May 12, 2025
Episode 100: Shrey Ghate
Shrey Ghate is a PMO (Project Management Office) Consultant at Cipla Health Limited. He lives in Mumbai, India
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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.
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And we're live.
Shrey, welcome back.
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I this is, I say welcome back.
I don't mean it's the podcast
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because I'm unfortunately this
is your first time, although I'm
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so happy that you're the 100th
episode because I was waiting
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for.
I wanted a really great guest
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for 100th episode.
And you and I, and I think I was
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was I in the podcast that you
did a couple of years ago on the
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don't worry about it one.
I was.
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I was, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I was.
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I was so.
So we haven't done a podcast.
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Yeah, we haven't.
It's been it's this I'm, I'm sad
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that it took me this long to be
on on your podcast, but now that
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I'm here, I'm hoping that this
this is worth it.
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Oh, it's.
Going to be awesome.
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I'm so excited.
So, so why don't you start by
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telling, by telling us a little
bit about, you know, who you
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are, where you where, where
you're from, where you live, and
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we'll dive into a dive into
things from there.
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Awesome.
All right, So I am Sri.
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I am A, I live in India right
now, but I used to live, I study
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and live in the United States
where that's where I met Fe or F
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Prime as I like to call him.
That's right.
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What I live in Bombay right now.
That's where I'm where I'm
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originally from and I did
engineering at Rutgers and then
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went on to work for consulting
companies like Deloitte and now
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I do consulting for like the
Pharmaceutical industry with Sip
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Line India.
Oh, you do That's.
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So you started, you got back,
you're still in consulting.
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I am.
I am, for better or worse than
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in consulting.
Do you, do you have to travel?
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Do you travel the same rate that
you did in America?
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No, it's, it's again, I don't
know if this is a net positive
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or negative because I, I don't
have a family like you yet, but
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I don't travel anymore.
Like it went from 100 to 0 real
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quick.
I think they quick, I think
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companies wised up.
They realized that we were not
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really needed after the pandemic
era to be in person in a lot of
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these client offsite meetings
and that they could save a lot
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of money flying us down and
feeding us expensive food.
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So unfortunately, yeah, nobody
pays for you to travel anymore.
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It's.
All.
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It's so sad, isn't it?
It is like it feels like my
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wings have been clipped.
They have been because you, you
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were travelling everywhere,
right?
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I mean, it was when we met with
Seattle where you, just you, you
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work, you'd be consulting
wherever you just hop on a plane
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and just get to.
Everyone and you know, that was
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that was a time people thought I
worked as a, as a, as a steward
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or a pilot.
They would be like.
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No way.
Like twice a week, like surely
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or you're, you're working with
United or JetBlue.
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But I was like, Oh no.
You should do that, by the way.
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I feel like that be fun.
I've I've spoken to a couple.
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I have a couple of friends that
have been that worked on
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airlines and even if it was just
for a year or two, they've
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absolutely loved it.
I have considered it.
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I have.
But you know what?
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I think I I I have something
called congenital tremors, which
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is like these tremors that
happen in my hand and I have no
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control over it.
It's nothing really.
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But I feel like, yeah, yeah, I
got it from my dad and my
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granddad.
But what that means is that I
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make a terrible steward.
Imagine I am out to give you
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your, you know, kosher meal or
pour you a glass of wine and I
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pour it all over you over so
myself.
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Yeah, that was that.
You know, I'd be like a hot spot
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for litigations and a lot of.
Well, if it makes you feel
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better, if it makes you feel
better since the last time you
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wait.
Have you been to the states
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since since 21?
No, I haven't.
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Like it's it.
I so travelling customer service
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here has gone to shit, so I
think that even if you did spill
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over over anyone, you'd probably
still be one of the better, one
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of the better service people, I
would imagine.
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Yeah.
It's a shame.
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Mm Hmm.
So wait, how long have you been
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working for this pharmaceutical
company?
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When you do consulting, what do
you do for?
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Them so I contrary to what I
used to do for Deloitte, which
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was more external clients, this
is more internal.
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So I, I've been with their IT
vertical as a, as what they call
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business partner and I'm
essentially responsible for, for
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streamlining and keeping the
ball rolling on a lot of their
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projects within that department.
So it could be anything from an
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integration with called, you
know, of a certain software, it
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could be managing databases, it
could be automating certain
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tasks.
These are certain projects that
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come up and all internally
because you know, we're we're
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always.
Trying to Are you doing the
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building yourself or you just
no, no, no.
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I, I, I'm, I get involved from
more of like a project
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management standpoint, SO or PMO
as they call it, and I'm more
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responsible for liaisoning
between the different parties
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and making sure that everyone's
talking to everyone and we're
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getting things done.
So it's more management.
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Type.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, more
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management type.
Awesome.
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Awesome, awesome, so cool.
So I wanted to talk to you today
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because I want to talk to you a
lot of it, a lot of things.
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But one of the things I wanted
to talk to you about is I was
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talking to my wife.
We have to meet a couple of.
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Absolutely.
A couple of weeks ago, I was so
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excited for you to come hang out
again.
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We always have so much fun
together.
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But I wanted to, but I was
talking to her and I was it
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actually started with AI.
Did AI did an interview with a
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doctor this past week.
And she before she went to Med
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school, went to India for a year
and and she learned about
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meditation.
She learned about Buddhism, she
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learned about yoga.
She learned about dietary health
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and food health.
And and then when she said, she
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said that when she went to Med
school, she kind of went with a
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little bit more of a broad
picture than most people would,
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you know, typically have.
And when and while while we're
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talking, I realized that I feel
like America in our in our
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exciting, excited, youthful,
perpetual state of chaos, you
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know, kind of doesn't pay so
much attention to other older,
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richer and, you know, more
established cultures and parts
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of the world, including India,
you know, and that's when I
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realized I knew nothing about
your whole part of the world.
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So I want so, you know, then the
war kicked off and I don't know
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anything about that.
So I wanted to, I wanted to talk
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to you a little bit about, about
first of all, you know,
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day-to-day, you know, the
differences between day-to-day
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life and Indian America and
maybe a little bit about the
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political scenario and the war
and what's going on, the
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tensions.
And if all that stuff sounds
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fun, there's some of the history
about Buddhism a little bit.
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So where do you want to start?
I feel like there's so many
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great topics to pick up from.
I let's, let's start actually
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from what you know, your friend
was talking about, because I
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think that that we can, you
know, segue from there, because
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I think there's a lot of
interesting points you brought
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up there with her saying that
just being from, from India and
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being exposed to holistic
medicine here.
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It if I'm if I got it correctly,
it informed a lot of her
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approach towards medicine once
she got into Med school in the
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States, right?
Yeah.
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Well, one thing that we can, one
thing that we both concluded is
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that there's a difference
between health and medicine, you
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know, and someone could be a
healthy person and not receive
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medicine and someone could
receive medicine and not
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necessarily be a healthy person,
you know?
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And so she said that she felt
she learned more about health
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and life and longevity in India.
And then the Med school was more
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about the medicine aspect.
That's that's it.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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That's an interesting
observation because, you know,
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that's something that we think
that I think about a lot these
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days and maybe not so much from
a cultural standpoint, but you
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know, when you went there was
the Olympics that happened
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recently.
I don't know if it's as popular
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in the US as it is out here.
But if some, if there's
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something that you notice is
that a lot of the bodies that
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you see in front of you, whether
it's in swimming or it's in
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weightlifting or table tennis,
they're very differently shaped.
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And these, well, you know, we're
talking of pro athletes here,
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people representing their
country at the highest level.
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And it made me think that, you
know, we have really brought
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down health to looking a certain
way to to an aesthetic standard
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when health is so much more than
that.
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Because here I'm looking at
people who are pro athletes, who
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are sportsmen, who I'm sure are
incredibly healthy, but they
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don't fit that mole that we, you
know, have kind of begin, begun
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to associate with being healthy
or being fit in the conventional
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sense.
You know, when you think about
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it now, it's like being ripped
and muscular or so like you
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quality composition.
I don't.
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I don't know about that but but.
You know what I'm saying?
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We all know it.
You know what I'm saying, right?
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Like we, we've, it's, it's been,
it's been distorted to an
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aesthetic standard and where,
where health is is far more than
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that.
And it's not just superficial,
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right, Right.
It's, it's not just superficial
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and it's, it's interesting to
know there are a lot of these
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people that look a certain way,
often die 30 or 40 from a heart
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attack because you know, they've
internally they're, they're a
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mess.
Whereas you know, the, the
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people with a little bit of a
pot belly and you know who, who
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look like they enjoy life.
At the same time, a lot of them
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go on to live to like 90 and
100.
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So it's there's, there's
something to be said about how,
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you know, health is more than
what we make of it.
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That's a great point.
That's a great point is that is
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that idea more heavily
emphasized in India than it is
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in America?
Because I know in America it's
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obviously all about kind of the
superficial looks, which is why
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I think like Ozempic has taken
off those type of drugs has kind
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of taken off because everyone
could feel like they look
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phenomenal without having to put
the effort in.
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But I, I, I feel like everything
in life kind of has a category
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of either being the equivalent
of junk food or the equivalent
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of healthy food.
And you can get the junk food if
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you want and you could be full
off that, but it's not really
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what's good for you in the long
term.
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And I feel like there's always
short term things and long term
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things that you can do.
And, and I feel like, you know,
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like generally speaking, you
know, living a healthier
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lifestyle would be the
equivalent of healthy food,
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while just opting to look good
with Ozempic or one of those
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shots or whatever would, would
be a little bit equivalent of at
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least unless, unless you're
trying to use it to balance out
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and, and, and, and kick start
your own healthy lifestyle.
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You know, a lot of people that
are overweight, you know, can't,
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can't even start working out.
And so they need to lose a
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couple of pounds before they
even start exercising.
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Right, right.
No, absolutely.
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I think, I think Ozempic is one
of those things that it's it, it
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depends on how you wield it,
right.
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Like if, if there is something
genetic about your, your body
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mass problems, like if you if
you're diabetic or if there's
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something that's, you know,
outside of the control of
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conventional things that you can
do to medicine.
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Yeah, like I think I think there
is there is benefit to it.
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But now I think there's also
this idea percolating in
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people's minds where it's it's a
quick fix solution to to being
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all weight like it's just you
stab yourself every what once?
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A week, a month, and.
Something like that, yeah.
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And, and you, you, you know,
you, you lose, lose the weight.
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But as research is coming out,
people say that, you know,
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there's a lot of side effects we
still don't know about.
223
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,240
And it comes back to this idea
that there are no free lunches,
224
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,480
right?
You got to put in the work.
225
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,240
You have to, you know, do
something to to get something
226
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:54,320
and I think we will be seeing
more of that as this miracle
227
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,920
drug, as they call it.
Yeah, yeah.
228
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,760
Is it as big in India as it is
in America?
229
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,480
Not yet, not yet.
So India is an interesting
230
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problem, and I think this comes
down to like cultural things.
231
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,840
We are a population that is
predisposed to hypertension and
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00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,000
diabetes because of successive
famines that were orchestrated
233
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by the British Empire.
That's something I learned very
234
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,560
recently as well.
So can you.
235
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,800
Explain that to me a little bit.
Can you give me some more detail
236
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,240
about that?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
237
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,920
So if you if you notice that
there, there tends to be a very
238
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,880
skinny fat mole that a lot of
South Asians tend to fall in,
239
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,160
it's not exactly obese, but it's
not exactly skinny.
240
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,720
You know, there's, you know,
skinny arms.
241
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,000
But that weight, you know, you
tend to put on more weight
242
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,040
around your waist and hips and
midriff.
243
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,640
And I think a lot of research
has been done into this.
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00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,600
And while there are certain
lifestyle factors to it, there's
245
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,640
also negative component to it
that goes back to the British
246
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,840
induced famines.
So when the the British
247
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,040
colonized India.
What year was that?
248
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,800
It was.
So it started sometime in the
249
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,720
1800s and you know, by, I think
by the 1830s they had most of
250
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,560
the Indian subcontinent under
their control.
251
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,560
And at that, and you know it, it
started as a company.
252
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,880
It was the East India Company
before it transitioned to the
253
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British Parliament.
And whether it was the East
254
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,360
India Company or the British
Parliament, there was always a,
255
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,640
a very extractionary approach to
their rule in India, the
256
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,360
colonial rule in India.
So the food that was produced
257
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,280
here, the raw materials produced
here, the the wells produced
258
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,560
here, the textiles produced
here, a lot of that was just
259
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,520
taken and sold in markets in the
West and elsewhere.
260
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,040
So that was that was that was
kind of the nature of colonial
261
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,440
rule.
So these that's.
262
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,800
Crazy.
Yeah, Yeah, it was it was an
263
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,880
incredibly extractionary
process.
264
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,800
I mean, people today put the
total loss to the Indian economy
265
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,720
if, you know, you had to compare
it in relative terms to billions
266
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,040
of dollars and, you know, we're
still in a way recovering from
267
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,280
it.
When you think of India as the
268
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,320
third world or, you know, why
is, why is India like that or
269
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,320
why is Pakistan like that?
It's it's essentially a lot of
270
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,160
it is baggage from that era.
But coming back to the coming
271
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,080
back to the famines and the
genetic component of, you know,
272
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,920
our Physiology, these famines
essentially caused us to adapt
273
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,160
because that's that's the nature
of the human.
274
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,520
It's the beauty and the curse of
biology that we will adapt no
275
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,960
matter what.
So when when you don't have a
276
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,520
lot of food and you have to make
do it little, the body started
277
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,120
to naturally store more fat in
certain places as a way to as a
278
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,600
way to, yeah, overcome that.
So that is how this board, this
279
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,680
Physiology started becoming a
thing in the South Asian
280
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,320
population.
And, and, and that's why now
281
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,840
when researchers talk about
obesity in the South Asian
282
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,480
context, they, it's not just
about Ogo and Rananda Chadmur
283
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,840
more or, you know, eat less.
It's also looking at this
284
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,760
genetic component that has
developed over so many
285
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,240
centuries, decades.
Wow.
286
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,600
So, so is there, what do you,
how do you change that?
287
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,880
Is it just a slow progress?
Like it just takes a lot of time
288
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,440
to undo it?
Likely likely what it it, it's
289
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,440
taken.
So it's, it's, it's a product of
290
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,680
so many centuries.
I mean, not so many, but like at
291
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,520
least 2 centuries and a little
more than that.
292
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,600
Because that's how approximately
how long the British rule
293
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,800
lasted.
And even even into the first
294
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,840
year, decades of India's
independence, food was a
295
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:38,480
commodity that was often at the
risk of scarcity and not it it's
296
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,880
not always due to a lack of
production or crop vitality.
297
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,280
It's sometimes, you know,
distribution issues, supply
298
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,600
chain issues, the lack of
warehouses, etcetera.
299
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,880
So I think until something
called the green revolution,
300
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,840
which happened in the 1960s in
II was a food scarce country.
301
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,400
It was after the Green
Revolution that we became a food
302
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,760
surplus bread basket nation.
And now, now we have enough food
303
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,440
to, you know, send out to other
countries that have scarcity.
304
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,200
But yeah, the the the genetic
imprint was that done was.
305
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,240
That done through
industrialization or is that
306
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,160
done just by the sheer number of
people there and just worked
307
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,520
working in farmers and stuff
like that?
308
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,280
The Green Revolution.
Yeah, the Green Revolution.
309
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,360
It it was, it was actually done
through American help.
310
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,080
So that was an American company
and researchers that got
311
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,840
together and they created these
hybrid high yield varieties of
312
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,440
rice and wheat which was then
brought to India.
313
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,800
So these high yield varieties
were more resistant to
314
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,040
pesticides and you know, they
use more chemical fertilizers to
315
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,960
improve output.
And that is what really helped
316
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,040
take India from being a food
scarce nation to a food surplus
317
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,320
nation.
I see.
318
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,280
And is the, so you know, what a
lot of people talk about these
319
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,960
days, especially with RFK and
everything like that is the
320
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,400
whole Make America healthy
thing.
321
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,800
And that we noticed that all the
stuff that we put in our food
322
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,360
has been poisoning us for, you
know, ever.
323
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,000
Did you did you get that from
with America's support?
324
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,280
Was, was, was a lot of that kind
of it does.
325
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,680
I know, for example, I'm sorry,
just to kind of clarify the
326
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,160
point, when my wife and I went
on our honeymoon to Greece, we
327
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,280
ate bread everywhere all the
time, you know, and we didn't
328
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,480
and we felt great.
We didn't feel bloated.
329
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,359
We didn't feel disgusting.
You know, if I eat a hamburger
330
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,200
bun in America and this from the
supermarket, I feel like a piece
331
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,320
of crap.
You know, I feel, I feel like it
332
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,960
sits in my stomach forever.
Is India's food cleaner than or
333
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,840
is it also impacted by the
American help in the revolution,
334
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,280
the Green Revolution?
So that's an interesting, you
335
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,200
know, point that you bring up
because I think a lot of
336
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,840
American travelers seem to echo
that sentiment that when they go
337
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,160
to Italy, they go to Florence
and they eat the pizza there,
338
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,440
suddenly there's no gluten
intolerance.
339
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,760
Suddenly, you know, like, yeah.
Isn't it crazy?
340
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080
It is crazy.
And I think people have kind of
341
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,080
chopped it down to the way food
is grown.
342
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,760
So, you know, I, I do believe
RFK, I mean, not agree with him
343
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,120
on a lot of things, but I do
think he has somewhat of a point
344
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,160
here that there is an
overabundance of chemical
345
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,720
fertilizers and genetically
modified variants of crops that,
346
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,960
yeah, we, we don't fully
understand the effects of that
347
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,400
are that are, I don't want to
use the word, but but yeah,
348
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,440
poisoning the, the food system,
the food, the food and it and
349
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,160
it, and, and you're right that
that has been a criticism of the
350
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:26,960
green revolution in India as
well.
351
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,760
And, you know, there that there
are instances of farmers in the
352
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,440
areas where, so the Punjab,
you've probably heard of that
353
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,880
area.
It's in northern India.
354
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,840
It's OK.
It's a very, it's a very
355
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,120
agrarian part, which is where
the green revolution was
356
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,000
particularly centered.
A lot of the farmers that, you
357
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,840
know, worked on these, they
started developing cancers
358
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,920
because and, and a lot of
genetic defects because of their
359
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,240
exposure to artificial
fertilizers and chemical
360
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,640
pesticides.
So, you know, if if that's what
361
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,440
the people drawing the food for
you are, you know, suffering
362
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,520
from, there is something to be
said about how it percolates
363
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,800
into the the food chain as well.
But I think in India, there's
364
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,800
also there's this deals do it.
There's you know, you can find
365
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,760
organic raw stuff that is drawn
and devoid of a lot of these
366
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,520
things.
So as long as you can afford it.
367
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,680
And I think this is.
Is it expensive?
368
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,560
Is it like prohibitively
expensive or it's it's
369
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760
reasonable?
It's it's relatively reasonable.
370
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,120
It's relatively reasonable.
Like I, I wouldn't say it's as
371
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,640
it's like if you had to go to
Whole Foods, Yeah, I think that
372
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,360
would that would work out to be
a lot more expensive.
373
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,400
Whereas in India it's a little
more mainstream, OK.
374
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,960
Cool, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha
gotcha.
375
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,000
So what so tell me so so you
went so you spent a lot you
376
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,720
spent a big chunk of your life
in America, right and amazing.
377
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,960
You know, and, and from what I,
from what I understand, it was
378
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,680
you you not only did you have a
great time, but you're also.
379
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,280
I'm going to say this for you.
You were very successful in
380
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,480
your, in your endeavors, right?
In terms of in terms of
381
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,200
community, in terms of friends,
in terms of education and work.
382
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,800
You kind of you kind of you, you
certainly thrived in, in all
383
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,240
aspects.
I know that, you know, I mean,
384
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,320
think, think about all the times
that we had together and think
385
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,480
about the mutual friends we had
and everything we had, you know,
386
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,760
and everything that you've, that
you've gone through it.
387
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,520
What's what are some of the
biggest cultural differences
388
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,160
between the Americans and the
Indians that you've observed
389
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,320
while you're while you're
spending time in America?
390
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,480
Some of the biggest cultural
differences, OK.
391
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,360
Or similarities or both.
Or similarities.
392
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,280
So I think, I think that we're
both very, very capitalist in
393
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,320
some ways.
You know, like we we're both
394
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,840
very, you know, all about very
enterprising.
395
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,360
We're very, let's find a
solution to this.
396
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,880
There's definitely an aspect of
that it expresses, it finds
397
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,880
expression in slightly different
ways, but I think we're both
398
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,800
very enterprising people that
way.
399
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,680
What are some other
similarities?
400
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,080
I think what are some Let's talk
about differences.
401
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,680
Yeah, we don't like families,
their relationships and stuff
402
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,080
like that.
I know that in America people
403
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,160
don't.
People kind of look at
404
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,000
relationships like you're kind
of supposed to wait off to have,
405
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,920
you know, get married and have
kids till like you're in your
406
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,480
30s at this point.
Is that the?
407
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,120
Is that the case in India?
Not really, but it depends on
408
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,640
who you're asking.
So like for me, for the, for
409
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,480
instance, the, the kind of
socioeconomic circles that I
410
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,560
inhabit, we, we, we don't really
care about it.
411
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,280
Like if my parents never ask me
about marriage, they really a
412
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,320
lot of my most of my friends are
unmarried.
413
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,280
The ones that are married don't
plan to have kids or, or, you
414
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,160
know, it's, it's no longer and
it's not no longer the burning
415
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,520
issue that it used to be
previously.
416
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,000
Of course, of course, I will
preface this by saying that
417
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,240
we're a small minority of people
that mostly belong to like the,
418
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:06,320
the, the metropolitan cities,
the, the, the quote UN quote
419
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,480
elite circles.
So this is not, this is not
420
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,400
something that you know, you
will, you will see across the
421
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,400
length and breadth of India.
But but yes, there is if you go
422
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,480
to the urban centers, if you go
to cities in India, you'll see
423
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,840
that kids here, the youth here
are not very dissimilar to
424
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,280
American youth in that sense.
Like, you know, people are
425
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,840
willing to put off marriage.
They're willing.
426
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:32,880
There's a greater interest in
self actualization in finding
427
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,440
your path and things that you
know you would you would see
428
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,320
resonate among American youth as
well.
429
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,120
So, so there, there, there's
definitely a lot of overlaps
430
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,240
there that.
So, so I think it's so from what
431
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,640
I observed in America,
especially from, you know, my
432
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,520
parents and grandparents era, a
lot of it, I think a lot of
433
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,160
today's, you know, desire for
self actualization, as you put
434
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,080
it, typically comes from a
feeling of being like suppressed
435
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480
as an individual while they were
growing up.
436
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,040
You know, like there wasn't a
lot of emphasis on, hey, who are
437
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,320
you?
What's your passion?
438
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,480
How do you want to live your
life?
439
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,320
It was more like, here's your
responsibility.
440
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,160
You're supposed to have a wife,
you're supposed to have a kid,
441
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,960
you're supposed to get a little
house and you're supposed to
442
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,040
work hard.
And and then before you before
443
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,720
you blink, you're 60.
And then a lot of people
444
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,960
rejected that notion and said,
well, yeah, what about what
445
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,400
about my life?
You know, I only got one of
446
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,160
these.
So is that, you know that that's
447
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,600
from my, from what I see, that's
the American kind of perspective
448
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:34,920
is that is that, is that
similar?
449
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,280
So again, yeah, I wouldn't say
it is something that the vast
450
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,920
majority of Indians would
resonate with.
451
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,080
I think there is a certain.
But in the big cities, you know,
452
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,440
yeah, it's more of like the like
the upper crust of certain big
453
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,880
cities, right, Like Delhi and
Bombay, that Delhi is the
454
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,360
capital city.
Bombay is think of Bombay as a
455
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,720
cross between LA and New York.
It's like the entertainment and
456
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,600
the financial capital of the
country.
457
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,520
So, yeah, so like in our cities
or Bangalore, which is like our
458
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:11,440
Silicon Valley, there is there
is, you know, a very significant
459
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,520
minority of people who who do
subscribe to this American view
460
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,760
of, you know, self actualization
and like you said, finding your
461
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,320
path and and but is that.
Building on like the pain is
462
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,960
that building, the pain of being
told that they don't have like
463
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,640
almost a right to be themselves,
or is that just because, hey,
464
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,840
let's just copy?
Americans or.
465
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Like you want to live a better
life?
466
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,960
It's all economic.
So I might be quoting this
467
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,240
completely wrong.
Like if, if for you and your
468
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,920
listeners, please feel free to
like chat, you do this later.
469
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,200
But there's a cope that goes
something along the lines of,
470
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,000
you know, people work as blue
collar workers so that their
471
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,280
children can work as white
collar workers so that their
472
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,120
children can work as poets and
artists.
473
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,880
So it's like, you know, people
often times these choices are
474
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,960
not really choices.
They're they are kind of imposed
475
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,600
on you because that's, that's
just the circumstances that you
476
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,120
grew up in.
You have to do certain things,
477
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:16,440
you have to take on certain
responsibilities because you had
478
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,920
no other option.
But tomorrow, like for instance,
479
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,400
and, and, and we see this across
the board as well, right?
480
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,560
Like tomorrow, the, the, the
sons of a very successful
481
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,440
billionaire are not likely to
also want to be to hustle as
482
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240
much because the the fire in the
belly is gone by then, right,
483
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Because you've grown up, you
have grown up in comfort, you've
484
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,680
grown up in luxury.
You and and that's a good thing.
485
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,400
That's the point of human
evolution.
486
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,320
Like some people be more.
I know there's that.
487
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,760
There are people that say, Oh,
no, you, you, you got to hustle
488
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,200
as well.
You got to, you know, go through
489
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,200
the same rights of passage.
But I don't I disagree.
490
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,120
I'm saying that's the point to
to for every successful
491
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,360
generation to be more
comfortable than the previous,
492
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,200
to have choices that I wasn't
able to make or my and you know,
493
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,640
fathers and forefathers weren't
able to.
494
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,840
So I think that's where it comes
from.
495
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,640
The self actualization is just a
natural combination of growing
496
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,280
up in more comfort in being
afforded more choice.
497
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:13,560
Yeah.
And more free.
498
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,880
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
499
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,280
It's a very interesting point,
right.
500
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,440
I think it's I think it's
interesting because I think that
501
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,600
these days, the way that you
kind of see people manifesting
502
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,640
themselves or like starting
their own businesses.
503
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,720
They're not starting like a mom
and pop supermarket, you know,
504
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,200
like they want to start up one
day and hang on to their kids.
505
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,640
They're starting, they want to
be a podcaster.
506
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720
They want to be, you know,
social media guy.
507
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,720
They want to be, you know, they
want to be an entertainer, an
508
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,800
actor or singer, you know, and I
think it's good by the way, I
509
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,920
think I think it's really
beautiful.
510
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,640
I actually think that we
probably need that kind of the
511
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,360
way you describe like the
burning in your belly.
512
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,880
You I think that we need to
have, I think that it's a
513
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,640
company.
I think you have to balance in
514
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400
order to be in order to really
accomplish anything great.
515
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,560
You need to have that fire in
your belly.
516
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,160
It's just depends on which
direction you want to, you want
517
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,120
to handle it.
And then there's a lot less
518
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,120
urgency when you don't feel like
your next meal is on the line as
519
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,680
opposed to like, oh, let me just
do this podcast or not, you
520
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,200
know, and OK, fine.
So this week I only have two
521
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,760
episodes instead of three, but
my family is still eating, you
522
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,840
know, like, yeah.
