Episode 98: Shlomo Slatus

0:01 Welcome to another episode of Come Together. So depending what the the tone of the conversation I want to be, I'll start off the podcast with either an introduction or just start talking like this like myself. So dude, tell me about yourself, another bit about yourself, and then I'll kind of dive and we'll dive into it. Where to start? Where to start? What's your name? Where you're from. My name is Shalamie Slatus from Savannah, GA.

0:41 Oh, I'm sorry. I want to clarify, sorry real quickly that I'm happy to discuss a lot of Jewish topics, but I want to clarify when we'll talk about them, not just to refer to them in the Hebrew Jewish term, but he was expressed whole concepts possible, yes. So from Savannah, GA. I'm Savannah, GA, born and raised there. My father's the rabbi there since I'm a baby. Yeah, I'm 44 years old. You're in school. Went back to school. Which is awesome by the way. Where do you want to start now? I don't know backwards. I don't know wherever you want. Why don't you tell? Why don't you tell me about why you, why you went back to school? It was it, was it a hard choice? Because I know that it seems a lot more daunting to me now that I'm almost 30 to decide to go back to school, even for a advanced degree.

1:30 You know, I just feel like, when am I going to do it? How am I going to have the time? What's, what's going, you know? First of all, you there's time. It's a couple hours. It's a couple hours. A week. Yeah, I mean, if I did a double program which is up finishing in 18 months, suddenly I should have taken three years. So which means I just have a double load. So it's instead of like 2 hours of classes a week or three, it's 6-7 hours a week. Of classes that you're that you're, that you're in zoom and in in the class. For yeah, and then papers and whatever you know. How's the education? It's good. Yeah, I mean, Yeshiva University, Wurzweiler, it's great. It's a little bit woke.

2:11 Be honest, really. I mean social work. I went for social work. So the reason I went back to. Social work, I've heard it's a very woke industry it. Is like, that's, that's why it's, I challenged one of my teachers one time and I said like, you're not making therapists, you're making activists, you know, like that's, that's what I felt like everything was about. What were they doing? What were they doing to? It was like cultural diversity and racism and cultural sensitivity, which, which is important in therapy. Like you have to know who you're talking to. If you're talking to a black person from from the hood, you have to understand where he's coming from, what his life is like, how it's totally different than your life.

2:52 And to be able to relate on that. Yeah, I think you could. I think you could. But sitting there for 5-6 hours going through how terrible the United States is and how racist they were, it's just systemically racist. And we're all, if you think about it, a little bit racist in our heart. You know, it's and that's, I remember I heard like a comedian one time. It was like, racism is like hunger. Like sometimes you're hungry, but not right now. I could have a cheeseburger. Cuts you off in traffic, all of a sudden you're hungry. So. It's one of those things, like I have nothing against any other race or culture or anything, but you know, growing up in in rural Georgia, like black people did not especially if you went on the wrong side of town to MLK Blvd. It was like you had you needed a police escort to get out of there.

3:50 Really. So in Savannah, in Savannah, downtown Savannah. How far was that from where you were growing up? 15 minutes. By walking or driving. Driving. It's pretty far removed in terms of like I. Was like Baltimore's like that also. Yeah, great bring for Rockaways like that. You know. Like, you go for a after beach 9th, you go to beach 11th, Yes, You're in the hood, yeah. So Manhattan is like that, I mean, depending on different parts of it, yeah. But how I view it is like it's, it's, I don't, it's not that I don't like black people at all. It's, and I don't know what we're talking about racism, but like that's. OK, we can talk about it because it's hard to do social work I. Think I know the best people I know are black people like my my father shul.

4:30 There's three black families who are Maguire. They converted. That's cool, really. And they are like, they're the best. They're the best people I know. Really. They're better than anyone who is from, from from birth white. They're so sincere. They're sort of genuine. They'll do anything for anyone. Do you think because it takes, it takes so much authentic enthusiasm and passion and love for it that you wouldn't be converting otherwise? Like you're making a serious commitment if you're black and you're and you're and you're joining a like a typically stereotypically, especially in America, enormously white community because even if they're not white to Arabic, you know they're not I. I would think that, but but like one of the guys, he's he was a, he's an ex Marine.

5:13 Yeah, actually he doesn't like that. You're never an ex Marine. You're, you're always a Marine. He was a Marine. Yeah, so he's a Marine like he was. Finished his service. 80s he went into Granada like that, those Marines. His wife was the one who wanted to be McGuire. He had zero interest. And he went along for the ride. Not only did he go along for the ride, but he's like Frommer than she is really. Once he started learning Torah, once he started like go to classes and everything. Like he loves it. He loves it. It's really interesting. And so that's, I mean, it's not, it has nothing to do with the color of the skin. I think it's cultural. It's just it's culture and the code. The black culture is no fathers, you know, they grow up on the streets. Education isn't important to them.

5:55 It's like kill or be killed that that's the mentality there. And honestly if and so it's not about their skin color, it's just if they would be in a different if they would. Be. Taken out of the hood and put somewhere else, they'd be the best people in the world. So, and I honestly, if you think about it like I've thought about this, it comes from Noah, right? Noah had shame. Khaman Yothas, right? His three sons. Kum is the father of black people. His curse was that his skin turned black, right? That's a rash, he says. And if you look at what Kum did, what did Kum do? He had no Busha. He had no shame and he had no respect for his father.

6:36 Right. In the incident where Nah was, yeah. And then there's different extensions, different. There's different interpretations as to what it meant that he. He may have castrated. Him castrated, he may have. But like the simple understanding is that hum saw. His father naked. Father naked, which is not. And not only like shame in Yufus right? Being the father of all Greece and Rome and and. Yufus is derived from the word yuf. Yuf, right? Literally from beautiful. Yeah, so become his response was like oh shit dog look how stupid right and he's like he went out and got them to look so those two things aren't like almost ingrained in his DNA.

7:19 These kids have no fathers They're it's a father issue, right? They have 0 respect for their father either because they're locked up or they're. You know, statistics is in school, like when you like, when you learn about these community about about about minority communities and stuff like that, do you learn about statistics as to, you know, whole families and complete families, stuff like that? Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy, like they they try to what are the what are the? Communities are like that. None. None. Asians are so family oriented Indians. Hispanic or very? Hispanics are so family oriented that 4 generations living together come. They have no fathers. They're all raised by their Mamas, right? And that's why a kid is called a babe. Like it the mother's called a baby his baby Mama. It's not even a, it's not even a wife. They're all like so many of them are born out of wedlock and that's it.

8:11 If they could just get those two things together, have a little bit of shame, right? They're all like, yo-yo, they weren't like, that's why they make a, they make $1000. It's in their grill and their teeth and they get a chain, right, and they get spinning wheels on their cars. It's a lack of Busha. It's a lack of shame and coupled with the fact that they don't have fathers. Like you don't think that they could be overcompensating for coming from, you know, a modest or poor background that that you overcompensate and the second you get money, you just kind of lose. Like you like I, I know that for example, like I'm never responsible. I'm never responsible by tax returns, right?

8:52 Like I'm never responsible like every every year when I get my tax returns and like some years is more than others, but like it's, it rarely is spent responsible when I get an immediate deposit of cash. I I have like like so you might urge to be responsible you. Might spend it irresponsibly, but are you? Are you spending it in a braggadocious way? Right. Are you bragging? Depends what everyone to see. That's shame. I I don't want to admit that I do, but this I'm sure I certainly do. We all do, you know, we all wear, we all, we all wear a watch that that that that that costs more than within any watch needs to cost and we all drive cars that cost more than cars need to drop cost and OK. But you know, and like, you don't see that there's a different level like.

9:35 But I I do by the way, I'm not. By the way, yes, I just think, I just think towns and these Jewish people were driving around like right when they made their deal. Credit card debt. They have a Bentley now. They have like the newest Rolex or whatever it is, Frank Mueller watch and Gucci and everything. Yeah, I think that's that's also it's it's a it's I, I call that, I say you're Schwatzer rich. Like you, you make some money and like you display it for everyone. It's a lack of sneeze. That's. Why, by the way, when everyone, all these rabbis who are like saying goat sneeze sneeze TS your wife was her thing. Above her elbow, below the elbow in the middle of the elbow, knee up. Above the knee, lower and like they're and meanwhile half of these guys who are saying this live in these crazy mansions.

10:20 Dr. these crazy girls. The terrace is Mahatsney Lechas. Can you? Say that it means that you should walk with God, with sneas, with modesty, which means don't brag, don't show off everything that you have. And it goes for women and it also goes for men. And it's financial. And it's also bodily hypocritical that like, these yeshivas are taking all this money from the biggest like lack of sneeze, lack of modesty, people who have the they show off the most. It's almost like it's the opposite. By the way, it's also, it's also, it's funny, I don't know, I mean, you know, part of I have this experience all the time and I actually have a back and forth fight about it with myself inside. But there's a concept in Judaism called miser and you give 10% of your, of your income to, to charity. And you know, especially this particular times, those campaigns going around where you know, like my Chabad that I went to camp in Binghamton was incredible. They, they changed so many people's lives. They were such as they are they, they, they are an overwhelming source of inspiration, good values, grounded people. And they serve as like, like the amount of people that impact relative to how many people they have on step, excuse me, how many people have on staff there is monumental. And you know, so I get, I give a donation and, you know, and there's always that little check box mark, you know, do this anonymously or not, you know,

11:52 like you always have like a little like, you know, conflict inside, like, you know, do I do I market anonymous And like, no one knows that like I gave 34500 dollars, 1000 dollars, $1500, whatever it is. Or do you, you know, do you let people see that that's what you're giving, you know, and, and it's really interesting that it's such a temptation, you know, because. It's a huge temptation. I know and I was, and I would say I'm not that kind of guy and I'm not that kind of guy, but I'm still tempted to be that kind of guy. You know, like it's it's we. I think that there's a natural desire to kind of display prominence and. I think it's everybody has a natural desire to be somebody, right? We all want to be somebody and I, I honestly think if it's, that's like why there's so much depression and anxiety in today's world is because we've been taught that the way to become somebody is. To be a celebrity.

12:42 Rich is to be have money and luxuries and that's it. Like you watch a Lexus commercial, you watch a a Breitling watch commercial. It's like this is the epitome of you've made it, yet there's so many ways to be somebody. You could do hesed you could be a teacher, right, right, you could and you're actually somebody. If you're a teacher, you could affect thousands and thousands of lives. If you're a good, you have to be a. Martyr because you're going to make any money. But then like, how are you going to live? I can't. If I was a teacher, I would. I wouldn't be living here. But that but you have to recalibrate what does it mean to live like do you need? To afford a home, yeah. So you need. You need a house. You need a house and you need a vehicle. By the way, I was thinking about this.

13:22 By the way, I was thinking. So where I teach, it's a Jewish, it's a Jewish private school. So there's not there's none of the public school benefits right you. Don't get insurance or anything. I think full time employees get insurance. I'm part time but anything full time gets 4O1K match. Maybe, but you don't get a lot of the benefits from the public school from the public system, which is fine. But I know a lot of teachers, for example, will work full time in public school, you know, and then they'll come teach 3 or 4 classes in the afternoon, make an extra 2030 grand. And what they're doing is they're making 70 grand or 80, you know, 6070 grand on a under salary. They got their pension, they got their, they don't pay taxes because they're, you know, they're teaching, they're public school teachers.

14:06 And then, and so, and then they're making an extra $20,000 teaching in the afternoons. They're making $90,000 with benefits, a pension, 4O1K match and no taxes. That's the equivalent of making 130 a $140,000 if you're anywhere else, you know, like and you know, so, so these people are living. I I think that you really could ostensibly make a good living being a teacher. As I have a good living, but like when you say martyr, I think you have to rethink because we all want to be rich. We all want to have all the luxuries. We want to be able to go to Israel for Unsuckus and stay at the King David. By the way, I don't know if that's even the case. No. I don't. That kind of stuff doesn't tempt me, but the kind of stuff to me, money is a vehicle to being able to do what I want to do. And I don't want to not be able to do what I want to do. Now it happens to be I'm a pretty simple person, right? What I want to do is I want to teach, I want to play guitar, I want to do a podcast and I want to go for jogs and have a small community that I'm close with.

15:03 You know like that's those are my value. That's that's it. You go back to simplistic. Bass. I'm exactly I'm exactly where I'm exactly where I could be here for the rest of my life. Much build on what this is right now and be the happiest person on the planet. So then you're good. Yeah. Yeah. And then there are things I like, right. I like craft beer. I spent $30 on a on a bottle of of beer that's smaller than a bottle of wine, which is ridiculous, you know? But it's barrel aged in bourbon barrels for two years and it's 14% with caramel and chocolate. And I think it's delicious, and it's one of those things I love, but they're allowed luxuries. And that, but that's a luxury that like you're not and about to be.

15:44 Disciplined. I'm very hard of speaking to everybody. You know you're not. Yeah, Yeah, it's not. A show off thing. That's that's what I'm saying the. Showing off this is, is like what's making everybody miserable. Yeah, social. Media there's looking at what everyone. Else has and the richest people and these are what's they're taking from. So whatever. I mean back like, anyway, back to school, yes. Back to school, not racist. I just I truly you think that you. Think that it's not you don't like me just to change. The whole dynamic of black culture, like I've been following this woman, it's called the Compassionate Prison Project. And she goes into the hardest lockdown, craziest lockdown prisons for murderers. And she goes into the yard and they all stand in a circle. And then she reads, she reads off a list of things that could cause childhood trauma.

16:36 And it was like if your mother ever beat beat you until you had marks on your body. Step forward. And like. Half of the hundreds of people were in step forward. If you grew up in poverty and didn't know where your next meal was going to come from, step forward and she goes and she's like, guys, you're all traumatized and trauma that the the effects of trauma cause you to have like this distorted view on reality and that if you would have just you're so hardened because of your trauma and if you'd be able to work on your trauma, do you think that's true? Because I feel like a lot of people would say that's already woke. I don't think it's true about either saying. I don't think so either. It's such a fine line, but I think that a lot of people would push back.

17:18 You don't understand the. Ghetto in the hood that's I don't by. The way it's so bad. It's so bad. It's I grew up in the life that you could ever imagine. Right. I grew up in the safest middle, upper middle when I when I, when we start, when when my parents moved in, it was just straight classic middle America. And then became more, more wealthy over time. But this is Muncie. Yeah, and Wesley? Hills, yeah, but yeah, parents bought their first house for $200,000 under foreclosure, but it was a four two in a neighborhood that no one lived anywhere near. And my mom hated it for the first five years and they were living there. That's all Jewish, right? And now it's all. Jewish, yeah, but it took, but it took 30 years of them living there. I mean, how many people are devoted to anything for 30 years, you know, in in anything.

18:03 Hanging. In their careers and their marriage and their you know, in, in religious affiliation and in any, in any commitment. I mean, people are committed to anything for 30 years. It's. True. You know so. I feel like if you stick around long enough, then then I, I, I feel like the key to success is always, has always been to just be disciplined enough to hang around for a little longer than everyone else. And like everyone where everyone else calls it quits and like, you know, like they just like, OK, I'm done, I'm done, I'm done. Like if you just go another day longer, another, another episode, more, another, you know, another, another call and one more call, one more, one more sales call, one more hustle, one more. I'm so tired. I'm just go watch that last dish. Like that's all the difference in like your marriage and your wife wakes up and like the sink is empty as opposed to being full, You know? I mean, that's, that's true.

18:48 It changes. Everything. So like, I feel like the people that are the most successful at anything just kind of outlast someone else. So. So I don't think it's woke. To say that, I don't think so either. By the way, I just think that people would say that and I, I would like, what do you think? What would you say to them? I don't know. I think I think you're right, but what do you what would you think people calling them? Victims that they're like need extra special treatment, right? But like, they need to be taught to, they know they have. Trauma. They need to, they need to, they need to taught how to. Everyone needs to be taught the tools that it takes to be a person. They have no resiliency and that's a trauma I think to me is. In Hebrew, there's a lot of. Words for a fool, right? There's like a kasil, there's a shota, there's and one of the words is pesi.

19:35 OK, right. Like Torres Hashem tamima mahkimas pesi, which means it makes up pesi, which is a fool wise. But pesi. Rabbi Hirsch, if you look at him, comes from the word pito. Sudden, right? Sudden the same. The same it's the same root. So like all words you know there's from the same they have certain roots that that have certain contexts and if you root for. This word of a fool, which is why I think the more accurate translation would be an addict or somebody meaning they're startled. They're thrown. Off kilter from the smallest thing, right? And wow, there's such an interesting.

20:16 Way of putting it and that's why it says. Shomer Pasayam Hashem into Hillam, which of Moshe Feinstein said about smokers in the 60s when he asked could you smoke? And he said these people are it's shomer pasayum, Hashem will guard the fools. But pasayum from that same word pasi, which is an addict, meaning Hashem is going to, he'll protect you from your addiction or whatever he was saying. But it's a trauma response. It's not having resilience. It's being startled easily and triggered, right? And that's what happens. I've been in, I've been in the ghettos and you look at someone wrong you. Make eye. Contact with one of these guys and you hold it for too long, it isn't to them. It's a sign of disrespect and they will kill you. It's a threat.

