Psychology Series 8: Marat Shpolyansky / Generational Trauma / Relationships / Discovering Passion

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together.

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We're live.
How are you, Mara?

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Thank you so much for making the
time to to talk with me today.

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Thank you for having me join, I
appreciate it.

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Yeah, Yeah, I was, I was really
excited to, I was really excited

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when I came across your profile,
a couple of things jumped out to

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me, but one of the primary ones
was the intergenerational trauma

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that you seem to have emphasized
for yourself and then, you know,

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or that you seem to talk about a
little bit yourself and that you

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practice helping individuals or
maybe even is it family units as

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well with, you know, dealing
with generational trauma.

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I mean, I think so, I think that
it, it started with family units

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initially.
And in my work, as I've gone,

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gone on to see clients and seen
the effect of that trauma in my,

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in my work, I've gone back and I
think honestly worked with, with

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my family, but it's played into
how I communicate with my

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family.
I think that's the, that's the

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key.
It's, it changes the

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communication.
If you can begin to understand

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why people communicate the way
they do, why they hurt each

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other and the way that they hurt
each other, mostly

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unconsciously.
So I think that that's, that's

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where it's played back in.
And I think that my work with

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clients has informed how I go
back into my family and and and

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communicate with them.
So you do, so you learn from,

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you learn from the work, and
then you take and apply it to

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your own life.
Absolutely.

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I mean, there's there's this
idea of heal or heal thyself,

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right?
If you're coming in to work with

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people you don't, you will only
get as far with those people as

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you have gotten with yourself
and your own work.

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I think that's very, it's very
important.

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What if you haven't worked on
yourself and you haven't done

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your own work?
You're not going to be able to

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reach in with the client and,
and help them like be, be a

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partner with them.
And, and I'm getting better.

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So, you know, they don't really
train you about

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intergenerational trauma in
school.

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It's not something that you, you
know, you go through some module

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about that.
It's something that you

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experience, you know, in, in
your work with clientele, you

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begin to realize, OK, well, what
were the conditions that you

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grew up in?
What was the ecology of your

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family when you were a kid?
Right.

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I, I can bring examples from my
own family.

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And I think that that's that's
where I think that's it's most

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pertinent and I think it's most
real for me at least.

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Would you mind sharing something
happen?

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Yeah, of course, of course.
So, so, you know, my mother was

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born in 1946, was right after
the Holocaust.

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My grandmother was evacuated
from Ukraine during the, the,

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the fascist bombings of Ukraine
in 1941.

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She at that time had a nine year
old, sorry, 7 year old daughter.

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They were placed in cattle cars
in Odessa, Ukraine.

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And you know, they were stuffed
in.

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And because the, the, the Nazis
had crossed the border and

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basically during a pact with the
Soviet Union, the Soviet Union

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had no idea there would be a war
with, with the Nazi Germany.

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So it was all of a sudden people
were at the beach and then there

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were bombings and airplanes
were.

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Flying.
No way.

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So that there was no, you know,
there was no war like a

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designation of war between the
countries.

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The IT just happened.
Yeah, the, the, the Soviets

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actually had made a pact with
the Germans dividing Poland and

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plant.
They basically assume that the

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Nazis would, you know, conquer
part of Europe and they would

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capture, you know, part of
Poland and that would be the end

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of it.
But they reneged on their pact

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and they attacked so Union and
they attacked right into Belarus

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and Ukraine.
And in those very first days of

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war, people were not prepared.
People were at the beach, you

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know, relaxing with their kids.
And so all of a sudden there's a

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war.
So she got packed into a cattle

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car, you know, no, no
possessions, nothing really.

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They were, they were dressed in
summer clothing along with her,

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her mother and her sister.
And they get shipped off on

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cattle cars across Ukraine,
through Crimea and then on to

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Uzbekistan.
They were, they were kind of

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refugees in Uzbekistan
throughout the war.

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But on that cattle car, her
daughter got crushed to death.

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And so she had to be the, you
know, where the train would stop

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somewhere and she was buried in
a mass grave along with other

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people that had died on the
train.

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And that was the end of it.
And then just pack up and you,

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you keep going a few minutes
later.

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So if you imagine the, the
emotional damage that's caused

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by that, having a 7 year old
child that you, that dies, you

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buried on the side of a, of a,
of a train track.

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And then you, you continue
going.

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That doesn't just go away.
There's no therapist on the

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train.
And so my mother was born right

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after the, the war.
And one has to imagine that when

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she was born, my grandmother,
who was not only still grieving

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the death of her daughter and
also, and my assumption is that

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she had a very hard time
connecting with this new child

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because she was probably still
in grief.

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And she she was also afraid.
What if I lose this daughter?

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Like, how do I connect with this
child?

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And so my mother really grew up
in a relationship with a mother

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that was very strained on, on
the one hand, cold and the other

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hand very enmeshed.
And those were the conditions of

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her early childhood.
So now she ends up having a

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child.
Well, when she has a child, her

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conceptualization of what a
mother is, how a mother loves,

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how a mother holds, it's not the
same as one would have today in

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in our world.
And that then gets carried on

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into the next generation, right?
So now I'm born now many years

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later, right?
But now, now I'm born.

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So now I have a certain
relationship and understanding

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of, of, of connecting with a
child.

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And so the question is, do I
continue that forward or do I

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break that cycle?
And usually what, what I, I see

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in practice is that when people
come in, they're kind of being

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called forward in their, in
their line, in their lineage to

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stop some cycle of recurring
trauma.

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And that's sort of where my work
begins with them.

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Wow, wow, I got I got so I got
so much to to to say and ask

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about or follow up with.
One thing that I that, that I,

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you know, from my own experience
that I think, and I would love

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to just hear what your thoughts
are in this, within this context

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to this perspective, is my
grandfather was very, my dad's

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father was very tough on my
father in the typical, you know,

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I guess, I mean, my grandfather,
I guess is in his early 90s now.

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So, you know, my dad was growing
up in the 80s with a typical,

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you know, 40s dad, I guess.
And, and then, you know, and he

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went out of his way the rest of
his life to specifically not be

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like that, you know, and so he
became very anti, you call it

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anti authoritarian or anti hands
on.

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And, you know, and he basically
just wanted whatever made us

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happy.
And he didn't really have too

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much of A preference.
And if he did, he'd generally

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keep it to himself and try to do
everything the opposite of what

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his dad did.
And I, I mean, he definitely

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succeeded in that, you know, and
then, and then, you know, 25

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years later, I'm saying, or 30
years later, I'm standing around

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and I'm saying, I wish that I
was, you know, held a little bit

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more accountable in my life
because I would have loved for

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something, you know, I would
have loved to have a heads up

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that, you know, that amount of
discipline or work that it

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takes.
And then I'm going to just, and

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then, and so you kind of have
the same type of it's, it's

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another cycle, but it's a cycle
of a swinging pendulum, if that

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makes sense, you know, from one
end to the next.

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And is that, is that something
that, is there a, would you,

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would you, if I was sitting down
and explaining this to you, how

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would you go about trying to
resolve that?

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Unless you just say that's what
life is and that's what nature

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is and that's what families are.
And the best you could do is be

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conscious.
Or is there an underlying, you

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know, symptom, I guess cause and
the way that they manifest is

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just symptoms.
So it doesn't make a difference

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whether you're being hands on or
hands off.

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There's a, you know, there's a
problem that's underneath it

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that's causing you to be too
much of one or the other.

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And that's what that's what it
is.

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I think OK, so I, I think the
answer is yes and yes.

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So the, the, the keyword here is
balance, right?

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So your grandfather again, we
can use this word, I like this

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word ecology, like the ecology
that created a condition in

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which your grandfather
micromanaged to became

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authoritarian, like he, he, that
there may have been a lack of

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safety somewhere in your
grandfather's life.

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And So what does he do right?
He exerts just overwhelming

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efforts to control everything in
the environment or because he,

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he does not want to be in a, in
a situation where he is unsafe

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again, nor does he want his
children to be unsafe again.

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So he creates all of these
structures and those structures

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are suffocating.
So then your father comes along,

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he notices all of that.
And then he he said, well,

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that's absolutely devastated me.
I'm going to be the opposite of

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that.
The pendulum swings in the

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opposite direction.
The answer is somewhere in the

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middle, right?
Like we need as children, we do

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need structure.
We don't need suffocation.

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We don't need enmeshment.
We don't need a situation where

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where we have no breathing room
and then we cannot develop into

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the authentic version of
ourselves.

