May 4, 2025
Episode 99: Jonathan Osborne
Jonathan Osborne is a former Cartel Federal prosecutor, corporate defense attorney and Dad
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And we're live.
I love this.
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I I never know exactly the
proper way to start.
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You know, it depends what kind
of conversation I'm having.
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So Jonathan, why don't you tell
me a little bit about yourself
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to start and then we'll kind of
probe our way through there, I
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think.
Yeah, please.
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All right.
Well, first of all, good
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evening.
Good evening.
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It's nice to be with you today.
It's great to be here.
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So about myself, starting in
what year?
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Like as a kid or currently,
which is what's?
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Better let's start as a kid, all
right?
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Yeah, I'm interested in that.
Where are you from?
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You from here?
I'm from Miami Gardens, Florida.
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I know, Miami Gardens, sure.
Which now is Miami Gardens,
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Florida.
But when I lived there was just
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Miami, FL didn't really have the
name.
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It didn't have the gardens
either.
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But I grew up there and lived in
in Miami until I was 16 and we
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moved to Vegas when I was 16.
Gotcha.
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Come from a big family.
I have three siblings, two
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parents that's good, that are
still still together, still now.
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That's nice.
That's uncommon.
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Right, we all hang out together.
It's so nice how often.
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Yeah.
They live here now.
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They move back.
They live in Davie.
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Oh sweet.
OK, we now live in Hollywood,
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right?
And we see them all the time.
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We saw them last night, for
example.
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It's awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome.
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It's beautiful.
Anyone or your siblings?
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They're close.
They are not close.
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I have a sister in Ohio, a
sister in Arkansas, a sister in
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Colorado and a half brother in
Miami.
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Wow gotcha.
How often do you make your way
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out to each of those places or
vice versa?
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I feel like they would come here
more.
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Right from here, Yeah,
distantly, probably twice a
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year.
OK.
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And when we go to the other
places kind of depends on what's
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going on.
So we went to Ohio this year for
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my brother in law's birthday.
Which part of Ohio?
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They live in Cleveland, Shaker
Heights.
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Nice.
Yeah, I'm familiar with it.
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And we'll go to Arkansas in this
summer, probably not Colorado
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this year, but I'm good.
Where are they in Colorado?
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In Denver?
Denver.
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Nice.
What do you think of Denver?
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That's lovely.
It's.
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A cool place, right?
It's a lot of fun.
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I drove cross country a couple
of times and I always made sure
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to hit Colorado because I think
it's like it's not from
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Washington.
I think it's my favorite state.
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Like just to.
Go through Washington state.
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Yeah, I love Washington State.
Have you driven that far?
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I have.
That's why I moved.
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That's why I drove to I, I moved
to Seattle for a year.
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I drove from New York and I and
like, yeah, my buddy, I
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convinced my buddy to move with
me.
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I told he was working at, he's
doing coding at a big corporate
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company and he hated it.
And I worked with my dad.
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It's a little family business.
So I called him and I was like,
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if you quit your job, I'll hire
you.
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I didn't speak to my dad.
Yeah, but then my dad didn't
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want to do it.
So I'm like, I, this guy's pop,
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I'm telling you, this guy's
brilliant.
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It's like until he shows you
split my salary, we'll just
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split it together.
And, and that way you won't even
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notice when you decide that it's
worthwhile, then you'll pay both
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of us, you know, regular salary
or, or more hopefully if we
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create that value.
It took like a month and 1/2 for
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that to happen, you know, but he
did it.
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And then for the next couple of
months, we were four guys living
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in a house that cost 4 grand a
month, where between us our
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income was like $75,000.
We were just living on savings
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until, until, until we got more
money.
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And then in Washington, in
Washington, Seattle, Yeah, in
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Seattle.
And so along the way, we, we
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drove, you know, so I drove.
So I picked him up and I bought
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a 2000 and like 8 Toyota Prius
with like 140,000 miles on it.
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And one of the cylinders
actually wasn't firing while the
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entire job like this is burning,
burning out through gas like
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crazy.
And my friends like, oh, well,
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you know, it's all our stuff in
the car.
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You know, maybe that's what it
is if you got to Seattle and
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like, no, that car is that car
is not good.
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And then ended up getting hit.
I got like 6:00 in the morning.
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I was going to synagogue and a
woman makes a slow left out into
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me and we're both OK.
Like get on.
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Are you OK?
Stick?
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Yeah.
I'm like, what was that?
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What are you doing?
It's like you're not, you're
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clearly not drunk.
You're not inebriated.
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Like, what was that?
She's like, oh, I don't know.
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I just, you know, I shouldn't be
driving this early.
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But I got tank ran for the car
and I paid like 4500 bucks for
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it.
So she lasted.
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She she did, she did a good job.
And then I was like, I could do
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this for a living.
You know, this is a great way to
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make a living.
But how'd you like grow up in
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Florida?
I thought it was.
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It was nice.
It was the 80s, so I was born in
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1984 and I thought Florida in
the 80s was great.
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That's all I really knew.
My grandparents live close to
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us, all my cousins live on the
same street with us.
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So it was like a happy.
I mean, I now looking back on
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it, see it as kind of like a
small town upbringing, except it
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wasn't a small town and we
didn't know differently, but we
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had a very traditional family
oriented experience.
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Yeah.
And so my wife is from Illinois.
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She's actually from a small town
village even.
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Yeah.
And so.
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So we all live on the same St.
in Miami.
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And her and her family, they
don't live on this just on the
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same street.
They live on the same land.
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Wow, That's cool.
So that's like actual small
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town.
Yeah.
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Yeah.
But our bringings are very
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similar.
Sure, Very similar.
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The most important things are
family, friendship, community,
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even beyond family.
So our neighbors that you know,
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yeah, that's that's how I grew
up.
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Our neighbors were family to us.
Sure.
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That's how Gayla grew up.
Her neighbors were family.
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And we're trying to create the
same thing here.
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Yeah, me too, man.
I grew up like that too.
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And my dad actually grew up in
Miami also in the 80s.
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He grew up on 43rd and Pine Tree
and he's one of six and didn't
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have a ton of family near them,
but they were enough personality
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themselves, you know, and, and
you know, the Miami Beach Jewish
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community from the 70s and 80s
was very small.
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And so they're also, you know,
everyone knew one another and
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like as time went on, they all
kind of branched out and moved
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on.
But you know, like you like, you
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know, my dad's always still
excited to like hear random
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names.
My neighbor over here, 2 houses
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down his our grandparents are
friends and we currently have
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kids the same age and he lives
two houses down from me.
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So it's 4 generations of our,
you know, Stern and Hershman's
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that are just like just friends
and living like down the block
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from one another, you know, and
like we're just talking about it
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this weekend.
It's really cool.
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It's a beautiful thing.
I feel like a lot of people
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don't have that, you know,
degree his.
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Family was from Miami Beach.
Yeah, it's.
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Awesome.
Yeah.
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I mean, they, they, my
grandfather was from Brooklyn
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originally, but after he did, he
got, he went to medical school
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and then during I guess the
Korean War, I think he
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volunteered, He didn't want to
get drafted and he wanted to
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volunteer and pick where he was
going to go and to avoid and to
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avoid getting drafted and sent
abroad.
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And they went in San Antonio for
a couple of years and then they
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relocated to Miami.
But that they've been there
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since, yeah, late 70s, early
80s.
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And I don't think anyone ever
looked back.
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They, they still live there now
and he's gonna die in that
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house.
He loves that place, you know,
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like it's, it's and it's nice.
It's beautiful.
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I used to, I, I growing up, I'd
go to my dad's old bedroom and
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go through his stuff and like,
see what he had as a kid and
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like, he found a scrapbook of
old girlfriends he used to keep
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and stuff like that.
My mom flipped the shit about
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but you know, like.
Yeah, like pictures of.
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The yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like humor.
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I was like, this was Jerry.
She was the best looking girl on
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the grade.
And this is like, you know, and
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yeah, it's Polaroid just legit
like that.
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And I was like, she's like, what
is this still here for?
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But what was what was moving to
Vegas like?
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So I was, it was.
So my birthday's in August and
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we moved in, let's say July.
So I think I was 15 technically,
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but when school started I was 16
and.
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You were going to be a junior.
Rising junior Rising junior and
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I've gone to the same school
since 6th grade and I'd always
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lived in the same house.
And my older sister is she was
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probably, she had just graduated
from high school, so she was
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going to be going to school in
LA and then my 2 younger sisters
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were like in middle school.
So what was it like moving to
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Vegas?
I was actually excited about it.
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And, you know, in hindsight, I
think that's interesting because
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it was in the middle of high
school and I really had no
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problem just picking up and
moving across the country not
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knowing anyone.
My SO I think I had no problem
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with it for two reasons.
One of my parents made it easy
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because I moved in the
summertime before school started
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and like, joined my basketball
team OK during the summer.
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Oh, cool.
I met friends and my teammates
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back before school started.
So that was huge cred my parents
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for that.
I think the other thing is that
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my personality just kind of is
open to change and I still have
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the same view.
So at the time, to be honest, I
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didn't really think anything of
it really.
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I had my my good friends in
Miami.
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They're still my my good friends
today.
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Sure, and let's go.
That's so interesting, though,
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especially because, all right,
when you were growing up with
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all your like cousins and
everything all around you, did
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you think you were going to miss
that or did you think like, ah,
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you know, that was fun, but
like, let's try something new.
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You're a teenager.
What I thought and what happened
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was they'll visit and they did
and we'll and we'll visit home
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and we do.
How'd you like Vegas?
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What was that like?
It's a cool place.
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It's it's a magical place in a
lot of ways, but I think for a
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kid then this is like 2000.
What year was this?
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2000 Vegas were still New South.
My high school in Las Vegas was
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only 10 years old from when it
was built.
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Wow, cool.
Compared with in Miami, schools
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go back decades and decades.
Sure.
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So it was a modern city, very
suburban.
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We lived in Henderson.
Yeah.
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And.
It's cheap.
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It still is today.
And I and I didn't have a
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perspective of that, but yeah,
we went from our house in Miami,
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which is a lovely, you know,
lovely small home in a lovely
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neighborhood to two-story house.
Crazy and.
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My first job was at a rec center
down the street from a high
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school, so.
Did you work as you had to or
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because you wanted to?
Or both.
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Definitely wanted to.
I didn't have to to like pay any
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bills or anything.
Yeah, but I would pay for gas in
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my car.
Yeah, yeah, the fun, the fun
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stuff, the fun stuff.
And like you.
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Know our parents never said you
have to get a job they're more
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00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,240
like you have to do your
homework yeah.
227
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,520
And I was a pretty serious
athlete.
228
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,200
So it was, it was, it was extra,
but it was important to me to.
229
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,120
And you stayed for college,
right?
230
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,360
Working.
You like working?
231
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,000
Yeah.
He's like feeling productive.
232
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,000
It's crazy.
I mean, it means that you like.
233
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,560
Sure, you like.
So what about you like the work
234
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,200
that you do?
Or you like the feeling of
235
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,680
working and being productive?
Or you like both?
236
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,920
You like both?
I like the work that I do, but
237
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,120
if I didn't do this work, I
would do some different work.
238
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,920
OK.
And at that time I was a gym
239
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:59,640
monitor at a rec center and my
job was to set the the cones up.
240
00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,000
And the.
Kids camp to clean up and I was
241
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,600
very social.
That's another aspect of work
242
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,320
that I like The, the, the
connection with other people,
243
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,840
whether it's your your
colleagues or even the, the, the
244
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,120
kids who come to the direct.
The families were my part of my
245
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,280
tribe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
246
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,480
I one of the hardest things
about my job, even one of the
247
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,720
best things and hardest things
that it's completely remote
248
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,080
pretty much right.
So I do sales, you know, and I
249
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,880
communicate with the warehouse
100 times a day and, you know,
250
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,640
make sure everything gets that.
I sell medical equipment,
251
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,280
ultrasounds and patient monitors
and stuff.
252
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,840
And you know, I'm communicating
at the warehouse.
253
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,840
I'm dealing with customers, but
everything can be done on the
254
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,760
computer on my phone, But I was
just sitting in my living room
255
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,480
all day for 10-12 hours and I'm
like, I'm going to go crazy.
256
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,840
I actually picked up, started
picking up part time teaching
257
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,080
just to get out, just to like go
and interact with my I, I was
258
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,840
going crazy.
I'm a very social person and it
259
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,240
drove me nuts to just be at home
with just, you know, the phone
260
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,800
and A and a blue screen all day.
You know, it drove me crazy.
261
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,600
Who?
Are the customers.
262
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,640
Generally private practices, the
equipment we sell are
263
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,360
refurbished.
So a new ultrasound machine
264
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,000
could run anywhere from like if
it's a regular machine you see
265
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,320
like in the movie and the TV
shows or whatever could run
266
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,360
anywhere from like 75 to 150
grand.
267
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,840
The average cost of the machine
that I sell is probably closer
268
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,000
to 12 to 15.
And I think that a lot of
269
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,480
doctors are like, I think
especially private practices
270
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,440
aren't making as as much money
as they used to.
271
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,640
And actually one of the reasons
my dad got into it was because
272
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,760
it was pretty much economy
proof, right?
273
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,360
Because times are bad, no one's
buying anything new.
274
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,520
And in times you're good,
there's always people that are
275
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,960
looking to get a deal anyway,
you know, and, and especially a
276
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,320
doctor that understands that an
ultrasound is an ultrasound and
277
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,440
a pictures, a picture, they're
not going to fall for that
278
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,480
$150,000 scam.
You know, they're going to say,
279
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,720
well, I get the exact same thing
for 20 grands or 25 maybe if I
280
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,800
want to splurge.
So why would I go ahead and do
281
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,880
that?
So it's pretty, I mean, it was,
282
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,720
it was phenomenal of my dad that
he did that.
283
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,680
But yeah, so that's so so and
then sometimes universities,
284
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,840
sometimes hospitals or the
hospitals have a tendency.
285
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,960
They just have unlimited budget.
They just, you know, they got
286
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,480
everything new.
And but I was just going crazy
287
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,960
being at home, you know, and
it's funny because I'm very
288
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,720
social, but I'm super shy about
initiating a conversation.
289
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,640
And, you know, once you give me
that little space, like once you
290
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120
like say, oh, hey, what's up?
Then like I'll pounce, you know,
291
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,440
like I'm totally comfortable.
But like, I could sit next to
292
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,680
you for two hours and I'd say a
word to you until you give me
293
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,720
that initial like green light
that like it's OK to talk, you
294
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,800
know, so I'm not a door to door
salesman kind of guy.
295
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,080
And so most of my sales come
from Google ads where I have a
296
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,960
company that manages, you know,
the people searching keywords.
297
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,480
I, you know, what pop up, we bid
for it.
298
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,080
So you pay $0.50 a dollar, $2.00
per click.
299
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,680
So, you know, we come up to I
think the first three ads on
300
00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:01,120
Google are always paid.
The first three search results
301
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,080
on Google are paid ads.
Not everyone realizes that, but
302
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,480
most of the time if you're
buying something, you're not
303
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,000
getting past the first three web
pages, web links anyway.
304
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000
So I, so I figure it's worth it.
And all my leads are hot leads
305
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,600
because anyone that calls me has
opted to go to my website, click
306
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,720
call or get a price or, you
know, you want to find out about
307
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,040
what, you know, why this machine
costs XY and Z and whatever it
308
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,880
is.
So I'm already getting that
309
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,080
green light from the time my
phone rings and I'm totally
310
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,600
happy to deal with that.
You know cold calling is
311
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,040
exhausting.
What's the company called?
312
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320
It's called absolute medical
equipment.
313
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,840
So what do I Google to get you
as my top link on the on my?
314
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,240
Feed you can search refurbished
GE ultrasound, refurbished
315
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,880
patient monitor, refurbished
DEXA machine.
316
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,760
A lot of people are buying DEXA
for health purposes now.
317
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,320
A lot of people are trying to
get their body fat, you know,
318
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,040
composition and they're trying
to get the whole body scans.
319
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,240
And we, I think, thank God,
we're really living in like, I
320
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,880
feel like an awakening in terms
of health, in terms of just, you
321
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,280
know, people realizing like, I
just can't keep living like
322
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,600
this, you know, and, and it's
great.
323
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,840
I think it's a beautiful thing,
you know, but most of the Duxes
324
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,840
that I sell now are to gyms and
to fitness centers and to
325
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,160
holistic doctors and stuff like
that.
326
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,640
And, and it's also not it's out
of pocket.
327
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,520
It's not insurance.
So, so it's a cash business,
328
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,480
which a lot of people like and
then a lot of 3D40 baby
329
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,840
ultrasound studios you go to the
way we go to one of those.
330
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,160
No, Yeah, I'll do they're.
Freaking man into the regular.
331
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,680
Yeah, so the doctor.
So if you haven't, if you have
332
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,040
another kid, let me know and
we'll bring over one of these 3D
333
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,280
machines and we could show you
the baby in 3D and you could see
334
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,400
it's you could see it's it's
features.
335
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,840
You see it's nose, it's eyes,
it's lips, the shape of its
336
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,920
ears.
You see everything you see.
337
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,720
And it's kind of freaky because
song like yellow and like black
338
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,280
and whatever, but it's cool.
It's cool.
339
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,320
Yeah, my wife refused to do it
for this kid.
340
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,320
So.
So Vegas.
341
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,080
So you went to Vegas?
Sorry, I I get distracted to be
342
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,200
ramble.
You went to Vegas and you and
343
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,920
you love it.
I do still love it.
344
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,000
You still love it.
I don't get back as much as I'd
345
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,720
like, but I still love it.
You still have like a life that
346
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,520
back there that you.
No, I've been gone a long time.
347
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,000
Yeah.
So I graduated from high school
348
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:23,480
in 2002, college 2006 and went
to DC for law school and went to
349
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,600
Florida in 2011.
OK, so between those times,
350
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,640
first of all, I know you play
college ball.
351
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:30,600
I want to talk to you about
that.
352
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,320
Why did you decide to go to law
school?
353
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,120
That's that's the the dream job.
Like that's what I thought I
354
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,800
would always do when I was a
kid, so.
355
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:42,640
Like.
Prestigious.
356
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,040
Like I would say if you asked me
probably when I was 17, what are
357
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:46,960
you going to do when you grow
up?
358
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,160
I would have said be a criminal
defense lawyer or an NBA
359
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,520
basketball player.
Yeah.
360
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,040
And you know, I don't even know
if I had the the physical
361
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,240
ability to be a super good
basketball players, to be a
362
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,119
professional.
I didn't have like the emotional
363
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,599
or mental drive to be a
tremendous basketball player.
364
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,280
No, I really didn't and I don't
know why.
365
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,400
Did you love the game?
Actually talk about that because
366
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,480
so Gayla was a soccer player and
she played in college as well
367
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,200
and she would have done anything
to keep playing soccer, but she
368
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,040
had injuries.
I never really had any serious
369
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:27,640
injuries but I I stopped playing
at UNLV just like decided I was
370
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,680
finished and then played again.
Went to Alaska, had a year of
371
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,160
eligibility.
Left in Alaska.
372
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,520
You played.
I did university.
373
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,280
University of Alaska.
Get out of here.
374
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,920
Decided I was finished.
I did Alaska.
375
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,480
Like Alaska?
I've been dying to get over
376
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,040
there, actually.
Did you like it?
377
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:45,800
It was interesting.
Isn't.
378
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:53,360
It crazy.
Alaska's not like at 21.
379
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,000
It's not a did you like it kind
of place.
380
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,320
It's just interesting place and
where I was was was so cold and
381
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,120
dark.
I mean, it was like.
382
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,640
Death throw you off?
I was going to ask that.
383
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,880
Like perpetual darkness or?
Light it was like my I have to
384
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,240
think longer to figure out like
what author I I want to like
385
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,720
compare this to.
OK, it was.
386
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,400
Like it was like.
It was like my coming of age in
387
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,200
a way.
Sure.
388
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,400
So.
Because it was challenging,
389
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,400
yeah.
Like Miami, Vegas, I had
390
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,600
difficult circumstances at every
chapter, but Alaska was was
391
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,800
lonely.
So whatever, whatever I went
392
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,720
through when I was a kid,
whatever I went through until I
393
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,120
was 2021, my family was always
close by.
394
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,360
Yeah, my friends were always
close by.
395
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,240
Alaska was geographically.
Isolating.
396
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,040
Super far and.
It's a 5 hour difference too,
397
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,880
right?
I'll give you an example that's
398
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,360
that still resonates even though
it's been forever.
399
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,800
Katrina happened while I was
there and family in New Orleans.
400
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,280
My dad's from Louisiana, and it
was like global news how
401
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,200
terrible this tragedy was.
I would see the newspaper that
402
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,880
talked about the tragedy in New
Orleans and it was like watching
403
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,160
a movie.
It wasn't real.
404
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,480
That's how far away I was.
It was like reading about
405
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,760
something like in a zombie
apocalypse film.
406
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:33,040
And that is one thing I remember
being so different about my life
407
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,680
experience up to that point was
it was geographically far.
408
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,480
It was culturally far.
It's brutally cold in the winter
409
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,360
time.
And this is metaphoric more than
410
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,960
literal, but you can only see
what's right in front of your
411
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,120
face.
What is that called?
412
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,760
Literally like you go outside
and you're like trying to find
413
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,800
the car door.
Yeah, that's the closest thing
414
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,800
that you can get to.
Take that and apply that to
415
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,680
life.
Yeah.
416
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,600
Everything else is like, I
wasn't literally in survival
417
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,840
mode.
I lived in an apartment.
418
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,000
We had heat.
Yeah, of course.
419
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,840
But yeah.
At school, I could eat the
420
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,800
cafeteria, but beyond that, it
was really, really bizarre.
421
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:22,600
And so I remember my sisters
being like, you're a lot.
422
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,080
You're a lot more serious of a
person.
423
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,600
And they didn't even mean like
serious demeanor.
424
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,200
They meant like, you're not like
a jokester.
425
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,320
Like you actually have goals
now?
426
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,160
Since you got there.
Since I came home from there, so
427
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,200
I was there for one school year.
Because I bet.
428
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,440
I bet.
Because the loneliness kind of
429
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,160
forces you to confront you, you
know, like who you are.
430
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,080
You have to get, you have to
deal with it.
431
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,120
That's a fact.
Yeah, it's, by the way, it's so
432
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,000
great that that.
I mean, I don't know if I would
433
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,800
like envy that, you know?
But don't you know, but but I
434
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,520
please.
Yeah, but I.
435
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,760
Yeah, don't envy it and don't
and and don't do it.
436
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,440
Don't.
Go to Alaska.
437
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,880
Well, no, I've been lonely for a
year.
438
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,200
I've been, you know, when I
moved to Seattle, it was
439
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,120
actually, so I've had a lot of
loneliness in my life.
440
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,640
And one of the probably the
valuable thing I got out of
441
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,440
college was I got a creative
writing literature degree.
442
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760
The valuable thing was learning
how to take the everything I was
443
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,480
bouncing around in my head into
my body, my guts and put it to
444
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,040
what it put words to it, you
know, And so when I'm
445
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,840
confronted, you know, and so I
learned that certain emotional
446
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480
weights, you know, when you feel
the weight of anxiety, you feel
447
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,880
the weight of loneliness or
isolation that those weights
448
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,480
actually have words that could
manif, you know, manifest what
449
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,040
they are and express what they
are.
450
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,640
And when you do that, you kind
of discover why you are feeling
451
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,600
what you're feeling, you know,
and where, where it's coming
452
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,520
from and who you are, you know,
and I would never have had that
453
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,440
if I didn't have that loneliness
and having that.
454
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,720
And with that understanding, I
from my, from not, you know, for
455
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,960
sure based on my other, you
know, I've been in a 2 1/2 year
456
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,640
relationship.
I've been in a year, a year long
457
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,160
relationship that was very
serious.
458
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,680
My marriage would have been
miserable if I didn't have the
459
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,040
opportunity to really discover
like who I am and like
460
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,320
understand myself so that I
could be eloquent and articulate
461
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,280
about the big things in life
that you got to go through with
462
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,920
the spouse.
You know, and even though it's
463
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,840
really, really painful and
challenging and difficult, I
464
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,840
think that you kind of peel back
a lot of the outside layers of
465
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,640
child like childishness,
childishness or childhood.
466
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,280
And like that really helps
convert you into a man.