21:04 It's a threat to them, you know? And it's just like, that's why I was always taught like, first of all, like keep your eyes down #1 like if you have see someone just like put your eyes down immediately. It's a sign of respect, right? And always be like, if someone steps up on you, put your hands up like this. Like open hands. Yeah, So that you're not anything I'm. Not a threat. Like, come on, come on. Yeah, I don't want to. Do anything right? But it's. Showing you how bruised only people people who respond like that have the biggest bruises of on their egos right? So hurt. So it's it would. Take a long time. I don't think he's just be woke the answer. I think woke may have diagnosed the problem properly, but they don't have the right prognosis. They've never had the.

21:49 Right, I know fortunately, by the way, because the only the only reason I say unfortunately is because I would love for any answer like I don't care where it comes from, you know, I mean, it all started from. Jews, by the way, every single social worker who's ever and therapist is starting from Freud, they were Jewish. It's compassion. This whole field is Hesed and Rachmanis. It was interesting. Because so Hesed, which is translated as charity, if taken too far, turns out to be one of the most like kindness taken too far turns out to be one of the most dangerous thing. Yeah, there's actually funny because I mean, from a from a Jewish lens and from a Torah lens, the the Torah used the word has said when referring to someone sleeping with their sibling.

22:31 And that's the it's the greatest. Kindness you can do, right? Yet it's the. Most. Disgusting thing you could do, but that's what they. Always say in the 8th chiam, the tree of life, in the Kabbalistic, whatever you want to call it, chakra, right? Yeah. You have chesed that's tempered with gvuro, right? Gvor is the opposite of chesed. What's Gvora? Restraint. Gvora. Gvora is strain is, they say, strength. But it's not really strength. So what's the translation? What's the context restraint? It's withholding. It's with. It's restraint despite being prompted. Like. You know, because it doesn't take, it doesn't take strength to be resilient when there's no pressure, but it takes strength and your kids pissing you off to not yell at them and talk nicely today. So that would be the Gvorah that you're talking about. That's the translation but too.

23:19 Much of Gvorah and that's why they say that Avraham was cassette. Yeah, right. But I said without tempering makes his one of his his bad seed. Was you small? Yeah. And you small is is they have this, you know they have 70 virgins right when they die and it's it's all like this Hasidic, it's this kindness based out of control. How is that based? How is that out of kindness though? I mean. Ishmael it's it, they're, it's a very the it's, it's, it's very sexualized. Like they even say they have, they have polygamy, they have a lot of wives. Their entire martyrdom is based on 70 virgins. It's just this like, I mean, how to explain kindness in yourself well, because.

24:06 Because I so the root, I know that the root of kindness, right, in terms of judge to the is the root word of it is kin, right, which is like family. And you treat, when you treat someone with kindness, you're treating them as though you're your kin, right? As you're caring for them into in such, in such a way that this is the way that you would treat someone that you authentically love. And if you treat a stranger with kindness, why are they so baffled by that? Or why is it mean so much to people? It's because you got treated like a relationship that you didn't do much to deserve. And it's that kind of throws you off tilt a little bit. You're like, why are you being like, I don't know you, you don't know me. Why are you being so good to me?

24:47 Why are you treating me like I'm one of your family and one of your own? You know, and it kind of all goes back to that way that, you know, we're all tribal in the sense that we grew from, you know, from little tribe communities of little tribes, you know, and, and that's how we learn to interact best. And that's what we do all the time, you know, And like, it's funny, I was talking to my students about this. You know, I'm trying to explain to them People travel with everything and like there's just different degrees of how back how far out you want to zoom, you want to go to a country or tribal about the fact you're American. You tribal about your religion, you tribal about the fact you're Jewish or Christian or you're you're you're a Muslim, you're a Hindu or whatever it is. And then even within those factions, right, you got, yeah, you got families, you got different interpretations, you got different, you got, you got different sex.

25:32 And then even those sex within one another treat each other badly, right? Because we're all tribes within a tribe. And so, you know, so that's why it's such a shock and that's why I think kind of such a hard thing to, it's such a hard call to action for a lot of people because we're asked asking people to go beyond their nature where we're used to looking at people that we don't familiar with as a potential threat and to not treat them that way. And then how do people respond with that, You know, to that now I, I, I, I'm in the business, I'm in the sales and business world. And one of the first things my dad told me when I started working with him was like, never, ever underestimate the amount of liars and thiefs and chiefs that are out there. Because these guys will be your best friend for 10/15/20 years. And they'll ask for credit one time, a hookup one time until, you know, like, I've known you for so long, I'm not going to screw for this and disappear, you know? And that's the end of it, you know? And he told you that.

26:28 He did tell me that's. Important. It's real. I mean, I've been so screwed. Before have you? Yeah, I, I, there are customers now where what I'll say to them, like, for example, the, the best, the most common line I hear from a customer is, oh, you give me a good deal, I'm going to come back and I buy, you know, I'm going to buy a ton of equipment from you, you know, and I'm like, how about this? I was like, I'm going to give you a total of, of a 30% discount. The first deal that you buy for me is 100% of his regular wholesale value. The next time you come to me, it's, it's, it's, it's 15% off. The next time you come to me is 20% off and you're going to get that 30% off the same that, you know, the same way whether you like it or not. Hey, yeah, sorry. You're going to get this, you're going to get 30% off, but I want to make sure that you're going to come back to me. It's not coming off the top, you know. Yeah, I mean, I, I didn't think about it. That's what mortgage companies do, right? You pay, you pay, you pay your, you pay your interest before you pay your principal, you know, because they're like, let me, let me just make all that cash first and then, you know, all the money first.

27:24 So, so after, so, so you grew up in Georgia in Savannah. When did you when did you leave Georgia for the first time? I was. I went to Shiva. There was no Jewish high school there, so I went to Shiva when I was 14. I got sent to that Philadelphia. Was it hard? Leaving home, yeah, it was hard to be. On on a lot of levels because like I I was most of my friends growing up were not religious. I went to a mixed school. My girls in my class until 8th grade and then I went pretty uncommon for. Rabbi's son. I mean, there's nothing. Else there, right? I mean, I only had two girls in my class, right, You know? And yeah.

28:05 But. It was, it was hard like going to all boys school and it was like this shivish mentality that I had no understanding of, right? Which honestly seemed like it was almost like a different religion to me. It feels like it, right? I sometimes think. That I still think that. Well, I, I, I don't even think that it isn't, you know, but I mean, it is. It is the same religion, but. It's. In that, in that returning that tribal idea, it's just as like, I think more people treat it like a tribe than they do like, like being under one umbrella.

28:48 OK. But I don't have AI don't have a problem necessarily with with the tribalism of it, but it's it's more of like the external judgement of it. Yeah, it's like they they need to, you need to look a certain way, you know, either with like pay is or, or like shaved hair or white shirt, black pants, sits is hanging out or and they need to be able to like look at you and be like, OK, Jack, you're good. You know, it's almost like an external immediate judgement. And they don't go into like the depth of who you are. It doesn't matter. It's just you have to look the part and there's nothing about like. There's very little. About the depth of who? Someone else? So I. Don't know it's like are you there a chakras on time? Are you you have to do all like the the outward things that make you part of that group.

29:36 Wearing a blue shirt like. Wow. It's cool. Yeah. Lucy. Like you can start telling what. OK like I. Don't know so. It was, it was, it was a culture shock. How how long did it take you to get? Used to. How long are you there for? I don't, I don't think I. Ever got used to it? You never got 7 years. I don't think I ever. Got used to it 7. Years is a long time to not get used to something, but you never did you ever feel comfortable in that? Did you get comfortable at a certain point in the sense that like you just knew we were dealing with and like you figured out how to maneuver within that system? Yeah, I mean, I look. Back at it now and I feel like if, God forbid, I was ever sentenced to 10 years in prison, I would totally be comfortable after a few years and go with the ropes, you know?

30:19 But I'd still be in prison. I think a lot of I. Think a lot of life is like that right like people aren't people don't like to change but once you actually once the change happens, we're pretty good at adapting to it right, right. You know, like you wouldn't like, we were very bad at voluntarily putting ourselves in scenarios where we have to change. But then when we do, we do, we do that's. Viktor Frankel's whole whole book may in search for meaning like you ever read that? I've read, yeah. I've read most of it like it's fat like. It's he found meaning and purpose, and he found his groove in Auschwitz. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, we. Could adapt to any situation that may be one of the. Craziest stories of all time, but my point?

31:00 Is it's not ideal. It's not ideal, but yeah, I mean, so you asked me, did I ever get used to it? Did Viktor Frankel ever get used to Auschwitz? Kind of. But he was right. You're. Able to operate within it. But it wasn't, it wasn't the scenario you wanted to be in, right? Right. Right. I didn't understand it. It was just. So which? So you get out. So you get out. You're 21. What do you do? Then my father he he went to Mirror Yeshiva in Brooklyn, which is a. Very prestigious place, right? Yeah, I. Mean it's not as prestigious as Philadelphia, OK. But. Like it was a step down, really. Yeah, from Philly, OK.

31:43 I mean, that's what. They say. But my father was very close with her. Schmuler Birnbaum. OK, he's a close student of his. I was. I was the last son of two older brothers. And he asked me like. Before I go to Israel. If I would go to. Brooklyn and learn for a year under approval. So I did that. It means a lot to your. Dad, that you do that, right? Yeah. It would mean a lot to him that you do that. It does. It made me a lot. And honestly, I did you not want to. I mean at. That point, I didn't care. Like, as long as I was out of Philadelphia, like I really, I really didn't care. Did you fight? To get out of Philadelphia earlier when I was. Younger as in like? Anywhere along those seven, along those seven years at any point, we're like, listen, I just don't like you. How can I go every year?

32:26 And what was the answer? Say it's good for you to be there? Yeah. That's. So sometimes that really is a truth though, like I I so when I was in high school, I went to all boy school for two years that I hated and then I switched to a mixed school and that's not what made me like it definitely had a huge factor because I'm a teenage guy, but. My mom. Fought me tooth and nails to not switch and I wanted to go to this school since 8th grade. So for 8th, 9th and 10th grade, I fought with my mom about it and then eventually she gave, you know, she saw I was really unhappy and she eventually gave in.

33:08 And. I always tell her I always. I've concluded, you know, 10 years later, 15 years later that. She was. Right. To force me to start in that school. And I was right that I should have switched over at some point. But it was. Very important that I started off in a more sheltered, wholesome environment that I was and I was not prepared for the other environment of self consciousness when it came to when it comes to other gender, you know, say, you know, a managing class work while being a while being a social individual, you know, and like I just wasn't, I wasn't ready to and I and trying to fit in right and trying to get social approval, you know, which I spent a lot of time trying to do.

34:02 And if I started doing that since 9th grade as opposed to starting at 11th grade, I think, I think those two extra years, even though I was miserable, were way better for me in the long term then then, you know, then if I had gone my way immediately out of 8th grade, absolutely. Yeah, looking back. I mean looking. Back I could say that like there was there was like Philadelphia yeshiva. It was it was such a strict school like there was nothing. You weren't allowed to have any music, not even Jewish music really, because Bittle Toro, it was wasting time from learning Toro. We couldn't have any books like. Wow, like I remember in. 9th grade I brought Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park and a Garfield comic. And it got.

34:47 Confiscated. I got called into the Mushkieff's office. The principal. Yeah, You know, it was like. And. Like even on Shabbos we weren't supposed, we weren't allowed to have ketchup and mustard on the table. You have to choose which one because both of them is too much desire really. That's how the school was. That's what I'm telling you. The guy was so culture shocked coming from a mixed school. That's so I know, but it was it was so intense. There's really there was nothing, nothing to do in that school and you were in West Philadelphia. Where do? Where do? Where do kids that go to that school and then what do what do they have to do with their lives in America? Really. Yeah, guys, in my class. Are the biggest rabbis now in America? Wow.

35:28 That's why. Is that is. That my mother's like, do. You want you into the school. There's 2000 people that apply every year for ninth grade and they accept 20. She's like, I got you're in. She's like, you'd be, you'd be crazy to not accept this and go, I got you into Harvard. But it's like, what if you go to Harvard and Harvard's just not for you, and you're just drowning in Harvard? Then you leave. You should probably leave, right? But you have a mother who's like, just stay in Harvard. Yeah, because you're in Harvard. Yeah. It opens up doors and your whole life could be different. Yeah. Yeah. So look at that's what she wanted. And looking back at the end of the day, like, I don't think I would have learned. Like there's nothing else I remember being was the learning. Incredible. Do you crazy? Your your were your skills extremely, extremely sharp at that point?

36:11 They still are, yeah. Yeah, that doesn't. Leave you the biggest rabbi. Is it? Doesn't that? Really. Kamara begins. Do you learn a lot? Yeah. I love it. It's like the only every day, yeah. My father. Who's the rabbi in Savannah every day of resume? Yeah, from 12:00 to. One really Kedushan Ben Gamora. She ties this from Shayna Makrinum Ripkayam, size 7,000,000. Like you know these. Have you heard these? I, I I. Heard a bunch of them. I can't. I can't say I ever have learned them. I, I, I, I'm extremely, I, I, I am woefully incompetent relative to so, so many people.

36:54 There's not so many people this. Is I was literally taught how to be a rabbi, like how to be a rabbinic leader. Did you ever? Think did you think you were going to be? No, no, you never wanted to. Be you know what? I always, I honestly like when I was younger, I wanted to go into Kirov. Right, which is outreach. Like I wanted to be very knowledgeable but very down to earth like. Weinberger from Aish. What's his name? Jacob. Jacob Weinberger, Yeah, Yeah. Jacob Weinberger, yeah. Was incredible because what he was so amazing about him was that he was able to take the most philosophically complicated concepts.

37:35 That's what I wanted in challenging concepts and he was able to water to make them accessible to hundreds of thousands of people, the most ignorant people. Have never heard anything. That's what my father does, by the way. Yeah. That's a real, real wisdom, my father. Is he is a Talmud Mavak, which means like the closest student to Rachel Berenbaum and he learned in Kolo until he was 33, became a rabbi in Savannah like my father. I have had rabbis like the head, the head rabbi of the Aguda in Flatbush, who knows my father. He was like, I can't believe your father's still in Savannah. Like your dad could have been the rush of Shiva. Why is there any? Issues because he loves it because yeah, that's.

38:15 He likes doing outreach. And he could take the most complicated sugya, right? The most complicated topic of Gomoro with all the Rashonim and aphronum and present it to the biggest rabbi sitting there. And to like a total redneck who just drove to shul on Shabbos in a Dodge Ram 1500, right? Wearing boots and hats, sitting there, Rabbi. I'm here for Saturday services and he'll understand the concept of like, bug hulken bustle, right? I think that that is the ultimate manifestation of what I could true, Rabbi is agreed, that's what. I wanted to do. I thought I'd be a teacher in Asia. Torah or Saman?

38:58 Yeah. If not. Start my own. Yeah, program stuff like that. So then what? So then so you ended up going to, so you left. So I went to Brooklyn. That's Philly you went to. Brooklyn for a year. So, Brooklyn. Miri She was living in Brooklyn. After living in Philly like it was like. It was like freedom, really. You like? You like Brooklyn? It was like there was. Nothing. There was no demands on you. There was no. You have to also realize in high school in Philadelphia, they shut the electricity got shut off at 11:00 PM. So you you couldn't even have like a lamp on, meaning it was lights, it was military lights out, right? You had to be up at 6:45 for Shockers. It was like. Military lights out. So I remember everything had to be battery powered fans lights, you know, after 11:00 PM till 6:00 AM light, the electricity was off.

39:46 I mean, I think the electricity to the air conditioning heat still worked, but otherwise there was no electricity. So I just remember like New York was like, it was, it was. To me. Relatively, it was so relaxed, you know, and also reptual Mirrenbaum, he was so he was so like open and loving and like the rabbi's who were in Philadelphia. It was like, I mean, reptual Komanetsky was very nice, but they were just, they were, they were already the biggest rabbis in the world, right? They were the Gadoli Adorf. So it's like there was almost this reverence to them. Like you were afraid to approach them even though, yeah, we were talking about. That a little bit. Isn't that weird? Yeah, I. So I didn't like that.

40:27 Like now in retrospect, I should have been like, what am I like, I'm paying tuition here. Go talk to them. I. Know, but it's hard to do when they're on a pedestal. It's hard to do when you're looking when you when you when when they're this larger than life. The reputation precedes them and they're stuff. They're they're literally a stuff of legends, right? Like when you walk around and you and like you hear stories, first of all, there are definitely stories that are absolutely apocryphal about them. You know that you know, they're born and they're born with circumcised or you know that they, you know, whatever you know. And then you have and then you have legitimately treat them, you know, as they are, but like and with the reverence they deserve because they are truly great.