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We end up having having to
become whatever version our

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parents squeeze out of us,
right.

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So the answer is somewhere in
the middle.

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And now you have the benefit of
seeing both sides of the

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opposite ends of the swing.
And you say to yourself, my son,

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my daughter needs structure, but
she doesn't need suffocation.

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She can be safe and held without
being smothered, right?

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So this is, this is how you
break that cycle.

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You, what you end up, what you
end up sharing with her, what

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you end up giving her is a sense
that she can be herself.

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And yet there is a foundation
that she can stand on.

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She's not standing on sand,
right?

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And, and, and I think that's,
that's the key to developing a

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healthy psyche.
And, and then one in which, as

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she moves forward with her own
children, she will be reminded

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of the fact that that this is
how I was raised and I'm healthy

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and I and I and I'm functional
and I'm, I'm myself.

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I'm, I'm true to myself.
I want my kids to have that

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meaning.
I should raise them in the the

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flavor of how I was raised and
that that perpetuates a more

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positive cycle, I believe.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

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Which is what I guess we're
ultimately hoping for.

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I think I, I mean, I think that
there's a lot more.

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I mean, I, I think I'm certain
that there's a lot more

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conscious.
I think people are.

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And maybe it's just what I've
seen in my circle, but I've

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definitely seen that a tendency
in the last couple of years for

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people to start looking more
inwardly than I've ever

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experienced before.
And I don't know if it's, you

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know, due to a certain point in
my life that I'm, that I'm

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arriving to, you know, the, I
guess, more mature adult years

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as, as you know, as you start
taking on more responsibilities,

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late 20s, early 30s.
But I've been saying, I mean,

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and it's, it's really, it's it,
it, it makes me feel really

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hopeful because, you know, I
mean, on one hand, they're the

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kind of people where you talk to
them and it sounds like they

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haven't really put much thought
into who they were since, you

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know, since you saw them last in
high school or college and it's

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been a decade or two, you know,
and then there's the people that

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you talk to.
You could see they're really

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being very, they're really
self-conscious and they're on

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this kind of, you know, journey
towards themselves.

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And I think it's, you know, I
think it you there used to be a

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certain stigma to that, the same
way there used to be stigma to

223
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therapy and stigma to mental
health.

224
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That hope is just kind of
starting to drift away.

225
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,560
Yeah.
I mean, they're the awareness

226
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:11,240
today and how how we are moving
towards being more in tune with

227
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ourselves.
I think it's far more profound

228
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:19,600
than it was 20-30 years ago.
Without doubt, there is an

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intentionality to be right with
yourself and also to look at at

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your behaviour.
That being said, I think it's

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still a fairly small number of
people in reference to the

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general public because I, I get
a fair number of clients who,

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00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,640
you know, people that bring in
their kids and I'll meet with

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00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,480
the kids.
And almost certainly when I see

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children in the office, you
know, I want to see the parents.

236
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When I see the parents, I I
begin to understand the kids.

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Like everything makes sense.
Once I see the parents, it's

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it's, it's inevitable.
I feel the same way with my high

239
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,760
school students.
It's crazy.

240
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,520
I love the parent teacher night
because I meet the parents and

241
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,520
I'm like Oh my God everything
just make everything makes sense

242
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,680
now.
Like this clicks too good and.

243
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,760
And, and, and, and it's
interesting because those

244
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,960
parents, they, they, there's no
awareness or there's very little

245
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,320
awareness.
Like they, they don't see the

246
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,040
interplay of their behaviors and
how they cast a shadow onto

247
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,360
their kids.
And then the kid, the kids have

248
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,120
these, you know, behaviors or
these symptoms, depression,

249
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,720
anxiety, ticks, panic, whatever
it may be.

250
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,760
But they don't see how the
ecology of the, of the kids life

251
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,200
is perpetuating it.
I'm not saying the parents are

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00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:45,240
the cause of it, but many times
the parents, because they, they

253
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,440
haven't done their own work.
What's that?

254
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,040
I, I would, I, I, I picture it
almost like they set the stage

255
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,840
and you can, you know, and you
can do what you want within the

256
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,960
stage, but you know, you have a
lot of surroundings that are

257
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,040
accessible to you that you know,
that you're not necessarily

258
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,120
choosing, but are just, you
know, kind of.

259
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,720
You think the other the other
set the stage or they light the

260
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,520
stage on fire.
No, they're going to pour

261
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,520
gasoline on it like they do
little to, they do little to

262
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,040
soothe the, the issues that come
up because they, they themselves

263
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,920
are not soothed.
They, they themselves are, have

264
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,680
not worked through something.
And it goes back to that same

265
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,880
generational trauma situation,
right where we're back to that,

266
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,360
that conversation.
So whenever, whenever I have a,

267
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,000
a kid come in by default, I'm
almost always going to send that

268
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,520
family into family therapy
because something is happening

269
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,800
there.
And and I see this over and over

270
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,080
and over again.
That's really, really

271
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,400
interesting.
So you're saying when a kid

272
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,840
comes in, it's generally because
there needs to be bigger picture

273
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,040
work that needs to be done?
Not just, you know, this kid has

274
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,720
ADD and he's sitting, he has a
hard time in 3rd grade math

275
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,480
class or whatever.
Yeah.

276
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,840
I mean, there's, there's, it's
kind of systems work or there's

277
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,760
something happening in the
system.

278
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,240
And if the system starts to
change, things will change in

279
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,240
the environment, Things will
change and that may ease things.

280
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,680
Does that mean that every kid
that that has ADHD has some of a

281
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,000
problematic family environment?
Not necessarily, but we may not

282
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,280
need to rush to medication, we
may not need to, to rush to

283
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,400
certain things.
If certain things in the

284
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,960
environment can be changed, you
know, behaviorally adapting and

285
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,480
seeing what's happening in the
family that a lot of times

286
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,440
that's, that is so helpful And,
and it changes dynamics because

287
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:35,760
many times there are
comorbidities, right?

288
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,880
It's not just ADHD, it's ADHD
and then there's anxiety or

289
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,800
there's ADHD and then there's
some kind of like impulse issues

290
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,680
or, or anger issues or
depression or whatever, whatever

291
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,480
the mood issues might be,
something else is at play.

292
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,440
And so if we can tone that down,
if we can resolve that, then we

293
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,200
can look at the ADHD and see
what's really needed here.

294
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,440
So I, I, I rarely rush to
medication and people come in

295
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,000
the first, you know, I think my
kid needs, you know, Adderall or

296
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,800
my kid needs Ritalin or
whatever.

297
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,680
And I'm like, wow, we're, we're
on a jump in the gun on that.

298
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,560
Let's let's just figure out
what's happening here and let's

299
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,920
first see if we can help this
child to to navigate their life

300
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,280
a little bit without rushing to
give them medication.

301
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,240
So what are what are So what
would be, you know, a kid comes

302
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,319
in and a parent comes in, brings
a kid in and they're in 8th

303
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:25,280
grade.
They're having a hard time.

304
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,240
You know, they, they say they
have AD they want Ritalin or

305
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,360
they want, you know, whatever.
And what are some things that

306
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,000
you would do or tell the parents
or practices to that that that

307
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:42,440
that would what would what
happens that causes the change

308
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,720
that caused the kid to, I guess,
manage it a little better?

309
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,640
And what's happening that allows
it to happen without medication

310
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,160
is that is that question, is
that, is that clear?

311
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:57,520
Yeah.
I mean, I think what you're

312
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,200
saying is what's happening in
the environment that needs to

313
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,920
change that would that will
maybe help the kid without.

314
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,320
Yeah, yeah.
Because I mean, we're kind of, I

315
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,680
feel like we're used to just
like saying, oh, this kid has,

316
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,640
you know, some kind of problem,
you know, issue.

317
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,760
It's a learning disability, it's
a challenge, it's whatever it

318
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,440
is.
And there's just nothing that

319
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,360
can be do nothing that can be
done about it, you know?

320
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,560
But I guess I, you know, we're
saying that that's not correct,

321
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,400
right?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I really

322
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,840
firmly believe that when a child
comes in, I want to talk to that

323
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,000
child.
I want to understand, like,

324
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,800
what's their emotional state?
What are, what are they going

325
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,480
through?
And it's hard sometimes because

326
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,200
for kids to share, especially if
they're going through something

327
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,680
they have, you have to build
rapport.

328
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,480
You have to, there has to be a
sense of trust between you and

329
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,040
the kid that they, they know
that they can talk to you.

