Psychology Series 6: Alyssa Levy

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Welcome to another episode of a
come together.

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We're back.
Just kidding.

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We're not going to actually go
to garage.

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I'm panicked.
OK.

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OK.
So sorry.

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Yeah.
So Vermont summer camp.

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Your parents said you at summer
camp.

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You like growing up in Vermont?
We're going to ish.

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You did not like growing up for
a month?

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I was it boring?
Is it too boring for you?

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Yeah, I see.
At the time, there was a lot of

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goodness there, you know,
raising your kids in a place

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that is exceptionally safe.
It's cool.

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You know, but I was lucky, I
think, to have had parents that

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were career oriented and driven
people, which was not the norm,

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let's say of everyone around me.
So I went to high school with a

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lot of people that did not feel
the same way as I did about

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further education and finding a
career.

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What do people that typically
do?

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Was it like blue collar kind of
stuff or is it?

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Some, some, but I just don't
think that there was as much

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importance of going to four year
university Graduate School after

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that.
People are just comfortable

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either getting jobs or going to
getting associates from

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community.
College, it was very, it was

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very not driven, I would say.
And that's just not how I was

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raised.
So I felt like I stood out a

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little bit.
I felt like I, I wasn't fitting

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in.
And so yeah, it was fine.

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It was fine.
And when I go visit, I love to,

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you know, be in my house and see
my parents and spend time with

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them.
But.

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How often do you go back?
Maybe twice a year, couple times

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a year.
Guy, you like to go?

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Sorry.
I do, man.

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I actually, you know, I've, I've
never been to, to Vermont up

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until I met Alyssa.
In fact, I couldn't point it in

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the map.
I've been there with Alyssa and

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I loved it.
I mean, look, every place has

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things to offer, things that you
are going to like more, going to

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like less, right?
So it's way different from

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Florida just because you have
all the open space.

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It's definitely more small town
vibes.

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Everybody knows everybody, the
nature.

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There is totally different for
sure.

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They're rolling, they're rolling
mountains.

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And yeah.
There's so much open greenery

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and just fields of green and and
and mountains and you get the

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seasons and I mean it, it snows
and it's beautiful.

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So you got all the winter type
of sports which are awesome.

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So it has a lot to offer on that
asset.

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You do winter sports.
I did, I did and my life took a

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different direction and I was
horseback riding.

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Actually, get out of here.
Really.

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Yeah, that's a cool sport.
So when I so I did a lot of

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different sports and then I just
was.

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How'd you find horseback riding?
I I actually started riding when

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I was 3 and I've just riding
horses my whole life.

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There's a lot of that here in
Florida too, right?

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Yeah.
Do you ride a lot here?

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I don't ride anymore, but I do
have my horse here.

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I have the horse.
OK, I want you to elaborate on

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that because I don't know what
that means, but it sounds so

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cool.
So I I grew up riding, I had

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horses my whole life.
A horse is expensive.

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Very, very, very, very, very
expensive.

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So I started riding when I was
little, always rode when I was,

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I think I was maybe 8, I started
competing.

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Cool what goes into a
competition.

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Everything.
Like form jumping stunts, stuff

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like that.
Yeah, yeah, there's different,

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there's different styles of
riding.

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What I was doing was jumping,
but there's different that you

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even within jumping there's
there's different things that

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you could be judged on.
There's timed events.

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There's a lot of variety, OK,
Also the different height of the

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jumps.
So there's just a lot of

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different things.
And so I competed always and

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then I sustained a pretty
serious injury.

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I could what was it back?
Yeah.

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I could imagine right?
That happened a lot.

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I mean, I think some people get
lucky, but I was a little bit

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reckless and a little bit of a
daredevil, and so I sustained a

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pretty bad injury and never let
it heal.

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And then in college, I was right
professionally and that kind of

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continued to evolve and.
Where'd you go to?

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You went to where?
You went to Baltimore.

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Where'd you go to college?
Towson University.

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Cool.
Yeah.

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And they have a horse.
They have they have a riding

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team.
No, I didn't ride for the

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school.
OK.

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I kept my horse at a local barn
and I rode for them.

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Wow, cool.
Which was cool, and then I moved

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down here after school.
And why'd you move here?

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Grad school.
Grad school?

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Yeah.
You want to go to grad school?

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Yeah, yeah.
How different was it here than

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than Baltimore and.
Very different.

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Very different.
Huge culture shock I feel.

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Like, yes.
And it was culture shock getting

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to Baltimore, another culture
shock coming down here, Totally

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different culture shocks.
So, yeah, but I really loved it

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down here.
I have family down here also.

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OK.
And then when I got here, my

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back pain got a little bit more
out of control and so I stopped

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driving and I had to have
multiple procedures on my back.

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Those are the worst.
Yeah, and I have pretty

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significant nerve damage in my
back and a lot soft tissue

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damage.
So I was out of Commission for a

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long time.
I was on bed rest for six

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months.
Wow.

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And how?
Old are you?

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I started when I was 2223.
And that's when you're on bed

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rest.
Yeah, it's a long time.

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Six months is a long time.
Yeah.

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What do you do for six months?
You know, in bed rest?

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I at the time.
Invisible.

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Yes, yes, I was miserable.
Watched a lot of New Girl.

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I watched a lot of random shows.
What did you watch?

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What did you watch?
It's here.

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A New Girl.
What else?

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I watched New Girl.
Says a lot of who you are, by

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the way.
Yeah, that's yeah.

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At one point I watched a show
that I don't even remember

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because at the time I had to be
on some meds and my father was

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staying with me.
It was Pretty Little Liars.

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Oh, nice.
That's that Kevin de Graw.

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He.
Does.

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I couldn't tell you.
I don't remember any of it

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really.
So my father essentially had to

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watch Pretty Little Liars.
I knew him.

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You would know that.
He's not the type.

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To watch what did, what did your
parents as chiropractors tell

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you while you're going through
this?

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And were they not, were they
telling you not to do this, but

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like it was up to you anyway and
so they just let you do what

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you're going to do or.
I think that, I mean, I, I'm a

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competitive person.
I come from competitive people

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and.
So they want to be competing.

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I mean, I think that that they
listened to me and I said I'm

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fine and I downplayed it.
I also didn't know at the time

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what the damage looked like and
I think if I had known what it

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looked like I probably would
have stopped.

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But also there wasn't
regenerative type medicine.

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Right.
When I had this injury, right?

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Are you doing that now?
So when I started having the

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procedures, that's that's what I
ended up doing was regenerative

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procedures.
Gotcha.

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So like electroshock?
No, I did PRP.

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Nice.
Yeah, I just, I just heard about

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that.
It's a podcast actually with the

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doctor that does that in Coral
Gables.

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Yeah, yeah, he was telling me
how that works.

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Yeah, it's really cool.
So I had a very complex injury

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right next to my spine.
And the pain, the cause of the

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pain was inflammation.
That's what PRP would have

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helped with.
Yes, and also instability.

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I mean I had a six inch muscle
tear along my spine.

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Yeah.
How does?

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And I I sure.
Does that does that happen at

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one go or does that happen like
a little tear and then like it

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gets worse and worse as time
goes?

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To be told, I don't know because
I didn't do imaging on it for 10

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years.
So I don't know, right.

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But I I know when it happened
definitely.

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We did an image.
You did.

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You did.
AI had an MRIMRI done it.

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I had multiple Mris I had I did
that's crazy ultrasound also you

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could see the the tear, but I
also had three of my ribs pop

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out of my back and that's what
tore the muscle was.

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And you were walking around with
popped out ribs and you didn't.

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Know Yeah.
So that's where my parents came

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in as they would reset the ribs
and push them back in and I

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could take a deep breath and
push them back out.

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Wow.
Because I shredded the joint

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capsules so.
This is legit, yeah.

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Yeah.
Wow, that's how?

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So that's from 23?
How?

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How long were you?
I mean, I'm pretty sure you

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can't be active at all for.
Yeah, so I was, I was really out

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of Commission for a while once I
started having the procedures

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because PRP increases the
inflammation to aid in the

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healing.
Right.

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So it gets worse before better.
Right.

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But it also, it was, it was a
journey.

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It was a journey.
I want to hear about the

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journey.
Yeah.

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OK.
I ended up having, I had one

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doctor that did not do a great
job, OK, and from one of the

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procedures that he did, I did
not see this going in this

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direction.
I think about this from this

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procedure I ended up getting a
really bad staph infection.

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How does that happen?
I don't know.

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You don't know.
It's just another debilitating

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thing.
Does this guy ever adjust to?

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Does he?
Does he help?

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Yeah, who you just.
That's who you're here for, huh?

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Yeah.
That's what.

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We're here for so the irony of
my life.

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Not just good looks.
Yeah, that just.

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Surprised as I am.
The irony of my life is that

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both of my parents are
chiropractors.

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My brother is also a
chiropractor away not my husband

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is a chiropractor.
That's crazy.

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And I have back issues.
And you have back issues.

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You have back issues.
So you haven't you?

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You haven't ridden really since.
Not really.

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So you go visit your horse.
Yeah, I go pretty often.

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Is guy ride?
No.

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Not allowed on him, no one's
allowed on.

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Really.
Yeah.

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Well, he's he's not your typical
horse.

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He's a he's a ex competition
jumping horse.

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Yeah, he's a sport horse, so
he's very powerful and very big.

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But is he?
Is he a very opinionated?

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He's like trying to drive like a
like a retired Formula One car.

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You don't just get in there
unless you know what the hell

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you're doing.
Yeah, you know.

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What I mean Formula One card
that also sometimes might want

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to kill you?
That's the personality, right?

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Right.
Right.

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So horses have a lot of
personality, right?

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Yeah.
Do you train horses?

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I used to, yeah.
And how do you train a horse the

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same way you train a dog?
Or like anything else, like sort

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of.
Sort of.

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Incentivize or.
I mean, it's it's consistency

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repetition.
How do you decide on a horse's

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personality that you like or
not?

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Takes time.
You can.

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Pick up on some of their
mannerisms pretty pretty early

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on, but in training them it's
especially when they're young,

234
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,880
it kind of can change every day.
So gotcha.

235
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,200
It was very fun and I that's the
part that I liked about it, but

236
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:51,640
I was definitely not fearful of
them and I think a little, a

237
00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:53,480
small amount of fear is a good
thing.

238
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,040
Yeah, I think it is.
Terrible, and it keeps you safe.

239
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,720
Yeah, I mean, it's like the
reason why anxiety anxiety isn't

240
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,600
inherently a bad thing.
It's when it's out of control

241
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,600
that it's a bad thing.
And like, it does exist for a

242
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,960
reason.
Like the reason why we

243
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,560
experience it.
It's yeah, it's cool that you

244
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,920
say that because I talked to a
lot of my clients about the

245
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,840
differences between stress and
anxiety.

246
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,840
What's the difference?
Well, stress.

247
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,680
Stress is a natural response to
a stimulus.

248
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,800
OK, anxiety is.
Irrational response to a

249
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,240
stimulus.
It doesn't make sense.

250
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,960
Well, it could make sense.
It's I mean.

251
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:33,040
Anxiety is produced when it's
not exactly congruent to the

252
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,360
stimulus causing.
It yes, correct, because it

253
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,480
hasn't, because whatever you're
interest about hasn't manifested

254
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,080
yet.
Exactly.

255
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,760
So it's irrational.
So it's a well, it's an attempt

256
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,720
to prepare.
Which is irrational.

257
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,040
Is it?
Rational, Rational looks like

258
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,080
congruent, right?
This thing is this thing is

259
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,720
scary, right?
In real time.

260
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,200
Thus I'm fearful stress response
is an evolutionary response.

261
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,560
It's something we require for
survival, right?

262
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,120
Anxiety is the presence of
stress response that is not

263
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,680
related to or based on or
congruent to the stimulus

264
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,840
causing it.
So it's like.