41:11 But it removes and. But I don't even know that they they like they shouldn't be treated as equals necessarily. You know, like they you shouldn't. Be a you shouldn't be afraid to. Approach them but right you. Shouldn't be afraid of them. And that's why, by the way, the trouble Beer and Baum was to me on that same level. But he would approach you what he means really. He'd come up to you and that was what was. Amazing. To me, it was like schmollen Rebelia in in Philly. It was like you have to wait in line. 35. Minutes to maybe be able to talk to them. And then it's like, let me just wrap up my question really fast and it doesn't come out right. Yeah, I'm sure Beer and Baum would Used to come over to me and grab me by my lapels. Right. Like, did you understand the shield?

41:51 Yeah. Did you understand the class? And then he said. Like he just, he made himself approachable. Yeah. So like, I enjoyed that a lot. So it takes a special. Person takes a special person to know when they're. Like, and also they looked at me like, what the hell is this Philly guy? It was like the last year these guys had been together since kindergarten and this was fourth year of college, right? Like fourth year of base Medridge. And they're like, what is this like Philly guy coming and reptual Beerbaum loved me because he loved my father. And he was like very happy I was in the class And like, I think like the guys there thought I was stepping on their toes and that like they felt. Threatened by me. Somehow. I mean, I made a couple of friends there. Is there a way to? Deal with that. What do you do about that? Just I was.

42:34 Friends with like younger guys, yeah, like first year guys. And I was fourth year and I don't know, I found a couple people here and there. And that was for a year in Brooklyn. Yeah. And at this point, had you, you still had your desire to go into into outreach into Kira. I mean, honestly. I'll be you never really knew. What you wanted to? No, it was. It was after those years in Philly. Like I think, I think something inside of me broke. Really. Yeah, it was a long. Time. It was a long. Time, OK, it was just like it was. It was never. Ending, you know, 7. Years. Seven years is a long time. Your life was seven years ago.

43:15 My parents. Were there, my parents were the ones who were telling me to stay there, but they never gave me like, oh, stay for high school. Like I had a couple of friends who came with me from Savannah, really one year younger, two years younger. They were there for high school and they left after 12th grade. But they knew that from beginning to end. And then they went to nary stroll in college or whatever. I my thing was like open-ended, right? Was I going to be there for four years? Five years, 6810? Yeah, No, there's No 10. Max was 8. That's why I left a year early. Wow. But you got out. Earlier, I think earlier. Like. Well, here's a big. Deal I. Know but I think something inside it was just like I just I was like so there's almost like this repressed like living and that's why after Brooklyn I just I like that's a little bit of the.

44:04 Pushback that people have on the more the system. Well, the. More. Well, I think, yeah, it's funny because you don't even call it like, I don't even think it's more to the left or right because I think that. No, I think you're right. People do that. Steen Systems and people just don't like of course that your particular case is extreme right. But I think that a lot of people feel stuck in the world that they're in and they feel like there's no way to get out of it. And like, if their parents are invested in it, then like that's the only choice that they have and there's nowhere else for them to go. And a lot of times they're right because if they go another way, their parents freak out at them. One of the ways that I feel like my parents were great parents were because my, I'm one of six, all of us ended up totally different.

44:50 And I'm like, that's how you know that there's good parenting that like all of us weren't like taught to just be afraid to be the one person that my dad or my mom is, and that all of us were just encouraged to be ourselves. And if so, like my and there were times where I did things, my parents would sit me down and be like, listen, I want you to really think about what you're doing before you do it. But like, we're ultimately not going to tell you you can't do it. You know, we're not going to tell you like, if this is what you need to do for yourself and this is your life and this is what you need. We don't think this is necessarily what's best for you, but you got to do you got to do you know, and and I would take what they said very seriously because of that, because they gave me the freedom, because they said I'm not holding you back, but the vet.

45:31 But if you value our lives in the way that we have chosen, you know, we all the work that we did to raise you the way that we did, then this is antithetical to what we're trying to teach you. And that's a really, that's how my. Wife was raised, she was raised and she, she was like when I met her parents, I was like, you know, they're so open with like they're so they let you do whatever you want. And she was telling me stories as a kid, but she said to me that like. She. She. Felt this connection to them that she never ever wanted to do anything that would embarrass like the family name. You know. That like they've raised me a certain way and like, OK, I might go like here or there or this, but like I'll never do that.

46:15 That would be like, that would be shaming my parents, you know, And I felt like that was really good. It was like a really good upbringing. And it wasn't like, you have to do this. You have to do that. It's like do what you want. But like there's certain lines you don't cross, you know? And, and, and listen, my parents meant well. Like I have great parents done your own. My mother has like Holocaust trauma and I love her to death. Your mother's a Holocaust. Father. Her parents. Her parents, by the way. That gender and that, you know, you can't compare the obviously, but the kids of people that went through the Holocaust have such a challenging way. It's crazy. It's crazy such such a challenge, I realized. My mother grew up with like, with like 0 affection.

47:00 Yeah. Her mother worked 16 hours a day. She had like, nursing homes in Chicago. She was one of the original nursing home owners in Chicago, like all the rich nursing people. No. Like West? Rogers Park West Rogers Park. Nice. Yeah, sure, her. Place is. Buckingham on TUI and it's like a full square block on Tui, which is like the heart of of Rogers Park. OK, That's where like all the shuls and all the restaurants and everything. And she got. All of these like rich nursing home people today, Glenners, Reichenbach's, whatever, all these names she like helped them get started in the 60s and 70s. Really. She started hers in the 50s.

47:42 Wow, your mom did. My grandmother, your grandmother my mom's mom. Wow. That's what she just. She's a key there, Senoro. She said I'm going. To take care of people, she's like, all I saw was death all around me, you know, It's amazing. People from down. It's so ironic that that's the reason why she got into it. She my mother. Grew up thinking, she said. You know, my mother didn't have any grandparents. They were killed. Yeah. And my grandmother told her that all these people in this building are your bubbies and zadies. That's beautiful. Like it? It's one of the most beautiful things that I've heard about. That's how she grew up. So, I mean, my mother has a heart of gold, but she, she, it's like she's trying to do she's. Trying to do what's right, but she thinks it's the right thing, Right, right, right.

48:23 So then so there's a little coldness towards her children and a little bit of demandingness. You know, as an American kid, you know, especially this is like, we're not that far away from being immigrants. You know, my grandmother and grandfather were immigrants. Like, not just immigrants, refugees. So like. My mother grew up there, you know, So it's there's also like generational shift, immigration shift, there's. So the weight that the children of Holocaust survivors carried I don't think is nearly appreciated or discussed enough. My mom is actually. So my mom is the youngest in her family, but also my both my grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

49:04 I think she was 12 or 15 years younger than her next youngest sibling. And she's like, by the thank God that I was the youngest because, because. By the time. I came around her Holocaust survivor parents had already were already dealing with teenagers. She was just pretty much flying under the radar the whole time, right? You know, my aunt and uncle were, were often, you know, being in the 80s, you know, as teenagers doing whatever they're going to do. And she got to do her own thing. But she's like, but I got to but but I would witness their my grandparents, you know, the way that my grandparents would treat my her older siblings. And she was like, you know, there was never the sense of blame.

49:47 It was a sense of like, sadness that this is what their lives had become because of what they went through, You know, like, it was never like, I don't get why you're that way. So that works. For the children of Holocaust survivors, but the children of the children of Holocaust survivors, grandchildren like. Me and you so looking. At if our parents are doing the same thing as their parents, Yeah, yeah, we don't get it. Like we that that's I'm saying it's it's difficult for us. Yes, correct. Because we're privileged. We're more privileged about it. And I hate to use like that word in that kind of sense, but it's true. Like, but we are, we live, thank God, a million times. And whatever you say about, you know, whatever it is about Savannah, it sure is a hell a lot better than Eastern Europe, which I think it's another problem with. The yeshiva systems that I went to at least like they were teaching all my red ribayum, all my teachers were, were European and they were teaching American kids, you know, and I think there was like a little bit of a disconnect and it's like they're you're teaching European style, you know, to American kids and it's like you have to, it's still a problem. In the school system, I think what's the school system is based on the depression system now, like the classroom and the desk lined up in the bells for, you know, in the 40 minute or an hour long class structure they're trying to make you into. Factory workers, right?

51:04 Yeah, Yeah, it. Wasn't meant. I mean, it's yeah, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts. I have a ton of thoughts on the education system, but I would love to. Revamp it, I thought, because I have you. So how? Because it's so because because what happens is toxic system. I know, but it's. So far reaching and the implications what you. Have to go to college? No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's because everything is based on it. What's based on it? Jobs. Jobs What high school diploma? Yeah, you can get equivalency. Like I have a daughter who has a little bit, maybe ADHD, 7 year old. And it's it's when we were in Savannah, she did fine because really small school, very friendly, half the teachers were her aunts or uncles, you know what I mean? And here she's just like in this system and the teacher wants us to medicate her.

51:55 I don't want to medicate her of course. Not. Like if I could, I was like honestly she's not even learning anything in this class. Like she's 2nd grade. She comes home, she doesn't even know the parsha. She doesn't like what do all they're doing is. I've been really flirting with the idea of home schooling. Me too. I've really. Been putting with it and I can't think of many. Especially. Because what I'd want to do is kind of do like a Jewish school part of the day and then homeschool the rest of the day so that the kid gets social good. I think that I think it's a myth about. Being socially, first of all, if you have a, if we can get a group of parents who homeschool and then we're all together good. Or you they hang out with each other after, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you could. Socially, I feel like these schools nowadays, especially to these Jewish schools, like it's almost socially toxic. There's so much bullying, there's so much jealousy. There's so much if you don't think it's good. To learn to navigate that I've I've, I've, I guess, yeah. I think that.

52:54 Resilience is something that's really I think that kids are resilient and I think that resilience is taught at a young age. So let them get. Bullied and let no no no I. I don't mean let them get bullied, but I do think that there's something that, you know, the way that Jonathan Haidt describes it, he was a psychologist at NYU. That's not true. I don't know if he's a psychologist. He's a researcher. I don't know if he's a psychologist but I'm reading his isn't his. Book scattered or no? That anxious. Generation, generation. Yeah, I just got that in. Absolutely. It's, by the way, one of the most important books I've ever read, as my sister told me. Yeah. One of the most important. Books I've ever read as a human being that's not a Jewish book like from my, you know, from separate, like religious, like from most important as like a human being, even though I don't know if you can, right. But let's just say take out Judy for a minute. That's like up there with one of the most important that and to me, The Fountainhead.

53:44 You ever read The Fountainhead? You got it. Like Ayn Rand. Is written in the 50s, maybe even earlier. It was. I mean, I read Atlas. Shrugged. So this. So this is way better. Yeah yeah. What's it called? In my opinion, The Fountainhead. The Fountainhead is pre Atlas Shrugged. She wrote it before that. You can buy an Amazon for 5-6 bucks. Putting in my cart. I haven't, I haven't, you know, I don't read it. I used to love fiction. I haven't read a ton of fiction because I found that I realized that what I liked is storytelling and storytelling with imagination, like coupled to my own imagination. And I realized that I could just read about anything I'm interested in. It doesn't have to be fiction, you know, like there's so many non fiction things that are so crazy and so interesting that I've distracted.

54:31 Yes, I love 12 rules for life. 12 Rules for. Life I love 12 more rules is excellent I I bought his. God struggled with man or whatever. His Yeah, man, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What do you think of it, by the way? I think that he has I, I, he has such good. Insights into Toro, Yes. I was going to say, it's such good, such good insights into into Judaism. It's safer for. Jews called Jordan Peterson Ala Toro and just take all of his biblical ideas. What? What do you? Think the reaction would be to that? I don't know. Because. He's so Christian. He's so Christian. Not really. No, he's not. He is. No, he's not OK.

55:11 I don't think he is even he used to say like he. I don't even know if he he. He he has. He, he, his whole thing is I. Believe in God like it's it's do I believe in. I act as if there is a God. That's what he says. I act I, I act but and I. Also think that there is a guy. I also think that's also missing something to it by the way, of course. But I think he's working things out. I could see him converting to Judaism within a few years. You think so? Yeah, He's gonna find. He does that whole thing with with Exodus. He's doing, he's doing. Amazing things, the things he's finding. The things he's finding are directly to our idea. Like I directly like ancient, unbelievable. Ancient to our. Idea went to one of his things. He was in Miami Beach and I got VIP ticket where I can meet him. OK.

55:53 Did you meet him? Yeah. What was it like? What was he like? It's amazing. I gave him a. Book from Rabbi Torski. Really, Abraham? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Of course, yeah. Yeah, he's incredible and I gave him a book. By Rabbi Sacks which Which? He'll fractured. World, it's one of them. OK, I loved. His books. When I was in college, I saw sex. Yeah, he's amazing. What was the what? Was the, what was the big one, the great divide, the great partnership. So like the great partnership with science and religion. He, he was the first, he was the first big Jewish authority leader in a very, very, very long time to say that science and religion do not conflict with one another and that they're two sides of the same coin. I mean, not really. Well. There was a war.

56:35 Of course, but. That was 150 years earlier. OK. But you said it was? The first icing Modern, more first modern guy. Because there was a certain point. So during the time, during the mid 1800s, there was an attack on religion, right? That's Muskelum. Well, the Melbourne not not judged in. Judaism throughout the world where the world said we have a scientific revolution, we no longer need God and religion. Religion responded by saying if you don't need us, we don't need you, which is a dumb reaction. The reaction should be, wait, why, you know, like what about? And then that's what Jonathan Sack says. He said, you know, the great partnership in the way that he describes it as science is the how and religion is the why. You know, the the science is the how does this work and the religion is OK, Now that we understand how this works, what do you do with it?

57:21 What's the point of it? How does that apply to your life? What's your relationship, Zoar? Talks about The Big Bang. Yeah, Zoar. Systems. Are not good shell or there was a dot of light that Hashem expanded into the whole universe. Yeah. Yeah, the Zillahar. Yes, from thousands of years ago, you know, I was talking about. You know, there was someone, I forgot what the source was. I have to find it for you. But there was a source that. So in Judaism there's a concept called, you know, Mashiach, which is ultimate savior and the ultimate redemption. And then you have the notion of what we call Mahamis Gogumagog, the war of Gogumagog. And apparently there's an opinion. Maybe, I'm sure you know, actually maybe what it is that apparently the war is supposed to be 12 minutes. Yeah, right.

58:04 Nukes. Where's that from? The Ville Nagorn. Said it and how? How? When did when? When did Nicole Hatar? When did when did Ville Nagorn live? He lived in 1700s OK. There was no such thing as nuclear weapons at the time. Go back into Novi. So when he. Says that there's that that that that the final war before the ultimate redemption is going to be 12 minutes and three 250 years before there was nukes, you know, and now we find today we were like and then we have the personal further back. When you read the Haggadah, right before they say figs, Yeah, it says Dom the Ish, the Simros ocean. Yeah, right. You know those three blood. Yeah. Blood, fire, and well, it was Pillars. Pillars of smoke?

58:44 Yeah, but a pillar of smoke is like when we were in the desert. It's called it Ahmud Ha Ashan. A pillar? Yeah. What is Tim Rose? I don't know. I'll tell you. What's? The root word of it? Tamar. A date poem Tim Rose Ocean Oh, like a mushroom. Cloud isn't. That crazy and that's talking about before the template. It's that's talking about that's from Joel chapter. Three. That's from Yoel. Chapter 3 and it says in the future by Gogomagog, there's going to be blood, fire and. These mushroom clouds. Mushroom clouds. Of smoke, Tim Rose, Ashana Tamar. Wow, so.

59:25 All of this and by the way, if you go into yo Joel chapter 3 further, he talks about the Arba. He talks about that there's going to be by Gogomogo, locust swarms with red eyes shooting fire, swarms of locusts shoot with red. This is how he does that. So what is that? Drones. Oh, interesting. Like what? He put to a second century prophet who's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, drones spitting fire. He they look like they look like so. Here's my here's my question that I by the way. So, so I've always been very skeptical. I don't know why, but I've always been very skeptical about, I've always been very skeptical about people that claim that like we're at the end of time, end of days, you know, like it's all coming to a combination because we've been saying that because Jews have been saying that in particular for thousands of years, right?

1:00:14 Like we're always waiting for something to happen, like. Are we are we forcing this interpretation or are we like, how do we? Make sense once the technology once that's what it says once it comes, we can't understand what it means until it actually starts to happen and then you're like you look back and like, Oh my God, that's what's happening. So here's. So here's what I've been getting at. And then I actually, I want, I want to keep on going. I, I want to get back ultimately to, to psychedelics and the fun stuff, right? But we're already, we're already down here psychedelics. Are part of Machias coming? I think so too. But I think so here's what I've been listening like as what I've been thinking about as computing is getting greater and greater, we're getting more what, what's the, the main word that you hear today, especially out of concerned parents, is instant gratification, right? The notion that we get things without having, without having to appreciate what it is that we're getting, right, Aden Right.

1:01:15 Or Garden of Eden, where Adam and Cava, Adam and Eve started was a world without any processes. And the Madras says that like the way that Adam and Cava had Kain and Hevel, Kain and Abel, two people got into bed, four people got off. There was no process of birth. There was no process of, of pregnancy. It was just two people got off the bed. On the bed. Two people got, four people got off the bed. We're living in a. World that's more and more and more that you don't have to do the work in order to be able to get the value of it. But the question becomes, what is the purpose of that? What's the? What is the? For the messianic age, like in the messianic age, it says that we're not going to be able to, we're not going to have to work.