330
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,560
And a lot of times you know,
they can't, they haven't talked

331
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,760
to their parents or, or
something's happening at school.

332
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,160
There might be bullying
involved.

333
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,960
There are so many complicated
factors that the dynamics of, of

334
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,600
being a, a young person today,
it's very different than the

335
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,360
dynamics of being a young person
when I was a kid, right?

336
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,440
There's just a lot more.
Absolutely.

337
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,960
I mean, we, we can, we can dive
into sort of my feelings about

338
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,680
social media and about what I've
seen it do to kids in these last

339
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,160
maybe 10 years.
But there are a lot of things at

340
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,160
play.
And so I'm going to have several

341
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,000
meetings with the kid, the
parents to understand what is

342
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,080
happening here.
You know, a lot of times with,

343
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,960
with children, schools these
days are much more geared

344
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,760
towards identifying kids that
are struggling and they will

345
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,680
have them tested.
So a lot of times I will, I will

346
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,440
get reports already from the
school, other school

347
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,080
psychologists or outside
psychologists that have met with

348
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,680
the teachers, met with the
parents, met with the student,

349
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,400
have gone to the school, have
done testing.

350
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,280
There's a lot of work that's
been put in before the kid will

351
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,960
come to me.
And now we're looking to see how

352
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,400
can we best support this child
because they've been identified

353
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,320
as having ADHD.
So then I'm going to look at

354
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:11,640
what other factors are at play.
Are there, you know, mood

355
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,720
issues?
There's, and so many times there

356
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,600
are, are there are there any
kind of anxiety issues?

357
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,000
Because you know, when a kid is
anxious, when a kid is panicked,

358
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,480
guess what?
They're not paying attention.

359
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,640
They're in their own head.
There's negative self talk,

360
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,360
They're, they're, they're,
they're, they're dissociated

361
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,920
sometimes.
And so it appears like this kid

362
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,160
is not paying attention, but
this kid is actually paying

363
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,800
attention to everything that's
happening inside of them.

364
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,840
And so that needs to be
addressed.

365
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,440
And so that's kind of that's,
it's a complicated process.

366
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,840
It's not just A1 size fits all.
I, I need to see what is

367
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,640
happening.
And I really believe that this

368
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,720
environmental approach, that
that's how I've been trained and

369
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,600
that's, and, and it seems that
that it makes sense that we live

370
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,520
in systems and if those systems
are broken, we are going to be

371
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,640
broken as well.
And, and there's another part to

372
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,680
this and that is resilience.
So different kids, different

373
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,320
kinds of resilience, right?
Kids that grow up, they're able

374
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,600
to sort of they're, they feel
supported, they feel like they,

375
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,880
they have the wherewithal to get
through whatever it takes.

376
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,880
They have a positive attitude
about life.

377
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,880
They're going to navigate
something very differently than

378
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,640
a kid that feels that they're
less than a kid that feels that

379
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,880
they're not supported, a kid
that feels there's nowhere to

380
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,160
turn to for support.
And I've.

381
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,400
Noticed a different outcome.
I've noticed, I've noticed as a

382
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,760
high school teacher, because I
used to really, I was very, very

383
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,280
insecure until, until I was
about, you know, maybe 8/17/18

384
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,560
years old.
I, I, I had very little security

385
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,560
in myself and I was, you know,
and it helps me, I guess,

386
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,360
identify or, you know, I could
see similar, you know, kids with

387
00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:00,200
similar kind of expressions or,
you know, body behavior language

388
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,080
that you know, or tendencies
that, that I had.

389
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:10,600
And it is incredible how easy
and how easy it is to build a

390
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,280
kid up and actually give him a
little bit more of a sense of

391
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,640
self.
You know, I think that I think a

392
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,440
lot of times what I've seen in
the last just a couple of years

393
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,320
teaching, and I'm only doing it
for, you know, there's my 4th

394
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,920
year doing it.
But one thing I've seen

395
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:30,440
countless times is that by
telling a kid, I know you've got

396
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,600
more in you, you're, you know,
you're great and let's, I would

397
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,160
love to see it.
I want to work with you to bring

398
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520
it out.
They start to believe it very,

399
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,240
very quickly.
All they need to do is hear it a

400
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,840
lot of the times, you know, so a
lot of times I, I, I, I, I've

401
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560
noticed that it almost feels
like there's a lack of positive,

402
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,320
positive reinforcement.
And kids that do get that

403
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,000
probably could get, you know, a
stronger sense of resilience or

404
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,480
or will or determination, I
imagine, right.

405
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,440
One 100% and moreover also being
heard because a lot of times

406
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,720
what happens is parents initial
response or even sometimes

407
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,440
educators initial responses to
tell the kid what they should do

408
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,840
to get better.
Like if you did this, you're

409
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,400
going to do better.
And almost immediately it

410
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,480
doesn't matter what the kid is
going through.

411
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,440
They, they begin to sort of fawn
to, to, to the, to these

412
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,400
statements that are made.
So they, they, they, they put on

413
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,640
a happy face.
They try and like achieve some

414
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,240
things, but they're not really
being heard.

415
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,880
They're not really being, yeah,
their, their self concept is not

416
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,200
being developed.
It's just an imprint of whatever

417
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,480
they're being told laying on top
of them.

418
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,160
And so, yeah, absolutely.
I just, I just showed, I just

419
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,080
showed that my high school, my
MY11 class yesterday, the song

420
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,560
Father and Son by Cat Stevens.
And we were talking and the line

421
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,600
and I pulled up the lyrics while
we were talking, you know, while

422
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,440
we were listening.
And there's A and the line from

423
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,240
the moment I could talk, I was
ordered to listen, you know,

424
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,600
and, and, and everyone was able,
you know, felt immediately like,

425
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,080
whoa, you know, and how can I
try to explain?

426
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,720
When I do?
He turns away again, you know,

427
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:08,880
and it's always the same old
story.

428
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,880
And I was like, how many of you
guys have just felt like no

429
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,800
matter what you try to tell an
adult or your parent or, you

430
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,400
know, a teacher that like
whatever you say, they're not

431
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,240
hearing what you're saying, you
know, and they just want you to

432
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,840
hear what they're saying.
And I mean that I think that's

433
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,040
that that is that is the, you
know, that's, that's the pain

434
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,880
and challenges of being of being
a kid.

435
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,160
I really, I really believe in.
I think that's actually what

436
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,320
causes a lot of the amazing
creativity and self-expression

437
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,480
that usually comes as like a
quote UN quote defiance of that.

438
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,920
You know, that's why the youth
culture has always been so

439
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,960
creative and prominent because
it comes from a place of being.

440
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,200
You know, a lot of times they're
being shut down or ignored until

441
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,560
they just have to be heard and
explode into something, you

442
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,920
know, about creativity or and
sometimes disaster, you know, I

443
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,960
mean, there's a reason why the
27 Club exists and why so many

444
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,000
great artists die at such a
young age at. 100% yeah.

445
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,160
I agreed.
And I love, I love that you

446
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,080
brought Cat Stevens into the
class and, and, and had the kids

447
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,960
listen and identify with that.
It's like, it's like the

448
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,720
concepts and the issues are
timeless, right?

449
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,720
They just went on and on and on.
Yeah, they're just human.

450
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160
They're just.
Human as we were, yeah, as we

451
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,760
were talking, I was going to
sort of infuse another sort of

452
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,160
part of this genealogical or
not, but sort of this heritage,

453
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,680
right?
This Jewish heritage concept in

454
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,040
in that talking about resilience
with kids, right.

455
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,960
And how that develops.
And I can give you these two

456
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,160
small vignettes.
Like one of these vignettes is

457
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,640
from my my wife's family, her
similar stories.

458
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,840
She's from the same town as I
am, the same city as I'm from.

459
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,120
And during and during the war,
her grandfather, her

460
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,680
grandfather, her grandmother had
this romance.

461
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,520
They were in love with each
other and they had two children.

462
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,280
And then the war starts and in
the very first days of the war,

463
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,200
the the grandfather gets hung in
the middle of the city.

464
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,680
So he's he's killed.
And so the mother is in in shock

465
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,920
and they get they get evacuated
also to Uzbekistan with the

466
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,520
mother.
And these two children get

467
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,960
evacuated.
But the mother is very is a very

468
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,760
different kind of woman who
comes from a very strong Jewish

469
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,680
family with with long roots in
that area.

