,360
And he tried the Nazis.
And I was like, wow, this guy's,

347
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,760
you know, incredible.
So I said to Yaakov, I said,

348
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,640
well, we should, you know, bring
him down here to the Garden of

349
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,920
Humanity.
And because while he was here

350
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,560
once before, when, you know, we
unveiled it and I said, I know,

351
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,640
but now we can talk about with
you and him.

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00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,440
And so I, we brought him down.
He was living in Delray at the

353
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,920
time and came down with his,
with his son had come into town

354
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,400
and I'm here he is.
He's little man, 4 foot 11.

355
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,600
But he was like, you know, such
a giant in the world if you, if

356
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,360
you research him.
And again, I hadn't didn't know

357
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,360
much about him, but I'll tell
you just the 2-3 hours we spent

358
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,280
with him.
You learn so much about history

359
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,200
and he's sort of reflecting,
looking back as we're going

360
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,720
through the garden of humanity.
There's, you know, the all the

361
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,000
different things that Yaakov
created in the garden that you

362
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,200
talk about, you know, the flame
and, and.

363
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,480
The busts and the things of
nature that, you know, reflect

364
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,360
what happened during the
Holocaust and, you know, the

365
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,640
signatures that never again and,
and things of that nature.

366
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,080
It's not all about the
Holocaust.

367
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,000
But then you really open my
eyes, you know, even being a

368
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,640
Jewish person in this era still,
you know, the denial not within

369
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,000
the Jewish community, but the
struggle to people like yourself

370
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,280
who had grandparents that lived
through the Holocaust or Yaakov,

371
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,800
you know, that had family that
lived through the Holocaust or

372
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:50,600
Ben, who at 27 tried the Nazis.
He was the youngest, came right

373
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,360
out of Harvard and and General
Patton tapped him to try the

374
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:55,960
Nazi.
So he he was, you know, the

375
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,960
Einstein group in trial, which
was one of the 11 trials that

376
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,000
were going on simultaneously to
try the Nazis.

377
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,680
But I don't know, I just sort
of, I got sucked into it in a

378
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,280
good way.
And I was like that we got to

379
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,280
tell this story.
So actually I did this whole

380
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,000
series of Q&A with both of them,
and I went back to Yaakov's

381
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,280
investor.
I said, you know, I think we got

382
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,360
something here.
And and, you know, Yaakov said,

383
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,480
you know what, I don't know if
you heard this, but I asked Ben

384
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,560
if I can make a bust of him.
And I said, no, I didn't hear

385
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,480
that.
He goes, yeah.

386
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,440
And he said, yeah, go for it, 2
heads are better than one.

387
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,120
I said, oh, OK.
And I, And so that's sort of sat

388
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:41,000
in my head and we got the
approval and I sort of went back

389
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,360
in time.
But then I, I followed Yaakov to

390
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,560
make this bust over 12 days.
I just on my own, I didn't have

391
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,440
my videographer with me or just
because he would work in

392
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,200
different stages.
And so we we then went to Ben's

393
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,520
home and he would, you know,
talk about what happened and

394
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960
final finishes of his face.
And so it became, you know, the

395
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,120
short documentary that came out
of just conversation about, you

396
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,560
know, peace, tolerance, humanity
and, and what Ben went through

397
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,480
and what Yaakov's mission is to,
you know, keep those memories of

398
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,840
alive, not just the 6,000,000,
but the people like your

399
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,680
grandparents, who, you know,
struggled to get out, made it

400
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,320
out in some cases, in some cases
where little kids don't have

401
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,160
the, you know, in the the memory
that, you know, an older person

402
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,040
would have.
But to your point, you know,

403
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,440
that was that became like a
driving mission.

404
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,400
And so it took a long time
because we're dealing with the

405
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,760
pandemic and and editing, you
know, virtually and whatnot.

406
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,680
But bottom line is we create
this little half hour piece of

407
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,360
history.
And the the bust that that

408
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,560
created that was created by
Yaakov now sits in the

409
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,840
International Criminal Court in
The Hague, which, you know, I

410
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,800
was the 1:00 to be able to tell
him that, which was a very nice,

411
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,960
you know, feather in his, you
know, extremely Yakko's not an

412
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,560
emotionally charged man visibly,
but he was just so he was very

413
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,800
he's very excited about it,
obviously.

414
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,400
And it's like he loved, you
know, what Ben represented.

415
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,920
And, you know, I think the more
people that get exposed to not

416
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,840
just my film, but other films
about Ben, there's been a few

417
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,480
others that are incredibly well
done.