1:01:56 Everything will be done for us, right? With AI and robotics and free. And we're literally not. We're. Going to be the richest. Right, so then and we'll have everything. Provided for so then. The question has to become what's the point of anything? Because we're going to. Learn we're going to we're going to have a God consciousness. Ah, right. The purpose which is. Every reality which is evolution of our awareness of evolution of our traits and what I've been thinking about and everyone is. Becoming more godly. There's a Christian revival revolution going on right now since COVID. You think so? I know so. I followed this stuff because I do notice. That people are more. I think that there was like a 5 and 10 year. Period where? People were afraid to say the name, say the word God, right? Oh God, atheism. 80s and 90s atheism was all the rage.

1:02:40 Yeah, and new age bullshit stuff. Postmodernism. Is what we called it nowadays. Old school God is coming back into play people are looking for God they're because we realize that we. Need meaning. We need the water. We need the why. The how is not enough. The how is not enough exactly. Right, right. So I think that, but I think that. So my theory of what I've been thinking about, it's not even a theory, it's not even flushed out completely, is that when we have this world of but. On what you were saying is I think we are we're coming full circle. We're coming back to the Garden of Eden. I think we are that's. Right. Like look at all the curses, right Chava? Was gonna have pain in childbirth.

1:03:20 We have epidurals, right? Adam was going to have to work the land by the sweat of his brow. We have like farming machinery, factories. Factories. We were going to like all the curses that that that were given are are becoming undone. Women were going to be second class to men, right Java, you're going to undone feminism. We're up to like 4th wave feminism today, which I think it's like with every new movement, it goes to extreme, but it's itself out and like it finally finds itself at the right to Ferris, which is what I was saying at the beginning. You have Cassed, you have Gavura, right? You have kindness. And you have. That is the perfect. Balance of the two, meaning you have to know when to give kindness and when to restrain. So I don't know that we're.

1:04:01 Going to get that balance so soon. I think that we're, I think that what we're exceptionally bad at is balance, but. I honestly think AI is at some point it's going to be so generative that it's going to prove the existence of God. It's going to say we're going to ask Rock 7 point O yeah. But you know what? What is the meaning? Because. It's pilotry. It's programmed by atheists well. First of all, yes, but that's and that's the other. Problem. Right. So here's the thing about this. If the point of humanity and the point of let's say religion as a whole, right, is to elevate consciousness, we have primal, we have primal evolutionary, primitive, reflexive, animalistic DNA. And what we try to do is try to get beyond that, right? Again, you can even say that that whole kindness of conversation we had earlier, right, where you treat a stranger like kin is already beyond that, right? You're you're going beyond billions of years of evolution by treating someone that you've never seen before with a smile and how you doing and that that would never happen because you get killed, right?

1:05:09 I mean, you know that that that's just what the answer is, right? And and so when so I think that when people, I think that, you know, everyone always says that like the days of machetes that are going to come, the days of the quote UN quote, ultimate redemption are going to come. Everything can be very painful or very beautiful. They might be painful because when we're doing these things like AI, we're developing them without coming from the place of. That. Elevated sense of consciousness. We're coming from a place of censorship. We're coming from a place of trying to control a narrative, and power is the ultimate goal. And whereas the opposite should be true, it should be democratized information where everyone has access information.

1:05:50 And it should be that everyone has X-Men, by the way. And the biggest problem that exists today is that there's so much information. It's so hard to even determine what's real or not. It's so there's studies backing up everything. You know, fluoride kills you, makes you Dumber and is the best thing in the entire world. And there's no middle ground. And, and vaccines are the best thing and the worst thing. And there's no middle and you'll never meet anyone that's like, I don't know about vaccines. You know, like if someone says I don't know, it probably means they're against it or it means that they think that they're speaking to someone that's against it. And they don't want to say that they're pro about vaccines. And they're the worst thing in the world, right? You want you want to talk about that? We could talk about that. Let me actually just pause. Have to go to the bathroom. Let's pause here for a second and then we'll pick up to one. We're back.

1:06:34 We got fresh ice for our tequila. Here we go. Yeah. Thank you. Perfect. I'm fine. Was that I had a kid. Huh. Between between Sunday and now what? Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. Had a baby girl, Ariella. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. I was going to ask you. Yeah, thank. God, it was. It was. So you had her right. Here. Yeah, right here. Memorial. Did you just walk there? You walked there? It's amazing to be here. My mom flew in. Wait. So where is she? Now she's she's in search. She's.

1:07:14 Mom's here. And then? My mom, my mom actually went, went, flew home tonight. She was here. I always give birth on Monday night. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy, dude. Your neighbor yet? Yeah, Ariella. Ariella to me, mom. Actually funny because we could, we could wrap up this segment of the conversation with this. I really feel very strongly. That names. Have influence over a personality. And there are also personalities that fit into names, right? And so my wife and I had a bunch of names that we thought about, but we weren't sure about until we actually saw the baby. And we looked at her and she didn't look like any of the names that we had planned out. And I did not want the name Ariela originally. And I was like, but this girl just looks like an Ariela. And like that she looked a little like a little almost like tougher.

1:08:09 And I wanted to give her a name that also would kind of round her out a little bit. And so Tamim or Tamima Tamim is the word means wholesome. It means rounded. And I wanted like specifically like, you know, I don't want to deny her her nature, but I want her to, you know, to be also well-rounded. So funny. My wife is so into that. Is she her? The names there's a whole. Do you have your wife has that book? There's a book. It's an all Hebrew and it goes into the personality traits and characteristics of each name. It's incredible. I'll send you. I get a I get you the link for that. I'm saying like we named. One of our daughters after her great aunt, yeah, her great aunt, she was like, she's a Holocaust survivor and she was like a little bit miserable person.

1:08:54 Yeah. So like, and her name was Sarah. Yeah. So she was like, I kind of want to round. It out with her and so. She named her Sarah Eliza, which is joy. Yeah, it's. Beautiful and it's really and. I'm telling you this name. It's like. Perfect for this daughter. Like, she's 13 years old now. Yeah. And it's like she's just like. She has this like. Serious nature, but like it's almost like a. Like a. Deadpan humor. Yeah, sure. It's just like, it's perfect. It's like by the way. There is, there's such a beauty in that because like that's what like what makes a lot of comedians great is like their ability to have humor about something but serious. Yeah, but, but, but, but have that serious observational power and have that real realism. It's it's it's a real, real skill to make your first kid is a.

1:09:40 Boy, my first son's a. Boy, he's 2. And then my daughter who's four days old. That's awesome. And the whole house feels different. The whole, the whole house feels like there's like just more warmth than life in it. And it it's just like, and maybe this is like romantic, you're coming back and like it's like it's new and like soon it's going to be chaotic and a nightmare and maybe it will be, you know, But that's it. You know, that's you Sign up for. Did you vaccinate? Her we did not yet. Don't do it, man. We didn't do it. We. We we talk about that for a couple minutes. Let's talk about it. I think it's really important. Let's talk about it. Let's dive into it. Tell me what? Tell me So what? What have you? What have you researched? Background. Wise, it's not even about research I all my kids are vaccinated fully OK in in 2017 I I told you this before didn't I, about ibogaine yes let's.

1:10:31 Talk about So where do you want to start from? Vaccines are ibogaine. I mean one leads. Into the other so let's I'm involved in a biotech company to bring Iboga to FD approval OK before that guy so before. Then let's get let's get, let's get cuz let's get this a little bit in in order, but also covering all the topics. So right now you are so. Let's start with let's. Start with addiction. Let's start with with opioids. So. After Brooklyn I basically try to live my life that I missed out from 14 to 22 OK in like 6 months. No in like a. Four year span. OK, fine. It's pretty good. I'm just saying like. I was, I was everywhere, did everything.

1:11:13 Where were you living? Everywhere. Everywhere you were single, I was. Single. OK. And. What were you doing for work at the time? I had. A couple of real estate stuff. I was selling insurance for a little bit, just odds and ends like I didn't need to make a lot of. And where were you living? I was in. Maryland. I was in Jackson, NJ, I was in Brooklyn for a little bit, in the city for a little bit. Which part of the city? Upper. West side nice where? West End. Ave. and 82nd, 82nd sure. That's what do you what's the building called Ours. Was the Mansfield. It's it's the next door. There's another big Jewish building. That's the Jewish building. No, there's a big. Jewish building that's right next door to it, that's very, very popular. It was there was like.

1:11:54 A lot of single stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a whole. Lot from the West side, right? I don't. Know, but like, I was for six months, maybe I was there, yeah. I hated it, by the way. I wasn't. Like going out socially, especially not in the Jewish community. Like I was going to like Pig and Whistle on 33rd and Lexington. Cool. Yeah. I'm. Familiar with that place, by the way. Yeah, like whatever. Like I. What were you? What were you doing at the time? What were you like? What were you in terms of your life? Were you? I was literally just on. Cruise control you were just enjoying. Yourself, I was just. I had. I was just like. What were your passions at the time? What would you enjoy? Would you love? Were you looking for music? Were you looking for? People were looking for music I played. Music. Oh yeah, you're a. Musician I played. Guitar. I was playing guitar all the time with the Red Lion in the village. You ever been to the Red Lion?

1:12:38 No village. I just play guitar. They're all the time. Just like covers or your own song? Yeah, both. Mostly covers my own song. Sometimes I would take songs and put my own words to it. We should jam together. Sometime we should, because I I've never played with another musician before. I mean, I'm not like I know I'm not either. I taught. Myself and I just, I just jammed and like I found good people to do it with. I smoked a lot of weed and then I got into like a little bit of underground drug culture. Nothing crazy. Like I remember I did cocaine once, hated it really. I was like, what was it like? Do you? Describe it so we're out. In Vegas, I've never been tempted. Even by it. Well, I wasn't.

1:13:19 I would. Never was either, but I'm in Vegas one night. So I also, I used to love rap. I used to love like Nas and Tupac and Biggie and and N.W.A and and Wu Tang. Like I loved them. Like I knew mom was like their songs were Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Eminem. Came on the scene and that was that was. An explosion, right white dude? Like and he was so fast and his rhymes were like double, triple rhyming cadence schemes, you know, like while he was putting. Out songs, everyone was getting blown away every, every time. Crazy, yeah. Crazy he never he revolutionized rhyming schemes like people like nowadays. Now it's normal but like. She's the father. Of it, yeah, I mean he's. Like a rhyme.

1:14:00 Like he would say a a murderer rhyme, right. One word at a time. So he's rhyming murder. Yeah. Murder rhyme. Word time. You never heard of a mind as perverted as mine? Yeah. Redid. That night, Dylan did a lot. Of that, Springsteen did a lot of that, but I don't. Doing it in such a rapid fashion and like it was just. It was such a good and his Beats by Doctor Dre were so good. Anyway, so I'm at the House of Blues. We're I was with my cousins. We used to party like crazy. I was never a gambler, but they'd love to gamble. So they got comped at in Vegas at the Mandalay Bay. But it was Mandalay Bay, the hotel building when was.

1:14:43 It in 90s no this. Is 2004 five 2004 it got comped Michael Douglas suite at the Mandalay Bay the hotel meaning he was a crate like I used to see him drop he used to lose 2030 grand in a Michael Douglas. No, my cousin. Oh. Gay like he was. So that's crazy. It was called the Michael Douglas Suite because that was his suite that he. Gotcha, gotcha. He was like. Almost a full floor on like not the penthouse but like 5 How did he do? Is he a good? Gambler or is he I? With they're always. Liars. Gamblers are liars. So like you can never play he. Always used to give. Me, all the guys who used to go with, I was the guy who held their ATM and debit cards. Yeah, at the beginning of the night. Oh, interesting.

1:15:28 So that they went. I didn't gamble. Yeah, they knew. They were like, don't give it to us. We're going to be coming to you at 3:00 in the morning asking you when you take out money and don't give it to us, we're going to rule. Did you? Give it to them or no? No, no good for you. Yeah, it's really it's. Black eyes. Really. You're? Drunk. 3:00 in the morning, it's my fault. Good morning. Give it to me like dude, you told me not to give to him not giving it to you. How far good for you? My friends, these are my. Some of them are cousins. Yeah, yeah, it. Was such a. Degeneracy, by the way, it's so, and I'm looking up now, I always see this freaking the Hard Rock. Like Hard Rock? By the way, it. Destroys so many. People's lives. I don't know if you gamble really, but like, oh the the. I don't gamble gambling. Destroys lives worse than anything else, and it's.

1:16:11 I don't gamble because I'm scared. Me too. I took my wife to Vegas a year and a half, almost two years ago. My my grandmother lives there part time and she has a lot of connections over there. And she hooked us up with a room in the the Aria next door to the Venetian. And and I show, I show my wife how to play craps, right. First thing she does, she wins 100 bucks and I'm like, we are golden girlfriend. This is great, you know, and we don't play again for two days. You're like, and we took that 100 bucks. We spent, we spent it on tickets to a concert. Chainsmokers are playing in it. Had residency in the hotel. Yeah. So we spent 100. We spent 100 bucks there.

1:16:53 And I'm like, OK, love, now that we're up, you know, like, you know, like, we're up, you know, like you're up. You win. You, you, you know, the house money is yours. You're the Conqueror. You know, you, you, you're staying in this beautiful hotel for nothing. And they, they just gave you 100 bucks and a couple of free tequilas. And I was like, and for two days, I held myself out for a day and a half. I helped myself out from not going back. And then before we left, I was like, come on. I love you know how to play. Preps Yeah, I. I played. I played a couple of times. OK, let me. Know how to play the It's a fun. Game it's, I'm extremely, I'm an extremely conservative guy in terms of, in terms of the sense that I'm extremely risk averse and I don't like to like a guy value my money. And I look at, I look at it like the wreck Exchange for something that I could be getting.

1:17:34 So like 100 bucks in my bank account equals 5 great beers that I like at a brewery and like, you know, and the Uber back and forth and like, I'm very happy for $100 to be worth that experience, $100 at a craps table where it's gone in 3 minutes and I'm, and I walk away and I'm like, where'd that go? It's not a good feeling. I, I, I, I, I, it's, and it happens more often than not. So I'm I'm not. Which by the way, I. Think I was saved. The reason I'm not a gambler is I was 18 years old and we had an off shop is from Philly. Yeah, right. And and I I couldn't go to Savannah. It was like too expensive or whatever. And I went to one of my friend's house in who lived in Elkins Park, like Northeast Philadelphia, and he was like, yo, Saturday night we're driving down to AC to Atlantic City.

1:18:21 It was like 45 minute drive in Philly. And I was like. OK, You know, I went with him and I think it wasn't, no, it was blackjack. And he explained to me how to play blackjack, you know, trying to get 21 and whatever. He was like, I'll sit next to you. And I remember I had like saved up throughout these Chevy years, like, I had like 500 bucks, $550, you know, yeah, like my savings. Yeah. And. And I brought it. I brought it. I was like, OK, we'll try. I, I. And he was telling, he kept telling me like double, like I lost. And I was like double down. I lost all my money in like 1520 minutes. Yeah. And. You never want to do it again. I just remember. Like this is the worst thing in the world.

1:19:03 Like this is so awful. Like all like years and years of me saving 50 bucks here, 20 bucks here's 50 bucks here. It's gone, it's gone. And I I read. I read an. Article that I don't know that I necessarily 100% agree with that said that a lot of times gamblers have an addiction to punishing themselves really, and that actually losing is like part of what it is, a cutter. Feel like you deserve? It like you feel like it's like those people like. Themselves. You're a freaking. Loser. You're an animal. You're an idiot. And like and like almost like we have the and I don't know if I buy it necessarily. You know, I don't know if I necessarily 100%. I do believe there are people that put themselves in like challenging and pleasure come.

1:19:48 From the same part of the frontal lobe. That's why cutters peak, peak girls who, like, cut them feel. Yeah. It's also, it's like they get pleasure out of the pain. Yeah. Yeah. Pain and pleasure are at the same spot in your frontal lobe. It's interesting. So anyway, I was in the I was in. I was in the Mandalay Bay. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. So you're. Having the right time. So you're having the right time for these four years. The Edds. No, no, by the way, this what we're talking about. This is my this is what all my podcasts are like. OK, but I mean I'm in the. Mandalay Bay, the hotel my cousin we got comped to have, you know, where like they rope off the front and it was the House of Blues, OK, which is in the lobby there and the roped off table service and they had Redman and Method Man from Wu Tang Clan. We're putting on a concert.

1:20:35 Oh, that means the Wu Tang Clan was a rap group in the OK OK gotcha. And it was like 7 black dudes and two of the main guys was one guy's name was Method Man and one was Red Man. OK, they're still rappers today, OK. So they. Were by themselves putting on a show and I, we were sitting right out front and it was like an empty house. And I I remember after it was like in between sets we were drunk as can be. And my cousin was like, slimy you should go up there and rap. You're better than them, right? OK. And he said that do you? Know how to rap? Yeah, OK, he said that. Really loud and are you a Kitty? That's an A.