470
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,680
They've lived there for sort of
hundreds of years and a very

471
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,160
proud family.
So she, she gets with these kids

472
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:40,360
to his Becky stand and it's
almost like she sustains a joy

473
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:44,240
for life like that, that there
can be darkness, but you must

474
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,040
sustain a, a sense of light
inside of you, even in the

475
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,520
darkness.
And she raises these kids with

476
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,720
this understanding that no
matter what, you will persevere.

477
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,880
No matter how bad life is, you
can find joy in life.

478
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,080
You know, they, they end up
like, they're basically starving

479
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,200
in Uzbekistan, like they have no
money.

480
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,240
They have nobody that they know.
They're, they get through it.

481
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,560
The mother works on this in this
factory.

482
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,720
The these are two little kids.
They get back to Odessa after

483
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,480
the war and as so many Jewish
families that came back from

484
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,560
evacuation, the apartments that
they had lived in maybe for, you

485
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,800
know, decades or for more than
decades, for hundreds of years.

486
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,560
Those apartments are now
inhabited by Ukrainians and

487
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,960
Russians who have basically just
moved into the apartments that

488
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,360
were empty.
And, and they're told get the

489
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:33,800
hell out.
You don't, you know, these are,

490
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,920
this isn't your apartment
anymore.

491
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,000
And, and here you have this
mother with two little kids and

492
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,000
she's walking around the city
and trying to, you know, find

493
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,120
somewhere to go and ends up in a
basement.

494
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280
You know, there's a murky
basement with these two kids and

495
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,520
they live in this basement for
like almost a decade in, in a

496
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,760
basement in a, a subterranean
basement where it gets cold in,

497
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,760
in Ukraine.
It freezes there and, and, and,

498
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,000
and it's not a good life, but
the mother comes home from the

499
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,600
factory, She sings with the
kids.

500
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,440
She really, she, she sustains
that life for them.

501
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,080
And eventually she actually ends
up dying quite young.

502
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,840
But the kids grow up with an
understanding that that life

503
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,600
moves on and you must stay
positive.

504
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,080
And then my wife's mother, the
one that one of the children

505
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,720
that was in the story, ends up
basically giving my wife that

506
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,840
same sense of joy and optimism
in life.

507
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560
It's beautiful and.
No matter what she sustains that

508
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,240
optimism, right.
They eventually they immigrate

509
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,840
to United States, they make a
life for themselves here and my

510
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,120
wife and my wife was born in in
Ukraine, but but she she

511
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,200
sustains that sense that no
matter what we will make it.

512
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,080
And that was a very different
kind of woman and kind of

513
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,080
resilience then the resilience
that my mother gained from her

514
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,480
mother, who was broken by the
death of her daughter, who was

515
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,760
broken by the war.
Yeah.

516
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,240
And so it it's, it's it's so
powerful what we give our kids.

517
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:16,560
They can navigate through so, so
much darkness, if we can, can

518
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,640
infuse that light into their
lives.

519
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,760
And if we can't and they end up
sort of like later in life,

520
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,800
realizing that they don't want
to live their life in darkness,

521
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,000
then then, then we as adults,
you know, can move towards that

522
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,880
as well.
We can find a new way.

523
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,240
We can find a new kind of, of,
of motto or a new kind of a

524
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,800
mantra to live our life with.
And that's sort of where I come

525
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,000
in.
That's, that's, that's, that's

526
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,600
where I try and guide or at
least be a partner in that

527
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,240
process.
So that's kind of another story,

528
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:48,720
right?
We.

529
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:49,440
We.
Talk about the.

530
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,120
Trauma, the trauma of, of our
people and, and, and, and that's

531
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,920
just within the last, you know,
the last 100 years, it's like

532
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,160
7080 years.
It's pretty amazing.

533
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,560
Like in there have been so many
traumas for us, right?

534
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,240
There's a if you, if we, if we
really go back, there have been

535
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,640
so many traumas.
The stories are endless.

536
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,880
I, I'm, I'm, yeah.
I mean, I'm just there.

537
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,480
There's so many they choose
from.

538
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,320
It's like I, we, we, we need to
figure out what our topic is and

539
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,200
then I'm sure there's a story to
match.

540
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,840
That yeah, well, let's well,
let's keep on, let's keep on

541
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,560
going because I'm loving I I, I
think that I'm loving this and,

542
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,880
and all the anecdotes and I
actually, I actually think and

543
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,720
I'm and, and so and I'm curious
what your thoughts are on this,

544
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,000
especially, you know, with
introducing this notion in mind

545
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,320
that there that aside from
generational trauma, there's

546
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,000
there's got to be cultural
trauma, you know, I mean there's

547
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,560
got to be just.
And, you know, just the fact

548
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,760
that, you know, a group of
people and call any people, it

549
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,400
doesn't make, you know, it
doesn't have to be the Jews.

550
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440
It could be the Irish, it could
be, you know, it could be the

551
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,160
Africans, it could be the
Taiwanese.

552
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,400
It doesn't make a difference,
you know, but a group of people

553
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:08,000
that have that, that, that as a
society have suffered and the,

554
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,000
and there, and therefore the
decisions they make as as a

555
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:20,160
society and as a community bears
the weight of their psychology,

556
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,080
the group psychology, you know,
so like almost the psychology of

557
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,920
countries or, or, or large
entities, I would call it, you

558
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,200
know, because it's, I mean, it's
very, very clear when you just

559
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,600
look at the world that that is
what's causing a lot of the

560
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,320
conflict today is just
generational trauma between

561
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,880
nations that are just better
equipped to, to, to Duke things

562
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,280
out than two individuals might
be, you know, or two parents

563
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:50,120
might be or whatever it is.
It's much easier to Duke things

564
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,480
out than it is to actually sit
down, talk, heal, find, find a

565
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,000
way forward.
That's a yeah, because you're

566
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,720
doing it for, because you can't
do it for millions of people

567
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,640
that are part of your society
necessarily.

568
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800
Right.
I think that the cultural trauma

569
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,200
that that that frame to look
through is, is very interesting

570
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,480
For me.
This is small, another small

571
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,400
kind of anecdote.
I remember that that my wife's

572
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,600
uncle who lives in Germany,
right, he's Jewish, immigrated

573
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,640
from the Soviet Union to
Germany.

574
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,560
And he sat with me having dinner
one night and he said to me, you

575
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,880
know, that it's very important
for us, for us as people to not

576
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,200
stick our heads out.
It's, it's a Russian phrase,

577
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,000
Nivasova vaiset means don't
stand out right now.

578
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,440
I, I thought about that for a
very, very long time, that

579
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680
statement of don't stand out.
What, what, what, where that

580
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,840
comes from.
And it comes from this cultural

581
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,000
trauma.
It's this trauma of being a Jew,

582
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,640
right?
We don't live in our country.

583
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,200
We did not live in our country.
We live in the Soviet Union,

584
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,840
right?
It's different when you live in

585
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:04,400
Israel, but to live in another
country, to be the minority and

586
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,960
the minority that that very
frequently was not adored,

587
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,920
right?
Very frequently was a vilified

588
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,720
minority, right?
Because we what, what are our

589
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,600
values?
Our values are education,

590
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,760
family, right?
Like that, that kind of

591
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,440
strength.
So, so we send our kids to

592
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,320
school.
We value that art.

593
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,440
We, we tend to do well because
we, we excel at, at these things

594
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,680
that are hard, but they are
valuable to us as a culture.

595
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,080
And so, but to live in a country
like that, you don't want to

596
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,240
stand out because the one that
stands out gets his face beaten.

597
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,880
The one that stands out ends up
losing his job, the one that

598
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,960
stands out and might end up
getting killed.

599
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,520
And so it's an interesting
statement for me because it's

600
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,840
coming from one generation, a
much older generation to a

601
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,160
younger generation that has not
grown up up until a certain

602
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,160
point with anti-Semitism.
I, I really did not know what

603
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:03,000
anti-Semitism was, but he did,
he thought very clearly, right?

604
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,239
And so to the, the trauma that
he had had to have gone through

605
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,800
to live his life being meek,
right?

606
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Be meek, be small, be hidden.
That's the underlying, that's,

607
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,800
that's the communication from
him.

608
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,400
Don't stick your head out.
Be silent.

609
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,199
Very different from from how I
was raised, right?

610
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,520
What do you mean be proud?
Be Jewish.

611
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,480
Yeah.
Put your head out.

612
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:35,120
Right.
Look it up.

613
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,719
Look at all of the successes of
our people.

614
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Look what we have accomplished.
Look at this small country in

615
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,920
the desert that, that that has
grown and flourished into a a

616
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,840
first world nation, right?
Be proud of that.