So you it becomes a lot easier
523
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,480
to justify and rationalize and
you might not not even
524
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,920
necessarily have the same kind
of work ethic because you have
525
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,240
the comfort of knowing that you
know that not everything will be
526
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,000
fine for when you do.
Yeah, exactly.
527
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:29,840
Your head.
Right.
528
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,880
And you know, this is
interesting because I noticed
529
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,040
this even, you know, just to
give you a personal example, in,
530
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,960
in my life, like in in the USI
was on an H1B visa and I or, you
531
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,080
know, like an OPT visa, which is
kind of like a temporary work
532
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,400
visa students are able to sign
up for.
533
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,480
And I knew that I was, you know,
I had bills to pay.
534
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,120
I had, I, I had to pay rent in
Manhattan.
535
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,240
I had to put food on the table.
I needed to pay my, you know,
536
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,760
con Ed like party bills and
what.
537
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,880
Yeah, absolutely.
Like, and, and, you know, going
538
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,400
out at night, like, it was all a
lot to think about.
539
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,360
But.
And so that makes you more
540
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,640
cautious about how you tread in
the workplace.
541
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Like you, you're more likely to,
you know, if if your boss wants
542
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080
you to work till 1:00 AM all
five days, you will do it
543
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,480
because, you know, you may
grumble a little bit, but you do
544
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,640
it and you have more of an
impetus to do those things.
545
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,320
But now I realize in India, like
I'm a little more outspoken or,
546
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,320
you know, I'm, I'm more vocal
about establishing and
547
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,880
maintaining my boundaries.
I would be like, OK, it is 7:00
548
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,400
PM.
This is not, you know, a burning
549
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,760
issue.
It's not something that needs
550
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,520
resolution.
Now.
551
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,440
We can do this tomorrow.
So these are.
552
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680
All things I love that.
Yeah, yeah, these aren't but but
553
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,280
I also recognize that comes from
a place of privilege, right?
554
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Like that I, and over here, I
know I have a roof over my head.
555
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240
I, I stay with my family.
I, you know, there, there's
556
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,040
food.
Like I know I can, I can
557
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,240
survive.
So I, I'm able to make those
558
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,360
boundaries.
But I know, so I, I think it
559
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,680
comes down to that again, like
how, how much privilege you have
560
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,400
to, to, to rock the boat, so to
speak.
561
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's really,
yeah.
562
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,600
It's really interesting.
I, I, I don't think that it's
563
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,840
inherently a bad thing.
I think that the next challenge
564
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,640
that we're going to have as like
as a species as I go, as, as a
565
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,800
world, as, as, as humans, the
next challenge we're going to
566
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,440
have is that we're going to have
so much abundance and, you know,
567
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,120
and comfort and well, and
hopefully I listen, I hope, I
568
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,000
hope for everyone, right that,
that, that the question really
569
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,840
will become how, how much, how
disciplined are the individuals
570
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,000
now that they are comfortable to
put their all into something
571
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,280
else?
And that's going to be the next
572
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,520
challenge.
You know, the next challenge is
573
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320
if you don't have to go to work
tomorrow and you don't have to,
574
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,080
you know, answer that e-mail for
work because it could be
575
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640
responded to tomorrow, then then
what are you doing with today?
576
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Are you, you know, and, and
unfortunately, I think that, you
577
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,760
know, and by the way, I'm not
saying this because I'm anti
578
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,720
this.
I'm I'm really, I'm really, you
579
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,120
know, but like, for example, you
see more Americans smoking a lot
580
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,960
more weed now than which I know
that you are almost inherently.
581
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,120
What do you call it?
Like you can, from what I
582
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,960
remember, you weren't able to,
yeah, you could just consume and
583
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,800
not able to get Yeah, it just
didn't work for.
584
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,720
You, yeah, I, I had to, I
remember going with Ari the next
585
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,640
day because I was, I was like, I
need to feel this.
586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,160
So we went and got went to a
dispensary and got like their
587
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,880
highest dose edible.
And I remember for 45 minutes it
588
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,560
still hadn't hit me.
And I was like, you know, well,
589
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,680
maybe, maybe I'm just immune to
this.
590
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,000
Thing.
Yeah, yeah.
591
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,800
Yeah, yeah, so, so.
I think the people, but the
592
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280
people, the people that aren't
immune to it are kind of just
593
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,080
doing it as almost like, well, I
don't know what else to do now.
594
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,400
So let me just do this.
You know, I think that a lot of
595
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,320
a lot of people in America, as
weed has become a lot more
596
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,360
accessible and a lot more, you
know, legalized in more states.
597
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,760
I think that we're actually kind
of just like sedating ourselves
598
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160
by just saying, well, I did
enough today and I'm
599
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,880
comfortable.
So let me just, you know, sit at
600
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,440
home and take an edible or smoke
a Jay and then I'll be fine.
601
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,680
But that doesn't typically
translate into, you know, that
602
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,200
again, that but that burning
belly in your in your stomach
603
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,200
sometimes, you know, for some
people, they could manage it.
604
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:26,120
But I think that by and large,
we have to figure out a way to
605
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640
kind of incentivize and motivate
people to to be their best, not
606
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,600
because, you know, dinners on
the line, but because it's their
607
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,200
own lives.
And you only have one of it.
608
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,480
And like, you should treat your
own life seriously because
609
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,280
that's your life, you know?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
610
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,560
Want to tell me a little bit
about?
611
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Buddhism, Buddhism.
So I don't know a whole lot
612
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,400
about Buddhism.
I will be be very honest with
613
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,960
you.
I can speak to you more about
614
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Hinduism.
Oh, yes, because I'm sorry.
615
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,720
I I, I wait.
I don't know the difference
616
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,440
between them.
I'm so ignorant.
617
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,120
No, I apologize.
You know, in some parts of
618
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,760
India, they're, they're, they're
interchangeable.
619
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,080
And you know that this is an
interesting way to talk about
620
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,560
them as well, because in, in
India, the, the way Indic
621
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,200
religions are, the the lines are
blurred.
622
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,520
You know, like if you go to
Nepal, for instance, where one
623
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,240
stops being Hindu, where someone
starts being Buddhist is, is
624
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,200
very blurry because, you know,
in yeah, yeah.
625
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,600
Like in a person in Nepal.
And this is not just Nepal.
626
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,480
It's, it's in other parts of
India as well.
627
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,800
In parts of Sri Lanka too.
You could be worshipping Hindu
628
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,280
gods, but you can also worship
Buddha.
629
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,800
And you may have elements of
Buddhism in your life and you
630
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,360
may mix and match them with
elements of Hinduism.
631
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920
This is, it's, it's the South
and even Southeast Asia with
632
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,240
Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia,
it's very common for there to be
633
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,760
a little mishmash if these two
religions because Buddhism
634
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,640
sprung out of Hinduism.
It was almost a reaction to
635
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:06,800
early Vedic Hinduism and it was
it was kind of like a reformist
636
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,280
creed at that time.
And would it?
637
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Be fair to compare it to
Christianity and Judaism?
638
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,120
Or is that is that a bad
comparison?
639
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,080
It's it's.
It could be.
640
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,240
OK.
That's a very.
641
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Polite way of saying it.
And no, no, no, because I mean
642
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,960
it, it really depends.
There's no right or wrong
643
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,360
answers here.
There's, there's it, you know,
644
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,200
like it could be one way because
the Christianity did come out as
645
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,480
an offshoot of Islam.
Sorry of, of Judaism I spoke or
646
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,160
Judaism.
So it's, it's in that sense,
647
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,400
yes, Buddhism did emerge as an
offshoot of Hinduism, but yeah,
648
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,760
for very different motivations.
And but going back to to our
649
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,080
original point, it's it's how we
talk about religion here can be
650
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160
very different from how you talk
about it in the West or, you
651
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,360
know, in other parts of the
world where Abrahamic religions
652
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,880
are more neater boundaries.
And like, you know, a Jew is
653
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,960
very different from a Christian
and, you know, you will do a lot
654
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,760
of things very differently and
you're kind of cognizant at
655
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,679
that.
But in South and Southeast Asia,
656
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:11,520
those lines can be very blurred,
very blur.
657
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,560
It's interesting you talk.
So what's the foundation of
658
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,199
Hinduism?
What's the what are the
659
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,199
foundational ideas that you
have?
660
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,360
If you were to summarize to
someone like myself who knows
661
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,400
nothing, right?
And you, Yeah, how do you?
662
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,520
How would you?
Yeah, the so the main
663
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,800
foundational text or I can't
even say text of the Hindus
664
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,239
because it's an oral
transmission much like the Torah
665
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,040
was for for centuries is the
Veda.
666
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,520
So the Vedas were like the
Torah.
667
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,719
They were these series of hymns
that were divinely revealed,
668
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:47,719
much like the Ark of the
Covenant, 2 sages in like 2003
669
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:53,159
thousand BCE.
And they transmitted it through
670
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,040
an oral tradition for several
thousand years before they were
671
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,760
actually put down.
They formed the corpus of
672
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Hindus, Hinduism's spiritual
core.
673
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520
So they, and then everything
after that is like an
674
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,360
interpretation of it.
So they're they what?
675
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Every other strand of it has a
different interpretation of the
676
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,320
way it does and that and those
are the different schools of
677
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,080
thoughts that have emerged.
Cool, gotcha.
678
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,440
So there's a basic, so there's a
basic oral tradition.
679
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,960
As time goes on, there's
different understandings as to
680
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,520
what the tradition, you know,
how that, how that manifests and
681
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,920
how people understand it.
And then and then different
682
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,920
sects break off because so is so
is Buddhism a an offshoot or a
683
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,800
sect of Hinduism like that in
that sense?
684
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,080
So Buddhism, it rejected the
Vedas.
685
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,160
They had rejected the authority
of the Vedas and that's why it
686
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,920
was it was so revolutionary
groundbreaking at that time
687
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,080
because they said we don't
believe in this and we're our
688
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,600
own thing.
But a lot of concepts there is
689
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,960
there are all apps like
reincarnation, karma, the.
690
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,000
So what are those ideas?
What's what's what's Hinduism's
691
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,040
relationship with with afterlife
or recreation?
692
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,200
What do we believe about the
soul?
693
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,280
What do you believe about lives
and afterlife or previous lives?
694
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,000
What do we say?
Right, so reincarnate.
695
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,520
So Hinduism always is, let me
preface it by saying, a very
696
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,120
optimistic religion.
Even our villains.
697
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520
Even the worst person that you
can think of, Effie, will end up
698
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,160
in a good place eventually.
It's just that he will take more
699
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,880
lives to get there.
So every birth that you take is
700
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,720
a way for you to atone for the
sins of your previous birth and
701
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,800
to go closer to a state of the
Buddhists call it nothingness,
702
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,560
the Hindus call it Satchitanand,
which is pure bliss and of the
703
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,360
consciousness.
Now, these are very esoteric
704
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,680
concepts that I don't think we'd
want to get into, but it
705
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,600
essentially means that you go to
this undifferentiated state
706
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,440
where there is no happiness or
sadness.
707
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,440
There just is.
You know, it's not, it's, it's
708
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,320
not like we dream of a heaven in
the Christian or Islamic sense.
709
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,720
We aspire to reach, to become,
to merge into the supreme
710
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,600
consciousness that permeates us
at all times, but we're not
711
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,880
aware of because of our earthly
limitations.
712
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,960
That doesn't sound very far from
Judaism at all.
713
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,360
I mean, at least from my
understanding of Judaism, you
714
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,400
know, that, you know, we have
these notions of what we call
715
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,080
like Takana, which is to repair,
you know, like repairing
716
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,360
previous, you know, mistakes
and, you know, and repairing,
717
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,280
repairing our, our either our
own, if we, you know, we're
718
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,720
reincarnated our parents
mistakes.
719
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,240
And right.
It's a kind of, you know, I get
720
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,200
and I and I and, and there is
that also same theme of like
721
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,320
oneness, you know, the whole
interconnectedness and the
722
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,320
whole, you know, mass
consciousness.
723
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:55,880
Yeah, that I, I, I have such a
hard time believing that all
724
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120
these.
Religions, you guys have this
725
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,880
concept called tikkun olam,
right, which is to make the
726
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,280
world a better place by the
smallest of actions.
727
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,440
So it's, it's in a way to repair
it, repair it, correct.
728
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,520
Thank, thank, thank you for
using the right word.
729
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,320
So I, I remember reading about
it and I said, that's very
730
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,280
similar to, you know, how we
Hindus, we, we may not frame it
731
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,120
as repairing the world, but you
know, just being good and doing
732
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,760
good into the world so that it,
you leave it in a better place
733
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,920
than that which you received it.
So, so there's, you know, there
734
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,640
is, there is that idea as well
also, But I would say there's
735
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960
also a lot of orthopraxy in
Hinduism, similar to Judeaism.
736
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,120
Like there's a lot of ritualism,
right?
737
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,080
And things like that, which can,
which can get a little madding
738
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,280
and dizzying, But because it's,
it's, it's a very personal
739
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,200
religion, as we like to call it,
a way of life.
740
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,720
No, you're not.
You don't have to subscribe to
741
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:50,680
all of these things.
You don't have to do a lot of
742
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,080
these things to be a Hindu.
You just are, you know, it's so
743
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:56,680
like, you know, you know, in
Judaism, you have a lot of
744
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,240
mitzvot.
I It's mitzvahs that you have.
745
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,240
To you got it.
You got it?
746
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,040
Yeah.
So, but in Hinduism we don't
747
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,480
have it's not a hard and fasting
you may want you can do it.
748
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,400
We call them sunscars, you call
them mitzvahs.
749
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,440
You want to do it, you can do
it.
750
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,880
You don't want to do it.
That's fine.
751
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,440
You know, it's a lot more
flexible.
752
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,200
Interesting.
And there's no, are there
753
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,440
notions of like quote, UN quote
repercussions or I hate the word
754
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,680
punishment because I like to
think of more consequences to
755
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,680
actions.
For example, you know, if
756
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,240
someone doesn't invest in
healthy relationships, then
757
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:33,440
they're probably going to end up
just being lonely, you know, And
758
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,160
like, I don't call that a
punishment.
759
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,640
I call that a consequence of
years of years of a particular
760
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,320
action or behavior or mindset,
right?
761
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,680
You know, is that is that
emphasized?
762
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,920
To some degree, but there's
there's, you know, like there
763
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,600
is.
I think Indians tend to be a
764
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,120
little more God fearing like so
I think there's there's a
765
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,320
certain fatalism maybe that
people do believe in that
766
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,880
they're that it's a weird
contradiction, right?
767
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,040
Like there's there's this great
belief in karma and personal
768
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,600
agency, but there's also this
idea that.
769
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,040
There, there, there's
predestination.
770
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,880
So, so in, you know, in in
between that you kind of live
771
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,400
your life like there's because
you may, you may control
772
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,080
everything in this life and in
the here and now, but some
773
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,520
things that happened to you were
written because of what
774
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,320
happened, what you did in a
previous life.
775
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,560
Now you obviously have no memory
of that life.
776
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,960
So, so it kind of accounts
Hinduism kind of accounts of
777
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,080
both things.
Like for the things that you can
778
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,400
control, you obviously should be
doing more and, you know, do
779
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,400
your best.
But for the things that you
780
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,680
can't control, we, we'd say,
well, that is because you might
781
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,280
have done something bad in a
previous life.
782
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,320
And it's, it's, it's, you know,
a way of making sense of what
783
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,480
can't of, of the unknown.
Every religion has a way of
784
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,400
doing that.
And I think in Hinduism, we
785
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,360
attribute it to the the, you
know, it's like a carried
786
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,600
forward death from a previous
life.
787
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,240
So interesting, so cool.
I, I think it's, I think it's
788
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,200
beautiful.
I really, I, I think that that
789
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,680
idea in general, because I think
what it does is it gives you
790
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,560
license to kind of take
responsibility.
791
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,600
And then if things don't go the
way that you kind of expect it,
792
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,440
then you don't say, oh, how come
me you say, oh, well, this must
793
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,480
be the hand that I was dealt
with based on my, based on the
794
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,880
way that I behaved in a, in a
previous lifestyle.
795
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,240
And so now it's my job to kind
of rectify it.
796
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,040
So it's, I, I feel like that
still is a lot of agency.
797
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's that's actually a nice
798
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,600
way.
You've given it a new lease of
799
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,880
life in my own head.
Because there you.
800
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,240
Go it does it it does take away
a certain victimization because
801
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,480
I think that's something that,
you know, and I see this a lot
802
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,520
in the West, especially where
people that there's a little bit
803
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,680
of an I me myself, why me idea?
But but Hinduism tries to, you
804
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,600
know, give you a more 30,000
foot level view of your life and
805
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,160
say, well, you know, it's not
just you and it might be due to
806
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,320
something that happened in a
different life and and that's
807
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,160
and it's OK, you know, but yeah,
now think about what you can do
808
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,800
about it right now.
So I think, yeah.
809
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,280
So I think that that does take
away a little bit of that
810
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,680
following in self between the
You know you Can Fall chapter.
811
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:20,400
Awesome.
It's so it's so cool.
812
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,960
What's are a lot so in America
in the West these days, and I
813
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,200
think we're actually coming a
little bit the pendulum swinging
814
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,400
the other way.
But for probably the last 1520
815
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,440
years minimum, it was almost
kind of like a like religion or
816
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,400
God was kind of like almost like
a bad word.
817
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,920
You kind of didn't want to say
it or admit it because you kind
818
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,360
of almost seem to disqualify
yourself as someone that was
819
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,600
less than practical, which is,
it might be a little silly, but
820
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:48,920
you know what?
You can't.
821
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,120
You're going to do what you
could do.
822
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,400
Yeah.
What's, what's India?
823
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,280
What's the general population's
relationship with religion?
824
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,760
Are a lot more people religious
believers or religious or a lot
825
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,040
more people secular?
What's what's it like there?
826
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,560
So I'll give you a take that is
a little, you know, harsh, but
827
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,360
but, you know, it is what it is.
Yeah.
828
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,040
In India, religion is a little
bit of an opium of the masses
829
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,960
because see, we've suffered a
lot under colonialism and then
830
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,400
on and you know, right after
independence, we're we're,
831
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,840
we're, we're a democratic
country, yes, and a very
832
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,400
thriving, chaotic one.
But the, the institutions that
833
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600
we see today, they have taken a
long, long time to build and
834
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,800
they're not perfect.
So when people have no way to.
835
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,760
How do I put the frame this, you
know, when the institutions that
836
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,400
are meant to serve you and
promise you the life that you
837
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,960
deserve for short, when there's
corruption, when there's a lot
838
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,680
of red tape and and you're not
able to rise up and move to the
839
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,600
next level because of the
systemic injustices, then you
840
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,920
can you.
Give me an example of some of
841
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:02,840
them.
What are some?
842
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,440
What are some kind of injustices
that pop up?
843
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,280
Let's say, let's say there's a
village in a part of India in
844
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,880
the hinterlands and the, the,
the district collector or the
845
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,880
person in charge of taking care
of it is, is, is thoroughly
846
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,280
corrupt and embezzles funds.
So you, you know, you were
847
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,800
promised electricity or, you
know, and Wi-Fi and clean
848
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,640
drinking water next year.
But because of the corruption in
849
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,520
the system, because there's, you
know, problems with people
850
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,600
taking that cut bribes and
delivering substandard work, you
851
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,040
are not able to get 100%
electricity or the water
852
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,640
connection you are looking for
by the end of next year.
853
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,720
It may take two years, it may
take three years.
854
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,720
And even when it does come, it
may come with its fair set of
855
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,000
issues, it may not be as
promised.
856
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,280
So I think this is one example
of it, a very, you know,
857
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,560
contrived one, but it happens
that it happens at all levels.
858
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,120
It happens in different
capacities.
859
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Some states are better than
others.
860
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,160
It's not, you know, like India's
think of India as a
861
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,040
subcontinent.
It's it's like the European
862
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,480
Union.
Every region has its own story.
863
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,280
But I think it's some, you know,
if we, if we had to zoom out,
864
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,240
we, you can say with certainty
that this is a problem that
865
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,200
plagues a large cross section of
it.
866
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,200
And because of this, yeah, go
ahead, go ahead.
867
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:29,400
No, please, please.
Because of this.
868
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,320
Yeah, I.
Said because of this systemic
869
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,520
what I would call.
Corruption.
870
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,440
Or, you know, corruption.
A bureaucracy, Maybe even.
871
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,600
Yeah, this rock that exists,
people have to repose their
872
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,600
faith in something, right?
Like so where?
873
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,880
Who fills the void?
It is.
874
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,520
It is religion.
It is.
875
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,160
And that is why you see so much
religiosity.
876
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,520
And in some senses, religiosity
is proportionate to how
877
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,520
destitute cute they are.
Because the more you feel like
878
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,680
you have no way, no agency over
bettering your life, the more
879
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,040
you're going to trust an
external force that might offer
880
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,560
you salvation.
Perspective.
881
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,000
Such a thoughtful perspective.
So when you see like, so when
882
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,800
you see people being religious
in India, it's not so much
883
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,440
because, you know, they, they
want to do it.
884
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,920
Like in some ways it's a sad
thing because they have no other
885
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,120
way of, you know, making sense
of this life.
886
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,160
They they think that they.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
887
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,360
Some people, you know, like in
the US might or not just the US,
888
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,160
there's people doing it all
parts of the world may turn to,
889
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,880
to drugs to, you know, to, to
numb the pain and whatnot.
890
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,520
Some people turn to, to
religion.
891
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,720
So, you know, and, and I'm, I am
not a Marxist by any stretch of
892
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,440
imagination, but, but in I, I, I
will tell you that it does hold
893
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,280
true to some extent in India,
where it is a, it's a coping
894
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,280
mechanism.
It's a it's, it's a way of
895
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,840
filling the void that the the
systemic injustices leave in
896
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,120
India because for so many
people, it's the only way for
897
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,160
them to account for whatever is
happening to them.
898
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,440
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I feel like that's always
899
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,520
been the case with the religion,
right?
900
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,920
That's what makes it so, so, so
powerful.
901
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,680
And that's what makes it in so
enduring is that there's so many
902
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,360
people that kind of depend on it
to make sense of their lives.
903
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,360
Right, Right.
Which by the way, I don't think
904
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,880
is a bad thing necessarily,
because I think that I mean, my
905
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,240
understanding with, you know,
when I say, you know, when I,
906
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,760
when I say that I believe that
Judaism is, is, is truth, right?
907
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,600
I, I, I think that it's truth in
the sense that it's a guidebook
908
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:40,160
to live a successful and happy
and meaningful life for almost
909
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,640
anyone that wants to kind of
cling themselves to it.
910
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,440
And you know, it sounds the same
thing with Hinduism.
911
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,680
It sounds, and I know it's the
same thing with with all other
912
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,720
religions That right, you know,
that that it's almost like it
913
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:54,040
helps give us directions and
helps keep us grounded to I
914
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,200
always look at religion almost
like the evolution of
915
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,920
consciousness, you know, that
like we kind of go beyond the,
916
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:04,360
you know, our our primal
instincts for something greater,
917
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,880
typically community or
typically, you know, long term
918
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,320
investments that we wouldn't
ordinarily think to make right.
919
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,040
You know, I guess evolutionarily
or biologically, you know, out
920
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,880
of just, you know, desperate
need to survive just the moment,
921
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,560
you know, absolutely, I agree
with that.
922
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,720
Interesting.
So cool.
923
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,720
How how do politics work in
India?
924
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,840
What do you think of Modi?
Is that his name?
925
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,360
That's his name I heard.
I heard.
926
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,480
I heard him on Lux Friedman's
podcast you listen to.
927
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,720
That I don't think I'll be very
honest with you.
928
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,920
I typically don't listen to
podcasts.
929
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,720
I have heard some of yours
before, but thank you.
930
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,480
I yeah, but but I, you know, I
typically don't listen to
931
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,760
podcasts.
I'm more and even if I do, I
932
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,880
this sounds horrible, but I, I
read the transcript.
933
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,440
I love reading the transcript.
I'm more.
934
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,920
That's great.
Like I like, I like reading
935
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,640
things rather than listening to
things, even though it might be
936
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,480
the same thing, but but it's
just I feel like I process
937
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,560
information faster that way.
But no, I I haven't heard the
938
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,400
Friedman podcast.
But yes, Modi is his name.
939
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,800
That's the the Prime Minister
been serving his third term
940
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,520
right now.
Unlike the United States, we do
941
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,840
not have a term limit.
Yeah, a term limit.
942
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,680
So you can stand theoretically
as many times.
943
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,320
As you want, is it for?
Is it 4 year terms?
944
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,000
It's 5 S 5 year.
Term cool I.
945
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,560
See this is this is his 11th
issue going into 12th tier into
946
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,120
power.
And what what do people in India
947
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,400
think of him?
What are his what's what's his
948
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,760
is?
I don't I don't even know.
949
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,560
I like does does American
American left and right politics
950
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,600
translate to India left and
right politics or not quite?
951
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:52,280
That's a very good question.
So I, I, it doesn't, it really
952
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,640
doesn't because now let's say
Modi is the leader of what would
953
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,160
be considered the right wing
party in India because he's
954
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,760
touted to be Hindu nationalist
and all of that.
955
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,960
But now when I tell you about
our nationalist right wing
956
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,680
parties, they support a lot of
policies at the economic level
957
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,120
which are very socialist.
So right wing in India is more
958
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,200
to do with social conservatism
to some degree and not so much
959
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,600
with fiscal conservatism if that
makes sense to you.
960
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:22,320
That does make.
Sense.
961
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,200
Sure, yeah.
It's like, you know, over here,
962
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,120
a very right wing party like the
one that Modi leads at the
963
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:34,600
moment is notorious for
welfarism, for competitive
964
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,320
welfarism, as we call it, where
people are giving out dolls of
965
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,960
1200 rupees ���1500 if you belong
to a certain minority or if
966
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,000
you're a woman that earns less
than so much, which is, which is
967
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,760
unthinkable in a right wing
party and say, the UK or the US.
968
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,920
Yeah, the yeah, the, the more.
So, yeah.
969
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,840
To go going back to your
question, it doesn't need to map
970
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,760
onto the Indian political
context.
971
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,760
So what?
So what, what what's what's
972
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,440
India's general relationship to
Modi?
973
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,640
What do you think of him, if I
can ask you?
974
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,120
I mean, if you don't want to
answer, you don't have to.
975
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,120
But you know, like I don't want
you to be able to do anything.
976
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,760
I not at all, no, there's no
question you can ask me that
977
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,640
will fail.
But it's I'll briefly tell you,
978
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,080
India definitely likes Modi.
That's why he's enjoying his
979
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,960
12th year in power, although
that popularity has taken a hit
980
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,280
over the years, but but he's
still holding, holding on.
981
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,440
I mean, it's it's it's not
fallen perceptiously.
982
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,640
My own views of him are far a
lot more complicated.
983
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,280
I generally have not had a very
positive opinion of him because
984
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,320
I I don't agree with his
politics.
985
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,520
I don't agree with.
And and you know, when you see,
986
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,360
when you don't like someone in
their first and second year of
987
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,000
power, it's mostly theoretical,
right, Because you you it's
988
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,320
things they've said it's things
they said they're going to do
989
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,560
that inform your opinions.
But now into his third term, I,
990
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:01,920
I, I can see what he's done.
I can see the results of his
991
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,080
actions.
I can see the consequences of a
992
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,560
lot of them.
Like, for instance, there was a
993
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,080
time when he banned a certain
currency not in the Indian
994
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,280
system.
And all of us had to line up to,
995
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,640
you know, turn them in before a
deadline.
996
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,400
And this was ostensibly done to
curb corruption.
997
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,200
And everyone knows that had
absolutely no effect on it.