1:21:19 Raccoon. That's a raccoon. That's a huge raccoon. Yeah. He's how he just fell out of that tree. Yeah, yeah. So he's like, you should get up there and rap. You're better than these guys, right? They heard him say. That heard him say that. And they're like, yo-yo, White Bull, You think you're better? He's like, get up here. So I knew a rap from 1996 that Wu Tang Clan, their band brought in this Jewish guy and he sang a Holocaust rap. OK, you. Knew that. And you knew that rap. Yeah, it was. Like Reuven Ben Menachem, yo, my own blood dragged into the mud in my house. So, you know, it was like create. Like, I remember it back then, yeah. And it was about the Holocaust.

1:22:03 And I got up. There and I, I, I was like, give me a beat, right? I was like, give me a beat. He's like started the beat and I did the whole thing. And I'm. And both of them were like, yo, dude, this white boy, this white boy could spit. It was something like that, right? Very impressed by it. Afterwards they finished their set and they came. We were like only people in the VIP section, right? With like, those red velvet ropes, Nobody. Could come into our. Section we had table service and free booze and like yo-yo, yo, where you guys? And my cousin, by the way, was like he's like he he wasn't starstruck. He was just like, who the fuck are you?

1:22:44 You know, like he was he would be like anyone if you met the Queen of England, like who the fuck are you? Get out of here. So he he was like acting like that to them. Yeah, people like that, right? Those guys. Liked it? Yeah, they liked it. And they're like, they're like, yo-yo, you guys got to come hang out with us and all bitches later, right? In. Our in our room, we're staying here OK my cousin's like no, no, no you need to come to our room, he said he. Said he said it to the to. Method Man and Redman, right? And they're like. What, you mean your room? He's like, we're in the Michael Douglas suite. He's like for real. So he's like, OK, we'll meet you. That we had nicer room than them, right? Anyway, they're like, OK, we'll be there in an hour. And we, we go upstairs, we're like pouring drinks or whatever. An hour later we get a knock on the door. It's like.

1:23:36 Eight, I mean eight. They must have been hookers. I mean these black hookers like Hoochie, you know what I'm saying? Nothing. They come in and Method Man and Redman come in after them, and one of them was carrying this glass square mirror like a mirror with this like little mountain of white powder, No. Way they come in. And Method Man is like, aye, aye. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is good. This is a good crib. This is a good crib, man. Yo, shit, Look at that view. It was like, because we have the whole floor, you know? Yeah. So they put. It on the bar and you know, at that time, like I had, I smoked weed a little bit, you know, a lot, whatever. I took Adderall a few times, you know, we took a Percocet. I was not 2.

1:24:25 Different compositionally from coke, from folk, right? That's what my. Cousin convinced me. So method they all like. So the girls, like, cut up, you know? Yeah. And then method was like, yo, brah, whatever. I don't want to say my cousin's name. He's like, yo, B, Yeah. He's like take a hit, you know, And my cousin did it. He's like, he's like this. And Method Man was like, this is the best Colombian shit you will ever find in your life. And my cousin was like, this is this is amazing. He's like this. He's like, I've never. It's so like another guy who was with us did it and the Method Man did it and one of the girls did it and then Redman did it and like, yo-yo, yo, rapping white boy. Come on, come on.

1:25:12 Right. Yeah, I was like. Yeah, I'm not. It's. Cocaine like I'm not. What is it? So oh man. I'm so tentious thinking about it. I'm so tentious thinking. Just got it. He's like, yo-yo, just take, man, OK? He's like, what do they take? What do you think to say no to him? It was like I. Could have said no, but you know, he commenced. He's like just take a teeny bump. He like cut the line in half, right. And I remember going, he gave me like the straw thing and I went like, like that. And I had such a crazy like like. React No. Reaction like to sneeze. I sneezed and coughed. It was like that. The entire mountain. No, it's.

1:25:54 Blue thank you lawyer. What did they say? He was like, wow, he was going crazy it. Must, I don't know, $10,000 worth, Yeah. What that was? Anyway, he had all his girls like with spoons in the carpeting trying to scoop it. Up. Scoop it all. Up. I just remember like, like it was just like it was so it was so like I just felt like it went right up to my eyes and my brain and like it was like stuck in my nose and I was like, I've heard that. It's something I felt jittery. Like, like my, my clenching, my jaw was clenching. I was like, what? Who likes this? What is? This it's so. Interesting you say? Because I have a friend that said that he did it once and he's like, I did it once and I haven't done it again.

1:26:38 He was but. I've always. Wanted to again since that first time I did it, he's like, it's such a dopamine rush and it's such a hit and it's so. It's so. Great. He's like, I did it once, I I never did it again. And he goes, but he goes when you're he goes, you know, when you're an addict, he goes like there's always a little voice in the back of your head that's like, come on, like just go for it. Just like just try that one with come on, man, like just take a couple of puffs. You're fine. No problem. Just do this, do that. It was. Awful. And then this is 3/3/30 in the morning. Yeah. And then I remember like, an hour or so later, like, you're such, like, OK, like, I was like, jittery and like, yeah, grinding my teeth and like, and then an hour later, like, you have such a crash. That's why you have to, like, keep bumping it. Like, keep doing it.

1:27:26 It's like, my cousin was like, come on, we got to take another bump. Got to take it. I was like, what? No, no, man. And like, I remember I couldn't sleep till, like, 2:00 the next afternoon. What kind of drug? Who likes this so? So what do you think that people like about it? I don't know, maybe. I did it wrong, I don't. Know right, I don't really. Know OK I. Mean it's supposed to be like. Amphetamine but supposed to be like, it's like Adderall but like all of the Adderall at once, you know, instead of being like time released, maybe like I liked Adderall like I liked amphetamines made me feel, I'm afraid. I I'm not interested in them. I'm not either. But like when I've always been more. Interested in like the psychedelic and like the unknown, like exploring like different parts of me and like like I've always been more curious on trying to discover like uncharted territories more than like getting the fake confidence to be like a book like ABS kind of like felt like you never took an. Adderall before no.

1:28:21 Nosing an Adderall. So I mean like. I was able to get a crazy amount of stuff done I won't do. It because I can get myself in the zone by myself. I worked myself up. I asked my Roshi. Shiva, when after like all this is, I went to Silver Spring to revire my Beyonc��ate. Oh, isn't. He great, amazing. He's my Rebbe. Yeah, yeah, I've, I've listened. To a bunch of his stuff. That's where I ended up. Instead of going to Lakewood, he's really. Excellent. Amazing. He's the best, I'm telling you. He's so worldly. And Tom McCallum Torah, he knows everything, everything. And he's such a, he's such a straight thinker. Anyway I. Took an Adderall once. There was a guy in the sheet, but he gave me an Adderall. I learned for I think 36 hours straight. It was like something crazy and I went to a bar and I asked him. I was like, you know, if I go to a doctor and get a prescription for this drug, I could do this all the time, learn I could finish shots in like 6 months.

1:29:13 Shots is all of the all of the Talmud, yeah, Helmud, which is which generally takes people if you learn if you if you learn one page a day, it takes seven years and it's struggles to do a page a day because it's really thick. It's really I was. Like I could do this in six months if I take Adderall if I'm on amphetamines. And he told me his answer was so nice. He was like Hashem doesn't want your fake energy, He wants whatever you have. Like the the best thing he wants is when you wake up tired. You're not interested. In going to learning, but didn't you go back to what? We're saying about about about like computing and stuff like that. Like that goes back to what we're talking about earlier with like, you know, Garden of Eden, like no processes. There's value in going through the process, but. There's value in the.

1:30:02 Choice of hey, I can do something that is not authentically me to. And by the way, there's a really good argument for that. I'm not even saying that you shouldn't do it. I'm just saying we should think about it. I'm saying that you should think like. If I could snap to. Remember the movie Click with Adam Sandler? I don't think I. Ever saw it? You never saw it. You were so limitless. Limitless I. Remember limitless like to me. Adderall was like limitless. It was like a drug that makes you a genius. But by the way, the problem is, is that all that learning? I retained 0 of it. Really. Because you're drugged up. Yeah. At the end of the day, you have all this energy and faith, but like, you're not using your real brain cells. I'm hosting. I'm. Hosting a debate soon between two medical students that are going to be out of a debate, but they're going to be talking when the student thinks that the system's completely screwed up and has to be completely reformed. Another one is I agree with him.

1:30:54 And the other one. Says you need top tier doctors to be functioning 100% when they're at 40% energy. And so part of what you're the rigor, part of the rigor of the education system in Med school is is to make sure that you can operate at 100% and make those right decisions. When you're coming back from vacation at 3:00 in the morning and you have two hours of sleep and a mother calls you, she's giving birth, you have to be on your game. Half of these. MD's getting through school, they're all on amphetamines, they all have to take Adderall to get through and to study all night. They retain 0. Knowledge 0 These doctors, they remember nothing and do we are. Are there studies that yes, examine, examine, I mean use? In medical school students.

1:31:37 Yeah, yes, the cousin. I have a different cousin. Yeah. From Teaneck, OK. The two of them are doctors. They were. They went to Med school to Albert Einstein and yeah, yeah, both of them got hooked on amphetamines, had to go to rehab to get off of it. So let's talk about. That Let's talk about amphetamines, let's talk about the opioid. Opioids are the. Worst amphetamines are like I never got addicted to amphetamines I just enjoyed them if I had them. It made me like when I used to buy tax deeds in Atlanta. Amphetamines and opioids. Are very similar though aren't they? Chemically they're extremely similar to 1. I mean because they hit. They hit dopamine receptors and they increase serotonin, but like opioids, it hijacks your frontal lobe. Amphetamines hit a different area so you have different things where to go. Explain can you?

1:32:22 Explain the difference or try to. If not, then we could. I don't know from a. Pharmacological perspective. I don't know if I'm OK. No problem. Fine expert in it but. As personal use, right? Yeah, sure, like opiates. Are it's just, it's pure bliss. It's pure. It's removal. It's removal from. It's just like. Nothing matters and and opioids are. Typically, Typically speaking are pain meds, Vicodin, Percocet. It does. It takes care of pain. It for sure it does, but it also right. But that's what people are. Referring to when you say when you say opioids, pain meds, Percocet. Vicodin, Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, morphine, morphine sulfate, Dilaudid are the Sackler. 'S are the Sackler's a terrible family. Terrible.

1:33:04 Terrible. Horrible. Right, they lied to the. FDA, I think it could be used for anything, these actual that should have been used for cancer patients at the end of life. That's it. And they put a little. Film around the the pill and said that they couldn't be abused the film if you took a paper towel and put it under some hot water and then rub the pill, the film came off. What's the What's? In that it was like a film that was. Supposed to make it time released and not and and like avoid abuse but it made once you rub that film off it was instant release and you which is why people crush it. Oh, that's why people crush it. Oh, when you crush. Something it's instant release. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to go through your digestive system and break up.

1:33:45 It's right to your brain. So what was your? Experience with it with opiates? Yeah, so I had a surgery. I had. How old are you? A big golfer. I was 31. OK, I had I was a big golfer. I tore my meniscus in two places and I went to a surgeon, orthopedic surgeon. He's like, I can't see you for a couple of months. Here's a bucket. It wasn't, it wasn't like a pillow case like this, right. Like, yeah, pillow cases. It was the bucket ones. Yeah. They're. The ones you got in class go right like the big ones. OK. And there were hundreds in there Hunt like of 30 milligram. No way. Hey, you just wrote that. For you, Yeah, yeah. Like not a 10 milligram Percocet, not even a 5 milligram Percocet.

1:34:26 The 30s that were the teeny little blue ones. It didn't even have Tylenol. Blues, Blues are Blues, Blues and Blues are accord. I read a book about this recently. I'll give you the book if you want. I'll show you the book after. It's a fight with between the DEA and the pharmaceutical companies about opioids and Florida was a big spot for huge pill. Mills here, yeah. And, and I think one, one of those Blues was equivalent to a hit of heroin. Yeah, according to, according to that author, So people. So you he gave you, he gave you a container of heroin pills basically. And. It was like, take it as prescribed, which was every four to six hours, take one for pain, which I did. I literally like, I didn't abuse it. You just did what the?

1:35:09 Doctor told you did it. As a doctor told me. I. I went for my surgery. I got it, you know, and I had run out and he gave me a few more like, but it was a regular pill bottle. And I was like, OK, he's like, you know, this is just for healing. And after I ran out of the bottle, I like, my whole body started shutting down. Like I'd know it. I was shitting myself. I couldn't hold in my bowels. I was shaking, sweating, freezing hot. What was that? What was? That experience like that's called withdrawal. Yeah. What was that? What was? That like awful hell. Like did you know you were going to do? Withdrawal or were you like what's wrong with me not at. 1st I had no idea what was going on. What did you think was? Going on, if that happened to you, I thought I would have thought I was dying. I went to the doctor. I was like, I feel like I'm dying. And I told him my symptoms.

1:35:52 He's like, oh, you're an addict. He said you're a drug. Addict, you need to go to rehab. I was like, what? I was like, this is I was like, you gave me these pills. Like, what does that mean? Yeah. So I remember like. By the way, that was like when I lost all faith in doctors. Like they don't know anything. They're just they push pills and they're just trying to mask symptoms and they're not getting a lot of anything about health. They don't know anything about nutrition or or any, you know what I mean? Like. So. I was like, I'm just going to suffer like like I was started Googling how to get through withdrawals guys like grapefruit juice and and what what's it called the Imodium diarrhea Like he had all these different things to like help for each symptom.

1:36:35 Were you? Taking them I tried. It it was like alleviated a little bit. I didn't sleep for weeks. Like that was the worst part. It was like, and you're so tired, but like you just can't sleep. Like I guess that's insomnia. Like, I don't wish that on my worst nightmare. And you're just up and you're just like, you feel everything. You feel muscles in your body that you didn't even know you had. You know, because everything was numb for the past three months. And I. Remember, I suffered, suffered and. And then and. Then like I remember like after like a couple weeks, I like was over, like a over like a hump and things that felt like starting to get better, you know, And it was like that reprieve that was like, Oh my God, thank God. You know.

1:37:21 And it helped me get through. And then a couple months later, I remember, I don't know what happened, but like, I was just like, I really want, like, a Percocet, Like, I really want, like a balloon, you know? Yeah. Like Oh my God, to newbies like that'll. Just be 1. Was something that said. Was there anything that set off that I don't know I. Don't. I honestly don't know. And it was just like, because you're ever thinking. That you're ever thinking like a. Craving out of nowhere and I was like what? And I remember like. I remember start calling people, texting people, Hey, do you have this? I remember a guy who got hit by a bus and he was like prescribed to these and he hooked me up with a couple and like I went to a movie with him and like, I was like drug seeking.

1:38:04 Yeah, you know, And I was like, what? And then I was like, what am I doing? And then all of a sudden, like I remember taking a few of them and I wasn't like the withdrawal was coming back. And I was like, what? What did I just do to myself? And why did I do this? And I started researching more and a friend of mine was like, who who had gone through this? He was like, you got to get on methadone or Suboxone. What is that? It's. It's like an opioid agonist. It's buprenorphine or or is Subutex or whatever. It's methadone. It's basically when you do, when you do opiates, you grow opiate receptors in your brain that were never there that are looking. To they're looking to be filled in, right? So more so this methadone and Suboxone, it basically fills in their opioids, but you don't get the high It's so it's so fills. Those, but without those so you don't go through. Withdrawal but you're not getting high, but it's it's like 10 times stronger than regular opiates in terms. Of the chemical right OK, so I I quickly found. Out that like it's it's more impossible to get off of Suboxone or methadone than it is to get off of heroin. Like it's it's easier heroin than Suboxone really so. This guy give you the wrong advice? Well, no.

1:39:19 All drug addicts today, this is the medically assisted treatment. This is all of them are on Suboxone like they're screwed and or methadone, they're screwed. That's why the answer is iboga is ibogate. It's the only thing that's going to help you. All these people are still on opiates. They're all still opiate addicts. They're just not getting high and they're on maintenance. Maintenance depending on it. Dependent on it total dependence. They call it Hurricane Harvey hit Houston. One of the biggest? Stories was the methadone clinics that were shut down because we're at Hurricane Harvey. Remember that hurricane? It was like over Houston, TX when was last? Recent weeks? No, it was. Like 7-8 years ago OK it lasted weeks they had no power flooding the method of the drug addicts all ended up going back on terrible because the methadone clinics were closed wow all was they're all relapsed we're. Easy with but.

1:40:05 It's not even relapsed. It's the continued They never broke. They never broke that addiction exactly so. So I got back on pills to get off of suboxone and it was just like I'm in this like crazy loop of. Of and at this point. You have responsibilities? Yeah. My wife is like, what do you? What the fuck? What are you doing? Would you? So what? Do you do as I told her I. Said I feel. I'm sorry, I don't want to cut you off. I feel enormous out of pressure on a day-to-day basis when I, you know, when I have a family to just be there, you know, like, forget about fighting something like an opioid, you know, you know, like it's so because it's chemical, it's your body depends on it, right?