617
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,560
It's it's, it's, it's like we in
some way again, my generation

618
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,960
was raised very different and
wow, what a slap in the face.

619
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,240
October 7th was right.
Right.

620
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,960
Well, and yeah, like yeah, and
and and and subsequent time

621
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,240
since then.
Oh, but I'm saying 100% like

622
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,400
that, that that's I'm just
saying that framework, what

623
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,680
happened on October 7th and what
followed, what a rude awakening

624
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,200
for so many people.
I think, you know, Jews, I meant

625
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,880
to say, yeah, even in my, in my,
in my groups, I have seen how

626
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:32,120
that sense of betrayal and that
sense of wow, maybe we really

627
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,160
shouldn't stick our neck out.
Maybe we move our head out.

628
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Maybe we maybe they were right.
Maybe things aren't as good as

629
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:44,120
we as we thought they were.
And, and, and and taking, taking

630
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,600
stock of that and then realizing
absolutely not.

631
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,960
We are not going to live our
lives that way.

632
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,040
We are not.
No one's going backwards.

633
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,960
The the only way is forward and
through.

634
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,480
So it's another interesting sort
of going back to this concept of

635
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,440
cultural trauma.
I think that that the whole

636
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,680
October 7th situation was so
traumatic and it was traumatic

637
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,160
because for so many people it
what we thought was not

638
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,000
accurate.
Like we were, we were living in

639
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,360
a bit of a delusion, it feels
like.

640
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,440
And now it's like now that we've
seen it, now that we've, now

641
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,600
that a light has shone upon that
was shined upon, that we

642
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,760
actually need to make the world
right with what our image was

643
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,320
like.
We, we now realize that there is

644
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,600
a, a job we're called to kind
of, we have a, we have a, an

645
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,120
important mission to make the
world right with, with how our

646
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,000
vision was.
And it must be that vision, but

647
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,400
it must be that the world is
improving that that that

648
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,960
anti-Semitism diminishes, not
increases.

649
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,800
So we have to now live our lives
that way.

650
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,040
And before we were kind of
sedated, we were, we were this

651
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,720
halcyonic idea of, of the world
being, you know, somewhat being

652
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,560
a friendly.
And now it seems less so.

653
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:12,160
Yeah, yeah, it's, I spend a lot
of time thinking about this and

654
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,600
one thing that I, and I don't
know why I even think this way,

655
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,560
but a lot of times I tend to,
when it comes to a conflict, I

656
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,760
tend to look inward a lot and
see, you know, what I would have

657
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,200
done to potentially 'cause, you
know, a problem.

658
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,880
And then, and then because I'm
usually tough myself and then I

659
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,400
would, and then I would give,
you know, I would give.

660
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,960
I mean, there are times where
you're even giving someone the

661
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,360
benefit of the doubt, like, you
know, behaviour doesn't, you

662
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,760
know, justify itself.
But one of the first things that

663
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,160
I do is kind of look in and be
like, am I acting in a way?

664
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,600
Am I, am I just being defensive
right now?

665
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Am I just acting like this
because I'm just being a jerk

666
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,440
about it?
And I'm like, because me on the

667
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,040
other end of it, or you know
what?

668
00:37:51,040 --> 00:38:01,800
I, what I care, but I think
that, you know, I, I don't know,

669
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,840
I don't know what to do with all
this.

670
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,880
I don't know what to I, I, I
haven't known what to do with

671
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:15,280
the last 2 1/2 years of, you
know, my Jewish and, you know,

672
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,560
my Jewish identity, my love for
Israel, my love for America, my

673
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,800
love for my love for people, you
know, and, and it just feels

674
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,040
like no matter what I do or what
I think or what, or who or what

675
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,360
I, or what I listen to or
anything that I, or anything,

676
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,960
anyone that I talk to,
everything kind of just ends up

677
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,520
going in circles.
So it's really, I don't really,

678
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,600
you know, and I think that all
this and a part of the reason I

679
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,760
think this happened is because
everything is so entangled in so

680
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,560
many different perspectives and
philosophies and histories and

681
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,160
different understandings of
things that I almost feel like

682
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,720
everyone can make a case from
every single, you know, side

683
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,160
that they're standing on about
everything that they do.

684
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,480
But then what you know, like,
OK, so now everyone has a case

685
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,160
and now what do we do?
Like we're still, we're still at

686
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,960
a stalemate, right?
So, so how do you, so how do we

687
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,880
move forward?
What do we do to move forward?

688
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,680
You know, and that's kind of
what I've been what I've been

689
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,200
stuck on.
And I don't really know, I don't

690
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:13,600
think anyone really knows to do
about it.

691
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,560
Or if they do, I haven't found
that.

692
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,360
I haven't found them yet.
Well, I mean, I think that this

693
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,080
is sort of the, the generational
impasse, right?

694
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,800
We've, we've, we've been, we've
been standing at a crossroads

695
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,720
here.
Somebody gains an inch, some,

696
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,440
another person gains an inch and
goes back and forth and back and

697
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,240
forth.
And it's been that way now for

698
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,800
decades, right?
The, the reality is that you

699
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,440
said it correctly.
Everyone can make a case from

700
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080
every side, right?
That's true.

701
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,440
There's no doubt about that.
It just depends on what side

702
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,480
you're standing on that, that,
that that narrative seems more

703
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,480
appropriate or more right,
depending on the side that

704
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:58,240
you're standing on.
And ultimately, I feel like the

705
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:02,680
people, and this isn't maybe
like even even a full answer,

706
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,680
but you know what?
There are people that are trying

707
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,560
to look at everything and say,
look, this is all true.

708
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,920
All the pain, all the suffering,
all of it, it's all true.

709
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,000
And yet we need to find a way
forward.

710
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,640
You know we're not going
anywhere, right?

711
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,840
Jews aren't going anywhere.
Palestinians aren't going

712
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,520
anywhere.
We're here.

713
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,360
Something has to give.
We have to find a way forward.

714
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,880
Because killing each other
endlessly till the end of time,

715
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,200
it's not a solution, right?
And and and.

716
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:39,800
You don't have you don't have an
appetite.

717
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,320
To know that there is.
Like the world doesn't have an

718
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,600
appetite.
The world doesn't have an

719
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,560
appetite for it, you know?
I mean we, we, you know.

720
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,560
I mean, every war ends, I mean.
Yeah, big everything does this

721
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,560
is this is this.
Is Protestants fought the

722
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,360
Catholics for you know what, 100
years, eventually, eventually

723
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,240
all wars end.
The question is, do we want to,

724
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,120
you know, do we want to keep
killing until, you know, another

725
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,680
100 years and then, and then
find a solution anyway, or do we

726
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,640
sit down and try and find a
solution?

727
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,720
It, it's, it's, it's very, it's,
it is so complicated.

728
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,360
But you know, reminds me of
that.

729
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,120
What's, what's the, the old
saying from the fiddler on the

730
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,600
roof?
I think if, if we all live our

731
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,280
lives as a eye for an eye, tooth
for a tooth, we're going to all

732
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,200
end up being.
Blind and toothless.

733
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,720
Yeah, we're going to all end up
blind and toothless, right?

734
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:34,440
So, so, so at some point, right,
And there are groups, I mean, I,

735
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,080
I'm aware of this, right?
There are groups that are

736
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,120
sitting down together and
they're figuring out how to

737
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,600
navigate this.
They're figuring out how do we

738
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,680
live with each other and not
against each other.

739
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,200
And I, and I don't have the
answer.

740
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,720
And I, and certainly I am, I am
just as susceptible to the

741
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,840
emotional swings of this, of
these last few years, right?

742
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,880
I, I, I, I am, I, I've
experienced the grief, the pain,

743
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,000
the anger, the sorrow, it's,
it's all moved through me.

744
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:11,240
I, I, you know, I participated
in the, in the Nova, you know.

745
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,320
The yeah, the museum, that's
the.

746
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,760
Yeah, but.
They, they, they, they did A at

747
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,280
Burning Man.
They did a Nova memorial tent.

748
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,760
And, and my wife and I, we were,
we were volunteers at that tent

749
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,360
and it was so incredibly moving.
It was so incredibly moving.

750
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,160
Can.
You tell me about that.

751
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,240
With all these people.
About that whole experience,

752
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,720
including that, can you tell me
about that whole experience

753
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:39,400
including Burning Man, just like
from the top?

754
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,320
Because that actually sounds
like an awesome story and I

755
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,360
would love to fill in context
for anyone that doesn't know,

756
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,560
you know, that's not familiar
with it.