467
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,560
Like you say, you said that
you're much more serious, you
468
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,040
know, not demeanor, but like you
know yourself now, like you know
469
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,400
what you're looking for.
You know, it's amazing.
470
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:00,960
I was.
I still was.
471
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,280
Figuring out what I was looking
for, but I was different at 21
472
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,640
than I was at 19 or 20 for sure.
Like that?
473
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,680
What was playing ball there
like?
474
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,880
So basketball actually was more
fun for me there than it was at
475
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:20,480
UNLVUNLV was was an honor.
I was I was very grateful to get
476
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,720
to play there.
And it was like, and we we were
477
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,960
never like an elite program
during that time.
478
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,320
But that's because UNLV was
still paying for having not
479
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,440
followed the rules to become an
elite program in the 90s.
480
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,640
So we were still probation and
always being supervised by the
481
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,560
NCAA.
A lot of things have changed
482
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,760
these days.
But what I'm going with this is,
483
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,600
you know, it was literally
fireworks.
484
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,360
Like there was a fire show
really, for home games.
485
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,760
That's so cool.
And I'm so blessed my parents
486
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,280
could come to every game at
home.
487
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,240
Yeah, I had one sister who was
still in high school, so she
488
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,840
could come when she wasn't doing
other things.
489
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,680
That's fine.
Alaska was in America, but
490
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,920
across the world and there was
no fireworks.
491
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:14,040
And it was a lot more akin to
like a high level high school
492
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,400
program in the sense that the
only fans are local people.
493
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,840
And we actually had some like
sold out games, but it was like
494
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,920
the people from Fairbanks, AK.
Yeah, it wasn't.
495
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,400
Like sure you.
Know.
496
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,680
What are the people?
They're like, They nice, really
497
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,120
like just kind of, you know
what?
498
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,440
I.
Can see I mean you.
499
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,200
Go in different cities, you get
different, you get different
500
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,480
personas.
You know, I mean like your
501
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,520
wife's from Illinois if I can.
Compare it having spent some
502
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:48,040
time in the Midwest, Fairbanks,
AK's like Topeka, KS, OK, if
503
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,280
that helps.
OK, so it's, it's, it's much
504
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,560
further away.
The the temperatures are, are
505
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,400
brutal in the winter is -50
everyday -40 to -60 was the
506
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,440
range so that people who choose
to remain in an environment like
507
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,080
this.
So they're not the same as
508
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,960
people in Illinois or Kansas or
anywhere else Indiana, but their
509
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,200
warmth.
I think to be honest, I think in
510
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,960
Hollywood we have a lot of
simplicity.
511
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,400
Like people want to have give
their kids a good life, they
512
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,200
want to have friends, they want
to laugh, they want to enjoy
513
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,480
things.
That's kind of similar to how
514
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,720
Alaska was, but on a more
extreme scale because it took a
515
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,040
lot of work to have basic
things, especially during the
516
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,400
winter time.
So that's how I would describe
517
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,640
it.
I think the people there were
518
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:50,720
were great.
They were great and I think no,
519
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,040
nothing really extreme stands
out to me in terms of highs or
520
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080
lows.
Everybody was just nice, normal.
521
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:59,600
It took.
Well, they had boots.
522
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,440
On all the time like that coats.
I could wear a ski mask.
523
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,000
How do you prepare for I could.
Wear a ski mask in a bank.
524
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,320
Everyone did it right.
It was.
525
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,640
Mr. Osborne, how can we?
That was a big difference.
526
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,680
That was a funny difference.
So funny.
527
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,040
It's so funny.
Don't do twice about it.
528
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,160
Before your generation, a little
bit, but young Buck was a rapper
529
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,440
and he's in Gu and it was $0.50
in them.
530
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,480
But on his album cover, he has
like a ski mask on, but he's
531
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,360
from like, Tennessee or
something.
532
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And not where, right, But you
533
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,040
could pull the ski mask on and
walk around and nobody was
534
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,240
suspicious of you.
One, because it was cold, but
535
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,480
two, because nobody's yeah, the
bank.
536
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,280
Yeah, yeah, I'm at the crime
rate I'm at.
537
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,560
The crime rate was real low,
right?
538
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,240
You weed out the criminals real
quickly.
539
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,000
You spend 2 days in the winter
here like nothing that anyone
540
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:55,480
here has is worth it.
They move.
541
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,400
They move to Vegas, they moved
to Nevada, they moved to LA,
542
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,840
they moved wherever that the
weather.
543
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Is last is not the place for
shenanigans.
544
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly.
I had a couple of customers
545
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,000
there.
I really wanted to go.
546
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,800
And when I was living in
Seattle, I was like, I wonder
547
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,240
how far it is to drive.
It would take too far.
548
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,160
The same amount of time as it
took for me to go from New York
549
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
just to Washington.
So far Cross.
550
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,560
Country is how far Alaska is
from Washington.
551
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,840
You know he.
Drove When I moved there, my dad
552
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,760
and I drove from Vegas to the
Port of Washington, OK.
553
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,160
And then we took a ferry.
That's a.
554
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,960
That's a.
Probably 16 hour drive.
555
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,520
I don't remember exactly, but it
was a long drive.
556
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,360
It was long, Yeah.
From Vegas to Port of
557
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,720
Washington, it took us, we
stopped reasonably.
558
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,200
So I think it might have taken
US 24 hours, OK or so on the
559
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,800
road.
And then we took a ferry 3 days
560
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,440
and three nights.
Wow to Haines, AK and then
561
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560
drove, can't remember exactly
now it's been so long, but I
562
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160
think another day wow to
Fairbanks.
563
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,680
So that was interesting too,
because one, we got to spend a
564
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,680
lot of a lot of quality time
together as a dad.
565
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,680
Now, my dad was a, he's, he's
retired now, but he was an
566
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,520
engineer and like very much a
busy professional.
567
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,360
It probably took us a week to
get to Alaska and he was able to
568
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,800
to spend that time to move me to
a second college.
569
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,400
Crazy.
And I cherished the trip, but
570
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600
also Tom, I appreciate it, but I
appreciate it even more now.
571
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:35,280
And I, I think easy, easy
decision for us, like if our
572
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,480
kid, if our oldest, he's 4 now,
in 14 years, wants to go to
573
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,640
school in Ireland or wherever
you're going to make that work.
574
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,400
But that's something I don't
take for granted.
575
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,680
And the other thing about the
distance was it was the
576
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440
summertime.
And in Alaska it was the summer,
577
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,120
but it was cold.
And where I lived in Alaska, it
578
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,840
was light all the time in the
summer.
579
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,800
And then in the winter time,
it's dark.
580
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,920
Yeah.
That's the other element of the.
581
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
It throws you off.
Loneliness slash.
582
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,920
Seasonal depression.
Despair.
583
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,080
Yeah, it's, uh, it's tough.
And it wasn't that tough.
584
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Like I knew I was going home in
Bay, so it wasn't that tough,
585
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,440
but still it was tough.
Yeah, yeah.
586
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,520
Because your our brains are
wired circuit, you know, they're
587
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,880
not wired to not have daylight
for the very three months or
588
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,240
five months or whatever it is.
Like, yeah, I know in Seattle
589
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960
that people used to get seasonal
depression from the from the
590
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,800
from the mist.
I kind of I, I understood that.
591
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,040
And they would get like these
UV, like these lamps that have
592
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,320
like this extra high, like UV or
extra bright or something like
593
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,040
that.
That apparently is supposed to
594
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,440
be a little better to like make
you feel like it's a little more
595
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,840
natural.
But it's I found that will help
596
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,600
to mitigate which Seattle you
could do, but you can't in
597
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,240
Alaska is actually to go for
walks and like just be outside
598
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,040
and get that like fresh air and
like really be with nature.
599
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600
And like even though it kind of
sucks that there's no light or
600
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120
not a lot of sunlight, at least
you're out with like you feel
601
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,280
like your whole system is
resetting.
602
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,120
But -40 negative 60.
What do you even where you just,
603
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,120
you just put on layer after
layer after layer.
604
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,200
Then you go to the gym and you
take off layer after layer delay
605
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,240
you just long.
Johns sweats at the time.
606
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:29,280
It's close with bag gear.
Yeah, so pocket warmers.
607
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,920
Pocket warmers, Little Yeah,
those are great.
608
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,840
Shoes in your in your pockets,
in your coat pocket.
609
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,760
But you don't.
You don't go outside, really.
610
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,520
I mean you.
You go to the car, from the car
611
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,400
to the gym to the grocery store,
wherever you're headed, and you
612
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,800
hope for the best, go for the
best.
613
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,400
There was there were times.
One time I had AI was out at
614
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,160
night.
I was going to see my little
615
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,200
brother from the Big Brothers.
Little Brothers.
616
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,160
Yeah.
Big Sisters.
617
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,680
Big Brothers, Big Sisters thing
program.
618
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,280
His name is KJ You.
Do that in Alaska.
619
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,480
I did, yeah.
And I was coming home from
620
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,120
seeing his him and his family
that lived in North Pole, AK.
621
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,360
I don't.
Even know what that is, but it
622
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,440
just sounds awful.
It's North Pole.
623
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,080
It's a town near Fairbanks, OK.
That north of it I bet, right?
624
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,120
I don't.
Really.
625
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:22,240
Remember, it was called North
Pole and it wasn't that it was
626
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720
colder in North Pole, but there
were no St. lights.
627
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,360
So I was leaving there and I was
like lost.
628
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,120
And I had like this is flip
phone days, had very limited
629
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,080
cell service.
And I wasn't really panicking,
630
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200
but it was a fact that I had to
find my way home.
631
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,760
Yeah.
Because you don't make it if you
632
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,320
don't.
Yeah.
633
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,720
And I don't, I don't remember
being that panicked about it.
634
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Like, I remember driving around
and being like, all right, let
635
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:48,840
me.
Yeah.
636
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,880
You try to retrace your staff,
but everything's like Frozen St.
637
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Everything looks the same.
And eventually I made it out to
638
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,080
whatever the main road was.
Or maybe I saw a car, followed
639
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,560
that car and they led to, like,
where the highway was.
640
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,960
But the reality was that you
slide off the ice into the
641
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,840
ditch, your car breaks down,
you're finished.
642
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,840
Yeah, tonight's the night.
Yeah, you see God tonight
643
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,960
because.
Yeah, wow.
644
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,640
It's crazy.
Yeah, it's so that aspect of it
645
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,720
is interesting too.
Like in Miami, you you can see
646
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,520
yourself dying any number of
ways.
647
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Sure, in Alaska you see yourself
potentially dying a number of
648
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,600
other ways, but there's no
overlap.
649
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,600
No, no, no, no.
It's got to have an impact on
650
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,800
the ecology of people that live
there.
651
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,720
It's got to make you a different
breed of human being, you know,
652
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,520
and I'm sure you know, for
better, for worse, in different
653
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,960
ways, you know, but got to be
crazy.
654
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,120
So people, I think it's been
many, many years.
655
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,120
I left there in 2006.
But I think people, people look
656
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,000
out for each other.
You see a car pulled over, you
657
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
stop.
Yeah.
658
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,280
You to check on them.
Yeah.
659
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,800
Here.
You know, right.
660
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,600
Like you breeze by.
Yeah.
661
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,120
My other thing.
About it picked up a hitchhiker
662
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,760
really and I don't remember that
it was that cold that night but
663
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640
we picked up a hitchhiker and
like gave him a ride it's a
664
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,280
different place it's different
and I think humans are the same
665
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,440
but the circumstances are so
different that you have to
666
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,800
there's.
Different moral code, almost
667
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,520
like a social code.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
668
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,240
And you don't want to be the guy
to ruin it for everyone.
669
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,240
Like no one wants to be the guy
that ruins it and no one else
670
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,760
could hitchhike, you know,
because.
671
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,720
Yeah, it's if you're out on the
road at night.
672
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,120
And that guy, I don't, I don't
remember being that cold that
673
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,800
night, that particular night,
but the night that I was coming
674
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,320
home from K JS house.
Yeah, that was crazy.
675
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,080
I was all right.
I didn't need a hitchhike.
676
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,560
But if I did, I really.
Yeah.
677
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,520
Yeah, yeah, I really needed a
ride.
678
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Yeah.
Wow.
679
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,640
So you were in Alaska for a
year?
680
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,280
One school year.
So I moved there in like the
681
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,160
summer and I graduated from
school.
682
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,800
Actually, I finished did.
You get your degree from UNLV.
683
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,560
Alaska.
Really.
684
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,400
Even though most of your credits
were from UNLV?
685
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Yeah.
So I had to do summer school.
686
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,159
So if school finished, will say
in May, I did summer school from
687
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,639
May to August.
Yeah, to get over the threshold
688
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,239
of credits.
Yeah, that you need to graduate.
689
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,400
Graduate from Alaska because I
would have had to, I mean, but I
690
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520
had another year of eligibility.
I would have had to go back to
691
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,000
Alaska.
Yeah, for another year.
692
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,400
I guess or go back to UNLV, But
it's what I did instead was I
693
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,440
took summer school, finished at
Alaska, then I would say UNLV
694
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,159
for a master's degree in
communication, Then I went to
695
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,199
law school in Georgetown.
Why did you get the master's
696
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:38,040
degree?
I had to get ready for law
697
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,360
school.
Yeah.
698
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,600
So you were doing it like while
you're studying for the LSAT and
699
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,920
you're, so you're basically
filling time, but responsibly,
700
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,800
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I had three jobs.
701
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,560
Really.
You know, doing.
702
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,520
I had a job at the amphitheater
selling tickets and picking up
703
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,840
popcorn.
OK, selling well, selling
704
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,280
tickets, selling popcorn, and
then sweeping up the popcorn at
705
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:57,920
the end of.
The night.
706
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,960
Nice, nice.
I taught public speaking at
707
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,960
UNLV.
Nice.
708
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,840
Really.
As a graduate.
709
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,280
Assistant.
That's fun to.
710
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,680
To freshmen and my third job was
at the United States Attorney's
711
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,120
office in Las Vegas, which is
when I discovered what it meant
712
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,720
to be a federal prosecutor,
right?
713
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,720
So that that two years was
preparation for law school.
714
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,960
But it changed my life in the
sense that I actually found my
715
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,640
purpose, at least when it comes
to being a lawyer, right?
716
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,560
Like, I wanted to be a lawyer
since I was a little boy.
717
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,760
Most of that understanding what
a lawyer was came from TV.
718
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Sure, either like, like
television shows or the news.
719
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,200
Yeah.
But working at the US Attorney's
720
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:55,910
office showed me, like, what?
Everyone calls the lawyers
721
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:59,310
heroes.
Yeah, so funny.
722
00:35:59,310 --> 00:36:03,110
OK, before I I want to, I want
to get to the law, but who are
723
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:06,390
who are your basketball heroes
and what was your playing style
724
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:07,430
like?
What would you play That's?
725
00:36:08,110 --> 00:36:11,280
Funny, I'll start with the the
playing style.
726
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,000
OK, do.
You remember Michael Finley?
727
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,080
Yeah, sure.
From Memphis, Right.
728
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,480
Mavericks.
Mavericks.
729
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,000
Right, right, right.
He wasn't in Memphis ever.
730
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,080
Maybe.
OK, yes, but yeah, sure.
731
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,200
When I was in high school, he
played for The Mavericks.
732
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,480
OK, that's the championship team
with Dirk and.
733
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,040
I'm not sure.
OK.
734
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,200
Anyway, yeah, Michael Finley.
He played, he played the three.
735
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,000
He's a lot taller than I like,
Probably 6-8 is my guess, but he
736
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,560
would shoot like from the wings.
He was a slasher.
737
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,120
Yeah, that's right.
Occasional 3 point shooter, but
738
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,880
I I thought as a kid that my
game was kind of modeled after
739
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:53,800
his and in terms of.
He's a good player, he's fun.
740
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,200
I remember playing with him in
two KA lot with with my younger
741
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,520
brothers.
He was drafted by the Sons,
742
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,480
played for The Mavericks, the
Spurs and eventually the Celtics
743
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,680
won the championship in O 7 to
to your.
744
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,440
Question.
There you go.
745
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,320
Right.
Yeah.
746
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,040
So that's one of my benefits.
I don't know why I'm thinking
747
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,840
that so.
I mean, I liked a lot of players
748
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,880
but but.
They're players that like what
749
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520
they did, like they, you know,
they have like the way they play
750
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,400
is like a link, like a like,
almost like a personal, like
751
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,160
fresh games.
Michael Jordan was definitely my
752
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,400
year.
I had the VHS tapes, yeah.
753
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,680
And when I was a kid, we didn't
really watch TV during the week,
754
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,000
OK, but I could watch the Bulls
game if it was on.
755
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,720
That's good.
I had an exception for the Bulls
756
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:36,120
games if my homework was done,
sure, as a kid.
757
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,920
So Michael Jordan for sure.
It's probably it to be honest,
758
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,480
because.
You weren't a huge NBA fan.
759
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,480
You just loved basketball.
You just.
760
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,000
Couldn't I liked the Bulls, I
liked Michael Jordan, not just
761
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,640
his play.
He was just an inspirational
762
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,120
figure.
He overcame adversity.
763
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,360
His dad died.
Like I think a lot of the
764
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,440
narrative around his career is
like a narrative that can
765
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,320
motivate you in life outside of
basketball.
766
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,560
And I think that's what a lot of
athletes these days, not that
767
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,400
they're missing it because I
think they're doing fine, but
768
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,280
that to me is a different.
Some people compare like this
769
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,760
generation to the old
generation.
770
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,040
I don't compare like their
skills.
771
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,960
I think this generation's skills
are obviously better, but
772
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,640
they're like cultural impact is
unparalleled.
773
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,120
What do you think?
Why do you think that is?
774
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:34,520
Storytelling has changed and
access has changed.
775
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,920
I think we we see too much these
days.
776
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Yeah, it's better to see them
as, like hidden figures that are
777
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,280
like these heroes on the court.
Yeah.
778
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,400
Well, he he was a So to use
Michael Jordan as an example, he
779
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,960
was a hero on and off the court
because like in the in the best
780
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,840
movies, the hero is imperfect,
has flaws.
781
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,240
Yeah.
Gambles too much, right?
782
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:58,600
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
783
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,560
Yeah, and that's what the press
would say.
784
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:08,040
Loses a family member and is
like in the in the in the tunnel
785
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,600
holding the the trophy, like
boohoo, crying with his
786
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,400
teammates, like on top of him.
Yeah, yeah.
787
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Yeah, yeah.
I've never experienced that,
788
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,000
Yeah.
But there's a there's a humanity
789
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,560
in that that everyone can relate
to.
790
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,720
Yeah.
And that to me hasn't been
791
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,480
replicated.
Even if the players that have
792
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,520
come after him, you know, if
they played one-on-one, you
793
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,280
know, 1997 athlete versus the
2025 athlete, sure, sure.
794
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,960
The 25 athlete has the
advantage, right.
795
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,240
It's.
Just obvious.
796
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,080
Well, they were like they were,
they were sweeping, especially
797
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,600
when I was growing up.
Like cultural basketball
798
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,880
moments, at least, you know, one
moment that I was that was
799
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,040
personally devastated about.
I was so sad.
800
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,640
Steve, nationally, my favorite
players.
801
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,560
I just love that he was kind of
passed first, but could also do
802
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,840
everything else.
And so like, he didn't need to
803
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,240
pass first, but he just chose
to.
804
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:04,440
And I thought that was really
cool.
805
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,080
And, and how good he was in
soccer.
806
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,720
I thought it was so much fun
that he could have played either
807
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:09,720
sport.
Super cool.
808
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,280
Yeah.
And and then there's one year
809
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,080
where it was one of his last
years that like, he was going to
810
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,800
like, he was clearly like
getting older and like, and
811
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,560
they're playing the Lakers.
It was him.
812
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,320
I think it was Amari and Shaq
against the league was in the
813
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,600
win the championship that year.
They played the magic with
814
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,720
Dwight Howard and Jamir Nelson
and the whole team and and I
815
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:39,040
think the sons lost in seven and
like Steve Nash crying at that
816
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,040
at the end of that game.
And like I was like, this guy's
817
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,880
not going to get a chance chance
to he's not going to win the
818
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,080
championship.
The rest of it, like, also it's
819
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,120
so sad, you know, but then also
like when LeBron and Chris Bosh
820
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,280
came to the Heat, you know, like
that was like culturally
821
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,800
shattering like that like was
felt everywhere.
822
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,720
I feel like, you know, umm, I
mean, maybe my own little world,
823
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,280
you know, but it just felt like
everyone, everyone was talking
824
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,640
about AT shirts were everywhere,
sweatshirts were everywhere,
825
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,440
sneakers were everywhere.
Like, yeah.
826
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,800
And then I don't know, and I
don't know whether it's me that
827
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,680
I lost some interest in it or I
don't know.
828
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,800
Like what you said, like if
there's less, if there's almost
829
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,480
too much exposure, which it's
almost like, you know, like the
830
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,640
way like, for example, Marvel,
like people are experiencing
831
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Marvel fatigue.
There's two Every other week is
832
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,800
a new Marvel, new Marvel movie
and new Marvel.
833
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,720
Show and a new hero.
And new hero, you know, and like
834
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:31,640
how many of them can you have
that you're really, really
835
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,840
invested in or attacked which.
One of the kids invested in,
836
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,040
yeah, Spider man.
Spider Man.
837
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,160
To this in the same in the same
in the same one time and I'm
838
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,840
going to be teased.
It is marvelous.
839
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,120
What's this?
Kids like it's Spidey.
840
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,080
Yeah, he doesn't stop your kid.
You sound like get to know.
841
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,720
Whoever you want to out here at
us, yeah, Spidey's the guy.
842
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,400
Yeah.
How many movies are there?
843
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,000
There's probably 12 of them.
So.
844
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,920
So you decided you want to be a
lawyer.
845
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,400
What was the biggest, what's the
biggest difference between TV
846
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,040
and television and stuff in real
life that you that you've
847
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,480
experienced in the in the long
world?
848
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,120
I'm curious about that.
Like what was your expectations?
849
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,600
And then like, oh, that's
nothing like anywhere near that.
850
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,800
And did someone tell you that
like, oh, this isn't like the
851
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,680
movies?
Or is it like, listen, like this
852
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,720
is your job and you got to do
this?
853
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:17,240
And like, that's nothing what I
thought it was.
854
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,080
Well, the reality is, for me, it
actually is kind of like the
855
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,320
movies.
Exactly.
856
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:28,520
Oh really?
That's.
857
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,000
Not that different.
Because then you're going to
858
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,160
trial, because you're going to
trial.
859
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,320
It's not that.
Different than the movies.
860
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,000
Wow.
So nobody told me either way OK
861
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,560
like the movies or it won't be
OK.
862
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:46,000
And and I'm not at the pinnacle
yet, but it's actually like the
863
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,480
movies.
How so can you?
864
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,840
Can you give me some?
Examples.
865
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,280
Sure, sure.
I'd give you some examples.
866
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600
You were you were a prosecutor.
Yeah, I, I, I did AI did a
867
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,520
Google.
I looked at your resume, but.
868
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,600
Prosecuted cartel you did a.
You, I did not know that part.
869
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,280
You prosecuted cartel, that part
style.
870
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,120
I thought.
I mean, I didn't search enough.
871
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,640
I didn't search.
I start on Google.
872
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,520
Really.
Start on Google.
873
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,320
Wow.
When, where, what I'll.
874
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,440
Tell you, I'll tell you all
about it.
875
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,680
So, so it's, it's not like the
this was not like the movies.
876
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,400
There is no camera.
So a lot of what you do, nobody
877
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,600
knows.
That to me is really the
878
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,160
difference.
And so speaking for myself and
879
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,360
others who have been either
elite prosecutors or elite
880
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,560
criminal defense attorneys,
there's nobody telling the story
881
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,400
of what you did or what you saw
or what you experienced.
882
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,680
That's what the movies for.
Beyond that, when there is a
883
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
movie.
It's like that.
884
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,040
It's like, do you think, do you
think it's because they just get
885
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,560
really good information and do
really good homework when
886
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,400
they're making the movies and
the shows and they're like,
887
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,360
yeah, you know what?
Like instead of just making up
888
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,240
what we think it is like we're
going to talk to like real
889
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:01,400
great, positive.
I think, I think a lot of times
890
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,400
the the movies about these types
of things, they talk to the real
891
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,920
people, right?