418
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,720
But two heads are better than 1
is really, you know, this, this,

419
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,280
you know, magical thing that had
transpired between the two of

420
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,880
them.
And I was able to, you know,

421
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,400
sort of be the the buffer
between them in a good way to,

422
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,200
you know, capture these moments
and tell the story.

423
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,880
So storytelling, you know,
sometimes is very innate.

424
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,360
You feel it like there's a story
here has to be told.

425
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,240
Or you go in, you know, upstream
and you say, I want to tell this

426
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,280
story.
So this case it was, it was like

427
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,400
really a bizarre situation
because we're just there to talk

428
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,760
about, you know, the the garden
of humanity and bends, you know,

429
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,400
history.
And we were going to just put

430
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,240
some videos together and now,
you know, 2 heads are better

431
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,160
than one.
The Making of the Benferent Bus,

432
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,920
which is an interesting title.
I, I really wanted to capture

433
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,120
what, what, what it's about
'cause it's, there's, you know,

434
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,640
I don't know if you've seen it
yet, but it's literally not,

435
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,160
there's not one image in the
entire thing that that has any

436
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,680
negative connotation.
In other words, there's no

437
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,280
Nazis, there's nobody's dying.
It's all, you know, present day.

438
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,080
And then a little retrospective
on Ben's history.

439
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,480
And I did that so that, you
know, people would, would

440
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,240
obviously have their own
imagination.

441
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,120
We all know which Steven
Spielberg was able to accomplish

442
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,520
with Schindler's List.
But, you know, this is a guy

443
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,080
that, you know, stood, he was
the last living chief prosecutor

444
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,200
from the Nuremberg Trials.
And so he just passed away.

445
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:06,760
So, you know, it's just an
incredible moment for for me to,

446
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,360
you know, to be able to do that
and to honor Ben and Yaakov,

447
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,960
obviously simultaneously.
And then, you know, Yaakov's

448
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,040
bust is just, you know, it's
emblematic of what Ben did in

449
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,040
his life.
So it was a very gratifying

450
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,760
thing to do.
And you know, you don't get to

451
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,080
do those things too often.
Definitely not, Definitely not.

452
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,560
You know, and I mean, it's,
it's, it's so it's so beautiful.

453
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,200
It's so emotional too.
Also because I saw that much of

454
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,320
the emphasis is, you know, this
is something that obviously

455
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,840
takes a really special type of
human.

456
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,600
And, you know, my grandfather,
for example, you know, I love

457
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,400
him and he loved nothing more
than his family and, you know,

458
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,000
Jews and Israel and America, you
know, like, those were like the

459
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,200
priorities in his life.
But he has some, you know, like

460
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,680
he had some vehemence.
You'd push back if, you know, if

461
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,600
anyone tried to kind of make any
kind of light or like, you know,

462
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,320
you wouldn't be afraid to
emphasize that, you know, the

463
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,360
pain or the struggles that he
went through.

464
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,240
But I think it's something else
entirely.

465
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,880
It's a different type of human
being.

466
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,440
And I don't even know if I would
be the same kind of person that

467
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,760
can kind of look back.
I choose to make a documentary

468
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,080
about this and choose to like
only look at the unifying factor

469
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,320
that arise from it as opposed to
avoiding all the, you know, all

470
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,440
the all the negativity,
especially that they've gone

471
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,560
through personally, you know,
all the trauma and all the I

472
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,800
mean, this is the work with some
of the some of the worst crimes

473
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,520
in human history, you know, And
I can't even imagine a 27 years

474
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,160
old, you know, that you're going
to be like, I'm 30, you know,

475
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,520
and I cannot imagine standing in
front of my, you know, my

476
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,320
greatest enemy.
Forget about, you know, you

477
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,200
know, some of these, not some of
these Nazis and some of the, you

478
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,640
know, some of the leaders of the
Nazis.

479
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,760
I can't imagine sitting in front
of them today and and going

480
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,560
after them.
You know, it's probably it takes

481
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:57,920
such a different type of human
being.

482
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,200
Yeah, it's really, really, you
know, it's.

483
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,320
Moving.
I mean, Ben.

484
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:04,880
Ben was a different type of
human being.

485
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,520
He came from nothing, rose up,
you know, went to, went to

486
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,600
school.
It grew up in New York.

487
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,760
I went to school that, you know,
was, was so smart that he got a,

488
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,640
you know, full scholarship to
Harvard and went to Harvard and

489
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,920
then went into the service and
came out of the service and and

490
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,720
I said Patton tapped him to be
one of the the chief prosecutor.

491
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,040
So, you know, he obviously was
so intelligent and having the,

492
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,200
the unique history that he had.
And then what was sort of

493
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,080
interesting and it was it kept
very emotional for him.