757
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,240
Oh, yeah.
I, I, I, I mean, this is by far

758
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:52,120
one of the most, one of the
deepest and most meaningful

759
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,600
experiences of our, of our life.
You know, there was a Nova

760
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,040
festival in Israel, right?
It was the original attack when,

761
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,960
when, when the Palestinians
crossed the border and there was

762
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,680
this kind of side trans rave
happening in the desert.

763
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,080
It was, it was a, it was a rave
for peace and for, for unity,

764
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,680
actually.
And they attacked this festival.

765
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,240
They killed, raped, maimed.
It was a, it was a mass

766
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,600
insanity.
There was a moving museum

767
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,680
exhibit around the world that
moved with, which was

768
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:29,280
beautifully done as well, which
they sort of explained all of

769
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,920
it.
And they had, they had this

770
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,440
material, all of these artifacts
from the site.

771
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:40,000
Anyway, the the original
organizers of Nova decided to

772
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,640
bring the a copy of the tent
from the festival to Burning Man

773
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,520
and to set it up as a memorial
to the to the, the, the young

774
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,600
people that were killed.
Because Burning Man is this

775
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,760
amazing art and music event.
I don't want to call it a

776
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:57,880
festival.
It's not a festival.

777
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:05,280
It is a gathering of, of people
that kind of live the best of

778
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,440
humanity, try and exhibit the
best of humanity, the values of

779
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,680
humanity with no, with no
commodification, no, no money

780
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,440
exchanged.
And there's, there's beautiful

781
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,280
artwork, there's music, there's
just, it's, it's, it's an

782
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,960
amazing event.
There is nothing on the planet,

783
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,720
I think, quite like it.
And so the organizers gathered

784
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:30,000
money.
They brought this gigantic tent

785
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,000
to the desert.
They set up the tent.

786
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,200
They created these spiral
staircases and they lined the

787
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,800
staircases with wooden steps and
on each of the steps there was

788
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,800
an Angel, a cut out wooden Angel
with the name of one of the kids

789
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,280
that was.
Killed at the.

790
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,760
Festival and it was all lit up
and then and throughout the week

791
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,720
long festival they had these art
cars which which are these large

792
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,760
lit up cars, many of them have
music systems on them.

793
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,640
They would have them come and
they would they would create an

794
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,840
environment for people to dance
with these angels under the

795
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,280
tent.
And the, the organizers asked

796
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,080
for volunteers to, to stand
guard as guardians of the tent

797
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,920
and not so much guardians if
something bad would happen, but

798
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,520
to be there to, to talk to
people, to help share, to help

799
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,520
hug, to help support in whatever
way was necessary.

800
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,640
And these guardians stood
basically every day for seven

801
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,360
days, 24 hours a day in shift.
So there were, there were, you

802
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,080
know, I mean, there was like 4
to 6 guardians at this tent

803
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,440
throughout every night.
So basically protectors of the

804
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,280
tent.
And it was incredibly moving to,

805
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,080
to, to do one of those shifts
with my wife and some of our

806
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:57,040
friends because people came to,
you know, to talk to, to cry, to

807
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,400
listen to music, to, to bring
some kind of a, you know, small

808
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,280
artifact or something.
And we had so many people come.

809
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,040
We had this, we had this
gigantic group come in.

810
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,560
They were like Catholics or
something that had been at a, a

811
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,400
festival in the desert around
the same time as Nova and they

812
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:17,400
heard that it happened and they
were so moved and so like it was

813
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,000
so heavy for them that they all
came together and they wanted to

814
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,400
dance under the Nova fan, under
the Nova tent with all of these

815
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,000
spirits of the, of the, the lost
young people that that were at

816
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,680
the festival.
It was, I mean, it was

817
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:37,200
incredibly moving.
And the, the end of the, the

818
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,600
Nova experience there was the
last day, the Saturday of

819
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,400
Burning Man.
It was the day that the man is

820
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,560
burned.
There was a gigantic a sunrise

821
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,920
gathering.
There were thousands of people

822
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,400
and they brought these three art
cars to the sunrise and they had

823
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,320
this woman, her name is Scarlett
Delatorre.

824
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,200
She is a beautiful singer,
guitarist.

825
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,880
She sang Jewish prayers and
Jewish songs on one of these art

826
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,600
cars to all these people.
And they had a basically a

827
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,960
memorial like a service.
And then at the exact time that

828
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,320
the music stopped at Nova, So at
the, at the hour at which they

829
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,920
turned the music off because the
attack had started, the original

830
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,680
DJs that had been at Nova were
there at Burning Man, the ones

831
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,720
that survived.
And they started the music back

832
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,000
up and, and the whole crowd
started dancing.

833
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,360
It was just.
It was just.

834
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,440
It was insanity.
You, you.

835
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,960
People were crying.
You, you, you, you, you.

836
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:41,240
The energy of it, the intensity
of it, I mean, it was, it was

837
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:43,200
the best of us.
You know, that's, that's the

838
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,240
best way I can say it.
It was it was really the the

839
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,600
best of our people.
You think that?

840
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,560
Yeah.
I think that there's something

841
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,480
to something incredible to and I
think that it's something that

842
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,760
we kind of lost recently,
definitely during COVID, but I

843
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,960
think is so integral and that's
embodied group experiences.

844
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,320
And those embody group
experiences, whether it's

845
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,120
Burning Man or whether it's
going to a movie with 50 other

846
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,760
people or 100 other people and
laughing or crying together or

847
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,360
going to a baseball game or a
concert or anything like that.

848
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:27,720
Going to these embody group
experiences seem to amplify and

849
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:32,360
bring, seem to amplify, you
know, whatever, whatever you're

850
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:39,400
experiencing, you know, and, and
I, and I've been thinking a lot

851
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,960
about in general about what a
lot of today's problems are and

852
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,880
a lot of it is isolation and
loneliness.

853
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:51,480
And I wish that, you know, I
wish that there are ways to do

854
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:57,160
to encourage more, more of that
type of activity because I know

855
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,280
for my own sake.
And I've actually had this

856
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,600
experience recently, I moved to
my neighborhood in Hollywood,

857
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,120
FL, you know, a couple of years
back.

858
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,560
And I, you know, and there was,
and I became friends with a

859
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,600
group of other young dads who
has, you know, anywhere from

860
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,360
2:00 to 4:00 or five kids.
And you know, we hang out maybe

861
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,000
once or twice a week minimum,
even if it's for 20-30 minutes

862
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:25,160
at a time, you know, and it
just, you know, we just get

863
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,080
together.
If it's a tough week, you know,

864
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,320
we end up either laughing or
complaining or sharing or

865
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,560
whatever it is.
We hang out, we have a beer.

866
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,560
And you know, we go home before
anything, you know, before

867
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:35,960
anything.
It's crazier before, you know,

868
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,800
in case you miss any of our
responsibilities.

869
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,000
But you know, there's every
single person in the group,

870
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,000
their personal lives, their
family lives, their lives have

871
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,040
just gone like immeasurably
better just by talking, you

872
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,400
know, just by talking to them
that they just feel like

873
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,360
everything is better, You know,
And I, I really, really wish

874
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,400
that people would realize or I
guess that, you know, that there

875
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,960
would be more emphasis in
society on, on more group

876
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,840
activities like that, because I
think that we have these little

877
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,720
experiences.
And then like, even if you have

878
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,880
a thought and then if you say
the thought out loud, it changes

879
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,200
the way that you, you know, you
emotionally process it.

880
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,640
And then when you say it out
loud to a person or five people

881
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,920
or 100 people, or you share that
experience together, then it

882
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:24,000
just, the growth is exponential.
And it's, it almost feels like

883
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,480
that's been cut off from our
society.

884
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,080
I can't agree with you more.
I think it's you're totally

885
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,920
right.
I think that isolation is the

886
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,480
death of us.
We are at heart social animals,

887
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:41,560
right?
We don't live.

888
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:46,280
We're not, we're not.
We might think that we're

889
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,040
individualistic and we are, but
at the same time, we exist in

890
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,960
social groups.
And I think that something has

891
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,800
been lost.
And I think it's not just COVID.

892
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,720
You know, at one point in this
country, there were social

893
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:06,280
organizations, right?
The Lions, the, the, all the

894
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,280
social groups right there.
There were, there were church

895
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,280
groups, there were cultural
groups, there were the Shriners,

896
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,800
there were the people belonged
to organizations.