And it's so it's not so it's way
892
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,160
more glamorous.
Sure, you know, because
893
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:18,280
whoever's, whoever the actor is
is playing the person, but the
894
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,000
storyline with some
embellishments oftentimes is
895
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,120
close to the truth.
And so I would say I've had
896
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,120
really two significant chapters
in my career so far.
897
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,280
One was the prosecutor chapter,
now is the private practice
898
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,520
chapter.
And to be honest with you, both
899
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,400
chapters are kind of like the
movies but in different ways.
900
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:47,960
The prosecutor chapter, the the
cartel part of it at least,
901
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,600
which is like the last 2 1/2
years of it.
902
00:44:51,800 --> 00:45:00,040
I would be sitting in my office
on a Thursday and an agent, like
903
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,320
an actual American hero, like,
will walk in and say, we think
904
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,840
that, you know, cartel that will
go unnamed in Mexico is planning
905
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:22,320
to use a submarine to transport
$50 million worth of cocaine
906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,800
from one part of the world to
another part of the world.
907
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:33,560
We have an informant who knows
about this and has information.
908
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,600
We want to open an
investigation.
909
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,480
Are you interested?
So they offer you the case.
910
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,360
They're like, are you interested
in this?
911
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,160
Yeah.
And are you just like you and I
912
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:45,560
are?
How many?
913
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,920
How many, typically speaking, if
something like the cartel, first
914
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,320
of all, I'm sure people are
afraid to take that case, right?
915
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,440
Do people not want to get in the
bad side of the cartel or they
916
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,440
don't?
We're not.
917
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,840
We're not generally fearful of
that.
918
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:05,600
Like in my experience, the
professional traffickers of
919
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:11,640
drugs or humans or money
launderers, particularly
920
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,840
overseas, it's not part of the
business calculus, the risk
921
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,560
assessment.
I kill an American prosecutor or
922
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,800
agent like that's not, it's too
much, it's unnecessary.
923
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,840
That's not the business.
The business is to make profit
924
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,320
and to avoid being killed or
going to jail.
925
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,320
So to answer your question, when
that is brought to me, whether
926
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:42,520
it's a literal submersible
submarine investigation, which I
927
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:52,120
had, or corrupt law enforcement
overseas or just a cartel trying
928
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,360
to move into different types of
business in different parts of
929
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,840
the world, I never felt
personally at risk to, like,
930
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,920
have this conversation about the
investigation.
931
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,920
They're not worried about me.
Yeah.
932
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,200
The person that is actually
their their enemy persona, non
933
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,480
grata, if you will, is a person
who's in the organization.
934
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,120
They're telling you that's an
informant.
935
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:14,800
Yeah.
That person is in danger.
936
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,520
Yeah.
But that person could be making
937
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,200
a salary from the United States
government to provide
938
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,080
information.
Does the government make it
939
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,320
worthwhile or is it like the
rest of the government, like?
940
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:28,520
So worthwhile is relative.
Sure.
941
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,800
Depending on where you are in
the world, yeah.
942
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:37,840
So it wouldn't work well for you
because we have an
943
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,160
infrastructure and societal
construct to where we can make a
944
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,880
legitimate living.
So I never really, I didn't
945
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,360
really judge anyone that I
prosecuted.
946
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,640
But I think people in different
parts of the world, especially
947
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:55,960
where like their, their
government is like people
948
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,120
complain about ours, right?
But there's places in the world
949
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,600
where like, there is no court.
Yeah, there's, there's more than
950
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,360
one place in the world.
There's many places, right?
951
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,000
Right.
So in those kinds of places,
952
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,960
people have to react to their
their situation.
953
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,760
People in America do too.
My point kind of is like, it's
954
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,000
kind of like the movies.
It's to go back to.
955
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,560
Don't you ask me so.
So you so you got this case.
956
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,440
Do they, how many people do they
typically go through before?
957
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,400
Like are they looking for you to
accept them or are they waiting
958
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,600
to like say like do they
interview you to take the case?
959
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,280
Like how does that go?
It's kind of like business and.
960
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,600
And the same is true now in
private practice.
961
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,760
You do a good job and the rest,
the word spreads, Yeah.
962
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:49,960
And so it became relational.
So if I don't know, I worked
963
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,720
with, I worked with a lot of
tremendous agents, but it would
964
00:48:52,720 --> 00:49:02,560
be, let's say FBIDEA, Homeland
Security, ATF, those are the
965
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,160
main ones that deal with like
organized violent crime and drug
966
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:12,520
trafficking.
You just do a good job in one
967
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,640
case and then they will tell
their friends.
968
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,240
So it wouldn't be anyone.
Nobody's interviewing anyone.
969
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:21,600
It would just be like, hey, we
have a lead on XY and Z at
970
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,520
whatever stage.
It could be very, very beginning
971
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,520
stage.
It could be we have a couple
972
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,480
controlled calls.
We've see some drugs.
973
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,640
We're ready to prosecute In the
United States and in the federal
974
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,680
system.
In order to arrest somebody,
975
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,160
they have to have the permission
of the Department of Justice.
976
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:36,840
To make the arrest.
To make an.
977
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,880
Arrest and in order to get that
permission, what do you need to
978
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,240
present to them?
They they come to us.
979
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,800
Oh, OK.
And they say, to give you a
980
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:49,080
simple example, here is a a case
where we we bought a crystal
981
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,880
meth was big at the time.
We bought a kilo of crystal meth
982
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,000
from a person who lives in
Hialeah, Hollywood or whatever.
983
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,200
Yeah, sure.
Are you interested?
984
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,120
I probably would have been.
And so I can authorize them
985
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,680
based on the evidence that I've
seen.
986
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,680
We have to get a, a warrant to
arrest someone to go to a judge.
987
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Yeah.
I don't make the decision.
988
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,760
I make the decision to try.
Yeah.
989
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,400
The judge authorizes it.
OK.
990
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:15,560
And then they can go out and
arrest a person in Hollywood for
991
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,160
drug trafficking in Broward
County.
992
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,200
But in the federal system, the
agents have to have a prosecutor
993
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,160
sign off on that.
The the police, local police
994
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,640
don't They arrest somebody to
take them to jail.
995
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,920
And the prosecutor makes a
decision after the fact, right
996
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,840
about whether to actually pursue
the charges.
997
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,400
Oh, right.
Interesting, that's the
998
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,240
distinction.
Between local and federal.
999
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,960
Well, I'm going with this is an
international investigation.
1000
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,720
There's a lot more things you
have to take into account.
1001
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,880
So they would typically bring me
in or someone from my office in
1002
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,360
at the beginning and say we want
to buy crystal meth from this
1003
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,040
organization.
Here's what we have.
1004
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,200
This is what our informant says.
These are the recordings that
1005
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,400
we've made.
What do you think?
1006
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,320
And it's more collaborative from
the very beginning.
1007
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,960
And So what I'm going with this
is I basically would Monday
1008
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:04,520
through Friday, sometimes on
Saturday and Sunday, have like,
1009
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,080
I'm not saying this like I'm
saying this with all gratitude
1010
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,000
because it was really amazing.
Yeah, I would be in my office
1011
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,040
and I'd have like some FBI
agents here and then another
1012
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,040
group of FBI agents out outside
and some DEA agents, Homeland
1013
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,880
agents, and we would be solving
the problems of the world.
1014
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,640
I never did terrorism cases, so
not those problems, OK.
1015
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,080
But in terms of?
See really are making a big.
1016
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,040
Difference drug trafficking and
money laundering investigations.
1017
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,360
As far as South Florida goes,
we're doing it, man.
1018
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,400
Wow.
It was like the movies.
1019
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,160
And I would travel with them so
we would have investigations
1020
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,600
where we would go.
Are they nice?
1021
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,200
What do they like?
What do these people like?
1022
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,000
They're regular people.
Yeah, come to one of my parties,
1023
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:52,680
we meet.
Them.
1024
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,680
Yeah, OK, dude, I'm in, man.
They're.
1025
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Regular.
They're regular dudes.
1026
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:03,200
Awesome regular men and women
with families who have who chose
1027
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,280
law enforcement sometimes after
the military, sometimes instead
1028
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,960
of the military because they
want to serve and they do it
1029
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,000
anonymously.
They don't get any credit, they
1030
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,360
don't get criticism.
And it's amazing stuff.
1031
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:18,880
This actually dovetails well
with something I think is
1032
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,200
probably probably interesting.
At least Gala thinks it's
1033
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,600
interesting, right?
Like, so when we met, I was a
1034
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:28,400
prosecutor, and I was never,
like, worried somebody was going
1035
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:29,720
to try to kill me or anything
like that.
1036
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,400
But I did spend all my time
thinking about the kinds of
1037
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:34,560
things we're talking about now.
What?
1038
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,880
Do you mean in terms of?
Crime, like, yeah, I was.
1039
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,760
I wasn't worried for my own
safety really, but.
1040
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,160
You're just thinking about.
It I did spend all my time, all
1041
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:51,520
my time, really all my like
waking hours, sometimes my
1042
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,320
sleeping hours.
Everything become.
1043
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,040
Thinking about the most dark
things you think.
1044
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What does that do to you?
1045
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,680
That were you down you feel
like.
1046
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,040
It I I don't remember it
weighing me down, but it but it
1047
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,840
definitely changes you because
it has to.
1048
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,560
And I I like the job and I
didn't even leave that work for
1049
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,120
that reason, But that's probably
something.
1050
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,280
Some of the movies show it
though, like some of the movies
1051
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,680
that show like the cop who's
like the dichotomy of the cop,
1052
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,520
like training day is an example,
like films right where the cop
1053
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,080
is like high level but also like
totally corrupt himself or
1054
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,680
himself.
That doesn't happen to most
1055
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:42,160
people, but it can because
because you're like sure, cops
1056
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,080
more than the lawyer.
The cops are actually in
1057
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:50,400
relationships professionally
with actual criminals, mobsters.
1058
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:51,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Actual.
1059
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Do you?
Listen, you ever listen to Diary
1060
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,000
of a CEO?
You know, you know that podcast?
1061
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,160
No, it's a great podcast.
And he had on recently.
1062
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,000
I'll send you the link after the
most corrupt New York Police
1063
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,280
officer.
Like that was this guy's
1064
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,320
nickname and he had a drug
operation going.
1065
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,320
He was cheating on his wife all
the time.
1066
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:14,280
He was like, and he was like
the, and I hear this a lot based
1067
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,400
on different podcasts I listen
to, but like you feel like once
1068
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,160
you get started, you feel like
you're already corrupt and
1069
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,240
there's just no going like you
can't go back anymore.
1070
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:26,760
So you just have to keep going.
Like you feel like if I tell
1071
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,240
anyone that I moved ahead, you
know, I moved whatever amount of
1072
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:35,600
coke or meth or or, you know,
whatever it is, if I tell them
1073
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,800
I'm fired.
If I and I and I'm making 305070
1074
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,360
grand a year and I just made 10
grand in a week.
1075
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,240
Man too deep.
I guess so.
1076
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,120
Movies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1077
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,400
What did you think of the movie
The Trials of the Chicago 7?
1078
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Did you watch that?
I.
1079
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,720
Don't think that is Yeah, I I
didn't see that, so let I've
1080
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:55,680
seen the poster.
I haven't.
1081
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,240
Watched it.
Let me know.
1082
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,600
Yeah, if you if you ever watched
it, let me know you think it's
1083
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,440
actually one of my favorite
movies just because primarily
1084
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,440
the time period.
It's based on the 68 Chicago
1085
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,360
riots during the National
Democratic Convention and and
1086
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,800
the court case was whether or
not the people, whether the riot
1087
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,040
was started by the police or by
the protesters.
1088
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,720
And that was the premise of the
movie.
1089
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,680
And it was a very politically
based movie based on, you know,
1090
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:25,680
processing is the Vietnam War
and everything like that.
1091
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:33,400
But and, you know, I watched the
movie and and then I read about
1092
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,720
a lot of the characters in the
movie and that's kind of where I
1093
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:41,080
saw the the that's where like
life and and cinema kind of, you
1094
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,760
know, you know, go apart from
one another that like, you know,
1095
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,360
the characters themselves are
romanticized as like better
1096
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,760
people than they probably were.
Right, right.
1097
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,120
But but the case itself, I'd be
curious like what your thoughts
1098
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,240
were in terms of that.
But you'll have to you'll have
1099
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:54,360
to let me know if you ever
watched that.
1100
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,840
I will.
But OK, so you were prosecutor
1101
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,160
cartels D AM VI and how many
years do you do that for?
1102
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,760
In total 4 1/2 years.
The first couple years though, I
1103
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,520
didn't do cartels.
It was like when you first
1104
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,640
start, you do less organized
crime.
1105
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,600
Do cartels deal in Miami a lot
or South Florida?
1106
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:22,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, they're not they're.
1107
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,080
Not associated like Texas or
California or like the the
1108
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,680
states that are the states that
are bordering Mexico directly,
1109
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:34,160
you know where it's the.
So, so there's like I've been
1110
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,040
gone from that world for some
years now.
1111
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,800
So I'm sure it's evolved even
since then.
1112
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:44,080
But the base of organized crime
at least for our jurisdiction,
1113
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,920
so in Miami, our jurisdiction
was Miami, South Florida, but
1114
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,000
also the Caribbean and South
America and parts of Central
1115
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,080
America.
Somebody in New York or somebody
1116
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,720
in LA has jurisdiction over
other parts of the world
1117
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,240
international.
But for the world that we had
1118
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:05,520
jurisdiction over, the base of
the activity wouldn't
1119
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:10,120
necessarily be in Miami, but the
the product would come here.
1120
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,800
And so the money would be
generated here and then has to
1121
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,520
go back to the to to home base,
right.
1122
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:22,680
So there's like AI don't know if
you call it a continuum or
1123
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:29,400
there's a route for product in
money out that is constant.
1124
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,080
It's always it's an economy.
Yeah.
1125
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,280
So, yeah, cartels were busy
here.
1126
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,240
But also like, because we had
jurisdiction in other countries
1127
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,760
for crimes that touch the United
States, it didn't necessarily
1128
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,960
have to directly impact Miami
for us to.
1129
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,840
Be in law.
US meaning law enforcement to
1130
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,960
have the resources to
investigate and then the
1131
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:57,000
question would as a prosecutor
be based on what we discover, do
1132
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,160
I have jurisdiction in the
United States to bring a charge?
1133
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,960
And if so, can I, can I bring
that charge in South Florida?
1134
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,560
Because the agents would
sometimes investigate in
1135
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,960
partnership with law enforcement
from other countries, and the
1136
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,880
case would be brought in another
country, right?
1137
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,760
If that country has police in a
court.
1138
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,520
Which?
Sometimes they don't, sure.
1139
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,840
So that's kind of.
Like do you take into account
1140
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,120
whether the whether the when you
say they don't have a court, is
1141
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,360
that what because it's a corrupt
court, because they literally
1142
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,840
don't have a court sometimes or
either either either, right.
1143
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,960
So what's your thoughts on
extradition?
1144
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,480
It's your thoughts on like.
Bring somebody here or bring
1145
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,640
somebody here.
Either way, either way, like the
1146
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,800
notion of someone being in
another country that is not
1147
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,640
their jurisdiction and like the
other country shipping that
1148
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,440
individual back to there.
It is what it is.
1149
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,120
Gotcha.
I've, I've, I've never defended
1150
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,720
somebody in an extradition.
OK.
1151
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,160
I thought I wouldn't.
I just never done it.
1152
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,720
And I've definitely extradite
people to the United States
1153
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,680
where they were.
Because they did crimes in
1154
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,800
America, or because they were
being tried for their crimes in
1155
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:03,760
America?
Or both.
1156
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,840
They did crimes for which we had
jurisdiction to prosecute them
1157
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:13,720
in America, and we satisfied the
treaty requirements for their
1158
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,440
country or wherever they were
harbored to put them on the
1159
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,440
plane.
Which is why it is what it is
1160
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,280
which.
What it is, it is so so it's
1161
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,720
not.
It's the whole.
1162
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,120
Time you're working for the
government.
1163
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:27,880
That's alright.
Yeah, that time.
1164
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,160
So you're a government, You're
you're a federal employee.
1165
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,360
Got it.
And then you went private.
1166
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,840
Yeah.
And why did you do that?
1167
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,800
January 2019.
So six years ago?
1168
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:42,840
Yeah. 6-7 years ago.
Wow.
1169
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,640
Yeah, yeah, probably 2019.
Feels like yesterday, doesn't
1170
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:46,520
it?
Not to me.
1171
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:53,800
Not to him, to me, man.
Listen, dude, I remember 2019.
1172
00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:00,360
Like, the truth is, I think that
2022 to 2025 is the biggest
1173
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,840
blur, you know, from when I got
like, I think when I got married
1174
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,800
and like, my whole life became
based on like, being in one
1175
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,480
place and like planting my roots
and growing upward as opposed to
1176
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,200
discovering my place.
I think the time goes by a lot
1177
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,560
faster when you're in one place
settling your roots.
1178
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,800
Weren't you 23 and 2019?
I was 20.
1179
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,800
I don't know.
I was born December 95, 2019.
1180
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:31,720
No, I was older until I was 20.
I graduated College in 2017 and
1181
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,600
I was 20.
I just turned 22.
1182
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,760
How old are you now?
I'm 29. 2019 but six years ago,
1183
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,480
2019. 20. 4 Whatever that feels
like yesterday.
1184
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,240
It does.
It does feel like yesterday.
1185
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,280
By the way.
Dude, I don't know what
1186
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,160
happened.
I don't know what happened to
1187
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,320
2627 and 28.
Dude, I don't know what happened
1188
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,720
to that 20232425.
I remember.
1189
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,200
I remember distinctly.
I don't know.
1190
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:03,960
I don't know what it is, man.
I don't know.
1191
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,560
So OK, so you went, you went
private.
1192
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,720
So you so you let so was did you
want to leave or you were ready
1193
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:11,400
to leave?
I was ready.
1194
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,600
Would you ever go back?
Would you ever do that kind of
1195
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:19,320
work again?
I would, but as the, as the, as
1196
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,840
the chief, yeah, I wouldn't go
back and like be in court.
1197
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,200
I'd go back as the leader.
So then what would, what would,
1198
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,520
what's the difference in like
day-to-day life if you're going
1199
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,920
back as executive as opposed to
doing that?
1200
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:41,040
Historically, that would mean in
a lot of ways I'm an executive
1201
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:48,240
now and you would have basically
a significant role in
1202
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,880
recruiting.
You'd have a significant role in
1203
01:01:50,880 --> 01:02:00,480
executing the the US
government's law enforcement
1204
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,240
policies.
Really.
1205
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,520
And it would be focused, though,
on your jurisdiction, which in
1206
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,760
my case would be South Florida.
So I'd be, if I was to do that,
1207
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,880
I'd be the chief law enforcement
officer for the Southern
1208
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,080
District of Florida, which goes
from Key West to Fort Pierce.
1209
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,040
Cool.
So it's more you're not, it's
1210
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,480
not policy like you're not like
a politician, but you're a
1211
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,320
prosecutor who trains
prosecutors, who recruits
1212
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,680
prosecutors, who make sure that
prosecutors do the job the right
1213
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,400
way.
You don't really set locally,
1214
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,240
you don't set the priorities,
but you enforce them and you
1215
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:41,160
interpret them.
And relationally, your peers
1216
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,960
would be like the Miami head of
the FBI, the Miami head of the
1217
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,600
DEA.
So they're not going out
1218
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,400
arresting people either, but as
a team.
1219
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,240
You get bigger picture things.
You're doing the biggest picture
1220
01:02:53,240 --> 01:03:00,320
things with really like a focus
on overall community safety, but
1221
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,640
really like the most important
part of that to me is, is
1222
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,040
hiring.
Hiring, it's really important
1223
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,600
hiring and training.
That's what's that.
1224
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,920
Process like is it just that you
have to just sift through
1225
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,000
thousands of thousands of
applicants and?
1226
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,880
Your team does when I was hired.
This is in 2000.
1227
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:23,480
I'm gonna get more rights, by
the way.
1228
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:24,400
Again.
Yeah.
1229
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,680
Cool, I was hired in 2014.
If I remember correctly they
1230
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:32,200
were like 2000 applicants and
like five of us were hired.
1231
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,040
Wow, what stood out about your
resume that got you there?
1232
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,520
Was it your grades?
Was it your extracurriculars?
1233
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,840
Was it your?
Honest, to be honest, I think my
1234
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,520
resume was cool, but there's so
many applicants that it wasn't
1235
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,080
really my resume.
It was a mentor of mine who is
1236
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,280
Angel.
Angel, when I told him that I
1237
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,000
applied, actually directly
reached out to the person who at
1238
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,040
that time had the job that I'm
telling you about.
1239
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,160
OK, Willie.
OK, so my mentor, my brother
1240
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,360
now, but Willie.
Angel texted Willie and said I
1241
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:04,760
had lunch with the kid that you
should meet.
1242
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:07,920
Wow.
And.
1243
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:10,720
How did you meet?
How did you meet Angel?
1244
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:12,400
Angel worked with me at the
time.
1245
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:13,360
OK, Gotcha.
Yeah.
1246
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,120
And he had been, he had been a
prosecutor before.
1247
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,360
And we had lunch and I asked him
for advice and he said I advised
1248
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,800
you to send me your resume and
let me send some text messages
1249
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:24,720
because wow.
Good for you man, that.
1250
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,080
Applicants that, yeah, I don't
think they would have even seen
1251
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,480
my resume just because there's
so many people.
1252
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:35,600
Sure, sure, sure.
So the process then, I think
1253
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,120
it's very similar now, although
it's been, you know, 10 years or
1254
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,760
so.
You have like 3 rounds of
1255
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,360
interviews and then in the third
round you interview with the
1256
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,200
leadership team.
So what stood out?
1257
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,920
I think really more than more
than my like resume, it was
1258
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,880
really my commitment to serving
the community, which I've always
1259
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:55,760
had.
But at the time it wasn't like a
1260
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,160
second year lawyer.
So I didn't really know how to
1261
01:04:58,160 --> 01:04:59,760
do the courtroom things that I
do now.
1262
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:06,600
But I I could prove that like I
was really committed to to
1263
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,720
Miami.
Like I can prove that that
1264
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,560
that's beautiful.
And that stood out.
1265
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,240
And at the time, that's what
that was a that was one of the
1266
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,960
things that the office was
looking for.
1267
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,600
And that's how I got the job.
And there are, there are some
1268
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:22,760
people who get the job for that
reason.
1269
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,720
There are some people who get
the job for because they have
1270
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,000
the highest GPA because they
have, you know, like if I was to
1271
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,080
apply, not me, but a person like
me was applied.
1272
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,040
Now it could be because you
actually have trial experience
1273
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,160
and you can actually go to court
and win without being trained.
1274
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,120
Why have you be trained?
Yeah, yeah.
1275
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,720
And I bet they take that into
consideration, right?
1276
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,080
Whether or not you need to be
trained and all that.
1277
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,160
See, I needed to be trained.
You needed to.
1278
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,960
When you're trained, you're
trained in court, you're trained
1279
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,920
privately behind, closed.
Doors both both so you get
1280
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,680
trained in court and for the for
the Department of Justice
1281
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,040
prosecutors.
There's a school.
1282
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,200
You go to school in South
Carolina.
1283
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,880
South Carolina, two weeks.
Two weeks 2, weeks 2.
1284
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,440
Weeks trial school.
Wow, really?
1285
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,760
It's called trial advocacy.
Some trial BC program from the
1286
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,200
nature.
Can what I feel like this might
1287
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,440
be a crazy question.
I hope it's not.
1288
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:25,640
Does being a lawyer both as a
prosecutor and a defendant, does
1289
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,760
that give you like, what are the
flaws in the legal system?
1290
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:30,840
Do you like if somebody, if you
if you meet someone like this
1291
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,760
guy was convicted of XY and Z,
Do you think that guy had a
1292
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:35,320
crappy lawyer?
You think that guy's a criminal?
1293
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,240
Like how do you differentiate
between like where the law
1294
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,560
starts and where like the
criminal intent and behaviour
1295
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,520
and who the person is at, you
know, codes?
1296
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:50,280
That's a great question.
Because like, so much is like,
1297
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,280
so much is like in the nuance
and so much is like, not just
1298
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,320
about whether or not like it's
beyond.