494
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,240
And I captured a little bit of
it in the in the documentary is,

495
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,960
you know, after the war.
In other words, as he was

496
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,920
preparing for the trial, he
actually went into the camps.

497
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,120
And so he was seeing the
aftermath OK, not just of of.

498
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,200
Have you been there?
Not, and I, you know, it's like

499
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,840
one of those things I, I don't
have a desire to go because I

500
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,320
just to your point, it's such a,
there's a painful part of it.

501
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160
But having done what I've done,
you know, I feel like my

502
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,000
contribution is there, but I, I
don't know if I could, you know,

503
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,080
have any, any emotion, any more
emotion to it.

504
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,480
On a positive side, it would
just be like, I think non Jews,

505
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,440
every non Jew that you can get
to go there and, and watch these

506
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,680
things because that, you know,
look at large Jewish, Jewish

507
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,840
people understand that this is
history.

508
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,960
There's a there's a faction of
society and you know, it's

509
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,120
getting louder.
You know, they're denouncing the

510
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Holocaust as as we've chatted
about.

511
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,720
And that to me is the danger.
And that's why these things,

512
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,520
permanent fixtures, art
documentaries, conversations, it

513
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:01,120
needs to have a louder voice.
So to me, you know that that you

514
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,280
know that that's that's most
important.

515
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,960
But we've got leaders of the of
the world, some of them here in

516
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,520
the United States and some of
them abroad that, you know,

517
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,560
don't necessarily denounce the
Holocaust, but they denounce

518
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,760
Israel, they denounce the United
States.

519
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,960
And so, you know, this, this,
it's a scary moment and, you

520
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,160
know, you have to rise up and,
and speak out.

521
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,760
So I think that's why, you know,
a lot of a lot of the, you know,

522
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,680
that generation that is, you
know, fading away,

523
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,520
unfortunately.
I mean, I'm, I'm really excited

524
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,400
about on the other side, there
are people that are capturing,

525
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,280
you know, interviews with the,
you know, Holocaust survivors.

526
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,240
I've an associate in New York
and she's done close to 200

527
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,800
interviews with survivors over
the last five or ten years.

528
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,080
So I'm going to work with her on
getting that out.

529
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,800
And you know, this is the
problem is, you know, the mis

530
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,560
education of the world.
And so, you know, you know, one

531
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,160
and one is not 3 globally, but
yet, you know, when you look at

532
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,960
the history of the Holocaust and
people say there there was no

533
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,600
Holocaust where they change the
history books that the next

534
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,360
generation is is reading and
coming up with.

535
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,880
This is the danger.
Thankfully, we've got enough

536
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:18,240
video in film.
And so if people are really, you

537
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,960
know, interested in exploring
it, they have no, no shortage.

538
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,640
So I was able to get this short
film on several platforms, which

539
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,760
to me was exciting.
And we're we're, we're just

540
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,440
really, I mean, it took a long
time to get there, but we're,

541
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,880
we're now going to have a pretty
big campaign to get this word

542
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,680
out.
And, you know, Yaakov's going to

543
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,560
make more busts available for
those who want to honor Ben.

544
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,760
So it's, you know, to me, you
know, that that's makes it all

545
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,480
worthwhile.
That's awesome.

546
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,880
It's really awesome.
I agree.

547
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,400
I think that that's such a
beautiful.

548
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920
It's such a beautiful.
It's endeavor.

549
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,400
The last question I'll ask you
and then I appreciate your time

550
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,520
and you know, I'll let you go
after that.

551
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,400
Just in terms of logistics, out
of curiosity, when you when, now

552
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,200
that this film, short
documentaries, documentaries

553
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,800
filming on all those platforms
that you mentioned, Amazon,

554
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Netflix, what else?
It's Amazon, Apple, Apple TV

555
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,760
Plus.
Yeah.

556
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,840
So, so did you, did you have to,
so you, you've, you've basically

557
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,960
shot the documentary, edit it,
wrapped it up and then went to

558
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960
each platform and said, hey, I'd
like to distribute this on this.

559
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,000
Or did you go to them with the
concept and then they and then

560
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,720
they want to do?
How does that work?

561
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,640
No, no, it was it, you know,
this thing was done privately

562
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:46,120
and then, you know, it's it's an
interesting question is to get

563
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,680
to that level.
It's it's all about, you know,

564
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,920
making the right connectivity to
a distributor, Apple, Google,

565
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,200
you know, Netflix, which is not
on Netflix, but you know,

566
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,760
Amazon, these these are, you
know, the giant platforms as we

567
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,640
all know, it's it's ubiquitous.
So you either.

568
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480
But do they?
But do they not want the?

569
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,760
They don't want to be the
exclusive.