998
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,200
So there, there's been a lot of
short sighted policies which or
999
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,440
recently in Kashmir, where,
which kind of has led to the the
1000
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,400
war we're seeing right now.
There have been things that, you
1001
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,560
know, I I think could have been
done better where he's kind of
1002
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,120
played to the galleries and does
things just to win elections and
1003
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,880
you know, that are gimmicky, but
not thought through with a long
1004
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,840
term perspective.
So I think I think that is where
1005
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,040
Mike rouses with him typically
lie.
1006
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,640
OK, that sounds reasonable.
It sounds like it sounds like
1007
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,600
he's just, I mean, I don't know
how politics work, how
1008
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,080
politicians work, but it sounds
like pretty typical, you know,
1009
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,880
politics to me from from
American Point, you know, like
1010
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,680
our like our new head of the
FBI, Tash Patel saying, you
1011
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,520
know, for the last several, you
know, like the last year or two.
1012
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,960
Oh, well, you know, first day
that I get in, I'm going to turn
1013
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,240
the whole FBI building, you
know, the whole Hoover, the
1014
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:24,680
whole, the whole, the whole FBI
building into a Museum of the
1015
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,840
Deep State day one, you know,
and you know, and that's it.
1016
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,840
It's a great talking point.
It's very cute.
1017
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,320
It's a great cat, you know, like
it's, it got a lot of people to
1018
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,080
rally onto his side.
But it's, you know, and all
1019
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,000
sorts of practicality, like,
what are you gonna do?
1020
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,600
You know, like, how's that gonna
happen?
1021
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,880
Right, right.
And, you know, maybe maybe
1022
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,640
that's just the age we're living
in, right?
1023
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,640
I feel like it's the age of
social media and short attention
1024
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,520
spans like, and you have to do
things that you sometimes have
1025
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,720
to just say crazy things out
there to get people's attention,
1026
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,480
even if even if it's not the
best thing to say and if it's
1027
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,640
not the best thing to do.
So I think, you know, a lot of
1028
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,760
these demagogues, these
politicians that we see today,
1029
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,280
they promise things that grab
eyeballs and, you know,
1030
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,080
attention.
But are they, are they in the
1031
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,520
best interest of the country?
In the best?
1032
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,320
Interest.
How realistic are they even?
1033
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,000
How?
How realistic are they?
1034
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,560
God knows.
God does we.
1035
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,120
We know too, by the way.
God knows and we know you know
1036
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,480
the answer is.
Not we know, yeah.
1037
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,840
Yeah, it's not.
And the answer is not super hot.
1038
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,680
It's not super, super realistic.
It's true.
1039
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:28,600
It's true.
I see.
1040
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,280
And so, so got it.
So, so overall, he's been a
1041
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,440
leader for a long time.
Modi's been a leader for a long
1042
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,680
time overall, generally
speaking, obviously, because
1043
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,520
people, you know, there's a
third term, people have
1044
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,360
obviously liked him to a certain
degree, yeah.
1045
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,360
Is there a lot of competition or
is the like, are there a lot of
1046
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,840
other political figures that
could be really a threat to him
1047
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,760
or not really?
So you it would dizzy you to see
1048
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,160
India's political landscape
because we follow a British
1049
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,560
parliamentary style democracy.
So unlike the two party system
1050
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,320
that you have in presidential
style that you have in America,
1051
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:13,080
we have maybe like 100 different
parties of course in in
1052
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,000
parliament.
Coalitions and stuff like in
1053
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,880
Israel.
Yeah, Oh yeah, Israel's a great
1054
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,960
example.
So it's the, the, the, the
1055
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,840
system is very similar to Israel
where you need to sometimes, you
1056
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,040
know, if you don't get the
numbers yourself, you need to
1057
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,720
reach out across the aisle and
form alliances and whatnot.
1058
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,240
So we, we do have that.
But in the 1st 2 terms, Modi had
1059
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,120
no need for alliances.
They won pumping landslide
1060
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,840
majorities and there was, there
was no need for coalitions.
1061
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:47,640
But as a sign of his, you know,
slightly declining popularity
1062
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,320
and and a bit of anti
incumbency, the third term was
1063
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:56,560
not as resounding a victory.
He he had to cobble up an
1064
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,040
alliance with a bunch of people.
And yeah, so the current
1065
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,640
government is more of a
coalition government, but not
1066
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:09,120
not as not as much of A tenuous
coalition as the one BB
1067
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,400
currently is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1068
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,920
I was actually talking.
So I was talking to a friend of
1069
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,000
mine recently because I was
complaining about BB to him a
1070
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,880
little bit.
And he was like, listen, he
1071
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,800
goes, you know, I, I, I
certainly don't love BB myself.
1072
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,080
He's like, but you, he goes but,
and he goes.
1073
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,760
But we don't as, as Americans,
we don't think about the fact
1074
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,080
that if the, if, if the Israeli
government decided tomorrow, if
1075
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,240
one of the coalitions, one of
the people that he'd agreed to
1076
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,000
come with, you know, it's a
partnership with decided to
1077
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,920
leave, they could force
elections tomorrow and
1078
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,720
everything could fall apart.
And he goes and the person
1079
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,120
that's going to be, that's going
to replace BB tomorrow is not
1080
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,400
going to be someone that's going
to be more left-leaning.
1081
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,840
They're going to be far more,
far more right leaning and far
1082
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,840
more aggressive.
You know, and he's like, so BB's
1083
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,680
kind of has, is being forced to
stretch.
1084
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,280
And I, I, I, I actually do hear
that.
1085
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,080
And I think it's a point that's
really not made often enough in
1086
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,200
like in the, in the global
commentary on the war, is that,
1087
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,040
you know, that if he if he acts
in one way that really pisses
1088
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,000
off one person one day the wrong
way, the entire thing could
1089
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,760
really fall apart.
And then.
1090
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,600
And so I think that that should
give people at least a little
1091
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,320
bit of pause in terms of their
judgment.
1092
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,400
It certainly gave me a little
bit of pause.
1093
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,640
But you know, on the other hand,
it doesn't mean that you
1094
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,320
shouldn't still strive for for,
you know, better and for, you
1095
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,920
know, and for as good as you can
make it.
1096
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,160
You know, like I understand
that's reality.
1097
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,480
But you know the whole what
makes humanity great is that we
1098
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,400
dream and that we is that we
aspire and push for greater even
1099
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:37,520
though we don't think it's
possible.
1100
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,800
Absolutely, absolutely.
I, I think that is the beauty of
1101
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,400
coalition governments where you
can't steamroll, you know,
1102
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,280
people with, with one idea, you,
you have to go through a very
1103
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:53,880
consultative process to, to
build consensus, to build this
1104
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,120
kind of consent for your, for
your policies.
1105
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,600
And I think that it is slow.
It is, it is frustrating at
1106
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,200
times, but but I think it's in
the best interest of the of a
1107
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,840
country as diverse as ours.
I hope so.
1108
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,520
I really do think so.
Where is Pakistan relative to
1109
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,480
India?
Again, excuse my excuse, my
1110
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,360
absolute negligence, but no.
But where is Pakistan?
1111
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,760
What the heck is going on right
now?
1112
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,440
So.
Yeah, geographically.
1113
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,200
So Pakistan sits on the
northwestern frontier of India.
1114
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,840
So India is bounded by Pakistan
to its entire W to China in the
1115
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:36,400
north and and then to Myanmar or
Burma to the east SE.
1116
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,200
And then we have Bangladesh,
which is kind of we, we surround
1117
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,640
it and Sri Lanka as an island to
our southern waters.
1118
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,360
So that's, that's roughly the,
the, the geography of India.
1119
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,640
But yeah, Pakistan is, it's the
northwest.
1120
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,800
It's the Northwest, yeah.
How far is that from Bombay from
1121
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,240
where you are?
From Bombay, like Karachi would
1122
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,680
probably be about 500
kilometers, Yeah, like that's,
1123
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:06,320
that's like another post coastal
port city that belongs to
1124
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,520
Pakistan.
And they would probably be about
1125
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,520
500 kilometers from me.
So where Bombay is not
1126
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,240
incredibly far from Pakistan,
but it's also not super close
1127
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,520
like what we call the border
states like Punjab and Gujarat
1128
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,240
and Kashmir.
So those those are the states
1129
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,200
that have a direct border with
them.
1130
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,320
OK, And what's this tension?
How long has this tension been
1131
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,200
going on for?
Is this war out of the blue?
1132
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,480
Is it has it been coming?
You know, has it been boiling,
1133
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,680
simmering for a long time?
What's been going on with that?
1134
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,600
How does What's been?
What's the story with this?
1135
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,680
Let's let's draw parallels.
I always tell my Israeli and
1136
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,440
Jewish friends that it's India
and Pakistan is a divorce that
1137
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,640
went through, you know, like,
you know, Israel, Palestine is a
1138
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:53,040
divorce that never happens.
And here we have a divorce that
1139
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,640
actually went through.
We had lines drawn and we said,
1140
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,320
OK, this is yours, this is mine.
It was it was so clinical that
1141
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,160
when the British left, they even
divided the Indus Valley
1142
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,200
civilizations.
Excavations between our two
1143
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,520
countries so you imagine a 4000
year old civilization like you
1144
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,480
know that that drew out of our
in this river it was also
1145
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,640
divided like these porcelain
pots they go to India this.
1146
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,200
Is that mistake?
When did that happen?
1147
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,960
It was terror partition is is
probably one of the bloodiest
1148
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,320
events in history.
I think millions of people died,
1149
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,000
were displaced because the
British there it was, they
1150
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,040
essentially drew a line through
what was then undivided India.
1151
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,880
And the idea was at the heart of
it was when the when India
1152
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:49,280
started developing a sort of
national consciousness, it there
1153
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,440
was a section of Muslims that
felt like because they were not
1154
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,360
the majority in the
subcontinent, they may be lauded
1155
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,320
over by the Hindus who are in
the majority.
1156
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,840
So they wanted there was a
demand that they spearheaded for
1157
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,920
their own state, which was in
its inception, it was supposed
1158
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,880
to be a secular state, but
simply with a Muslim majority.
1159
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:15,560
So Pakistan was supposed to be
the mirror image of II was the a
1160
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,840
secular Hindu majority state,
while Pakistan was supposed to
1161
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,880
be a secular Muslim majority
state.
1162
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,160
The British under score
Ratcliffe was who had no
1163
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,600
experience whatsoever in any of
these things and and was seeing
1164
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,880
maps of India for the first
time.
1165
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:37,000
He drew a line through areas of
northwestern India where he felt
1166
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,400
like, you know, OK, this is a
more Muslim majority part.
1167
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,480
We put it there.
This is a more Hindu majority
1168
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,240
part.
Let's let's put it on this side
1169
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,840
of the line.
Sometimes he'd use rivers to
1170
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,400
mark boundaries.
And he eventually came up with a
1171
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,080
bifurcation of our two
countries.
1172
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,480
So that is where partition
happened.
1173
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,560
And there was a mass influx of
people because suddenly you
1174
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,280
found yourself on the wrong side
of the border.
1175
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,240
You're like, oh, well, that's
the Hindu majority country.
1176
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:03,920
But I had that side.
Oh, that's the Muslim majority
1177
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,920
country, but I had that side.
So people, you know, caught in
1178
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,000
the emotions were at an all time
high.
1179
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:16,360
People were rioting and killing.
And suddenly, you know, you have
1180
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,360
people coming from the other
side of the border displacing
1181
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,480
you and saying, hey, this is
mine.
1182
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,120
You no longer belong here.
This was a mess.
1183
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,280
It was.
It was a colossal mess and a
1184
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,080
dark, dark chapter in our
history.
1185
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,440
This this is the late 1800s,
this.
1186
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,800
Was no, this was this was 1947.
Very, very.
1187
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,320
Really the same time as Israel?
Yep, same time so.
1188
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,160
How come?
How come I don't know anything
1189
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,080
about this?
It's it's funny, the British
1190
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,040
talked both of us over at the
same time.
1191
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,440
So just like how they threw the
man screwed.
1192
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,160
Everything up, man, Seriously.
You you see the maps of Israel
1193
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,960
and Palestine when they drew it
for the Mandate of Palestine,
1194
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,600
when they're about to leave, it
was, it's just squiggly lines,
1195
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,200
OK, This is going to be the West
Bank.
1196
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,320
This is going to be Gaza.
This is going to be the
1197
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,160
internationally administered
territory of Jerusalem.
1198
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,080
It was, it was similar, like
someone just came and drew
1199
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,720
lines, squiggly lines and, you
know, and and then we were left
1200
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,600
to our devices.
They left, they were, they were
1201
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,320
like, it's not our problem
anymore.
1202
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,360
Let the let them sort this out
themselves.
1203
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,640
And just like you have the
Israel, you know, like the
1204
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,240
Nakbars, the Arabs call it, or
you know, the Israeli war of
1205
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,680
independence.
We had something similar here as
1206
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,800
well, where India and Pakistan,
shortly after this mass
1207
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,240
population transfer, went to war
over Kashmir because Kashmir is
1208
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,400
the northernmost part of India
and it had an interesting
1209
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,000
history.
So the population of Kashmir is
1210
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,280
predominantly Muslim, but it was
ruled by Hindu king.
1211
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,480
So in addition to when the
British left India, there were a
1212
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,160
lot of princely States, and the
princely states were given
1213
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,560
complete autonomy to decide
whether they wanted to join
1214
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,760
Pakistan or India.
And the king of Kashmir, being a
1215
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,160
Hindu, acceded to India.
He signed something called the
1216
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,040
instrument of a session and said
I want to be part of India.
1217
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:11,840
And it was ratified and done.
The Pakistanis were like, no,
1218
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,880
but it's predominantly Muslim.
It belongs with us.
1219
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,560
So there was, that was the first
war that broke out.
1220
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,240
And they send some irregular
Pashtun tribesmen into the
1221
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,120
capital of Kashmir.
We, we, we airlifted our
1222
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,920
soldiers into the city.
There was fighting and we
1223
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,360
managed to hold on to most of
it.
1224
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:31,760
They hold on to a little bit of
it.
1225
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,280
So that is the first war.
And what we are seeing right now
1226
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,480
is the most recent iteration of
that same conflict.
1227
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,240
Why did it start?
What did has it always been?
1228
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,560
Has it always kind of been
bubbling almost like how you
1229
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,320
know what I guess how Palestine
and Israel has been?
1230
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:54,800
Or is it because has it been
constantly just back and forth
1231
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,400
but with relatively peaceful
periods?
1232
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,480
Or is it just kind of us leave
it alone for now and then it
1233
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,040
kind of just blew up again
randomly one day?
1234
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:05,520
It's it's, it's turbulent.
It's like, I wouldn't say it's
1235
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,400
exactly like Israel Palestine,
but yeah, there, there are
1236
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,000
periods where you know, that,
that, that have been a little
1237
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,400
calm than others.
But by and large that that area
1238
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,280
has been relatively turbulent.
And, and I think the nature of
1239
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:22,280
the wars have changed because
initially it was, it was, it
1240
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,400
was, it was purely a land
dispute.
1241
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,280
But now what we are seeing today
is also kind of a response to
1242
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,800
terrorism because Pakistan has,
as a, as a matter of state
1243
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,760
policy, funded and provided
resources to a lot of terror
1244
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,440
groups, not dissimilar to the
way the Iranian Revolutionary
1245
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,240
Guard does.
You know, the Houthis and the
1246
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,800
Hezbollah and Hamas and all of
them, these are all, you know,
1247
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,520
if you trace the, for the
currency, the money, it, it all
1248
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,880
leads to offices in Qatar, in,
in Tehran and all of that.
1249
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,600
So similarly, Pakistan as a
matter of state policy has
1250
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:07,280
funded and chained a lot of
Islamist extremist groups to not
1251
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,960
just cause 'cause destabilize
India, but also other neighbors
1252
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,280
like Afghanistan.
So, so in, in some ways
1253
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:20,480
America's also involved in this
because back in the during the
1254
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,840
Cold War, when the US wanted to
push off the Soviets from
1255
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,200
Afghanistan, they punched a lot
of money into the Mujahideen,
1256
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,680
which was the local mullahs and
whatever in Afghanistan because
1257
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,760
they were the, the, the
resistance against the Soviets.
1258
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,400
But then after repulsing the
Soviets, what did the Mujahideen
1259
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,400
do?
And who was who was handling the
1260
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,000
Mujahideen?
There was the Pakistan deep
1261
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,640
state.
So the Pakistani deep state
1262
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,080
simply took the Mujahideen from
Afghanistan.
1263
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,600
They took those resources from
there and they moved it to
1264
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:55,240
Kashmir because now that the
Soviets were gone, they, you
1265
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,800
know, what do you do with this
reactionary restive force?
1266
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,560
So they, they, you know, they've
employed terrorist extremists
1267
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,080
like that to, to bleed India by
1000 cuts, as we call it.
1268
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,720
And, and it's, it's, it's
happened all across the length
1269
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:16,920
and breadth of this country.
Bomb blasts, kidnappings, mass
1270
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,400
executions.
That's that's what we saw most
1271
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:20,840
recently in Kashmir.
Really.
1272
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,840
Where, when, how recently I
didn't hear again.
1273
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,960
I feel so terrible about knowing
about any of this.
1274
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,280
No, no, no.
I mean, it's, it's totally fair.
1275
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:34,240
It's this happened on the 22nd
of April in, in, in Kashmir.
1276
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,720
So Kashmir is why is a very
Alpine mountainous region.
1277
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,480
It's considered the Switzerland
of India.
1278
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,600
And in the summer months, a lot
of people from the mainland tend
1279
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,120
to go there to holiday.
And especially, you know, in the
1280
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,880
past few years, a lot of
normalcy has returned to the the
1281
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,800
state and it's, it's no longer
been as on the boil, so to
1282
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,080
speak.
Yeah, turbulence.
1283
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,800
So, so there's been, there's
been an uptick in tourism, which
1284
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,120
is it's biggest source of
revenue.
1285
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:05,720
So there were a bunch of
tourists that were gallivanting,
1286
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,600
having a nice day in these
meadows in the mountains, when a
1287
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,960
bunch of terrorists swooped down
and indiscriminately started
1288
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,399
firing at them.
And they singled out all of the
1289
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:21,800
ones that were Hindu.
They, they spared the women,
1290
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,160
they killed the men in front of
them.
1291
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,439
And they, they literally put a
gun to their heads and said,
1292
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,040
well, if are you, are you Hindu
or are you Muslim?
1293
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,080
If you're, if you're Muslim,
recite these verses from the
1294
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,240
Quran so we know you're not
lying.
1295
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,880
If not, boom boom, you know it.
How many people died?
1296
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,080
About 28.
Man, really?
1297
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:48,800
It was, yeah, it was, it was, it
was a brutal massacre and so
1298
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,920
unexpected.
So it was, it was a bright sunny
1299
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:56,279
spring morning and afternoon at
that point, and people were just
1300
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:58,200
enjoying themselves, having a
good time.
1301
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,120
You know, they, you, if you see
pictures of it, there's picnic
1302
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,680
mats, there's people just taking
selfies when they hear gunshots.
1303
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,279
It, it, it was that sudden and
unexpected.
1304
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:14,520
So obviously that led to a huge
a lot of outrage in India and
1305
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:19,520
people demanded accountability.
And while there is a side to it.
1306
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,359
So is that what got these
tensions kicked off?
1307
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:24,200
Was this massive?
That's what got this kicked off.
1308
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,040
Yes, that was that was the spark
that led.
1309
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:32,319
Are these terrorist groups
calling when I went, I, I, I've
1310
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:34,399
been trying very hard.
It's, it's hard for me to do,
1311
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:36,319
but I, I really have been
working very hard at it to try
1312
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:40,160
to kind of understand what the
other side of in, in the
1313
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,319
conflict of saying what's the
other, what's the other side's
1314
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:47,319
rationalization, justification
or what's it, What's your story?
1315
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:53,560
So Pakistan, at least what they
tell themselves and, and what
1316
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:58,080
they try to sell in the world
media is that these are local
1317
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:02,640
Kashmiris that are aspiring to
independence and separatism,
1318
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,320
that they, they don't want to be
part of India, that they're
1319
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:10,320
being forcibly held on, you
know, occupied and colonized by,
1320
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,920
by the Delhi.
And and that and that their
1321
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,880
support for these extremists
should be seen as a as a as a
1322
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,600
support for freedom cycles.
Yes, classic, but but you know,
1323
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,880
Kashmir is a settled issue.
People, the people who they were
1324
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,160
Kashmiris were caught in this
carnage as well.
1325
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,720
And one of the immediate
responses, first from local
1326
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,320
Kashmiris, because you have just
killed their greatest source of
1327
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,240
revenue normalcy had returned to
their to their restive lands
1328
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,840
after so long.
They were finally, you know,
1329
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,360
welcoming tourists.
There was the businesses were
1330
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,240
running.
The economy seemed like it was
1331
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,080
making a turn for the good.
And then you send in these
1332
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,680
terrorists and obliterate all of
that.
1333
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,680
So, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard
to reconcile that, right?
1334
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,200
But, but it is, you know, it's,
it's just a matter of state
1335
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,440
policy.
Now, Pakistan has always tried
1336
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:13,720
to prop up this fake resistance
as a as a justification for its.
1337
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,760
Behavior.
Behavior, but but it it holds
1338
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,520
very little credibility and
doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
1339
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,440
Yeah.
Have you, you know, I've been.
1340
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,360
Have you been to Israel before?
I have, I have.
1341
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,160
I actually went as part of the
David project was through hello.
1342
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,040
It was funny.
It was almost like a like a
1343
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:34,320
birthright trip because I didn't
pay penny for it and.
1344
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,720
That's awesome.
How long do you go for?
1345
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,680
A week, 10 days.
Yeah, it was about 10 days.
1346
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:44,880
And did you go to, I'm assuming
you went to to the Old City in
1347
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,040
Jerusalem, right?
I did.
1348
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,400
I did.
So did you walk through the Arab
1349
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:54,000
shook there?
Against the advice of my work
1350
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,600
group, I did.
I did I Right.
1351
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,400
So so yeah, the.
Reason why, the reason why I'm
1352
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,000
asking you, the point I'm trying
to get to.
1353
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,360
So, you know, I used to be
afraid.
1354
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,320
My grandfather, my Saba, my
mom's father, he died a couple
1355
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:09,360
years ago, but he's an amazing
man and he loved Israel.
1356
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,520
And one thing, you know, and I
used to be afraid to walk
1357
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,520
through the Arab, the Arab shook
the Arab marketplace.
1358
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,800
And he's and he told and he's
like a friend.
1359
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:20,560
And he goes, they, these guys
just want a living.
1360
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:22,520
They just want to put food on
the table.
1361
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:24,760
They just want, you know, to
feed their families.
1362
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:26,960
They just want to live their
lives and have their businesses.
1363
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,960
He's like, if anything happens
to you, they lose their living
1364
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,920
for weeks or months at a time.
No one trusts them.
1365
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:36,280
He goes so they're just so they
want to live.
1366
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:39,440
They want to get along as well
as as much as anyone else does.
1367
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,880
And he goes, if you have a
couple of, you know, extremists
1368
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,240
or young kids or whatever it is,
you know, he goes,
1369
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,640
unfortunately, you have to keep
your eyes peeled, He goes.
1370
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,840
But by and large, everyone just
kind of wants to live their
1371
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,240
lives and do their things.
And it really made me feel a lot
1372
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:52,800
better about it.
And not only to make me feel
1373
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,680
better about it, but I actually
felt more inclined to stop in
1374
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,080
stores along the way.
And just that, you know, kind of
1375
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,080
look and see what they have and,
you know, to make them feel
1376
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,840
like, hey, you know, we're
working together over here.
1377
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:03,600
And I understand that you're
just trying to live and I'm just
1378
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,720
trying to live.
But, you know, but humanizes put
1379
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:08,920
it the, yeah, we need to do
that.
1380
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,520
So we really need to do that,
you know, and, you know, of
1381
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:16,440
course, you know, of course when
things like, you know, mass, you
1382
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:19,320
know, mass murders or, you know,
terrorist attacks happen,
1383
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,600
obviously, you know, there's,
you know, there's no excuses.
1384
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,800
But, you know, but, yeah, to
humanize and to say, listen,
1385
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,800
like a lot of these people just
want to live, you know, they
1386
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,720
just want to, you know, they
just want to be, you know, so,
1387
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:32,640
so.
And if you notice, if you notice
1388
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,960
Fe, it's always the, the, it's,
it's always people from outside
1389
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:37,720
that come and start most of
these troubles.
1390
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,840
It's now the people with the,
with skin in, in, in the, in the
1391
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,520
game or people, you know who
it's, it's all the
1392
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,320
radicalization always comes from
these, these people trying to
1393
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,440
start proxy wars and, and
instigate them.
1394
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,640
And, and, and you know, we know
in Israel Palestine's case,
1395
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,920
there's so many parties that are
trying, you know, that have
1396
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,200
their fingers in the pie.
It's the same case even with
1397
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,320
Kashmir, where Pakistan is
always trying to light this
1398
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,560
fuse, even though people there
is no appetite for it.
1399
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,880
It's a, it's a done and dusted.
It's a settled issue.
1400
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,800
But they they will not stop
because that's that.
1401
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,760
There's also something to be
said about how Pakistan is not a
1402
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,320
a vibrant democracy like us.
It's more of a military run
1403
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,080
democracy because the army views
disproportionate power there.
1404
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:31,160
And these conflicts with India
are the only thing that provide
1405
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,800
them legitimacy.
They are.
1406
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,720
They're bloated, corrupt, rotten
to the boat, and the only thing
1407
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:42,200
that allows them to keep up a
certain image in the public I is
1408
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:44,720
is these manufactured conflicts
with India?
1409
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,000
Is this constant needling?
Is this?
1410
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,640
Because it gives them something,
it gives them something to put
1411
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,960
on their resume.
Hey, we did this, you know,
1412
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,760
we're trying to do this for this
sake, you know.
1413
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,720
And like, you know, first of
all, who asked?
1414
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,880
You know #1 you know, the
people, the people that are
1415
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:00,920
living there don't seem to ask
if that's if they're, if
1416
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:02,680
they're, if they're living is
based on tourism.
1417
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:04,160
And now they can't get that, you
know?
1418
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,640
Exactly, exactly.
And the Pakistani army knows
1419
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,160
this all all too well.
They know that it's, it's not
1420
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:12,680
just about putting it on a
resume, but also the only thing
1421
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,800
that will make them look good in
the eyes of the public, right.
1422
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,400
These because they need a they
need a, they need a villain.
1423
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,800
And India and these manufactured
conflicts constant the the
1424
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,560
Pakistani people need to realize
that the true villains are their
1425
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,840
own military who cannot allow
them to, you know, that the
1426
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,000
country is backward.
It's funny, Effie, when we got
1427
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,320
partitioned, Pakistan had the
higher GDP per capita Pakistan
1428
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,960
had.
Yeah, Pakistan got the more
1429
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:44,000
fertile lands Pakistan got.
You know, we were, we were
1430
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,720
generous in some ways in giving
them that.
1431
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:48,960
And they they were, they were
wealthier than us when we
1432
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:54,120
started off in 1947.
By the time you know these in
1433
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,920
the last 10 years, they we've
left them far, far behind in the
1434
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,560
last few decades.
Yeah, they're.
1435
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:03,720
Priorities have been very
different from us.
1436
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,560
So this is what the Pakistani
public doesn't realize that the
1437
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,520
military is short changing them.
It constantly props up this
1438
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:16,160
bogeyman of India and Kashmir to
keep them embroiled in this
1439
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:20,760
nonsense of almost conflict.
But it's not in their interest
1440
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,200
anymore.
