History Series 2: Jenny Chan / Pacific Atrocious / Japan, China USA WW2 / War Crimes

0:01 Welcome to another episode of Come Together. And we're back with another episode. Jenny Chan welcome. So happy to have you here. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. Listen, I, it's funny. I, I, I, I got, I get emails every now and then and, you know, for people asking to come on the show and, you know, I'd say maybe so far, 9 out of 10 times I kind of pass over them. But there's something about what you were, what about your, I guess both the combination of your subject and what you immediately started off saying, you know, about what you wanted to talk about. That really just caught my attention and I figured I'd do a quick Google search and see if you were real. And you were.

0:54 And that was great. I'm not a bot. I'm right here. I know, I know. And you know, it's funny. I, I, I'm doing the same thing because when I'm reaching out to people to come onto my show, you know, I'm like, I'm a real person. I probably, you know, here's some real episodes. I promise you could do a Google search. You know, I'm a real person, but there's a lot of bots out there. So I'm happy that we I'm happy. I double checked and I'm happy that you're here tonight. It's going to be great. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for actually accepting my health invitation to go on your podcast. My pleasure, my pleasure. So tell me, tell me about it a little bit about yourself, and tell me what we're going to be talking about tonight. Yes so I am the Co founder of Pacific atrocities education. My other Co founder moved on to do AI and tech and basically we're a nonprofit that research a lot about World War 2 in Asia. And we have in the last 10 years. We just really started out as kind of a hobby project and then I was trying to look for a job in this field, but I really couldn't find a job in this field. And so here I am 10 years later and I started out trying to figure out what had happened in Asia. Like when my grandma was alive, she I used to love watching anime and I was watching anime in front of her. I think like she even threw out a whole box of like manga that I kept under my bed.

2:23 And she was telling me that Japanese people are evil, you shouldn't really learn from them, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was thinking like, oh man, you know this, this old lady is racist. And I used to like hide my manga. And where would she live in? She lived in Hong Kong during the during the occupation of Hong Kong. And yeah. And so then I was thinking, wow, you know, this is crazy. And and then she would tell me stories here and there, like how she had her family had to exchange all of her money into military yen. And she was really like depressed, really like she I barely, I never heard her laugh, actually, now that we talk about it. And I think a lot of it had to stem from the war. And so then when she passed away, I really found this like box of military yen and like rice rationing coupon. And I thought like, wow, maybe what she was saying has some merits to there are some merits to what she was saying. And so then I started researching more about what had happened in World War Two.

3:32 I was reading on Wikipedia that like 30 million people perished. And I was reading some books and then and I there was really only one famous book about the subject is The Rape of Nanking. And then I was reading The Rising Sun by John Tolan and then I stumbled upon this book. It was really hard to find too. It's called the death Factory, which is about unit 731. I think we can talk more about it later in this podcast. And and then I was thinking that rebuff Nanking is good. It's like about 30,000 people getting is not good in terms of like the storyline, but like it got me to an understanding of what World War 2 was. But if 3300 thousand people in my mind, I was thinking, well, if this chapter is about 300,000 people, what happened to like the other?

4:24 You know, it's only 29.7 million people. Sorry it was that you hear my my dog. Yeah, put him outside. Let me put him outside. I'll be. Right back pause one second. I have two kids, so it's no big deal. I happen to be all the time. And so I was thinking if Reap of Nanking is about 1 episode of World War 2 in Asia and that was 300,000 people, then what happened to the 29.7 million other people? And so I was thinking I was trying to go really dig more into what was happening. And there's not a whole lot of like literature out there. In fact, one of the most important like fraction of World War 2 in Asia was called Quantum Army.

5:10 And our organization was the first organization, organization that published a book about the quantum army that started like World War 2 in Asia and Nigeria. Yeah, it was. That's a great question. So no one heard about it. So they staged a false flag event on September 18th, 1931, ten years before Pearl Harbor, and they invaded Manchuria. Who did? Yeah, I'm sorry, Japanese. OK, the Japanese Army. Great. I was for context, for mice, and I'm sure you know this very well. I don't know anything about this. And most Americans know very little even about where Asia is on a map, you know?

5:54 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. For context, can we, before we even get into that real quickly, just to lay it out, who was the conflict between at this point and what's the, what's the context, you know, geographically where is everyone at? And you know, what's relationship at this point? Can we start with that? In that way, we could kind of set the stage and set up a map for people that don't know, including myself. Yeah. No, that's perfect. That's a great question. Great. So geographically, Manchuria is in China and this is a conflict between Japan and China. OK, and where is Japan relative to China on a map?

6:37 And what do they what? What do they do? They fight over religious dogma, minerals, philosophy or forms of government. Like what? What are they? What's What's the conflict? More like a racial superiority because the Japanese at this point think that they're above their Asian neighbors. I see. And where and where are they at this point in terms of are they flourishing? Are they? What's their relationship with the rest of the world at this point? Yeah, why don't I start from 19 O 5 then? Yeah, please. So the United States had appeared in the Japanese shore in the 1800 actually and before and then Japan was somewhat of an isolationist country and.

7:22 And once the United States showed up with gumbo diplomacy forcing them to open trade, then they were thinking, wow, we're too weak. We need to learn from the West and we need to modernize. And so then they sent their best to the West to learn how to prepare militarily. And at the same time, China was really declining due to the addiction of opium and also their military was not was not really up to par in comparison to like what Japan was doing and. Was a cultural problem for China. Yes, it was a cultural problem and the government was really not too centrally controlling of their was, didn't really have control over their people and it's a cultural issue. It was a cultural issue.

8:18 It was a lack of modernization issue. They were still very behind in terms of like military, right? And so then what had happened is that since Japan was already getting up ahead and they had sent men to Harvard and Yale to learn like what the West look like and how they can become more like the West, then they sent a diplomat named Baron Conical to Teddy Roosevelt to try to negotiate to. So then and like basically formed this relationship. And at one point they formed this really well relationship that Teddy Roosevelt even brought Baron Conical to Wall Street to fundraise for to build up their military.

9:08 Wow, crazy. Historical Context. Yeah. OK. So right now, so the relationship between America and Japan is a positive relationship at this point. Very good and. America and China, what's their relationship? Not really existent at this point or. Actually, in Chinese, people were barred from coming into the United States by 1882 because they were working for cheaper labor. I mean, they were cheaper laborers. And so then white people, white miners and white workers kind of saw them as a competitor. And so there was the Chinese Exclusionary Act of 1882. And history repeats itself.

9:48 You can see a. Lot about to say that's actually relevant. I don't know, it sounds pretty crazy. And so then in 1882, Chinese people were excluded from the country. And there were also a lot of massacres happening with Chinese people, with Americans. And the biggest, the biggest lynching event in this country, I think, well at least in California, was actually on Chinese Americans in the LA Chinese massacre. And there was actually no Chinese. What happened there? They lynched a bunch of Chinese workers because they were working for cheaper and a lot of like, a lot of things were just blamed onto them. Did they, was it, was it, was there ever Chinese responses or, you know, did they ever, you know, fight back for themselves? There was a trade war, yeah, in the night, like early 1900s. And so this is like really?