1:40:49 I don't know how. I don't know how I'd be able to like, I mean, what was your head space like? I was a great father. When I had my pills, what was your head space? Like it was only I was becoming. Hard to deal with when I didn't have my pill, the pills, but when? You had it, you were fine. That was great. I, I actually, I think it was a better father. Like I, I felt like I had so much energy and I was so happy and I was like, let's go do stuff. Let's. Let's go, let's go. So you're almost. Like conflicting because you're like, oh, I feel like I'm a good dad at this and like, but it wasn't even. Like I was no, but I understood. My wife trusted me. She's like, I know you're smart. I know you're going to figure this out. And I she knew the whole story. I was like, the doctors got me on to this where I'm going to go to doctors and I'm not going to don't lock me up in a drug rehab for eight months. Like I have my own locked up issues from yeshiva. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, I'm not going somewhere without. And, and I finally discovered that like Ibogaine, that there's this psychedelic drug who introduced you to some drug addicts, some heroin addicts really like if you, if they're like, if you're rich and you want to get off of heroin, you go to Mexico or Costa Rica and you do Iboga. Wow, that's.

1:42:02 What they said they know that it's common knowledge. Yeah, yeah. But they're. Like, we're not. We can't afford it. So you got Medicaid drug rehabs here. That's just a scam. It's just a revolving door. We go there for three months, we leave, we relapse. We come back two months later. It's like, this is our life. Yeah. I was like, really? And I heard this from like two people, three people, then four people. I was like, what? I started researching it. I'm like watching these documentaries. Have you ever thought about? Psychedelics before that? Never you. Never. Were. Interested in them? You never thought anything about them? I was. Always scared of them because like my whole thing is my brain, it's like my mind and my cognitive ability. And I was, I was always like, I don't know, like LSD, like you go crazy and you know, it's like you might, you'll go out of your mind and never come back. And yeah, because you go to the jungle playing a banjo and I was like, but.

1:42:52 So I was. Like I was very scared about doing it. I found a Doctor Who had done research on it. He recommended a place. He introduced me to Deborah Mesh, who's the head of neurobiology at University of Miami. Recommended. I want to get in touch with her. I want to talk to her, too. OK, Yeah, She's this podcast. All the time, yeah. I would love. To talk, to look around. Yeah, Deborah Nash mash with him. MMM. Yeah. So I went to Mexico. I did ibogaine, it was such a crazy, crazy experience. I guess first of all I think bad trips. Wait, so you go to? Mexico you land in Mexico and you meet the group there at the airport or you go to take you take a cab to the What do you do They had.

1:43:35 They had a shuttle pick up, pick me up Mexican dude and and. And who are you with myself? How big? How big is the group that you're that you're tripping? I didn't go with the. Group you went by yourself. But like. There was like whenever someone comes to the airport, they'll pick you up. OK, That was by myself. I was there with a fashion designer from LA. Yeah, with a Kennedy girl. OK. Like wealthy para 1 addicts. Yeah, with a Mellon. Andrew Mellon from Mellon Bank in New York. OK, you know Mellon Bank? No. You've heard of Mellon? No. Chase, I think it was used to be Chase Mellon. Oh, really? Yeah. Like Mellon's like, big banking family. OK.

1:44:16 Like very wealthy people who were trying to get off heroin. They were all there and I think I had a very bad trip because like, I was so scared, you know? And it's like doing a psychedelic. You have to be in a safe Mexico. I don't know where I am. I'm in a Mexican clinic, you know, like, am I going to do this? What were the people? Like, were they kind? Were they They seemed nice to me. Everyone's just. Mexican, you know How is their English? The head. Doctor, he had OK English. Then there was a night doctor. So when you're doing. This. When you're doing this, there was a. Doctor like 2 nurses and like house staff, you know a chef. And yeah, I was getting my food sent in from Chabad of Cancun.

1:44:59 I heard they're great. Yeah. Cleaning people. There was a masseuse that I like. I didn't want her to touch me. I was, like, bugging out. Yeah. And I was like, I was always scared. I was like, am I going to take this psychedelic? And I'm going to wake up and, like, my kidneys are going to be gone. Yeah. Yeah. In Mexico. So what was it like? So you took it. What is it? It's a liquid. It's a pill. It's a pill, it's a powder like it's hydrochloride. So they take the iboga route and they basically make it hydrochloride which putting in hydrochloric acid until it breaks down to its fundamental core. It'll take a huge thing of Iboga barp and you can literally fill it fit into like a pill with a white powder took that you know, and then they put music on you and a blind what kind of music we listening.

1:45:44 To it was like. Amazonian weird music like it was bugging me out. Would you have rather? Chosen the music. Yeah. Yeah. What would you have listened to? I don't know. I don't know, you know, when I took. LSD I listened to Astral. I listen to Van Morrison's Astral Weeks. You know that, you know, that album, credible album. I love Van Morrison. And then I listen, I want to listen to a Grateful Dead concert because I know that the Grateful Dead concert formula, like the structure of the concert matches a psychedelic trip in the sense that at the beginning it's all light and easy and breezy. And then it gets a little heavier and then it gets a little darker. And then like kind of like it kind of goes into like this like mystical realm, like where they call it space or they play a song called Dark Star or the other one. And like it's intentionally just like the farthest out that you can get.

1:46:34 And they're like, we didn't even know where the music goes. And we just like we get lost and then like we kind of just somewhere out there, we just kind of find each other again and then we just kind of pull each other back into reality again. But that's a that they call that the ego, the ego loss phase of of a psychedelic trip that people say that when you go through a trip, like there's a dark side of that trip where like you lose your sense of like ego and sense of self and like you almost die and become one with everything. And that oneness allows you to kind of that that allows you the new perspective that emerges from it. And then they always end the concert with songs like singing back home or like, like back where you're turning back to yourself after you've been lost and rediscovered again. I have to re.

1:47:15 Listen to Grateful Dead send you some. Great concerts, this their playlist. Actually did that. Like it started off like light, you know, Amazonian beats and whatever and like rain and stuff. And then it started getting darker and it was like there was a certain point where it was like it. Was like these like? Voices. Yeah. And what? Were you, what were you experiencing, Terrified. I was What were you seeing? What were you? What were you experiencing? What were you visualizing, what you're feeling? What were you doing? It took like 30. 5 minutes or so to kick in and and I you start hearing your senses get so crazy heightened. It's like you hear everything. Like I was hearing the machines like the beeps I was hearing air conditioning unit turning on, turning on like meaning things that like you wouldn't ordinarily hear is very quiet.

1:48:01 Like it was like A at some point I thought I heard the universe expanding. Like the sound of it, like it was like a. You. Go. You start like it's shot out into space. I remember like you're shot out of your body and then what do you mean you? Shot out of your body. It's just like you close your eyes and like, it just feels like you're flying, you know? Yeah, I can't. That's really what I can describe it. It's like, But by the way, with Iboga, if you open your eyes, you're back in reality. Yeah, you're back. Like I don't think it's like, so you're supposed to keep your eyes. Closed right, that's what they. Put a mask on. But like, I sort of get scared and things like, are they gonna like, they're still in touch with me?

1:48:43 And I was like, are you cutting my kidneys out? You know? And I, like, lifted up my mask and was just like a nurse. Like, she's like putting my magnesium drip. So I didn't dehydrate. So I mean I. I met an entity and I think it was a Moloch. Like he called me by my full Hebrew name, as weird as can be, and he's like, what are you doing here? That's what he asked you. What'd you say? I said. I'm. Here for refuel, I'm here to for healing. And he said, what's the problem, you know and like. And then he just like he. Showed me like, it was just like so clear, like everything in my life and my history, my grandparents, my parents. It's like through my DNA, showing everything that built me up to who I am today and to have and yeah.

1:49:31 And like how everyone tried their best and, and it's, it's everything will be fine. And, and all I have to do is have the resilience and the willpower to to go down this road of light. And this road was like, it was paved with like skulls and bones, like the ground was. And it just ended. Like you couldn't like, it just ended in blackness, you know? And the other one looked like it was just like went on forever into light. And it was like a clear choice and was like, these are your choices. It's like that. That was the trip. Like from a neurobiological perspective, what Deborah Mash is looking at is that it, it like it coats over all the grown opiate receptors. It kill. It destroys them. It resets your brain circuitry. Get out. Yeah, so it's like after doing that, I won't even take an Advil. Like, I know I smoke cigarettes, but like this like, but I want a pharmaceutical drug.

1:50:19 And that's why, like I always tell myself, like, you got to kick this. But like a pharmacy. Do you think you know? You think you know the trip to I'll cook it. I want to do psilocybin. They say is really good for those to stop smoking. Well, if you. Want to if you want your own company phone company yeah, if I. Have a lot of souls happen yeah, if you. Have if you want company. I've been thinking I've been thinking I want to do a trip now that I'm a data too, and I think a lot of my life has been changing and I think I want to be able to I want to I want to explore below the surface of what I of what I feel about it. Hey let me know when. It were, yeah. Yeah, it happened. I'm really excited. I really want. I really. I really want to.

1:51:04 I really want to do it. I really think it it, it opens up. So to me, what it did was like, there's a blockage between like my neshama and my physical mind. And this, this opened it up. And it was like you just. Had a it was just like, it was like a blood clot, you know, between your neshama and it just it removed the clot how things were free flowing. And I just felt. Like afterwards, I mean first of all I was tripping for probably 2 weeks later every time I closed my eyes the. Receptors were still no just from the. Iboga, every time I close my eyes for like at least a week later, I would be getting like flashes of stuff, you know?

1:51:48 And even during the day, if my eyes were open, sometimes I would feel like these things were flying by. Yeah, I know. What you're talking about, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. You know, you're familiar. You get the sense that there's something in your peripheral vision that's kind of like moving past you, right? You're like, you're like broken. It's not there. Yeah. So like I was. Having that for a couple weeks, but I remember like my wife told me, like I came back and I was like a totally different person. But it's, you know, was it, was it? Scary to her was it. Scary to her was it? Oh, totally. Because I I, I don't even know how I made it back. Like they wanted me to stay there for 10 days, right? You started. From 7 you said right? I stayed there for. 6 I went Sunday morning and I was like, I have to be back for Shabbos. Yeah. So I took like a I had like an 8:00 AM flight from Cancun Friday morning back to Miami.

1:52:30 The program wasn't done. Right, it wasn't they. Want they needed to monitor you longer like. And I, I was still, I guess still tripping out like Major. I don't remember getting to the airport. I don't remember taking luggage you made you with. Yeah. I remember being. Freezing And I was on American Airlines and they I was in a wheelchair and an American Airlines stewardess, you know, they have like those little sweaters. She took her sweater and put it over me. And. When I landed, I don't, I don't, I don't know. And I just like ended up and my wife apparently like I had lost my phone. She was trying to call me and call me and I had lost it like a couple days before. No idea.

1:53:11 Like, wasn't interested in the phone. Yeah, she thought I was dead for two days, really. And then I like, knocked on the dinner on Friday afternoon and you're home. And she's like. I looked like deaf, like I looked pale, like my eyes were like black really. And she's like I went. I can see. That's why. I can see why it's scary to people, right? And, and she's like, I came home and I got into bed and I woke up like Sunday afternoon. Like Friday. Afternoon I slept till like Sunday afternoon. Wow. And you don't. Remember much of that. Zero. I don't know how I got back. Wow.

1:53:52 But the sense. But since then me and then. So then what happens? So you wake up Sunday and then you're and you're and you're like, I never want to do this again. And you stopped cold Turkey. What'd you do? Yeah. Oh no. No, I was done. I was like, I remember the day after they don't give you the Iboga until like you start going through a little withdrawal and I were going through withdrawal a little bit and I'm telling you like I'm ready. I'm ready, I'm ready. Like OK, OK, maybe another hour. They're like pushing me. And then after doing it like after the trip, the initial trip was over. I remember just like. I was just lying in my. Room just being like I have no withdrawal whatsoever. I was like I'm. Free. Wow. It was like, it was it was such like a liberating feeling. And not only that, but like I never, ever wanted to take a pill again. Like I saw that skull and bones.

1:54:37 Yeah. Path. Path. Like, it was vivid. It's still vivid in my mind. Yeah. And I was like, don't, I would never, as I was telling you, I would even get a thing that says opiate allergic. Yeah, a bracelet in case like God forbid something happens like not to have. To be able to get anymore. So just to change. Like it totally changed my whole perspective on things. I called my parents like I had been like in a little bit of falling out with them about stuff and. I apologize. To them, I like explain to them stories that I'd seen about them and about their parents and what they. Say they were like, blunt. They were like, I've never heard you talk like this before. Like this is so amazing. It's so amazing. But yeah, forgave a lot.

1:55:19 Of people in my life moved on like realized like provided a new perspective. Everything is like, yeah. You see that everything is about love, that like we're all organisms with nature and each other and we're all supposed to be symbiotic. So that feeling. Fade because I know that when I took LSDI felt that way but then it faded after X amount of time. That's what I. Think I begin is different and I had that feeling on ayahuasca. I did ayahuasca too. I had that feeling, but that feeling went away after a couple of weeks. Yeah, you have to like do it again for some reason. Iboga, I don't know, maybe more intense. Maybe they just. Dosed me high. I don't know, maybe for opiate addiction they dos me high, but like it was God willing, we'll be bringing it to FDA approval and this. Yeah.

1:55:59 So you somehow how do you go? How did you decide to go about that and what do you do about it? I came back and it was. Like a couple months later and I'm just like, this is so amazing. Like, and I had owned drug rehabs myself too. So at that point you. Were already owning drug rehab and how did you get into that? I mean, cousin, one of my cousins was into it. My family's in healthcare, OK. I had a lot of friends who were addicted to stuff and like, I don't know, I just felt like it was a So what are? You doing? You're doing management administration. Yeah, I own. 3 facilities and I had operators and you know, we took care of what was it like. Dealing with the paperwork and the yellow, the yellow tape, it's a pain in the. Nose how do you do it with insurance companies and they do you do it.

1:56:44 Personally or you hardly will do with it. We had a. Company that did billing, but like I, I feel like they, they didn't try hard, you know, even though they would take, they got paid percentage wise on what they collected, I imagine, but like they would take like 100 of the lowest hanging fruit and not attack like the top 10 biggest ones that were hard to get right. So. I don't know, it was hard. And also like I felt like I was hurting people like these drug rehabs don't do anything. Everyone relapses and and you detox them, you know, percentages. About that like I I because I know that for example, the percentage of people that almost. 80s and 90% but that's the people. That are forced to go right. Not necessarily. Really. Even the people. That that willingly check themselves in still have a 80% rehab I'm doing my.

1:57:28 Internship right now recovery Unplugged. That's that, you know, Andrew Sausen, he lives here. Yeah. He started with like Aerosmith, OK. And it's, it's a music based drug rehab, OK. And and I was talking to a guy and it was his seventh time at recovery unblocked, right. And I was like, Sam, I was like, I was like, maybe you should do. I was like, your family has money. Why don't you go to Mexico and do Iboga? You know, I was like, keep coming back. These places aren't working. And he said something interesting to me. He's like, the first time I came, I wasn't ready. The second time I came I was like 10% ready, the third time, 40% ready.

1:58:12 You know that's what it is. You're not. Ready to deal with that until you're ready to deal with it sometimes. You got to come through the system like 7-8 times, but there's going to be a time and as long as you don't die in between as you said. Yeah, but assuming. You don't die. That's a big if I know, especially. Because. I feel like the odds go higher and higher every time you leave, every time you relapse and feel like the odds get higher, right? So I don't know, I mean, it's right now it's the best system that they have, but it's like a little mini prison system. We're just going to like force you to not do drugs for three months until your insurance stops paying for it, and then we'll release you when you do drugs again and then you come back. So it's I. Don't know it. Doesn't work, but so you so you said.

1:58:52 Why you try to do ibogaine? So I came back. And I was like, how is this not FDA approved? Like I was realizing how many people were dying in my from my facility. Yeah. And and that's when I like that I realized that that Deborah Mesh, who I had spoken to was actually the one trying to bring it to FDA approval, spoke to her. She was like, it's amazing that you're calling me now. I'm in bankruptcy. I got her company out of bankruptcy. And this is 2016 and we're still, we're moving like with this now, hopefully with RFK and a friendly FDA who's just not interested in more interested in opiates, approving more opiates and drugs that'll hurt people than actually helping people. Yeah.

1:59:34 That this might. Get approved. Yeah, that'll revolutionize drug treatment. Do you think it will treatment? Well, get approved, yeah. Yeah, you think it will because? Because the. Veterans with traumatic brain injury and PTSD. This is the only thing that works the VA. It costs them. What $50 billion a year to deal with the vets and and then drug addiction is at its highest levels in the United States. What do you do about? What do you do? About the fact that it's a money printing machine and that they're going to fight tooth and nail to to stop you from making to stop taking away. Their this administration what I mean, he just announced yesterday about vaccines. You know that? Childhood vaccines. They now have to go through placebo trials. Yeah, do you understand how the least time ever? Do you know how crazy?