1299
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,200
It's beyond a reasonable doubt,
right?
1300
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,080
Like that's the standard.
That's the standard, yeah.
1301
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,240
So I'll answer, I'll answer the
question literally and then I'll
1302
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:04,600
like.
Elaborate.
1303
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,840
Yeah, then I'll poeticize a
little bit.
1304
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,560
So when I meet somebody who has
been convicted, I don't really
1305
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,480
think anything.
You just think, oh, interesting,
1306
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:17,960
like that's just information
that you have.
1307
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,920
I don't think anything there's
new information.
1308
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,760
Yeah, like, all right.
It doesn't, it doesn't compute
1309
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,520
anything in terms of how they
ended up there in my mind
1310
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,520
because, and this goes to I
think the broader question that
1311
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,920
you're asking, because in my
mind you can end up there so
1312
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,680
many different ways and I have
no way to know which way it was
1313
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:44,080
like the bad lawyer maybe.
Or a great lawyer.
1314
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,240
Maybe, right.
Like maybe the bad lawyer, but
1315
01:07:48,800 --> 01:08:00,800
as a as a black man who is a
corporate defense lawyer who was
1316
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,640
a prosecutor, who was a black
boy, Yeah.
1317
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:14,120
And you can end up talking to
the police when you've done
1318
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:15,200
nothing wrong.
Yeah.
1319
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:19,560
It could be because somebody
that you know has done something
1320
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,359
wrong, which I've been in that
situation before.
1321
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,800
It can be because you've been
mistaken for someone.
1322
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,960
I've been in that situation
before.
1323
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,040
Really.
It could be because you're in
1324
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,640
the wrong place at the wrong
time.
1325
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,399
I've been in that situation
before.
1326
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:37,200
But to me, fundamentally, the
way I've avoided, avoided
1327
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,640
negative outcomes from all three
of those really goes back to
1328
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:45,120
family and goes back to
upbringing and self respect.
1329
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,080
And ultimately, this is not
something I probably had when I
1330
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,640
was super young, but as I got
older was like a respect for the
1331
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:57,920
power of law enforcement, right?
So this is a very narrow
1332
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:05,000
example.
It's a narrow example, but it's,
1333
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:15,560
you know, it's truly genuine to
say if a person stacks because
1334
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,359
of the neighborhood they live
in, the way they're taught to
1335
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:24,600
communicate with authority
because they they lack respect
1336
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:29,319
for whatever reason for
themselves, you could end up
1337
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:34,319
saying the wrong thing and be
arrested for that.
1338
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,240
Yeah, that's, that's like 1
extreme, right.
1339
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,880
The other extreme is you could
actually be a criminal.
1340
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:47,160
I think another extreme is you
could be a situational criminal.
1341
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:52,000
So you can be a criminal who has
like a who is has like a who's
1342
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,520
an immoral predator.
Those exist.
1343
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,360
Sure.
You could be a a criminal of
1344
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:01,800
like an opportunistic criminal
of greed.
1345
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,920
Yeah, there's all these
different ways this can all
1346
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,320
shake out.
But I guess what I'm going with
1347
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:10,000
this is before you get to the
bad criminal defense attorney,
1348
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,680
one of these things had to have
had to perceive that, right?
1349
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,200
One of these stories, right?
Had to happen before you needed
1350
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,440
a criminal defense lawyer who
could be good or bad, right?
1351
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,400
You could also be innocent and
end up with the criminal defense
1352
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,920
attorney.
Yeah, that's another path that's
1353
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,280
possible.
All this to say, when I meet
1354
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,800
somebody and they've been to
jail or they got convicted, I
1355
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:34,680
don't know which of these pasts
brought them.
1356
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:35,520
There.
Yeah, that.
1357
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,400
So that's what I'm asking.
There's enough room.
1358
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,400
There's so many different
little, like, cracks for people
1359
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,960
to just like, slip in along the
way of getting convicted, you
1360
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,280
know?
Some slip in.
1361
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,440
Some.
Hey, buddy, some really are.
1362
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:51,880
Some are bad, yeah.
Bad people, Some are not bad
1363
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,160
people, but they made a bad
decision.
1364
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,800
Yeah, some are not bad people.
They had really bad friends
1365
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,200
around them.
All these things are possible at
1366
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,120
the same time.
And I don't know who's who.
1367
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,120
When I was a prosecutor, my job
was to figure out who's who.
1368
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,920
It's not really my job now.
So I don't really know
1369
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,680
day-to-day.
If I meet somebody, I have no
1370
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,360
idea how they end up where they
are because I'm not involved
1371
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:15,040
anymore.
Yeah.
1372
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,800
And most of my work is, is
corporate.
1373
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,480
So like, I mean, I guess you
have an occasional CEO who's
1374
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:31,000
like truly like truly diabolical
businessman.
1375
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:39,040
But most, most of my clients had
a business idea and rely on
1376
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,440
their team.
And when we get the subpoena, we
1377
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:45,880
have to deal with it.
But most of the time it whatever
1378
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,720
causes us to have to deal with
the government wasn't most of
1379
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,680
the time wasn't the result of
like some corrupt case intent.
1380
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,880
Yeah.
Yeah, I understand.
1381
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,520
It happens.
Yeah, from my practice, most of
1382
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,320
the time that isn't what
predicated right us meeting
1383
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,040
with.
But you but but your but your
1384
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:09,400
experience has LED you to
understand that when you meet
1385
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,960
someone who has a record, you
meet someone who went to jail or
1386
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,640
convicted.
Whatever it is, it doesn't
1387
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,120
necessarily mean so much about
who they are.
1388
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,800
At all, at all.
And and that's that's my
1389
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,120
experience as a prosecutor, but
I think that's my experience
1390
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,240
also just.
What do you think about those
1391
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,880
people who have a hard time
getting out, like adjusting to
1392
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,840
their lives after they get out?
You know, like, like, you know,
1393
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,400
you get hired, you can't get,
you can't do, you can't get a
1394
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:35,880
job, you can't do anything.
I mean.
1395
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,840
It's the worst possible thing
you can imagine.
1396
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,080
I can't imagine dude.
And coming home is is terrible,
1397
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:50,280
but imagine being like locked up
in a cage or in a, you know, the
1398
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,680
equivalent of like a like a walk
in closet.
1399
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:04,840
So I mean, I I don't really have
like what I'll say is I never
1400
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,440
internalized or felt guilty
about my work.
1401
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:12,200
My work was righteous.
Yeah, but jail.
1402
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,640
Jail could be improved it.
Could.
1403
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,000
Be improved.
Is that something you consider?
1404
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,920
Is that something you consider
pursuing in the future?
1405
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,360
You're not sure it's?
Not on my plate.
1406
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,400
It's not on my plate personally,
but it can be improved.
1407
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,520
Yeah, I understand.
And in other countries, like for
1408
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,640
example, we went to Colombia for
investigations, their jails can
1409
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,200
be improved too.
But you can have but you can
1410
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,160
like see.
Your life, you could see your
1411
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,160
life, Yeah.
In the jail that I visited in
1412
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,760
Colombia, you could see your
wife.
1413
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,880
The jail could be approved.
I'm not saying it can't be
1414
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,600
approved.
They can all be improved.
1415
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:57,160
But you know, the the model, the
historical US model of like send
1416
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,320
these men, mostly men, some
women to like to some faraway
1417
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:08,480
place where they're cut off from
family, You know, is to me, to
1418
01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:13,040
me, from what I've seen doesn't
lead to improving society.
1419
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,720
I understand there are
definitely people that I've
1420
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,880
heard about a few that I've
encountered, not most some that
1421
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,560
I've encountered that I'm like,
send him, send him as far away
1422
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,720
from the rest of us as you can,
because he will actually will
1423
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,400
hurt people, physically hurt
people could be rape, could be
1424
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,760
murder, whatever.
For most people that go to jail,
1425
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,880
they, they deserve to be
punished if you will.
1426
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:45,040
But on a human level, to me, the
separation from from humanity
1427
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,320
doesn't do anybody favors.
That person and their family or
1428
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,680
the rest of us when they get
hottie.
1429
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't that's not really on
1430
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:56,000
my like my list of things to do.
Yeah, but it's something you've
1431
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,920
observed.
But to me, like that, we can do
1432
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:00,320
better, right?
Yeah.
1433
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,040
Like the rape, like the rape
culture in jail, we can do
1434
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:05,200
better than that.
Yeah, we could.
1435
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,360
That's not doing anybody any
favors.
1436
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:09,200
Yeah.
God doesn't look favorably on
1437
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,400
that.
I can imagine not Yeah, I can't
1438
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,880
imagine it's bad.
I can't imagine it's well
1439
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,600
endorsed.
It's like, endorsed and like,
1440
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:16,760
you know, Oh yeah.
You know, like.
1441
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:21,160
That's not cool.
Yeah, I, I can't I, we don't
1442
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:23,480
we'll have to do probably
another podcast.
1443
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:29,000
Take it to get to to get to the
to the defence part 10 minutes.
1444
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:33,600
I want to talk about family and
balancing family and work and
1445
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,520
career and ambitions and sure
and balancing your life because
1446
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,960
one thing that guy has so much
respect.
1447
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:46,960
Guy loves you.
Guy, by the way, I, I love him
1448
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:48,960
and one of the reasons why I
really, really love him is
1449
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:53,920
because he's genuinely always
looking to, he's always looking
1450
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,880
to be a better human being, Like
authentically like he's like,
1451
01:15:58,360 --> 01:15:59,440
what can you do about our
husband?
1452
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:01,360
What can you do about our dad?
A better businessman, a better
1453
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:02,760
friend.
Like he's just always thinking
1454
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,320
about that.
Like his decisions aren't based
1455
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,480
in like what I feel like doing
right now, but like, what's the
1456
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:10,440
right thing to do?
You know, and that's a really,
1457
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,280
and he looks up to you.
So like, as much as I enjoy
1458
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:19,920
like, you know, that mentality,
how do you like first, OK, how
1459
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:25,240
do you balance it?
And what do you you don't have
1460
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,640
to answer this if you don't want
to, but what do you?
1461
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:31,000
What's your struggle that you
feel like or like that voice in
1462
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:32,840
the back of your head that you
feel like you have to get over?
1463
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,120
Like, for example, mine is
you've done enough.
1464
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,480
You don't have to do anymore.
Or like it's too hard.
1465
01:16:37,480 --> 01:16:39,480
Don't bother.
Like that's usually like the
1466
01:16:39,480 --> 01:16:42,120
voice that I have to get past,
You know, this podcast too much
1467
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:43,240
effort.
Don't bother doing it.
1468
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,520
You know, don't you know, like
you did 2 episodes this week.
1469
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:46,960
That's enough.
You don't have to do anymore.
1470
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:52,600
So like I'm easily sat content
and I'm I hate that I'm lazy,
1471
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,000
but I you know, but I have a
tendency towards it.
1472
01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:58,040
So how do you balance work and
life and everything?
1473
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,800
And then like, what do you, what
ghost do you get past?
1474
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,000
Yeah.
All right.
1475
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:10,760
So how do I balance it?
A couple ways.
1476
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:16,160
So I use my calendar
religiously, OK.
1477
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:19,240
And I calendar everything months
out.
1478
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,680
It was challenging to get this
time booked because of trials
1479
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,720
which I can't calendar because I
don't know when they're going to
1480
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:32,800
happen outside of that.
My calendar currently goes out
1481
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,920
to September.
Wow, really?
1482
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:42,400
Yeah, yeah.
And it includes trips with the
1483
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:47,560
family.
It includes babysitting for like
1484
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,920
nights that I'm local and we'll
go on a date.
1485
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,160
So that's one thing that.
Organizing Health.
1486
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:02,400
Organize, like to the extent
possible and that takes a little
1487
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,520
bit of attention to detail, but
it's not over the top.
1488
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:07,720
But that's what that's been a
major, that's been a major thing
1489
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:20,320
for us #2 is communication and
intimacy with our kids.
1490
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:26,000
So the communication is, is with
Gayla about like where we're
1491
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:32,560
going this year in terms of like
as a family, as parents.
1492
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,400
So this is really probably boils
down to leadership in my
1493
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:40,840
worldview, being a leader of the
house in the sense that we do it
1494
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,440
collaboratively.
But really my goal is to
1495
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,800
facilitate her accomplishing
above and beyond her own goals,
1496
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,440
creating a platform for our kids
to do the same, even though it's
1497
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:58,240
even though they're young.
And then putting everything I
1498
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:03,440
have to do professionally in, in
the community in that context.
1499
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:07,440
So it's it's kind of like
leadership goal setting for the
1500
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:12,800
house for myself personally as
as her supporter, as her husband
1501
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,360
and then as a dad.
What happens if that deviates?
1502
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,480
What happens if like, something
falls off track or like
1503
01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:22,120
something doesn't go as you
like, you know, improvise or
1504
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:22,920
you?
Improvise.
1505
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,240
Improvise to be honest.
Like I can't think of an example
1506
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:27,520
like that.
OK, so most things have kind of
1507
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:30,880
like because you, you're, I'm
sure your plans are loosely
1508
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:33,160
enough that it's just
generalization like time with
1509
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:33,560
kids.
Yeah.
1510
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:34,760
And there's some time with what
there's.
1511
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,240
Simple goals like we need to go
see our family in Illinois,
1512
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:38,360
which is her family.
We need.
1513
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,320
You'll see my family in
Colorado.
1514
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,640
So they're, they're simple
goals, but they're things that
1515
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:48,400
if you don't, I think to your
question, if you don't focus on
1516
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,600
them and have a plan, you can
easily go a year or two years.
1517
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,360
Some people could attend right,
without focusing on time with
1518
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:02,320
their spouse, right.
So we have trips planned out
1519
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:04,640
where just she and I are going.
We have trips planned out with
1520
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,560
the kids to where everyone gets
quality time with me.
1521
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,600
So that's one thing that we've
done that has worked.
1522
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,760
And then in terms of the voice
in my head, I'll tell you, like
1523
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:23,800
the voice in my head recently
has been saying this is a Jay-Z
1524
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:25,320
line.
I actually used it in my trial
1525
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,120
last week.
He's a Jay-Z.
1526
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,440
Line in trial I did.
I've tried to use one in every
1527
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:32,400
trial you.
Said you quote Jay-Z or you just
1528
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,280
take the line.
You say like, oh, as Jay-Z says,
1529
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:35,560
or you say you just take the
line.
1530
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:38,840
I've.
Said as a in one trial, I said
1531
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,960
something to the effect of like,
as my favorite poet once said.
1532
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,840
OK.
This last trial I just said, OK,
1533
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:46,800
which was, is this what success
is about?
1534
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,240
He says, is this was success all
about?
1535
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:55,360
And so the the voice in my head
recently has been saying it's
1536
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,320
more of a question of like what
what's next?
1537
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,880
What is the future hold?
And when I asked, when I'm being
1538
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:09,040
asked that question, that like
voice in my head, it's like for
1539
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,520
me, but really it's for us.
And I don't know the answer.
1540
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,440
And I'm searching for that
answer.
1541
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,720
And I've been welcoming feedback
from clients, colleagues,
1542
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:26,920
friends from Gala, from like,
from, from like the voice.
1543
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,080
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, the.
1544
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:35,600
God voice of like I used to
dream about the future and and
1545
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:40,520
to be honest with you, the
dreams that I had have already
1546
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:41,000
happened.
It's.
1547
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:42,360
Great.
It's amazing.
1548
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:50,440
And is this what success is
about, right?
1549
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,640
Listen, I, I, I think it might
be though, right?
1550
01:21:54,640 --> 01:22:00,240
Like family, balanced life,
meaningful work that you feel,
1551
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:06,760
you know, accomplished about.
And I guess I, I, I do you think
1552
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,000
that it's going to strike you as
like, oh, that idea resonates
1553
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,200
with me or it's going to strike
you.
1554
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,840
Like I fall like I'm like, I
fall into it.
1555
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,160
And then it's like, oh, wow, I
really love this, you know,
1556
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:20,720
like, I know for example, I
don't like, like you said,
1557
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,280
you're OK, you open minded and
like trying new things and start
1558
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,760
like, I'm not, you know, I'm
really not.
1559
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,640
And like I judge books by their
cover naturally.
1560
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:34,720
Just very, very, you know, and
I'll go Netflix just based on
1561
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:36,880
like the name of this, of this
stupid show or movie.
1562
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:41,320
Like no, and like, and then like
this is all time like crap, I
1563
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:43,200
missed it.
You know, I'm like, you gotta
1564
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,080
watch it though.
So, so a lot of times you'll be
1565
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,200
until I start something, I'll
realize that that's what's
1566
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:49,040
valuable to me.
You know, like I do the when I
1567
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:51,720
do the podcast, I never knew
what I wanted to do.
1568
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,240
I did an episode and like every
single time I walk away from
1569
01:22:55,240 --> 01:23:01,640
like an episode and I have it
honest or emotional or open hour
1570
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,480
and a half, two hour, 3 hour
conversation with someone and we
1571
01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:08,560
connect and I learn and like
we're both being like open and
1572
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:12,440
expressive and honest.
I walk away feeling rejuvenated
1573
01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:17,040
and alive and like this is what
like like if I could do this all
1574
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:22,520
day every day, I would, you
know, it's so like so, but I had
1575
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,320
to try to even know that that
would even be the option, you
1576
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:26,880
know?
So like, do you think that
1577
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,600
you're going to have to conceive
of an idea and then try it or
1578
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,240
are you going to have or, you
know, you're going to have to
1579
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,160
just try a couple of different
things and like, oh, this is for
1580
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,880
me, you know, like, and I don't
know, you know.
1581
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,560
That's a great question and I
don't know the answer.
1582
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:40,400
Yeah, yeah, that's figure that
out.
1583
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,080
That's the that's the phase that
I'm in.
1584
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:48,280
And I'll tell you.
So I, you know, I shave most
1585
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,000
like most days, but when I don't
like my, my beard is like
1586
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:53,680
getting greyer and greyer.
Oh yeah.
1587
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:58,480
And a lot of times this kind of
goes back to, like, what I do,
1588
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,760
what I do, importance on that.
But you know, so often my
1589
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:06,480
opponent in court is like, 70.
Yeah, right.
1590
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:13,960
And of late, probably this year
that I turned 40 in August.
1591
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,320
So I'm like, chronologically
getting older.
1592
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:22,320
Like, my beard is graying.
Kids are growing up.
1593
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,240
They're still babies.
So like, that keeps me young.
1594
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:25,640
So I feel young.
Yeah.
1595
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,120
And then physically you're,
you're, you're, you're looking
1596
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:29,880
great.
Thank you man, I have a trainer
1597
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,520
who's also.
Aging, by the way, by the way,
1598
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:36,480
40 could be, you could there's
like a you're an age and there's
1599
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,800
your body age.
And like, I'm sure your body age
1600
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,720
isn't 40.
I'm sure your body age is in the
1601
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:44,400
year late 20s early 30s.
I appreciate that, but my but my
1602
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,080
but my mind remembers my age and
30s.
1603
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,880
Yes, I'm escaping that I've been
here a while.
1604
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:50,760
I'm.
Escaping that, yeah.
1605
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,440
So where I'm going?
With this is it is like a new
1606
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:55,840
this is.
This is the stage that I'm in
1607
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,880
now, which is I'm 40.
I'm blessed.
1608
01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:02,760
My parents are still with us.
They're healthy, Thank God.
1609
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,320
Our kids are growing up every
day.
1610
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,680
Every day is an adventure.
I'm learning every day I'm
1611
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,560
teaching something to someone
every day, especially
1612
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:21,760
professionally, I'm living the
dream that I used to have and
1613
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,560
I'm in a very pugilistic
profession.
1614
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:31,520
And the people that I'm
punishing day-to-day, 30 years
1615
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:33,000
older than me.
Wow.
1616
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:38,880
And I'm like, what does this all
mean?
1617
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,360
And I don't know the answer to
the question.
1618
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,640
And I actually like that, but
I'm searching.
1619
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,440
Yeah.
So I searched during the day,
1620
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:50,920
through conversation, through
dialogue, through observing
1621
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,840
others.
I searched like in my dreams.
1622
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:55,240
Do you?
Do you?
1623
01:25:55,480 --> 01:25:58,720
Remember your dreams a lot or.
When they matter, Yeah, Yeah,
1624
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,320
yeah.
But I like in like conscious
1625
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:03,600
when I'm sleeping of like,
what's the future hold.
1626
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,080
And I don't know the answer to
the question and I'm alright
1627
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:08,320
with that.
But it's like I found myself and
1628
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:16,240
I didn't necessarily expect
this, but when I was 2526, I
1629
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:17,640
dreamed about being a federal
prosecutor.
1630
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:19,680
That was.
That's cool.
1631
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:21,160
That was the pinnacle.
Yeah.
1632
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,360
I'm six years removed from the
pinnacle.
1633
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:31,440
Yeah.
Asking what's the, what's that
1634
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:32,120
cynical?
Yeah.
1635
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:38,080
And it's obviously my kids.
But they're like, major life
1636
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:39,920
events are years away.
Yeah.
1637
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:45,440
And so my job and I think your
job is to fill your own life
1638
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:51,760
with fulfillment so that we can
be the best parents to our like,
1639
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,440
yeah, kids at their milestones.
Yeah, yeah, in whatever, in
1640
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:58,560
whatever ways that manifests.
So you think you want to be more
1641
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:01,720
present, you want to you want to
be around more to help your kids
1642
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,640
be, but I don't know to what
extent you're around or not.
1643
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:09,320
You know, I'm just I but you
know, to be around to help, to
1644
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,480
be that.
You know, I said this already
1645
01:27:11,480 --> 01:27:16,520
and I saw the week, but there's
a Springsteen line that is so
1646
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:18,520
great.
He's like we're either ghosts or
1647
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,960
we're ancestors to our children,
you know, and like you have to
1648
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,560
choose what you're going to be.
And like, you could be a ghost
1649
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,800
where like, you know, you're
haunting at you're haunting them
1650
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,680
and like you're constantly like
you're the stuff of their
1651
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:31,480
nightmares.
Or you could be like the guiding
1652
01:27:31,480 --> 01:27:35,080
light and like live to see you
know the way that.
1653
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,720
Guiding White back.
Me too, man, me too.
1654
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,560
But you know what?
So it takes so much effort, it
1655
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,240
takes so much patience, takes so
much work.
1656
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,960
But dude, I hope to do this
again.
1657
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,720
I would love to do another, I'd
love to do another recording in
1658
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,480
a couple of months or, you know,
whatever it is.
1659
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:54,000
And next time we have and I
really appreciate your time.
1660
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,600
Thank you so much, dude.
And we'd even we, I feel like
1661
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:58,320
we're barely scratching the
surface of the bucket.
1662
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,400
You know, we're barely
scratching the surface over
1663
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:02,400
here.
But this is a lot of fun.
1664
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:03,600
I really appreciate you taking
the time.
1665
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:05,160
Thank you.
Thank you, man.
1666
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,360
I appreciate it.
All right, we'll do this again
1667
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:08,440
soon.
Bye everyone.
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,960
And we're live.
I love this.
2
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,120
I I never know exactly the
proper way to start.
3
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,920
You know, it depends what kind
of conversation I'm having.
4
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,640
So Jonathan, why don't you tell
me a little bit about yourself
5
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,840
to start and then we'll kind of
probe our way through there, I
6
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:13,880
think.
Yeah, please.
7
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,960
All right.
Well, first of all, good
8
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:17,920
evening.
Good evening.
9
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,880
It's nice to be with you today.
It's great to be here.
10
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,120
So about myself, starting in
what year?
11
00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,360
Like as a kid or currently,
which is what's?
12
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,000
Better let's start as a kid, all
right?
13
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,840
Yeah, I'm interested in that.
Where are you from?
14
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,440
You from here?
I'm from Miami Gardens, Florida.
15
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,160
I know, Miami Gardens, sure.
Which now is Miami Gardens,
16
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:35,960
Florida.
But when I lived there was just
17
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,360
Miami, FL didn't really have the
name.
18
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:40,920
It didn't have the gardens
either.
19
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:48,360
But I grew up there and lived in
in Miami until I was 16 and we
20
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,640
moved to Vegas when I was 16.
Gotcha.
21
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,960
Come from a big family.
I have three siblings, two
22
00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,240
parents that's good, that are
still still together, still now.
23
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:01,560
That's nice.
That's uncommon.
24
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,440
Right, we all hang out together.