Yeah, I, the way, you know, I, I
1441
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,560
think, and this actually almost
goes full circle at the
1442
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:28,960
beginning of our conversation,
you know, the way that you can
1443
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,560
kind of get people to get on
board with you is either with
1444
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,000
junk food or healthy food,
right.
1445
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,160
And junk food would be to kind
of blame someone else and
1446
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,840
villainize other people to kind
of get people to rally around a
1447
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,280
common enemy as opposed to
striving for a common good.
1448
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,440
Where how do we get everyone to
be happy, you know, and how do
1449
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:46,000
we promise a better life for
everyone?
1450
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,000
You know, and and I feel like
you can either run from a
1451
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,480
position of be afraid of
everyone else and they're
1452
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,280
they're trying to get you as
opposed to what can we do to get
1453
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,960
everyone to be happy and
successful and comfortable and
1454
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,480
interesting too.
Well, yeah.
1455
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:04,000
Interesting.
Interesting.
1456
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,760
So what's the warp?
So this mass, so the mass
1457
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,440
execution happened.
And what was India's response?
1458
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,400
India, it, it, you know, this
time it, it was a calibrated
1459
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,400
response.
We didn't, we didn't go all hand
1460
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,920
starting out, but we, we, I
think the first significant
1461
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,840
decision we took was to cancel a
water treaty that we have over
1462
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,960
the, in this river that runs
through both of our countries
1463
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:32,120
and say that we're no longer,
you know, going to uphold it.
1464
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,640
So the treaty essentially
allowed for a division of the
1465
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,880
the water's resources.
But now we're like, we're not
1466
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,800
going to hold on to it.
We will decide how much of that
1467
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,520
water we keep for ourselves.
We may build dams on the upper
1468
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,520
riparians, which is the upper
parts of the river, and you may
1469
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:56,000
not get the water you want.
So we're like, this is serious.
1470
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:57,960
Because initially, initially it
was not.
1471
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:00,600
It was initially an economic
response, not a military.
1472
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:01,920
Response.
Yeah, it started with an
1473
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:06,080
economic response.
And, you know, we as one
1474
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,360
politician put in blood and
water cannot flow together.
1475
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,640
So it's, and I, I think there is
a recognition in India, this is
1476
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:14,200
not the first time this is
happening, by the way.
1477
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,840
This is, you know, terrorist
attacks like these and in some
1478
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,200
senses even worse than these
have happened over a series of
1479
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,120
decades, even in Bombay.
Bombay is perhaps the city that
1480
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:29,240
has suffered the most.
And each time we have tried to
1481
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,920
be accommodating.
We've tried, we've tried various
1482
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,880
ways, we've tried to sanction
Pakistan, we've tried to isolate
1483
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:36,280
them in the international
community.
1484
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,400
We've tried to put them on great
lists in the financial world.
1485
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:43,240
But it it has not borne the
results we've wanted.
1486
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,520
And I think now there's a
recognition that it has to be
1487
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:48,800
somewhat, you know, like Israeli
style.
1488
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:54,040
We need to show Hotstar and
yeah, you know, get show them
1489
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,800
that it's it we will hit hard
and in all senses.
1490
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:03,800
So the economic penalties
obviously were what we started
1491
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,800
out with and then they
progressed.
1492
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,960
And this Wednesday we launched
missiles in ballistic missiles
1493
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:16,400
at what we, you know, see as
terror camps inside deep inside
1494
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:21,280
Pakistan.
We we there were nine sites that
1495
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,680
the Army had singled out and on
on Wednesday night, we just blew
1496
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,000
them all up from within our
airspace.
1497
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:32,880
So that that that took them by
surprise, I bet.
1498
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,160
Yeah, Yeah.
There was suddenly all these
1499
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,400
videos of like, kaboom, like we
didn't see that coming.
1500
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:43,320
And I think we killed close to
100 and 150 terrorists,
1501
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,840
including the man.
I don't know if you did you know
1502
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,840
about Daniel Pearl.
No, Tell me about him.
1503
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,080
So Daniel Paul was a Jewish
American journalist, a very
1504
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,920
famous 1.
I believe he worked for CNN but
1505
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,360
I could be wrong.
Who was investigating during the
1506
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,160
years of the War on Terror and
etc.
1507
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:09,800
He was investigating links in
Pakistans Punjab region.
1508
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:15,640
And it's it's over there that he
gets kidnapped by Mullah Omar
1509
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:20,920
Sheikh and is forced to confess
that he's a Jew on camera and
1510
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,840
that he will not convert to
Islam and.
1511
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:26,840
Etc.
And that he you know that he's,
1512
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:32,160
you know, has time in Israel and
and they behead him on camera.
1513
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:33,920
They.
Did so recently, yeah.
1514
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:35,920
This was this was many years
ago.
1515
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,240
It was I think at least two
decades ago, but it was it was a
1516
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:44,120
very brutal, brutal killing of a
Jewish American journalist that
1517
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,600
shook the world.
And one of the perpetrators of
1518
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:54,440
faith was actually, you know,
part of the, the terror matrix
1519
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:57,040
that we eliminated during
Wednesday night's strike.
1520
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:00,520
So, you know, there's a lot of
interconnectedness here because
1521
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,560
these these terrorists, it's,
they don't only target India.
1522
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:06,000
They also look for Jewish
targets.
1523
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,280
They also look for Israeli
targets.
1524
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:11,240
They're also active in
Afghanistan.
1525
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,960
So, so it's a it's a whole, it's
a whole apparatus.
1526
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:17,320
And I think the strikes that we
did on Wednesday were were our
1527
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:23,000
response to them.
Is there is there concern about
1528
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,400
nuclear escalation or is that
just Western media blowing
1529
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,440
things out of proportion?
There always is because we're
1530
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:32,200
both nuclear armed countries
they have about.
1531
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:34,920
I'll be scared shitless, right?
Quite frankly.
1532
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:38,440
It's never going to happen if
you because see, I'll tell you
1533
01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:40,840
why very logically, this is what
I tell people.
1534
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,840
See, when the US and the USSR
spot you will you guys were
1535
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,120
separated by huge oceans and you
know, on different sides of the
1536
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:52,160
world, India and Pakistan share
the same land, we share the same
1537
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,560
rivers, the same sometimes
families, clans, you.
1538
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:56,920
Can't blow one up without
blowing both up.
1539
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,560
Yes, exactly.
It is mutually assured
1540
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:02,200
destruction and it's not as
simple as you know.
1541
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:06,120
So Pakistan has actually, you
know, it's quite devious that
1542
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,040
way.
It has developed and I think it
1543
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:09,880
is one of the only countries
that has developed these
1544
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:11,960
something called tactical
nuclear weapons.
1545
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,960
So tactical nuclear weapons are
basically bonsai miniaturized
1546
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,240
nuclear warheads that they've
developed specifically to Jews
1547
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:22,400
against Indian conventional
forces.
1548
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:26,000
So because they know they cannot
match the size and strength of
1549
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,720
the Indian military tomorrow,
they're like, if, if shit gets
1550
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,760
hits the roof, they might launch
a new a small baby nuke on our,
1551
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,880
on our forces on the
battlefield.
1552
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,720
So it's, you know, but The thing
is with that.
1553
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,720
So that's more likely than like
a full blown nuclear exchange.
1554
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,800
Yeah, Yeah.
So that's that's more likely.
1555
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,400
So these strategic nuclear
warheads, as they call them, are
1556
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:48,920
more likely than the more
conventional.
1557
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:51,960
But the point is that even if
they use one of those, the
1558
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,760
fallout will be on regions that
both of us share.
1559
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,880
We both share the same rivers.
We both like, you know, when
1560
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,000
Chernobyl happened, which
funnily enough I had the
1561
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:03,400
privilege of visiting before I
got invaded.
1562
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,280
No way.
Yeah, I was in Chernobyl 20
1563
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:12,640
December Jan 2022, just before
the war.
1564
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:16,880
Wow, yeah.
So you know what, when Chernobyl
1565
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:21,120
happened in the 1980s, there was
a lot of concern in Western
1566
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:24,280
European capitals about nuclear
fallout, like the, the winds
1567
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:27,880
taking the, the, the ashes to
Paris and Amsterdam and Warsaw.
1568
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,560
So what the the Ukrainians did
was they dug up 6 feet of the
1569
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:37,560
topsoil wherever in the fallout
zone and they they put them in
1570
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:41,120
lead containers to contain the
radiation.
1571
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,800
Yeah, that's right.
So that's to give you an idea
1572
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,960
about how you may, there may be
a nuclear fallout in one part,
1573
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,880
but the effects of it,
especially if you share a
1574
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,400
contiguous landmass, will be
felt by you sooner or later.
1575
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,960
So in our case, because we're
like neighbors that share so
1576
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:02,920
much you, you can't bomb one
side without feeling the effects
1577
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,240
on yours as well.
And this is this is just the
1578
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,080
effects.
Of course, India has a policy of
1579
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,120
no first use.
So we will never be the first
1580
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:14,080
ones to use nukes.
But should we ever get the
1581
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:17,680
indication that you're going to
use one on us, we have a policy
1582
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:20,520
of total annihilation.
So we launch all of them.
1583
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,240
You will be wiped out.
Really.
1584
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,760
Even though it might affect
India in the long term.
1585
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,960
Even though if so it's called,
there's a, there's a fancier
1586
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,680
word in international relations
that's escaping my mind right
1587
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,920
now.
It's just 2:00 AM, but it's
1588
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,480
called, it's called, it's
called, it's called, it's called
1589
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,240
like total annihilation or
something like that.
1590
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,640
So it's not like we will respond
in a measured way to a nuclear
1591
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:43,840
attack.
If there's even a tactical
1592
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,000
nuclear warhead launched there
as a small one, We release all
1593
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,240
of them.
We we let the you know, gates
1594
01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:52,680
open that there's no coming
back.
1595
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,760
Yeah, war scares the crap out of
me these days, man.
1596
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,760
You know, I mean, when what?
You know, I, I, I about a year
1597
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,760
ago, you know, actually I, you
know, I, I did I tell you I had
1598
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,480
a second kid.
I'm sorry.
1599
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:07,960
Did I tell you that I had a
second kid the other week?
1600
01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:11,720
No, I I know it's the first one
I didn't know.
1601
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,160
Yes, I had a baby girl.
I had a baby girl, right?
1602
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:16,280
Oh my God, congratulations.
Thank you.
1603
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:22,120
Her name's Ariela, and she looks
like an alien still, so we have
1604
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:23,360
to give her, like, another
couple of weeks.
1605
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,760
But she's so cute.
But yeah, it's really exciting.
1606
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:28,000
I'll send you some pictures
after.
1607
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,360
But, you know, I was going last
year.
1608
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:34,480
I was going.
I remember when, when I ran
1609
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:36,880
when, when, when it really
looked like we're on the cusp of
1610
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:38,760
World War Three, Right.
Yeah.
1611
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:42,280
Between, you know, and I was
going for a jog one time, you
1612
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,000
know, one night when I heard the
news.
1613
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,520
And I was just while I was think
jogging, thinking like how much
1614
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,880
it would suck that, you know,
if, if, if, if Florida got
1615
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:56,560
bombed, right.
And I who in killing myself to
1616
01:25:57,480 --> 01:25:59,840
support a family and raise them
and live my life and be
1617
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:01,240
productive and do the right
things.
1618
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:04,560
You know, I lose everything
because of a decision that a,
1619
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,840
you know, because of a decision
a political leader made that
1620
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:10,680
translated into destroying my
life.
1621
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:12,680
I was like, yeah, I just can't.
I can't.
1622
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:16,160
Like just that notion itself
made me, made it hard to stomach
1623
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:19,320
any kind of notion of war.
And I mean, yeah, it really
1624
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:23,280
scares the heck out of me.
And it really makes me, I think
1625
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,040
I have a different kind of
appreciation.
1626
01:26:26,480 --> 01:26:31,480
Like, I don't think that you
could still take sides and say
1627
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:34,520
that war sucks and shouldn't
happen.
1628
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:39,680
You could still say that you
have a moral alignment with one
1629
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:42,920
side or another.
That doesn't necessarily mean
1630
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,720
that it has to escalate to
people minding their own
1631
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:49,360
business getting blown up.
And that's really, you know, I
1632
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:50,920
feel I've been feeling that
really strongly.
1633
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,360
And, you know, so when I heard
about this happening in India,
1634
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,640
just, you know, just last week,
you know, I felt very strongly,
1635
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:02,600
just like, oh, man, like, you
know, it's so heartbreaking.
1636
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,800
And like to hear that, you know,
more that's happening.
1637
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:06,560
It's just, it's so upsetting.
It's so sad.
1638
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:09,840
It's so sad.
Where we're used to it at this
1639
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,160
point and.
That's even worse, right?
1640
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,960
Yeah, in some ways getting numb
to war is.
1641
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:21,080
So when you think about terror
attacks, I mean, in the recent
1642
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,840
past, they have come down to
Maldives credit.
1643
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:28,600
He has been pretty good at
ramping up internal security,
1644
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:33,440
these lapses notwithstanding.
But you know, they're they're a
1645
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:35,680
feature of our lives here.
Like for instance, when I have
1646
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,560
to use our version of the
subway, it's not subway, it's
1647
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,800
elevated here.
I have to go through Fe a metal
1648
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,080
detector and I have to go
through a man frisking me on a
1649
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,360
pedestal with a point.
Yes, so so.
1650
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:54,080
And would you prefer that to not
having that security on a big
1651
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:56,480
public thing like, like would
you rather that?
1652
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,840
Yeah, because I know that I'm
more secure, you know that
1653
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,080
there's.
I think the subways need
1654
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:05,760
security.
I've been saying for years, I
1655
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:07,960
think it's crazy that anyone
would just walk down a subway,
1656
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:11,880
put $2.00 in, and just go
anywhere they want to and be
1657
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,320
with the entire world.
You know, like, it's scary.
1658
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,640
But, you know, like the kind of
security that we have for our
1659
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,960
public transport, a lot of our
public transport, our malls, our
1660
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:24,880
cinemas, they're akin to what
you would see at an airport.
1661
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,880
So, you know, we, we have to put
our things in a tray and the
1662
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,920
tray goes through a scanner.
Then I go through a metal
1663
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:32,680
detector.
And as soon as I emerge from the
1664
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:34,960
other side of the metal
detector, there's a man or woman
1665
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,000
standing with a wand that will
pack me down.
1666
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,880
This is this happens every time
we enter cinema halls, malls,
1667
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:47,480
shopping complexes, big events,
stadiums, and of course, public
1668
01:28:47,480 --> 01:28:50,720
transport as well.
So this is the reality of our
1669
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:53,520
life here.
And, and sure, it does take us a
1670
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,280
few extra 10 seconds.
It adds an extra level of
1671
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,680
complexity and, you know, fast
to our lives.
1672
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,920
But but I know that it is for
our security and, and we live in
1673
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:04,680
a very volatile part of the
world.
1674
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:09,880
So I'd rather spend those extra
10 seconds then then getting
1675
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,960
blown up.
Yeah, definitely.
1676
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,600
Oh, man, Oh, man.
OK, I want to ask you one last
1677
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:17,480
question.
I feel terrible.
1678
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:19,120
I feel bad that it's 2:00 in the
morning.
1679
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,320
No.
Don't be I've been awake for the
1680
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,880
last few nights because of all
of this and I I mean not not out
1681
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,160
of stress, but I, I love
collecting OS ink, which is like
1682
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,960
open source intelligence and how
do you?
1683
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:32,160
Collect it.
Where do you get it from?
1684
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,360
So there's, there's an app that
I use very rudimentary called
1685
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,640
flight red R24, which shows you
all the flights in the world
1686
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:43,960
live, like on the map, you can
tell the call sign, all of that.
1687
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:45,840
So that's one way.
There's there's, you know,
1688
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:47,800
certain Reddit forums, defense
forums.
1689
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,600
So I, I lurk everywhere and try
to like figure out the
1690
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:54,240
narratives before they hit the
mainstream media.
1691
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,520
So that's that's like it's a
little quirk where I had but
1692
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:58,760
but.
That's awesome, don't you?
1693
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:05,480
Don't feel bad.
Is the mainstream media more
1694
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,280
trusted in India than it is in
America?
1695
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,160
Because right now no one trusts
mainstream media.
1696
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:11,920
So like everyone has to get
their sources from like
1697
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:14,280
literally anywhere.
It's so crazy.
1698
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,240
I don't think it's reached the
American level, but there are
1699
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:20,560
moments and also there's
something to be said about how
1700
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:22,400
it depends on who you ask,
right?
1701
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:26,160
Like because a lot of the media
houses in the past few years in
1702
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:29,320
especially during more these
second term, they kind of got
1703
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:33,760
compromised in that they, they
they switched tax and are
1704
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,600
completely pro government at
this point and are very
1705
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:41,480
reluctant to criticize any of
the policies that come from the
1706
01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:44,160
center.
So I think there's, you know, if
1707
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:46,800
you speak to people who voted
for that party, they'll be like,
1708
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:47,960
oh, there's nothing wrong.
This is oh.
1709
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:52,320
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, so, so you know, it's it's
1710
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:52,760
I got.
You.
1711
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:54,280
Yeah, I got you.
What?
1712
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,000
So I saw, I saw one of your
stories.
1713
01:30:56,000 --> 01:31:01,400
I wanted to and I wanted to ask
you about it, about Trump, about
1714
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,600
Trump being involved in the
ceasefire and that you didn't
1715
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:08,200
seem thrilled with that, right?
Absolutely not and.
1716
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:10,880
It just, I would love to, I
would love to hear your, your
1717
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,640
thoughts on that and why.
It just comes down to our
1718
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,080
experiences with colonialism,
right?
1719
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:21,560
Like we don't we've we've been
up lorded over by a, a third
1720
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,520
party of a country that had no
business being in our land in
1721
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,560
our involved in our affairs.
So, so that kind of experience
1722
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,280
really informs your policies
going forward as an independent
1723
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,840
country.
So it has been a matter of
1724
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,040
Indian state policies, see,
since the birth of this country
1725
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:44,400
to be non aligned and to, to
chart it's own path and to not
1726
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,960
be in any block.
And this, this is sometimes to
1727
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:49,400
our own detriment, right?
Because if you, if you're not,
1728
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:54,440
we, we a lot of our allies are
not as vocal about supporting us
1729
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:56,760
because we're not as vocal about
supporting them.
1730
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:01,400
We try to maintain equanimity.
So the point of all this is that
1731
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,520
we, we generally like being
independent in how we deal with
1732
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,480
things.
And it has also been a matter of
1733
01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:12,400
state policy for India to keep
Kashmir A bilateral issue
1734
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:15,200
between India and Pakistan.
As we, I'll be very honest with
1735
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,680
you, if yesterday we heard that
Pakistan had wanted to do a
1736
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,120
ceasefire with us and it had
come from the two of us, that's
1737
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,080
India and Pakistan, I would be a
little disappointed because we
1738
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:30,240
couldn't book their ass more.
But I take it, I take it but we
1739
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:35,560
do not like Western countries
meddling in our affairs and
1740
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:40,000
certainly not people pre empting
it and and stealing credit for
1741
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:41,880
it.
And and I think there's also,
1742
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:45,080
you know, a certain
dismissiveness in this current
1743
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,920
administration and the way it
treats this conflict like all
1744
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:49,880
these are just two children.
Get over it.
1745
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:53,280
You know, this is not serious
because you think about it.
1746
01:32:53,440 --> 01:32:59,080
If if 26 people were massacred
in Aspen in a ski resort, OK,
1747
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,280
one fine spring morning, how?
Was it for that?
1748
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,080
Yeah.
Like America, it, you know, it
1749
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,640
got enlisted so many Western
countries that had nothing to do
1750
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:13,680
with 911 in its War on Terror.
And we'll not get into the weeds
1751
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:17,320
of it, but but when it when it
happens to one of you guys,
1752
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,880
everybody's supposed to stand up
and take no and it's a big deal.
1753
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,040
But when it's with us, then it's
it's treated with, you know,
1754
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:28,840
short shift and a certain
dismissiveness that I've noticed
1755
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,640
in the tone and tenor of
American statement.
1756
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:35,440
Well, I would like to change
that, quite frankly.
1757
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,400
I mean, that's why I think it's
important to even learn about
1758
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,800
this from you and put this out
because I think that it's I
1759
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,960
think it is relevant.
I think it is important again,
1760
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,240
even if India and Pakistan keep
it between the two of you guys,
1761
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,320
yeah, the words to still be
aware and to still be aware as
1762
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:54,560
to the value and the history and
you know what's going on, you
1763
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:55,520
know?
Yeah, yeah.
1764
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,520
The complexities for sure, for
sure, for sure.
1765
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:02,520
Is there, are there parts of of
Krishma of Krishmere that are
1766
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:05,920
almost like religious grounds
similar to the Middle East?
1767
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,760
Or is it, is it just based on
like where you're going to be?
1768
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,200
And again, that conflict between
the leadership and the and the
1769
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:16,400
and the and the population.
It's yeah, no, it's not
1770
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,080
religious.
Like I don't think there's any
1771
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,040
part of.
It's not like the AL Aqsa Mosque
1772
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:23,440
or the Dome of the Rock.
There's no religious
1773
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:25,000
significance to the land as
such.
1774
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:30,840
It's more of a ethno conflict,
the made-up ethno conflict at
1775
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:33,280
this point, because the
Kashmiris are are fine.
1776
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:36,040
Like there, there are questions
of, you know, devolving more
1777
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:39,120
autonomy to the local government
and all of that, which which
1778
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:42,560
India does with certain states,
which, you know, lie on its
1779
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,440
periphery.
But it's there is no burning
1780
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,520
demand for secession or anything
of that sort.
1781
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,440
It's most of that, yeah.
So it's more more to do with the
1782
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:56,720
land, but.
So how does this so would this
1783
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:59,440
hypothetically be easier to
resolve if there was a little
1784
01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:02,080
bit less invested?
Like what would it take to
1785
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:03,720
resolve this or what does it
take?
1786
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:06,880
Oh, that is, that is a great
question.
1787
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:07,920
I wish.
I wish.
1788
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:10,960
I we don't we we would have all
night if we to answer that
1789
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:13,360
question right, That's what.
We need, no, I'll, I'll just add
1790
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,720
one more dimension to it.
And, and you know it.
1791
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:19,360
We're, we're Jews and Hindus.
We ask more questions than we
1792
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:21,960
answer them, right.
So I will, I will put one more
1793
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,360
thing to complicate your brain
more.
1794
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:27,800
Kashmir is not just about the
land, but it's also the
1795
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,320
resources because it's the it's
where the glaciers that feed
1796
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,880
most of the waters that irrigate
the Indian subcontinent lie.
1797
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:38,440
So you know.
The So it's very valuable and.
1798
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:42,000
It is very valuable.
So even right now when, you
1799
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,880
know, I mentioned that economic
reaction that we took of
1800
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,760
suspending the water treaty,
it's connected to that because
1801
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:51,000
we happen to be in the higher
elevations, the upper reaches,
1802
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,080
so we have control over the flow
of water before it enters
1803
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:57,600
Pakistan.
So in some ways this is also a,
1804
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,120
a water wall, a wall of
resources, which is only going
1805
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,520
to heat up with climate change
and global warming, right?
1806
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,360
So that's, you know, another
dimension to it as well besides
1807
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:09,800
all the the land.
That's no conflict, blah, blah,
1808
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:12,280
blah.
So it's it's it's hard to see
1809
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:14,120
more like.
That would be, but I feel like
1810
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:16,640
that would be the, the
underlying thing to solve,
1811
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:20,880
right.
Like if you, I mean, I, I think
1812
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,800
money speaks louder than almost
anything.
1813
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:24,760
You know, I think that that's, I
think people have come.
1814
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,000
I think we've come to learn that
throughout the years.
1815
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:31,760
But you know, I think that I
guess, I guess you think it just
1816
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:35,240
comes, you think that money or
like a deal, a fair deal would
1817
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:37,520
just kind of make the whole
thing go away.
1818
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:42,040
No, no, this is like, I think in
these parts, I feel like in in
1819
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:44,480
the old world, as we call it,
like you guys live in the new
1820
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:46,600
world.
Yeah, people have ties to the
1821
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,680
land, right?
Like it's like, you know, when
1822
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:52,040
you talk about Israel as well,
there's, there's people that
1823
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:54,640
have been living there for
years, decades, centuries maybe
1824
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:56,120
sure as well.
There's people.
1825
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:59,560
So there's no amount of money.
There's only so much money you
1826
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:01,720
can buy.
There's, there's questions of
1827
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:06,360
identity mixed into it.
There's questions of nationhood
1828
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:10,480
mixed into it that that money
simply cannot solve.
1829
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,240
Well, you could try.
I don't know.
1830
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,640
I don't know.
Let's see.
1831
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,800
Because if not, the answer is
just to keep on doing this, you
1832
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:25,560
know, for who knows how long.
There there are answers, but you
1833
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:29,400
know, it's it's also, you know,
we may do everything that we see
1834
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:30,560
it.
It has died down.
1835
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:35,240
Like if you if you saw a graph
of the insurgency or the number
1836
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:37,680
of militant attacks in Kashmir,
it has come down over the years
1837
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:40,720
to the creditors, not just this
government but previous ones as
1838
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:42,760
well.
They have been concerted efforts
1839
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,960
in that direction.
But like I said, right, the
1840
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:50,840
Pakistan Army needs a it needs
to justify its existence.
1841
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,760
It needs to justify.
Yeah, I understand.
1842
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:54,880
Right.
It's so you.
1843
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:55,680
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very.
1844
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,640
So we may do everything.
Right, right.
1845
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,120
Like we may do everything right.
The population seems to be
1846
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,680
enjoying the fruits of India's
phenomenal economic growth.
1847
01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:08,360
We were just about to see a
fantastic tourist season.
1848
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,240
But but then now you have these
external actors that have all
1849
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:13,840
these I'll intentions against
you.
1850
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:16,080
So what do you do about that?
Right?
1851
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:18,720
Like, do we balkanize Pakistan
further?
1852
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:23,680
Do we do we hit them until they
do a regime change?
1853
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,720
We don't know.
We, we, we want a lot of things.
1854
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:29,560
You ask?
We want a very firm response
1855
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:32,440
this time.
But but yeah, it's it's, it's
1856
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:34,480
going to take two to tango, as
they say.
1857
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:37,160
Yeah, yeah, it does.
It definitely does.
1858
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,800
I think I will leave you with
that.
1859
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:44,200
I think I'll let you go to
sleep, but I've I've never why
1860
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:45,840
is there 1/2 hour time
difference?
1861
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:48,560
It's like my it was what is it 8
1/2 hour to be?
1862
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,760
Different we we had to be
different, right?
1863
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,080
We were.
I guess so we it's cool.
1864
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:54,360
I never heard of not.
Be sane.
1865
01:38:56,360 --> 01:38:57,720
Sheree, I love talking to you
man.
1866
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,120
I missed you.
Talking to you and we need to
1867
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:03,680
catch up more casually at some
point like yes, where we're not
1868
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:07,160
talking about the the the end of
the war, we need to be talking
1869
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,120
about your kids and your wife
and.
1870
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,360
And yes, that's right.
And Disney.
1871
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:13,680
Of course, of course, of course,
of course.
1872
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:15,160
Trey, I love you.
Thank you so much for doing
1873
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:15,680
this.
Love you.
1874
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,280
And we'll talk soon, and we'll
do this again, I hope.
1875
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:19,960
OK.
Absolutely.
1876
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:21,320
Bye bye all.
Right, Bye everyone.
1877
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:21,760
Good night.
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,040
Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.
2
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,200
And we're live.
Shrey, welcome back.
3
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,760
I this is, I say welcome back.