10:49 So the trade war. This is this is, this is modern events. I mean just, you know. Exactly And so the trade war of China, US you can argue started in like the early 1900, right Wow. And so and so that's the context with China and. Conscious so we like Japan we're we're not on a great terms with China because they're sending cheap because we because Americans perceive that this or they they're complaining that that the Chinese people are willing to work for cheaper than Americans and and ultimately leading to violent and murderous responses right exactly never good.

11:30 And then it's so fascinating because Teddy Roosevelt also won a Nobel Peace Prize by giving Korea to Japan in 19 O 5. And so Korea was then under Japan's torture for starting in 19 O 5. And Japan had a similar relationship to Korea as they do, as they did with other countries, as in they felt superior and they felt they kind of bully them. Yes. And yeah. And so then, and if you look on the map, Korea's very close to Manchuria. You can pull it up. You can look it up right now. Yeah, I actually, I wanted to get the map open for this conversation because I wanted to, I I didn't want to go into those details. Cool.

12:14 Yeah. So OK, I'm here. So Manchuria today is called Northeast China. OK. Northeast China. Gotcha. And so here, right next to Mongolia, you see that little like, oh shit, here. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, and Korea, so you can see how close Korea it was to it still is to Japan. And then just next to that, that's Manchuria. And so Japan thought, well, why don't I in by the 19, By 1931, they started a false flag event and took over Manchuria as well.

13:00 This is like, I mean decades of history that I just like, really blended in. Yeah, yeah, OK. But we're going to maybe we'll do another one with that, but we'll focus on World War 2 for the rest, for the rest of this, because I do want to go. I'm sure. I'm sure I'd love to go back to that too. But yes. And it's interesting because at this point in 1931, US was also kind of exploiting China in the open door policy. So then they have different kind of trade. US won the trade war at that point. So China had an open, there was an open door policy, which is to kind of exploit the trade rules. And because of Japan invading China, now US doesn't.

13:45 Japan closed the door. For the US, no way so that so that causes US and Japan relationships to to fall apart. Right, but US was still selling steel and oil to Japan during the Rape of Nanking. It just, it just so happened that Pearl Harbor stopped that right? So 10 years later. Ten years later, right. So let's let's talk a little bit about those 10 years and let's talk about so so World War 2. So at this point, again, you know, when we were talking the phone, we were saying how during when people think about World War Two, we think about Europe, we think about Hitler, we think about Eastern Europe and, you know, Nazi Germany. And we don't really talk about, you know, what Asia's involvement was at all.

14:32 And you say that part of the reason was that a lot of the documentation was classified. Is that what it was? Is that what you mentioned? Yes, a lot of it was classified until like very recently. And also when Japan surrendered, they burned most of the documents. So whatever we find is just by chance that we can, we were able to find it. So we're not going to get the full picture really, because we have too many missing pieces. No, yeah, yeah, really. But we get like a part of the picture, which is still pretty good. I think it's still pretty like illuminating. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely so. And I actually want to ask as far as, and I wanted, and you brought this up at the beginning. Now, I guess now that we have a little more context, we could go back to what you were talking about. And you mentioned that your grandmother was complaining and was particularly upset about the fact that the that their that their her family was forced to trade their money in for military yen instead of whatever currency they had. Right?

15:29 Yes, I want to just maybe you can elaborate on what kind of impact that has on the family because I, I, you know, my grandfather had a similar story. My grandfather was in Poland at the time on the border between, I believe it is Ukraine and Russia, and that's and the USSR at the time. And his family and his family knew that Germany was going to overtake, you know, Poland. And so the question was, do they go to Ukraine and go or go to the go, go, you know, go to the USSR or they or they go to the, you know, to, to the, to Germany, what would become Germany, you know, once Poland fell. And, and that happens to be the town was on the border. And within a couple of years, the town had shifted, I guess, sovereignty a few times.

16:19 And they went from being a very wealthy family to having no money at all just based on being forced to keep on swapping their currency over to other to other countries currencies, you know, and they and they lost an enormous amount of money like that. So. So, I mean, I don't know if you can elaborate as, as you know what that means for your family, but I know that, you know, yeah. Definitely and. That's great. Very, very interesting. And military yen basically had like no value by the end of the war. And so our families have very similar stories than that. After the war, my grandma's family was left with no money. Wow, wow, because the money, because the money at that point for Chinese military yen was worth like.

17:04 No, the Japanese military. Yeah, I'm sorry. So at first in the beginning of the war, I was reading about this. At beginning of the war, Hong Kong dollars to the Japanese military yen was 1 to 1. Then it became like 1 to 10 and then it become like 1 to 100 and. Then was that dramatic? Right. Yeah. And then so by the end of the war, it was worth nothing because Japan had fallen. And so then for these people, you know, my it was worth less than toilet paper. Wow. Wow. Crazy. I can't imagine. I mean, it's like, equivalent to everything. My bank account just being worthless now, you know, everyone's savings just gone, you know, and like, because.

17:45 OK, well, you know what? We owe so much money to everyone else that you know what? The euro is the new currency now and then the American dollar is worth a lot less. And think about what would happen to everyone here. That'd be crazy. Yeah. But right now, inflation is scary in our country, don't you think? I think. Inflation may be one of the scariest things to me, and I've been thinking about this quite a bit, but I my. My fear is that the emphasis is on the wrong syllable when it comes to cutting, you know, cutting spending. And, you know, my understanding at this moment, at this time is that there's America, the homeland, which is all the people that live here and work and create value and, you know, participate and contribute to the, you know, economy and social culture and political climate and everything.

18:39 And then there's America, the empire, which is interested in what they call spreading democracy or, you know, getting people under the American thumb, you know, a rule. And the empire gets its source of energy, you know, it's, it's money literally from the taxpayers, you know, from the people that are working here. And then but they're, they've been overspending on the on empire building to the extent that the people that are providing the funds for the empire to continue growing are running out of money and running out of resources. And we're not creating, you know, we're, we're printing more money than actual value created and actual services provided. And so, you know, my concern, my concern for inflation is not just like, oh, everyone has to stop spending a couple of bucks here and there and start budgeting. It's like we have to stop expanding, you know, all over the world for a little while and focus on, you know, we regathering our efforts.

19:38 Yeah, and focus on us for a little while. And, you know, and less wars and it looks like we're getting into more now. And it's almost like we left the Middle East. Like we're like, you know what, there's no more damage to do here. Let's go to South America now. You know, like, OK, I mean if you want to, but it doesn't look, I don't think it's going to work for anyone, so. I really don't think so either. But that's that's my concern. And I think they're very focused on having other people be like them. Right. And then let's spread democracy. And yeah. But anyway, I digress. Let's go back. To yes, let's do it. So anyway, so you're finding out, so you're finding, you're realizing that there's very little history and you're doing homework now to try to dig up more work.