It's so nice how often.
25
00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:05,600
Yeah.
They live here now.
26
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:06,840
They move back.
They live in Davie.
27
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,080
Oh sweet.
OK, we now live in Hollywood,
28
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,400
right?
And we see them all the time.
29
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,360
We saw them last night, for
example.
30
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:13,840
It's awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome.
31
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,200
It's beautiful.
Anyone or your siblings?
32
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,040
They're close.
They are not close.
33
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,240
I have a sister in Ohio, a
sister in Arkansas, a sister in
34
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,120
Colorado and a half brother in
Miami.
35
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,600
Wow gotcha.
How often do you make your way
36
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,240
out to each of those places or
vice versa?
37
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,560
I feel like they would come here
more.
38
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,960
Right from here, Yeah,
distantly, probably twice a
39
00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:33,760
year.
OK.
40
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,880
And when we go to the other
places kind of depends on what's
41
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,160
going on.
So we went to Ohio this year for
42
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,840
my brother in law's birthday.
Which part of Ohio?
43
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,840
They live in Cleveland, Shaker
Heights.
44
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,240
Nice.
Yeah, I'm familiar with it.
45
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,160
And we'll go to Arkansas in this
summer, probably not Colorado
46
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,280
this year, but I'm good.
Where are they in Colorado?
47
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,280
In Denver?
Denver.
48
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,520
Nice.
What do you think of Denver?
49
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,560
That's lovely.
It's.
50
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,600
A cool place, right?
It's a lot of fun.
51
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,320
I drove cross country a couple
of times and I always made sure
52
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,720
to hit Colorado because I think
it's like it's not from
53
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,039
Washington.
I think it's my favorite state.
54
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,039
Like just to.
Go through Washington state.
55
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,520
Yeah, I love Washington State.
Have you driven that far?
56
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:13,720
I have.
That's why I moved.
57
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,480
That's why I drove to I, I moved
to Seattle for a year.
58
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,120
I drove from New York and I and
like, yeah, my buddy, I
59
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,680
convinced my buddy to move with
me.
60
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,800
I told he was working at, he's
doing coding at a big corporate
61
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,480
company and he hated it.
And I worked with my dad.
62
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,040
It's a little family business.
So I called him and I was like,
63
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,360
if you quit your job, I'll hire
you.
64
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,920
I didn't speak to my dad.
Yeah, but then my dad didn't
65
00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:40,840
want to do it.
So I'm like, I, this guy's pop,
66
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,040
I'm telling you, this guy's
brilliant.
67
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,960
It's like until he shows you
split my salary, we'll just
68
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,560
split it together.
And, and that way you won't even
69
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,080
notice when you decide that it's
worthwhile, then you'll pay both
70
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,880
of us, you know, regular salary
or, or more hopefully if we
71
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,200
create that value.
It took like a month and 1/2 for
72
00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,800
that to happen, you know, but he
did it.
73
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,160
And then for the next couple of
months, we were four guys living
74
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,240
in a house that cost 4 grand a
month, where between us our
75
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,480
income was like $75,000.
We were just living on savings
76
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,040
until, until, until we got more
money.
77
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,040
And then in Washington, in
Washington, Seattle, Yeah, in
78
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,920
Seattle.
And so along the way, we, we
79
00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,000
drove, you know, so I drove.
So I picked him up and I bought
80
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,760
a 2000 and like 8 Toyota Prius
with like 140,000 miles on it.
81
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,280
And one of the cylinders
actually wasn't firing while the
82
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,040
entire job like this is burning,
burning out through gas like
83
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,960
crazy.
And my friends like, oh, well,
84
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,360
you know, it's all our stuff in
the car.
85
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,760
You know, maybe that's what it
is if you got to Seattle and
86
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,440
like, no, that car is that car
is not good.
87
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,920
And then ended up getting hit.
I got like 6:00 in the morning.
88
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,920
I was going to synagogue and a
woman makes a slow left out into
89
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,480
me and we're both OK.
Like get on.
90
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,200
Are you OK?
Stick?
91
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,240
Yeah.
I'm like, what was that?
92
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,880
What are you doing?
It's like you're not, you're
93
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,120
clearly not drunk.
You're not inebriated.
94
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,640
Like, what was that?
She's like, oh, I don't know.
95
00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,320
I just, you know, I shouldn't be
driving this early.
96
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,920
But I got tank ran for the car
and I paid like 4500 bucks for
97
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,960
it.
So she lasted.
98
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,720
She she did, she did a good job.
And then I was like, I could do
99
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,000
this for a living.
You know, this is a great way to
100
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,680
make a living.
But how'd you like grow up in
101
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760
Florida?
I thought it was.
102
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,200
It was nice.
It was the 80s, so I was born in
103
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,200
1984 and I thought Florida in
the 80s was great.
104
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,480
That's all I really knew.
My grandparents live close to
105
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,880
us, all my cousins live on the
same street with us.
106
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,440
So it was like a happy.
I mean, I now looking back on
107
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,440
it, see it as kind of like a
small town upbringing, except it
108
00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,400
wasn't a small town and we
didn't know differently, but we
109
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:45,920
had a very traditional family
oriented experience.
110
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,240
Yeah.
And so my wife is from Illinois.
111
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,320
She's actually from a small town
village even.
112
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,240
Yeah.
And so.
113
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,880
So we all live on the same St.
in Miami.
114
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,960
And her and her family, they
don't live on this just on the
115
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,560
same street.
They live on the same land.
116
00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:03,600
Wow, That's cool.
So that's like actual small
117
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:04,160
town.
Yeah.
118
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,640
Yeah.
But our bringings are very
119
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,200
similar.
Sure, Very similar.
120
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,920
The most important things are
family, friendship, community,
121
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,080
even beyond family.
So our neighbors that you know,
122
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,800
yeah, that's that's how I grew
up.
123
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,680
Our neighbors were family to us.
Sure.
124
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,760
That's how Gayla grew up.
Her neighbors were family.
125
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,280
And we're trying to create the
same thing here.
126
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,400
Yeah, me too, man.
I grew up like that too.
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00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,640
And my dad actually grew up in
Miami also in the 80s.
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00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:34,760
He grew up on 43rd and Pine Tree
and he's one of six and didn't
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00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,000
have a ton of family near them,
but they were enough personality
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00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,600
themselves, you know, and, and
you know, the Miami Beach Jewish
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00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,560
community from the 70s and 80s
was very small.
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00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,080
And so they're also, you know,
everyone knew one another and
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00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,320
like as time went on, they all
kind of branched out and moved
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00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,520
on.
But you know, like you like, you
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00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,720
know, my dad's always still
excited to like hear random
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00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,160
names.
My neighbor over here, 2 houses
137
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,240
down his our grandparents are
friends and we currently have
138
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,520
kids the same age and he lives
two houses down from me.
139
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,640
So it's 4 generations of our,
you know, Stern and Hershman's
140
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,240
that are just like just friends
and living like down the block
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00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,280
from one another, you know, and
like we're just talking about it
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00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:14,200
this weekend.
It's really cool.
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00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:15,800
It's a beautiful thing.
I feel like a lot of people
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00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,200
don't have that, you know,
degree his.
145
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,400
Family was from Miami Beach.
Yeah, it's.
146
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:21,080
Awesome.
Yeah.
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00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,320
I mean, they, they, my
grandfather was from Brooklyn
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00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,480
originally, but after he did, he
got, he went to medical school
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00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,520
and then during I guess the
Korean War, I think he
150
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,880
volunteered, He didn't want to
get drafted and he wanted to
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00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,080
volunteer and pick where he was
going to go and to avoid and to
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00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,560
avoid getting drafted and sent
abroad.
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00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,360
And they went in San Antonio for
a couple of years and then they
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00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,560
relocated to Miami.
But that they've been there
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00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,000
since, yeah, late 70s, early
80s.
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00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,560
And I don't think anyone ever
looked back.
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00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,040
They, they still live there now
and he's gonna die in that
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00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,640
house.
He loves that place, you know,
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00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,840
like it's, it's and it's nice.
It's beautiful.
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00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,600
I used to, I, I growing up, I'd
go to my dad's old bedroom and
161
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,880
go through his stuff and like,
see what he had as a kid and
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00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,720
like, he found a scrapbook of
old girlfriends he used to keep
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00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,800
and stuff like that.
My mom flipped the shit about
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00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,040
but you know, like.
Yeah, like pictures of.
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00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,640
The yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like humor.
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00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,840
I was like, this was Jerry.
She was the best looking girl on
167
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,680
the grade.
And this is like, you know, and
168
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,720
yeah, it's Polaroid just legit
like that.
169
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,000
And I was like, she's like, what
is this still here for?
170
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,280
But what was what was moving to
Vegas like?
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00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,360
So I was, it was.
So my birthday's in August and
172
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,120
we moved in, let's say July.
So I think I was 15 technically,
173
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,680
but when school started I was 16
and.
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00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920
You were going to be a junior.
Rising junior Rising junior and
175
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,160
I've gone to the same school
since 6th grade and I'd always
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00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,160
lived in the same house.
And my older sister is she was
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00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,640
probably, she had just graduated
from high school, so she was
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00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,680
going to be going to school in
LA and then my 2 younger sisters
179
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,920
were like in middle school.
So what was it like moving to
180
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,000
Vegas?
I was actually excited about it.
181
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,480
And, you know, in hindsight, I
think that's interesting because
182
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,320
it was in the middle of high
school and I really had no
183
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,560
problem just picking up and
moving across the country not
184
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,320
knowing anyone.
My SO I think I had no problem
185
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,080
with it for two reasons.
One of my parents made it easy
186
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,760
because I moved in the
summertime before school started
187
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,640
and like, joined my basketball
team OK during the summer.
188
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,840
Oh, cool.
I met friends and my teammates
189
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,920
back before school started.
So that was huge cred my parents
190
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,200
for that.
I think the other thing is that
191
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,880
my personality just kind of is
open to change and I still have
192
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,520
the same view.
So at the time, to be honest, I
193
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,120
didn't really think anything of
it really.
194
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,679
I had my my good friends in
Miami.
195
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,200
They're still my my good friends
today.
196
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,600
Sure, and let's go.
That's so interesting, though,
197
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,120
especially because, all right,
when you were growing up with
198
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,000
all your like cousins and
everything all around you, did
199
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,320
you think you were going to miss
that or did you think like, ah,
200
00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:57,560
you know, that was fun, but
like, let's try something new.
201
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,040
You're a teenager.
What I thought and what happened
202
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,000
was they'll visit and they did
and we'll and we'll visit home
203
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,200
and we do.
How'd you like Vegas?
204
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,840
What was that like?
It's a cool place.
205
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,440
It's it's a magical place in a
lot of ways, but I think for a
206
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,520
kid then this is like 2000.
What year was this?
207
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,320
2000 Vegas were still New South.
My high school in Las Vegas was
208
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,800
only 10 years old from when it
was built.
209
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,880
Wow, cool.
Compared with in Miami, schools
210
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,360
go back decades and decades.
Sure.
211
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,160
So it was a modern city, very
suburban.
212
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,560
We lived in Henderson.
Yeah.
213
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,160
And.
It's cheap.
214
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,000
It still is today.
And I and I didn't have a
215
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,040
perspective of that, but yeah,
we went from our house in Miami,
216
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,360
which is a lovely, you know,
lovely small home in a lovely
217
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,840
neighborhood to two-story house.
Crazy and.
218
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,880
My first job was at a rec center
down the street from a high
219
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,880
school, so.
Did you work as you had to or
220
00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,160
because you wanted to?
Or both.
221
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,960
Definitely wanted to.
I didn't have to to like pay any
222
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,480
bills or anything.
Yeah, but I would pay for gas in
223
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,640
my car.
Yeah, yeah, the fun, the fun
224
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,240
stuff, the fun stuff.
And like you.
225
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,640
Know our parents never said you
have to get a job they're more
226
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,240
like you have to do your
homework yeah.
227
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,520
And I was a pretty serious
athlete.
228
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,200
So it was, it was, it was extra,
but it was important to me to.
229
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,120
And you stayed for college,
right?
230
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,360
Working.
You like working?
231
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,000
Yeah.
He's like feeling productive.
232
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,000
It's crazy.
I mean, it means that you like.
233
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,560
Sure, you like.
So what about you like the work
234
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,200
that you do?
Or you like the feeling of
235
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,680
working and being productive?
Or you like both?
236
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,920
You like both?
I like the work that I do, but
237
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,120
if I didn't do this work, I
would do some different work.
238
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,920
OK.
And at that time I was a gym
239
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:59,640
monitor at a rec center and my
job was to set the the cones up.
240
00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,000
And the.
Kids camp to clean up and I was
241
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,600
very social.
That's another aspect of work
242
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,320
that I like The, the, the
connection with other people,
243
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,840
whether it's your your
colleagues or even the, the, the
244
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,120
kids who come to the direct.
The families were my part of my
245
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,280
tribe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
246
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,480
I one of the hardest things
about my job, even one of the
247
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,720
best things and hardest things
that it's completely remote
248
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,080
pretty much right.
So I do sales, you know, and I
249
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,880
communicate with the warehouse
100 times a day and, you know,
250
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,640
make sure everything gets that.
I sell medical equipment,
251
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,280
ultrasounds and patient monitors
and stuff.
252
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,840
And you know, I'm communicating
at the warehouse.
253
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,840
I'm dealing with customers, but
everything can be done on the
254
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,760
computer on my phone, But I was
just sitting in my living room
255
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,480
all day for 10-12 hours and I'm
like, I'm going to go crazy.
256
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,840
I actually picked up, started
picking up part time teaching
257
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,080
just to get out, just to like go
and interact with my I, I was
258
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,840
going crazy.
I'm a very social person and it
259
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,240
drove me nuts to just be at home
with just, you know, the phone
260
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,800
and A and a blue screen all day.
You know, it drove me crazy.
261
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,600
Who?
Are the customers.
262
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,640
Generally private practices, the
equipment we sell are
263
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,360
refurbished.
So a new ultrasound machine
264
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,000
could run anywhere from like if
it's a regular machine you see
265
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,320
like in the movie and the TV
shows or whatever could run
266
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,360
anywhere from like 75 to 150
grand.
267
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,840
The average cost of the machine
that I sell is probably closer
268
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,000
to 12 to 15.
And I think that a lot of
269
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,480
doctors are like, I think
especially private practices
270
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,440
aren't making as as much money
as they used to.
271
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,640
And actually one of the reasons
my dad got into it was because
272
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,760
it was pretty much economy
proof, right?
273
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,360
Because times are bad, no one's
buying anything new.
274
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,520
And in times you're good,
there's always people that are
275
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,960
looking to get a deal anyway,
you know, and, and especially a
276
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,320
doctor that understands that an
ultrasound is an ultrasound and
277
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,440
a pictures, a picture, they're
not going to fall for that
278
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,480
$150,000 scam.
You know, they're going to say,
279
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,720
well, I get the exact same thing
for 20 grands or 25 maybe if I
280
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,800
want to splurge.
So why would I go ahead and do
281
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,880
that?
So it's pretty, I mean, it was,
282
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,720
it was phenomenal of my dad that
he did that.
283
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,680
But yeah, so that's so so and
then sometimes universities,
284
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,840
sometimes hospitals or the
hospitals have a tendency.
285
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,960
They just have unlimited budget.
They just, you know, they got
286
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,480
everything new.
And but I was just going crazy
287
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,960
being at home, you know, and
it's funny because I'm very
288
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,720
social, but I'm super shy about
initiating a conversation.
289
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,640
And, you know, once you give me
that little space, like once you
290
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120
like say, oh, hey, what's up?
Then like I'll pounce, you know,
291
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,440
like I'm totally comfortable.
But like, I could sit next to
292
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,680
you for two hours and I'd say a
word to you until you give me
293
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,720
that initial like green light
that like it's OK to talk, you
294
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,800
know, so I'm not a door to door
salesman kind of guy.
295
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,080
And so most of my sales come
from Google ads where I have a
296
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,960
company that manages, you know,
the people searching keywords.
297
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,480
I, you know, what pop up, we bid
for it.
298
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,080
So you pay $0.50 a dollar, $2.00
per click.
299
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,680
So, you know, we come up to I
think the first three ads on
300
00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:01,120
Google are always paid.
The first three search results
301
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,080
on Google are paid ads.
Not everyone realizes that, but
302
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,480
most of the time if you're
buying something, you're not
303
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,000
getting past the first three web
pages, web links anyway.
304
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000
So I, so I figure it's worth it.
And all my leads are hot leads
305
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,600
because anyone that calls me has
opted to go to my website, click
306
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,720
call or get a price or, you
know, you want to find out about
307
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,040
what, you know, why this machine
costs XY and Z and whatever it
308
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,880
is.
So I'm already getting that
309
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,080
green light from the time my
phone rings and I'm totally
310
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,600
happy to deal with that.
You know cold calling is
311
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,040
exhausting.
What's the company called?
312
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320
It's called absolute medical
equipment.
313
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,840
So what do I Google to get you
as my top link on the on my?
314
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,240
Feed you can search refurbished
GE ultrasound, refurbished
315
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,880
patient monitor, refurbished
DEXA machine.
316
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,760
A lot of people are buying DEXA
for health purposes now.
317
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,320
A lot of people are trying to
get their body fat, you know,
318
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,040
composition and they're trying
to get the whole body scans.
319
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,240
And we, I think, thank God,
we're really living in like, I
320
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,880
feel like an awakening in terms
of health, in terms of just, you
321
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,280
know, people realizing like, I
just can't keep living like
322
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,600
this, you know, and, and it's
great.
323
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,840
I think it's a beautiful thing,
you know, but most of the Duxes
324
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,840
that I sell now are to gyms and
to fitness centers and to
325
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,160
holistic doctors and stuff like
that.
326
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,640
And, and it's also not it's out
of pocket.
327
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,520
It's not insurance.
So, so it's a cash business,
328
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,480
which a lot of people like and
then a lot of 3D40 baby
329
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,840
ultrasound studios you go to the
way we go to one of those.
330
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,160
No, Yeah, I'll do they're.
Freaking man into the regular.
331
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,680
Yeah, so the doctor.
So if you haven't, if you have
332
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,040
another kid, let me know and
we'll bring over one of these 3D
333
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,280
machines and we could show you
the baby in 3D and you could see
334
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,400
it's you could see it's it's
features.
335
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,840
You see it's nose, it's eyes,
it's lips, the shape of its
336
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,920
ears.
You see everything you see.
337
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,720
And it's kind of freaky because
song like yellow and like black
338
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,280
and whatever, but it's cool.
It's cool.
339
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,320
Yeah, my wife refused to do it
for this kid.
340
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,320
So.
So Vegas.
341
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,080
So you went to Vegas?
Sorry, I I get distracted to be
342
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,200
ramble.
You went to Vegas and you and
343
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,920
you love it.
I do still love it.
344
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,000
You still love it.
I don't get back as much as I'd
345
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,720
like, but I still love it.
You still have like a life that
346
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,520
back there that you.
No, I've been gone a long time.
347
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,000
Yeah.
So I graduated from high school
348
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:23,480
in 2002, college 2006 and went
to DC for law school and went to
349
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,600
Florida in 2011.
OK, so between those times,
350
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,640
first of all, I know you play
college ball.
351
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:30,600
I want to talk to you about
that.
352
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,320
Why did you decide to go to law
school?
353
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,120
That's that's the the dream job.
Like that's what I thought I
354
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,800
would always do when I was a
kid, so.
355
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:42,640
Like.
Prestigious.
356
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,040
Like I would say if you asked me
probably when I was 17, what are
357
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:46,960
you going to do when you grow
up?
358
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,160
I would have said be a criminal
defense lawyer or an NBA
359
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,520
basketball player.
Yeah.
360
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,040
And you know, I don't even know
if I had the the physical
361
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,240
ability to be a super good
basketball players, to be a
362
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,119
professional.
I didn't have like the emotional
363
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,599
or mental drive to be a
tremendous basketball player.
364
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,280
No, I really didn't and I don't
know why.
365
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,400
Did you love the game?
Actually talk about that because
366
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,480
so Gayla was a soccer player and
she played in college as well
367
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,200
and she would have done anything
to keep playing soccer, but she
368
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,040
had injuries.
I never really had any serious
369
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:27,640
injuries but I I stopped playing
at UNLV just like decided I was
370
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,680
finished and then played again.
Went to Alaska, had a year of
371
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,160
eligibility.
Left in Alaska.
372
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,520
You played.
I did university.
373
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,280
University of Alaska.
Get out of here.
374
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,920
Decided I was finished.
I did Alaska.
375
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,480
Like Alaska?
I've been dying to get over
376
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,040
there, actually.
Did you like it?
377
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:45,800
It was interesting.
Isn't.
378
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:53,360
It crazy.
Alaska's not like at 21.
379
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,000
It's not a did you like it kind
of place.
380
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,320
It's just interesting place and
where I was was was so cold and
381
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,120
dark.
I mean, it was like.
382
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,640
Death throw you off?
I was going to ask that.
383
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,880
Like perpetual darkness or?
Light it was like my I have to
384
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,240
think longer to figure out like
what author I I want to like
385
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,720
compare this to.
OK, it was.
386
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,400
Like it was like.
It was like my coming of age in
387
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,200
a way.
Sure.
388
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,400
So.
Because it was challenging,
389
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,400
yeah.
Like Miami, Vegas, I had
390
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,600
difficult circumstances at every
chapter, but Alaska was was
391
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,800
lonely.
So whatever, whatever I went
392
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,720
through when I was a kid,
whatever I went through until I
393
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,120
was 2021, my family was always
close by.
394
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,360
Yeah, my friends were always
close by.
395
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,240
Alaska was geographically.
Isolating.
396
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,040
Super far and.
It's a 5 hour difference too,
397
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,880
right?
I'll give you an example that's
398
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,360
that still resonates even though
it's been forever.
399
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,800
Katrina happened while I was
there and family in New Orleans.
400
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,280
My dad's from Louisiana, and it
was like global news how
401
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,200
terrible this tragedy was.
I would see the newspaper that
402
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,880
talked about the tragedy in New
Orleans and it was like watching
403
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,160
a movie.
It wasn't real.
404
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,480
That's how far away I was.
It was like reading about
405
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,760
something like in a zombie
apocalypse film.
406
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:33,040
And that is one thing I remember
being so different about my life
407
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,680
experience up to that point was
it was geographically far.
408
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,480
It was culturally far.
It's brutally cold in the winter
409
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,360
time.
And this is metaphoric more than
410
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,960
literal, but you can only see
what's right in front of your
411
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,120
face.
What is that called?
412
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,760
Literally like you go outside
and you're like trying to find
413
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,800
the car door.
Yeah, that's the closest thing
414
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,800
that you can get to.
Take that and apply that to
415
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,680
life.
Yeah.
416
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,600
Everything else is like, I
wasn't literally in survival
417
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,840
mode.
I lived in an apartment.
418
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,000
We had heat.
Yeah, of course.
419
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,840
But yeah.
At school, I could eat the
420
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,800
cafeteria, but beyond that, it
was really, really bizarre.
421
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:22,600
And so I remember my sisters
being like, you're a lot.
422
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,080
You're a lot more serious of a
person.
423
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,600
And they didn't even mean like
serious demeanor.
424
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,200
They meant like, you're not like
a jokester.
425
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,320
Like you actually have goals
now?
426
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,160
Since you got there.
Since I came home from there, so
427
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,200
I was there for one school year.
Because I bet.
428
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,440
I bet.
Because the loneliness kind of
429
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,160
forces you to confront you, you
know, like who you are.
430
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,080
You have to get, you have to
deal with it.
431
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,120
That's a fact.
Yeah, it's, by the way, it's so
432
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,000
great that that.
I mean, I don't know if I would
433
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,800
like envy that, you know?
But don't you know, but but I
434
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,520
please.
Yeah, but I.
435
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,760
Yeah, don't envy it and don't
and and don't do it.
436
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,440
Don't.
Go to Alaska.
437
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,880
Well, no, I've been lonely for a
year.
438
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,200
I've been, you know, when I
moved to Seattle, it was
439
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,120
actually, so I've had a lot of
loneliness in my life.
440
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,640
And one of the probably the
valuable thing I got out of
441
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,440
college was I got a creative
writing literature degree.