265
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,560
What can't it be, For example,
if I have social anxiety and it

266
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,000
stems from a particularly bad
event that happened, let's say,

267
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,360
you know, five years ago, you
know, and I, we got rejected by

268
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,360
a girl in front of 100 people at
a bar, you know, and, and now

269
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,520
I'm afraid it's not irrational.
I'm coming up with this

270
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,920
hypothetical in my head before I
put myself in that situation

271
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,840
every time and.
But it's no longer exactly

272
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,320
present to the way that it was
correct the actual time you.

273
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,600
Experienced, but it's potential
outcome that I want to avoid,

274
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,200
yes.
So it's associative, but it's

275
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,600
not necessarily.
History not based on present

276
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,920
stimulus, yes.
Thus it's irrational.

277
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,560
The difference between rational
and irrational isn't probably

278
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,480
what you're thinking.
Of OK, so explain so what's so

279
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,200
explain that so.
Rational is congruence, right?

280
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,960
So it's like saying.
Cars are coming.

281
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:07,960
It's raining.
It's gonna rain.

282
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,880
It's like saying let's go with a
bear, OK?

283
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:12,920
Grizzly bear.
Scary.

284
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,680
OK, Why is it scary?
Because it has a lot of capacity

285
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:20,240
to kill you, OK?
Very scary if you associate

286
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,640
grizzly bear with being just
like all bears, right?

287
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960
This is where you go wrong.
So grizzly bear equals scary.

288
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,960
OK, So if we put that as
rational fear, right, That makes

289
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,160
sense.
You should be scared of scary

290
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,240
things.
OK, Now, if you over generalize

291
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:44,080
that all bears are scary, you've
now stepped away from rational

292
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,480
thinking, right?
You have over generalized and

293
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,360
now all of a sudden you're
associating fear of bears.

294
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,120
Beautiful, which doesn't make
any type of sense.

295
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,520
It's thus irrational.
Now the history might tell you,

296
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,880
yeah, the bears are scary,
right?

297
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,960
But that's not based on the
exact stimulus in that moment,

298
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,520
right?
It's thus maladaptive.

299
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,360
It's no longer present to you.
So rational does not necessarily

300
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,560
equal understandable, exactly.
Something could be

301
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,520
understandable and I could get
where you got how you got, but

302
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,680
that doesn't necessarily make it
a rational decision exactly.

303
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,400
And I guess people probably
equate the two very often.

304
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,040
Yeah.
And irrational, nobody likes

305
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,600
that concept.
Nobody wants to think of

306
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,280
themselves as irrational.
Yeah, but we are.

307
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,760
We're very rational.
And coping strategies, defense

308
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,960
mechanisms, we all have them,
right.

309
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,680
And I think that eventually they
are maladaptive.

310
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,800
Yeah.
You know, they're, they came

311
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,800
from a good place.
That makes sense why that

312
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,440
happens.
Right, they're understandable.

313
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,040
Right, very understandable at
times.

314
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,560
It's just that when that same
stimulus is no longer present,

315
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,680
it's now irrational.
I gotcha, I gotcha.

316
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,920
How did you get how did you know
that you wanted to become a

317
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,680
therapist, psychologist.
When did this happen?

318
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,320
Because it seems like you had a
pretty diverse background before

319
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,040
this that wouldn't necessarily
point totally to this.

320
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,080
I mean, unless I'm missing
something, which I probably am,

321
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,720
you know, but based on the fact
that it's been 20 minutes to our

322
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,320
first time meeting, but but no
everything I've.

323
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:20,160
No.
Not yet.

324
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,040
Weird.
Not yet, not yet.

325
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,440
Guys guys guys.
Pretty fair about your privacy.

326
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,760
I.
Imagine.

327
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,640
What?
Yeah.

328
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,120
How'd you get started?
What, What, what?

329
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,840
What?
Encouraged it you did You always

330
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,360
know that this was something you
were interested in?

331
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,280
You always knew it.
Yeah, I think that people get

332
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,760
involved in their career path
for a variety of different

333
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,040
reasons, often times good
reasons.

334
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,080
Maybe it's something that they
experienced in their life that

335
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,440
drives them towards it.
I think mine was a combination

336
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,480
of that, you know, dealing with
my own life and stressors,

337
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,320
seeking therapy also when I was
a kid.

338
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,080
You started typing when you were
a kid.

339
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:00,680
Yeah.
How old are you?

340
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,000
When I started, I think I was 7
or 8, and then I saw a therapist

341
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,119
off and on throughout my life.
What's therapy like for a 7 or 8

342
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,800
year old?
I didn't like the therapist when

343
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,880
I was a kid.
I really didn't like her.

344
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,560
Do you think most kids don't
like their therapist?

345
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,319
No, I think some kids really
love their therapist.

346
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,760
OK.
And then I think it can be

347
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,839
really helpful.
I did not like that therapist.

348
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,000
I don't know that she was so
helpful to me.

349
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,240
What were they trying to what?
What was the goal?

350
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,720
What were you trying to
accomplish by at that point?

351
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:38,560
Working through anxieties, you
know, working at understanding

352
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,120
my own thoughts.
I think it was helpful to a

353
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,800
point that I could speak out
loud to someone, somebody

354
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,560
outside of my life also, which I
think is one of the best things

355
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,520
about therapy.
But I didn't like her.

356
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,200
I didn't like that her office
had painted clouds on the

357
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,280
ceiling, which was supposed to
be therapeutic.

358
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,440
And that's like one of the
things that.

359
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,640
I remember.
About it, yeah.

360
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,000
I just didn't like her.
And so I don't think I got that

361
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,560
much out of therapy with her.
So I don't think she was as

362
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,280
impactful.
But I came from a family of

363
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,080
helpers, right?
So I wanted to help.

364
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,320
I didn't want to physically
touch people the way that my

365
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,240
parents do, right, with
adjusting people, but I wanted

366
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,800
to help.
And then at one point I had a

367
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,440
therapist that was very
impactful my life and I felt

368
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,720
like this is really cool.
I want to help people the way

369
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,520
she helped me and then.
That's the best, isn't that?

370
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,360
It was very, very impactful.
But I think even bigger than

371
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:41,680
that, I think therapy is who I
am at my core.

372
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,600
I think it's what I was meant to
do.

373
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,440
To heal.
To heal, understand, to work

374
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,840
through things with people to
help them better understand

375
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,840
their own thoughts and where
they stand, identify additional

376
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,040
ways of thinking.
I think, I think I was always

377
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,720
meant to be a therapist and I
feel very strongly about that.

378
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,560
So it's cool that I had great
experiences with it.

379
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,320
But bigger than that, I think it
was always what I was going to

380
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:12,920
end up doing.
That's amazing.

381
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,600
Thank you.
You're really fortunate to have

382
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,360
figured that you know to do, you
know, so you think you knew that

383
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,680
since you had that great
therapist where you're like,

384
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:26,560
this is like.
I think that she was very cool

385
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,480
and insightful to me and I had a
great experience with her, but I

386
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,200
think she just kind of unlocked
that for me, right?

387
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,680
And, and LED me to that
understanding of myself that

388
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,720
that's what I was meant to do.
You know, I and I think that I

389
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,640
probably would have come across
it one way or another.

390
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,040
Yeah.
Do you think that therapy is for

391
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,400
everyone?
Absolutely, yes.

392
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,120
I think that every single person
can improve themselves and their

393
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,960
life by talking to somebody
about it.

394
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,800
Absolutely.
Do you think that therapy has to

395
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:04,040
be with a therapist?
No, no, I do not.

396
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,680
I think that it's, you know, the
training that a therapist has is

397
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,200
not like that of your friend or
your significant other.

398
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,120
The perspective that somebody
has on your life when they're

399
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:23,640
not in your life is important.
You know, any good therapist

400
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,560
will tell you that we don't give
advice.

401
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:32,760
We offer guidance of like
identifying your own advice for

402
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,560
yourself.
But I absolutely think that

403
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,800
every single person can improve
by choosing to take

404
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,120
responsibility for their own
actions and make a change in

405
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,080
their life.
So you think therapy is really a

406
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,920
call to responsibility?
Yeah, I think it's about taking

407
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,640
accountability of of your own.
I don't think that all people

408
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,800
are willing to do that.
I think it's a very, very

409
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,760
challenging thing.
That's the reason why when you

410
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,880
force someone to go to therapy,
it almost never works, right?

411
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,240
Exactly same reason, same thing
as rehab, for someone to go to

412
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,360
rehab.
See how that goes?

413
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,000
You know, I mean a percent,
8085%, you know, failure rate,

414
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,800
you know that people.
It's significant.

415
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,560
It's it's.
Super significant.

416
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,360
Because you have to take
accountability for your own

417
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,080
life, and you have to choose to
want to make things change.

418
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,600
Yeah.
And if somebody forces you into

419
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,120
that, it's not going to make a
difference.

420
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,400
You have to want it for
yourself.

421
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,560
Gotcha, gotcha.
So what's your so when do you

422
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:31,600
become a therapist?
How old are you?

423
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,680
When you what is it called
LLCSW?

424
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,360
No, I'm, I'm not a social
worker, I'm a therapist.

425
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:40,920
So I'm I'm a mental health
counselor specifically, so

426
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,640
slight variations.
I don't know what the difference

427
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,160
between any of them are.
So there's a lot of overlap,

428
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,640
which is why it gets very
confusing.

429
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,280
My to some extent, to some
extent, my schooling is more

430
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,000
specific to the helping
relationship.

431
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,440
So it's more focused on that and
it's also focused on the the

432
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,880
spectrum of mental health,
whereas social work is a little

433
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,120
bit more focused on like case
management and helping people

434
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,640
assimilate into society.
Social work, right?

435
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,600
So slight variations different,
but a lot of overlap in what we

436
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,560
can do.
So my license enables me to do a

437
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,720
variety of things, just like
social work, but it's just, you

438
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,440
know, nuanced differences, let's
say.

439
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,240
What kind of techniques do you
use?

440
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,560
CBT.
Anything else?

441
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,400
I would describe it as very
eclectic.

442
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,720
I don't think that all of the
people benefit from all of the

443
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,200
same things CBT is.
CBT is a funny way of saying I

444
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,400
do talk therapy.
It's kind of like what we all

445
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,240
say we do.
Well, they're synonymous, aren't

446
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,800
they?
I believe so.

447
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,200
People will tell you otherwise.
People would definitely tell you

448
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,000
otherwise.
OK.

449
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,760
But I kind of use them as like
tools in my tool belt and when I

450
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,120
think something is applicable, I
pull it out.

451
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,440
But what I think is most helpful
above any of the like named

452
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,040
types of therapy is I talk to
people about their lives.

453
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,640
I work with high functioning
individuals that want to

454
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,240
optimize themselves.
Optimize.

455
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,200
Optimize.
Yeah, that's a good word.

456
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,200
Yeah.
Especially thrown with a random

457
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,240
Y in the middle somewhere.
There.

458
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,680
Yeah, that's what we think.
I think, I think, I think it's a

459
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:34,080
great marketing pitch.
I think so, so, so, so you, you

460
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,560
have your own, your own
practice.

461
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,520
You.
You do your own thing.

462
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,160
Yeah, yeah.
So I've had my practice now for

463
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,360
five or six years.
Wow, awesome.

464
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,280
What was it?
What?

465
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,720
What did you do before that?
So I finished my masters and I

466
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,480
dove head first into private
practice.

467
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,200
You went straight from.
Really.

468
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,200
That's not common, right?
No, no.

469
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,040
Almost unheard of.
Why did do you have a?

470
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,240
Do you have a hard time working
for people?

471
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,240
I no, it's not even that I, I
can take direction and, and you

472
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,760
know, I think that that would
have been very good learning for

473
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,400
me also to work in like
community mental health or

474
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,520
something like that.
But I knew what my end goal was.

475
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,400
To you like, why not just get
started, right?

476
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,480
Exactly.
And I really believe that like

477
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,720
when you first get out of
school, you have kind of the

478
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,840
most amount of momentum and
motivation.

479
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,040
So I figured it's going to be a
hustle.

480
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,840
Yeah, now it's a great time to
hustle.

481
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,680
So what do you do?
How do you so you graduate and

482
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,800
now you're like, I have no
money.