20:19 And you ended up being, do you end up writing the book or participating in the book about the, about the quantum army? Quantum army. I help my my research fellow in researching and like, awesome. Yeah. But it was hard work because a lot of these like National Archives maps and paper and whatnot, they're actually very fragile. They're 80 years old. And in fact, this is 1 trivial fact that the Civil War papers are actually in better shape than World War 2 papers. Because in Civil War, paper was still printed out of like cotton paper. And by the time of World War Two, there was no resources. So it's all onion pure paper.

21:03 Wow, that's crazy. And you said that none of that. And you said that very, very few of the documentation, if any, had been digitized, right? Yeah, it's like maybe 1% in the National Archives have done because we're too busy fighting wars. And so then I was just like, well, let's just do it because we're already here. So we were digitizing and I think now we have like 1,000,000 pages of like World War 2 documents related to like Unit 731 to the Quantum Army, to like Manchuria, to like the policy at the time and also like war crimes document and like the Philippines, the baton death March. And so we have all kinds of things, yeah.

21:46 OK, well, let's tackle, let's tackle these topics. You want to I right now I caught 4 things. You got Unit 731, the quantum army. Man, I want to talk about, I mean, if you want to elaborate a little bit more in the history, it seems that you mentioned Manchuria a bunch of times and maybe the context a little bit more about what that is about the crimes or war crimes, which I would love to hear more about, you know? Yeah. So Manchuria is actually very fascinating. Like the more I look at it, the more fascinating it was like Japan conquer it for this kind of economic utopia because it's a very like resource rich land. And so they had forced laborers who they like got, they grabbed 4 million like forced laborers from Korea and from China to work on this land and from going from like mining to manufacturing. And also Unit 731, the infamous Unit 731 is located there, actually not too infamous because not a lot of people have.

22:48 Who knows about it, right? Exactly. You get infamous. So how do you? You have to be infamous if people heard about it. That's right, That's right. So tell me. So tell me about so it's so and, and who was fighting over it at this point? You said that Japan conquered it. Who else was interested in it? I'm trying to find it on a map over here. Maybe type in northeast northeast China? It's how far is it here Is Beijing, North Korea, Shenyang. Shenyang is a part of Manchuria. OK, gotcha. OK, gotcha. Gotcha. So it's right by the oh, it's on the border of the Koreas. Yes. OK.

23:29 I see exactly what we're talking about now. And it looks like, So it it, it looks and is Dalian part of it? It's Dandong. Thailand is part of it. Hey, you see? Hey, Long Jian. So it's valuable because it's on the water and it's bordering. Yeah, OK, gotcha. So it's good for trade, it's good for resources. It's probably really important militarily as far as strategy goes, yes. Because Russia is also there and Russia had built this railroad that was funded by the French. And since Japan captured, they didn't no longer had to pay back the French. And then, wow, French financial company had to file bankruptcy at the time. Yeah, I can imagine.

24:12 You imagine you got a great business deal, and all of a sudden you found out that the company that was that was doing your work for you got conquered by another country. Yeah, there. Was a lot going on internationally at this time yeah. And so, yeah, so you can see that this is what do the people. Consider themselves. What are the people that are there? Do they do they consider themselves Chinese? Do they consider themselves? Japanese. That's actually a very interesting question. So, you know, the last dynasty of China was not actually the Han Chinese, they were actually the Manchurian Chinese. And before the last dynasty of China, Manchuria was not considered a part of China. But because they had invaded China, they incorporated them that region into China itself. And that's why it was then considered Manchuria, China. Cool.

25:02 Gotcha. Awesome. And the people, now where do the people? Yeah, they're Manchuria. They consider themselves Chinese. It's considered the northeast part of China. Yeah, I see. OK, awesome. That's great context and I really that's really good to know. What's the is this a da, the Hingun Ling is, are those mountains? Is that a mountain range just north of it, north of Chen Chung? Chen Chung? Oh, that's Harbin. North of Chen Chung is Harbin. And and then there's Halem. Yeah, Halo between. Yeah, between Harbin and Halo. Between Harbin. Yeah, if you're looking at my phone, you could see. That's a lake, yeah.

25:51 It's a lake. It looks dry to yeah. OK, anyway, so let's keep going. So now, so this place is obvious and by the way, and it's pretty. Has it been is maturely considered like calm or is it considered relatively unstable since since World War 2? The time was considered rural, and that's why they decided that it's a good idea to start a human experimentation lab there, because no one's going to know. OK, so tell us about 7:31, which I guess is a human experimentation lab. Tell me about it. Yeah. So at the time of Japan occupying Manchuria, Ishishiro has started a lab in Tokyo.

26:35 But then it was way too high profile, and he was afraid of, like, Karen's telling on him and whatnot. And so then he decided to move his lab to Manchuria. So he took a road trip with his friends to consider like, oh, where am I going to put this lab? And he picked the soy sauce factory. But even like at a remote area with the soy sauce factory, like these prisoners were still able to escape from his human experimentation. So then he was thinking, maybe that's not remote enough. So then he took over a village in Ping Fong to start his human experimentation lab. And what kind of experiments were they doing?

27:15 Was this lane I in World War 2 was notorious for human experimentation apparently and. Yes, you know. It's crazy that even more of it's going on. What were they trying to do there? They were trying to treat frostbites. They were trying to make biological war weapons because he had read the Geneva Convention and he said that, well, if the Geneva, if it's so powerful, if germs so powerful that they needed to write rules about it, we need to harness this kind of germs. And so then he was making weapons. At one point he was making fleas. So then the fleas can, what you call it, transfer the plague and but then the order in order to make more fleas he needed more rats.

28:05 So then he was paying villagers in these like other villages to breed rats. So then he can breed more fleas to spray to spread the plague with his ceramic bomb that is. It sounds so disgusting that I'm just like, OK, what did I just say? You know what? So you know what? It's funny that you say that. I, I, I was, I did, I was thinking about this a lot recently. Sometimes, you know, you we hear things that sound so far fetched that we just dismiss it out of hand because we don't even want to like think about the fact that could be reality. You know, and like you hear things like no, that just can't be true.

28:46 Like come on, bugs that you give a disease to it that goes around and ice like a bomb, you know, like fleas. I go around and say acts like a weapon like to get everyone sick and like how you even in control that you going to do but I mean. How are you going to control that? And so, like, as part of what I was thinking about when I was reading these documents, I'm like, OK, so Japan wanted to occupy China, but what the hell are they going to do with, like, no soil, with glanders and anthrax? What were they thinking? It's not like you can just pour bleach and then like, stop the plague, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's almost like self-inflicted wound at that point. Right, exactly. Wow. But then they were doing human experimentation to see like also how human bodies would react to the plague, for example, and, and talk about destroying like data and documents.

29:37 It's very interesting because if you think about it, you, we can never know about how many humans were captured in this human experimentation lab because they started from because in order to figure out like to number the victims or to to dehumanize the victims, they gave them like numbers. So it goes from like zero to 1000 and then they start to count against and then from zero to another thousand. So we never know. And then they were calling these victims Logs or Maruta just to like dehumanize them. And So what? Does Amaruta mean?