I don't mean it's the podcast
4
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,080
because I'm unfortunately this
is your first time, although I'm
5
00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,560
so happy that you're the 100th
episode because I was waiting
6
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,080
for.
I wanted a really great guest
7
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,400
for 100th episode.
And you and I, and I think I was
8
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,320
was I in the podcast that you
did a couple of years ago on the
9
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,400
don't worry about it one.
I was.
10
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,600
I was, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I was.
11
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,920
I was so.
So we haven't done a podcast.
12
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,920
Yeah, we haven't.
It's been it's this I'm, I'm sad
13
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,320
that it took me this long to be
on on your podcast, but now that
14
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,520
I'm here, I'm hoping that this
this is worth it.
15
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,400
Oh, it's.
Going to be awesome.
16
00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,120
I'm so excited.
So, so why don't you start by
17
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,120
telling, by telling us a little
bit about, you know, who you
18
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,560
are, where you where, where
you're from, where you live, and
19
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,560
we'll dive into a dive into
things from there.
20
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,840
Awesome.
All right, So I am Sri.
21
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,640
I am A, I live in India right
now, but I used to live, I study
22
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,520
and live in the United States
where that's where I met Fe or F
23
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,880
Prime as I like to call him.
That's right.
24
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,360
What I live in Bombay right now.
That's where I'm where I'm
25
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,440
originally from and I did
engineering at Rutgers and then
26
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,960
went on to work for consulting
companies like Deloitte and now
27
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:35,080
I do consulting for like the
Pharmaceutical industry with Sip
28
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,720
Line India.
Oh, you do That's.
29
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,280
So you started, you got back,
you're still in consulting.
30
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,120
I am.
I am, for better or worse than
31
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,480
in consulting.
Do you, do you have to travel?
32
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,600
Do you travel the same rate that
you did in America?
33
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,520
No, it's, it's again, I don't
know if this is a net positive
34
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,560
or negative because I, I don't
have a family like you yet, but
35
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,360
I don't travel anymore.
Like it went from 100 to 0 real
36
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,360
quick.
I think they quick, I think
37
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,520
companies wised up.
They realized that we were not
38
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,880
really needed after the pandemic
era to be in person in a lot of
39
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,960
these client offsite meetings
and that they could save a lot
40
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,520
of money flying us down and
feeding us expensive food.
41
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,720
So unfortunately, yeah, nobody
pays for you to travel anymore.
42
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,320
It's.
All.
43
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,640
It's so sad, isn't it?
It is like it feels like my
44
00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:26,240
wings have been clipped.
They have been because you, you
45
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,560
were travelling everywhere,
right?
46
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,720
I mean, it was when we met with
Seattle where you, just you, you
47
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,960
work, you'd be consulting
wherever you just hop on a plane
48
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,000
and just get to.
Everyone and you know, that was
49
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,600
that was a time people thought I
worked as a, as a, as a steward
50
00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:40,920
or a pilot.
They would be like.
51
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,160
No way.
Like twice a week, like surely
52
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,560
or you're, you're working with
United or JetBlue.
53
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,240
But I was like, Oh no.
You should do that, by the way.
54
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,720
I feel like that be fun.
I've I've spoken to a couple.
55
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,000
I have a couple of friends that
have been that worked on
56
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,800
airlines and even if it was just
for a year or two, they've
57
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,880
absolutely loved it.
I have considered it.
58
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,920
I have.
But you know what?
59
00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:05,560
I think I I I have something
called congenital tremors, which
60
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,600
is like these tremors that
happen in my hand and I have no
61
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,240
control over it.
It's nothing really.
62
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,280
But I feel like, yeah, yeah, I
got it from my dad and my
63
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,080
granddad.
But what that means is that I
64
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,480
make a terrible steward.
Imagine I am out to give you
65
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:24,200
your, you know, kosher meal or
pour you a glass of wine and I
66
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,440
pour it all over you over so
myself.
67
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,400
Yeah, that was that.
You know, I'd be like a hot spot
68
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,440
for litigations and a lot of.
Well, if it makes you feel
69
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,000
better, if it makes you feel
better since the last time you
70
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,000
wait.
Have you been to the states
71
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,440
since since 21?
No, I haven't.
72
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,200
Like it's it.
I so travelling customer service
73
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,640
here has gone to shit, so I
think that even if you did spill
74
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,360
over over anyone, you'd probably
still be one of the better, one
75
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,640
of the better service people, I
would imagine.
76
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:57,920
Yeah.
It's a shame.
77
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:03,200
Mm Hmm.
So wait, how long have you been
78
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,480
working for this pharmaceutical
company?
79
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,000
When you do consulting, what do
you do for?
80
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,080
Them so I contrary to what I
used to do for Deloitte, which
81
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,720
was more external clients, this
is more internal.
82
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,279
So I, I've been with their IT
vertical as a, as what they call
83
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,640
business partner and I'm
essentially responsible for, for
84
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,880
streamlining and keeping the
ball rolling on a lot of their
85
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,080
projects within that department.
So it could be anything from an
86
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,960
integration with called, you
know, of a certain software, it
87
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,120
could be managing databases, it
could be automating certain
88
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,440
tasks.
These are certain projects that
89
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,920
come up and all internally
because you know, we're we're
90
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,000
always.
Trying to Are you doing the
91
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,520
building yourself or you just
no, no, no.
92
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,320
I, I, I'm, I get involved from
more of like a project
93
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,840
management standpoint, SO or PMO
as they call it, and I'm more
94
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:58,120
responsible for liaisoning
between the different parties
95
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,800
and making sure that everyone's
talking to everyone and we're
96
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,200
getting things done.
So it's more management.
97
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,560
Type.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, more
98
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,360
management type.
Awesome.
99
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,320
Awesome, awesome, so cool.
So I wanted to talk to you today
100
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,560
because I want to talk to you a
lot of it, a lot of things.
101
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,000
But one of the things I wanted
to talk to you about is I was
102
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talking to my wife.
We have to meet a couple of.
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Absolutely.
A couple of weeks ago, I was so
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excited for you to come hang out
again.
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We always have so much fun
together.
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But I wanted to, but I was
talking to her and I was it
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actually started with AI.
Did AI did an interview with a
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doctor this past week.
And she before she went to Med
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school, went to India for a year
and and she learned about
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meditation.
She learned about Buddhism, she
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learned about yoga.
She learned about dietary health
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and food health.
And and then when she said, she
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said that when she went to Med
school, she kind of went with a
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little bit more of a broad
picture than most people would,
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you know, typically have.
And when and while while we're
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talking, I realized that I feel
like America in our in our
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exciting, excited, youthful,
perpetual state of chaos, you
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know, kind of doesn't pay so
much attention to other older,
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richer and, you know, more
established cultures and parts
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of the world, including India,
you know, and that's when I
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realized I knew nothing about
your whole part of the world.
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So I want so, you know, then the
war kicked off and I don't know
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anything about that.
So I wanted to, I wanted to talk
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to you a little bit about, about
first of all, you know,
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day-to-day, you know, the
differences between day-to-day
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life and Indian America and
maybe a little bit about the
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political scenario and the war
and what's going on, the
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tensions.
And if all that stuff sounds
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fun, there's some of the history
about Buddhism a little bit.
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So where do you want to start?
I feel like there's so many
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great topics to pick up from.
I let's, let's start actually
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from what you know, your friend
was talking about, because I
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think that that we can, you
know, segue from there, because
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I think there's a lot of
interesting points you brought
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up there with her saying that
just being from, from India and
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being exposed to holistic
medicine here.
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It if I'm if I got it correctly,
it informed a lot of her
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approach towards medicine once
she got into Med school in the
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States, right?
Yeah.
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Well, one thing that we can, one
thing that we both concluded is
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that there's a difference
between health and medicine, you
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know, and someone could be a
healthy person and not receive
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medicine and someone could
receive medicine and not
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necessarily be a healthy person,
you know?
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And so she said that she felt
she learned more about health
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and life and longevity in India.
And then the Med school was more
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about the medicine aspect.
That's that's it.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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That's an interesting
observation because, you know,
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that's something that we think
that I think about a lot these
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days and maybe not so much from
a cultural standpoint, but you
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know, when you went there was
the Olympics that happened
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recently.
I don't know if it's as popular
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in the US as it is out here.
But if some, if there's
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something that you notice is
that a lot of the bodies that
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you see in front of you, whether
it's in swimming or it's in
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weightlifting or table tennis,
they're very differently shaped.
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And these, well, you know, we're
talking of pro athletes here,
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people representing their
country at the highest level.
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And it made me think that, you
know, we have really brought
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down health to looking a certain
way to to an aesthetic standard
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when health is so much more than
that.
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Because here I'm looking at
people who are pro athletes, who
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are sportsmen, who I'm sure are
incredibly healthy, but they
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don't fit that mole that we, you
know, have kind of begin, begun
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to associate with being healthy
or being fit in the conventional
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sense.
You know, when you think about
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it now, it's like being ripped
and muscular or so like you
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quality composition.
I don't.
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I don't know about that but but.
You know what I'm saying?
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We all know it.
You know what I'm saying, right?
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Like we, we've, it's, it's been,
it's been distorted to an
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aesthetic standard and where,
where health is is far more than
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that.
And it's not just superficial,
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right, Right.
It's, it's not just superficial
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and it's, it's interesting to
know there are a lot of these
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people that look a certain way,
often die 30 or 40 from a heart
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attack because you know, they've
internally they're, they're a
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mess.
Whereas you know, the, the
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people with a little bit of a
pot belly and you know who, who
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look like they enjoy life.
At the same time, a lot of them
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go on to live to like 90 and
100.
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So it's there's, there's
something to be said about how,
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you know, health is more than
what we make of it.
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That's a great point.
That's a great point is that is
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that idea more heavily
emphasized in India than it is
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in America?
Because I know in America it's
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obviously all about kind of the
superficial looks, which is why
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I think like Ozempic has taken
off those type of drugs has kind
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of taken off because everyone
could feel like they look
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phenomenal without having to put
the effort in.
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But I, I, I feel like everything
in life kind of has a category
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of either being the equivalent
of junk food or the equivalent
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of healthy food.
And you can get the junk food if
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you want and you could be full
off that, but it's not really
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what's good for you in the long
term.
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And I feel like there's always
short term things and long term
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things that you can do.
And, and I feel like, you know,
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like generally speaking, you
know, living a healthier
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lifestyle would be the
equivalent of healthy food,
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while just opting to look good
with Ozempic or one of those
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shots or whatever would, would
be a little bit equivalent of at
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least unless, unless you're
trying to use it to balance out
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and, and, and, and kick start
your own healthy lifestyle.
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You know, a lot of people that
are overweight, you know, can't,
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can't even start working out.
And so they need to lose a
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couple of pounds before they
even start exercising.
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Right, right.
No, absolutely.
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I think, I think Ozempic is one
of those things that it's it, it
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depends on how you wield it,
right.
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Like if, if there is something
genetic about your, your body
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mass problems, like if you if
you're diabetic or if there's
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something that's, you know,
outside of the control of
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conventional things that you can
do to medicine.
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Yeah, like I think I think there
is there is benefit to it.
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But now I think there's also
this idea percolating in
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people's minds where it's it's a
quick fix solution to to being
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all weight like it's just you
stab yourself every what once?
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A week, a month, and.
Something like that, yeah.
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And, and you, you, you know,
you, you lose, lose the weight.
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But as research is coming out,
people say that, you know,
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there's a lot of side effects we
still don't know about.
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And it comes back to this idea
that there are no free lunches,
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right?
You got to put in the work.
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You have to, you know, do
something to to get something
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and I think we will be seeing
more of that as this miracle
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drug, as they call it.
Yeah, yeah.
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Is it as big in India as it is
in America?
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Not yet, not yet.
So India is an interesting
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problem, and I think this comes
down to like cultural things.
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We are a population that is
predisposed to hypertension and
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diabetes because of successive
famines that were orchestrated
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by the British Empire.
That's something I learned very
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recently as well.
So can you.
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Explain that to me a little bit.
Can you give me some more detail
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about that?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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So if you if you notice that
there, there tends to be a very
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skinny fat mole that a lot of
South Asians tend to fall in,
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00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,160
it's not exactly obese, but it's
not exactly skinny.
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00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,720
You know, there's, you know,
skinny arms.
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00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,000
But that weight, you know, you
tend to put on more weight
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around your waist and hips and
midriff.
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And I think a lot of research
has been done into this.
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And while there are certain
lifestyle factors to it, there's
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also negative component to it
that goes back to the British
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induced famines.
So when the the British
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colonized India.
What year was that?
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It was.
So it started sometime in the
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1800s and you know, by, I think
by the 1830s they had most of
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the Indian subcontinent under
their control.
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And at that, and you know it, it
started as a company.
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It was the East India Company
before it transitioned to the
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British Parliament.
And whether it was the East
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India Company or the British
Parliament, there was always a,
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a very extractionary approach to
their rule in India, the
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colonial rule in India.
So the food that was produced
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here, the raw materials produced
here, the the wells produced
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here, the textiles produced
here, a lot of that was just
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taken and sold in markets in the
West and elsewhere.
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So that was that was that was
kind of the nature of colonial
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rule.
So these that's.
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Crazy.
Yeah, Yeah, it was it was an
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incredibly extractionary
process.
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I mean, people today put the
total loss to the Indian economy
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if, you know, you had to compare
it in relative terms to billions
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of dollars and, you know, we're
still in a way recovering from
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it.
When you think of India as the
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third world or, you know, why
is, why is India like that or
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why is Pakistan like that?
It's it's essentially a lot of
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it is baggage from that era.
But coming back to the coming
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back to the famines and the
genetic component of, you know,
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00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,920
our Physiology, these famines
essentially caused us to adapt
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because that's that's the nature
of the human.
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It's the beauty and the curse of
biology that we will adapt no
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matter what.
So when when you don't have a
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00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,520
lot of food and you have to make
do it little, the body started
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00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,120
to naturally store more fat in
certain places as a way to as a
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00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,600
way to, yeah, overcome that.
So that is how this board, this
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00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,680
Physiology started becoming a
thing in the South Asian
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00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,320
population.
And, and, and that's why now
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00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,840
when researchers talk about
obesity in the South Asian
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00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,480
context, they, it's not just
about Ogo and Rananda Chadmur
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00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,840
more or, you know, eat less.
It's also looking at this
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genetic component that has
developed over so many
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centuries, decades.
Wow.
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00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,600
So, so is there, what do you,
how do you change that?
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00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,880
Is it just a slow progress?
Like it just takes a lot of time
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00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,440
to undo it?
Likely likely what it it, it's
289
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,440
taken.
So it's, it's, it's a product of
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so many centuries.
I mean, not so many, but like at
291
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,520
least 2 centuries and a little
more than that.
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00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,600
Because that's how approximately
how long the British rule
293
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lasted.
And even even into the first
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year, decades of India's
independence, food was a
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00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:38,480
commodity that was often at the
risk of scarcity and not it it's
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not always due to a lack of
production or crop vitality.
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00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,280
It's sometimes, you know,
distribution issues, supply
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00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,600
chain issues, the lack of
warehouses, etcetera.
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So I think until something
called the green revolution,
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which happened in the 1960s in
II was a food scarce country.
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It was after the Green
Revolution that we became a food
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surplus bread basket nation.
And now, now we have enough food
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to, you know, send out to other
countries that have scarcity.
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00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,200
But yeah, the the the genetic
imprint was that done was.
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00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,240
That done through
industrialization or is that
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done just by the sheer number of
people there and just worked
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00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,520
working in farmers and stuff
like that?
308
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,280
The Green Revolution.
Yeah, the Green Revolution.
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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,360
It it was, it was actually done
through American help.
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So that was an American company
and researchers that got
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together and they created these
hybrid high yield varieties of
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rice and wheat which was then
brought to India.
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So these high yield varieties
were more resistant to
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00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,040
pesticides and you know, they
use more chemical fertilizers to
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00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,960
improve output.
And that is what really helped
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00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,040
take India from being a food
scarce nation to a food surplus
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00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,320
nation.
I see.
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00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,280
And is the, so you know, what a
lot of people talk about these
319
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,960
days, especially with RFK and
everything like that is the
320
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,400
whole Make America healthy
thing.
321
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,800
And that we noticed that all the
stuff that we put in our food
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00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,360
has been poisoning us for, you
know, ever.
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00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,000
Did you did you get that from
with America's support?
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00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,280
Was, was, was a lot of that kind
of it does.
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I know, for example, I'm sorry,
just to kind of clarify the
326
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,160
point, when my wife and I went
on our honeymoon to Greece, we
327
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,280
ate bread everywhere all the
time, you know, and we didn't
328
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,480
and we felt great.
We didn't feel bloated.
329
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,359
We didn't feel disgusting.
You know, if I eat a hamburger
330
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,200
bun in America and this from the
supermarket, I feel like a piece
331
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,320
of crap.
You know, I feel, I feel like it
332
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,960
sits in my stomach forever.
Is India's food cleaner than or
333
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,840
is it also impacted by the
American help in the revolution,
334
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,280
the Green Revolution?
So that's an interesting, you
335
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,200
know, point that you bring up
because I think a lot of
336
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,840
American travelers seem to echo
that sentiment that when they go
337
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,160
to Italy, they go to Florence
and they eat the pizza there,
338
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,440
suddenly there's no gluten
intolerance.
339
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,760
Suddenly, you know, like, yeah.
Isn't it crazy?
340
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080
It is crazy.
And I think people have kind of
341
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,080
chopped it down to the way food
is grown.
342
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,760
So, you know, I, I do believe
RFK, I mean, not agree with him
343
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,120
on a lot of things, but I do
think he has somewhat of a point
344
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,160
here that there is an
overabundance of chemical
345
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,720
fertilizers and genetically
modified variants of crops that,
346
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,960
yeah, we, we don't fully
understand the effects of that
347
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,400
are that are, I don't want to
use the word, but but yeah,
348
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,440
poisoning the, the food system,
the food, the food and it and
349
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,160
it, and, and you're right that
that has been a criticism of the
350
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:26,960
green revolution in India as
well.
351
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,760
And, you know, there that there
are instances of farmers in the
352
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,440
areas where, so the Punjab,
you've probably heard of that
353
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,880
area.
It's in northern India.
354
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,840
It's OK.
It's a very, it's a very
355
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,120
agrarian part, which is where
the green revolution was
356
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,000
particularly centered.
A lot of the farmers that, you
357
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,840
know, worked on these, they
started developing cancers
358
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,920
because and, and a lot of
genetic defects because of their
359
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,240
exposure to artificial
fertilizers and chemical
360
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,640
pesticides.
So, you know, if if that's what
361
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,440
the people drawing the food for
you are, you know, suffering
362
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,520
from, there is something to be
said about how it percolates
363
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,800
into the the food chain as well.
But I think in India, there's
364
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,800
also there's this deals do it.
There's you know, you can find
365
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,760
organic raw stuff that is drawn
and devoid of a lot of these
366
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,520
things.
So as long as you can afford it.
367
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,680
And I think this is.
Is it expensive?
368
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,560
Is it like prohibitively
expensive or it's it's
369
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760
reasonable?
It's it's relatively reasonable.
370
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,120
It's relatively reasonable.
Like I, I wouldn't say it's as
371
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,640
it's like if you had to go to
Whole Foods, Yeah, I think that
372
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,360
would that would work out to be
a lot more expensive.
373
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,400
Whereas in India it's a little
more mainstream, OK.
374
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,960
Cool, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha
gotcha.
375
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,000
So what so tell me so so you
went so you spent a lot you
376
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,720
spent a big chunk of your life
in America, right and amazing.
377
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,960
You know, and, and from what I,
from what I understand, it was
378
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,680
you you not only did you have a
great time, but you're also.
379
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,280
I'm going to say this for you.
You were very successful in
380
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,480
your, in your endeavors, right?
In terms of in terms of
381
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,200
community, in terms of friends,
in terms of education and work.
382
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,800
You kind of you kind of you, you
certainly thrived in, in all
383
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,240
aspects.
I know that, you know, I mean,
384
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,320
think, think about all the times
that we had together and think
385
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,480
about the mutual friends we had
and everything we had, you know,
386
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,760
and everything that you've, that
you've gone through it.
387
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,520
What's what are some of the
biggest cultural differences
388
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,160
between the Americans and the
Indians that you've observed
389
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,320
while you're while you're
spending time in America?
390
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,480
Some of the biggest cultural
differences, OK.
391
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,360
Or similarities or both.
Or similarities.
392
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,280
So I think, I think that we're
both very, very capitalist in
393
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,320
some ways.
You know, like we we're both
394
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,840
very, you know, all about very
enterprising.
395
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,360
We're very, let's find a
solution to this.
396
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,880
There's definitely an aspect of
that it expresses, it finds
397
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,880
expression in slightly different
ways, but I think we're both
398
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,800
very enterprising people that
way.
399
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,680
What are some other
similarities?
400
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,080
I think what are some Let's talk
about differences.
401
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,680
Yeah, we don't like families,
their relationships and stuff
402
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,080
like that.
I know that in America people
403
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,160
don't.
People kind of look at
404
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,000
relationships like you're kind
of supposed to wait off to have,
405
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,920
you know, get married and have
kids till like you're in your
406
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,480
30s at this point.
Is that the?
407
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,120
Is that the case in India?
Not really, but it depends on
408
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,640
who you're asking.
So like for me, for the, for
409
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,480
instance, the, the kind of
socioeconomic circles that I
410
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,560
inhabit, we, we, we don't really
care about it.
411
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,280
Like if my parents never ask me
about marriage, they really a
412
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,320
lot of my most of my friends are
unmarried.
413
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,280
The ones that are married don't
plan to have kids or, or, you
414
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,160
know, it's, it's no longer and
it's not no longer the burning
415
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,520
issue that it used to be
previously.
416
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,000
Of course, of course, I will
preface this by saying that
417
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,240
we're a small minority of people
that mostly belong to like the,
418
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:06,320
the, the metropolitan cities,
the, the, the quote UN quote
419
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,480
elite circles.
So this is not, this is not
420
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,400
something that you know, you
will, you will see across the
421
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,400
length and breadth of India.
But but yes, there is if you go
422
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,480
to the urban centers, if you go
to cities in India, you'll see
423
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,840
that kids here, the youth here
are not very dissimilar to
424
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,280
American youth in that sense.
Like, you know, people are
425
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,840
willing to put off marriage.
They're willing.
426
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:32,880
There's a greater interest in
self actualization in finding
427
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,440
your path and things that you
know you would you would see
428
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,320
resonate among American youth as
well.
429
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,120
So, so there, there, there's
definitely a lot of overlaps
430
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,240
there that.
So, so I think it's so from what
431
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,640
I observed in America,
especially from, you know, my
432
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,520
parents and grandparents era, a
lot of it, I think a lot of
433
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,160
today's, you know, desire for
self actualization, as you put
434
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,080
it, typically comes from a
feeling of being like suppressed
435
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480
as an individual while they were
growing up.
436
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,040
You know, like there wasn't a
lot of emphasis on, hey, who are
437
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,320
you?
What's your passion?
438
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,480
How do you want to live your
life?
439
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,320
It was more like, here's your
responsibility.
440
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,160
You're supposed to have a wife,
you're supposed to have a kid,
441
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,960
you're supposed to get a little
house and you're supposed to
442
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,040
work hard.
And and then before you before
443
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,720
you blink, you're 60.
And then a lot of people
444
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,960
rejected that notion and said,
well, yeah, what about what
445
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,400
about my life?
You know, I only got one of
446
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,160
these.
So is that, you know that that's
447
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,600
from my, from what I see, that's
the American kind of perspective
448
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:34,920
is that is that, is that
similar?
449
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,280
So again, yeah, I wouldn't say
it is something that the vast
450
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,920
majority of Indians would
resonate with.
451
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,080
I think there is a certain.
But in the big cities, you know,
452
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,440
yeah, it's more of like the like
the upper crust of certain big
453
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,880
cities, right, Like Delhi and
Bombay, that Delhi is the
454
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,360
capital city.
Bombay is think of Bombay as a
455
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,720
cross between LA and New York.
It's like the entertainment and
456
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,600
the financial capital of the
country.
457
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,520
So, yeah, so like in our cities
or Bangalore, which is like our
458
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:11,440
Silicon Valley, there is there
is, you know, a very significant
459
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,520
minority of people who who do
subscribe to this American view
460
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,760
of, you know, self actualization
and like you said, finding your
461
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,320
path and and but is that.
Building on like the pain is
462
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,960
that building, the pain of being
told that they don't have like
463
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,640
almost a right to be themselves,
or is that just because, hey,
464
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,840
let's just copy?
Americans or.
465
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Like you want to live a better
life?
466
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,960
It's all economic.
So I might be quoting this
467
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,240
completely wrong.
Like if, if for you and your
468
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,920
listeners, please feel free to
like chat, you do this later.
469
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,200
But there's a cope that goes
something along the lines of,
470
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,000
you know, people work as blue
collar workers so that their
471
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,280
children can work as white
collar workers so that their
472
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,120
children can work as poets and
artists.
473
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,880
So it's like, you know, people
often times these choices are
474
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,960
not really choices.
They're they are kind of imposed
475
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,600
on you because that's, that's
just the circumstances that you
476
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,120
grew up in.
You have to do certain things,
477
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:16,440
you have to take on certain
responsibilities because you had
478
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,920
no other option.
But tomorrow, like for instance,
479
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,400
and, and, and we see this across
the board as well, right?
480
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,560
Like tomorrow, the, the, the
sons of a very successful
481
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,440
billionaire are not likely to
also want to be to hustle as
482
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240
much because the the fire in the
belly is gone by then, right,
483
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Because you've grown up, you
have grown up in comfort, you've
484
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,680
grown up in luxury.
You and and that's a good thing.
485
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,400
That's the point of human
evolution.
486
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,320
Like some people be more.
I know there's that.
487
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,760
There are people that say, Oh,
no, you, you, you got to hustle
488
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,200
as well.
You got to, you know, go through
489
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,200
the same rights of passage.
But I don't I disagree.
490
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,120
I'm saying that's the point to
to for every successful
491
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,360
generation to be more
comfortable than the previous,
492
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,200
to have choices that I wasn't
able to make or my and you know,
493
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,640
fathers and forefathers weren't
able to.
494
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,840
So I think that's where it comes
from.
495
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,640
The self actualization is just a
natural combination of growing
496
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,280
up in more comfort in being
afforded more choice.
497
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:13,560
Yeah.
And more free.
498
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,880
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
499
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,280
It's a very interesting point,
right.
500
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,440
I think it's I think it's
interesting because I think that
501
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,600
these days, the way that you
kind of see people manifesting
502
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,640
themselves or like starting
their own businesses.
503
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,720
They're not starting like a mom
and pop supermarket, you know,
504
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,200
like they want to start up one
day and hang on to their kids.
505
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,640
They're starting, they want to
be a podcaster.
506
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720
They want to be, you know,
social media guy.
507
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,720
They want to be, you know, they
want to be an entertainer, an
508
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,800
actor or singer, you know, and I
think it's good by the way, I
509
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,920
think I think it's really
beautiful.
510
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,640
I actually think that we
probably need that kind of the
511
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,360
way you describe like the
burning in your belly.
512
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,880
You I think that we need to
have, I think that it's a
513
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,640
company.
I think you have to balance in
514
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400
order to be in order to really
accomplish anything great.
515
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,560
You need to have that fire in
your belly.
516
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,160
It's just depends on which
direction you want to, you want
517
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,120
to handle it.
And then there's a lot less
518
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,120
urgency when you don't feel like
your next meal is on the line as
519
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,680
opposed to like, oh, let me just
do this podcast or not, you
520
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,200
know, and OK, fine.