442
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760
The valuable thing was learning
how to take the everything I was
443
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,480
bouncing around in my head into
my body, my guts and put it to
444
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,040
what it put words to it, you
know, And so when I'm
445
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,840
confronted, you know, and so I
learned that certain emotional
446
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480
weights, you know, when you feel
the weight of anxiety, you feel
447
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,880
the weight of loneliness or
isolation that those weights
448
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,480
actually have words that could
manif, you know, manifest what
449
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,040
they are and express what they
are.
450
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,640
And when you do that, you kind
of discover why you are feeling
451
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,600
what you're feeling, you know,
and where, where it's coming
452
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,520
from and who you are, you know,
and I would never have had that
453
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,440
if I didn't have that loneliness
and having that.
454
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,720
And with that understanding, I
from my, from not, you know, for
455
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,960
sure based on my other, you
know, I've been in a 2 1/2 year
456
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,640
relationship.
I've been in a year, a year long
457
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,160
relationship that was very
serious.
458
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,680
My marriage would have been
miserable if I didn't have the
459
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,040
opportunity to really discover
like who I am and like
460
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,320
understand myself so that I
could be eloquent and articulate
461
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,280
about the big things in life
that you got to go through with
462
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,920
the spouse.
You know, and even though it's
463
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,840
really, really painful and
challenging and difficult, I
464
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,840
think that you kind of peel back
a lot of the outside layers of
465
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,640
child like childishness,
childishness or childhood.
466
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,280
And like that really helps
convert you into a man.
467
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,560
Like you say, you said that
you're much more serious, you
468
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,040
know, not demeanor, but like you
know yourself now, like you know
469
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,400
what you're looking for.
You know, it's amazing.
470
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:00,960
I was.
I still was.
471
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,280
Figuring out what I was looking
for, but I was different at 21
472
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,640
than I was at 19 or 20 for sure.
Like that?
473
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,680
What was playing ball there
like?
474
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,880
So basketball actually was more
fun for me there than it was at
475
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:20,480
UNLVUNLV was was an honor.
I was I was very grateful to get
476
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,720
to play there.
And it was like, and we we were
477
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,960
never like an elite program
during that time.
478
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,320
But that's because UNLV was
still paying for having not
479
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,440
followed the rules to become an
elite program in the 90s.
480
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,640
So we were still probation and
always being supervised by the
481
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,560
NCAA.
A lot of things have changed
482
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,760
these days.
But what I'm going with this is,
483
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,600
you know, it was literally
fireworks.
484
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,360
Like there was a fire show
really, for home games.
485
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,760
That's so cool.
And I'm so blessed my parents
486
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,280
could come to every game at
home.
487
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,240
Yeah, I had one sister who was
still in high school, so she
488
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,840
could come when she wasn't doing
other things.
489
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,680
That's fine.
Alaska was in America, but
490
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,920
across the world and there was
no fireworks.
491
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:14,040
And it was a lot more akin to
like a high level high school
492
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,400
program in the sense that the
only fans are local people.
493
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,840
And we actually had some like
sold out games, but it was like
494
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,920
the people from Fairbanks, AK.
Yeah, it wasn't.
495
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,400
Like sure you.
Know.
496
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,680
What are the people?
They're like, They nice, really
497
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,120
like just kind of, you know
what?
498
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,440
I.
Can see I mean you.
499
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,200
Go in different cities, you get
different, you get different
500
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,480
personas.
You know, I mean like your
501
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,520
wife's from Illinois if I can.
Compare it having spent some
502
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:48,040
time in the Midwest, Fairbanks,
AK's like Topeka, KS, OK, if
503
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,280
that helps.
OK, so it's, it's, it's much
504
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,560
further away.
The the temperatures are, are
505
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,400
brutal in the winter is -50
everyday -40 to -60 was the
506
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,440
range so that people who choose
to remain in an environment like
507
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,080
this.
So they're not the same as
508
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,960
people in Illinois or Kansas or
anywhere else Indiana, but their
509
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,200
warmth.
I think to be honest, I think in
510
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,960
Hollywood we have a lot of
simplicity.
511
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,400
Like people want to have give
their kids a good life, they
512
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,200
want to have friends, they want
to laugh, they want to enjoy
513
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,480
things.
That's kind of similar to how
514
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,720
Alaska was, but on a more
extreme scale because it took a
515
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,040
lot of work to have basic
things, especially during the
516
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,400
winter time.
So that's how I would describe
517
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,640
it.
I think the people there were
518
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:50,720
were great.
They were great and I think no,
519
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,040
nothing really extreme stands
out to me in terms of highs or
520
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080
lows.
Everybody was just nice, normal.
521
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:59,600
It took.
Well, they had boots.
522
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,440
On all the time like that coats.
I could wear a ski mask.
523
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,000
How do you prepare for I could.
Wear a ski mask in a bank.
524
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,320
Everyone did it right.
It was.
525
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,640
Mr. Osborne, how can we?
That was a big difference.
526
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,680
That was a funny difference.
So funny.
527
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,040
It's so funny.
Don't do twice about it.
528
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,160
Before your generation, a little
bit, but young Buck was a rapper
529
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,440
and he's in Gu and it was $0.50
in them.
530
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,480
But on his album cover, he has
like a ski mask on, but he's
531
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,360
from like, Tennessee or
something.
532
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And not where, right, But you
533
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,040
could pull the ski mask on and
walk around and nobody was
534
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,240
suspicious of you.
One, because it was cold, but
535
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,480
two, because nobody's yeah, the
bank.
536
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,280
Yeah, yeah, I'm at the crime
rate I'm at.
537
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,560
The crime rate was real low,
right?
538
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,240
You weed out the criminals real
quickly.
539
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,000
You spend 2 days in the winter
here like nothing that anyone
540
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:55,480
here has is worth it.
They move.
541
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,400
They move to Vegas, they moved
to Nevada, they moved to LA,
542
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,840
they moved wherever that the
weather.
543
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Is last is not the place for
shenanigans.
544
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly.
I had a couple of customers
545
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,000
there.
I really wanted to go.
546
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,800
And when I was living in
Seattle, I was like, I wonder
547
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,240
how far it is to drive.
It would take too far.
548
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,160
The same amount of time as it
took for me to go from New York
549
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
just to Washington.
So far Cross.
550
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,560
Country is how far Alaska is
from Washington.
551
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,840
You know he.
Drove When I moved there, my dad
552
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,760
and I drove from Vegas to the
Port of Washington, OK.
553
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,160
And then we took a ferry.
That's a.
554
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,960
That's a.
Probably 16 hour drive.
555
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,520
I don't remember exactly, but it
was a long drive.
556
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,360
It was long, Yeah.
From Vegas to Port of
557
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,720
Washington, it took us, we
stopped reasonably.
558
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,200
So I think it might have taken
US 24 hours, OK or so on the
559
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,800
road.
And then we took a ferry 3 days
560
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,440
and three nights.
Wow to Haines, AK and then
561
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560
drove, can't remember exactly
now it's been so long, but I
562
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160
think another day wow to
Fairbanks.
563
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,680
So that was interesting too,
because one, we got to spend a
564
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,680
lot of a lot of quality time
together as a dad.
565
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,680
Now, my dad was a, he's, he's
retired now, but he was an
566
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,520
engineer and like very much a
busy professional.
567
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,360
It probably took us a week to
get to Alaska and he was able to
568
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,800
to spend that time to move me to
a second college.
569
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,400
Crazy.
And I cherished the trip, but
570
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600
also Tom, I appreciate it, but I
appreciate it even more now.
571
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:35,280
And I, I think easy, easy
decision for us, like if our
572
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,480
kid, if our oldest, he's 4 now,
in 14 years, wants to go to
573
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,640
school in Ireland or wherever
you're going to make that work.
574
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,400
But that's something I don't
take for granted.
575
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,680
And the other thing about the
distance was it was the
576
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440
summertime.
And in Alaska it was the summer,
577
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,120
but it was cold.
And where I lived in Alaska, it
578
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,840
was light all the time in the
summer.
579
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,800
And then in the winter time,
it's dark.
580
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,920
Yeah.
That's the other element of the.
581
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
It throws you off.
Loneliness slash.
582
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,920
Seasonal depression.
Despair.
583
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,080
Yeah, it's, uh, it's tough.
And it wasn't that tough.
584
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Like I knew I was going home in
Bay, so it wasn't that tough,
585
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,440
but still it was tough.
Yeah, yeah.
586
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,520
Because your our brains are
wired circuit, you know, they're
587
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,880
not wired to not have daylight
for the very three months or
588
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,240
five months or whatever it is.
Like, yeah, I know in Seattle
589
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960
that people used to get seasonal
depression from the from the
590
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,800
from the mist.
I kind of I, I understood that.
591
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,040
And they would get like these
UV, like these lamps that have
592
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,320
like this extra high, like UV or
extra bright or something like
593
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,040
that.
That apparently is supposed to
594
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,440
be a little better to like make
you feel like it's a little more
595
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,840
natural.
But it's I found that will help
596
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,600
to mitigate which Seattle you
could do, but you can't in
597
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,240
Alaska is actually to go for
walks and like just be outside
598
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,040
and get that like fresh air and
like really be with nature.
599
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600
And like even though it kind of
sucks that there's no light or
600
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120
not a lot of sunlight, at least
you're out with like you feel
601
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,280
like your whole system is
resetting.
602
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,120
But -40 negative 60.
What do you even where you just,
603
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,120
you just put on layer after
layer after layer.
604
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,200
Then you go to the gym and you
take off layer after layer delay
605
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,240
you just long.
Johns sweats at the time.
606
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:29,280
It's close with bag gear.
Yeah, so pocket warmers.
607
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,920
Pocket warmers, Little Yeah,
those are great.
608
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,840
Shoes in your in your pockets,
in your coat pocket.
609
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,760
But you don't.
You don't go outside, really.
610
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,520
I mean you.
You go to the car, from the car
611
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,400
to the gym to the grocery store,
wherever you're headed, and you
612
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,800
hope for the best, go for the
best.
613
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,400
There was there were times.
One time I had AI was out at
614
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,160
night.
I was going to see my little
615
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,200
brother from the Big Brothers.
Little Brothers.
616
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,160
Yeah.
Big Sisters.
617
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,680
Big Brothers, Big Sisters thing
program.
618
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,280
His name is KJ You.
Do that in Alaska.
619
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,480
I did, yeah.
And I was coming home from
620
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,120
seeing his him and his family
that lived in North Pole, AK.
621
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,360
I don't.
Even know what that is, but it
622
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,440
just sounds awful.
It's North Pole.
623
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,080
It's a town near Fairbanks, OK.
That north of it I bet, right?
624
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,120
I don't.
Really.
625
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:22,240
Remember, it was called North
Pole and it wasn't that it was
626
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720
colder in North Pole, but there
were no St. lights.
627
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,360
So I was leaving there and I was
like lost.
628
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,120
And I had like this is flip
phone days, had very limited
629
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,080
cell service.
And I wasn't really panicking,
630
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200
but it was a fact that I had to
find my way home.
631
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,760
Yeah.
Because you don't make it if you
632
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,320
don't.
Yeah.
633
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,720
And I don't, I don't remember
being that panicked about it.
634
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Like, I remember driving around
and being like, all right, let
635
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:48,840
me.
Yeah.
636
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,880
You try to retrace your staff,
but everything's like Frozen St.
637
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Everything looks the same.
And eventually I made it out to
638
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,080
whatever the main road was.
Or maybe I saw a car, followed
639
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,560
that car and they led to, like,
where the highway was.
640
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,960
But the reality was that you
slide off the ice into the
641
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,840
ditch, your car breaks down,
you're finished.
642
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,840
Yeah, tonight's the night.
Yeah, you see God tonight
643
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,960
because.
Yeah, wow.
644
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,640
It's crazy.
Yeah, it's so that aspect of it
645
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,720
is interesting too.
Like in Miami, you you can see
646
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,520
yourself dying any number of
ways.
647
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Sure, in Alaska you see yourself
potentially dying a number of
648
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,600
other ways, but there's no
overlap.
649
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,600
No, no, no, no.
It's got to have an impact on
650
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,800
the ecology of people that live
there.
651
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,720
It's got to make you a different
breed of human being, you know,
652
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,520
and I'm sure you know, for
better, for worse, in different
653
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,960
ways, you know, but got to be
crazy.
654
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,120
So people, I think it's been
many, many years.
655
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,120
I left there in 2006.
But I think people, people look
656
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,000
out for each other.
You see a car pulled over, you
657
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
stop.
Yeah.
658
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,280
You to check on them.
Yeah.
659
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,800
Here.
You know, right.
660
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,600
Like you breeze by.
Yeah.
661
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,120
My other thing.
About it picked up a hitchhiker
662
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,760
really and I don't remember that
it was that cold that night but
663
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640
we picked up a hitchhiker and
like gave him a ride it's a
664
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,280
different place it's different
and I think humans are the same
665
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,440
but the circumstances are so
different that you have to
666
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,800
there's.
Different moral code, almost
667
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,520
like a social code.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
668
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,240
And you don't want to be the guy
to ruin it for everyone.
669
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,240
Like no one wants to be the guy
that ruins it and no one else
670
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,760
could hitchhike, you know,
because.
671
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,720
Yeah, it's if you're out on the
road at night.
672
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,120
And that guy, I don't, I don't
remember being that cold that
673
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,800
night, that particular night,
but the night that I was coming
674
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,320
home from K JS house.
Yeah, that was crazy.
675
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,080
I was all right.
I didn't need a hitchhike.
676
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,560
But if I did, I really.
Yeah.
677
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,520
Yeah, yeah, I really needed a
ride.
678
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Yeah.
Wow.
679
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,640
So you were in Alaska for a
year?
680
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,280
One school year.
So I moved there in like the
681
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,160
summer and I graduated from
school.
682
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,800
Actually, I finished did.
You get your degree from UNLV.
683
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,560
Alaska.
Really.
684
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,400
Even though most of your credits
were from UNLV?
685
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Yeah.
So I had to do summer school.
686
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,159
So if school finished, will say
in May, I did summer school from
687
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,639
May to August.
Yeah, to get over the threshold
688
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,239
of credits.
Yeah, that you need to graduate.
689
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,400
Graduate from Alaska because I
would have had to, I mean, but I
690
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520
had another year of eligibility.
I would have had to go back to
691
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,000
Alaska.
Yeah, for another year.
692
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,400
I guess or go back to UNLV, But
it's what I did instead was I
693
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,440
took summer school, finished at
Alaska, then I would say UNLV
694
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,159
for a master's degree in
communication, Then I went to
695
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,199
law school in Georgetown.
Why did you get the master's
696
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:38,040
degree?
I had to get ready for law
697
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,360
school.
Yeah.
698
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,600
So you were doing it like while
you're studying for the LSAT and
699
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,920
you're, so you're basically
filling time, but responsibly,
700
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,800
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I had three jobs.
701
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,560
Really.
You know, doing.
702
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,520
I had a job at the amphitheater
selling tickets and picking up
703
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,840
popcorn.
OK, selling well, selling
704
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,280
tickets, selling popcorn, and
then sweeping up the popcorn at
705
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:57,920
the end of.
The night.
706
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,960
Nice, nice.
I taught public speaking at
707
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,960
UNLV.
Nice.
708
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,840
Really.
As a graduate.
709
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,280
Assistant.
That's fun to.
710
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,680
To freshmen and my third job was
at the United States Attorney's
711
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,120
office in Las Vegas, which is
when I discovered what it meant
712
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,720
to be a federal prosecutor,
right?
713
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,720
So that that two years was
preparation for law school.
714
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,960
But it changed my life in the
sense that I actually found my
715
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,640
purpose, at least when it comes
to being a lawyer, right?
716
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,560
Like, I wanted to be a lawyer
since I was a little boy.
717
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,760
Most of that understanding what
a lawyer was came from TV.
718
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Sure, either like, like
television shows or the news.
719
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,200
Yeah.
But working at the US Attorney's
720
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:55,910
office showed me, like, what?
Everyone calls the lawyers
721
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:59,310
heroes.
Yeah, so funny.
722
00:35:59,310 --> 00:36:03,110
OK, before I I want to, I want
to get to the law, but who are
723
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:06,390
who are your basketball heroes
and what was your playing style
724
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:07,430
like?
What would you play That's?
725
00:36:08,110 --> 00:36:11,280
Funny, I'll start with the the
playing style.
726
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,000
OK, do.
You remember Michael Finley?
727
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,080
Yeah, sure.
From Memphis, Right.
728
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,480
Mavericks.
Mavericks.
729
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,000
Right, right, right.
He wasn't in Memphis ever.
730
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,080
Maybe.
OK, yes, but yeah, sure.
731
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,200
When I was in high school, he
played for The Mavericks.
732
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,480
OK, that's the championship team
with Dirk and.
733
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,040
I'm not sure.
OK.
734
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,200
Anyway, yeah, Michael Finley.
He played, he played the three.
735
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,000
He's a lot taller than I like,
Probably 6-8 is my guess, but he
736
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,560
would shoot like from the wings.
He was a slasher.
737
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,120
Yeah, that's right.
Occasional 3 point shooter, but
738
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,880
I I thought as a kid that my
game was kind of modeled after
739
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:53,800
his and in terms of.
He's a good player, he's fun.
740
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,200
I remember playing with him in
two KA lot with with my younger
741
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,520
brothers.
He was drafted by the Sons,
742
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,480
played for The Mavericks, the
Spurs and eventually the Celtics
743
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,680
won the championship in O 7 to
to your.
744
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,440
Question.
There you go.
745
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,320
Right.
Yeah.
746
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,040
So that's one of my benefits.
I don't know why I'm thinking
747
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,840
that so.
I mean, I liked a lot of players
748
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,880
but but.
They're players that like what
749
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520
they did, like they, you know,
they have like the way they play
750
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,400
is like a link, like a like,
almost like a personal, like
751
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,160
fresh games.
Michael Jordan was definitely my
752
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,400
year.
I had the VHS tapes, yeah.
753
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,680
And when I was a kid, we didn't
really watch TV during the week,
754
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,000
OK, but I could watch the Bulls
game if it was on.
755
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,720
That's good.
I had an exception for the Bulls
756
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:36,120
games if my homework was done,
sure, as a kid.
757
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,920
So Michael Jordan for sure.
It's probably it to be honest,
758
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,480
because.
You weren't a huge NBA fan.
759
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,480
You just loved basketball.
You just.
760
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,000
Couldn't I liked the Bulls, I
liked Michael Jordan, not just
761
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,640
his play.
He was just an inspirational
762
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,120
figure.
He overcame adversity.
763
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,360
His dad died.
Like I think a lot of the
764
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,440
narrative around his career is
like a narrative that can
765
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,320
motivate you in life outside of
basketball.
766
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,560
And I think that's what a lot of
athletes these days, not that
767
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,400
they're missing it because I
think they're doing fine, but
768
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,280
that to me is a different.
Some people compare like this
769
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,760
generation to the old
generation.
770
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,040
I don't compare like their
skills.
771
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,960
I think this generation's skills
are obviously better, but
772
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,640
they're like cultural impact is
unparalleled.
773
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,120
What do you think?
Why do you think that is?
774
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:34,520
Storytelling has changed and
access has changed.
775
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,920
I think we we see too much these
days.
776
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Yeah, it's better to see them
as, like hidden figures that are
777
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,280
like these heroes on the court.
Yeah.
778
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,400
Well, he he was a So to use
Michael Jordan as an example, he
779
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,960
was a hero on and off the court
because like in the in the best
780
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,840
movies, the hero is imperfect,
has flaws.
781
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,240
Yeah.
Gambles too much, right?
782
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:58,600
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
783
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,560
Yeah, and that's what the press
would say.
784
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:08,040
Loses a family member and is
like in the in the in the tunnel
785
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,600
holding the the trophy, like
boohoo, crying with his
786
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,400
teammates, like on top of him.
Yeah, yeah.
787
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Yeah, yeah.
I've never experienced that,
788
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,000
Yeah.
But there's a there's a humanity
789
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,560
in that that everyone can relate
to.
790
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,720
Yeah.
And that to me hasn't been
791
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,480
replicated.
Even if the players that have
792
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,520
come after him, you know, if
they played one-on-one, you
793
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,280
know, 1997 athlete versus the
2025 athlete, sure, sure.
794
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,960
The 25 athlete has the
advantage, right.
795
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,240
It's.
Just obvious.
796
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,080
Well, they were like they were,
they were sweeping, especially
797
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,600
when I was growing up.
Like cultural basketball
798
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,880
moments, at least, you know, one
moment that I was that was
799
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,040
personally devastated about.
I was so sad.
800
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,640
Steve, nationally, my favorite
players.
801
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,560
I just love that he was kind of
passed first, but could also do
802
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,840
everything else.
And so like, he didn't need to
803
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,240
pass first, but he just chose
to.
804
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:04,440
And I thought that was really
cool.
805
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,080
And, and how good he was in
soccer.
806
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,720
I thought it was so much fun
that he could have played either
807
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:09,720
sport.
Super cool.
808
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,280
Yeah.
And and then there's one year
809
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,080
where it was one of his last
years that like, he was going to
810
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,800
like, he was clearly like
getting older and like, and
811
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,560
they're playing the Lakers.
It was him.
812
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,320
I think it was Amari and Shaq
against the league was in the
813
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,600
win the championship that year.
They played the magic with
814
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,720
Dwight Howard and Jamir Nelson
and the whole team and and I
815
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:39,040
think the sons lost in seven and
like Steve Nash crying at that
816
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,040
at the end of that game.
And like I was like, this guy's
817
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,880
not going to get a chance chance
to he's not going to win the
818
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,080
championship.
The rest of it, like, also it's
819
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,120
so sad, you know, but then also
like when LeBron and Chris Bosh
820
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,280
came to the Heat, you know, like
that was like culturally
821
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,800
shattering like that like was
felt everywhere.
822
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,720
I feel like, you know, umm, I
mean, maybe my own little world,
823
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,280
you know, but it just felt like
everyone, everyone was talking
824
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,640
about AT shirts were everywhere,
sweatshirts were everywhere,
825
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,440
sneakers were everywhere.
Like, yeah.
826
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,800
And then I don't know, and I
don't know whether it's me that
827
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,680
I lost some interest in it or I
don't know.
828
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,800
Like what you said, like if
there's less, if there's almost
829
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,480
too much exposure, which it's
almost like, you know, like the
830
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,640
way like, for example, Marvel,
like people are experiencing
831
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Marvel fatigue.
There's two Every other week is
832
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,800
a new Marvel, new Marvel movie
and new Marvel.
833
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,720
Show and a new hero.
And new hero, you know, and like
834
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:31,640
how many of them can you have
that you're really, really
835
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,840
invested in or attacked which.
One of the kids invested in,
836
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,040
yeah, Spider man.
Spider Man.
837
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,160
To this in the same in the same
in the same one time and I'm
838
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,840
going to be teased.
It is marvelous.
839
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,120
What's this?
Kids like it's Spidey.
840
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,080
Yeah, he doesn't stop your kid.
You sound like get to know.
841
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,720
Whoever you want to out here at
us, yeah, Spidey's the guy.
842
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,400
Yeah.
How many movies are there?
843
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,000
There's probably 12 of them.
So.
844
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,920
So you decided you want to be a
lawyer.
845
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,400
What was the biggest, what's the
biggest difference between TV
846
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,040
and television and stuff in real
life that you that you've
847
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,480
experienced in the in the long
world?
848
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,120
I'm curious about that.
Like what was your expectations?
849
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,600
And then like, oh, that's
nothing like anywhere near that.
850
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,800
And did someone tell you that
like, oh, this isn't like the
851
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,680
movies?
Or is it like, listen, like this
852
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,720
is your job and you got to do
this?
853
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:17,240
And like, that's nothing what I
thought it was.
854
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,080
Well, the reality is, for me, it
actually is kind of like the
855
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,320
movies.
Exactly.
856
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:28,520
Oh really?
That's.
857
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,000
Not that different.
Because then you're going to
858
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,160
trial, because you're going to
trial.
859
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,320
It's not that.
Different than the movies.
860
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,000
Wow.
So nobody told me either way OK
861
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,560
like the movies or it won't be
OK.
862
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:46,000
And and I'm not at the pinnacle
yet, but it's actually like the
863
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,480
movies.
How so can you?
864
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,840
Can you give me some?
Examples.
865
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,280
Sure, sure.
I'd give you some examples.
866
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600
You were you were a prosecutor.