30:19 Amaruta means log in Japanese. Log. Yeah, yes. And I was reading like the special transfer order from the quantum army and then they were saying, oh, how many, however many Maruta captured. Then you already figured out like, OK, so they were capturing humans. They were not using it as like logs or like lumber mill whatnot. So it's just like, so that's why we can never know how many humans were used for human experimentation. But then like, the consequences of Unit 731 is also severe because they were using it on like soil on China, for example.

31:01 Let's go back to Pearl Harbor, right? Like Americans know about Pearl Harbor, but right after Pearl Harbor, FDR wanted to attack, attacked Japan back for morale. And So what they did was that they sent these pilots out to to Tokyo, but it was like a one way ticket and but they can maybe possibly make it back to China. And so then they landed in Chinese airfields in like Zhejiang province. And they then sprinkled and then Chinese people rescued these pilots who landed in China. And in order for to revenge on these Chinese villages, then the Japanese Unit 731 disseminated anthrax and glanders in the soil.

31:52 And so for decades later, these farmers who were working on this land would get like, would get glanders and anthrax on their legs and their their legs, their skin would like rot. And it was. Happening. No, the crops were, yes, the crops were destroyed. And so, yeah, so this is the kind of like things that were happening in World War 2 in China. And so I was thinking when I was reading through I'm like, wow, why have I never learned about this? This sounds, and it's interesting because the lawsuit happened like in maybe in 2002 as well up into 2002 where they were really trying, a lot of the Chinese victims went to the Japanese court to try to get reparation or whatnot because it was really affecting their livelihood.

32:46 And the court said, well, we, we acknowledge that it happened, but there's, we cannot pay because it was like a time of war. And so, yeah, so I'm, I didn't make it up, but it really didn't happen because the Japanese court didn't admit it. Yeah. And you know what, it's, it's interesting because you think about it's a different type of atrocity. You know, like you read, you read stories about what was going on in, I guess Eastern Europe or throughout Europe, and you hear more stories of decapitations and mass body pileups and, you know, mass shootings and stuff like that.

33:28 And this almost feels like, you know, we're not going to do that straight up. We're going to like infect you, We're going to get you like we're we're just going to it it it it almost feels sneakier in a certain way. You know that like it's a lot. It's almost like passive. So it's passive and it's it's probably more intelligent. It's got to be smarter warfare, right, Because you're not giving there's no face to the to the crime. There's no, there's no name, there's no face. There's very little association. There's very little documentation and then today you can say everything you want and you can know that it happened, but there's no one to be held accountable at any point. You know you don't have any kind of records. Right. Exactly. And and after the war, the Soviets went into China and the first thing Ishiro did was to burn all the records. And he, he apparently he did save a copy for like his luggage and he went to Japan and he fixed his own death, but the CIA found him.

34:27 Wow, they were looking for him. They were looking for him, but they ended up buying his research just because. Yeah, I. Wonder why they? Needed it. I bet for science, for science, right, that we need it more. And so if you like hear about like anthrax that remember all those anthrax attacks, a lot of people don't remember this, but like an anthrax attacks in like 2001 that all came from Japanese technology dating back to World War 2. Wow, so it was out of the playbook. Yeah. Wow, crazy. So OK, what?

35:10 I know this is like an evening time. You're like, OK, I'm trying to go to bed. No, no. I know I, I, I, I think this is this is important. This is, this is important. This is great to think about. So, so this so right now and this is post, this is post Pearl Harbor. This pre Pearl Harbor has America, has American and Japanese relationships soured yet or not yet? During the sprinkling of the biological weapon, yeah, that's already soured. That's after Pearl Harbor. And they sent through little Raiders to Japan. And then they and then the Japanese were upset about the Chinese people rescuing the US pilot.

35:52 And so then that's why they had a revenge attack on Zhejiang and. When did and when did it? What year did our Did American and Japanese relationships deteriorate to the point of hostility? 1941 officially, but if you think about it, FDR was supplying China like some weapons to fight the war in Japan as well. I mean against Japan as well China. And when was that? When was China and Japan fight? When were China and Japan fighting? Well Japan occupied China in like 1931, but officially they started fighting in 1937 when Japan wanted more of the Chinese land.

36:34 So we so we flip-flopped American flopped our relationship. Yes. Another another thing that rhymes with current events I guess, right? Yeah, exactly. And it's so interesting because talk about spreading democracy. The family that got America to really flip flop on their Asia policy was the Song family. And the Song family, the Grandpa Charlie song, made money selling Bibles in America. And, you know, Pearl bucks China, like, good Earth movie. Yeah. So then they had this like idea that there were a ton of Chinese people in China waiting to become Christian. And so Charlie it sounds so loud, far fetched. And so then Charlie song make money selling Bibles and song the and then there were three sisters song mailing song Eiling and song chain Ling and song mailing and up getting like USDA cotton contract and also like they're trying land lease supply money.

37:46 And the Som family really lobbied FDR into kind of helping out China. By helping to spread Christian values, Yes. And how did the Chinese take that? Chinese at the time actually. This is like a very unpopular opinion and Chinese people call the Som family like making money out of disaster because they're trying. And Chiang Kai Shek, who was married to one of the Song sister, was the ultimately the World War 2 leader of China, but he was just a fancier like warlord than other warlords. And at this time, China was not really what you think about China today.

38:33 It was very like fractured as a country. And so there's all kinds of different warlords fighting for all kinds of different part of China because China is such a big country. And so, yeah. And so a lot of the. We're talking about the the spread of Christianity, the attempting attempted spread of Christianity. Yes, attempted to spread Christianity. And is there a religion there? Has there been religion historically in China that that people had adhere to or? Confusion Buddhism, right? And yeah. Gotcha.

39:15 And remind me if you know. I don't know if you know because I don't know. I asked a friend of mine who's from who's from Mumbai the difference between Hinduism and Buddhism, which one was Buddha. Buddhism was was later in Hinduism. Vice versa, I don't remember, but I think that Buddhism actually did come from India because Monkey King, my favorite classic. Yeah. Monkey King was going to the West to get the wisdom from Buddha right, and I think that he must have been going to India. Amazing, amazing, amazing. And so China World War 2 is not what China is today. It's not really a threat as far as we know. In fact, it was an ally to America as of as of 1941, you said?

40:10 Or 39. 1937. 37 We became we became allies, and then we were allies until post until post World War 2 where Japan was no longer really considered a threat to anyone. And at what point did China start rebuilding and when did they kick that opioid problem? They kicked the drug problem. Yeah, I think that the drug problem was solved post 1949, post Mao, But yeah, but and also, when you're at a war, when you're at a Total War and you're starving, I don't think you're you're going to be thinking about opium too much.