So this week I only have two
521
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,760
episodes instead of three, but
my family is still eating, you
522
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,840
know, like, yeah.
So you it becomes a lot easier
523
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,480
to justify and rationalize and
you might not not even
524
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,920
necessarily have the same kind
of work ethic because you have
525
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,240
the comfort of knowing that you
know that not everything will be
526
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,000
fine for when you do.
Yeah, exactly.
527
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:29,840
Your head.
Right.
528
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,880
And you know, this is
interesting because I noticed
529
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,040
this even, you know, just to
give you a personal example, in,
530
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,960
in my life, like in in the USI
was on an H1B visa and I or, you
531
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,080
know, like an OPT visa, which is
kind of like a temporary work
532
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,400
visa students are able to sign
up for.
533
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,480
And I knew that I was, you know,
I had bills to pay.
534
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,120
I had, I, I had to pay rent in
Manhattan.
535
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,240
I had to put food on the table.
I needed to pay my, you know,
536
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,760
con Ed like party bills and
what.
537
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,880
Yeah, absolutely.
Like, and, and, you know, going
538
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,400
out at night, like, it was all a
lot to think about.
539
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,360
But.
And so that makes you more
540
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,640
cautious about how you tread in
the workplace.
541
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Like you, you're more likely to,
you know, if if your boss wants
542
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080
you to work till 1:00 AM all
five days, you will do it
543
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,480
because, you know, you may
grumble a little bit, but you do
544
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,640
it and you have more of an
impetus to do those things.
545
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,320
But now I realize in India, like
I'm a little more outspoken or,
546
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,320
you know, I'm, I'm more vocal
about establishing and
547
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,880
maintaining my boundaries.
I would be like, OK, it is 7:00
548
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,400
PM.
This is not, you know, a burning
549
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,760
issue.
It's not something that needs
550
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,520
resolution.
Now.
551
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,440
We can do this tomorrow.
So these are.
552
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680
All things I love that.
Yeah, yeah, these aren't but but
553
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,280
I also recognize that comes from
a place of privilege, right?
554
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Like that I, and over here, I
know I have a roof over my head.
555
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240
I, I stay with my family.
I, you know, there, there's
556
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,040
food.
Like I know I can, I can
557
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,240
survive.
So I, I'm able to make those
558
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,360
boundaries.
But I know, so I, I think it
559
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,680
comes down to that again, like
how, how much privilege you have
560
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,400
to, to, to rock the boat, so to
speak.
561
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's really,
yeah.
562
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,600
It's really interesting.
I, I, I don't think that it's
563
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,840
inherently a bad thing.
I think that the next challenge
564
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,640
that we're going to have as like
as a species as I go, as, as a
565
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,800
world, as, as, as humans, the
next challenge we're going to
566
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,440
have is that we're going to have
so much abundance and, you know,
567
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,120
and comfort and well, and
hopefully I listen, I hope, I
568
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,000
hope for everyone, right that,
that, that the question really
569
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,840
will become how, how much, how
disciplined are the individuals
570
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,000
now that they are comfortable to
put their all into something
571
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,280
else?
And that's going to be the next
572
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,520
challenge.
You know, the next challenge is
573
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320
if you don't have to go to work
tomorrow and you don't have to,
574
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,080
you know, answer that e-mail for
work because it could be
575
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640
responded to tomorrow, then then
what are you doing with today?
576
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Are you, you know, and, and
unfortunately, I think that, you
577
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,760
know, and by the way, I'm not
saying this because I'm anti
578
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,720
this.
I'm I'm really, I'm really, you
579
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,120
know, but like, for example, you
see more Americans smoking a lot
580
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,960
more weed now than which I know
that you are almost inherently.
581
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,120
What do you call it?
Like you can, from what I
582
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,960
remember, you weren't able to,
yeah, you could just consume and
583
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,800
not able to get Yeah, it just
didn't work for.
584
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,720
You, yeah, I, I had to, I
remember going with Ari the next
585
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,640
day because I was, I was like, I
need to feel this.
586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,160
So we went and got went to a
dispensary and got like their
587
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,880
highest dose edible.
And I remember for 45 minutes it
588
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,560
still hadn't hit me.
And I was like, you know, well,
589
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,680
maybe, maybe I'm just immune to
this.
590
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,000
Thing.
Yeah, yeah.
591
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,800
Yeah, yeah, so, so.
I think the people, but the
592
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280
people, the people that aren't
immune to it are kind of just
593
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,080
doing it as almost like, well, I
don't know what else to do now.
594
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,400
So let me just do this.
You know, I think that a lot of
595
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,320
a lot of people in America, as
weed has become a lot more
596
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,360
accessible and a lot more, you
know, legalized in more states.
597
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,760
I think that we're actually kind
of just like sedating ourselves
598
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160
by just saying, well, I did
enough today and I'm
599
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,880
comfortable.
So let me just, you know, sit at
600
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,440
home and take an edible or smoke
a Jay and then I'll be fine.
601
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,680
But that doesn't typically
translate into, you know, that
602
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,200
again, that but that burning
belly in your in your stomach
603
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,200
sometimes, you know, for some
people, they could manage it.
604
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:26,120
But I think that by and large,
we have to figure out a way to
605
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640
kind of incentivize and motivate
people to to be their best, not
606
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,600
because, you know, dinners on
the line, but because it's their
607
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,200
own lives.
And you only have one of it.
608
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,480
And like, you should treat your
own life seriously because
609
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,280
that's your life, you know?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
610
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,560
Want to tell me a little bit
about?
611
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Buddhism, Buddhism.
So I don't know a whole lot
612
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,400
about Buddhism.
I will be be very honest with
613
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,960
you.
I can speak to you more about
614
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Hinduism.
Oh, yes, because I'm sorry.
615
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,720
I I, I wait.
I don't know the difference
616
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,440
between them.
I'm so ignorant.
617
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,120
No, I apologize.
You know, in some parts of
618
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,760
India, they're, they're, they're
interchangeable.
619
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,080
And you know that this is an
interesting way to talk about
620
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,560
them as well, because in, in
India, the, the way Indic
621
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,200
religions are, the the lines are
blurred.
622
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,520
You know, like if you go to
Nepal, for instance, where one
623
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,240
stops being Hindu, where someone
starts being Buddhist is, is
624
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,200
very blurry because, you know,
in yeah, yeah.
625
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,600
Like in a person in Nepal.
And this is not just Nepal.
626
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,480
It's, it's in other parts of
India as well.
627
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,800
In parts of Sri Lanka too.
You could be worshipping Hindu
628
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,280
gods, but you can also worship
Buddha.
629
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,800
And you may have elements of
Buddhism in your life and you
630
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,360
may mix and match them with
elements of Hinduism.
631
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920
This is, it's, it's the South
and even Southeast Asia with
632
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,240
Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia,
it's very common for there to be
633
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,760
a little mishmash if these two
religions because Buddhism
634
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,640
sprung out of Hinduism.
It was almost a reaction to
635
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:06,800
early Vedic Hinduism and it was
it was kind of like a reformist
636
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,280
creed at that time.
And would it?
637
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Be fair to compare it to
Christianity and Judaism?
638
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,120
Or is that is that a bad
comparison?
639
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,080
It's it's.
It could be.
640
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,240
OK.
That's a very.
641
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Polite way of saying it.
And no, no, no, because I mean
642
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,960
it, it really depends.
There's no right or wrong
643
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,360
answers here.
There's, there's it, you know,
644
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,200
like it could be one way because
the Christianity did come out as
645
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,480
an offshoot of Islam.
Sorry of, of Judaism I spoke or
646
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,160
Judaism.
So it's, it's in that sense,
647
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,400
yes, Buddhism did emerge as an
offshoot of Hinduism, but yeah,
648
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,760
for very different motivations.
And but going back to to our
649
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,080
original point, it's it's how we
talk about religion here can be
650
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160
very different from how you talk
about it in the West or, you
651
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,360
know, in other parts of the
world where Abrahamic religions
652
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,880
are more neater boundaries.
And like, you know, a Jew is
653
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,960
very different from a Christian
and, you know, you will do a lot
654
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,760
of things very differently and
you're kind of cognizant at
655
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,679
that.
But in South and Southeast Asia,
656
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:11,520
those lines can be very blurred,
very blur.
657
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,560
It's interesting you talk.
So what's the foundation of
658
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,199
Hinduism?
What's the what are the
659
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,199
foundational ideas that you
have?
660
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,360
If you were to summarize to
someone like myself who knows
661
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,400
nothing, right?
And you, Yeah, how do you?
662
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,520
How would you?
Yeah, the so the main
663
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,800
foundational text or I can't
even say text of the Hindus
664
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,239
because it's an oral
transmission much like the Torah
665
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,040
was for for centuries is the
Veda.
666
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,520
So the Vedas were like the
Torah.
667
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,719
They were these series of hymns
that were divinely revealed,
668
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:47,719
much like the Ark of the
Covenant, 2 sages in like 2003
669
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:53,159
thousand BCE.
And they transmitted it through
670
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,040
an oral tradition for several
thousand years before they were
671
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,760
actually put down.
They formed the corpus of
672
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Hindus, Hinduism's spiritual
core.
673
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520
So they, and then everything
after that is like an
674
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,360
interpretation of it.
So they're they what?
675
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Every other strand of it has a
different interpretation of the
676
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,320
way it does and that and those
are the different schools of
677
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,080
thoughts that have emerged.
Cool, gotcha.
678
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,440
So there's a basic, so there's a
basic oral tradition.
679
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,960
As time goes on, there's
different understandings as to
680
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,520
what the tradition, you know,
how that, how that manifests and
681
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,920
how people understand it.
And then and then different
682
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,920
sects break off because so is so
is Buddhism a an offshoot or a
683
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,800
sect of Hinduism like that in
that sense?
684
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,080
So Buddhism, it rejected the
Vedas.
685
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,160
They had rejected the authority
of the Vedas and that's why it
686
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,920
was it was so revolutionary
groundbreaking at that time
687
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,080
because they said we don't
believe in this and we're our
688
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,600
own thing.
But a lot of concepts there is
689
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,960
there are all apps like
reincarnation, karma, the.
690
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,000
So what are those ideas?
What's what's what's Hinduism's
691
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,040
relationship with with afterlife
or recreation?
692
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,200
What do we believe about the
soul?
693
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,280
What do you believe about lives
and afterlife or previous lives?
694
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,000
What do we say?
Right, so reincarnate.
695
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,520
So Hinduism always is, let me
preface it by saying, a very
696
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,120
optimistic religion.
Even our villains.
697
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520
Even the worst person that you
can think of, Effie, will end up
698
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,160
in a good place eventually.
It's just that he will take more
699
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,880
lives to get there.
So every birth that you take is
700
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,720
a way for you to atone for the
sins of your previous birth and
701
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,800
to go closer to a state of the
Buddhists call it nothingness,
702
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,560
the Hindus call it Satchitanand,
which is pure bliss and of the
703
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,360
consciousness.
Now, these are very esoteric
704
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,680
concepts that I don't think we'd
want to get into, but it
705
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,600
essentially means that you go to
this undifferentiated state
706
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,440
where there is no happiness or
sadness.
707
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,440
There just is.
You know, it's not, it's, it's
708
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,320
not like we dream of a heaven in
the Christian or Islamic sense.
709
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,720
We aspire to reach, to become,
to merge into the supreme
710
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,600
consciousness that permeates us
at all times, but we're not
711
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,880
aware of because of our earthly
limitations.
712
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,960
That doesn't sound very far from
Judaism at all.
713
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,360
I mean, at least from my
understanding of Judaism, you
714
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,400
know, that, you know, we have
these notions of what we call
715
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,080
like Takana, which is to repair,
you know, like repairing
716
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,360
previous, you know, mistakes
and, you know, and repairing,
717
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,280
repairing our, our either our
own, if we, you know, we're
718
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,720
reincarnated our parents
mistakes.
719
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,240
And right.
It's a kind of, you know, I get
720
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,200
and I and I and, and there is
that also same theme of like
721
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,320
oneness, you know, the whole
interconnectedness and the
722
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,320
whole, you know, mass
consciousness.
723
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:55,880
Yeah, that I, I, I have such a
hard time believing that all
724
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120
these.
Religions, you guys have this
725
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,880
concept called tikkun olam,
right, which is to make the
726
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,280
world a better place by the
smallest of actions.
727
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,440
So it's, it's in a way to repair
it, repair it, correct.
728
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,520
Thank, thank, thank you for
using the right word.
729
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,320
So I, I remember reading about
it and I said, that's very
730
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,280
similar to, you know, how we
Hindus, we, we may not frame it
731
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,120
as repairing the world, but you
know, just being good and doing
732
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,760
good into the world so that it,
you leave it in a better place
733
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,920
than that which you received it.
So, so there's, you know, there
734
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,640
is, there is that idea as well
also, But I would say there's
735
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960
also a lot of orthopraxy in
Hinduism, similar to Judeaism.
736
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,120
Like there's a lot of ritualism,
right?
737
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,080
And things like that, which can,
which can get a little madding
738
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,280
and dizzying, But because it's,
it's, it's a very personal
739
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,200
religion, as we like to call it,
a way of life.
740
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,720
No, you're not.
You don't have to subscribe to
741
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:50,680
all of these things.
You don't have to do a lot of
742
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,080
these things to be a Hindu.
You just are, you know, it's so
743
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:56,680
like, you know, you know, in
Judaism, you have a lot of
744
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,240
mitzvot.
I It's mitzvahs that you have.
745
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,240
To you got it.
You got it?
746
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,040
Yeah.
So, but in Hinduism we don't
747
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,480
have it's not a hard and fasting
you may want you can do it.
748
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,400
We call them sunscars, you call
them mitzvahs.
749
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,440
You want to do it, you can do
it.
750
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,880
You don't want to do it.
That's fine.
751
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,440
You know, it's a lot more
flexible.
752
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,200
Interesting.
And there's no, are there
753
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,440
notions of like quote, UN quote
repercussions or I hate the word
754
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,680
punishment because I like to
think of more consequences to
755
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,680
actions.
For example, you know, if
756
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,240
someone doesn't invest in
healthy relationships, then
757
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:33,440
they're probably going to end up
just being lonely, you know, And
758
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,160
like, I don't call that a
punishment.
759
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,640
I call that a consequence of
years of years of a particular
760
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,320
action or behavior or mindset,
right?
761
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,680
You know, is that is that
emphasized?
762
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,920
To some degree, but there's
there's, you know, like there
763
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,600
is.
I think Indians tend to be a
764
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,120
little more God fearing like so
I think there's there's a
765
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,320
certain fatalism maybe that
people do believe in that
766
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,880
they're that it's a weird
contradiction, right?
767
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,040
Like there's there's this great
belief in karma and personal
768
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,600
agency, but there's also this
idea that.
769
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,040
There, there, there's
predestination.
770
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,880
So, so in, you know, in in
between that you kind of live
771
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,400
your life like there's because
you may, you may control
772
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,080
everything in this life and in
the here and now, but some
773
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,520
things that happened to you were
written because of what
774
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,320
happened, what you did in a
previous life.
775
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,560
Now you obviously have no memory
of that life.
776
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,960
So, so it kind of accounts
Hinduism kind of accounts of
777
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,080
both things.
Like for the things that you can
778
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,400
control, you obviously should be
doing more and, you know, do
779
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,400
your best.
But for the things that you
780
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,680
can't control, we, we'd say,
well, that is because you might
781
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,280
have done something bad in a
previous life.
782
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,320
And it's, it's, it's, you know,
a way of making sense of what
783
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,480
can't of, of the unknown.
Every religion has a way of
784
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,400
doing that.
And I think in Hinduism, we
785
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,360
attribute it to the the, you
know, it's like a carried
786
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,600
forward death from a previous
life.
787
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,240
So interesting, so cool.
I, I think it's, I think it's
788
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,200
beautiful.
I really, I, I think that that
789
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,680
idea in general, because I think
what it does is it gives you
790
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,560
license to kind of take
responsibility.
791
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,600
And then if things don't go the
way that you kind of expect it,
792
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,440
then you don't say, oh, how come
me you say, oh, well, this must
793
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,480
be the hand that I was dealt
with based on my, based on the
794
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,880
way that I behaved in a, in a
previous lifestyle.
795
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,240
And so now it's my job to kind
of rectify it.
796
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,040
So it's, I, I feel like that
still is a lot of agency.
797
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's that's actually a nice
798
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,600
way.
You've given it a new lease of
799
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,880
life in my own head.
Because there you.
800
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,240
Go it does it it does take away
a certain victimization because
801
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,480
I think that's something that,
you know, and I see this a lot
802
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,520
in the West, especially where
people that there's a little bit
803
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,680
of an I me myself, why me idea?
But but Hinduism tries to, you
804
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,600
know, give you a more 30,000
foot level view of your life and
805
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,160
say, well, you know, it's not
just you and it might be due to
806
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,320
something that happened in a
different life and and that's
807
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,160
and it's OK, you know, but yeah,
now think about what you can do
808
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,800
about it right now.
So I think, yeah.
809
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,280
So I think that that does take
away a little bit of that
810
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,680
following in self between the
You know you Can Fall chapter.
811
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:20,400
Awesome.
It's so it's so cool.
812
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,960
What's are a lot so in America
in the West these days, and I
813
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,200
think we're actually coming a
little bit the pendulum swinging
814
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,400
the other way.
But for probably the last 1520
815
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,440
years minimum, it was almost
kind of like a like religion or
816
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,400
God was kind of like almost like
a bad word.
817
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,920
You kind of didn't want to say
it or admit it because you kind
818
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,360
of almost seem to disqualify
yourself as someone that was
819
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,600
less than practical, which is,
it might be a little silly, but
820
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:48,920
you know what?
You can't.
821
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,120
You're going to do what you
could do.
822
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,400
Yeah.
What's, what's India?
823
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,280
What's the general population's
relationship with religion?
824
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,760
Are a lot more people religious
believers or religious or a lot
825
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,040
more people secular?
What's what's it like there?
826
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,560
So I'll give you a take that is
a little, you know, harsh, but
827
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,360
but, you know, it is what it is.
Yeah.
828
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,040
In India, religion is a little
bit of an opium of the masses
829
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,960
because see, we've suffered a
lot under colonialism and then
830
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,400
on and you know, right after
independence, we're we're,
831
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,840
we're, we're a democratic
country, yes, and a very
832
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,400
thriving, chaotic one.
But the, the institutions that
833
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600
we see today, they have taken a
long, long time to build and
834
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,800
they're not perfect.
So when people have no way to.
835
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,760
How do I put the frame this, you
know, when the institutions that
836
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,400
are meant to serve you and
promise you the life that you
837
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,960
deserve for short, when there's
corruption, when there's a lot
838
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,680
of red tape and and you're not
able to rise up and move to the
839
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,600
next level because of the
systemic injustices, then you
840
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,920
can you.
Give me an example of some of
841
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:02,840
them.
What are some?
842
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,440
What are some kind of injustices
that pop up?
843
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,280
Let's say, let's say there's a
village in a part of India in
844
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,880
the hinterlands and the, the,
the district collector or the
845
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,880
person in charge of taking care
of it is, is, is thoroughly
846
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,280
corrupt and embezzles funds.
So you, you know, you were
847
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,800
promised electricity or, you
know, and Wi-Fi and clean
848
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,640
drinking water next year.
But because of the corruption in
849
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,520
the system, because there's, you
know, problems with people
850
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,600
taking that cut bribes and
delivering substandard work, you
851
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,040
are not able to get 100%
electricity or the water
852
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,640
connection you are looking for
by the end of next year.
853
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,720
It may take two years, it may
take three years.
854
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,720
And even when it does come, it
may come with its fair set of
855
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,000
issues, it may not be as
promised.
856
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,280
So I think this is one example
of it, a very, you know,
857
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,560
contrived one, but it happens
that it happens at all levels.
858
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,120
It happens in different
capacities.
859
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Some states are better than
others.
860
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,160
It's not, you know, like India's
think of India as a
861
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,040
subcontinent.
It's it's like the European
862
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,480
Union.
Every region has its own story.
863
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,280
But I think it's some, you know,
if we, if we had to zoom out,
864
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,240
we, you can say with certainty
that this is a problem that
865
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,200
plagues a large cross section of
it.
866
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,200
And because of this, yeah, go
ahead, go ahead.
867
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:29,400
No, please, please.
Because of this.
868
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,320
Yeah, I.
Said because of this systemic
869
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,520
what I would call.
Corruption.
870
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,440
Or, you know, corruption.
A bureaucracy, Maybe even.
871
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,600
Yeah, this rock that exists,
people have to repose their
872
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,600
faith in something, right?
Like so where?
873
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,880
Who fills the void?
It is.
874
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,520
It is religion.
It is.
875
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,160
And that is why you see so much
religiosity.
876
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,520
And in some senses, religiosity
is proportionate to how
877
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,520
destitute cute they are.
Because the more you feel like
878
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,680
you have no way, no agency over
bettering your life, the more
879
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,040
you're going to trust an
external force that might offer
880
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,560
you salvation.
Perspective.
881
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,000
Such a thoughtful perspective.
So when you see like, so when
882
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,800
you see people being religious
in India, it's not so much
883
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,440
because, you know, they, they
want to do it.
884
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,920
Like in some ways it's a sad
thing because they have no other
885
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,120
way of, you know, making sense
of this life.
886
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,160
They they think that they.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
887
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,360
Some people, you know, like in
the US might or not just the US,
888
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,160
there's people doing it all
parts of the world may turn to,
889
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,880
to drugs to, you know, to, to
numb the pain and whatnot.
890
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,520
Some people turn to, to
religion.
891
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,720
So, you know, and, and I'm, I am
not a Marxist by any stretch of
892
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,440
imagination, but, but in I, I, I
will tell you that it does hold
893
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,280
true to some extent in India,
where it is a, it's a coping
894
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,280
mechanism.
It's a it's, it's a way of
895
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,840
filling the void that the the
systemic injustices leave in
896
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,120
India because for so many
people, it's the only way for
897
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,160
them to account for whatever is
happening to them.
898
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,440
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I feel like that's always
899
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,520
been the case with the religion,
right?
900
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,920
That's what makes it so, so, so
powerful.
901
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,680
And that's what makes it in so
enduring is that there's so many
902
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,360
people that kind of depend on it
to make sense of their lives.
903
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,360
Right, Right.
Which by the way, I don't think
904
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,880
is a bad thing necessarily,
because I think that I mean, my
905
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,240
understanding with, you know,
when I say, you know, when I,
906
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,760
when I say that I believe that
Judaism is, is, is truth, right?
907
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,600
I, I, I think that it's truth in
the sense that it's a guidebook
908
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:40,160
to live a successful and happy
and meaningful life for almost
909
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,640
anyone that wants to kind of
cling themselves to it.
910
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,440
And you know, it sounds the same
thing with Hinduism.
911
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,680
It sounds, and I know it's the
same thing with with all other
912
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,720
religions That right, you know,
that that it's almost like it
913
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:54,040
helps give us directions and
helps keep us grounded to I
914
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,200
always look at religion almost
like the evolution of
915
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,920
consciousness, you know, that
like we kind of go beyond the,
916
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:04,360
you know, our our primal
instincts for something greater,
917
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,880
typically community or
typically, you know, long term
918
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,320
investments that we wouldn't
ordinarily think to make right.
919
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,040
You know, I guess evolutionarily
or biologically, you know, out
920
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,880
of just, you know, desperate
need to survive just the moment,
921
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,560
you know, absolutely, I agree
with that.
922
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,720
Interesting.
So cool.
923
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,720
How how do politics work in
India?
924
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,840
What do you think of Modi?
Is that his name?
925
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,360
That's his name I heard.
I heard.
926
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,480
I heard him on Lux Friedman's
podcast you listen to.
927
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,720
That I don't think I'll be very
honest with you.
928
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,920
I typically don't listen to
podcasts.
929
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,720
I have heard some of yours
before, but thank you.
930
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,480
I yeah, but but I, you know, I
typically don't listen to
931
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,760
podcasts.
I'm more and even if I do, I
932
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,880
this sounds horrible, but I, I
read the transcript.
933
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,440
I love reading the transcript.
I'm more.
934
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,920
That's great.
Like I like, I like reading
935
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,640
things rather than listening to
things, even though it might be
936
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,480
the same thing, but but it's
just I feel like I process
937
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,560
information faster that way.
But no, I I haven't heard the
938
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,400
Friedman podcast.
But yes, Modi is his name.
939
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,800
That's the the Prime Minister
been serving his third term
940
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,520
right now.
Unlike the United States, we do
941
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,840
not have a term limit.
Yeah, a term limit.
942
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,680
So you can stand theoretically
as many times.
943
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,320
As you want, is it for?
Is it 4 year terms?
944
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,000
It's 5 S 5 year.
Term cool I.
945
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,560
See this is this is his 11th
issue going into 12th tier into
946
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,120
power.
And what what do people in India
947
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,400
think of him?
What are his what's what's his
948
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,760
is?
I don't I don't even know.
949
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,560
I like does does American
American left and right politics
950
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,600
translate to India left and
right politics or not quite?
951
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:52,280
That's a very good question.
So I, I, it doesn't, it really
952
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,640
doesn't because now let's say
Modi is the leader of what would
953
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,160
be considered the right wing
party in India because he's
954
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,760
touted to be Hindu nationalist
and all of that.
955
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,960
But now when I tell you about
our nationalist right wing
956
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,680
parties, they support a lot of
policies at the economic level
957
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,120
which are very socialist.
So right wing in India is more
958
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,200
to do with social conservatism
to some degree and not so much
959
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,600
with fiscal conservatism if that
makes sense to you.
960
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:22,320
That does make.
Sense.
961
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,200
Sure, yeah.
It's like, you know, over here,
962
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,120
a very right wing party like the
one that Modi leads at the
963
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:34,600
moment is notorious for
welfarism, for competitive
964
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,320
welfarism, as we call it, where
people are giving out dolls of
965
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,960
1200 rupees ���1500 if you belong
to a certain minority or if
966
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,000
you're a woman that earns less
than so much, which is, which is
967
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,760
unthinkable in a right wing
party and say, the UK or the US.
968
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,920
Yeah, the yeah, the, the more.
So, yeah.
969
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,840
To go going back to your
question, it doesn't need to map
970
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,760
onto the Indian political
context.
971
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,760
So what?
So what, what what's what's
972
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,440
India's general relationship to
Modi?
973
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,640
What do you think of him, if I
can ask you?
974
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,120
I mean, if you don't want to
answer, you don't have to.
975
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,120
But you know, like I don't want
you to be able to do anything.
976
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,760
I not at all, no, there's no
question you can ask me that
977
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,640
will fail.
But it's I'll briefly tell you,
978
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,080
India definitely likes Modi.
That's why he's enjoying his
979
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,960
12th year in power, although
that popularity has taken a hit
980
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,280
over the years, but but he's
still holding, holding on.
981
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,440
I mean, it's it's it's not
fallen perceptiously.
982
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,640
My own views of him are far a
lot more complicated.
983
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,280
I generally have not had a very
positive opinion of him because
984
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,320
I I don't agree with his
politics.
985
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,520
I don't agree with.
And and you know, when you see,
986
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,360
when you don't like someone in
their first and second year of
987
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,000
power, it's mostly theoretical,
right, Because you you it's
988
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,320
things they've said it's things
they said they're going to do
989
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,560
that inform your opinions.
But now into his third term, I,
990
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:01,920
I, I can see what he's done.
I can see the results of his
991
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,080
actions.
I can see the consequences of a
992
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,560
lot of them.
Like, for instance, there was a
993
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,080
time when he banned a certain
currency not in the Indian
994
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,280
system.
And all of us had to line up to,
995
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,640
you know, turn them in before a
deadline.
996
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,400
And this was ostensibly done to
curb corruption.