897
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,080
And it was a place for you to go
to have a beer, glass of wine,

898
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,680
to talk to have a dinner and a
weekend, right.

899
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,880
To some degree, the the church
and the synagogues that have

900
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,440
the, the Shabbats and the, and
the Sunday Masses where people

901
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,520
bring food.
Those are all conditions in

902
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,800
which we gather as a community
and community is one of the

903
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,480
fundamental pillars of mental
health.

904
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,840
And the the model that I was
trained in includes that meaning

905
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,240
like how is your relationship
with yourself?

906
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,800
How is your relationship with
your community?

907
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,400
And how is your relationship
with your purpose, your passion

908
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,440
and your creativity?
Like if, if those three things,

909
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:03,600
if you can answer great to those
three things, it's very unlikely

910
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:04,960
that you're going to be a
depressed person.

911
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,680
It's very unlikely that you're
going to be suffering from panic

912
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,720
attacks and anxiety.
So you said self focusing on

913
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,400
self.
Repeat the three It's self.

914
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,480
What is your community?
It's a.

915
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,240
Check in right.
This is a check in that, that,

916
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:24,280
that we do as a treatment team
in our, in our practice.

917
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,440
And, and the question is what is
your relationship or how is your

918
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,760
relationship with yourself?
How is your relationship with

919
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,400
your community?
That could be your family, your

920
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,280
parents, your, your wife, your,
your, your greater community.

921
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,400
And how is your relationship
with your purpose or your

922
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,480
creativity?
Those are the three questions.

923
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,800
If you can, if you can honestly
answer those questions and, and

924
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,000
feel that you are right with
those things, that they are

925
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,720
good, that you, that you are
connected well to yourself, that

926
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:52,560
you, you, you, you believe in
yourself.

927
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,720
You speak well to it, to
yourself, right?

928
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,040
If you have that connection
with, with the people around

929
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,040
you, they reflect your value
back at you, right?

930
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,320
You're not living in a vacuum.
People see you, appreciate you,

931
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,160
and you have a relationship with
a sense that there is meaning in

932
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,640
your life and what you do either
be it creativity, be it meaning

933
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,840
through the, the, the, what you
bring into the world.

934
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,560
It is very unlikely that you
were going to have a mental

935
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,320
health problem.
Does that mean it will never

936
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,560
happen?
Of course not, but it's very

937
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,440
unlikely.
Fascinating So.

938
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,600
It's it's crazy because it
sounds, it sounds simple.

939
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:35,720
Oh, is it?
I mean, how many people that you

940
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,760
know, if you ask them how is
your relationship with your

941
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,440
purpose?
Like are you, do you feel like

942
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,640
you're living your purpose and
living your creativity are gonna

943
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,680
tell you, yeah, absolutely.
I love my job or I love this.

944
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,080
I'm I'm doing the greatest.
Exactly.

945
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,440
Yeah, but I don't, I believe
that he's working.

946
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,680
You know, that comes down to
education, I think, doesn't it?

947
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,280
I mean, that comes down to
conditioning and, and education.

948
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,440
You know, I, I, I think we're, I
think a lot of people are taught

949
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,200
to stifle that kind of thing or
that there are bigger priorities

950
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,600
or values than those things.
And we feel like, you know, it

951
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:11,080
feels like we just experienced a
giant, you know, a giant

952
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,480
countrywide experiment.
And the answer is that, that,

953
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,240
you know, for mental health,
that, you know, that the pursuit

954
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:23,720
of, you know, money or status or
power or position over all else,

955
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:28,200
including passion, community and
relationships does not work.

956
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,960
And like you know, and I think
that.

957
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,520
Correct.
You know, but I don't think that

958
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,200
it's so I don't think that it's
necessarily hard to do.

959
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,160
I think we have to adjust the
way that we adjust our our

960
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:42,760
values.
And I think that's actually

961
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,600
probably a lot more easily done
than you realize.

962
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,080
Think about how, how, how few
people, how much fewer people

963
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,640
drink alcohol today than 5 or 10
years ago or, you know, have

964
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,600
limited their alcohol
consumption and, and, and you

965
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,880
know, and I mean, I know that a
huge part of that more.

966
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,040
Smoke cigarettes, for that
matter.

967
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,080
Or smoke cigarettes, right?
Or, or, or or trying to be

968
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,200
healthier in terms of the type
of processed foods they're

969
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,720
eating, right?
Like these cultural shifts,

970
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,480
even, it might not take over
completely yet or even ever.

971
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,600
But I mean, once it's in the
zeitgeist and once people are

972
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,240
aware of it, then and, and
especially, I think what's going

973
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:21,840
to be fascinating is as AI takes
away jobs or, you know, and as

974
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:27,000
you know, jobs kind of become
less and less hands on, people

975
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,280
are going to be forced to
confront these three things.

976
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,680
Your relationship with yourself,
your relationship with, you

977
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,640
know, your community or your
relationships otherwise, I guess

978
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,120
external ones, and then finally
your passions.

979
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,440
That's the, that's the thing
that we're actually kind of, I

980
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,040
feel like hurling towards.
And the scary thing is that a

981
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:43,480
lot of people don't even know
what to do with that.

982
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,800
Oh, A. 100% I mean, a lot of my,
a lot of my work, when people

983
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,000
come in to my office and they,
they meet with me, the treatment

984
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:02,520
plan that I write frequently,
it, it, it is essentially a, a

985
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,480
view into these three
directions.

986
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,600
Like that's, that's what I do.
I, I, I'm looking at how do I

987
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,600
realign with you, right?
How do I partner with you to

988
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,680
realign your relationship with
yourself, your relationship with

989
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:23,360
your community, and to stand
with you as you find your

990
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,080
purpose, meaning and passion or
creativity in life?

991
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,840
That that is the treatment plan.
It's not my treatment plan is

992
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,400
very rarely take two Prozacs and
call me in the morning.

993
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,840
That's that, that may be a, a
very small aspect of that

994
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,040
relationship with self.
Because if you're in darkness,

995
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,000
in a, in a state of such despair
that you cannot see beyond that,

996
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,360
then we are going to give you
something to try and help you

997
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,160
deal so that you can then look
at these three things in a more

998
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,600
rational way.
But that's usually the only

999
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,560
reason that I would give
medication, right?

1000
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,480
So I think that these three
pillars are fundamental.

1001
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:08,000
And I, I, and I truly believe,
like, I, I believe it's so much

1002
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,960
that I practice it with my wife
on a weekly basis.

1003
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,760
We have our, we have this
tradition.

1004
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,040
We do Sundays in the Jacuzzi
with our coffee.

1005
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:18,880
So we literally get into the
Jacuzzi.

1006
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,320
We have a small little Jacuzzi
outside of our backyard.

1007
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,080
We sit down with our, with our
like a cup of coffee and we ask

1008
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,280
each other these three questions
like, how is your relationship

1009
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:29,880
with yourself?
How is your relationship with

1010
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,640
your community?
How is your relationship with

1011
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,160
your, with your purpose?
And, and we talk.

1012
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,680
We, we, we have a, we have a
small little download, you know,

1013
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,120
it's, it's not an hour long
thing.

1014
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,840
It's like, you know, this has
been a tough week.

1015
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,120
I've, I've, I've been
struggling.

1016
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,320
It's, you know, I didn't
meditate this, this morning,

1017
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,360
yadda, yadda, yadda.
But I feel really great with my

1018
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:48,560
community.
Everybody is, you know,

1019
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,160
everybody's well, everybody's
happy, healthy.

1020
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,160
And I, I feel like they're, you
know, they're there for me.

1021
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,560
So it, it, it doesn't need to be
long, but, but to be able to

1022
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,320
discuss that and to, to check in
with each other, right?

1023
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,960
Like you check in with your
friends and that beer, right?

1024
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,360
That's, that's, that's that
check in.

1025
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,160
Doesn't need to be so
structured, But this just

1026
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,160
happens to work for us.
And, and I think it's, it's

1027
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,480
great because it, it is a, it's
a access point into how we're

1028
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,720
doing.
I mean, a lot of times we're,

1029
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,200
we're kind of pivoting out of
our, we're moving through our

1030
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,800
discussion very, very fluidly.
A lot of times when couples come

1031
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:27,080
in and I and I meet with them,
what I get is the sense that

1032
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:31,280
like their relationship, there's
no time for them.

1033
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,000
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of
course they discussed like, you

1034
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,880
know, the groceries and the car
payments and the this and they

1035
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,560
go to work and they go search
their parents or they they

1036
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,160
watch, watch the kids, but but
where is.