40:53 You may not, you may not want to think about it, but if you're, if, if, if you have a dependency on it, you know, I, I think that there's a lot of people that, you know, have very limited funds and, and, and are, you know, addicted or dependent that, that unfortunately might, you know, lose set of their priorities or the right way to spend their money. That's, you know, at different points. So I, I mean, I could imagine that even in wartime, it's, you know, if you're really an addict, you really have a dependent, a chemical dependency on it, then you're probably not making the right decisions anyway, you know? Yeah, actually in, in fact, I think at one point the opium problem was so bad, in fact I visited like a comfort woman. I don't know if you know what comfort women. No. Comfort women were like sex slaves in World War 2. So and a lot of people think about comfort women as like Korean comfort women, but they were doing it like everywhere that Japan occupied.

41:45 And so I was visiting one of the comfort women in Shanxi in China. And her father was addicted to opium during the war. And, and it was actually a really sad story. Let me digress to that story, please her. So she was kept in like a camp where she was forced to serve and purely Japanese soldiers. And so she was raped like 1015 times a day. And by the time war ended, she was pregnant and but with a very like traditional Chinese village, she didn't want to let anyone know. So her she kind of kept away from the public eye for a while, like she didn't go to the street and whatnot. And then after a while she gave birth and then she was then her mom and her buried the child and buried the baby in The Cave after the war.

42:51 And she hasn't thought about it since until like, I was asking her, oh, what happened to you? And she was so old And I was interviewing her that she just came out with that story. And yeah, it's. Crazy, crazy, crazy. So that was so and these comfort, what do you call comfort? Comfort Women. Comfort women. They were. They were. They were Japanese. No, they're Chinese. Well, actually they were Japanese comfort women too. They were in the beginning, they were like Japanese women who only served the generals and like, and later on in the war too, like you can see that the generals and the higher tier of Japanese soldiers had like Japanese or Korean woman. And then wherever they occupy, those are like, that's like for the bottom tier of the Japanese soldiers. Wow, Yeah, we don't, you know, it's, it's also something interesting.

43:48 And I guess it's because it's really, really so unpleasant and so terrible to think about. But we don't think about the, the sexual violence that that, that, that, that war often. And we don't talk nearly about enough about or learn nearly enough about it, about the sexual violence that war creates, you know, because I, I mean, we had that with the Ukrainians, the Germans, the Russians. We had, I mean, I mean, everyone. And war just brings out this animal, you know? And you, I mean, I could never understand. I hope to never understand, you know, but. Also, at this point, Japan was trained to believe that they're better than all of their Asian neighbors. Yeah. So I think that's also a big part of what happened. Well, there's a big, I think that's psychologically. And I mean, we need this.

44:34 People need people, people that want other people to go to war need for this to happen. We need to dehumanize and create an us and them mentality because it it it allows us to cognitively distance ourselves from our actions and make justifications and say, you know, I would never do this to another person, but that's not a person, that's an animal, you know, like I would never do that to another. Person. You know, and, and, and the more that and, and at a certain point, you know, I imagine that we even like need that justification, like we need an excuse to keep doing what we're doing because we couldn't live with ourselves otherwise, you know, and, and so, you know, to have the to and to say we are supreme.

45:16 We are better than they are. We are, you know, you know. Actually like Teddy Roosevelt's justification to colonize Philippines too. So I don't know if you know too much about the American colonization of Philippines. Nothing about it so. And so and because it was such an unpopular thing to go colonize another country. What Teddy Roosevelt ended up doing is to get a bunch of Filipinos and had a world Expo in 19 O 5 in Saint Louis and, and to display their like uncivil that they're uncivil.

45:57 He he shaved a bunch of their teeth and then put dogs in there and then said that oh, the Filipinos are dog eaters and blah blah blah. Way. That's what the. Yeah, and this is the 19 O five World Expo. And so then that's justified why they needed to expand their empire to the Philippines. And it's interesting because I like during World War 2, right after Pearl Harbor, in like within 8 hours they were attacking Philippines and whatnot. And at first the Filipinos were like welcoming the Japanese. They're like, Oh my God, what can be worse than the Americans? And and then they witnessed the Japanese like brutally like raping their woman and also killing their their children.

46:42 And so that they were like, OK, actually the Japanese can be worse than Americans. So then they joined Americans in fighting the Japanese. They did. Yes. So it was like to pick a lesser evil. And and I guess the Philippines, I guess America's interest in the Philippines would be that geographically it's. In the Pacific. It's in the Pacific. It's all the way to the West. Would you call it the West? Face it. Oh, are you looking at a map right now? I'm looking at a globe, yeah, but the globes are circular and they're throwing me off. Well, they're.

47:24 Interested in the Philippines because then they can trade with China and also that's why they were also interested in Hawaii as well because the Pacific. Well, that's that's what I just recently figured out. And I'm like, Oh my God, this makes so much sense. And the fact that Hawaii is the one that got bombed, I was like, and it's funny because growing up I was like, why would anyone attack Hawaii? And I'm like, oh, because it's the closest point that you can get to to America from. And I only realized it's like a month ago. So yes, yeah. So that was So what was Hawaii? Do you know where Hawaii was before America had it? They were Hawaii. They had a queen, they had a king. And before, yeah, before they has a lot of contact with seven.

48:07 Like in 1778 I think some sailors discovered Hawaii and. Find it even I said it's where would anyone, how would anyone end up in Hawaii? It's in the middle of nowhere. There's no, there's no land around it. I think it was during the Ice Age they in Hawaii. I guess so. I guess so anyway, yes, I'm sorry to continue your so so America. So so the so Americans came to colonize the Philippines. The Philippines are like, oh, wait, let's let's work with the Japanese. And they realized that the Japanese were worse than the Americans at this point. And so they ended up joining the Americans fighting back the Japanese. And did they fight them off?

48:51 So MacArthur kind of left the Philippines to fight by themselves. You know, the favorite, the, the very famous speech I shall return. And like all these guerrilla fighters had to rise up to the occasion and they were fighting for like 3 years without any weapons and really any supply and any backup from anyone. And yeah. And then MacArthur returned in like, in like the late 1940s. And then there was the Manila massacre, because MacArthur did not plan that the Japanese was going to fight until the last man.

49:32 Yeah. And like, it's so interesting because in movies, right, you think, you know, the battlefields, like in the middle of nowhere. And then you have like all these officers and they're like really nice uniform. But like the Manila and the Nanking incident, right? The two Asian countries. I mean, two Asian cities and they were like fighting in like in the cities and like, you know, where someone's convenience store was, where the gas station was and just had a total destruction. And so I think a lot of times when people are like trying to sell a war, they're not trying to sell the humanity or like who is going to get affected by the war or like where the money is going. Well, you can't because if you did, they know no one would participate in it. Tell them if you told them, are we going to war? You know, they got some valuable land that's worth a lot of money.

50:22 Be like, well, I want to tell my kids to die because you want more money. I'm sorry. I'm not interested in that, you know. You saw this like meme on the Internet that's been like circulating lately. It's like America, census geologist, and it's all like the military. No, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it, but I believe it. I saw the meme of the of the Israeli, Israeli, Palestinian conflict with two missiles and it's one of them is labeled our tax dollars. Another one is also somehow also our tax dollars. Yes. And they're both crashing into one another. And you just take, copy and paste that everywhere around the world. And that's what and that's what you get. And here. Like our country, the roads are not so great and our education is not doing so great and like a homeless problem, is off the hook.