483
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,160
I don't know where to start.
I don't know what to do and I

484
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,600
just know that I want to do
this.

485
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,920
But first of all, when these
kind of, because I think that,

486
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,520
and this is really important, I
think just in general, I think

487
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,920
people tend to get super
overwhelmed and you have a whole

488
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,840
bunch of steps in front of you
and a whole like you're like,

489
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,160
you know that you want to get to
here and you know, you're

490
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,160
starting here and everything in
between is kind of just a big

491
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,440
question mark.
And that, I think, overwhelms an

492
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,480
enormous amount of people.
For sure.

493
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,160
So how did you deal with that?
So I think one of the things

494
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,160
that was scariest to me was that
there were so many routes

495
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,320
forward, too many routes
forward.

496
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,600
How on earth are you supposed to
know, like, which one you take,

497
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680
you know?
And I didn't really know where

498
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,720
to start.
I had a great supervisor, and

499
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,040
she certainly helped me when she
could.

500
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,560
But I was trying to learn how to
be a therapist and also trying

501
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,000
to understand how on earth to
run a business.

502
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Yeah.
And running a business is not

503
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,000
something that they teach you in
grad school.

504
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,240
They don't teach you that
anywhere.

505
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,320
Which is the dumbest?
The dumbest?

506
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,240
Yeah, it's so stupid.
And and I think they do

507
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,600
therapists a disservice in like
a program like mine that they

508
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,440
don't talk to you about.
Could you if you?

509
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,600
Want a disservice?
I I listen by my own choice,

510
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,200
which is, you know, say what you
will about the decision.

511
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,400
I was a creative writing and
literature major, right?

512
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,480
Even if I were to say with full
confidence, I'm going to be a

513
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,960
writer, I'm going to go to
Hollywood and write scripts, I'm

514
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,360
going to go to New York.
I'm going to, you know, write in

515
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,200
a magazine or do journalism,
whatever it is.

516
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,880
I still need to know accounting.
I still need to know how to

517
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,480
balance a checkbook.
I still need to know what it

518
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,560
means to pay a mortgage or what
it means to do that.

519
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,360
I didn't have to take.
I think one math class.

520
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,640
That had nothing to do with
anything.

521
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,240
And you know, and I'm sure,
yeah, everyone will complain.

522
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Like I said, I'm here to be a
writer.

523
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,360
I don't want to take accounting.
I'm here to be a therapist.

524
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:36,880
I'm not here to take accounting
classes.

525
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,680
But like, you know what
percentage of therapists go into

526
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,480
their own?
You know what at least want to

527
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,360
try go and making their own
private practices.

528
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,600
And so many of them flop because
they have no fucking clue how to

529
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,440
do it.
Yeah.

530
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,920
Which is, which is a shame.
So what, what, what, what So

531
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,400
you've been doing this.
I'm curious also, you know, it's

532
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,600
similar story, I know for
businesses and podcasts that

533
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,480
like an enormous percentage of
them fail within the first year,

534
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,400
right?
And then I think once you

535
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,080
survive for like a year or two,
then the odds of your success go

536
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,200
up exponentially each year after
that, right?

537
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,920
Because there's you've already
made it way past where most of

538
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,800
the other people are and now
you're competing with a top X

539
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,960
percentage.
Does that happen with private

540
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,160
practices also, that a lot of
people would like start for a

541
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,120
couple of months and be like,
oh, I can't, I can't do it.

542
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,120
Yeah, I would.
I would imagine yes.

543
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,920
Have I looked into the
specifics?

544
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,080
Also no.
Done it yourself?

545
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280
So what have you done yourself
to stay successful?

546
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,560
OK, so first rewind.
Let's go back to the beginning.

547
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:45,480
So I was very fortunate because
I had a very random gig.

548
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:53,600
My cousin worked in marketing
for a very big company and she

549
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,560
hooked me up while I was in grad
school with a social media job.

550
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,760
OK, so while I was on bed rest
while I was in school, I was

551
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,040
making money and that was it was
something, it was something that

552
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,480
I could do.
I was liking images on social

553
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,120
media, you know, I was reaching
out to people, I was connecting

554
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:14,920
with people.
I didn't know anything about

555
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,600
marketing, but it was, you know,
it was cool.

556
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,040
So whatever, I worked a lot of
hours and and it was a great gig

557
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,760
for the time being.
So while I had that job, I also

558
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,120
was ramping up on, on my
practice, right?

559
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,920
So I was fortunate to have
something that was so flexible

560
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,080
that when I needed to give hours
to the practice, I could, I

561
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,000
didn't have a set schedule, I
didn't have set hours.

562
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,280
I could work as much as I wanted
to, as little as I needed to,

563
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,280
whatever.
And I also had very supportive

564
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,160
parents.
So it's.

565
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,560
The best thing in the title?
Right.

566
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,080
And and I was very fortunate to
have that.

567
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,520
So I couldn't have done this
without some variation of it.

568
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
And so it's very expensive to
start practice.

569
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:13,200
And while I think I did it in
the least expensive way also.

570
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,720
Yeah.
Yeah, and a lot of people don't

571
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,080
make it because of that, right?
Totally, totally.

572
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,080
So I recognize how lucky I was
to have those things, but it was

573
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,960
definitely an uphill battle for
a while.

574
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,160
It's very hard to make a name
for yourself when you are

575
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,080
starting from nothing.
Yeah, and I hated going to

576
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,400
networking events.
Hated it.

577
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,920
What about what about then did
you hate?

578
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,000
You felt like you were cheesy.
You felt like they were fake.

579
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,480
I am not a fake person.
I don't, I can't do it.

580
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,160
I just I get awkward.
I hate everything about it.

581
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,040
I like real conversations with
people which is why therapy

582
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,720
makes a lot of sense to me.
But very surface bullshit

583
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,800
conversations do not.
And so going to networking

584
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,720
events, I felt like I was so
inauthentic.

585
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760
I, I felt like I just didn't
belong at them.

586
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,040
You know, I would tell somebody
I was a therapist, they would

587
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,960
tell me their whole life story
and every trauma they had ever

588
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,000
experienced.
And what you do about that.

589
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,080
Please don't.
You could be a client, but don't

590
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,720
tell me this right now, do.
You get that a lot.

591
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,960
I feel you get that.
I feel I feel like people like

592
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,040
hear therapist and they just a
license to just dump yes, go

593
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,560
crazy with that.
Strangers.

594
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,480
Just anybody.
So much so that at this point I

595
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,200
have learned that I need to like
make up or have like a cover

596
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,240
story.
Gotcha.

597
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I'll tell them like

598
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,600
something totally out of left
field so that they don't ask any

599
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,320
further and.
That's smart.

600
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,120
You ride horses.
Yeah, I'm a horse rider.

601
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,600
You know, I could be.
Come up with something something

602
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,440
so outlandish that they have no
response.

603
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,720
To so you start so so how do you
get your how do you get your

604
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,400
first clients?
Do you do you do advertising?

605
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Do people reach out to you or
you on a social media?

606
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,400
You know, how does it build up
there?

607
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,960
Because I imagine that like I
know from my own business that

608
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080
most of my clientele are
doctors.

609
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,840
I sell medical equipment and
most of them are not just

610
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,280
looking on Facebook or looking
on Instagram, this kind of

611
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,040
thing.
So I know that the channel of

612
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,000
marketing that I have to go
through in order to kind of get

613
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,520
the best kind of customers, the
best kind of, you know, clients

614
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,080
is not best invested in social
media necessarily.

615
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,400
You know, what do you, what do
you, what did you do at the

616
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,520
time?
At the time I was just trying to

617
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,200
meet people and talk to them
about it.

618
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,680
What else was I doing?
I was trying a little bit of

619
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,800
social media but I hated it.
It's so hard to maintain, right?

620
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,800
It's.
So hard to maintain and it's

621
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,480
also very fake.
It gives me a real appreciation.

622
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,480
People that could do it, by the
way.

623
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120
Yeah, Because the people that
post like daily or, you know,

624
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,280
yeah, three or four times a
week, I'm like, it's, it's

625
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,280
exhausting.
And like, it takes a lot out of

626
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,400
you, at least at least out of
me, you know, like even just

627
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,520
sharing my stupid podcast and my
story, I'm like, yeah, look at

628
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,200
it like I, I need a break after
that, you know, like it's

629
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,400
exhausting.
It's, it's, yeah, I can't do it.

630
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,560
I'm not great at it.
I'm not great at it.

631
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,200
I'm working on it, but I'm not
great at it.

632
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,640
So I I was trying to just get my
name out to anyone that I could,

633
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,480
passing out business cards.
It was rough.

634
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,120
But in an industry like this,
once you get the ball rolling,

635
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,360
the momentum that you have keeps
it rolling.

636
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,520
Then clients tell other clients.
That's it.

637
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,640
Referrals are big.
So I really would say that a lot

638
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,520
of the growth was referrals
through other clients,

639
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,840
especially in the beginning.
And then I got really lucky

640
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,120
because I found some different
online platforms that would

641
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,560
enable me to get credentialed
with insurance companies without

642
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,360
me having to do any of the work.
And that's why a lot of

643
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,320
clinicians shy away from that
because to try and be the

644
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,360
therapist, run the business and
handle the billing and the

645
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,840
insurance stuff is way too much.
There's not enough.

646
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,560
Can I ask?
You about that?

647
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,160
How does that work?
Yeah, how does?

648
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,880
How does?
How does billing insurance work?

649
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,920
So you got, so you got, you got
a, you know, client.

650
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,520
A patient walks in, a client
walks in, and it's either

651
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,200
typically out of pocket or
covered by XY and Z insurance.

652
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:41,720
So I'm now in network with most
major insurances and and so I

653
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,960
have I'm now a member of these
platforms that since I'm in

654
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,200
network with them, they handle
all of the so.

655
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,800
You so you have a, let's say a
set charge that you charge per

656
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,680
session.
You've passed that to the

657
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640
insurance company.
Not even, it's less than that.

658
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,640
So I have my out of pocket rate,
right.

659
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,760
So if somebody doesn't have
insurance, they don't want to

660
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,680
use their insurance.
We can go that route.

661
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,920
It's very easy.
Cool.

662
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,200
Somebody wants to use their
insurance.

663
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,960
I verify their insurance
benefits through one of these

664
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,679
platforms that I use.
All right.

665
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,800
They have negotiated
reimbursement rates.

666
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,440
What is it so negotiated
reimbursement rates means that

667
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,199
there that you give you pass
along XY and say that's a

668
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,760
$200.00 bill the.
Platform negotiates, so let's

669
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,639
say.
So the two main ones that I work

670
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:33,679
with now are Alma and Headway,
OK and two different platforms,

671
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,840
but they operate similarly.
So let's go with Alma.

672
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,120
Alma has contract with all of
these different insurance

673
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,040
companies, right?
And the way that it works is

674
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:50,400
that they'll say we'll offer you
providers and in turn you send

675
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,040
us the clients, right?
For these providers, they

676
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,240
already have a an agreed upon
amount that each clinician will

677
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:03,000
make and there's nothing taken
off the top of what I make.

678
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,520
I make more money utilizing
these platforms than I would if

679
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,960
I was in.
Technically.

680
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:17,200
Credentialed with them, right
And the reimbursement is, is

681
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:24,120
what's the word guaranteed.
By the platform, by the platform

682
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,440
that you're using that are
associated with all those

683
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,640
businesses.
Exactly.

684
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,560
So it's all streamlined for me.
I don't have to personally

685
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,200
negotiate rates as I would if I.
People would ordinarily have to.

686
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,880
So usually what happened is
you'd call Blue Cross and you'd

687
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,480
say, hi, I just billed this
patient $200 for a session and

688
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,720
they'd say we're going to send
you back 150.

689
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:45,640
Is that how it works?
Yeah.

690
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,360
So when you first get
credentialed, you have to let

691
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,640
them know your credent, you have
to let them know all about you,

692
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,600
whatever.
And they say, OK, we'll offer

693
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,760
you this much per session.
It's usually a garbage amount,

694
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,520
but that's all they're offering.
You say garbage amount like

695
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,320
under 100 bucks, Yeah.
OK.