997
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,200
And everyone knows that had
absolutely no effect on it.
998
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,200
So there, there's been a lot of
short sighted policies which or
999
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,440
recently in Kashmir, where,
which kind of has led to the the
1000
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,400
war we're seeing right now.
There have been things that, you
1001
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,560
know, I I think could have been
done better where he's kind of
1002
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,120
played to the galleries and does
things just to win elections and
1003
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,880
you know, that are gimmicky, but
not thought through with a long
1004
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,840
term perspective.
So I think I think that is where
1005
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,040
Mike rouses with him typically
lie.
1006
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,640
OK, that sounds reasonable.
It sounds like it sounds like
1007
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,600
he's just, I mean, I don't know
how politics work, how
1008
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,080
politicians work, but it sounds
like pretty typical, you know,
1009
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,880
politics to me from from
American Point, you know, like
1010
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,680
our like our new head of the
FBI, Tash Patel saying, you
1011
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,520
know, for the last several, you
know, like the last year or two.
1012
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,960
Oh, well, you know, first day
that I get in, I'm going to turn
1013
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,240
the whole FBI building, you
know, the whole Hoover, the
1014
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:24,680
whole, the whole, the whole FBI
building into a Museum of the
1015
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,840
Deep State day one, you know,
and you know, and that's it.
1016
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,840
It's a great talking point.
It's very cute.
1017
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,320
It's a great cat, you know, like
it's, it got a lot of people to
1018
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,080
rally onto his side.
But it's, you know, and all
1019
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,000
sorts of practicality, like,
what are you gonna do?
1020
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,600
You know, like, how's that gonna
happen?
1021
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,880
Right, right.
And, you know, maybe maybe
1022
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,640
that's just the age we're living
in, right?
1023
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,640
I feel like it's the age of
social media and short attention
1024
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,520
spans like, and you have to do
things that you sometimes have
1025
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,720
to just say crazy things out
there to get people's attention,
1026
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,480
even if even if it's not the
best thing to say and if it's
1027
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,640
not the best thing to do.
So I think, you know, a lot of
1028
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,760
these demagogues, these
politicians that we see today,
1029
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,280
they promise things that grab
eyeballs and, you know,
1030
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,080
attention.
But are they, are they in the
1031
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,520
best interest of the country?
In the best?
1032
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,320
Interest.
How realistic are they even?
1033
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,000
How?
How realistic are they?
1034
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,560
God knows.
God does we.
1035
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,120
We know too, by the way.
God knows and we know you know
1036
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,480
the answer is.
Not we know, yeah.
1037
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,840
Yeah, it's not.
And the answer is not super hot.
1038
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,680
It's not super, super realistic.
It's true.
1039
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:28,600
It's true.
I see.
1040
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,280
And so, so got it.
So, so overall, he's been a
1041
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,440
leader for a long time.
Modi's been a leader for a long
1042
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,680
time overall, generally
speaking, obviously, because
1043
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,520
people, you know, there's a
third term, people have
1044
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,360
obviously liked him to a certain
degree, yeah.
1045
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,360
Is there a lot of competition or
is the like, are there a lot of
1046
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,840
other political figures that
could be really a threat to him
1047
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,760
or not really?
So you it would dizzy you to see
1048
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,160
India's political landscape
because we follow a British
1049
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,560
parliamentary style democracy.
So unlike the two party system
1050
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,320
that you have in presidential
style that you have in America,
1051
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:13,080
we have maybe like 100 different
parties of course in in
1052
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,000
parliament.
Coalitions and stuff like in
1053
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,880
Israel.
Yeah, Oh yeah, Israel's a great
1054
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,960
example.
So it's the, the, the, the
1055
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,840
system is very similar to Israel
where you need to sometimes, you
1056
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,040
know, if you don't get the
numbers yourself, you need to
1057
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,720
reach out across the aisle and
form alliances and whatnot.
1058
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,240
So we, we do have that.
But in the 1st 2 terms, Modi had
1059
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,120
no need for alliances.
They won pumping landslide
1060
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,840
majorities and there was, there
was no need for coalitions.
1061
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:47,640
But as a sign of his, you know,
slightly declining popularity
1062
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,320
and and a bit of anti
incumbency, the third term was
1063
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:56,560
not as resounding a victory.
He he had to cobble up an
1064
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,040
alliance with a bunch of people.
And yeah, so the current
1065
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,640
government is more of a
coalition government, but not
1066
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:09,120
not as not as much of A tenuous
coalition as the one BB
1067
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,400
currently is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1068
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,920
I was actually talking.
So I was talking to a friend of
1069
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,000
mine recently because I was
complaining about BB to him a
1070
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,880
little bit.
And he was like, listen, he
1071
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,800
goes, you know, I, I, I
certainly don't love BB myself.
1072
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,080
He's like, but you, he goes but,
and he goes.
1073
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,760
But we don't as, as Americans,
we don't think about the fact
1074
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,080
that if the, if, if the Israeli
government decided tomorrow, if
1075
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,240
one of the coalitions, one of
the people that he'd agreed to
1076
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,000
come with, you know, it's a
partnership with decided to
1077
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,920
leave, they could force
elections tomorrow and
1078
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,720
everything could fall apart.
And he goes and the person
1079
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,120
that's going to be, that's going
to replace BB tomorrow is not
1080
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,400
going to be someone that's going
to be more left-leaning.
1081
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,840
They're going to be far more,
far more right leaning and far
1082
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,840
more aggressive.
You know, and he's like, so BB's
1083
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,680
kind of has, is being forced to
stretch.
1084
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,280
And I, I, I, I actually do hear
that.
1085
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,080
And I think it's a point that's
really not made often enough in
1086
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,200
like in the, in the global
commentary on the war, is that,
1087
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,040
you know, that if he if he acts
in one way that really pisses
1088
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,000
off one person one day the wrong
way, the entire thing could
1089
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,760
really fall apart.
And then.
1090
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,600
And so I think that that should
give people at least a little
1091
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,320
bit of pause in terms of their
judgment.
1092
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,400
It certainly gave me a little
bit of pause.
1093
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,640
But you know, on the other hand,
it doesn't mean that you
1094
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,320
shouldn't still strive for for,
you know, better and for, you
1095
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,920
know, and for as good as you can
make it.
1096
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,160
You know, like I understand
that's reality.
1097
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,480
But you know the whole what
makes humanity great is that we
1098
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,400
dream and that we is that we
aspire and push for greater even
1099
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:37,520
though we don't think it's
possible.
1100
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,800
Absolutely, absolutely.
I, I think that is the beauty of
1101
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,400
coalition governments where you
can't steamroll, you know,
1102
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,280
people with, with one idea, you,
you have to go through a very
1103
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:53,880
consultative process to, to
build consensus, to build this
1104
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,120
kind of consent for your, for
your policies.
1105
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,600
And I think that it is slow.
It is, it is frustrating at
1106
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,200
times, but but I think it's in
the best interest of the of a
1107
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,840
country as diverse as ours.
I hope so.
1108
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,520
I really do think so.
Where is Pakistan relative to
1109
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,480
India?
Again, excuse my excuse, my
1110
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,360
absolute negligence, but no.
But where is Pakistan?
1111
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,760
What the heck is going on right
now?
1112
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,440
So.
Yeah, geographically.
1113
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,200
So Pakistan sits on the
northwestern frontier of India.
1114
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,840
So India is bounded by Pakistan
to its entire W to China in the
1115
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:36,400
north and and then to Myanmar or
Burma to the east SE.
1116
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,200
And then we have Bangladesh,
which is kind of we, we surround
1117
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,640
it and Sri Lanka as an island to
our southern waters.
1118
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,360
So that's, that's roughly the,
the, the geography of India.
1119
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,640
But yeah, Pakistan is, it's the
northwest.
1120
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,800
It's the Northwest, yeah.
How far is that from Bombay from
1121
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,240
where you are?
From Bombay, like Karachi would
1122
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,680
probably be about 500
kilometers, Yeah, like that's,
1123
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:06,320
that's like another post coastal
port city that belongs to
1124
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,520
Pakistan.
And they would probably be about
1125
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,520
500 kilometers from me.
So where Bombay is not
1126
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,240
incredibly far from Pakistan,
but it's also not super close
1127
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,520
like what we call the border
states like Punjab and Gujarat
1128
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,240
and Kashmir.
So those those are the states
1129
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,200
that have a direct border with
them.
1130
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,320
OK, And what's this tension?
How long has this tension been
1131
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,200
going on for?
Is this war out of the blue?
1132
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,480
Is it has it been coming?
You know, has it been boiling,
1133
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,680
simmering for a long time?
What's been going on with that?
1134
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,600
How does What's been?
What's the story with this?
1135
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,680
Let's let's draw parallels.
I always tell my Israeli and
1136
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,440
Jewish friends that it's India
and Pakistan is a divorce that
1137
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,640
went through, you know, like,
you know, Israel, Palestine is a
1138
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:53,040
divorce that never happens.
And here we have a divorce that
1139
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,640
actually went through.
We had lines drawn and we said,
1140
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,320
OK, this is yours, this is mine.
It was it was so clinical that
1141
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,160
when the British left, they even
divided the Indus Valley
1142
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,200
civilizations.
Excavations between our two
1143
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,520
countries so you imagine a 4000
year old civilization like you
1144
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,480
know that that drew out of our
in this river it was also
1145
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,640
divided like these porcelain
pots they go to India this.
1146
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,200
Is that mistake?
When did that happen?
1147
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,960
It was terror partition is is
probably one of the bloodiest
1148
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,320
events in history.
I think millions of people died,
1149
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,000
were displaced because the
British there it was, they
1150
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,040
essentially drew a line through
what was then undivided India.
1151
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,880
And the idea was at the heart of
it was when the when India
1152
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:49,280
started developing a sort of
national consciousness, it there
1153
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,440
was a section of Muslims that
felt like because they were not
1154
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,360
the majority in the
subcontinent, they may be lauded
1155
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,320
over by the Hindus who are in
the majority.
1156
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,840
So they wanted there was a
demand that they spearheaded for
1157
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,920
their own state, which was in
its inception, it was supposed
1158
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,880
to be a secular state, but
simply with a Muslim majority.
1159
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:15,560
So Pakistan was supposed to be
the mirror image of II was the a
1160
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,840
secular Hindu majority state,
while Pakistan was supposed to
1161
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,880
be a secular Muslim majority
state.
1162
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,160
The British under score
Ratcliffe was who had no
1163
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,600
experience whatsoever in any of
these things and and was seeing
1164
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,880
maps of India for the first
time.
1165
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:37,000
He drew a line through areas of
northwestern India where he felt
1166
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,400
like, you know, OK, this is a
more Muslim majority part.
1167
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,480
We put it there.
This is a more Hindu majority
1168
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,240
part.
Let's let's put it on this side
1169
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,840
of the line.
Sometimes he'd use rivers to
1170
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,400
mark boundaries.
And he eventually came up with a
1171
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,080
bifurcation of our two
countries.
1172
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,480
So that is where partition
happened.
1173
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,560
And there was a mass influx of
people because suddenly you
1174
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,280
found yourself on the wrong side
of the border.
1175
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,240
You're like, oh, well, that's
the Hindu majority country.
1176
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:03,920
But I had that side.
Oh, that's the Muslim majority
1177
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,920
country, but I had that side.
So people, you know, caught in
1178
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,000
the emotions were at an all time
high.
1179
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:16,360
People were rioting and killing.
And suddenly, you know, you have
1180
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,360
people coming from the other
side of the border displacing
1181
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,480
you and saying, hey, this is
mine.
1182
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,120
You no longer belong here.
This was a mess.
1183
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,280
It was.
It was a colossal mess and a
1184
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,080
dark, dark chapter in our
history.
1185
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,440
This this is the late 1800s,
this.
1186
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,800
Was no, this was this was 1947.
Very, very.
1187
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,320
Really the same time as Israel?
Yep, same time so.
1188
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,160
How come?
How come I don't know anything
1189
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,080
about this?
It's it's funny, the British
1190
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,040
talked both of us over at the
same time.
1191
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,440
So just like how they threw the
man screwed.
1192
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,160
Everything up, man, Seriously.
You you see the maps of Israel
1193
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,960
and Palestine when they drew it
for the Mandate of Palestine,
1194
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,600
when they're about to leave, it
was, it's just squiggly lines,
1195
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,200
OK, This is going to be the West
Bank.
1196
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,320
This is going to be Gaza.
This is going to be the
1197
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,160
internationally administered
territory of Jerusalem.
1198
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,080
It was, it was similar, like
someone just came and drew
1199
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,720
lines, squiggly lines and, you
know, and and then we were left
1200
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,600
to our devices.
They left, they were, they were
1201
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,320
like, it's not our problem
anymore.
1202
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,360
Let the let them sort this out
themselves.
1203
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,640
And just like you have the
Israel, you know, like the
1204
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,240
Nakbars, the Arabs call it, or
you know, the Israeli war of
1205
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,680
independence.
We had something similar here as
1206
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,800
well, where India and Pakistan,
shortly after this mass
1207
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,240
population transfer, went to war
over Kashmir because Kashmir is
1208
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,400
the northernmost part of India
and it had an interesting
1209
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,000
history.
So the population of Kashmir is
1210
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,280
predominantly Muslim, but it was
ruled by Hindu king.
1211
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,480
So in addition to when the
British left India, there were a
1212
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,160
lot of princely States, and the
princely states were given
1213
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,560
complete autonomy to decide
whether they wanted to join
1214
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,760
Pakistan or India.
And the king of Kashmir, being a
1215
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,160
Hindu, acceded to India.
He signed something called the
1216
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,040
instrument of a session and said
I want to be part of India.
1217
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:11,840
And it was ratified and done.
The Pakistanis were like, no,
1218
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,880
but it's predominantly Muslim.
It belongs with us.
1219
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,560
So there was, that was the first
war that broke out.
1220
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,240
And they send some irregular
Pashtun tribesmen into the
1221
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,120
capital of Kashmir.
We, we, we airlifted our
1222
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,920
soldiers into the city.
There was fighting and we
1223
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,360
managed to hold on to most of
it.
1224
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:31,760
They hold on to a little bit of
it.
1225
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,280
So that is the first war.
And what we are seeing right now
1226
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,480
is the most recent iteration of
that same conflict.
1227
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,240
Why did it start?
What did has it always been?
1228
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,560
Has it always kind of been
bubbling almost like how you
1229
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,320
know what I guess how Palestine
and Israel has been?
1230
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:54,800
Or is it because has it been
constantly just back and forth
1231
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,400
but with relatively peaceful
periods?
1232
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,480
Or is it just kind of us leave
it alone for now and then it
1233
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,040
kind of just blew up again
randomly one day?
1234
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:05,520
It's it's, it's turbulent.
It's like, I wouldn't say it's
1235
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,400
exactly like Israel Palestine,
but yeah, there, there are
1236
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,000
periods where you know, that,
that, that have been a little
1237
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,400
calm than others.
But by and large that that area
1238
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,280
has been relatively turbulent.
And, and I think the nature of
1239
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:22,280
the wars have changed because
initially it was, it was, it
1240
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,400
was, it was purely a land
dispute.
1241
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,280
But now what we are seeing today
is also kind of a response to
1242
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,800
terrorism because Pakistan has,
as a, as a matter of state
1243
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,760
policy, funded and provided
resources to a lot of terror
1244
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,440
groups, not dissimilar to the
way the Iranian Revolutionary
1245
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,240
Guard does.
You know, the Houthis and the
1246
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,800
Hezbollah and Hamas and all of
them, these are all, you know,
1247
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,520
if you trace the, for the
currency, the money, it, it all
1248
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,880
leads to offices in Qatar, in,
in Tehran and all of that.
1249
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,600
So similarly, Pakistan as a
matter of state policy has
1250
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:07,280
funded and chained a lot of
Islamist extremist groups to not
1251
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,960
just cause 'cause destabilize
India, but also other neighbors
1252
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,280
like Afghanistan.
So, so in, in some ways
1253
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:20,480
America's also involved in this
because back in the during the
1254
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,840
Cold War, when the US wanted to
push off the Soviets from
1255
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,200
Afghanistan, they punched a lot
of money into the Mujahideen,
1256
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,680
which was the local mullahs and
whatever in Afghanistan because
1257
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,760
they were the, the, the
resistance against the Soviets.
1258
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,400
But then after repulsing the
Soviets, what did the Mujahideen
1259
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,400
do?
And who was who was handling the
1260
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,000
Mujahideen?
There was the Pakistan deep
1261
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,640
state.
So the Pakistani deep state
1262
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,080
simply took the Mujahideen from
Afghanistan.
1263
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,600
They took those resources from
there and they moved it to
1264
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:55,240
Kashmir because now that the
Soviets were gone, they, you
1265
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,800
know, what do you do with this
reactionary restive force?
1266
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,560
So they, they, you know, they've
employed terrorist extremists
1267
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,080
like that to, to bleed India by
1000 cuts, as we call it.
1268
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,720
And, and it's, it's, it's
happened all across the length
1269
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:16,920
and breadth of this country.
Bomb blasts, kidnappings, mass
1270
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,400
executions.
That's that's what we saw most
1271
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:20,840
recently in Kashmir.
Really.
1272
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,840
Where, when, how recently I
didn't hear again.
1273
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,960
I feel so terrible about knowing
about any of this.
1274
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,280
No, no, no.
I mean, it's, it's totally fair.
1275
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:34,240
It's this happened on the 22nd
of April in, in, in Kashmir.
1276
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,720
So Kashmir is why is a very
Alpine mountainous region.
1277
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,480
It's considered the Switzerland
of India.
1278
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,600
And in the summer months, a lot
of people from the mainland tend
1279
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,120
to go there to holiday.
And especially, you know, in the
1280
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,880
past few years, a lot of
normalcy has returned to the the
1281
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,800
state and it's, it's no longer
been as on the boil, so to
1282
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,080
speak.
Yeah, turbulence.
1283
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,800
So, so there's been, there's
been an uptick in tourism, which
1284
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,120
is it's biggest source of
revenue.
1285
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:05,720
So there were a bunch of
tourists that were gallivanting,
1286
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,600
having a nice day in these
meadows in the mountains, when a
1287
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,960
bunch of terrorists swooped down
and indiscriminately started
1288
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,399
firing at them.
And they singled out all of the
1289
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:21,800
ones that were Hindu.
They, they spared the women,
1290
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,160
they killed the men in front of
them.
1291
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,439
And they, they literally put a
gun to their heads and said,
1292
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,040
well, if are you, are you Hindu
or are you Muslim?
1293
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,080
If you're, if you're Muslim,
recite these verses from the
1294
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,240
Quran so we know you're not
lying.
1295
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,880
If not, boom boom, you know it.
How many people died?
1296
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,080
About 28.
Man, really?
1297
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:48,800
It was, yeah, it was, it was, it
was a brutal massacre and so
1298
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,920
unexpected.
So it was, it was a bright sunny
1299
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:56,279
spring morning and afternoon at
that point, and people were just
1300
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:58,200
enjoying themselves, having a
good time.
1301
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,120
You know, they, you, if you see
pictures of it, there's picnic
1302
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,680
mats, there's people just taking
selfies when they hear gunshots.
1303
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,279
It, it, it was that sudden and
unexpected.
1304
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:14,520
So obviously that led to a huge
a lot of outrage in India and
1305
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:19,520
people demanded accountability.
And while there is a side to it.
1306
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,359
So is that what got these
tensions kicked off?
1307
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:24,200
Was this massive?
That's what got this kicked off.
1308
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,040
Yes, that was that was the spark
that led.
1309
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:32,319
Are these terrorist groups
calling when I went, I, I, I've
1310
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:34,399
been trying very hard.
It's, it's hard for me to do,
1311
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:36,319
but I, I really have been
working very hard at it to try
1312
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:40,160
to kind of understand what the
other side of in, in the
1313
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,319
conflict of saying what's the
other, what's the other side's
1314
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:47,319
rationalization, justification
or what's it, What's your story?
1315
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:53,560
So Pakistan, at least what they
tell themselves and, and what
1316
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:58,080
they try to sell in the world
media is that these are local
1317
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:02,640
Kashmiris that are aspiring to
independence and separatism,
1318
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,320
that they, they don't want to be
part of India, that they're
1319
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:10,320
being forcibly held on, you
know, occupied and colonized by,
1320
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,920
by the Delhi.
And and that and that their
1321
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,880
support for these extremists
should be seen as a as a as a
1322
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,600
support for freedom cycles.
Yes, classic, but but you know,
1323
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,880
Kashmir is a settled issue.
People, the people who they were
1324
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,160
Kashmiris were caught in this
carnage as well.
1325
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,720
And one of the immediate
responses, first from local
1326
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,320
Kashmiris, because you have just
killed their greatest source of
1327
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,240
revenue normalcy had returned to
their to their restive lands
1328
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,840
after so long.
They were finally, you know,
1329
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,360
welcoming tourists.
There was the businesses were
1330
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,240
running.
The economy seemed like it was
1331
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,080
making a turn for the good.
And then you send in these
1332
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,680
terrorists and obliterate all of
that.
1333
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,680
So, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard
to reconcile that, right?
1334
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,200
But, but it is, you know, it's,
it's just a matter of state
1335
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,440
policy.
Now, Pakistan has always tried
1336
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:13,720
to prop up this fake resistance
as a as a justification for its.
1337
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,760
Behavior.
Behavior, but but it it holds
1338
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,520
very little credibility and
doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
1339
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,440
Yeah.
Have you, you know, I've been.
1340
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,360
Have you been to Israel before?
I have, I have.
1341
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,160
I actually went as part of the
David project was through hello.
1342
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,040
It was funny.
It was almost like a like a
1343
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:34,320
birthright trip because I didn't
pay penny for it and.
1344
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,720
That's awesome.
How long do you go for?
1345
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,680
A week, 10 days.
Yeah, it was about 10 days.
1346
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:44,880
And did you go to, I'm assuming
you went to to the Old City in
1347
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,040
Jerusalem, right?
I did.
1348
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,400
I did.
So did you walk through the Arab
1349
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:54,000
shook there?
Against the advice of my work
1350
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,600
group, I did.
I did I Right.
1351
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,400
So so yeah, the.
Reason why, the reason why I'm
1352
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,000
asking you, the point I'm trying
to get to.
1353
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,360
So, you know, I used to be
afraid.
1354
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,320
My grandfather, my Saba, my
mom's father, he died a couple
1355
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:09,360
years ago, but he's an amazing
man and he loved Israel.
1356
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,520
And one thing, you know, and I
used to be afraid to walk
1357
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,520
through the Arab, the Arab shook
the Arab marketplace.
1358
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,800
And he's and he told and he's
like a friend.
1359
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:20,560
And he goes, they, these guys
just want a living.
1360
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:22,520
They just want to put food on
the table.
1361
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:24,760
They just want, you know, to
feed their families.
1362
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:26,960
They just want to live their
lives and have their businesses.
1363
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,960
He's like, if anything happens
to you, they lose their living
1364
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,920
for weeks or months at a time.
No one trusts them.
1365
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:36,280
He goes so they're just so they
want to live.
1366
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:39,440
They want to get along as well
as as much as anyone else does.
1367
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,880
And he goes, if you have a
couple of, you know, extremists
1368
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,240
or young kids or whatever it is,
you know, he goes,
1369
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,640
unfortunately, you have to keep
your eyes peeled, He goes.
1370
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,840
But by and large, everyone just
kind of wants to live their
1371
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,240
lives and do their things.
And it really made me feel a lot
1372
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:52,800
better about it.
And not only to make me feel
1373
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,680
better about it, but I actually
felt more inclined to stop in
1374
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,080
stores along the way.
And just that, you know, kind of
1375
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,080
look and see what they have and,
you know, to make them feel
1376
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,840
like, hey, you know, we're
working together over here.
1377
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:03,600
And I understand that you're
just trying to live and I'm just
1378
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,720
trying to live.
But, you know, but humanizes put
1379
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:08,920
it the, yeah, we need to do
that.
1380
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,520
So we really need to do that,
you know, and, you know, of
1381
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:16,440
course, you know, of course when
things like, you know, mass, you
1382
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:19,320
know, mass murders or, you know,
terrorist attacks happen,
1383
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,600
obviously, you know, there's,
you know, there's no excuses.
1384
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,800
But, you know, but, yeah, to
humanize and to say, listen,
1385
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,800
like a lot of these people just
want to live, you know, they
1386
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,720
just want to, you know, they
just want to be, you know, so,
1387
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:32,640
so.
And if you notice, if you notice
1388
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,960
Fe, it's always the, the, it's,
it's always people from outside
1389
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:37,720
that come and start most of
these troubles.
1390
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,840
It's now the people with the,
with skin in, in, in the, in the
1391
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,520
game or people, you know who
it's, it's all the
1392
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,320
radicalization always comes from
these, these people trying to
1393
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,440
start proxy wars and, and
instigate them.
1394
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,640
And, and, and you know, we know
in Israel Palestine's case,
1395
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,920
there's so many parties that are
trying, you know, that have
1396
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,200
their fingers in the pie.
It's the same case even with
1397
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,320
Kashmir, where Pakistan is
always trying to light this
1398
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,560
fuse, even though people there
is no appetite for it.
1399
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,880
It's a, it's a done and dusted.
It's a settled issue.
1400
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,800
But they they will not stop
because that's that.
1401
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,760
There's also something to be
said about how Pakistan is not a
1402
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,320
a vibrant democracy like us.
It's more of a military run
1403
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,080
democracy because the army views
disproportionate power there.
1404
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:31,160
And these conflicts with India
are the only thing that provide
1405
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,800
them legitimacy.
They are.
1406
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,720
They're bloated, corrupt, rotten
to the boat, and the only thing
1407
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:42,200
that allows them to keep up a
certain image in the public I is
1408
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:44,720
is these manufactured conflicts
with India?
1409
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,000
Is this constant needling?
Is this?
1410
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,640
Because it gives them something,
it gives them something to put
1411
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,960
on their resume.
Hey, we did this, you know,
1412
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,760
we're trying to do this for this
sake, you know.
1413
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,720
And like, you know, first of
all, who asked?
1414
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,880
You know #1 you know, the
people, the people that are
1415
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:00,920
living there don't seem to ask
if that's if they're, if
1416
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:02,680
they're, if they're living is
based on tourism.
1417
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:04,160
And now they can't get that, you
know?
1418
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,640
Exactly, exactly.
And the Pakistani army knows
1419
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,160
this all all too well.
They know that it's, it's not
1420
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:12,680
just about putting it on a
resume, but also the only thing
1421
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,800
that will make them look good in
the eyes of the public, right.
1422
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,400
These because they need a they
need a, they need a villain.
1423
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,800
And India and these manufactured
conflicts constant the the
1424
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,560
Pakistani people need to realize
that the true villains are their
1425
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,840
own military who cannot allow
them to, you know, that the
1426
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,000
country is backward.
It's funny, Effie, when we got
1427
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,320
partitioned, Pakistan had the
higher GDP per capita Pakistan
1428
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,960
had.
Yeah, Pakistan got the more
1429
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:44,000
fertile lands Pakistan got.
You know, we were, we were
1430
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,720
generous in some ways in giving
them that.
1431
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:48,960
And they they were, they were
wealthier than us when we
1432
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:54,120
started off in 1947.
By the time you know these in
1433
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,920
the last 10 years, they we've
left them far, far behind in the
1434
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,560
last few decades.
Yeah, they're.
1435
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:03,720
Priorities have been very
different from us.
1436
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,560
So this is what the Pakistani
public doesn't realize that the
1437
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,520
military is short changing them.
It constantly props up this
1438
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:16,160
bogeyman of India and Kashmir to
keep them embroiled in this
1439
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:20,760
nonsense of almost conflict.