51:09 In America. Yeah, don't you think? I think that we have 10 to 15 massive countrywide issues that need to be seriously looked at and at least partially responded to before we continue minding anyone else's business, is what I think. Exactly, Yeah. I think that, and by the way, if we can rally and go ahead and do, but you know what, I, I also think that sometimes you get, especially when you're successful and powerful, you get complacent and you need to get knocked on your butt back in order to be able to learn sometimes. And unfortunately, if you're not going to learn from people talking about it and complaining about it and yelling about it and screaming about it, then you have to learn from experience.

51:50 You know, I mean, it's the same thing with growing up, you know, like someone tells you, Hey, there's a real, you know, it's probably a good idea to do this and this and this in school or this and this and this internship and you're like, no, I know better than you. And you're like, Oh, man, maybe I don't, you know, but like, you learn one way or the other, and it's just better to learn the easy way. But if we have to learn the hard way, then it looks like that's what it might have to be, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, and I don't know what I'm going to do for my kids. I don't know where else they're going to go, you know? But I, you know, it's, it's it's it's scary. It's crazy. It is scary. It is crazy. And like politicians are OK with like starting wars. I'm being, I'll be OK if the politicians themselves are going to be like going out there and fighting themselves.

52:34 But like, you know, when it ends up being like, you know, maybe potentially your kids fighting a war, right? And then like, and then it's just like all the sacrifice for the military industrial complex. And yeah, that's yeah, it's, it's just what it is. But and but. That's, but that's why we have these conversations. I think that's really valuable. And I think that, and I think that not only is it valuable, I think that more and more people are waking up to because I think that at a certain point you could, you could only gaslight so much, you know, one way or the other, you know, and we've been really living since World War 2IN times of gaslighting, you know, just constant.

53:21 And, and I think that might be a consequence of the arrogance that is that is off. It's a product of success. You know, like you become success. If you think about it, America has not won the war in 80. Years World War 2. And World War 2. I have a theory that they won because China was holding the Japanese off for for like 10 years before America was holding was getting into the war. OK, so we want to tell me about that. We want to we want to dive into that history a little bit. Yeah. So Japan was occupying like Manchuria and then they were continued to fight in China. And in a sense, and when US sent China to supplies to fight Japan, it's because US saw Japan's ambition and knew that it was about to come to their come to their territory. And so then that's why they were like, OK, let's, let's supply China.

54:22 And what's interesting is that if they weren't really and by 1941, right, the Prince Konoway was trying to negotiate peace with the US and I but I think US who's. Prince Conway, from which country? From Japan and he was actually not like Prime Minister just once but like 3 times because the military saw him as like a spare tire to like drive them off the Cliff. And so that every single time he would like resign, then they would like come and bring him up. And then like, if he doesn't do what the military like fraction of the government wants him to do, then they threaten to kill him. So then he gets back to the to the to the wheel, I mean, to the truck.

55:13 And then, yeah, he just had to. And right after the war, he committed suicide. And so before that, he wrote a memoir about how he was trying to negotiate out of having a having to attack US. And but he was ultimately unsuccessful because he was not as strong as the warthogs like Tojo. And I feel like when I was reading that, I was thinking, like, wow, this could be what's happening in Washington right now. Like these neocons and whatever are like driving other people out of like negotiations. So I, I mean, we def, I mean, as far as I believe there's been really, really good reporting about that happening with the Russia Ukraine war that every time it comes close to an end that some that some people come in and sabotage the peace efforts that are interested in continuing the war. But I think that I think that a hopeful component potentially is that, and I think this was a little bit of the, you know, you call them the, you know, the neocons or the military industrial complex as a political personifications. They because they're so unlikable and because they're such liars and because they've done such unpopular things their entire lives, the youth is not interested in them and they were never interested in giving up power. So they don't really have too many successors themselves. And I think that they're like the, the the neo con. And that's what we're seeing

56:44 right now. I think in the American Republic, right, right right wing, you know, fractioning that's going on is that right now there's a huge vacuum because a lot of the people that were really heavily in, you know, that were huge influences in the last 2025 years are now getting older and becoming less relevant. And the youth does not, you know, at all relate to anything that they're talking about. But they don't have any young successors because they were too arrogant for those 2025 years to keep people, you know, to keep demote someone else. So I'm hoping I mean, and again, I'm an I'm an optimist and I'm because of that. I'm, I'm often wrong, you know, I'm often incorrect, but you know, that's OK because I think that. But what about the military?

57:28 I mean profit. Think about how every successful company is like Bel Air was about to go bankrupt until we fought another war. So. Yeah, yeah. And that's the problem with this kind of government supported capitalism. I mean, and you don't even have to look at it from a military industrial camp, look at it from a freaking airplane, airliner, you know, perspective. Like there are certain airlines that have been bailed out, you know, time and time again that have no business still being in business, you know, and as far as the free market goes, it makes no sense that they're still around or banks that governments bail out or, you know, whatever, whatever it is like it true capitalism wouldn't allow those people to even survive.

58:09 And then a better product would replace it or a more thoughtful product or whatever. But, and I mean, this is coming to the point of just absolute, you know, I'm just, I'm just hypothesizing and just talking over here. But I mean, when robotics and AI get to this to get to the point, and I'm sure you're probably have more of your finger on the pulse of this in San Francisco than I do in Florida. But when robotics and, and, and AI come together, labor and resources are going to be, are going to become significantly cheaper to the extent that I don't know what money is going to mean in 50 years from now. Like, I don't know what you know, and Elon Musk talks about it a little bit, but like, I mean, think about it. If you got to test the robot that cost $20,000 that had that that that has, you know, Grok incorporated into it and is your housekeeper and cooks meals and goes to the supermarket and your, you know, in your car.

59:03 So. He can stop barking while I'm doing podcasts. And that and that's, you know, by the way, but it'll probably leave you to take care of your dog because that's something you want to do for the most part, you know, and you kind of pick and choose the things in life that you want to do. But I think that the only thing that's going to save America from total financial ruin is the potential explosion of, of, of, you know, of robotics and, and software. And if not, then I think we're just in big trouble. I think that's really what it is. Yeah, I. Don't know, but tell me about the quantum army. The quantum army, because we are digressing and it's fun, but I want to, I want to get into more into this. Yeah. So the quantum Army was the force that that planted a false flag on in Manchuria on September 18th and accused Chinese people of doing that.

59:56 And so then they had the right to start a war. Like what we did with Vietnam? And it's actually interesting in Vietnam because and Ho Chi Minh was actually I, I saw some notes of Ho Chi Minh asking America for help during World War 2, but America decided to help the French and to column to recolonize them. But anyway, I digress. And so Quantum Army was really the beginning of World War 2 for China because they had taken over Manchuria. China had taken back over. No, I mean no. Sorry, just been taking Manchuria for China and now China's getting involved. So now and OK, gotcha.