696
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,480
Yeah, which is sounds absurd.
OK sounds absurd by the way, to

697
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,720
go to school for X amount of
years and then be a therapist or

698
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,560
a psychologist and.
But they will offer you that

699
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,600
amount because maybe you know
what your license is, you know

700
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,800
what your, what your degree is,
whatever.

701
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,440
And then you can say, you know,
well, I, I want to have more

702
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,320
whatever they'll say, no, here's
your amount.

703
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,280
And that's kind of it.
But then each time that I do a

704
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,600
session with any of the clients
with that insurance.

705
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,800
And the reason why you want to
work with the insurance company

706
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,360
to begin with is because
presumably the, the, the client

707
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,320
would not be able to pay you out
of pocket because they're

708
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,320
already, because they're already
paying their insurance bill.

709
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560
And so you're getting new
patients that ordinarily

710
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,000
wouldn't walk through the door
and you're finding that middle

711
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,960
and they're getting paid, you
know, so they're paying the

712
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,960
insurance X amount.
The insurance is going to pay

713
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,360
you some kind of middle ground
between what they would have

714
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,800
paid you to walk in and what you
would have had if nothing you

715
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,200
know.
And it's 2025, nobody wants to

716
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600
pay out of pocket, especially
not right now.

717
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,880
People are struggling right now.
People are struggling now.

718
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,920
So when I tell them my cash
rate, they're like weekly.

719
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,680
No way.
Yeah, but I'm already paying for

720
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,720
my health insurance, so yeah, I
might as well utilize that

721
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:18,800
benefit.
Do you have to get?

722
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,000
Insurance as as a therapist, do
you have to get like insured?

723
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,200
Yeah.
Then what is that like?

724
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,960
I have a a liability insurance.
That and that's in case someone

725
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,320
comes after you and says that
you did that you.

726
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,560
Yeah, just like any malpractice.
Yeah, what is what would cause a

727
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,480
malpractice to in therapy?
In therapy it's things like.

728
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,840
Because if someone like got
divorced because something like

729
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,800
that because of the session that
I mean therapist.

730
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,560
There's there's ethical
guidelines that we have, right.

731
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,760
So if you were to like overtly
cross an ethical guideline

732
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,640
that's, you know, something that
you'd be liable for if you

733
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,440
handled somebody harmed someone
else and you didn't alert

734
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,520
services, you could be liable
for that.

735
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,760
There was abuse.
You know, the things that we

736
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,880
have to report on, you could be
live.

737
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,120
Have you had to report anyone
before?

738
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,200
No.
That's good.

739
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,720
What would you have to do?
Would you feel bad about it if

740
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:12,800
it came?
If it came to it.

741
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,360
Yeah, yeah.
It's a tough situation.

742
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,800
It's so tough.
You know the the details of it.

743
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,800
You're not always Privy to it,
so it's very difficult.

744
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,600
Right, right.
Do you watch The Sopranos?

745
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,400
No.
You should.

746
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,720
You should.
You should because.

747
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,240
Drama.
Well, it's a lot of drama.

748
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:35,000
It's interesting because I've
heard from other therapists or

749
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,320
psychologists that have spoken
to that watch the show, that the

750
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,640
premise of the show is that
there's a mop boss and he's and,

751
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:47,360
and the fundamental relationship
in that show is him with his

752
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,480
therapist.
And he's like the first mob

753
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,880
boss.
Everybody got a therapist and

754
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,160
he's trying to juggle his life
of raising a family, his wife,

755
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,360
his Gumar, his, you know, being
the boss.

756
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,960
What?
I didn't know that was the

757
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,640
premise of.
Yeah, yeah.

758
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,280
And the whole show is, and the
whole show is actually a

759
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,080
psychological evaluation of who
Tony Soprano is.

760
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,640
And at the end of the end of the
show, the show actually comes to

761
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,960
a conclusion because they
actually diagnosed him and and

762
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,560
the therapist says, I'm sorry, I
can't, you know, I don't know, I

763
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,920
can help you anymore.
I think you're, you know, beyond

764
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,920
the scope of what I'm able to do
to work with and and then the

765
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,800
show ends very, very short
after.

766
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,080
And so the whole but what the
government of spoken to a

767
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,200
psychologist and therapist about
the show like she's the worst

768
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,920
therapist.
Like like if she was anyone

769
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,200
therapist in real life, like it
would be a shit show.

770
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,280
It was.
It was terrible.

771
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,240
That's what's tough when you,
when you, I mean, in any

772
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,000
profession, right?
When you see it on TV, it's

773
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,040
always like slightly different
than how you'd need to do it in

774
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,000
real life.
Yeah.

775
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,480
But I I didn't realize that
that's what the premise of.

776
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,640
The show was yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's cool.

777
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,760
And there, you know, I mean, I
don't know if she shows up in

778
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,000
every single episode, but, you
know, and she also goes through

779
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,280
a lot of these moral quandaries,
having to be a therapy.

780
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,440
Therapist for a mafia boss and
on one hand she wants to help

781
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,960
the patient on the other hand,
he's very overtly telling her, I

782
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,840
had a friend of mine and he had
to disappear.

783
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:19,560
You're like, well, so I wonder
how?

784
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,400
I wonder how Gray the lines are
that if someone says something

785
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,120
like that, like someone
insinuates a crime or something

786
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960
insinuates something.
So our, our legal parameters are

787
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,720
that everything stays
confidential, unless of course,

788
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,560
you express interest in harming
yourself, that's number one, or

789
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,840
harming someone else, right?
So if they express that they

790
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,200
have the means to do it, a plan
for action, you know, maybe

791
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,880
history of violence, things like
that, then OK, we deem this to

792
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,800
be a legitimate threat.
Contact authorities, right?

793
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,560
The difficulty in the mental
health field is that these

794
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,680
systems are designed to be
helpful and they are often times

795
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,520
not.
Can you elaborate?

796
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,200
So in Florida, we have the Baker
app system.

797
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,440
OK, OK, so legally somebody
expressed interest in harming

798
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,640
themselves, right?
Suicidality you would contact

799
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,440
authorities to have them do
let's say a Wellness check,

800
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,160
right to see you know what, what
the parameters of the situation

801
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,920
are.
Do we take them in?

802
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,160
Do we not right.
The difficulty of that is that

803
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:36,520
if the client does not outright
say to the cops face I am going

804
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,960
to kill myself, they will not
take them in.

805
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,600
Right.
So you have, you know, a

806
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,800
teenager that is upset, but they
don't want somebody telling them

807
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,200
what to do.
They don't want to go to the

808
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,800
hospital.
They don't want to do anything,

809
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,240
but you know that they're going
to harm themselves, the cop

810
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:54,720
said.
I can't.

811
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:59,720
Do anything about it?
Because it's illegal to harm

812
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,160
yourself.
Well, does it, do you think it

813
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,200
protects a lot of like, do you
think that the language comes

814
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,360
like loose language comes up
often enough that if they were

815
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,720
to be able to kind of take
people away or, you know,

816
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:18,760
hospitalized people based on
rhetoric, that a lot more people

817
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,600
would be needlessly hospitalized
or taken away than like, let's

818
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,000
say, you know, hypothetically,
like unless I know right now the

819
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,080
case is very specific unless you
say these words.

820
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,960
But what if you say like, you
know, like, I just wish it would

821
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,040
all be over, you know, and like,
that's a very clear, you know,

822
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,240
insinuation as to what you're
saying.

823
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,480
But, you know, so on one hand, I
feel like that would like be

824
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,160
good grounds to at least look
into it.

825
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,720
Yeah.
On the other hand, I mean,

826
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,800
yesterday, you know, 2 days ago,
we, you know, I had a super

827
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,120
stressful weekend and, and, you
know, I was sitting, you know,

828
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,520
we sat down and my wife would
take a shower and I had both

829
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,400
kids with me and it was like
10:00 at night.

830
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,120
And yeah.
And the four year and the four

831
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,040
month and four week old was
crying and you know the whole

832
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:04,880
night.
Took a shower.

833
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,640
And I said to him, I was like,
and she came out and I was like,

834
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,800
I love you.
I'm so close to snapping right

835
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:11,840
now.
I don't want to.

836
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,120
Yeah, I know.
But like someone could take

837
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,760
that.
I feel like if you just heard a

838
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,480
transcript of that, like that
sounds like almost like

839
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,720
borderline like abuse, You know,
that sounds like a little crazy.

840
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,280
Like, yeah, it doesn't sound
great.

841
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,240
So like I could see how you need
like, very specific language to

842
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:30,560
protect the person talking.
On the other hand, like you

843
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,280
said, like it doesn't give you
the space to really be able to

844
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,480
kind of help in what you or
trained to know or trained to

845
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,640
identify.
Yeah, it's a it's a very tricky

846
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,960
space to be in, definitely.
At the end of the day, I think

847
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,400
what stays most important is
somebody's safety.

848
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,960
So I'd rather overcorrect than
undercorrect, definitely.

849
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,280
But the difficulty really is
that we all say stupid shit

850
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,520
sometimes.
Like been there, but a therapist

851
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,040
is trained to understand the
nuance difference between like

852
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,200
when this person is actually a
threat to themselves versus when

853
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,720
they're not.
And there's things that we look

854
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,840
for kind of reading between the
lines on what somebody is

855
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,600
saying.
And so by the time a therapist

856
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,040
is contacting the authorities,
it's because they've likely.

857
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,640
And again, I can't speak for all
of the therapists, but if you're

858
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,560
well trained and you're doing
your job, yeah.

859
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,640
You've seen the signs.
Yeah, Then, you know, it's

860
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,920
because this person has been
deemed to be a threat.

861
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,080
And when the police get there,
that's, that's unnerving, you

862
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,560
know.
And no, I don't want to go with

863
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,960
you.
I'm not going to kill myself.

864
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,960
That's often times the response
that people get.

865
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,800
I think that we have a crisis of
mental health in this country

866
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,800
that's quite bad.
And I just think that the

867
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,840
systems that are in place are
designed to be helpful and are

868
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,200
not always helpful, which is
tough.

869
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:57,840
And I'm not saying I know the
right way.

870
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,040
All right, for the record, I
don't know all of the things,

871
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,360
but.
Do you have any, do you have any

872
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,920
ideas as to what do you think
could make it better?

873
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,440
Like just even steps or or small
ideas that you think actually,

874
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,640
let's first, before you even do
that, let's identify.

875
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,080
Do you want to try to identify
what do you think the root of a

876
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,600
lot of the because you can't
identify V root.

877
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,240
Obviously mental health is a
mass spectrum, but what are some

878
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:25,040
of the roots that are causes
that that that are causing this

879
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,040
mental health epidemic that
we're experiencing?

880
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,440
Because if you unless or and how
much of it do you think is

881
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,480
really just people diagnosing it
for the first time as opposed to

882
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,760
like shutting it down like you
know, our parents generation

883
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,120
used to do.
Yeah, Yeah.

884
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,000
I think that there's a lot of
reasons.

885
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,720
Like you said, there's a lot of
reasons.

886
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,640
I think it comes from a lot of
different sources.

887
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,560
There are some things that are,
let's say biological, genetic to

888
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,760
some extent, right, passed down
generation to degeneration.

889
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,400
There are other things that are
you talking.

890
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,960
About like generational trauma
kind of thing.

891
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,880
Generational trauma, but also I
believe that there are

892
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,400
biological markers of some of
these mental health disorders as

893
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,200
well.
For example, like you just like

894
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:14,520
just any any random.
Example.

895
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,320
Often times with schizophrenia,
there it is.

896
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,240
Yeah, that's genetic, OK.
You know, sometimes bipolar

897
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:24,280
disorder, but the truth is that
it's, I can't even say with

898
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,280
certainty that one of these is
definitely genetic, but

899
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:28,920
sometimes.
Also it's yeah, yeah.