Yeah, I, I, I did AI did a
867
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,520
Google.
I looked at your resume, but.
868
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,600
Prosecuted cartel you did a.
You, I did not know that part.
869
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,280
You prosecuted cartel, that part
style.
870
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,120
I thought.
I mean, I didn't search enough.
871
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,640
I didn't search.
I start on Google.
872
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,520
Really.
Start on Google.
873
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,320
Wow.
When, where, what I'll.
874
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,440
Tell you, I'll tell you all
about it.
875
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,680
So, so it's, it's not like the
this was not like the movies.
876
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,400
There is no camera.
So a lot of what you do, nobody
877
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,600
knows.
That to me is really the
878
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,160
difference.
And so speaking for myself and
879
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,360
others who have been either
elite prosecutors or elite
880
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,560
criminal defense attorneys,
there's nobody telling the story
881
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,400
of what you did or what you saw
or what you experienced.
882
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,680
That's what the movies for.
Beyond that, when there is a
883
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
movie.
It's like that.
884
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,040
It's like, do you think, do you
think it's because they just get
885
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,560
really good information and do
really good homework when
886
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,400
they're making the movies and
the shows and they're like,
887
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,360
yeah, you know what?
Like instead of just making up
888
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,240
what we think it is like we're
going to talk to like real
889
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:01,400
great, positive.
I think, I think a lot of times
890
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,400
the the movies about these types
of things, they talk to the real
891
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,920
people, right?
And it's so it's not so it's way
892
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,160
more glamorous.
Sure, you know, because
893
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:18,280
whoever's, whoever the actor is
is playing the person, but the
894
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,000
storyline with some
embellishments oftentimes is
895
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,120
close to the truth.
And so I would say I've had
896
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,120
really two significant chapters
in my career so far.
897
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,280
One was the prosecutor chapter,
now is the private practice
898
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,520
chapter.
And to be honest with you, both
899
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,400
chapters are kind of like the
movies but in different ways.
900
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:47,960
The prosecutor chapter, the the
cartel part of it at least,
901
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,600
which is like the last 2 1/2
years of it.
902
00:44:51,800 --> 00:45:00,040
I would be sitting in my office
on a Thursday and an agent, like
903
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,320
an actual American hero, like,
will walk in and say, we think
904
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,840
that, you know, cartel that will
go unnamed in Mexico is planning
905
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:22,320
to use a submarine to transport
$50 million worth of cocaine
906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,800
from one part of the world to
another part of the world.
907
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:33,560
We have an informant who knows
about this and has information.
908
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,600
We want to open an
investigation.
909
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,480
Are you interested?
So they offer you the case.
910
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,360
They're like, are you interested
in this?
911
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,160
Yeah.
And are you just like you and I
912
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:45,560
are?
How many?
913
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,920
How many, typically speaking, if
something like the cartel, first
914
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,320
of all, I'm sure people are
afraid to take that case, right?
915
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,440
Do people not want to get in the
bad side of the cartel or they
916
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,440
don't?
We're not.
917
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,840
We're not generally fearful of
that.
918
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:05,600
Like in my experience, the
professional traffickers of
919
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:11,640
drugs or humans or money
launderers, particularly
920
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,840
overseas, it's not part of the
business calculus, the risk
921
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,560
assessment.
I kill an American prosecutor or
922
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,800
agent like that's not, it's too
much, it's unnecessary.
923
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,840
That's not the business.
The business is to make profit
924
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,320
and to avoid being killed or
going to jail.
925
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,320
So to answer your question, when
that is brought to me, whether
926
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:42,520
it's a literal submersible
submarine investigation, which I
927
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:52,120
had, or corrupt law enforcement
overseas or just a cartel trying
928
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,360
to move into different types of
business in different parts of
929
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,840
the world, I never felt
personally at risk to, like,
930
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,920
have this conversation about the
investigation.
931
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,920
They're not worried about me.
Yeah.
932
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,200
The person that is actually
their their enemy persona, non
933
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,480
grata, if you will, is a person
who's in the organization.
934
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,120
They're telling you that's an
informant.
935
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:14,800
Yeah.
That person is in danger.
936
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,520
Yeah.
But that person could be making
937
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,200
a salary from the United States
government to provide
938
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,080
information.
Does the government make it
939
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,320
worthwhile or is it like the
rest of the government, like?
940
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:28,520
So worthwhile is relative.
Sure.
941
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,800
Depending on where you are in
the world, yeah.
942
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:37,840
So it wouldn't work well for you
because we have an
943
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,160
infrastructure and societal
construct to where we can make a
944
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,880
legitimate living.
So I never really, I didn't
945
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,360
really judge anyone that I
prosecuted.
946
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,640
But I think people in different
parts of the world, especially
947
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:55,960
where like their, their
government is like people
948
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,120
complain about ours, right?
But there's places in the world
949
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,600
where like, there is no court.
Yeah, there's, there's more than
950
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,360
one place in the world.
There's many places, right?
951
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,000
Right.
So in those kinds of places,
952
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,960
people have to react to their
their situation.
953
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,760
People in America do too.
My point kind of is like, it's
954
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,000
kind of like the movies.
It's to go back to.
955
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,560
Don't you ask me so.
So you so you got this case.
956
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,440
Do they, how many people do they
typically go through before?
957
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,400
Like are they looking for you to
accept them or are they waiting
958
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,600
to like say like do they
interview you to take the case?
959
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,280
Like how does that go?
It's kind of like business and.
960
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,600
And the same is true now in
private practice.
961
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,760
You do a good job and the rest,
the word spreads, Yeah.
962
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:49,960
And so it became relational.
So if I don't know, I worked
963
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,720
with, I worked with a lot of
tremendous agents, but it would
964
00:48:52,720 --> 00:49:02,560
be, let's say FBIDEA, Homeland
Security, ATF, those are the
965
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,160
main ones that deal with like
organized violent crime and drug
966
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:12,520
trafficking.
You just do a good job in one
967
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,640
case and then they will tell
their friends.
968
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,240
So it wouldn't be anyone.
Nobody's interviewing anyone.
969
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:21,600
It would just be like, hey, we
have a lead on XY and Z at
970
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,520
whatever stage.
It could be very, very beginning
971
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,520
stage.
It could be we have a couple
972
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,480
controlled calls.
We've see some drugs.
973
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,640
We're ready to prosecute In the
United States and in the federal
974
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,680
system.
In order to arrest somebody,
975
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,160
they have to have the permission
of the Department of Justice.
976
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:36,840
To make the arrest.
To make an.
977
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,880
Arrest and in order to get that
permission, what do you need to
978
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,240
present to them?
They they come to us.
979
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,800
Oh, OK.
And they say, to give you a
980
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:49,080
simple example, here is a a case
where we we bought a crystal
981
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,880
meth was big at the time.
We bought a kilo of crystal meth
982
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,000
from a person who lives in
Hialeah, Hollywood or whatever.
983
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,200
Yeah, sure.
Are you interested?
984
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,120
I probably would have been.
And so I can authorize them
985
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,680
based on the evidence that I've
seen.
986
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,680
We have to get a, a warrant to
arrest someone to go to a judge.
987
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Yeah.
I don't make the decision.
988
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,760
I make the decision to try.
Yeah.
989
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,400
The judge authorizes it.
OK.
990
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:15,560
And then they can go out and
arrest a person in Hollywood for
991
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,160
drug trafficking in Broward
County.
992
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,200
But in the federal system, the
agents have to have a prosecutor
993
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,160
sign off on that.
The the police, local police
994
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,640
don't They arrest somebody to
take them to jail.
995
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,920
And the prosecutor makes a
decision after the fact, right
996
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,840
about whether to actually pursue
the charges.
997
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,400
Oh, right.
Interesting, that's the
998
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,240
distinction.
Between local and federal.
999
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,960
Well, I'm going with this is an
international investigation.
1000
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,720
There's a lot more things you
have to take into account.
1001
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,880
So they would typically bring me
in or someone from my office in
1002
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,360
at the beginning and say we want
to buy crystal meth from this
1003
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,040
organization.
Here's what we have.
1004
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,200
This is what our informant says.
These are the recordings that
1005
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,400
we've made.
What do you think?
1006
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,320
And it's more collaborative from
the very beginning.
1007
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,960
And So what I'm going with this
is I basically would Monday
1008
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:04,520
through Friday, sometimes on
Saturday and Sunday, have like,
1009
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,080
I'm not saying this like I'm
saying this with all gratitude
1010
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,000
because it was really amazing.
Yeah, I would be in my office
1011
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,040
and I'd have like some FBI
agents here and then another
1012
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,040
group of FBI agents out outside
and some DEA agents, Homeland
1013
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,880
agents, and we would be solving
the problems of the world.
1014
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,640
I never did terrorism cases, so
not those problems, OK.
1015
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,080
But in terms of?
See really are making a big.
1016
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,040
Difference drug trafficking and
money laundering investigations.
1017
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,360
As far as South Florida goes,
we're doing it, man.
1018
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,400
Wow.
It was like the movies.
1019
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,160
And I would travel with them so
we would have investigations
1020
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,600
where we would go.
Are they nice?
1021
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,200
What do they like?
What do these people like?
1022
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,000
They're regular people.
Yeah, come to one of my parties,
1023
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:52,680
we meet.
Them.
1024
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,680
Yeah, OK, dude, I'm in, man.
They're.
1025
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Regular.
They're regular dudes.
1026
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:03,200
Awesome regular men and women
with families who have who chose
1027
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,280
law enforcement sometimes after
the military, sometimes instead
1028
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,960
of the military because they
want to serve and they do it
1029
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,000
anonymously.
They don't get any credit, they
1030
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,360
don't get criticism.
And it's amazing stuff.
1031
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:18,880
This actually dovetails well
with something I think is
1032
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,200
probably probably interesting.
At least Gala thinks it's
1033
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,600
interesting, right?
Like, so when we met, I was a
1034
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:28,400
prosecutor, and I was never,
like, worried somebody was going
1035
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:29,720
to try to kill me or anything
like that.
1036
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,400
But I did spend all my time
thinking about the kinds of
1037
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:34,560
things we're talking about now.
What?
1038
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,880
Do you mean in terms of?
Crime, like, yeah, I was.
1039
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,760
I wasn't worried for my own
safety really, but.
1040
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,160
You're just thinking about.
It I did spend all my time, all
1041
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:51,520
my time, really all my like
waking hours, sometimes my
1042
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,320
sleeping hours.
Everything become.
1043
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,040
Thinking about the most dark
things you think.
1044
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What does that do to you?
1045
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,680
That were you down you feel
like.
1046
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,040
It I I don't remember it
weighing me down, but it but it
1047
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,840
definitely changes you because
it has to.
1048
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,560
And I I like the job and I
didn't even leave that work for
1049
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,120
that reason, But that's probably
something.
1050
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,280
Some of the movies show it
though, like some of the movies
1051
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,680
that show like the cop who's
like the dichotomy of the cop,
1052
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,520
like training day is an example,
like films right where the cop
1053
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,080
is like high level but also like
totally corrupt himself or
1054
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,680
himself.
That doesn't happen to most
1055
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:42,160
people, but it can because
because you're like sure, cops
1056
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,080
more than the lawyer.
The cops are actually in
1057
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:50,400
relationships professionally
with actual criminals, mobsters.
1058
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:51,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Actual.
1059
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Do you?
Listen, you ever listen to Diary
1060
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,000
of a CEO?
You know, you know that podcast?
1061
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,160
No, it's a great podcast.
And he had on recently.
1062
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,000
I'll send you the link after the
most corrupt New York Police
1063
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,280
officer.
Like that was this guy's
1064
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,320
nickname and he had a drug
operation going.
1065
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,320
He was cheating on his wife all
the time.
1066
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:14,280
He was like, and he was like
the, and I hear this a lot based
1067
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,400
on different podcasts I listen
to, but like you feel like once
1068
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,160
you get started, you feel like
you're already corrupt and
1069
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,240
there's just no going like you
can't go back anymore.
1070
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:26,760
So you just have to keep going.
Like you feel like if I tell
1071
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,240
anyone that I moved ahead, you
know, I moved whatever amount of
1072
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:35,600
coke or meth or or, you know,
whatever it is, if I tell them
1073
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,800
I'm fired.
If I and I and I'm making 305070
1074
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,360
grand a year and I just made 10
grand in a week.
1075
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,240
Man too deep.
I guess so.
1076
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,120
Movies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1077
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,400
What did you think of the movie
The Trials of the Chicago 7?
1078
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Did you watch that?
I.
1079
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,720
Don't think that is Yeah, I I
didn't see that, so let I've
1080
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:55,680
seen the poster.
I haven't.
1081
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,240
Watched it.
Let me know.
1082
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,600
Yeah, if you if you ever watched
it, let me know you think it's
1083
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,440
actually one of my favorite
movies just because primarily
1084
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,440
the time period.
It's based on the 68 Chicago
1085
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,360
riots during the National
Democratic Convention and and
1086
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,800
the court case was whether or
not the people, whether the riot
1087
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,040
was started by the police or by
the protesters.
1088
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,720
And that was the premise of the
movie.
1089
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,680
And it was a very politically
based movie based on, you know,
1090
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:25,680
processing is the Vietnam War
and everything like that.
1091
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:33,400
But and, you know, I watched the
movie and and then I read about
1092
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,720
a lot of the characters in the
movie and that's kind of where I
1093
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:41,080
saw the the that's where like
life and and cinema kind of, you
1094
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,760
know, you know, go apart from
one another that like, you know,
1095
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,360
the characters themselves are
romanticized as like better
1096
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,760
people than they probably were.
Right, right.
1097
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,120
But but the case itself, I'd be
curious like what your thoughts
1098
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,240
were in terms of that.
But you'll have to you'll have
1099
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:54,360
to let me know if you ever
watched that.
1100
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,840
I will.
But OK, so you were prosecutor
1101
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,160
cartels D AM VI and how many
years do you do that for?
1102
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,760
In total 4 1/2 years.
The first couple years though, I
1103
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,520
didn't do cartels.
It was like when you first
1104
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,640
start, you do less organized
crime.
1105
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,600
Do cartels deal in Miami a lot
or South Florida?
1106
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:22,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, they're not they're.
1107
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,080
Not associated like Texas or
California or like the the
1108
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,680
states that are the states that
are bordering Mexico directly,
1109
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:34,160
you know where it's the.
So, so there's like I've been
1110
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,040
gone from that world for some
years now.
1111
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,800
So I'm sure it's evolved even
since then.
1112
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:44,080
But the base of organized crime
at least for our jurisdiction,
1113
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,920
so in Miami, our jurisdiction
was Miami, South Florida, but
1114
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,000
also the Caribbean and South
America and parts of Central
1115
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,080
America.
Somebody in New York or somebody
1116
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,720
in LA has jurisdiction over
other parts of the world
1117
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,240
international.
But for the world that we had
1118
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:05,520
jurisdiction over, the base of
the activity wouldn't
1119
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:10,120
necessarily be in Miami, but the
the product would come here.
1120
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,800
And so the money would be
generated here and then has to
1121
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,520
go back to the to to home base,
right.
1122
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:22,680
So there's like AI don't know if
you call it a continuum or
1123
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:29,400
there's a route for product in
money out that is constant.
1124
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,080
It's always it's an economy.
Yeah.
1125
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,280
So, yeah, cartels were busy
here.
1126
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,240
But also like, because we had
jurisdiction in other countries
1127
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,760
for crimes that touch the United
States, it didn't necessarily
1128
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,960
have to directly impact Miami
for us to.
1129
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,840
Be in law.
US meaning law enforcement to
1130
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,960
have the resources to
investigate and then the
1131
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:57,000
question would as a prosecutor
be based on what we discover, do
1132
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,160
I have jurisdiction in the
United States to bring a charge?
1133
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,960
And if so, can I, can I bring
that charge in South Florida?
1134
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,560
Because the agents would
sometimes investigate in
1135
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,960
partnership with law enforcement
from other countries, and the
1136
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,880
case would be brought in another
country, right?
1137
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,760
If that country has police in a
court.
1138
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,520
Which?
Sometimes they don't, sure.
1139
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,840
So that's kind of.
Like do you take into account
1140
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,120
whether the whether the when you
say they don't have a court, is
1141
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,360
that what because it's a corrupt
court, because they literally
1142
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,840
don't have a court sometimes or
either either either, right.
1143
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,960
So what's your thoughts on
extradition?
1144
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,480
It's your thoughts on like.
Bring somebody here or bring
1145
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,640
somebody here.
Either way, either way, like the
1146
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,800
notion of someone being in
another country that is not
1147
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,640
their jurisdiction and like the
other country shipping that
1148
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,440
individual back to there.
It is what it is.
1149
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,120
Gotcha.
I've, I've, I've never defended
1150
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,720
somebody in an extradition.
OK.
1151
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,160
I thought I wouldn't.
I just never done it.
1152
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,720
And I've definitely extradite
people to the United States
1153
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,680
where they were.
Because they did crimes in
1154
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,800
America, or because they were
being tried for their crimes in
1155
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:03,760
America?
Or both.
1156
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,840
They did crimes for which we had
jurisdiction to prosecute them
1157
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:13,720
in America, and we satisfied the
treaty requirements for their
1158
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,440
country or wherever they were
harbored to put them on the
1159
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,440
plane.
Which is why it is what it is
1160
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,280
which.
What it is, it is so so it's
1161
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,720
not.
It's the whole.
1162
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,120
Time you're working for the
government.
1163
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:27,880
That's alright.
Yeah, that time.
1164
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,160
So you're a government, You're
you're a federal employee.
1165
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,360
Got it.
And then you went private.
1166
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,840
Yeah.
And why did you do that?
1167
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,800
January 2019.
So six years ago?
1168
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:42,840
Yeah. 6-7 years ago.
Wow.
1169
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,640
Yeah, yeah, probably 2019.
Feels like yesterday, doesn't
1170
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:46,520
it?
Not to me.
1171
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:53,800
Not to him, to me, man.
Listen, dude, I remember 2019.
1172
00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:00,360
Like, the truth is, I think that
2022 to 2025 is the biggest
1173
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,840
blur, you know, from when I got
like, I think when I got married
1174
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,800
and like, my whole life became
based on like, being in one
1175
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,480
place and like planting my roots
and growing upward as opposed to
1176
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,200
discovering my place.
I think the time goes by a lot
1177
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,560
faster when you're in one place
settling your roots.
1178
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,800
Weren't you 23 and 2019?
I was 20.
1179
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,800
I don't know.
I was born December 95, 2019.
1180
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:31,720
No, I was older until I was 20.
I graduated College in 2017 and
1181
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,600
I was 20.
I just turned 22.
1182
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,760
How old are you now?
I'm 29. 2019 but six years ago,
1183
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,480
2019. 20. 4 Whatever that feels
like yesterday.
1184
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,240
It does.
It does feel like yesterday.
1185
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,280
By the way.
Dude, I don't know what
1186
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,160
happened.
I don't know what happened to
1187
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,320
2627 and 28.
Dude, I don't know what happened
1188
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,720
to that 20232425.
I remember.
1189
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,200
I remember distinctly.
I don't know.
1190
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:03,960
I don't know what it is, man.
I don't know.
1191
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,560
So OK, so you went, you went
private.
1192
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,720
So you so you let so was did you
want to leave or you were ready
1193
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:11,400
to leave?
I was ready.
1194
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,600
Would you ever go back?
Would you ever do that kind of
1195
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:19,320
work again?
I would, but as the, as the, as
1196
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,840
the chief, yeah, I wouldn't go
back and like be in court.
1197
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,200
I'd go back as the leader.
So then what would, what would,
1198
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,520
what's the difference in like
day-to-day life if you're going
1199
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,920
back as executive as opposed to
doing that?
1200
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:41,040
Historically, that would mean in
a lot of ways I'm an executive
1201
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:48,240
now and you would have basically
a significant role in
1202
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,880
recruiting.
You'd have a significant role in
1203
01:01:50,880 --> 01:02:00,480
executing the the US
government's law enforcement
1204
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,240
policies.
Really.
1205
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,520
And it would be focused, though,
on your jurisdiction, which in
1206
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,760
my case would be South Florida.
So I'd be, if I was to do that,
1207
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,880
I'd be the chief law enforcement
officer for the Southern
1208
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,080
District of Florida, which goes
from Key West to Fort Pierce.
1209
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,040
Cool.
So it's more you're not, it's
1210
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,480
not policy like you're not like
a politician, but you're a
1211
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,320
prosecutor who trains
prosecutors, who recruits
1212
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,680
prosecutors, who make sure that
prosecutors do the job the right
1213
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,400
way.
You don't really set locally,
1214
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,240
you don't set the priorities,
but you enforce them and you
1215
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:41,160
interpret them.
And relationally, your peers
1216
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,960
would be like the Miami head of
the FBI, the Miami head of the
1217
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,600
DEA.
So they're not going out
1218
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,400
arresting people either, but as
a team.
1219
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,240
You get bigger picture things.
You're doing the biggest picture
1220
01:02:53,240 --> 01:03:00,320
things with really like a focus
on overall community safety, but
1221
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,640
really like the most important
part of that to me is, is
1222
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,040
hiring.
Hiring, it's really important
1223
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,600
hiring and training.
That's what's that.
1224
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,920
Process like is it just that you
have to just sift through
1225
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,000
thousands of thousands of
applicants and?
1226
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,880
Your team does when I was hired.
This is in 2000.
1227
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:23,480
I'm gonna get more rights, by
the way.
1228
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:24,400
Again.
Yeah.
1229
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,680
Cool, I was hired in 2014.
If I remember correctly they
1230
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:32,200
were like 2000 applicants and
like five of us were hired.
1231
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,040
Wow, what stood out about your
resume that got you there?
1232
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,520
Was it your grades?
Was it your extracurriculars?
1233
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,840
Was it your?
Honest, to be honest, I think my
1234
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,520
resume was cool, but there's so
many applicants that it wasn't
1235
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,080
really my resume.
It was a mentor of mine who is
1236
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,280
Angel.
Angel, when I told him that I
1237
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,000
applied, actually directly
reached out to the person who at
1238
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,040
that time had the job that I'm
telling you about.
1239
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,160
OK, Willie.
OK, so my mentor, my brother
1240
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,360
now, but Willie.
Angel texted Willie and said I
1241
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:04,760
had lunch with the kid that you
should meet.
1242
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:07,920
Wow.
And.
1243
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:10,720
How did you meet?
How did you meet Angel?
1244
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:12,400
Angel worked with me at the
time.
1245
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:13,360
OK, Gotcha.
Yeah.
1246
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,120
And he had been, he had been a
prosecutor before.
1247
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,360
And we had lunch and I asked him
for advice and he said I advised
1248
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,800
you to send me your resume and
let me send some text messages
1249
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:24,720
because wow.
Good for you man, that.
1250
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,080
Applicants that, yeah, I don't
think they would have even seen
1251
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,480
my resume just because there's
so many people.
1252
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:35,600
Sure, sure, sure.
So the process then, I think
1253
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,120
it's very similar now, although
it's been, you know, 10 years or
1254
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,760
so.
You have like 3 rounds of
1255
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,360
interviews and then in the third
round you interview with the
1256
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,200
leadership team.
So what stood out?
1257
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,920
I think really more than more
than my like resume, it was
1258
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,880
really my commitment to serving
the community, which I've always
1259
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:55,760
had.
But at the time it wasn't like a
1260
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,160
second year lawyer.
So I didn't really know how to
1261
01:04:58,160 --> 01:04:59,760
do the courtroom things that I
do now.
1262
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:06,600
But I I could prove that like I
was really committed to to
1263
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,720
Miami.
Like I can prove that that
1264
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,560
that's beautiful.
And that stood out.
1265
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,240
And at the time, that's what
that was a that was one of the
1266
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,960
things that the office was
looking for.
1267
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,600
And that's how I got the job.
And there are, there are some
1268
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:22,760
people who get the job for that
reason.
1269
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,720
There are some people who get
the job for because they have
1270
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,000
the highest GPA because they
have, you know, like if I was to
1271
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,080
apply, not me, but a person like
me was applied.
1272
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,040
Now it could be because you
actually have trial experience
1273
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,160
and you can actually go to court
and win without being trained.
1274
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,120
Why have you be trained?
Yeah, yeah.
1275
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,720
And I bet they take that into
consideration, right?
1276
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,080
Whether or not you need to be
trained and all that.
1277
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,160
See, I needed to be trained.