1:00:37 And what this and what was this? Army was actually a Japanese force that had taken over Manchuria, the Chinese territory. Yes. Did I not say that or did I say that wrong? I don't know. Anyway, it's like but. Thank you for clarifying because I'm sure I may have. So OK. And what was and so the point of the army was a false flag. Army was to was to create false flag was to create the false flag as an excuse to start to start. Invasion attack. Yes, OK, gotcha. And now what about what are some other war crimes that you that you've documented or, you know, uncovered? So many cannibalism is 1.

1:01:17 They got to the point that they were just like eating other people. Yeah, actually, we're doing this podcast twice a month with James Bradley, and he wrote this book, this book named Fly Boys, and it's a story about how George Bush was flying into Chichi Jima and with like 9 other airmen and then eight other airmen, 8 other airmen were captured and eaten by the Japanese. And George Bush somehow narrowly escaped with like, a submarine that rescued him, and then he was out of there. But had he actually been eaten by the Japanese, history would have been so different.

1:01:58 Whoa, was was this cannibalism out of necessity was where the Japanese star was? A part of also their culture of Bushido to eat a part of your enemy so then you can like gain their energy. OK. And so then they BBQ their liver and, and this, this story was so interesting because in like the 19, well, in, in 1990s, I think Iris Chan, the late Iris Chan wrote the rape of Nanking. And then someone called her about, Oh, I was in this war crime, secret war crime trial and, and, and Iris was like, this sounds way too crazy. Oh, James, why don't you go call him? So James and, and then went and visited the sky and then he like he was, he even brought George Bush to Chichi Jima to see if this was a real thing that had happened. And then it's been confirmed.

1:03:04 And then he wrote the book and then HBO bought it as a part of the series on the Pacific. And so it's, it is a very fascinating and yet true story that they were doing this kind of cannibalism. And then there were also the issues of forced labor, because when Japan had taken over the Philippines, then they were having these people. But do baton death March and and it's. Great that that happens everywhere. Yeah, you know, it. It just feels like it was normal, like practice, like, you know, it's. Just normal, standard everyday thing when you're fighting a war. You never know if someone's going to walk into town and make you do forced labor in death marches, you know, I mean, you never know.

1:03:47 It just might. It just might happen, you know? It's yeah. OK, and and it's interesting because because Japan never ratified the Geneva Convention. So when they were shipping these PO WS, they never really marked the ship. And so then the like the Allied forces didn't know what was happening with these ships and a lot of them were struck by friendly fire. So for example, like the Lisbon Maru that I recently watched a movie on, it was struck by by friendly fire. And, well, you know, the fire is not too friendly if it's going to kill you. Yeah.

1:04:30 Not too friendly. And the Japanese were then, you know, barring people from escaping the deck and like, and so then people just all died in well, and then also when two people were trying to escape, they had like 6 suicide officers that stayed in the ship and like tried to gun down everyone while going down with the ship. These were like fanatic times that these people were fighting this war. And what was the so interesting? What was the rationale for this war? Like World War, like Europe, I guess had a rationale for a war. What was the rationale leading up to all this Was just, this was just Asian politics and Asian, you know, just war, history of war, the habit of resources. So it's about resource, but coincided just happens to be the same time as World War 2.

1:05:30 I think it has to do with economic issue because also at the time, like like when after Quantum Army had taken over Manchuria, they were having propaganda that said that, OK, there are 100 million Japanese. It's actually not true. I think it's more like 80 million Japanese. And we are running out of space in our Japanese mainland. So we need to expand. And so then they were having these policies for these Japanese settlers to go to China and take over these Chinese people's farmers land and kick them out of their Chinese and take kick them out of their own farmland. So I think that's interesting that and I think it was mostly economics because by the time that they had attacked Pearl Harbor, it was because Roosevelt was going to embargo on oil. And so then they needed Southeast Asia for oil and rubber.

1:06:25 And so a lot of it had to do with economics. Right, but the economic issues happened to occur at the same time as World War 2 was just happening in the rest of the world. I think it was boiling up because remember what I was saying? Like from 19? Oh. Five. Yeah, the early. 90s, yeah. And then they see that, you know, it was and that the rest of Europe was busy fighting a war and Europeans had power, I mean, had colonies also in Southeast Asia. So I think part of it is also opportunist. Right, right, right. And what was everyone?

1:07:05 That's a great point. Like you just see that everything is on fire and while I was distracted, you just take advantage. Right. While your town is on fire, you might as well go and steal your neighbor's TV. A little too a little too, too true for San Francisco, I feel like. I know. So how? Are you on social media that like, you know, while there's like a riot, then there's like, they're like running into the liquor store to steal things out of a liquor store in Oakland? It's like crazy. Yeah, yeah. How long are you living in San Francisco for? Since I was 10 actually, but I went. To like your whole high school. Yeah, almost. Yeah, 2/3 of my life. I think it needs change.

1:07:51 It needs some change, yeah. How long have you been in Florida for? I've been in Florida for four years. I've been I'm from New York originally. So I spent the 1st 20 years of my life in New York, 18 years of my life in New York. I spent a year and a half in Israel studying there Jewish and I spent some time there and then I, I spent some time in Seattle, I mentioned. And then and then I came and then I ended up there was no Jewish girls there or very few Jewish girls there for me. So I moved back to, to New York for a little bit till I met my wife and we moved down to Florida from here. But the, you know, I mean, we'll see what happens. As far as you know, we're not married to Florida. We're married to one another.

1:08:37 So it's funny. So I mean, we can go anywhere, but we like you here, I've been seeing. These memes of like Florida, people saying like, oh, we're, we're too full for New Yorkers. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know what? Unfortunately, I kind of get caught up in that because I am one of the New Yorkers coming down, but I happen to be one of the nice New Yorkers, so they don't have a problem with me, as far as I know. But you never know what was. You never know. But you know what? Because it's so funny. But people, there's something so powerful about the magic of San Francisco that like, people really are not willing to give up on it. Like, no matter what, you know, like, no matter what it feels like, you know, like it's crazy What, it's crazy what it's turned into the last couple of years. And people, people still love it there. And people still like, they're not going as far as I know, are they?

1:09:30 That's a very controversial topic, I feel like. Is it? We're here, we are talking about war crime, but I'm like, Oh my gosh, people are not giving up on my in laws. Would never give up on San Francisco. I feel like they're like, oh, it's just like that in the 70s and they would turn around and blah, blah, blah. So yeah. I had, what do you call it? I'd only, and I'd only recently discovered I did an episode. You know, I was also thinking because I'm a big Grateful Dead hippie fan and, and I was, and I and I read a book that had tied and I didn't even realize that this was, and this actually, this actually what got me interested in geography to begin with. It tied in Asian culture to San Francisco and that it was that, you know, and, and the first there was the school of Chinese culture. I think maybe I forgot the art school of Chinese culture. Yeah, it's, I think Islam.