900
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,280
Yeah, and that's why mental
health is so abstract and so

901
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,160
complex that there isn't anyone
specific 'cause right.

902
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,520
So with that being said, that it
kind of can also come from maybe

903
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,960
anything.
What other reasons are there?

904
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,240
We know, for example, like huge
factors, hypothetically at least

905
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,880
I would think is physical
Wellness, right?

906
00:46:55,080 --> 00:47:01,760
That must do physical Wellness
that that you know, that that

907
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,800
exercise, you know, generally is
really, really good for your

908
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,960
mental health.
And we also know that people do

909
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,240
not like to do not exercise very
often in this country.

910
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:12,120
And there's probably far more
gym memberships than there are

911
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,480
people working out in the gym,
correct, You know?

912
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,320
That plays a role.
There's a lot of that.

913
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,360
Yep, social media, absolutely.
But I think mindset behind any

914
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,600
of these things, I think that
the conversation around mental

915
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:31,720
health is often times about like
this stigma that there is right

916
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:34,520
about getting help for something
like that, or you have to be

917
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:40,040
crazy to get help for something.
You know that this idea is it's

918
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,800
not bad enough to seek help.
But the truth is when you when

919
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,280
you don't opt for for some kind
of help, that's often times when

920
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,920
it gets worse, correct?
So what?

921
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,240
Was it preventative maintenance?
Exactly.

922
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:53,520
Exactly.
And preventative Healthcare is

923
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,920
just not liked.
Doesn't exist, right?

924
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,360
Because it requires
responsibility and discipline.

925
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,040
And accountability, yeah, yeah.
Which a lot of people don't

926
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,840
have, especially nowadays.
Also, willingness to work hard.

927
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,640
You know, a lot of people want
to pop a pill to forget about

928
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,000
all of the things or to mask it
or to Band-Aid it, and they

929
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,400
don't want to work on themselves
to make things different, so.

930
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,920
But right, so if you're trying
to convince someone that is

931
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,200
like, listen, like, you know, I
may not be getting better, but I

932
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,680
feel fine on a day-to-day basis
because of XY and Z, you know,

933
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,960
and like I may not be thriving,
but like, you know, I'm going

934
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,840
through life, you know, like I'm
just one of those people.

935
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,720
Like why would like, what do you
think would incentivize them to?

936
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,880
What do you think would
incentivize the average person

937
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,960
to be proactive and healthy
about themselves?

938
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,840
Drive to want to be.
Better if you don't want, you

939
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,920
can't.
Yeah, I was about to say, I feel

940
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,080
like a lot of people don't have
that.

941
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,240
I feel like a lot of people are
just content with I feel like.

942
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,600
Complacency.
Yeah, and complacency is kind of

943
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,280
almost built into human nature,
I think.

944
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,640
I think that some people, you
know, we for me, like my biggest

945
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,760
challenge with everything I do
is I have a tendency to think

946
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,880
good enough, you know, while I'm
doing anything I do, I'm going

947
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,520
for a jog.
I've reached, you know, 3/4 way

948
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,800
through what I wanted to do good
enough, you know, I'm fine.

949
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,360
You know, I wanted you to
jujitsu 2, three times a week.

950
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,880
You know, I'm like, I did twice
this week.

951
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,320
Good enough.
I'm not going to do a third time

952
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,160
like that.
That that's my biggest struggle.

953
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,760
And I have to.
But I mean, I expose myself

954
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,640
constantly to content and to
people and to friends and to

955
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,480
different, you know, books and
things that are telling me not

956
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,880
to be complacent.
And I constantly remind myself

957
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,560
because if I don't remind myself
all the time, then I I fall back

958
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:43,520
to that tendency.
Yeah.

959
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:47,240
You know, well, functionality
really is such a spectrum, how

960
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:49,920
well we're functioning.
You always have the ability to

961
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,000
optimize yourself.
Doesn't mean you choose to,

962
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:53,560
right?
Doesn't mean you buy into it.

963
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,840
Doesn't mean that you have
enough motivation to to not only

964
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,560
see the change that you're
capable of, but to put it into

965
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,920
action.
A lot of us reach that point,

966
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,880
right?
But I think that mental health

967
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,800
is also such a spectrum.
And how well are you

968
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,080
functioning, right?
If you are stuck in neutral and

969
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,120
that's OK to you, you'll
probably stay there.

970
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,440
If you're a neutral and you're
uncomfortable, good should be

971
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,960
now.
You're yeah, yeah.

972
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,800
Now you shift gears.
So I think that that's where

973
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,360
some people find themselves.
But people that are comfortable

974
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,040
and neutral won't experience
that.

975
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,880
And is that part of the mental
health epidemic?

976
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,160
Probably not, because neutrality
is worse than being net

977
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,520
negative, right?
And there are a lot of people in

978
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,160
a net negative.
Here you think people with that

979
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,960
we definitely have a
self-destructive tendency.

980
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,280
I feel like you know.
And part of that, I believe, is

981
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,920
an enabling culture that we
have.

982
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:53,320
Do you want to elaborate on
that?

983
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,440
Yeah, because I would love to.
I would love to hear what you

984
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:56,520
think about that.
Yeah, Yeah.

985
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,320
So I think that back to this
idea of kind of the negative

986
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,800
connotation that mental health
has, I think that there's while

987
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,560
we're more, we're, we're more
likely nowadays to talk about

988
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,600
mental health than we were,
let's say 20 years ago, right?

989
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,800
That's very cool.
Let's keep doing that.

990
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,360
You know, the downside of that
is that there's kind of what's

991
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:25,240
going hand in hand with that is
this glamorization of being

992
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,600
unwell, right?
That it's not about being

993
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,520
relatable to other people that
experience difficulties.

994
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,760
But you have some of these
celebrities coming out saying

995
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,280
I'm bipolar and these are the
meds I take and it's so great.

996
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:45,040
And you're you're glamorizing
something that's not so great.

997
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,560
You know, we can normalize.
It it's a fascinating

998
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,440
observation.
Yeah, it's really interesting.

999
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,360
We can.
We can and should talk about it.

1000
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:53,760
We should talk about the
difficulties.

1001
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,840
But tell me how hard you're
working at helping yourself.

1002
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,520
That's what we should glamorize,
right?

1003
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,200
That's what we should focus on.
And I think that with this

1004
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,440
culture of, you know, talking
about the struggles that people

1005
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,280
experience and how, like, cool
or trendy it is to have anxiety,

1006
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,320
you have people just slapping
around labels as though they

1007
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,840
don't mean anything.
She's bipolar.

1008
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:21,080
What?
You don't even know what that

1009
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,760
term means.
You know, So we're glamorizing

1010
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,840
it without actually talking
about you have to put your ass

1011
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,680
in gear and I.
Think people do say that a lot

1012
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,080
about autism these days, right?
I feel like everyone's talking

1013
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,440
about autism and being on the
spectrum a little bit and like

1014
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,280
they're just like it's become a
massively yeah, popular like

1015
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,480
movement.
It almost feels like it's just

1016
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,680
to like spite RFK, you know,
like it feels like it's just

1017
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,920
trying to spite the fact that
when he says they're trying to

1018
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,360
get to the root of like why?
Why it's exploded.

1019
00:52:48,360 --> 00:53:11,840
Yeah, that.
Yeah.

1020
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:18,760
I think that to assimilate means
to accept, you know, accept and

1021
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:24,040
choose to move forward.
And I think that this enabling

1022
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:32,520
that we're seeing so much of so
readily so frequently of of like

1023
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,720
it's cool to to have these
struggles.

1024
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:41,520
I think that it minimizes these
difficulties and I think it

1025
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,360
doesn't disservice to the
difficulties, right, You know,

1026
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,520
to the realities of what life is
like.

1027
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,440
But it's really interesting
because I feel like there has to

1028
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,360
be a middle ground, right?
Because on one hand, we just

1029
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,240
grew up with a generation that
just completely shunned aside

1030
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,640
any kind of aspect, you know,
notion that like you cannot

1031
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,480
complain about how you feel or
you know, what your places in

1032
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,000
the world are like.
You can't have those kind of

1033
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,440
questions and like shut up and
go back to work kind of thing,

1034
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,040
you know?
And now it's almost like the

1035
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:13,400
total opposite where it's like,
we want to know exactly why you

1036
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,480
don't why, why you're not coming
to work today.

1037
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,000
And then we'll encourage you not
to come into work today because

1038
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,720
that's great.
As opposed to saying, I feel

1039
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:26,880
like the, the, the sweet spot
would be like, Hey, I you need a

1040
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,040
mental health day or X amount a
year.

1041
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:34,000
I understand that, you know, but
what can we do?

1042
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,800
Like that shouldn't be your
baseline.

1043
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,400
Like we want you to be better,
you want to be healthier.

1044
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,160
We want you to be feel better.
And like if you need it, we

1045
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:42,760
understand.
What could we do to make sure

1046
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,080
that we that you don't need
those that you feel happier on a

1047
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,280
day-to-day basis, more
fulfilled, more content?

1048
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,680
Yeah, how about you're
struggling today?

1049
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,040
I see you.
Here's resources that can help

1050
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,360
you with that.
You're expected to be back at

1051
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,240
work by this date.
Interesting.

1052
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:00,800
So do the Yeah, you, we're
giving you the opportunity to

1053
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,760
get back, almost like if you
hurt yourself, right?

1054
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,320
If you broke your leg and you're
like, OK, well, I have two

1055
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:06,560
months out now because I broke
my leg.

1056
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,560
And then you take six months off
because you just don't feel like

1057
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,520
going back to work.
Then you probably won't have a

1058
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:12,880
job when you get back.
Exactly.

1059
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,800
So get your shit together, but
also we'll help you get your

1060
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,200
shit together.
Interesting, right?

1061
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,600
I love that and I want to go
back to it.

1062
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,840
Something that you said, because
I think it's really impactful.

1063
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,480
You talk about, you know, this
Gray space and I think that

1064
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,240
that's so important for kind of
any and all of the topics.

1065
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:30,320
Anything that you could talk
about.

1066
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,600
I think that moderation is key
to everything in life.

1067
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,240
Anything done in the extremes is
not done with health and or

1068
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:45,280
Wellness even being relevant.
So any topic that you could come

1069
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,800
up with should seek moderation.
Yeah.

1070
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:53,360
And when it doesn't, right, when
it's done to to whatever

1071
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,800
capacity that's too much.
There's some amount of failure

1072
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,240
to that.
You're speaking my language,

1073
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,720
you're speaking my language and
it's actually crazy when I've,

1074
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,200
I've discovered this a lot in
the last couple of years of my

1075
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,200
life.
Even things that I've kind of

1076
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,440
taken for granted as like I
assume to be good or true or

1077
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:19,080
like just the way things are is
not, but it is not black and

1078
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,320
white like I thought.
And it, it's hard.

1079
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,720
It's hard.
It's so hard because you know,

1080
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,320
you have a tendency towards
that, you know, towards that

1081
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,200
bias towards that extreme.
And you also know that turning

1082
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,280
your back on it is turning your
back on the way that you've

1083
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,920
thought about everything until
now your entire life.

1084
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,320
That's how I feel.
And I, I, I, I talked to my

1085
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,240
siblings about, because we used
to be like we are, but we used

1086
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,160
to be much close.
We very close to my grandparents

1087
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,440
who when they were, you know,
maybe 5-10 years ago were much

1088
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,640
more sharp.
And you can have a lot more

1089
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,800
intensive and philosophical
conversation and debates Judaism

1090
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,520
in Israel and Americas, American
Judaism and stuff like that.

1091
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,280
That's stuff that really matters
to 1st generation Holocaust

1092
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,680
survivors and people coming
from, you know, Eastern Europe.

1093
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:16,360
And, and it was, it was always
like this or that.

1094
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,560
And I understand where it came
from.

1095
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,680
But then now looking back ten
years later, and now looking

1096
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,920
back with my own family or with
my own life and my own

1097
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,840
experience, I'm like, things
aren't as this or that.