2:00:18 That is that you're giving your baby a shot that never had a placebo trial. I haven't. There's no it's. Not for not for half my kids. OK, I was saying but. That's, this is the realization I came through after learning I had. So I had to, OK, back to vaccines. I had to learn I'm a yeshiva guy. Like I didn't know anything about biotech and I got this company out of bankruptcy. I had a guy who helped me, an attorney and a biotech guy, but like, I was the guy and they put me on the board and I was like, I know nothing about FDA approval, drug manufacturing, good manufacturing, what you do when you're over. Your when you're over your when you're over your head, I read. You just. You just. Learned all the information. Is there, especially when the yeshivas I went to, there's nothing in the world because somebody knows that I cannot learn, right? And that's really truly.

2:01:04 So you learned. That skill set you have that toolbox where you learn how to learn, you know how to, you know how to, you know how to consume new information, right? And I know. How to think for myself and not be told like I was taught in yeshiva? Like if you had Akasha that the Rebbe couldn't answer, you were the man, right? Like you Just, you just, and he told you that he's like, that is an amazing question, you know, and that's, it's not like that in college. You'll be like, those questions are not asked here. That's a racist question or something. You know, they teach you how to think, not they teach you what to think, not how to think. And Yeshiva's teach you how to think. It's like you question. I question always, my whole life questioned everything, everything. And there's always an answer.

2:01:47 There's always an answer. There's always not an. Answer. There's a reason why there's not an answer. You know, it might be and it just might be time. I don't know. Like, what does this mean? Like you have the you don't. Have the tools right? Now to understand the answer, but it'll come and it's like you feel like you, you understand that you don't have the tools. So I learned I bought like I asked someone, he gave me 3 books about biotech. I I read them and I was like long term safety studies like how long is this going to take us? OK, this vaccines and when I started looking into vaccines and I only started looking into the vaccines when they came out with the COVID vaccine. Yeah, of course. Like everyone else, everyone else. I was like. What the fuck is this?

2:02:27 Why am I being forced to like I feel like there's so much pressure. Do it, do it. Do it for your mother, grandmother saved your neighbor. You're this and it's like getting hostile to me. I started questioning like what? I started researching no studies, operational warp speed and then regular vaccines. I was like, there's no safety studies on regular vaccines. And this was warp speeded, meaning there's no studies, there's no nothing. It's literally a shot in the dark. And I was like, and it's a brand new mRNA technology. And I have a friend, a friend of mine, Kagan, who some people. Say that it's not brand new though that it's been worked on for a while, since 80. 9 Robert Malone So it's not brand. New OK. But the technology is they've never deployed it into humans before, right? And Robert Robert Malone.

2:03:13 That's a guy who he was on a podcast, Rogan getting on Rogan. Remember that? Yeah, Robert Malone was the one who invented mRNA in 1989, and he said every primate we tested it on died within a year. Like that's what he said. He's like, do not take this. I invented it. Do not take it. And I'm like, here. And then all of a sudden that that whole Rogan was taken offline. Yeah. And then like there was another like Weinstein. Brett Weinstein. Yeah. Brett and Eric. Weinstein, it's like another. Guy all of a sudden that's scrub from the Internet. Yeah. And then Tucker Carlson or someone else was like talking scrubbed. I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? Like, I've never been so involved in, like, media before that. Yeah. And I'll say but this is just disappearing. It gets you. Invested. I was like something's up. So like I refused to take the COVID vaccine and started doing a deep dive into all vaccines and I could give you a couple of books, Turtles all the way Down and Dissolving illusions. You will see these are all scams. It's a money making scam to make you sick when you're a beat. Have you ever?

2:04:09 Have you ever? Spent time studying the other side, the response to turtles all the way down or whatever it is. And can you, can you make what what's, what's the argument against? Against your or against your argument. The the argument is just from, I think it's, it's not a rational argument. It's just like they just, they're repeating tropes, which is. Things could could save millions of lives, but it's not. True, but if you ask them. To source, you ask them to. There's no. Sources. And there's no anything. They're just repeating, repeating, repeating. I'm telling it's it's unbelievable. And they make they make you sick. I didn't vaccinate my youngest kid. He is No, he's never been to a doctor. He's never been to a doctor.

2:04:56 How is your kids? He's 5 and he's. Totally healthy. All of my other kids. Have ear infections, strep coughs, asthma, All of them. All of them. It's crazy. It's crazy. And these are all side effects that are on the label of sure scenes. Do you think that? Do you think that I guess what? Measles and mumps. These think my father had measles when he was a kid. He was like, it's just like chicken pox. Did you have chicken pox when you were a kid? I did have chicken. Pox I also did. And it wasn't a big. I think my neighbor had chicken pox and my mother brought me over to play with her. Yeah. So I. Got Yeah, I got, I got James the Giant Peach and Ice Cube in the bathtub, right? And I think that almond oatmeal bath or something. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, but like we.

2:05:37 Wanted to get it because then you have immunity. Yeah, yeah. But that's when now they have a very sell a vaccine. So no, kids get chicken pox. But is that good? These diseases aren't fatal or dangerous. Even meningitis. Meningitis is only fatal if you're not anywhere near a hospital for, like, after you'd contract it for six months. Then it slowly eats away at a person's brain. If a kid gets meningitis, they can go to the doctor and they get a vitamin A shot and it's gone. And some antibiotics like these are easily treatable. So what we're doing is we're injecting them with, you know, the adjuvants inside vaccines, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury. I thought aluminum is? Which one? Aluminum mercury, I thought was phased out of vaccines? I don't know that. One doesn't. Matter but like. When I was a kid, all of them had both of them. All of them had it.

2:06:19 Yeah, you know, and like, and then and then fluoride and all these, like these are all neurotoxins. And we're injecting our babies. Our babies is the answer. That Would you say that this is just it's scientism? It's denying God and thinking that humans could big trump God, but it's but. It can't even be that because the people that are doing the research and conducting a study, they, they know there's no studies, there's no, there's no background. They know that there's no they are basing. It on, it's not it's antibody, antibody response. Antibody response, Yeah, that if they inject. A kid with this ignore their side. Effects ignore it exactly. And you think that it's normal like ignore?

2:07:00 Everything. It's almost like. Selective hearing, but that's all. That's what. That's what RFK yesterday announced. He's like, it's all about antibodies. He's like, no, we're going to do real research. Listen, if they have real, truly safe vaccines, that's a godsend. That's an amazing thing. Yeah. The kids, these are fake. These, the vaccines we have are fake. When my parents were kids, they had two vaccines. I think the polio and the. And one other. One measles, mumps. I don't know. Smallpox, Smallpox. Smallpox. And yeah, yeah. And polio. Yeah. And then when I was a kid, I had 12. How many our kids have 72? That's crazy. 72, you know, they're money makers.

2:07:42 And by the way, the money that they make isn't even about the giving the vaccines. It's about lifetime of being in a doctor's office. I was talking to my. Students yesterday actually about conspiracy theories. We're just having fun. I was explaining to them where the root of a lot of it comes from, and we're talking about what regulatory capture meant, you know, And I was like, and I was like, how old are you? Students 10th grade, OK. I was like, what does regulation mean? You know, and we get to the root of regulation, right, to regulate, which is to control or to, or you know, I was like, so great. So I was like, what does regulatory capture mean? What does it mean? Capture of control, like controlling who controls what, right? I was like, great, as like every conspiracy theory you ever heard, you ever heard comes down to that, right? But the question always becomes, what is the potential risk versus the payoff, right?

2:08:31 So for example, it is the, you know, this is a real life case that happens to me. I've talked about this on the podcast before, But with the COVID vaccine, I initially took it and I told him and I was arguing with my mom about it at the Shabbos table. And Shabbos afternoon in 2021 you got the 1st 2:00. I had the first two I got. Moderna and a booster. I didn't get a. Booster, no, OK. After the first two, I six months later, I was already like, I shouldn't have taken that, but six months later I already took it. So by the way, with the information that I had at the time, I probably would have taken it again, but it. Was very hard for me to to hold back. So it's my mom's like. Emma, come on.

2:09:13 I was like, you think there's a conspiracy to get billions of people like vaccinated? My mother did not want it. Yeah. And I said, come on. I was like, even if you don't think it works, there's no way it's going to hurt everyone. It's no way that people are out there to hurt people and make money on that. And I'm like, Oh my God, they're out there to hurt people and make money on that. Like. And. And it's when I was explaining to my students, I'm like, the the bigger the risk, the bigger the payoff. But then when the risk doesn't work out, right? So I was like, so actually a lot of the risk keeps conspiracy, the people that would be behind the conspiracy theories in check because they don't want to lose. They don't want to, you know, show their hands, right? So I think pharmaceutical companies got so greedy that they were willing to extend their hand for the risk.

2:10:03 So I was like, think about this, right? What, how much money did they make on the COVID vaccine? How much money have they lost since then based on just distrust because of how far they pushed the COVID vaccine? But. You know, so it. Wasn't worth it for them. Now Pfizer. And Pfizer's biggest drug is is cancer and myocarditis drugs are they which are caused by the COVID. Yeah, of course. Really. And that's what all. Of this stuff is they give children things and Pfizer since. Since since the COVID vaccine has come out with biotech. Yes they bought 3 cancer companies that use AI to target specific cancers and their newest things would be cancer drugs and my parents getting turbo cancer. You don't hear about this I've heard about. It but I don't. I've had five.

2:10:44 Friends drop dead, you had. Five friends. Yeah. Yeah. One of them was a cold one of the cola guys in in Miami Beach's wife, 42 years old, drop dead. Drop dead heart attack like 2 weeks after her third, her third dose. I mean, this is it's don't you can't trust these people. It's hushed Amamaina, hushed, hushed Bawasa. It's a Gamara concept. They're suspect of greed. They don't care about your life. They want money and the money isn't in even in the vaccines. It's about the perpetual sickness that yeah, yeah, the pharmaceutical. Treadmill is what it's called you're exposing. Your children, Hashem made our bodies perfect. That's what they say. Don't even give your kid Tylenol if they have a fever because the fever is between 100 and 100 and 102 and that is a perfect temperature to kill bad viruses in your body and bacteria, but not the good bacteria I know, but you know.

2:11:39 But I feel, I feel, I know from my own experience that when you're a parent and you're in your first time parent and you have a kid that's a year old and they're hot and they can't sleep and they're crying and they're miserable, you want a solution. Right now, if you don't vaccinate your kid, she will he she will not get fever. She will not have fever. That all of these. Illnesses that your babies get are because they were just vaccinated and they're always after their Wellness visits. That's when people kids. Get kids, get fevers from from their teeth going in people get people get kids get kids get fevers from from from going to play. Of course they're going to be fine, but my, my, my, my, my point is that it's a lot easier said that parents want parents, especially young parents that are first time parents. They want answers more than anything. People look for stability and that's why authority is so attractive because authority is the equivalent of confidence and stability.

2:12:38 I know this. I spent X amount of time studying this and researching this. How much time have you spent? Zero. What do you do for a living? You're a teacher and you do sales and you do a podcast. Guess what? Mind your own business. Sit in the corner. Let the professionals tell you what to do, what you think. Doctors researched this. No, I, I I, by the way, most doctors I've. Spoken to. They are just taught in school to follow orders in a book. And that's why even in my school right now, we have the DSM 5, right? The Diagnostic Statistical Manual about mental illness. It's a bullshit book. Is it? Yeah. Meaning you could diagnose anyone with bipolar and there's no difference between bipolar 2 and just having a really bad day. What's what is? Bipolar 2. Technical Bipolar. 2 is just like you don't have major mood swings, but like you have like you're happy in the morning and then like you're sad at night Yeah, that's just a bad day Yeah, you know the.

2:13:26 Great bit about that. What's his name? Kevin J Kevin James and they are usually fat. I don't know the Adam Sandler movies and King of Queens or whatever. He has a new he has a new Amazon special. He was pre diabetic. He was a diabetic. I mean not diabetic. He's like, well, if all of us, if you, if you're diabetic, you're 1 camp and we're not diabetic. We're in this camp. You're a little bit closer to this camp than we are, but I'm not diabetic yet. He's like, no, you're not diabetic yet. He goes so I'm still in the pre diabetic range. He goes yeah, tell him OK, he's like, yeah, but you could not be. And then he goes OK, Bob. And then he goes to his doctor. He's like, do you have diabetes? Like, no, I was like, could you get diabetes? Like, I guess, yeah. So you're pretty diabetic, too.

2:14:09 And he's like, well, yeah, I guess so, you know, But it just came out. And what? Else do it. Yeah, yeah, it's. Very good on Amazon. He I was I, it's I'd probably give it AB Plus in terms of comedy, do you like stand up comedy? I might give. It AB to B plus I went to see Ari Shaffir here the other week. Who's here? He was here. He was. In Danger Point, What? Yeah, he did. I think two or three nights. He went on Thursday night. I wanted to do 1. I. Where'd you think of it? I loved it. I loved it also. I loved it. I loved it a little like. It was. It was. It was pushing the envelope. It was raunchy. He was like, you know what? He. Gave like a good. He was fair. Yeah, about. Yeshiva and everything. Yeah. And he was on Tucker Carlson. Did you? Yeah, I. Watched that too. I thought that was actually like Tucker was like, really? They just study and try to do kindness all day. Yeah, OK.

2:14:55 He's like, that's amazing. Yeah. He's. Like dude, crazy I. You. Know I can't get I can't. He drives me crazy. Tucker. Tucker, I think he's but he gets. The best he's turning into an anti summit like no so. I'm going to push back. I don't think he is. Here's what I here's what I'm going to say. People are incredibly canvas Owens. And I'm not on Ben Shapiro's side, but I'm telling you right now, from how they speak, canvas Owens is not. The same thing as Tucker Carlson, I think they're on the same. Page and I think it's a his whole issue with Israel is not America first. It's not America first. We have always protected Israel.

2:15:37 They've been our greatest allies. It is important for us to have some Middle East stability. So let me let me ask. So let me ask, guess what I don't. Trust Netanyahu. By the way, I'm not a Zionist. I think I. My, my, my, I have a friend that came that I did a podcast with made a remarkable point they never thought of. And that is if BB was out tomorrow, the person that replaced him would be a lot worse than BB is, right? And that BB's hands are tied right now because he's barely keeping his coalition alive. And if he does, if he sneezes the wrong way, the entire government shuts down, falls apart. And so right now, he's in a unique scenario. And I don't think that.

2:16:18 And I think that particularly American politicians that don't know the Israeli, they don't know the Israeli system of politics. I don't think they quite understand that if they decide it's America doesn't live in a world where like if people decide that there's just a government shutdown, a Congress decides that the government shutdown and then the president is just removed. And then like you just have new elections. We don't have that in America, Israel. So America doesn't understand that about Israel politics. I don't like, I don't love BB by any stretch of the imagination either, especially after the last couple of years. I think I don't, I think that he did probably more harm for Israel than good, especially when it comes to our relationship with America and especially when it comes to our optics in the rest of the world. I think that if Hamas had any kind of plan and the plan was to lose public favor, for Israel to lose public favor in the world's eyes, they 1000% accomplished their plan. And I don't think they give AI, don't think they give a flying crap about all the lives that are lost in the in the process of doing that.

2:17:19 I, I, I, I, I, I, my heart breaks. And I think about this a lot. If America, if South Florida got bombed because of a decision that Trump or Biden or Bush or Obama or anywhere or Clinton or Reagan or anyone made, I would never forgive him. If, if, if, if my family, I'm working so hard to keep together and to grow and, and I'm struggling every day of my life to try to do provide the best for my family and create the most meaningful and healthy and organic and wholesome life. And I get blown up because of something else that someone else says or someone else does that's outside of my control. I would be so upset. I'd be mortified. Now, I don't know what percentage of the people have absolutely nothing to do with Hamas in in Gaza. I don't know what percentage of people and I don't think anyone will ever know because I don't think the numbers are ever going to be accurate.

2:18:07 The answer is not 100. This is not 100% right. I. Don't think a. 100% of the people living in in Gaza, 100% of the Palestinians are pro Hamas in this war and are still suffering the consequences of being in a place that they can't control where they're just trying to live their lives and their lives can blown up. And I think it's sad, but and I I'm sad that Israel has to do that and I'm sad that Israel has to optics for that. It's Hamas and it is. And I do believe the Oslo it. Is. Hamas's fault 100% and all this is a battle of optics and no one on the pro Israel side is intelligent enough or eloquent or articulate enough to say guys, you're I agree with you. It is awful that children and women and babies are getting blown up.

2:19:01 How come they don't say that? That's all you got to say. No, they don't. I, I, I don't hear it. I and I listen to these and I listen to podcasts and I listen to the bass and I listen to and I listen to all this stuff and no one represents is everyone has the same condescending, stupid, authoritarian perspective you have to like as well. They've always been a great guess what, acknowledge that some that that this sucks. Acknowledge that this isn't ideal, but Israel. And you will get. Honesty Nation are. Americans, 1/4 of the population of Israel. I don't know if that number is right, but a lot American dual citizenships, sure, it's American Jews who are living there. There's so many Americans who live in America, America who have places in Israel, a family in Israel. It's such an intertwined country and we have done everything. The American governments, whichever president was there, Clinton, Obama, Bush's, we've done everything. We've given up Gaza, we've released control. We've taken our own people out of there. We've done everything.