But it's not in their interest
1440
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,200
anymore.
Yeah, I, the way, you know, I, I
1441
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,560
think, and this actually almost
goes full circle at the
1442
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:28,960
beginning of our conversation,
you know, the way that you can
1443
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,560
kind of get people to get on
board with you is either with
1444
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,000
junk food or healthy food,
right.
1445
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,160
And junk food would be to kind
of blame someone else and
1446
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,840
villainize other people to kind
of get people to rally around a
1447
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,280
common enemy as opposed to
striving for a common good.
1448
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,440
Where how do we get everyone to
be happy, you know, and how do
1449
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:46,000
we promise a better life for
everyone?
1450
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,000
You know, and and I feel like
you can either run from a
1451
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,480
position of be afraid of
everyone else and they're
1452
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,280
they're trying to get you as
opposed to what can we do to get
1453
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,960
everyone to be happy and
successful and comfortable and
1454
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,480
interesting too.
Well, yeah.
1455
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:04,000
Interesting.
Interesting.
1456
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,760
So what's the warp?
So this mass, so the mass
1457
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,440
execution happened.
And what was India's response?
1458
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,400
India, it, it, you know, this
time it, it was a calibrated
1459
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,400
response.
We didn't, we didn't go all hand
1460
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,920
starting out, but we, we, I
think the first significant
1461
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,840
decision we took was to cancel a
water treaty that we have over
1462
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,960
the, in this river that runs
through both of our countries
1463
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:32,120
and say that we're no longer,
you know, going to uphold it.
1464
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,640
So the treaty essentially
allowed for a division of the
1465
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,880
the water's resources.
But now we're like, we're not
1466
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,800
going to hold on to it.
We will decide how much of that
1467
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,520
water we keep for ourselves.
We may build dams on the upper
1468
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,520
riparians, which is the upper
parts of the river, and you may
1469
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:56,000
not get the water you want.
So we're like, this is serious.
1470
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:57,960
Because initially, initially it
was not.
1471
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:00,600
It was initially an economic
response, not a military.
1472
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:01,920
Response.
Yeah, it started with an
1473
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:06,080
economic response.
And, you know, we as one
1474
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,360
politician put in blood and
water cannot flow together.
1475
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,640
So it's, and I, I think there is
a recognition in India, this is
1476
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:14,200
not the first time this is
happening, by the way.
1477
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,840
This is, you know, terrorist
attacks like these and in some
1478
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,200
senses even worse than these
have happened over a series of
1479
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,120
decades, even in Bombay.
Bombay is perhaps the city that
1480
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:29,240
has suffered the most.
And each time we have tried to
1481
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,920
be accommodating.
We've tried, we've tried various
1482
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,880
ways, we've tried to sanction
Pakistan, we've tried to isolate
1483
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:36,280
them in the international
community.
1484
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,400
We've tried to put them on great
lists in the financial world.
1485
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:43,240
But it it has not borne the
results we've wanted.
1486
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,520
And I think now there's a
recognition that it has to be
1487
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:48,800
somewhat, you know, like Israeli
style.
1488
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:54,040
We need to show Hotstar and
yeah, you know, get show them
1489
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,800
that it's it we will hit hard
and in all senses.
1490
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:03,800
So the economic penalties
obviously were what we started
1491
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,800
out with and then they
progressed.
1492
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,960
And this Wednesday we launched
missiles in ballistic missiles
1493
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:16,400
at what we, you know, see as
terror camps inside deep inside
1494
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:21,280
Pakistan.
We we there were nine sites that
1495
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,680
the Army had singled out and on
on Wednesday night, we just blew
1496
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,000
them all up from within our
airspace.
1497
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:32,880
So that that that took them by
surprise, I bet.
1498
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,160
Yeah, Yeah.
There was suddenly all these
1499
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,400
videos of like, kaboom, like we
didn't see that coming.
1500
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:43,320
And I think we killed close to
100 and 150 terrorists,
1501
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,840
including the man.
I don't know if you did you know
1502
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,840
about Daniel Pearl.
No, Tell me about him.
1503
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,080
So Daniel Paul was a Jewish
American journalist, a very
1504
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,920
famous 1.
I believe he worked for CNN but
1505
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,360
I could be wrong.
Who was investigating during the
1506
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,160
years of the War on Terror and
etc.
1507
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:09,800
He was investigating links in
Pakistans Punjab region.
1508
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:15,640
And it's it's over there that he
gets kidnapped by Mullah Omar
1509
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:20,920
Sheikh and is forced to confess
that he's a Jew on camera and
1510
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,840
that he will not convert to
Islam and.
1511
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:26,840
Etc.
And that he you know that he's,
1512
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:32,160
you know, has time in Israel and
and they behead him on camera.
1513
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:33,920
They.
Did so recently, yeah.
1514
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:35,920
This was this was many years
ago.
1515
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,240
It was I think at least two
decades ago, but it was it was a
1516
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:44,120
very brutal, brutal killing of a
Jewish American journalist that
1517
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,600
shook the world.
And one of the perpetrators of
1518
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:54,440
faith was actually, you know,
part of the, the terror matrix
1519
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:57,040
that we eliminated during
Wednesday night's strike.
1520
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:00,520
So, you know, there's a lot of
interconnectedness here because
1521
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,560
these these terrorists, it's,
they don't only target India.
1522
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:06,000
They also look for Jewish
targets.
1523
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,280
They also look for Israeli
targets.
1524
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:11,240
They're also active in
Afghanistan.
1525
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,960
So, so it's a it's a whole, it's
a whole apparatus.
1526
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:17,320
And I think the strikes that we
did on Wednesday were were our
1527
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:23,000
response to them.
Is there is there concern about
1528
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,400
nuclear escalation or is that
just Western media blowing
1529
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,440
things out of proportion?
There always is because we're
1530
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:32,200
both nuclear armed countries
they have about.
1531
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:34,920
I'll be scared shitless, right?
Quite frankly.
1532
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:38,440
It's never going to happen if
you because see, I'll tell you
1533
01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:40,840
why very logically, this is what
I tell people.
1534
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,840
See, when the US and the USSR
spot you will you guys were
1535
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,120
separated by huge oceans and you
know, on different sides of the
1536
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:52,160
world, India and Pakistan share
the same land, we share the same
1537
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,560
rivers, the same sometimes
families, clans, you.
1538
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:56,920
Can't blow one up without
blowing both up.
1539
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,560
Yes, exactly.
It is mutually assured
1540
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:02,200
destruction and it's not as
simple as you know.
1541
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:06,120
So Pakistan has actually, you
know, it's quite devious that
1542
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,040
way.
It has developed and I think it
1543
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:09,880
is one of the only countries
that has developed these
1544
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:11,960
something called tactical
nuclear weapons.
1545
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,960
So tactical nuclear weapons are
basically bonsai miniaturized
1546
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,240
nuclear warheads that they've
developed specifically to Jews
1547
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:22,400
against Indian conventional
forces.
1548
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:26,000
So because they know they cannot
match the size and strength of
1549
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,720
the Indian military tomorrow,
they're like, if, if shit gets
1550
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,760
hits the roof, they might launch
a new a small baby nuke on our,
1551
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,880
on our forces on the
battlefield.
1552
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,720
So it's, you know, but The thing
is with that.
1553
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,720
So that's more likely than like
a full blown nuclear exchange.
1554
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,800
Yeah, Yeah.
So that's that's more likely.
1555
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,400
So these strategic nuclear
warheads, as they call them, are
1556
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:48,920
more likely than the more
conventional.
1557
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:51,960
But the point is that even if
they use one of those, the
1558
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,760
fallout will be on regions that
both of us share.
1559
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,880
We both share the same rivers.
We both like, you know, when
1560
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,000
Chernobyl happened, which
funnily enough I had the
1561
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:03,400
privilege of visiting before I
got invaded.
1562
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,280
No way.
Yeah, I was in Chernobyl 20
1563
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:12,640
December Jan 2022, just before
the war.
1564
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:16,880
Wow, yeah.
So you know what, when Chernobyl
1565
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:21,120
happened in the 1980s, there was
a lot of concern in Western
1566
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:24,280
European capitals about nuclear
fallout, like the, the winds
1567
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:27,880
taking the, the, the ashes to
Paris and Amsterdam and Warsaw.
1568
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,560
So what the the Ukrainians did
was they dug up 6 feet of the
1569
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:37,560
topsoil wherever in the fallout
zone and they they put them in
1570
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:41,120
lead containers to contain the
radiation.
1571
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,800
Yeah, that's right.
So that's to give you an idea
1572
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,960
about how you may, there may be
a nuclear fallout in one part,
1573
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,880
but the effects of it,
especially if you share a
1574
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,400
contiguous landmass, will be
felt by you sooner or later.
1575
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,960
So in our case, because we're
like neighbors that share so
1576
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:02,920
much you, you can't bomb one
side without feeling the effects
1577
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,240
on yours as well.
And this is this is just the
1578
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,080
effects.
Of course, India has a policy of
1579
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,120
no first use.
So we will never be the first
1580
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:14,080
ones to use nukes.
But should we ever get the
1581
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:17,680
indication that you're going to
use one on us, we have a policy
1582
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:20,520
of total annihilation.
So we launch all of them.
1583
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,240
You will be wiped out.
Really.
1584
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,760
Even though it might affect
India in the long term.
1585
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,960
Even though if so it's called,
there's a, there's a fancier
1586
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,680
word in international relations
that's escaping my mind right
1587
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,920
now.
It's just 2:00 AM, but it's
1588
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,480
called, it's called, it's
called, it's called, it's called
1589
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,240
like total annihilation or
something like that.
1590
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,640
So it's not like we will respond
in a measured way to a nuclear
1591
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:43,840
attack.
If there's even a tactical
1592
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,000
nuclear warhead launched there
as a small one, We release all
1593
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,240
of them.
We we let the you know, gates
1594
01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:52,680
open that there's no coming
back.
1595
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,760
Yeah, war scares the crap out of
me these days, man.
1596
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,760
You know, I mean, when what?
You know, I, I, I about a year
1597
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,760
ago, you know, actually I, you
know, I, I did I tell you I had
1598
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,480
a second kid.
I'm sorry.
1599
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:07,960
Did I tell you that I had a
second kid the other week?
1600
01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:11,720
No, I I know it's the first one
I didn't know.
1601
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,160
Yes, I had a baby girl.
I had a baby girl, right?
1602
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:16,280
Oh my God, congratulations.
Thank you.
1603
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:22,120
Her name's Ariela, and she looks
like an alien still, so we have
1604
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:23,360
to give her, like, another
couple of weeks.
1605
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,760
But she's so cute.
But yeah, it's really exciting.
1606
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:28,000
I'll send you some pictures
after.
1607
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,360
But, you know, I was going last
year.
1608
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:34,480
I was going.
I remember when, when I ran
1609
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:36,880
when, when, when it really
looked like we're on the cusp of
1610
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:38,760
World War Three, Right.
Yeah.
1611
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:42,280
Between, you know, and I was
going for a jog one time, you
1612
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,000
know, one night when I heard the
news.
1613
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,520
And I was just while I was think
jogging, thinking like how much
1614
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,880
it would suck that, you know,
if, if, if, if Florida got
1615
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:56,560
bombed, right.
And I who in killing myself to
1616
01:25:57,480 --> 01:25:59,840
support a family and raise them
and live my life and be
1617
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:01,240
productive and do the right
things.
1618
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:04,560
You know, I lose everything
because of a decision that a,
1619
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,840
you know, because of a decision
a political leader made that
1620
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:10,680
translated into destroying my
life.
1621
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:12,680
I was like, yeah, I just can't.
I can't.
1622
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:16,160
Like just that notion itself
made me, made it hard to stomach
1623
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:19,320
any kind of notion of war.
And I mean, yeah, it really
1624
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:23,280
scares the heck out of me.
And it really makes me, I think
1625
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,040
I have a different kind of
appreciation.
1626
01:26:26,480 --> 01:26:31,480
Like, I don't think that you
could still take sides and say
1627
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:34,520
that war sucks and shouldn't
happen.
1628
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:39,680
You could still say that you
have a moral alignment with one
1629
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:42,920
side or another.
That doesn't necessarily mean
1630
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,720
that it has to escalate to
people minding their own
1631
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:49,360
business getting blown up.
And that's really, you know, I
1632
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:50,920
feel I've been feeling that
really strongly.
1633
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,360
And, you know, so when I heard
about this happening in India,
1634
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,640
just, you know, just last week,
you know, I felt very strongly,
1635
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:02,600
just like, oh, man, like, you
know, it's so heartbreaking.
1636
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,800
And like to hear that, you know,
more that's happening.
1637
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:06,560
It's just, it's so upsetting.
It's so sad.
1638
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:09,840
It's so sad.
Where we're used to it at this
1639
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,160
point and.
That's even worse, right?
1640
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,960
Yeah, in some ways getting numb
to war is.
1641
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:21,080
So when you think about terror
attacks, I mean, in the recent
1642
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,840
past, they have come down to
Maldives credit.
1643
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:28,600
He has been pretty good at
ramping up internal security,
1644
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:33,440
these lapses notwithstanding.
But you know, they're they're a
1645
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:35,680
feature of our lives here.
Like for instance, when I have
1646
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,560
to use our version of the
subway, it's not subway, it's
1647
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,800
elevated here.
I have to go through Fe a metal
1648
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,080
detector and I have to go
through a man frisking me on a
1649
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,360
pedestal with a point.
Yes, so so.
1650
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:54,080
And would you prefer that to not
having that security on a big
1651
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:56,480
public thing like, like would
you rather that?
1652
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,840
Yeah, because I know that I'm
more secure, you know that
1653
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,080
there's.
I think the subways need
1654
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:05,760
security.
I've been saying for years, I
1655
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:07,960
think it's crazy that anyone
would just walk down a subway,
1656
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:11,880
put $2.00 in, and just go
anywhere they want to and be
1657
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,320
with the entire world.
You know, like, it's scary.
1658
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,640
But, you know, like the kind of
security that we have for our
1659
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,960
public transport, a lot of our
public transport, our malls, our
1660
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:24,880
cinemas, they're akin to what
you would see at an airport.
1661
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,880
So, you know, we, we have to put
our things in a tray and the
1662
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,920
tray goes through a scanner.
Then I go through a metal
1663
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:32,680
detector.
And as soon as I emerge from the
1664
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:34,960
other side of the metal
detector, there's a man or woman
1665
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,000
standing with a wand that will
pack me down.
1666
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,880
This is this happens every time
we enter cinema halls, malls,
1667
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:47,480
shopping complexes, big events,
stadiums, and of course, public
1668
01:28:47,480 --> 01:28:50,720
transport as well.
So this is the reality of our
1669
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:53,520
life here.
And, and sure, it does take us a
1670
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,280
few extra 10 seconds.
It adds an extra level of
1671
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,680
complexity and, you know, fast
to our lives.
1672
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,920
But but I know that it is for
our security and, and we live in
1673
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:04,680
a very volatile part of the
world.
1674
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:09,880
So I'd rather spend those extra
10 seconds then then getting
1675
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,960
blown up.
Yeah, definitely.
1676
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,600
Oh, man, Oh, man.
OK, I want to ask you one last
1677
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:17,480
question.
I feel terrible.
1678
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:19,120
I feel bad that it's 2:00 in the
morning.
1679
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,320
No.
Don't be I've been awake for the
1680
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,880
last few nights because of all
of this and I I mean not not out
1681
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,160
of stress, but I, I love
collecting OS ink, which is like
1682
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,960
open source intelligence and how
do you?
1683
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:32,160
Collect it.
Where do you get it from?
1684
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,360
So there's, there's an app that
I use very rudimentary called
1685
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,640
flight red R24, which shows you
all the flights in the world
1686
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:43,960
live, like on the map, you can
tell the call sign, all of that.
1687
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:45,840
So that's one way.
There's there's, you know,
1688
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:47,800
certain Reddit forums, defense
forums.
1689
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,600
So I, I lurk everywhere and try
to like figure out the
1690
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:54,240
narratives before they hit the
mainstream media.
1691
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,520
So that's that's like it's a
little quirk where I had but
1692
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:58,760
but.
That's awesome, don't you?
1693
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:05,480
Don't feel bad.
Is the mainstream media more
1694
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,280
trusted in India than it is in
America?
1695
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,160
Because right now no one trusts
mainstream media.
1696
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:11,920
So like everyone has to get
their sources from like
1697
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:14,280
literally anywhere.
It's so crazy.
1698
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,240
I don't think it's reached the
American level, but there are
1699
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:20,560
moments and also there's
something to be said about how
1700
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:22,400
it depends on who you ask,
right?
1701
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:26,160
Like because a lot of the media
houses in the past few years in
1702
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:29,320
especially during more these
second term, they kind of got
1703
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:33,760
compromised in that they, they
they switched tax and are
1704
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,600
completely pro government at
this point and are very
1705
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:41,480
reluctant to criticize any of
the policies that come from the
1706
01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:44,160
center.
So I think there's, you know, if
1707
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:46,800
you speak to people who voted
for that party, they'll be like,
1708
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:47,960
oh, there's nothing wrong.
This is oh.
1709
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:52,320
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, so, so you know, it's it's
1710
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:52,760
I got.
You.
1711
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:54,280
Yeah, I got you.
What?
1712
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,000
So I saw, I saw one of your
stories.
1713
01:30:56,000 --> 01:31:01,400
I wanted to and I wanted to ask
you about it, about Trump, about
1714
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,600
Trump being involved in the
ceasefire and that you didn't
1715
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:08,200
seem thrilled with that, right?
Absolutely not and.
1716
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:10,880
It just, I would love to, I
would love to hear your, your
1717
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,640
thoughts on that and why.
It just comes down to our
1718
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,080
experiences with colonialism,
right?
1719
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:21,560
Like we don't we've we've been
up lorded over by a, a third
1720
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,520
party of a country that had no
business being in our land in
1721
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,560
our involved in our affairs.
So, so that kind of experience
1722
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,280
really informs your policies
going forward as an independent
1723
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,840
country.
So it has been a matter of
1724
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,040
Indian state policies, see,
since the birth of this country
1725
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:44,400
to be non aligned and to, to
chart it's own path and to not
1726
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,960
be in any block.
And this, this is sometimes to
1727
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:49,400
our own detriment, right?
Because if you, if you're not,
1728
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:54,440
we, we a lot of our allies are
not as vocal about supporting us
1729
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:56,760
because we're not as vocal about
supporting them.
1730
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:01,400
We try to maintain equanimity.
So the point of all this is that
1731
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,520
we, we generally like being
independent in how we deal with
1732
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,480
things.
And it has also been a matter of
1733
01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:12,400
state policy for India to keep
Kashmir A bilateral issue
1734
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:15,200
between India and Pakistan.
As we, I'll be very honest with
1735
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,680
you, if yesterday we heard that
Pakistan had wanted to do a
1736
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,120
ceasefire with us and it had
come from the two of us, that's
1737
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,080
India and Pakistan, I would be a
little disappointed because we
1738
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:30,240
couldn't book their ass more.
But I take it, I take it but we
1739
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:35,560
do not like Western countries
meddling in our affairs and
1740
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:40,000
certainly not people pre empting
it and and stealing credit for
1741
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:41,880
it.
And and I think there's also,
1742
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:45,080
you know, a certain
dismissiveness in this current
1743
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,920
administration and the way it
treats this conflict like all
1744
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:49,880
these are just two children.
Get over it.
1745
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:53,280
You know, this is not serious
because you think about it.
1746
01:32:53,440 --> 01:32:59,080
If if 26 people were massacred
in Aspen in a ski resort, OK,
1747
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,280
one fine spring morning, how?
Was it for that?
1748
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,080
Yeah.
Like America, it, you know, it
1749
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,640
got enlisted so many Western
countries that had nothing to do
1750
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:13,680
with 911 in its War on Terror.
And we'll not get into the weeds
1751
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:17,320
of it, but but when it when it
happens to one of you guys,
1752
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,880
everybody's supposed to stand up
and take no and it's a big deal.
1753
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,040
But when it's with us, then it's
it's treated with, you know,
1754
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:28,840
short shift and a certain
dismissiveness that I've noticed
1755
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,640
in the tone and tenor of
American statement.
1756
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:35,440
Well, I would like to change
that, quite frankly.
1757
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,400
I mean, that's why I think it's
important to even learn about
1758
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,800
this from you and put this out
because I think that it's I
1759
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,960
think it is relevant.
I think it is important again,
1760
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,240
even if India and Pakistan keep
it between the two of you guys,
1761
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,320
yeah, the words to still be
aware and to still be aware as
1762
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:54,560
to the value and the history and
you know what's going on, you
1763
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:55,520
know?
Yeah, yeah.
1764
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,520
The complexities for sure, for
sure, for sure.
1765
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:02,520
Is there, are there parts of of
Krishma of Krishmere that are
1766
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:05,920
almost like religious grounds
similar to the Middle East?
1767
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,760
Or is it, is it just based on
like where you're going to be?
1768
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,200
And again, that conflict between
the leadership and the and the
1769
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:16,400
and the and the population.
It's yeah, no, it's not
1770
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,080
religious.
Like I don't think there's any
1771
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,040
part of.
It's not like the AL Aqsa Mosque
1772
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:23,440
or the Dome of the Rock.
There's no religious
1773
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:25,000
significance to the land as
such.
1774
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:30,840
It's more of a ethno conflict,
the made-up ethno conflict at
1775
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:33,280
this point, because the
Kashmiris are are fine.
1776
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:36,040
Like there, there are questions
of, you know, devolving more
1777
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:39,120
autonomy to the local government
and all of that, which which
1778
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:42,560
India does with certain states,
which, you know, lie on its
1779
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,440
periphery.
But it's there is no burning
1780
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,520
demand for secession or anything
of that sort.
1781
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,440
It's most of that, yeah.
So it's more more to do with the
1782
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:56,720
land, but.
So how does this so would this
1783
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:59,440
hypothetically be easier to
resolve if there was a little
1784
01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:02,080
bit less invested?
Like what would it take to
1785
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:03,720
resolve this or what does it
take?
1786
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:06,880
Oh, that is, that is a great
question.
1787
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:07,920
I wish.
I wish.
1788
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:10,960
I we don't we we would have all
night if we to answer that
1789
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:13,360
question right, That's what.
We need, no, I'll, I'll just add
1790
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,720
one more dimension to it.
And, and you know it.
1791
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:19,360
We're, we're Jews and Hindus.
We ask more questions than we
1792
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:21,960
answer them, right.
So I will, I will put one more
1793
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,360
thing to complicate your brain
more.
1794
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:27,800
Kashmir is not just about the
land, but it's also the
1795
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,320
resources because it's the it's
where the glaciers that feed
1796
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,880
most of the waters that irrigate
the Indian subcontinent lie.
1797
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:38,440
So you know.
The So it's very valuable and.
1798
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:42,000
It is very valuable.
So even right now when, you
1799
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,880
know, I mentioned that economic
reaction that we took of
1800
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,760
suspending the water treaty,
it's connected to that because
1801
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:51,000
we happen to be in the higher
elevations, the upper reaches,
1802
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,080
so we have control over the flow
of water before it enters
1803
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:57,600
Pakistan.
So in some ways this is also a,
1804
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,120
a water wall, a wall of
resources, which is only going
1805
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,520
to heat up with climate change
and global warming, right?
1806
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,360
So that's, you know, another
dimension to it as well besides
1807
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:09,800
all the the land.
That's no conflict, blah, blah,
1808
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:12,280
blah.
So it's it's it's hard to see
1809
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:14,120
more like.
That would be, but I feel like
1810
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:16,640
that would be the, the
underlying thing to solve,
1811
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:20,880
right.
Like if you, I mean, I, I think
1812
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,800
money speaks louder than almost
anything.
1813
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:24,760
You know, I think that that's, I
think people have come.
1814
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,000
I think we've come to learn that
throughout the years.
1815
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:31,760
But you know, I think that I
guess, I guess you think it just
1816
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:35,240
comes, you think that money or
like a deal, a fair deal would
1817
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:37,520
just kind of make the whole
thing go away.
1818
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:42,040
No, no, this is like, I think in
these parts, I feel like in in
1819
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:44,480
the old world, as we call it,
like you guys live in the new
1820
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:46,600
world.
Yeah, people have ties to the
1821
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,680
land, right?
Like it's like, you know, when
1822
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:52,040
you talk about Israel as well,
there's, there's people that
1823
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:54,640
have been living there for
years, decades, centuries maybe
1824
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:56,120
sure as well.
There's people.
1825
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:59,560
So there's no amount of money.
There's only so much money you
1826
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:01,720
can buy.
There's, there's questions of
1827
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:06,360
identity mixed into it.
There's questions of nationhood
1828
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:10,480
mixed into it that that money
simply cannot solve.
1829
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,240
Well, you could try.
I don't know.
1830
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,640
I don't know.
Let's see.
1831
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,800
Because if not, the answer is
just to keep on doing this, you
1832
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:25,560
know, for who knows how long.
There there are answers, but you
1833
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:29,400
know, it's it's also, you know,
we may do everything that we see
1834
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:30,560
it.
It has died down.
1835
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:35,240
Like if you if you saw a graph
of the insurgency or the number
1836
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:37,680
of militant attacks in Kashmir,
it has come down over the years
1837
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:40,720
to the creditors, not just this
government but previous ones as
1838
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:42,760
well.
They have been concerted efforts
1839
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,960
in that direction.
But like I said, right, the
1840
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:50,840
Pakistan Army needs a it needs
to justify its existence.
1841
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,760
It needs to justify.
Yeah, I understand.
1842
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:54,880
Right.
It's so you.
1843
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:55,680
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very.
1844
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,640
So we may do everything.
Right, right.
1845
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,120
Like we may do everything right.
The population seems to be
1846
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,680
enjoying the fruits of India's
phenomenal economic growth.
1847
01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:08,360
We were just about to see a
fantastic tourist season.
1848
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,240
But but then now you have these
external actors that have all
1849
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:13,840
these I'll intentions against
you.
1850
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:16,080
So what do you do about that?
Right?
1851
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:18,720
Like, do we balkanize Pakistan
further?
1852
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:23,680
Do we do we hit them until they
do a regime change?
1853
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,720
We don't know.
We, we, we want a lot of things.
1854
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:29,560
You ask?
We want a very firm response
1855
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:32,440
this time.
But but yeah, it's it's, it's
1856
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:34,480
going to take two to tango, as
they say.
1857
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:37,160
Yeah, yeah, it does.
It definitely does.
1858
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,800
I think I will leave you with
that.
1859
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:44,200
I think I'll let you go to
sleep, but I've I've never why
1860
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:45,840
is there 1/2 hour time
difference?
1861
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:48,560
It's like my it was what is it 8
1/2 hour to be?
1862
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,760
Different we we had to be
different, right?
1863
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,080
We were.
I guess so we it's cool.
1864
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:54,360
I never heard of not.
Be sane.
1865
01:38:56,360 --> 01:38:57,720
Sheree, I love talking to you
man.
1866
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,120
I missed you.
Talking to you and we need to
1867
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:03,680
catch up more casually at some
point like yes, where we're not
1868
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:07,160
talking about the the the end of
the war, we need to be talking
1869
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,120
about your kids and your wife
and.
1870
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,360
And yes, that's right.
And Disney.
1871
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:13,680
Of course, of course, of course,
of course.
1872
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:15,160
Trey, I love you.
Thank you so much for doing
1873
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:15,680
this.
Love you.
1874
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,280
And we'll talk soon, and we'll
do this again, I hope.
1875
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:19,960
OK.
Absolutely.
1876
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:21,320
Bye bye all.
Right, Bye everyone.
1877
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:21,760
Good night.