1098
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,840
And, and I'll tell my siblings,
we can't even fight with them

1099
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,160
because if you tell them that
this way is not that, that that

1100
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,960
means that everything that they
built since World War Two, since

1101
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,320
the Holocaust, this is not the
case.

1102
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,920
And they can't face that.
And I don't even know that we

1103
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,680
should make them face that.
I, I think that they've lived a

1104
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,920
great life.
They've provided, they've done

1105
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,080
their, their, their
responsibility to humanity,

1106
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,560
they've built a better world.
They've had kids, they've had a

1107
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,080
family, they've passed
everything down.

1108
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,440
They, they've done their job And
like, let them have this almost

1109
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,160
on one hand, but that doesn't
mean that for us that we should

1110
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,880
fall to this.
We should fall for that same

1111
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,720
kind of doctrine.
Yeah, absolutely.

1112
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,040
I think that you're you're
exactly right that that's just

1113
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,840
kind of the way that they
existed within their world.

1114
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,640
You know, that's what got them
through.

1115
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,840
These are coping strategies.
So, you know, I think they lived

1116
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,320
at a time where having
definitive answers for things

1117
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,560
was something that was defense
and also coping.

1118
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,640
Yeah, sure.
So it makes a lot of sense as to

1119
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,800
why that was so heavily utilized
at that time.

1120
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,600
Again, it's now maladaptive,
right, Because it just no longer

1121
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,200
suits you.
There are things in life that we

1122
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,960
have to definitively know, you
know how we feel about something

1123
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,600
where we're at, right?
Like there is still black and

1124
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,160
white.
We're not saying that that no

1125
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,760
longer exists anymore, right?
But what we are also saying is

1126
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,360
that the importance of all of
the things being done with

1127
00:58:54,360 --> 00:59:00,680
moderation is also very real.
And to allow for this Gray space

1128
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,000
sometimes means that you give
yourself the the patience or the

1129
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,400
willingness to accept that
things will not always be

1130
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,280
exactly your way.
And also, that's OK.

1131
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,400
Yeah, yeah.
That's a lot easier to have been

1132
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,120
done, by the way.
A lot easier to have been done.

1133
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,360
You know, absolutely, but.
How?

1134
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:21,600
How are you with?
That feeling.

1135
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:22,680
How are you with that in your
life?

1136
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,520
Personally I think I different
topic areas I struggle with it

1137
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,600
more than others.
For example, I'm also human.

1138
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,520
OK.
What areas do I?

1139
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,640
Struggle.
Do you catch yourself or?

1140
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,160
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

1141
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,440
And my response largely
irrational.

1142
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,320
OK.
Like, again, also a person you

1143
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:48,760
can test because I think it's
always a work in progress.

1144
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,360
You know, you come across a new
topic area and all of a sudden

1145
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,080
you're just fighting, you know,
going against the current and

1146
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,960
you don't really want to place
an amount of acceptance on this

1147
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,240
is just what reality looks like.
Yeah, right.

1148
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,640
But.
You could kind of fight against

1149
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,440
it all you want.
It doesn't mean that things are

1150
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,040
always going to go.
Your way and you end up hurting

1151
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,040
yourself more.
That's the other thing you

1152
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,240
notice you end up you end up
like what do I even need to do

1153
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,760
to this right?
Do this to myself.

1154
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,600
For right for what?
So, you know, I think that

1155
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,480
accepting sometimes this is,
this is OK, right?

1156
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,000
It doesn't look the way I want
it to.

1157
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,520
This person doesn't agree with
me as I wanted them to.

1158
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:30,200
It's OK, you know, I don't need
to force that upon them.

1159
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:31,800
They don't need to see things
how I see them.

1160
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,720
You know, I can.
I can do something and have the

1161
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,600
outcome be maybe different than
I thought I wanted it to be.

1162
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,000
And also, that's OK.
I think it's a big deal to

1163
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:43,560
actually say these words out
loud.

1164
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,880
There's a book I just gave,
actually.

1165
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,080
The guy did a podcast yesterday
called Chatter by Ethan Cross.

1166
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,240
He was on a humans podcast.
That's why I came to it by the

1167
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,400
book.
But one of the things that the

1168
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,240
premise of the book is that we
have that voice in our head and

1169
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,360
we can actually mold and shape
that voice.

1170
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,200
That's why, like when if you
ever see a kids talk out what

1171
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,240
they're doing, it's because
they're speaking out of process.

1172
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,040
That, as you get older becomes
that kind of chatter in our head

1173
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:18,000
and that, that, and we can also
continue to reframe those voices

1174
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,000
in our head.
But the, and, and it doesn't

1175
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,000
necessarily need to read through
talking, although talking is a

1176
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,720
very effective way of doing it.
And so I found that even since I

1177
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,960
started saying these kind of
things on conversations and

1178
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,080
podcasts and stuff, one thing,
for example, that I noticed

1179
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,400
that's very, you know, I mean,
I, I go to, you know, I, I, I, I

1180
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,240
pray three times a day.
And I sometimes when I'm going,

1181
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,080
when I'm going to synagogue, I
noticed that someone is praying

1182
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,400
for longer or shorter than me.
And then my initial reaction is

1183
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,840
to judge them based on like the
extent of their prayer.

1184
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,640
And I'm like, and, and, and, and
I, and I, and I, and I have a

1185
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,760
legit conversation in my head
every time this happens.

1186
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,720
I'm like, Oh God, who's this guy
thinking?

1187
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,960
And I'm like, who do you think
you are, you douche?

1188
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,320
You know, like, I have to keep
on going back and forth.

1189
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,160
Then like, like, what do you
know, what am I doing?

1190
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,440
But but until, but for years, I,
I didn't even have like that

1191
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:13,040
kind of like even though I knew
the concept to be true, it

1192
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,360
wasn't, it wasn't in my, the
forefront of my consciousness.

1193
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,080
It wasn't something that was
actively there.

1194
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,760
And I think that, and I also
think this is what the huge

1195
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,560
benefit of podcasts in general
has been and why they've become

1196
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:30,480
so ubiquitous in society is
because it's people saying the

1197
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,120
things and reinforcing healthy
ideas that that that can really

1198
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,480
make a lot of people's lives
better on a regular basis that

1199
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,080
you can kind of like bask in
like and over.

1200
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:41,920
By the way, unfortunately, you
know, it's a double, it's a

1201
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:43,640
double edged sword.
It's a tool just like anything

1202
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:45,200
else.
You can, you can, you know,

1203
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,840
surround yourself with the wrong
ideas too, and unhealthy ideas.

1204
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,640
But if you find the right ones
and you're like, and you're

1205
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,080
building good habits out of
that, you know, and you can

1206
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,440
usually how I feel like the
difference between like, I try

1207
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,440
to, I, I, I feel like everything
is either junk food or health or

1208
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,680
healthy food and like it should
and everything in life, you can

1209
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,680
have a relationship that's a
junk food relationship.

1210
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,440
You can have a relationship
that's a healthy relationship.

1211
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,560
You can have a, a business,
right?

1212
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,440
I was talking to, I had a big, I
posted on Twitter months ago

1213
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,040
about how, how I felt bad for
the Haktua girl because I was

1214
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:23,360
like, this poor girl does an
interview, you know, her life

1215
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,160
explodes.
All these deals over.

1216
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,640
Yeah, overnight marketing and
podcast deals and, and you get a

1217
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,040
manager and agent, everyone's
referencing you and and money

1218
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,320
pouring in and you're totally
not prepared to handle it.

1219
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,440
And then all of a sudden a
million people are telling you

1220
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,400
different things from different
perspectives and you make a

1221
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,000
mistake that publicly makes you
look like the worst person ever.

1222
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,200
And then the whole world hates
you within a month.

1223
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:50,720
So within the whole month,
you're not prepared for that.

1224
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,000
That's junk food to me.
That's the same thing as, you

1225
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,520
know, binging of that, you know,
a bag of chips or business or

1226
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,160
anything else.
And then you feel nauseous after

1227
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,600
and you're like, but if you go
through a business where you

1228
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,160
take five years to build up six
years, 10 years to build up a

1229
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,560
business and then success comes
and you're much more even headed

1230
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,440
about it because you're like, I
know what it took to get here.

1231
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,840
And I've, and I've been, I've
been eating carrots and

1232
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:15,520
vegetables and, and tilapia
exclusively tilapia for 100

1233
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:16,880
years.
And I don't care about the

1234
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,880
micronutrients and and I don't
care about bottom dwellers or

1235
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:27,320
anything like that then.
Things done in moderation are

1236
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,480
always best.
Yeah, absolutely.

1237
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,920
Toxic relationships.
There's no moderation in that.

1238
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:33,880
Yeah.
Yeah.

1239
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,200
Like love bombing.
It's a term that like a lot of

1240
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:37,520
people.
Use.

1241
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,040
I just heard you yesterday for
the first time, so.

1242
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,360
Trendy.
I was trendy, really.

1243
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,080
Shoot.
It's a very real term, OK?

1244
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,720
I'm not saying that it doesn't
come from the right place.

1245
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:50,360
OK, We do use that term.
But I think somebody caught on

1246
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,320
that we use that term and
thought it was cool and now

1247
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,800
everybody uses it.
OK, It's very real, but why is

1248
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,720
it so toxic?
Because it's done in an extreme.

1249
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:01,280
Yeah, right.
It's.

1250
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,240
Oh my God.
This person made me feel like

1251
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,320
I'm the only one on the planet
and they want to move in with

1252
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:08,920
me.
And they told me they love me.

1253
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,720
But when we talk about things
like this, this is everywhere in

1254
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,800
society, so it doesn't it's not
a surprise that this happens.

1255
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,640
Because we enable it.
Well, because it's convenient.

1256
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,000
You want what's?
Convenient and it's glamorized,

1257
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,400
right?
I was talking to, I was talking

1258
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,960
to someone the other day and
we're talking about how the like

1259
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:36,160
until now in history,
intelligence and knowledge has

1260
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:39,320
been of value, like one of the
most valuable tools that you can

1261
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:43,120
have.
And I think starting probably

1262
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,720
five years ago, but especially
today, autonomy and discipline

1263
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,320
are going to be what makes
what's going to separate someone

1264
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:54,240
from being successful or and
that's going to be the top

1265
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,720
class, the top class are going
to be.

1266
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:56,880
Even far between.
Correct.

1267
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,360
The people that choose the hard
path, that choose to take their

1268
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,880
time for something that have the
healthy relationships and most

1269
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,160
people are not going to be able
to, are not going to know how

1270
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:07,480
to.
They're going to just choose the

1271
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,320
convenient way the whole time
and they're going to keep on

1272
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,480
choosing junk food.
We have that choice of junk food

1273
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,960
or healthy food in every
capacity of life.

1274
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:19,160
Yeah, I think that in American
culture we have a an unhealthy

1275
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:25,320
relationship with this need for
instant gratification in kind of

1276
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,000
all of the things.
If there's hard work involved,

1277
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,560
we lean away from it.
And we try to figure out how to

1278
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:36,160
make it less hard work.
Efficiency, effectiveness, those

1279
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,240
should both be important, which
is something that we've strayed

1280
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,880
from.
Now we really only focus on

1281
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,080
efficiency.
Yeah, I think, yeah.

1282
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:50,400
And now you have, you know, this
this drive for kids to want to

1283
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:56,160
become influencers rather than,
you know, different kinds of

1284
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,280
careers.
Sure, sure.

1285
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,840
It's because it's glamorized,
glorified, definitely.

1286
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:07,160
And also it's it's just not
something that.

1287
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,800
You know, I feel like also it's
one of the few, call me crazy,

1288
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,680
it feels like it's one of the
few stable jobs that people are

1289
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,280
talking about.
Like AI is taking everything

1290
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,600
away from everyone, you know,
and I feel you know, and I know

1291
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,040
that the the answer that that
American children want to be

1292
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,680
influencer has been going on for
a lot longer than a is existed

1293
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,800
for sure, you know, and that's a
whole another conversation.

1294
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,040
But I think that in the last
couple of years, a lot of people

1295
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,360
are like, well, I don't even
know what I want to be when I I

1296
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,520
don't know what I'm going to.
I'm thinking about this now.