2:20:04 We've taken the partitions. We, the maps keep getting smaller. And that's it's like what Ben Shapiro says. The only thing is like if, if Israel would lay down its arms. We would be murdered by Hamas if Hamas put down their own right, but I don't would. Live in Riviera, so so I think that's true. It is true. But that's not it's not a good enough answer. The reason why it's not a good enough answer is geopolitically. We always take care of our allies. I'm not talking about Ukraine. I'm not talking about America totally different than Ukraine, but I'm talking about Tucker Carlson specifically. I'm telling you whenever I hear him, whenever it comes about Jews, I think he has. He's an Episcopalian and and Candace is a Catholic and both of those evangelicals love love Jews and Protestants like Baptist or whatever or Southern Baptist, even Episcopalian and and Catholics do not like Jews.

2:20:57 They believe they take the New Testament literally. Jews are the House of Satan. We're the Antichrist. We kill Jesus. They don't like us and I think it's coming out whenever it comes up and Israel is just a front. It's AI think Hooker is. I think it's. Plausible. I'm not even saying you're wrong. What I'm saying is, it's what? I feel OK. Yeah, by the way, I don't. You could be right. Love Tucker. Like, you could be right. Love Tucker. He has such investigative journalism. He was talking about things nobody else was talking about, right? That's what's valuable. Whenever it comes to. Israel or Jews? He's like he changes. And guess what? I love Candace Owens too. I always listen to her. She has a whole series called Shot in the Dark about vaccines. You heard that?

2:21:40 No, I haven't. I want. To actually listen to the Bridget and when he got one of the easy ones, but. She did a deep dive. I think they stopped her and she was going through each vaccine and she did a deep hour podcast on each vaccine showing you how BS it is. Yeah, it's called A Shot in the Dark. And I loved her for that. I loved her like it was during COVID when I was like learning about this so so. I don't. But but what she's, what she said and what Tucker said and what I agree with and I think what a lot of people have to understand, and I think that there's an enormous sensitivity criticizing the government of Israel's actions is not anti-Semitic. I don't. I'm not. Talking about that I know, but. I think that a lot of people do and I think, and I talk about you, I think people in general, I honestly.

2:22:23 Think the biggest American patriots. All of the people. That, say American could. Be better. I think October 7th was an inside job. Do you think so? I think so too, by the way. I think they let it. Happen. I think they let it happen and and I think it's terrible. And I think it's terrible, forgivable. It's. Unforgivable. They should all be on a tribunal and hanged like the head of the Shin Bet, the head of the Mossad. I think they all knew it was going to happen and they let it happen. For political shit, probably. Maybe to get to Tonio out of office. I don't know what what the motivation maybe to get. Maybe to bomb Gaza to pieces. Maybe. I don't know what it is and that's. The thick thing stinks, and that's the thick thing. And that is not what's best for Jews. It's not what's best for the world's, not what's best for Israel.

2:23:05 It's not what's best for Zionism. I. Told I tell people whenever and I would love to move to Israel. Like I'm looking at buying hope. I want to buy something like an Ashkelon. Like I think it was like a new building coming. I can get it for like cheap. I love Ashkelon. I want to. Move. There's a lot of time there. And I was not as. I tell people like, oh, for the world Zionist or Congress or whatever's happening now, Yeah. And. I'm like, I'm not. Registering for anything that says Zionist in it. I don't understand what it is. Why? Because it's an ISM. To me, it's like yeshivish ISM. It's a Zionism, it's communism, it's socialism. I don't want isms. I love omnistrol and I love Eritusrol. I love Jewish. People and I love. Jewish people and I love the land of Israel yeah so but I don't know what Zionism is yeah political movement that I don't understand because by the. Way.

2:23:50 There's so many different heads, there's so many different branches in itself. It's just, I think it's just. People making another ISM so they could be at the head of it and they're using us as just cogs in their Zionism thing. I'm not involved. I'm not a Zionist, right? But like I would join Sahal to protect my my Jewish brothers and sisters, right, who are living there, right? You know, but I'm not fighting. So we need we so, so we. I think that I think that there needs to be be more voice. So I think that we lose a lot of credibility, especially after the last 10 years when a lot of Jews scream anti-Semitism instead of responding to a particular, for example, Right. I talked about this. Actually I did.

2:24:30 I do solo episodes every now and then and I listen to a Candace Owen episode. I forgot who she was. Talking to I have to remember, but she was talking about Israel a little bit and she was saying like, oh, does it make any sense that America is in the Middle East? Guess what? It does make a lot of sense that America is in the Middle East because there's an enormous amount of wealth and and she's like, America didn't get anything from all those wars. Guess what People got stuff out of those wars. People got wealth out of those wars. People got power and influence and the people that wanted to wage those wars waged those wars. I don't think that it was directly Israel's fault, but I also think that instead of telling Kansas Owens you're a lunatic Zionist and then posting it all over Twitter and flipping out over about it, if I could just say, hey, I understand where you're coming from.

2:25:14 I hear where your conclusion you're coming to. Have you ever considered the fact that America really did benefit from the wars that are happening in the middle? And not all of America, but particular people in America had particular interests. And if you want to say that particularly people in Israel did too, that's fine. But don't tell me, don't lie to me and tell me that Israel convinced everyone in America to join for exclusively Israel's sake. And America got nothing out of it. Like I don't think it's true. And like, I think that's important to be able to have that conversation, have both. Made comments about how the American government works for APEC. Yeah, and they're just Israeli shells for the Israeli government. Like that's so conspiratorial. And that's why I don't mind if she criticizes the government.

2:25:56 I don't like the Israeli government. But when she starts talking about we have to have nothing to do with Israel, it's coming. Did you you never watch that Douglas Murray where he responded to Candace? It was no. I kind of lost. I lost a lot of respect to Douglas Murray after his debate with Dave Smith. Oh. Yeah, that was weird. That was terrible. I was so excited for it. I know I was so excited. And he, he. He. He shot himself in the foot probably 5 or 6 times in a huge way and by the time he had a couple of really good points that by the time he got to them he ruined all his credibility that there was no way that there was everything he was. Condescending to him. He was disgusting. Right, there's a problem. It's his bird book at the end of the day, he makes good points like he's very because.

2:26:38 You lose those points and you lose the people and you lose the followers. You lose this like this was like. Eight months ago he had a response to Candace Owens and it was very, very eloquent, fair, middle of the road. The government might have major issues, but these are our allies and they have an existential threat. And it's a tiny little country that has done everything to try to make peace with their Arab neighbors. They don't care. And these Arab neighbors, it's not like, oh, Russia doesn't have in their charter to kill all Ukrainians to and drive them into the the Black Sea. That's not in their charter. This is in the charter for in, in the Palestinian in, in the West Bank and in Gaza. This is their charter like to kill, to do genocide, and you have to we as we should protect them. I don't know.

2:27:24 You're right. It's complicated, it's so, but. I think I have this feeling. Candace and Tucker and and there's a guy coffee and COVID. I read in the morning. Jeff Childers, you should read it. It's great. It's like on Substack. He's hilarious and he has such a good his fingers on the pulse. He shows you all the BS from the New York Times and the Washington Post and but Tucker's guests? Are are are like a plus quality. He has such so I hate I hate the way he interviews because it's the same gotcha journalism that is the corporate media in the sense that he phrases questions as statements that completely push the narrative, right. You know, so it'd be like, oh, state of Israel, you go. So, you know, you know, when you tell a country to do that, Oh, it sounds like they hate you. Like why do they, you know, do they hate you and why do they hate you?

2:28:08 You know, you know, like what you just changed the entire premise of a question that was supposed to be open-ended. You just, you just took miles and miles of potential area that you could be answering and you've narrowed it down to 1 little Rd. which is why do they hate you? And that's not journalism, you know. And by the way, what I do appreciate about him and the same breath is that he does break all these stories and talk about people that would. I think that part of journalism is hard to define. I think that it is introducing new perspectives so that for for people to be able to come to those conclusions. And he does that exceptionally well. I don't like the question that he asks when he's interviewing, but I think that the quality guests that he gets and the type of conversations that he has are extremely valuable regardless because they provide other perspectives that just give food, food for thought.

2:28:59 So can I just? Say that I love Tucker Grossen, but I just don't think he likes Jews. Yeah, sure. You. Could by the way, I I think that about Dave Smith. I love Dave Smith. I don't think he likes, I don't think he likes Jews, but I think he's very unfair to Jews in Israel, which by the. Way I I sometimes also don't like Jews like I hear like Jews are like if if you ever listen to Kanye about what happened to him, do you understand why he hates Jews? No, he had a Jewish manager who stole everything from him, who got him into a contract that basically his manager made like 70% of all of his proceeds. And he gave Kanye 30 and he signed it when he was like 19 years old. And he worked for like decades.

2:29:43 Yeah, totally for for like decades to break, to get out of that contract. And he lost so much money. And he was this and that. I would. I would also Jews. Let's say the Jews are the best people I've ever met are Jews and the worst people I've ever met. The worst? Yeah, for every. Great, Arnabian does it. You have. Yeah, you have a. Yeah, yeah. Chuck Schumer. Jeffrey Epstein. Harvey Weinstein, Bernie Madoffs, like a Jew without Yiddish kite is the worst piece of shit on the on the face of the Earth. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to say without Yiddish kite, which is like without morals. Yeah, without. The direction like we're so. Smart. We're so sneaky we could figure out how to collapse an entire banking system because we would Ever.

2:30:28 Yeah, what are we? We're good. We're good. I want to, I want to. We're about two hours and 15 minutes to wrap it up. Well, wrap it up I. Want to wrap up though, I want to wrap up with with the last bit of hope for psychedelics. So I want to ask two things. I want you to repeat the story to me again with the twins, with a girl, and then I want you. And then I want to ask what you're planning on, what your hopes for the future and your plans are for trying to help legalize Abigail or so? Ayahuasca is Ayahuasca is legal if you have a religious exemption because it's. It's used. In Mesoamerican religious cultures. So because of freedom of religion here, you could get in, I forgot what it's called A5O1C6 something which is a nonprofit religious exemption.

2:31:22 You become like a Church of ayahuasca. That's what Tick and Healing has here and there's a few other places so it's legal to do it there. Ayahuasca which is DMT based, which is like ibogaine and pipeyote. It's dimethyltryptamine as opposed to like mushrooms or suicides. It's it, it opens you up like it's the pineal gland secrets. This when a person's born and when they die. Yeah, DMT, The DMT, you can actually get it and secrete it through your through your pineal gland, through breath work, crazy breath work. And and I think.

2:32:02 It's very important for deep trauma especially, and I think after World War 2, we're just dealing with a world of of deep trauma just keeps getting perpetuated throughout the generations. So I. I've had experiences with ayahuasca now with, I mean, I used to take addicts from Miami to Mexico to do iboga, drug addicts, but that I didn't really focus on the trip with them so much at more of just like the healing and yeah, just get them there. Get. Them off of opiates, you know, it wasn't really what you see what you experience. But with tikkun, I was taking some people to do ayahuasca and it's just it it it's so it's like the ultimate catharsis, right?

2:32:45 Catharsis is Freud's way of when you talk about your pain, you let it out right? And crying and laughing is your way of it's words. It's words that you're you're it's words you don't know how to verbalize your soul just makes it come out as tears, laughter. And that I think that ayahuasca, these DMT things do that. And it, it, it goes, it's like a deep dive into yourself, into who you are, your true nature, your history, your past. And there was a few crazy stories that I had just don't know, like HIPAA violation. If I'm a lotta, I mean, if she hears this, she would know I'm talking about her. But is that a HIPAA?

2:33:26 Violation. I don't know. I don't think so. It's always. Completely anonymous, so it. Was a person who they were depressed from the 8 from literally 5-6 years old. This is what her parents said in and out of treatment, treatment resistant depression. Finally her parents was like, we want her to do ayahuasca. She came to do ayahuasca and we were there to help her with, with integration and whatever, just holding space. She did it and she, she afterwards I was like talking, we were talking. She said that she it had taken. She said ayahuasca took her back to her mother's womb and. When she was in her. Womb. There was another baby in there with her and then when she came out of the womb it was just her by herself and that when she was on ayahuasca, she met her sister. Who she didn't know.

2:34:21 That she had who had died. She was stillborn, and her sister's neshama told her that she's perfectly happy. Her soul said that I'm perfectly happy in heaven. I'm sitting next to God, everything is good. I'm living in utter joy and bliss and I'm waiting for you and you need to let me go and live your life, get married, have a happy life. I I even think she told her like a name of who she's going to marry and how many kids she's. But like. That can't be confirmed yet. And then she called, we called her mother, she called her mother and we were there and she said.

2:35:04 That she said she's. Telling her the story and her mother because there was just a silence on the phone and we heard her mother like muffle the phone and ask the husband if she ever told her, if he ever told her. And he responded, we heard why would I ever tell her? Why would that ever help her? And we immediately realized that like this was true that she had a twin and the twin was a stillborn. Her parents had never told her about it and that her entire life she was depressed because she missed this this other piece of her because a twins are really one cell, right? Was meiosis or whatever it's called, where they split and that she was missing her and that she finally got this release from that other soul telling her to go live her life. It was a wild story.

2:35:55 It was a wild story through the craziest. Stories ever heard of my entire life? By the way, there was another guy. Who he was a sex addict. He was like a porn addict and and prostitutes and things and married, married, divorced and. And he went. Back Ayahuasca took him back. This is a wild story to when he was being conceived and he was like in the bedroom with his parents. No way. And he saw. How his father was just using his mother for sexual lust and there was no love whatsoever in that union. And that's what he was born from. Wow. And he realized that his sex addiction was because of that. That caught.

2:36:37 This and then and he stopped. He's free from his sex addiction. Wow, like these are so. So what do you do to? What's the What's this I think? Iboga we're trying with ibogaine like I think that is the most potent DMT psychedelic out there and it works for opioid addiction and traumatic brain injury and I think it will have the most immediate effect on society to help addiction. Are they downsized? Not that I've no, I mean unless it's like it's a bad trip and they go through psychosis, but I think if everything is downside of ibogaine is it could have caused QT prolongations, but that's why they figured out it's an EKG. When it's you beep, beep, beep, beep your heartbeat. So the QT is when it's between beats it there's a resting period.

2:37:31 Yeah, it's. A It's a little longer that could get. Prolonged, interesting. And if a person has like heart condition before before and their murmurs, it might not restart, right? So first of all, that happens like 1 personally the person, if you pre screen the person to see if they have any pre-existing heart conditions, if they don't, that never happens. Even if they do, you could shock them. Even if they do, that would still never happen. Maybe one in 10,000 people, right? Even one of those 10,000 people, you can immediately shock them and restart the the heart, right? So it's just this, these were learned over the past like 30 years of researching ibogaine. Also, if they have a magnesium drip, the magnesium allows like it, it, it doesn't it, it protects the heart somehow. It also keeps the person hydrated. So there's, there's a lot of safety protocols that can be that are put in place to to make sure there's no, there's, there don't have to be any side effects, right? And I would just say a bad trip, but even a bad trip, if you have a good professional who's there to help integration, you're, you're good like you're good.

2:38:35 So they really so. They've covered all the bases, yeah, I think. So and that's what they're still. So how do you so? How so? So we need the FDA. To want to look at it. The FDA has never wanted to even look at it. Now they're going to want to look at it. RFK has spoken about it, right? So I think they're going to look at it and I think they'll approve it. And I think ayahuasca is good. Go to a place that has a religious exemption. If you have some deep trauma, like or even not deep trauma, complex trauma, which is like needling throughout your life. It's not like one major event and it's just like you were put down throughout your whole life. Sure, sure, sure. It could cause complex trauma. I think. Ayahuasca could really open a person up and I think it's just like it's it's going to connect people with themselves again, with their own identities and with each other.

2:39:23 And I think that's what brings Mushiya. I hope so. I hope you're right. Maybe we'll do another podcast. Maybe I feel like we didn't even like, I feel like we didn't even scratch the surface, but I feel like it's so much fun and, and time just slips by before you know it. But thank you so much for this time and thanks for doing this. I, I, you know, we talked to just a random introduction from a friend of mine that bumped a cigarette off you and, and then he called me up. He goes, I bet it's really cool to do that. You know, I think I think you'd be a lot of fun in your podcast. So I'm really excited about this and I think it's a lot of fun. I'd love to do this again. And I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate everything you're doing and this whole story. And I think that. Today's awesome.

2:40:03 I think that I think that the more I think the more people hear stories and the more people understand that, like everyone understand that life is hard for everyone. It gives everyone strength to kind of keep on pushing through and like, you know, and like you understand, you're like, hey, I'm not alone. And like, I don't have to like, like, just hearing other people have gone through it themselves, you know, just such an enormous benefit that, you know, it could just be such a net positive. Life is hard for everybody, but the hardness makes the good times even better. Yeah. Like you don't really appreciate a vacation if you don't work really hard. Yeah. Before the vacation, sure. If you're just chilling all year, the vacation is meaningless. Yeah.

2:40:45 So yeah, I appreciate the. Time. Thank you so much. All right, we'll call you here. Thank you so much. Have a good night.