You needed to.
1278
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,960
When you're trained, you're
trained in court, you're trained
1279
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,920
privately behind, closed.
Doors both both so you get
1280
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,680
trained in court and for the for
the Department of Justice
1281
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,040
prosecutors.
There's a school.
1282
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,200
You go to school in South
Carolina.
1283
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,880
South Carolina, two weeks.
Two weeks 2, weeks 2.
1284
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,440
Weeks trial school.
Wow, really?
1285
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,760
It's called trial advocacy.
Some trial BC program from the
1286
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,200
nature.
Can what I feel like this might
1287
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,440
be a crazy question.
I hope it's not.
1288
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:25,640
Does being a lawyer both as a
prosecutor and a defendant, does
1289
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,760
that give you like, what are the
flaws in the legal system?
1290
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:30,840
Do you like if somebody, if you
if you meet someone like this
1291
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,760
guy was convicted of XY and Z,
Do you think that guy had a
1292
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:35,320
crappy lawyer?
You think that guy's a criminal?
1293
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,240
Like how do you differentiate
between like where the law
1294
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,560
starts and where like the
criminal intent and behaviour
1295
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,520
and who the person is at, you
know, codes?
1296
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:50,280
That's a great question.
Because like, so much is like,
1297
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,280
so much is like in the nuance
and so much is like, not just
1298
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,320
about whether or not like it's
beyond.
1299
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,200
It's beyond a reasonable doubt,
right?
1300
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,080
Like that's the standard.
That's the standard, yeah.
1301
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,240
So I'll answer, I'll answer the
question literally and then I'll
1302
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:04,600
like.
Elaborate.
1303
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,840
Yeah, then I'll poeticize a
little bit.
1304
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,560
So when I meet somebody who has
been convicted, I don't really
1305
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,480
think anything.
You just think, oh, interesting,
1306
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:17,960
like that's just information
that you have.
1307
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,920
I don't think anything there's
new information.
1308
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,760
Yeah, like, all right.
It doesn't, it doesn't compute
1309
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,520
anything in terms of how they
ended up there in my mind
1310
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,520
because, and this goes to I
think the broader question that
1311
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,920
you're asking, because in my
mind you can end up there so
1312
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,680
many different ways and I have
no way to know which way it was
1313
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:44,080
like the bad lawyer maybe.
Or a great lawyer.
1314
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,240
Maybe, right.
Like maybe the bad lawyer, but
1315
01:07:48,800 --> 01:08:00,800
as a as a black man who is a
corporate defense lawyer who was
1316
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,640
a prosecutor, who was a black
boy, Yeah.
1317
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:14,120
And you can end up talking to
the police when you've done
1318
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:15,200
nothing wrong.
Yeah.
1319
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:19,560
It could be because somebody
that you know has done something
1320
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,359
wrong, which I've been in that
situation before.
1321
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,800
It can be because you've been
mistaken for someone.
1322
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,960
I've been in that situation
before.
1323
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,040
Really.
It could be because you're in
1324
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,640
the wrong place at the wrong
time.
1325
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,399
I've been in that situation
before.
1326
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:37,200
But to me, fundamentally, the
way I've avoided, avoided
1327
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,640
negative outcomes from all three
of those really goes back to
1328
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:45,120
family and goes back to
upbringing and self respect.
1329
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,080
And ultimately, this is not
something I probably had when I
1330
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,640
was super young, but as I got
older was like a respect for the
1331
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:57,920
power of law enforcement, right?
So this is a very narrow
1332
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:05,000
example.
It's a narrow example, but it's,
1333
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:15,560
you know, it's truly genuine to
say if a person stacks because
1334
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,359
of the neighborhood they live
in, the way they're taught to
1335
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:24,600
communicate with authority
because they they lack respect
1336
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:29,319
for whatever reason for
themselves, you could end up
1337
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:34,319
saying the wrong thing and be
arrested for that.
1338
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,240
Yeah, that's, that's like 1
extreme, right.
1339
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,880
The other extreme is you could
actually be a criminal.
1340
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:47,160
I think another extreme is you
could be a situational criminal.
1341
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:52,000
So you can be a criminal who has
like a who is has like a who's
1342
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,520
an immoral predator.
Those exist.
1343
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,360
Sure.
You could be a a criminal of
1344
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:01,800
like an opportunistic criminal
of greed.
1345
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,920
Yeah, there's all these
different ways this can all
1346
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,320
shake out.
But I guess what I'm going with
1347
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:10,000
this is before you get to the
bad criminal defense attorney,
1348
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,680
one of these things had to have
had to perceive that, right?
1349
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,200
One of these stories, right?
Had to happen before you needed
1350
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,440
a criminal defense lawyer who
could be good or bad, right?
1351
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,400
You could also be innocent and
end up with the criminal defense
1352
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,920
attorney.
Yeah, that's another path that's
1353
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,280
possible.
All this to say, when I meet
1354
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,800
somebody and they've been to
jail or they got convicted, I
1355
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:34,680
don't know which of these pasts
brought them.
1356
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:35,520
There.
Yeah, that.
1357
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,400
So that's what I'm asking.
There's enough room.
1358
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,400
There's so many different
little, like, cracks for people
1359
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,960
to just like, slip in along the
way of getting convicted, you
1360
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,280
know?
Some slip in.
1361
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,440
Some.
Hey, buddy, some really are.
1362
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:51,880
Some are bad, yeah.
Bad people, Some are not bad
1363
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,160
people, but they made a bad
decision.
1364
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,800
Yeah, some are not bad people.
They had really bad friends
1365
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,200
around them.
All these things are possible at
1366
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,120
the same time.
And I don't know who's who.
1367
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,120
When I was a prosecutor, my job
was to figure out who's who.
1368
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,920
It's not really my job now.
So I don't really know
1369
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,680
day-to-day.
If I meet somebody, I have no
1370
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,360
idea how they end up where they
are because I'm not involved
1371
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:15,040
anymore.
Yeah.
1372
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,800
And most of my work is, is
corporate.
1373
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,480
So like, I mean, I guess you
have an occasional CEO who's
1374
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:31,000
like truly like truly diabolical
businessman.
1375
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:39,040
But most, most of my clients had
a business idea and rely on
1376
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,440
their team.
And when we get the subpoena, we
1377
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:45,880
have to deal with it.
But most of the time it whatever
1378
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,720
causes us to have to deal with
the government wasn't most of
1379
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,680
the time wasn't the result of
like some corrupt case intent.
1380
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,880
Yeah.
Yeah, I understand.
1381
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,520
It happens.
Yeah, from my practice, most of
1382
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,320
the time that isn't what
predicated right us meeting
1383
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,040
with.
But you but but your but your
1384
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:09,400
experience has LED you to
understand that when you meet
1385
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,960
someone who has a record, you
meet someone who went to jail or
1386
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,640
convicted.
Whatever it is, it doesn't
1387
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,120
necessarily mean so much about
who they are.
1388
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,800
At all, at all.
And and that's that's my
1389
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,120
experience as a prosecutor, but
I think that's my experience
1390
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,240
also just.
What do you think about those
1391
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,880
people who have a hard time
getting out, like adjusting to
1392
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,840
their lives after they get out?
You know, like, like, you know,
1393
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,400
you get hired, you can't get,
you can't do, you can't get a
1394
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:35,880
job, you can't do anything.
I mean.
1395
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,840
It's the worst possible thing
you can imagine.
1396
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,080
I can't imagine dude.
And coming home is is terrible,
1397
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:50,280
but imagine being like locked up
in a cage or in a, you know, the
1398
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,680
equivalent of like a like a walk
in closet.
1399
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:04,840
So I mean, I I don't really have
like what I'll say is I never
1400
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,440
internalized or felt guilty
about my work.
1401
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:12,200
My work was righteous.
Yeah, but jail.
1402
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,640
Jail could be improved it.
Could.
1403
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,000
Be improved.
Is that something you consider?
1404
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,920
Is that something you consider
pursuing in the future?
1405
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,360
You're not sure it's?
Not on my plate.
1406
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,400
It's not on my plate personally,
but it can be improved.
1407
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,520
Yeah, I understand.
And in other countries, like for
1408
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,640
example, we went to Colombia for
investigations, their jails can
1409
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,200
be improved too.
But you can have but you can
1410
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,160
like see.
Your life, you could see your
1411
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,160
life, Yeah.
In the jail that I visited in
1412
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,760
Colombia, you could see your
wife.
1413
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,880
The jail could be approved.
I'm not saying it can't be
1414
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,600
approved.
They can all be improved.
1415
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:57,160
But you know, the the model, the
historical US model of like send
1416
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,320
these men, mostly men, some
women to like to some faraway
1417
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:08,480
place where they're cut off from
family, You know, is to me, to
1418
01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:13,040
me, from what I've seen doesn't
lead to improving society.
1419
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,720
I understand there are
definitely people that I've
1420
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,880
heard about a few that I've
encountered, not most some that
1421
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,560
I've encountered that I'm like,
send him, send him as far away
1422
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,720
from the rest of us as you can,
because he will actually will
1423
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,400
hurt people, physically hurt
people could be rape, could be
1424
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,760
murder, whatever.
For most people that go to jail,
1425
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,880
they, they deserve to be
punished if you will.
1426
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:45,040
But on a human level, to me, the
separation from from humanity
1427
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,320
doesn't do anybody favors.
That person and their family or
1428
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,680
the rest of us when they get
hottie.
1429
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't that's not really on
1430
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:56,000
my like my list of things to do.
Yeah, but it's something you've
1431
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,920
observed.
But to me, like that, we can do
1432
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:00,320
better, right?
Yeah.
1433
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,040
Like the rape, like the rape
culture in jail, we can do
1434
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:05,200
better than that.
Yeah, we could.
1435
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,360
That's not doing anybody any
favors.
1436
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:09,200
Yeah.
God doesn't look favorably on
1437
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,400
that.
I can imagine not Yeah, I can't
1438
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,880
imagine it's bad.
I can't imagine it's well
1439
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,600
endorsed.
It's like, endorsed and like,
1440
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:16,760
you know, Oh yeah.
You know, like.
1441
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:21,160
That's not cool.
Yeah, I, I can't I, we don't
1442
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:23,480
we'll have to do probably
another podcast.
1443
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:29,000
Take it to get to to get to the
to the defence part 10 minutes.
1444
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:33,600
I want to talk about family and
balancing family and work and
1445
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,520
career and ambitions and sure
and balancing your life because
1446
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,960
one thing that guy has so much
respect.
1447
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:46,960
Guy loves you.
Guy, by the way, I, I love him
1448
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:48,960
and one of the reasons why I
really, really love him is
1449
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:53,920
because he's genuinely always
looking to, he's always looking
1450
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,880
to be a better human being, Like
authentically like he's like,
1451
01:15:58,360 --> 01:15:59,440
what can you do about our
husband?
1452
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:01,360
What can you do about our dad?
A better businessman, a better
1453
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:02,760
friend.
Like he's just always thinking
1454
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,320
about that.
Like his decisions aren't based
1455
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,480
in like what I feel like doing
right now, but like, what's the
1456
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:10,440
right thing to do?
You know, and that's a really,
1457
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,280
and he looks up to you.
So like, as much as I enjoy
1458
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:19,920
like, you know, that mentality,
how do you like first, OK, how
1459
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:25,240
do you balance it?
And what do you you don't have
1460
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,640
to answer this if you don't want
to, but what do you?
1461
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:31,000
What's your struggle that you
feel like or like that voice in
1462
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:32,840
the back of your head that you
feel like you have to get over?
1463
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,120
Like, for example, mine is
you've done enough.
1464
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,480
You don't have to do anymore.
Or like it's too hard.
1465
01:16:37,480 --> 01:16:39,480
Don't bother.
Like that's usually like the
1466
01:16:39,480 --> 01:16:42,120
voice that I have to get past,
You know, this podcast too much
1467
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:43,240
effort.
Don't bother doing it.
1468
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,520
You know, don't you know, like
you did 2 episodes this week.
1469
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:46,960
That's enough.
You don't have to do anymore.
1470
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:52,600
So like I'm easily sat content
and I'm I hate that I'm lazy,
1471
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,000
but I you know, but I have a
tendency towards it.
1472
01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:58,040
So how do you balance work and
life and everything?
1473
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,800
And then like, what do you, what
ghost do you get past?
1474
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,000
Yeah.
All right.
1475
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:10,760
So how do I balance it?
A couple ways.
1476
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:16,160
So I use my calendar
religiously, OK.
1477
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:19,240
And I calendar everything months
out.
1478
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,680
It was challenging to get this
time booked because of trials
1479
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,720
which I can't calendar because I
don't know when they're going to
1480
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:32,800
happen outside of that.
My calendar currently goes out
1481
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,920
to September.
Wow, really?
1482
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:42,400
Yeah, yeah.
And it includes trips with the
1483
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:47,560
family.
It includes babysitting for like
1484
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,920
nights that I'm local and we'll
go on a date.
1485
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,160
So that's one thing that.
Organizing Health.
1486
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:02,400
Organize, like to the extent
possible and that takes a little
1487
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,520
bit of attention to detail, but
it's not over the top.
1488
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:07,720
But that's what that's been a
major, that's been a major thing
1489
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:20,320
for us #2 is communication and
intimacy with our kids.
1490
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:26,000
So the communication is, is with
Gayla about like where we're
1491
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:32,560
going this year in terms of like
as a family, as parents.
1492
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,400
So this is really probably boils
down to leadership in my
1493
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:40,840
worldview, being a leader of the
house in the sense that we do it
1494
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,440
collaboratively.
But really my goal is to
1495
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,800
facilitate her accomplishing
above and beyond her own goals,
1496
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,440
creating a platform for our kids
to do the same, even though it's
1497
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:58,240
even though they're young.
And then putting everything I
1498
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:03,440
have to do professionally in, in
the community in that context.
1499
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:07,440
So it's it's kind of like
leadership goal setting for the
1500
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:12,800
house for myself personally as
as her supporter, as her husband
1501
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,360
and then as a dad.
What happens if that deviates?
1502
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,480
What happens if like, something
falls off track or like
1503
01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:22,120
something doesn't go as you
like, you know, improvise or
1504
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:22,920
you?
Improvise.
1505
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,240
Improvise to be honest.
Like I can't think of an example
1506
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:27,520
like that.
OK, so most things have kind of
1507
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:30,880
like because you, you're, I'm
sure your plans are loosely
1508
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:33,160
enough that it's just
generalization like time with
1509
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:33,560
kids.
Yeah.
1510
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:34,760
And there's some time with what
there's.
1511
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,240
Simple goals like we need to go
see our family in Illinois,
1512
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:38,360
which is her family.
We need.
1513
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,320
You'll see my family in
Colorado.
1514
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,640
So they're, they're simple
goals, but they're things that
1515
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:48,400
if you don't, I think to your
question, if you don't focus on
1516
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,600
them and have a plan, you can
easily go a year or two years.
1517
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,360
Some people could attend right,
without focusing on time with
1518
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:02,320
their spouse, right.
So we have trips planned out
1519
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:04,640
where just she and I are going.
We have trips planned out with
1520
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,560
the kids to where everyone gets
quality time with me.
1521
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,600
So that's one thing that we've
done that has worked.
1522
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,760
And then in terms of the voice
in my head, I'll tell you, like
1523
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:23,800
the voice in my head recently
has been saying this is a Jay-Z
1524
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:25,320
line.
I actually used it in my trial
1525
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,120
last week.
He's a Jay-Z.
1526
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,440
Line in trial I did.
I've tried to use one in every
1527
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:32,400
trial you.
Said you quote Jay-Z or you just
1528
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,280
take the line.
You say like, oh, as Jay-Z says,
1529
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:35,560
or you say you just take the
line.
1530
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:38,840
I've.
Said as a in one trial, I said
1531
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,960
something to the effect of like,
as my favorite poet once said.
1532
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,840
OK.
This last trial I just said, OK,
1533
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:46,800
which was, is this what success
is about?
1534
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,240
He says, is this was success all
about?
1535
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:55,360
And so the the voice in my head
recently has been saying it's
1536
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,320
more of a question of like what
what's next?
1537
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,880
What is the future hold?
And when I asked, when I'm being
1538
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:09,040
asked that question, that like
voice in my head, it's like for
1539
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,520
me, but really it's for us.
And I don't know the answer.
1540
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,440
And I'm searching for that
answer.
1541
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,720
And I've been welcoming feedback
from clients, colleagues,
1542
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:26,920
friends from Gala, from like,
from, from like the voice.
1543
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,080
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, the.
1544
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:35,600
God voice of like I used to
dream about the future and and
1545
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:40,520
to be honest with you, the
dreams that I had have already
1546
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:41,000
happened.
It's.
1547
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:42,360
Great.
It's amazing.
1548
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:50,440
And is this what success is
about, right?
1549
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,640
Listen, I, I, I think it might
be though, right?
1550
01:21:54,640 --> 01:22:00,240
Like family, balanced life,
meaningful work that you feel,
1551
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:06,760
you know, accomplished about.
And I guess I, I, I do you think
1552
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,000
that it's going to strike you as
like, oh, that idea resonates
1553
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,200
with me or it's going to strike
you.
1554
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,840
Like I fall like I'm like, I
fall into it.
1555
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,160
And then it's like, oh, wow, I
really love this, you know,
1556
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:20,720
like, I know for example, I
don't like, like you said,
1557
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,280
you're OK, you open minded and
like trying new things and start
1558
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,760
like, I'm not, you know, I'm
really not.
1559
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,640
And like I judge books by their
cover naturally.
1560
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:34,720
Just very, very, you know, and
I'll go Netflix just based on
1561
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:36,880
like the name of this, of this
stupid show or movie.
1562
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:41,320
Like no, and like, and then like
this is all time like crap, I
1563
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:43,200
missed it.
You know, I'm like, you gotta
1564
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,080
watch it though.
So, so a lot of times you'll be
1565
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,200
until I start something, I'll
realize that that's what's
1566
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:49,040
valuable to me.
You know, like I do the when I
1567
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:51,720
do the podcast, I never knew
what I wanted to do.
1568
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,240
I did an episode and like every
single time I walk away from
1569
01:22:55,240 --> 01:23:01,640
like an episode and I have it
honest or emotional or open hour
1570
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,480
and a half, two hour, 3 hour
conversation with someone and we
1571
01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:08,560
connect and I learn and like
we're both being like open and
1572
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:12,440
expressive and honest.
I walk away feeling rejuvenated
1573
01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:17,040
and alive and like this is what
like like if I could do this all
1574
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:22,520
day every day, I would, you
know, it's so like so, but I had
1575
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,320
to try to even know that that
would even be the option, you
1576
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:26,880
know?
So like, do you think that
1577
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,600
you're going to have to conceive
of an idea and then try it or
1578
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,240
are you going to have or, you
know, you're going to have to
1579
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,160
just try a couple of different
things and like, oh, this is for
1580
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,880
me, you know, like, and I don't
know, you know.
1581
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,560
That's a great question and I
don't know the answer.
1582
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:40,400
Yeah, yeah, that's figure that
out.
1583
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,080
That's the that's the phase that
I'm in.
1584
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:48,280
And I'll tell you.
So I, you know, I shave most
1585
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,000
like most days, but when I don't
like my, my beard is like
1586
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:53,680
getting greyer and greyer.
Oh yeah.
1587
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:58,480
And a lot of times this kind of
goes back to, like, what I do,
1588
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,760
what I do, importance on that.
But you know, so often my
1589
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:06,480
opponent in court is like, 70.
Yeah, right.
1590
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:13,960
And of late, probably this year
that I turned 40 in August.
1591
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,320
So I'm like, chronologically
getting older.
1592
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:22,320
Like, my beard is graying.
Kids are growing up.
1593
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,240
They're still babies.
So like, that keeps me young.
1594
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:25,640
So I feel young.
Yeah.
1595
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,120
And then physically you're,
you're, you're, you're looking
1596
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:29,880
great.
Thank you man, I have a trainer
1597
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,520
who's also.
Aging, by the way, by the way,
1598
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:36,480
40 could be, you could there's
like a you're an age and there's
1599
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,800
your body age.
And like, I'm sure your body age
1600
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,720
isn't 40.
I'm sure your body age is in the
1601
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:44,400
year late 20s early 30s.
I appreciate that, but my but my
1602
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,080
but my mind remembers my age and
30s.
1603
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,880
Yes, I'm escaping that I've been
here a while.
1604
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:50,760
I'm.
Escaping that, yeah.
1605
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,440
So where I'm going?
With this is it is like a new
1606
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:55,840
this is.
This is the stage that I'm in
1607
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,880
now, which is I'm 40.
I'm blessed.
1608
01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:02,760
My parents are still with us.
They're healthy, Thank God.
1609
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,320
Our kids are growing up every
day.
1610
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,680
Every day is an adventure.
I'm learning every day I'm
1611
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,560
teaching something to someone
every day, especially
1612
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:21,760
professionally, I'm living the
dream that I used to have and
1613
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,560
I'm in a very pugilistic
profession.
1614
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:31,520
And the people that I'm
punishing day-to-day, 30 years
1615
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:33,000
older than me.
Wow.
1616
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:38,880
And I'm like, what does this all
mean?
1617
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,360
And I don't know the answer to
the question.
1618
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,640
And I actually like that, but
I'm searching.
1619
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,440
Yeah.
So I searched during the day,
1620
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:50,920
through conversation, through
dialogue, through observing
1621
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,840
others.
I searched like in my dreams.
1622
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:55,240
Do you?
Do you?
1623
01:25:55,480 --> 01:25:58,720
Remember your dreams a lot or.
When they matter, Yeah, Yeah,
1624
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,320
yeah.
But I like in like conscious
1625
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:03,600
when I'm sleeping of like,
what's the future hold.
1626
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,080
And I don't know the answer to
the question and I'm alright
1627
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:08,320
with that.
But it's like I found myself and
1628
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:16,240
I didn't necessarily expect
this, but when I was 2526, I
1629
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:17,640
dreamed about being a federal
prosecutor.
1630
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:19,680
That was.
That's cool.
1631
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:21,160
That was the pinnacle.
Yeah.
1632
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,360
I'm six years removed from the
pinnacle.
1633
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:31,440
Yeah.
Asking what's the, what's that
1634
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:32,120
cynical?
Yeah.
1635
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:38,080
And it's obviously my kids.
But they're like, major life
1636
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:39,920
events are years away.
Yeah.
1637
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:45,440
And so my job and I think your
job is to fill your own life
1638
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:51,760
with fulfillment so that we can
be the best parents to our like,
1639
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,440
yeah, kids at their milestones.
Yeah, yeah, in whatever, in
1640
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:58,560
whatever ways that manifests.
So you think you want to be more
1641
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:01,720
present, you want to you want to
be around more to help your kids
1642
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,640
be, but I don't know to what
extent you're around or not.
1643
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:09,320
You know, I'm just I but you
know, to be around to help, to
1644
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,480
be that.
You know, I said this already
1645
01:27:11,480 --> 01:27:16,520
and I saw the week, but there's
a Springsteen line that is so
1646
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:18,520
great.
He's like we're either ghosts or
1647
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,960
we're ancestors to our children,
you know, and like you have to
1648
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,560
choose what you're going to be.
And like, you could be a ghost
1649
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,800
where like, you know, you're
haunting at you're haunting them
1650
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,680
and like you're constantly like
you're the stuff of their
1651
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:31,480
nightmares.
Or you could be like the guiding
1652
01:27:31,480 --> 01:27:35,080
light and like live to see you
know the way that.
1653
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,720
Guiding White back.
Me too, man, me too.
1654
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,560
But you know what?
So it takes so much effort, it
1655
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,240
takes so much patience, takes so
much work.
1656
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,960
But dude, I hope to do this
again.
1657
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,720
I would love to do another, I'd
love to do another recording in
1658
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,480
a couple of months or, you know,
whatever it is.
1659
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:54,000
And next time we have and I
really appreciate your time.
1660
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,600
Thank you so much, dude.
And we'd even we, I feel like
1661
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:58,320
we're barely scratching the
surface of the bucket.
1662
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,400
You know, we're barely
scratching the surface over
1663
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:02,400
here.
But this is a lot of fun.
1664
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:03,600
I really appreciate you taking
the time.
1665
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:05,160
Thank you.
Thank you, man.
1666
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,360
I appreciate it.
All right, we'll do this again
1667
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:08,440
soon.
Bye everyone.