1297
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,760
I don't know what I'm sending,
what I'm going to send my kid to

1298
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,280
school for.
I don't know what he's going to

1299
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:46,520
learn at school that's going to
be effective in helping him,

1300
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,720
like in helping him in a way
that he can't learn to be a

1301
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,400
disciplined self starter that
learns everything he learned at

1302
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,800
school by yourself, by himself
anyway, Yeah.

1303
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,560
You know, well, the concept of
stability is kind of ever

1304
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,800
changing.
And if we don't acknowledge that

1305
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,560
and if we don't accept that, we
get left behind.

1306
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:09,200
Yeah, this, this idea of what we
think stability is supposed to

1307
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:13,080
look like, it's kind of archaic.
And if you don't stay with the

1308
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,000
times in some way, doesn't mean
you have to completely

1309
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,000
assimilate.
But if you don't accept it for

1310
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,240
what it is, you get left behind.
Yeah.

1311
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:23,399
Definitely.
Oh, what's that?

1312
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,439
So what do you what tools do you
use to manage your own mental

1313
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,359
health for your own life?
I use my husband.

1314
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:31,600
That's it every.
That's it.

1315
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:32,920
Every husband should be there
for.

1316
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:38,359
He is a wonderful support.
What do I use?

1317
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:39,840
Or what did you use before you
got married?

1318
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:41,680
Before you met?
Before you met guy?

1319
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:43,080
When did you meet guy?
How old are you?

1320
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,120
When?
Did I meet Guy almost five years

1321
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:46,479
ago?
4 1/2 years ago.

1322
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,600
What did I utilize?
I talk to my people.

1323
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,040
I talk things out.
Do you do you have a group of

1324
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,160
friends that you feel like you
could talk to and then you talk

1325
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,800
to your therapist as well or
Yeah.

1326
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:01,960
If.
Different topics you go to

1327
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,439
different.
People for for sure, for sure,

1328
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,880
as any smart person should.
You can't go to any one person

1329
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,160
for all of the things other than
your therapist.

1330
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,080
You can always go to them with
all of the things.

1331
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,600
And, and while I try to go to my
husband with all of the things,

1332
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,359
the truth is that he's not
supposed to be there for all of

1333
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:21,479
the things.
That's too much pressure to put

1334
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:27,319
on any person.
But I think that I seek benefit

1335
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:32,680
from different people depending
on topic area and also family

1336
01:09:33,319 --> 01:09:36,600
and also myself.
In terms, what do you do with?

1337
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,800
How do you by yourself?
I try very hard.

1338
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,359
It's not always successful, but
I try to talk things through

1339
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:45,479
with myself.
That's a great, it's a great

1340
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,960
tool.
It's a life skill.

1341
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,880
Doesn't mean I'm always good at
it, for the record, but I

1342
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,279
certainly try.
Yeah.

1343
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,800
You know the way that we.
You talk it out loud to

1344
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,040
yourself, or you write it out or
what do you do?

1345
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,080
Sometimes I talk about it out
loud, sometimes I'm just in my

1346
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,320
head, you know?
Which also isn't always great

1347
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,920
because that's how spiraling
thoughts really manifest into.

1348
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:09,840
Isn't it interesting how
thoughts work in your head

1349
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,080
versus once they come out of
your mouth?

1350
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,240
Yeah, I think it's one of the
reasons why I think therapy is

1351
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,000
so impactful, correct.
When you have to find the words

1352
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:24,120
to verbalize something, it's a
different level of understanding

1353
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,000
and conceptualization of how you
actually feel in order to

1354
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,680
produce it, right?
Sure.

1355
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,840
So to write something down, also
helpful, right?

1356
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,320
You have to figure out what it
is you want to, what words you

1357
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,000
want to use to say what you have
to say.

1358
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,360
Same thing with saying something
out loud, right?

1359
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,280
So it's a better understanding.
One of the one of the most

1360
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:47,840
valuable skills that I learned,
I learned one of my college, my

1361
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:53,440
college writing professor was
the was to be raw with your

1362
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:56,240
words in writing.
And like we like we live in a

1363
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,800
world that it's not encouraged
to be even to ourselves.

1364
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:01,600
You know, like no one else has
to see it.

1365
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,160
But like when you just say like,
I feel like a piece of shit

1366
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,760
today, you know, like I did
something today that like, you

1367
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,600
know, either I behaved this way
or I felt this way.

1368
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:15,440
And like just that honesty to
yourself that like even if you

1369
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:17,680
RIP it up and no one ever sees
and you throw it in the guard,

1370
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,360
you burn in and no one ever sees
it again.

1371
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,560
Like I feel like just that after
transmitting something from in

1372
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:29,240
here, either out your hands or
out your mouth enormously has

1373
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,480
helped at least me.
It's been an enormous tool and a

1374
01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:38,600
lot of times, either writing or
speaking these kind of things

1375
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,720
out, I'll often emerge with an
understanding that I'd even had

1376
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,120
before I started, before I
started talking or writing.

1377
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:47,120
Exactly.
Well, that's exactly the point,

1378
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:48,640
right?
Because you have to identify for

1379
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,800
yourself how you would even come
to explain what it is you're

1380
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,440
trying to say.
So that's absolutely impactful.

1381
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,800
Also, I think sometimes it's,
it's hard to understand your own

1382
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,640
thoughts.
You know, you can think things

1383
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,080
that are not real.
You do it all the time, all do,

1384
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,600
right.
But to take the thoughts and

1385
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,640
make them realities, to take the
thoughts and try to understand

1386
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,400
them.
You know, there's a, there's a

1387
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,400
lot of abstractness to all of
that.

1388
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:23,360
So I think that any of us, for
any and all of us, let's say,

1389
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:28,560
being real with ourselves, being
real with the people around us,

1390
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:34,480
humanizing ourselves, you know?
Dehumanize yourself like to keep

1391
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:37,280
yourself like either the same.
Hold yourself the same standard

1392
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:38,600
as you hold everyone else.
Yeah.

1393
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:44,440
And also moving away from the
perfectionism that we think we

1394
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:45,400
all need.
Yeah.

1395
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,760
I think that one of the things
that sets my practice apart from

1396
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:54,400
other practices that I've seen
is that I try very hard to focus

1397
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,600
on being relatable and talking
about reality and the

1398
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:03,240
difficulties that just exist for
kind of all of us in a way

1399
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,520
that's moved away from the
clinical, but it's still very

1400
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,360
helpful.
It's, it's rooted in the

1401
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,480
clinical, but it's kind of moved
away from it.

1402
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,160
And I think that that's where we
all find benefit, right?

1403
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,520
Because when you can be real
outwards, either towards your

1404
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:23,760
therapist or to yourself even,
right, that's when growth

1405
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,560
happens.
Yeah, Yeah.

1406
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,400
Do you think that people should
stay with the therapist forever?

1407
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:33,120
You think that you know, like,
what do you like, do you

1408
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,120
encourage your clients to just
keep on coming back or do you

1409
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,160
say like, oh, it looks like you
have the tools you need.

1410
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,720
It looks like you've been in a
good place, like come back to me

1411
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:43,320
when you need.
How do you approach that?

1412
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:44,720
How do different therapists
approach that?

1413
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,680
I.
Think there's a lot of different

1414
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:54,560
perceptions of that.
I don't believe that there's one

1415
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,480
that's right or wrong.
For any individual.

1416
01:13:57,480 --> 01:13:59,360
For any individual.
So you have to base it on the

1417
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:04,920
person, Yeah.
I think that a therapist should

1418
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,560
tread lightly on trying to
decide for any other person what

1419
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,280
is or is not therapeutic for
them.

1420
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:17,000
If I tell my client we've been
seeing each other for a year and

1421
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,920
I don't think it's therapeutic
for you to come here anymore, my

1422
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,960
client might say, but I just
feel like you hold me

1423
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,600
accountable and I just like
talking to you each.

1424
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,360
Weekend.
Do you get clients that fall for

1425
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,000
you?
I've spoken to, I've spoken to

1426
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:32,240
the therapist about this before.
Actually, I actually, I dated

1427
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,440
one.
I dated a therapist when I was,

1428
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:42,040
oh God, maybe 20 before, and she
would tell me all the time that,

1429
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:46,080
that, that, that patients or
clients would like confess their

1430
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,240
love to that.
Yeah.

1431
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,080
Like, because you probably
they're opening up and being

1432
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,000
honest and like, yeah.
You get that.

1433
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:55,280
I've never had that experience.
I did work in a homeless shelter

1434
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,400
for a short period of time and
that was different.

1435
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:04,000
That was a different experience.
I, I definitely had some

1436
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:10,240
uncomfortable encounters, let's
say at the shelter, yes, but no,

1437
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,000
not anymore.
And I, I would say that doesn't

1438
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:17,440
happen anymore because I, I'm
relatable, but I'm very

1439
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:23,440
professional and I draw a very
distinct line and the sessions

1440
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:26,680
not about me.
So I'm not I'm I'm showing up

1441
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:31,400
authentically to my clients
definitely, but I'm not bringing

1442
01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:33,880
all of me to the session.
Of course, of course.

1443
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,080
But I don't, I don't, you know,
but I don't think even takes you

1444
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,160
doing that.
I think that like most people,

1445
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:43,000
like there's a loneliness
epidemic and most people don't

1446
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,800
even have anyone they can talk
to, you know, So, you know, I

1447
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,240
mean, for, you know, anyone to
just sit across from someone

1448
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:52,920
that like for a year, for two
years, for five years and like

1449
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,560
be the more, more realtor than
they are to their own parents,

1450
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,800
girlfriend, husband, whatever.
That's why that extended

1451
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,880
relationship with a client can
still be of benefit to them.

1452
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,800
Yeah.
Well, yeah, if they handle it,

1453
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,480
if they, if they handle those,
you know the if they handle the

1454
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:12,360
way that it manifests
appropriately.

1455
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,240
Yeah, right, right, right.
As long as it's done

1456
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,520
professionally, yeah.
You know, I have clients that

1457
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,760
I've had for years and, you
know, I've met with them almost

1458
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:25,520
every week for years.
And I've done that because they

1459
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,240
find benefit absolutely from
these sessions.

1460
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,240
And while, you know, they might
tell you that they feel like

1461
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,720
they're friends with me, our
relationship is not one of a

1462
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:38,080
friendship.
Yeah, you know, and I know that

1463
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:39,720
the relationships look different
than.

1464
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,360
That used to be off putting to
me.

1465
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:46,600
So I've, I've never, I've gone
to therapy once as a kid when my

1466
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,120
in high school, my mom was
trying to, I had a very hard

1467
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:50,840
time in high school with test
taking.

1468
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,400
And no matter how much I would
study, no matter how hard I

1469
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,280
would, you know, work, no
matter, he knows how to take the

1470
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:57,960
test would come and I have a
whole brand to go blank.

1471
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:05,840
And, but other than that, I, I,
and the reason I haven't gone

1472
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:10,200
was because I have a very close,
I have a very healthy group of

1473
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,680
people that I have very healthy
relationships with that I feel

1474
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:18,480
that I've always been able to
kind of get what I, you know,

1475
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:20,720
what would be healthiest for me
out of these relationships.

1476
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:23,080
I have people I could turn to
for different things, you know,

1477
01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:25,400
and one of the things that used
to be off putting, although I

1478
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,200
kind of understand it a little
bit more now, One of the things

1479
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,240
that used to be off putting to
me that I could imagine being

1480
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,440
off putting to people is that
like we just described, this

1481
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,680
therapist isn't your friend, you
know?

1482
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,520
And like when you're opening up
to someone that much, I feel

1483
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,080
like people almost want someone
else to reciprocate, you know?

1484
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:44,680
And I feel like, you know, that
part of my hesitancy was that

1485
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,680
I'm going to sit across from
someone, they're going to know

1486
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:48,080
everything there is to know
about me.