1:10:28 Wow. But it's also very interesting because the 1882 had a lot of to do with San Francisco as well, because Chinese people were mining gold at a faster rate than the white people. Better workers as far as you. Know and Lincoln was like desperate to build this rail world to to go to the West to the Pacific so then he can go trade with China so it's and Marco Polo in like the 1200 was talking about how Chinese people have paper currency now and we need to get there and blah blah blah so. Wow, exactly for a while. Yeah, and but China unfortunately just faced the century of humiliation with with drug addiction. Yeah.

1:11:16 And but now we're seeing really a resurgence of China in the 21st century. And there are really a people of to like mind their own business, I think. And just they were just doing their country first before getting intervene, I mean, before intervening with like all over the world and spreading democracy and whatnot. Yeah. And and like we mentioned, I think while we were talking about on our introduction introductory call, you know, the Chinese are doing enormous amount of the business and investment around the world that America used was doing for a long time. And again, part of the way that we America spread their empire was financial. And I'm actually hopefully doing an episode soon about China's relationship with Africa nowadays and you know, and what's and their investment there and what they have to what they stand to gain out of it and whether America's involved at all there.

1:12:12 If we're trying to be even. I don't, I don't know anything about it. I. Don't know if you watched this like one video of like Kamala was trying to go into this African stadium and he started trying to bashing and then they were and then the host was like this stadium is built by Chinese money and blah blah blah and ask her to leave if she doesn't want to stay. Wow, I didn't. I did not see that. But yeah, I think, wow, Western media really does bar people from like, getting the real information out there in this world. Yeah, yeah, we're very. Eurocentric. We're not, we're not even Eurocentric. We're American centric.

1:12:53 I, I mean, I cannot tell you how little most people and I teach high school and I've got, I'm the oldest of 6 and I'm 30, right. So, I mean, I've got to quit. You know, I've got a little bit of my finger on the pulse of the younger generation. They don't know anything about Europe. They, they, they barely know anything about America. They really do. They, you know, that the, I think that one thing that China has done more successfully than America, at least in the last several dozen decades, is that Americans don't value education or teachers at all. And I've heard that China does more or a lot more. And, and we don't have, we don't, you know, I mean, we look at it, if you say, if you tell someone I'm a high school teacher, they're like, that sucks. You know, like that's, that's usually what the response is. They don't say, wow, you're forging the next generation. And, and you know, in the youth of tomorrow that that, that, that are going to be in the workforce and the scientists and the engineers and, and the next scientists and sorry, and the next teachers and politicians, like you're the person shaping them and like, and we just need to care about that. I mean it, it, it's wild to me, you know, and. It is wild.

1:14:00 There's a Jewish author from from the 8th, from the 19th century Germany that said that said that to him, all the world's problems comes down to issue with education. You know, like education can fix everything. If you just give people the right context and and and everyone can learn to speak one another's language, then a lot of our issues would just fall apart right away. Exactly, and I really appreciate your podcast because I think it really educate the general public and to share, you know, things as we're learning together. And I think I discovered your episode when you were interviewing the UN one of. The John Perkins, yes, he, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That economic hitman.

1:14:46 Yeah. That, that was interesting because that's also very similar to like Prince Konoway for like negotiation with like Pearl Harbor and whatnot. He did. He did a few episodes, a few other big podcasts that were much longer than mine. I hope to do another one with him. But he did a couple of like 3 hour ones with Danny Jones and Patrick Bet David and oh he's. Like a Joe Rogan. The the which one? John Perkins is like a Joe Rogan. If he was, I'd have a lot more viewers than now. But if he also was, he wouldn't have gone back to me. So, you know, but can I, can I actually ask real quickly, because I don't really know anything about this. What was China's, you mentioned this earlier in passing, but China's relationship or I guess the East relationship with Russia during, during all this or the USSR, do they have any relationship with it?

1:15:42 You know, I with a, with a conflicting with one another. What were things like there? Well, Russia had gone into like if you look, if you go to Harbin, there's like a big Jewish and Russia or Soviet, I mean Russia influence because right after the revolution, a lot of the people who were escaping the revolution and up in Harbin. Where's that? That was in Manchuria. Gotcha. So like that area. And so I feel like Chinese people mostly mind their own business. Yeah.

1:16:27 Yeah. And it's mostly economically, it's mostly economic interest. For example, Russia have built that real world just for trade purpose and whatnot. So yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm finding. I mean, I'm finding that most people just want to mind their own business and, you know, try to like be with their families and try to just be happy, you know, be comfortable, you know, have what they need and have what they have and, and to just live a good, meaningful life. You know, I think that's what really like, I think that listen, you go to Wisconsin, you go to Iowa and you go to, I mean, even if you go upstate New York, I mean you go, if you go a couple, you know, you go 203040 miles north of you.

1:17:07 I'm sure that most of the people there are just regular people that just want to live their lives. You know, they and like, you know, maybe they have political opinions, maybe they don't care about politics, maybe they don't care, you know, maybe they're interested in war or not. But like, at the end of the day, like, what's right in front of you is right in front of you. And the most pressing part of your. They have money in their Vanguard account. They're interested in war because that's going to mean that their stocks going to go up. Yeah, yeah. That that's the other thing that China, that that China does better. Who was I talking to about this? I think that we put so much pressure on ourselves to act so short term, you know, our quarterly earnings and what's our stocks you're at right now and you know and it dipped. What's the next election going to look like?

1:17:49 Four years, right? Yeah, by the way, you get in and then it takes a year for the president to figure out what's going on. And then he tries to do something and then at that point it's the midterms. And after that he has to either go out for re election or he's already out the door and like nothing get done. You know, I mean, it's really, and on one hand it's in one hand, it's a beautiful thing because it really does prevent from both the right and the left a lot of more damage that I think could have been done by because what I think that. A lot of presidents are working for the people who are not even elected. That's right. That's right. For example, in the World War 2 context, the China lobby, right? They were making money out of USDA contracts and they were lobbying FDR and most people didn't even know that they existed.

1:18:35 Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. I wonder how much of that still goes on that we just, you know, that just swept under the rug or kept hush hush, you know. But the problem is that it's everywhere. I mean, everywhere. You freaking Anything that has a regulation, anything that has any kind of formal representation has corruption, period. You know. And so like, at a certain point, the question isn't like looking for something that isn't corrupt. The question just is who are the honest people that I could deal with, you know, and that's really the question. Yeah. Because you're never going to get rid of corruption. And I mean, as much as you would like to, you can spend your life fighting corruption, which you'll just do to the day you die. And then the day you die, someone else would have to pick up and do it also because it's never gonna end. But yeah, it's, it's fascinating. On that note, I'm going to cook dinner, OK? Thank you so much for doing this. This is such a pleasure.

1:19:31 This was a lot of information and a lot of really great information, and you want to tell people again just where to find your organization and how they could follow you. Yeah, pacificatrocities.org. And if you are on YouTube, please hit subscribe for Pacific Front Untold. Pacific Front and Toad Toad. No untold. Untold gotcha, yes. OK. Gotcha. Beautiful. Jenny, this is so much fun. Thanks so much. Have a wonderful night. Take care. Bye bye.