570
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,360
Platform that it's you know.
How do they?

571
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,000
How do you get across multiple
platforms?

572
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,680
The the short answer is through
a distributor.

573
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,640
So I pitched this to 1
distributor.

574
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,600
They loved it and we moved
forward accordingly.

575
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,960
The X Factor for me was I didn't
really want to have to charge

576
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,760
people.
It's only a few bucks to watch

577
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,400
it, but they sort of required me
to do it to be honest with you.

578
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,880
But aside from that, I mean,
truthfully, I, I, I said I want

579
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,920
many people to watch us as we
can.

580
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,280
I I, I don't want to make any
money off of it for you know, so

581
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,720
in other it's also like a
psychological thing.

582
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,080
I think if you charge people to
watch it, you know that you can

583
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:57,240
have a fewer eyeballs, but sure,
sure.

584
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,880
The answer that that's sort of
the what on YouTube, but

585
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:05,560
typically, you know, if you, you
have a distributor, you have an

586
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,560
agent, you have a lawyer, those
three things sort of work

587
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,920
synergistically.
But projects I'm working on now,

588
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,400
we're in that stage now as well
where we're we haven't done it

589
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,920
yet.
We have a sizzle reel, so we,

590
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,920
you know, that always helps
people can see what the

591
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,400
project's going to be about,
who's going to be in it.

592
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,080
And then you can pitch it with
those those entities to the

593
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,960
bigger platforms.
And to your point, typically

594
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,080
they will buy it or they will
license it and it'll just be on

595
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,000
that platform.
If they license it is for a

596
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,880
finite period of time.
And then you can go to another

597
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,880
platform or you can do what I
did where if it's independently

598
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,280
produced and financed and you
can get it on as many platforms

599
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,640
as you, you can or you want.
But typically if you're, you

600
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,080
know, it's a, if it's a monetary
venture, money making venture,

601
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,280
then you're going to go with one
and you'll hopefully get enough

602
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,560
interest where they bid on it.
And, you know, you could have a,

603
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440
you know, a little bidding war
going on depending upon what the

604
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,800
subject matter is.
Gotcha, gotcha.

605
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,000
And what about if you want,
would would you have any

606
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,800
interest?
I know that and that that

607
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,360
YouTube actually gets by far the
most eyeballs these days.

608
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,159
Would you ever put any of?
These documents, this one's on

609
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:30,639
YouTube as well.
It's it's on YouTube, but again,

610
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:36,639
they it's, it's, you know, you
pay the dollar 99299 fee, but

611
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,480
it's no big deal.
I'm sure it's about working I.

612
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,760
Think exactly, you know,
absolutely, but it it to me,

613
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040
it's just more of a like I said,
a psychological thing.

614
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,520
YouTube is you know, you know,
when I worked at the box Music

615
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,920
network, really we were sort of
the precursor to YouTube and and

616
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,040
all these streaming platforms.
It was the first on demand video

617
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,040
network in the world.
And so people would call a 900

618
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,200
number to be able to watch a
music video.

619
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,080
And in this case, you know,
YouTube, you know, obviously

620
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,680
with the Internet the way it is,
you can either charge people the

621
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,040
way the way we're doing it or,
you know, like most people,

622
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,600
you're able to just watch it
freely.

623
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,120
Just throw it up and help you
get.

624
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,280
Lost.
And then, you know, so content

625
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,200
creators now you know, the, the
barrier to entry is, is nothing.

626
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,200
You know, it's, if you, you
create good content, create good

627
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,840
followers, you'll get good
advertisers and you can monetize

628
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,440
it.
As we're seeing, I mean, most,

629
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,480
most of these content creators
are in that category.

630
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,960
And it's it's an amazing thing
in 2025.

631
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,160
Yeah, yeah, It's really awesome.
Eric Klein, I really appreciate

632
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:45,920
your time.
Thank you.

633
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,880
Thank you so much for this.
Maybe we'll be in touch.

634
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,640
Maybe we'll watch the Bruce
Springsteen document the new

635
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,920
making of the.
Mask together, that's good.

636
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,400
But best of luck with all these
new projects that you have

637
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,960
coming up.
I'm really excited to hear about

638
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,840
them and hopefully maybe we'll
do another another interview

639
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,320
again.
I.

640
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,880
Appreciate we'll talk about your
efforts and thank you and you

641
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,400
know good luck.
You're you're a sharp young man,

642
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,920
I can tell so good luck with
your podcast.

643
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,840
I'm sure it's going to keep keep
growing.

644
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,960
I.
Appreciate that.

645
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,560
Take care.
Thank you so much.

646
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,960
Have a great weekend.
All right, Take care.

647
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:17,840
Thank you.
Bye.