1487
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,160
I'm going to feel invested in
this person because I am

1488
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,560
invested in this person and I'm
not going to know anything about

1489
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,400
that, you know, I'm not going
to, you know, and it's going to

1490
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,520
be 11 sided relationship.
And like, you know who likes

1491
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,240
that?
Well, ironically enough, that's

1492
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:01,760
what it's meant to be, right?
Because that's what I was told.

1493
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,400
You're not.
You're not paying me to don't

1494
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,160
hear about me, right?
You're paying for a session to

1495
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:11,520
work on you, right?
So the purpose of that session

1496
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,520
isn't to build a friendship.
The purpose of that session is

1497
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:17,640
for you to build a better
relationship with yourself,

1498
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,600
right?
Which is why that therapist and

1499
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,200
what they do personally and who
they are is kind of not

1500
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:28,400
relevant.
Right, so you can sit in front

1501
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,120
of a mirror and do the same
thing if it works.

1502
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,680
Yeah, I mean you won't
experience an.

1503
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,920
Individual feedback.
Perspective or feedback?

1504
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,480
Yeah, yeah, which is why it's of
limited benefit, but.

1505
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:40,760
It's where do you draw the line
between the feedback that you

1506
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:45,240
gave.
I don't disclose a whole lot

1507
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,760
about myself unless I think that
it's therapeutic for them.

1508
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:52,320
If it helps us to connect
further then.

1509
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,840
So you say like, oh I also have
that problem or like you say I

1510
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,120
relate to that or like what?
Do you?

1511
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:00,720
Yeah, I mean, I, I share
problems or issues less

1512
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,760
frequently because I don't, I
think that I can express empathy

1513
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:09,920
without disclosing reasoning why
I sit in the depths with them.

1514
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:15,080
And truthfully, it's it's not
about the fact that I've

1515
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:16,720
experienced the exact same
thing.

1516
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:18,120
So I don't need to relate in
those.

1517
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,440
Ways you don't need to help the
person feel like no.

1518
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:25,480
No, I think that what's more
helpful is to some, in some

1519
01:19:25,480 --> 01:19:29,760
cases, let's say I don't want to
generalize too much, but I think

1520
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:34,200
in more cases it's more helpful
to say it is, it's reasonable to

1521
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,600
feel this way, right?
And what can we do about it?

1522
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,640
Right.
Because if I just sit in the

1523
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:45,000
shit with you, we're not getting
out, so.

1524
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:49,000
You're more prompt.
You almost like keeping up a

1525
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:50,400
conversation.
You always keep almost like

1526
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:53,120
keeping the conversation going
so that it doesn't stop at,

1527
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:58,120
yeah, I mean spare station.
Yeah, I think, I think we have

1528
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:02,520
to stop long enough to process
the feelings, you know, but

1529
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,920
we're not staying there, right?
I think moderation, right.

1530
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:10,200
Do some processing of the
feelings and also talk about

1531
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:11,600
what you're going to do to get
yourself out.

1532
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,680
But it can't be only one or the
other.

1533
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:17,720
It has to be a combination of
both and to what extent.

1534
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,560
You know, 60407030, I don't
decide that.

1535
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:22,640
You do?
Yeah, sure.

1536
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,920
But I'll help you get to that,
yeah.

1537
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,840
Page that page that what's
what's an ideal setup

1538
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:33,320
professionally for therapist
that like, how do you know, how

1539
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,680
do you feel when you feel like
I've made it and like I'm where

1540
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:39,240
I want to be with my with my
career and my life?

1541
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:46,160
Yeah, I don't know an exact goal
that I have is your.

1542
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,440
Goal to be busy.
Is your goal to have X amount of

1543
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:50,920
zip client?
What's what's your?

1544
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,600
It's it's ever expanding, I
could say.

1545
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,680
So I don't have one specific
goal because it's shape shifts

1546
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:03,240
and it it just keeps evolving.
My caseload is full which is

1547
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:06,320
very cool to me.
That's crazy how what's

1548
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,400
considered a full caseload?
It varies person to person.

1549
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:15,800
I see a lot so I often hovering
around 30 sessions a week.

1550
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,840
Wow.
Gotcha, which is a lot and most

1551
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,160
therapists I know prefer less.
Please you still have to do

1552
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,360
notes and what other works
associated with the other than

1553
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,680
the session is billing like.
Being in touch, yeah, the

1554
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:33,000
billing stuff, you know, all of
the scheduling and organizing

1555
01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:37,600
and then for me at least, is
working on ways to continue

1556
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,760
expanding.
So more recently, within this

1557
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:44,000
year, I've hired some additional
clinicians, yes.

1558
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:46,600
Congratulations, that's so
exciting.

1559
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:47,720
Thank you.
Yeah.

1560
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,120
Wow.
And I've really loved it.

1561
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:50,960
Really.
Really.

1562
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:51,960
Love it.
Do you love that because you

1563
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:53,760
have people to work with?
You love it because you could

1564
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,640
help more people you feel like?
Do you set the tone for what the

1565
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,360
clinicians, what type of like
clinic you're going to have?

1566
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:05,360
Yes, yes to all of the above.
Yes, that's such a phenomenal

1567
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:09,960
YEAH opportunity.
I love the idea of normalizing

1568
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,400
this type of therapy, therapy
like this, you know, more

1569
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,720
relatable, more real human
person to person.

1570
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,440
And so, yeah, when I'm hiring,
that's something that I keep in

1571
01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:25,640
mind is a therapist's ability to
offer this because I think

1572
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,040
that's so impactful.
So when I'm looking for

1573
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:33,080
somebody, that's certainly
something I'm looking for, but I

1574
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:38,240
also love having a sort of
mentorship with new clinicians

1575
01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:42,240
or additional clinicians.
And there's other things that

1576
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,800
I'm toying with the idea of
trying out different, you know,

1577
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,400
supervisory type roles.
Cool.

1578
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:51,160
Would you think about expanding
the type of therapy that you

1579
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,240
offer?
Like what do you think of, like

1580
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:56,560
music therapy or pet therapy or
especially in South Florida, I

1581
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,840
just told an ultrasound machine
to people that do dolphin

1582
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:00,560
therapy.
Amazing.

1583
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:01,120
Amazing.
Yeah.

1584
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,000
We went down there to meet them.
It's really, really cool.

1585
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,840
Yeah.
There's a lot of different forms

1586
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,720
of therapy.
I think that they're all useful

1587
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,600
and or beneficial.
Under your umbrella like have

1588
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,040
like.
It would be cool.

1589
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,720
Applications.
It would be cool, but I kind of

1590
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:22,960
feel like there's something to
be said about like when you go

1591
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,200
to a restaurant.
And they just make pizza and.

1592
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,160
They make pizza or or you go to
that restaurant and they're

1593
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:32,480
offering way too many things.
And you think, how could you be

1594
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:34,600
good at all of the things?
Correct, Right.

1595
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,800
You know, So I don't want to be
that.

1596
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,920
I also don't want to offer only
one thing.

1597
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,920
Yeah.
Well, it would be you, but

1598
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:43,360
that's so that's the benefit,
right?

1599
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:47,680
Like the benefit is that you got
your philosophy that's kind of

1600
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:49,880
introduced, that's
interconnected through

1601
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,480
everything.
And then you have different ways

1602
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:55,160
of manifesting your philosophy
and bringing them to and

1603
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:58,120
bringing them to fruition,
helping people in different ways

1604
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:01,120
that would speak to them get to
almost like the same kind of

1605
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:01,960
place.
Right.

1606
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,160
Yeah.
There's also different specialty

1607
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:07,440
areas, right?
So I work with some specific

1608
01:24:07,440 --> 01:24:09,000
things.
I work with high functioning

1609
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,120
people that want to optimize
under my umbrella.

1610
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,960
The clinicians that work with
me, you know, we'll see some

1611
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,240
type of variation of that.
People wanting to work on

1612
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:21,440
themselves, obviously, but
different trauma areas.

1613
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:24,400
I might have, you know, 1
clinician that focuses on

1614
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:26,040
trauma.
I might have another clinician

1615
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:29,800
that focuses on grief, right?
So I like to have the very cool.

1616
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:34,080
Day, right?
But in my own practice, my own

1617
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:39,360
caseload, I keep some variation
and I like to lean into what

1618
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,360
works.
I think it's a life skill so.

1619
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,000
Do people come to you and then
you'll pass them along to your

1620
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,320
colleagues?
Yeah.

1621
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,600
I think that XY and Z is better.
Is better for grief or better

1622
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:52,760
for?
I don't.

1623
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:56,160
I don't usually work with them
before passing them on, but when

1624
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,280
somebody approaches my practice,
I'll say based on what you

1625
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,320
described, this person is a good
fit.

1626
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:02,400
Cool.
Yeah.

1627
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,600
And my role is to grow their
caseloads as well.

1628
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:07,480
Do people do therapists take it
personally when people switch

1629
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,560
therapists?
I don't and in fact, when I

1630
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:15,120
start someone new within the 1st
5 minutes, I let them know we're

1631
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,600
going to do a consultation to
make sure it's the right fit.

1632
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,960
If for any reason it's not
either you don't like talking to

1633
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,800
me or the things you want to
discuss are not in my area of

1634
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,760
expertise, find someone who is.
So I personally don't take it.

1635
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:32,920
I, I do not take it personally,
but I think everybody's

1636
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:37,280
different on that.
I think the goal is for you to

1637
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:39,760
like your therapist and to get
benefit out of it.

1638
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,000
You can't get benefit if you
don't like your therapist.

1639
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,840
I know I have so many friends
that lie to their therapist.

1640
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:47,440
Like it's so stupid dude.
If you're not, if you're lying

1641
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:49,680
to your therapist, who you're
not lying to, you know, like,

1642
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:50,960
right.
Seriously.

1643
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:52,720
And then you just stay in that
neutral zone.

1644
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,000
Yeah, yeah.
And and that's like, and those

1645
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,280
are the same kind of examples of
people that if you send them to

1646
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,960
rehab would, you know, would be
out in a week and back at it,

1647
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:04,960
you know, exactly because you're
not, not there for it.

1648
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:08,160
Yeah, cool.
I think this is so much fun.

1649
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:12,200
I hope that I hope this
encourages you to to jump start

1650
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,240
your own.
And now that you got some some

1651
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,560
footage, this will be the
beginning of the next most

1652
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,400
successful podcast that'll very
quickly overtake mine because

1653
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:23,240
you'll have video and we'll see
we'll.

1654
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:24,960
See.
Don't take it.

1655
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:25,760
Up that much.
That's right.

1656
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:26,320
That's right.
It's hard.

1657
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,160
No hype, no hype.
I'm going to keep on doing what

1658
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:31,400
I'm doing, but you should
definitely, you should

1659
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,760
definitely do this.
I'm so excited for you to

1660
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:36,680
whatever is whatever is coming
up for you.

1661
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:41,400
It really seems like you really
have since you have a vision.

1662
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:47,560
And I mean, oh, do people feel
like they look up to you more

1663
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:49,320
because you went straight Like
you have all this private

1664
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:51,720
experience now that other people
have, you know, like most people

1665
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,880
don't have.
Maybe, maybe.

1666
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:56,880
I think there's just different
routes, you know, and I don't

1667
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,560
want to say that like going to
work at a clinic is the is the

1668
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:01,760
worst route.
I think they gain amazing

1669
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:03,720
experience people.
Like look at you and be like,

1670
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:05,840
wow, you've been in your own
practice for this amount of

1671
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,120
years and you're you know,
you've only been doing this for

1672
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,320
X amount of years and like.
Yeah, it's definitely different.

1673
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:11,000
It's definitely.
Not.

1674
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:14,600
That's cool, yeah.
But it was a struggle because of

1675
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,120
that.
But I'm at least proud to say

1676
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:18,200
that.
I think it's amazing.

1677
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:19,920
I think it's amazing.
I think you did great work.

1678
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:22,280
And then keep it up and we'll do
this again.

1679
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:23,920
I hope you awesome, beautiful
day.

1680
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:24,840
Of course.
Thanks for coming.

1681
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:25,400
Bye everyone.