1037
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,360
They stop dating.
Relationship with each other.

1038
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,680
Right, they stop.
They stop dating and they start.

1039
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,360
They start the units.
Right.

1040
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,240
But, but, but the problem is
that all of a sudden you realize

1041
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,680
that you've you've you've poured
yourself 2 beautiful pairs of

1042
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,440
concrete shoes.
It's like, it's just, it's

1043
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,880
stifling.
Like you, you you never stop

1044
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,040
dating.
You never stop dating.

1045
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,760
That's the that's the secret of
a great relationship.

1046
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,320
You never stop dating.
You never stop having sex.

1047
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:14,960
You never stop.
You never stop.

1048
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,200
Yeah.
And and the night you do, it's

1049
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,080
like, it's like you.
Lose it or lose it in here, you

1050
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:22,080
lose.
Use it or lose it.

1051
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,160
Yeah, you got one sense. 100
percent, 100%.

1052
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,920
How can I ask, how do you get,
how do you help people find

1053
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:35,160
their passions?
Because I, I want to know for my

1054
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,720
own sake, but I also know that a
lot of people, you know,

1055
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,200
especially people that have kind
of been off put to this general

1056
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,760
notion or ideal, you know, for
the entire lives.

1057
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,560
And, you know, passions are
stupid and you have to have a

1058
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,360
career.
Or if your career, if you're

1059
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,280
going to have a career, it
doesn't have, you know, it's

1060
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,280
more important that you make
money than be something that

1061
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,080
you're passionate about and make
a little bit less money,

1062
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,320
whatever it is.
But how would you or even do

1063
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,440
something on the side?
How do you help someone identify

1064
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,960
a passion when they don't know
what their passions are?

1065
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,160
Yeah, Oh, I mean, it's, it's
actually the coolest part.

1066
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,560
It's the best part of the of, of
the profession.

1067
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:14,440
So, so, you know, first of all,
most, most people didn't grow up

1068
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,320
with hobbies or, or, or any kind
of pursuits.

1069
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,640
They've lost the connection to,
right?

1070
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:26,120
That the ability to understand
what it means to experience joy

1071
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,400
for the sake of joy, right?
Not joy for the sake of, I'm

1072
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,160
going to make money on the back
end of this, right?

1073
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,960
Like the question becomes, how
do you feel when you are doing

1074
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,760
this?
How are you feeling when you do

1075
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,080
this?
Well, you have to do things to

1076
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,600
know how you're going to feel.
So the most important thing, the

1077
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,800
number one factor to to be able
to help someone and, and, and

1078
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,920
sort of stand with them as they
find their passion, their

1079
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,520
creativity, whatever is a
willing candidate, right?

1080
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,440
So you need someone that says,
I'm going to do it.

1081
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,240
I'm going to go and I'm going to
do these things.

1082
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,240
I'm going to go take this class,
I'm going to go to this event,

1083
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,880
I'm going to go dancing.
Because if you don't have a

1084
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:15,880
partner, you cannot drag them.
You know, heels ground, ground

1085
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,160
into the ground and like, you
know, a kicking and screaming to

1086
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,880
some event or some course, you
need a willing candidate.

1087
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,040
And so the my first job is to
try and convince them of the

1088
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,560
importance of this, to find
something of meaning.

1089
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,320
So I had this client who came in
and his whole thing was he

1090
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,920
cannot find a good Jewish woman.
He's like, he was just

1091
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:39,840
struggling.
He'd, he'd gone to the

1092
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,320
matchmaker.
He did this, he did that, tried

1093
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,560
all these different things and
nothing was working.

1094
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,560
And I said, you know, how about
you just go and do something you

1095
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:54,480
enjoy doing and in the process
of enjoyment you might find

1096
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,280
someone also enjoys.
Yes, that's how I make friends.

1097
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:00,240
By the way, What?
Does he do?

1098
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,800
Because, you know, I've always,
yeah, exactly.

1099
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:08,400
He's like, you know, I've always
wanted to take a pottery class.

1100
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,280
If you saw this guy, you would
be like, this is, this is not a

1101
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,280
person that that is going to
take a pottery class.

1102
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,000
The guy is huge, just like
muscular.

1103
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,480
He works out.
I've always wanted to take a

1104
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,240
pottery class, like fantastic,
you know, finally, he goes to

1105
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,360
pottery class in Brentwood.
He's the only guy amongst 12

1106
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,920
women in the pottery class.
He comes back and he says I'm

1107
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,800
never going again.
He goes, I'm the only guy in the

1108
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,560
thing.
I feel so stupid.

1109
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:41,600
I said, tell me how you felt
when you put your hands in the

1110
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,840
clay.
I I don't care about the people

1111
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,320
there.
I don't care about the building.

1112
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,320
I want to just know.
Can you please go back to the

1113
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,080
moment you put your hands in the
clay and you started to, you

1114
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,600
know, the wheel started turning
or whatever you were doing and

1115
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,440
you started working.
What did you feel?

1116
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:58,600
He goes.
You know, I laughed a little

1117
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,760
bit.
Oh, that's interesting.

1118
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,120
I want to hear about this laugh.
Tell me more about that.

1119
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,280
What did that laugh feel like?
And do you ever just laugh for

1120
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,440
the sake of laughing because it
comes from inside of you?

1121
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,560
Not because, because somebody,
you know, told you a joke or not

1122
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,920
because you made an extra buck,
but just you laugh because

1123
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:22,840
something ignited inside of you.
That's where we find our

1124
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,760
passion.
That is the, that is the, the

1125
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,120
inner clue that you are, you
know, you've, you've, you've

1126
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,400
reached out and you grabbed
something that has some meaning

1127
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,440
for you.
Well, guess what?

1128
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,920
He goes back to the class and
guess what?

1129
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,080
There happens to be a Jewish
girl in that class who is single

1130
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:43,960
and they start seeing each
other.

1131
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,040
So you see it's a he didn't go
there to find, you know,

1132
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:53,240
necessarily to find the woman.
He went there because he wanted

1133
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,280
to try this thing that he
thought he might like.

1134
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,920
And in doing something that he
liked, he suddenly had to me to

1135
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:02,320
talk about with someone that
liked it too.

1136
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,640
And there and there goes the
neighborhood, you know, there

1137
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:08,760
that, and that's how it it
happens.

1138
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,320
And it's a very kind of simple,
right?

1139
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,600
You said that that whole process
seems very simple.

1140
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,480
It's just these three things.
And it is, it's not complicated.

1141
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,280
It's not some massive career in
astrophysics, physics, you know,

1142
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,360
it's not the next purchase of a
corporation.

1143
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,840
It's it's in these simple
things, right?

1144
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,400
That that you find joy.
And if that gives you joy and if

1145
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,920
you giggle like that, then maybe
there's something there.

1146
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:35,920
Now, does that mean that he's
going to pursue pottery?

1147
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,640
No, but in talking to that girl,
they might find a mutual

1148
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,440
interest in hiking.
And all of a sudden hiking has

1149
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,920
meaning.
And all of a sudden they're

1150
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,080
smiling together on that hike
and they're holding hands and

1151
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,440
life is different all of a
sudden.

1152
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,920
So a small story, but but one in
which you understand.

1153
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,040
How do you help someone find
their passion?

1154
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,360
I've, I had another young woman
came in very low self esteem,

1155
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:05,320
very low self esteem, but this
very acerbic sense of humor,

1156
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,880
like the way that she laughed at
herself, the way that she, that

1157
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,880
she poked at herself.
I said, you know, you, you, you

1158
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,280
should try stand up.
You should try and like take an

1159
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,760
improv class.
And by the way, we, we recommend

1160
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,240
in our practice improv classes
all the time for low self

1161
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,560
esteem.
It's a great way to build up

1162
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,720
self esteem, to learn how to do
improv.

1163
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:31,040
So she goes and she joins this
improv class and ends up joining

1164
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,840
their comedy troupe.
How do you find your passion?

1165
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,000
You go first step.
The hardest step is the first

1166
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,720
one.
But once you take that first

1167
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,120
step, the path begins to open
itself.

1168
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,720
So it's like a, it's very
cliche, but you know the the

1169
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,960
path is not clear before you
take the first step.

1170
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,480
The path becomes clear when you
are on the path.

1171
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,760
Is Do you remember the book The
Found Head by Ayn Rand?

1172
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:58,800
Yeah, of course.
Absolutely.

1173
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,280
So there was one particular
scene in the book.

1174
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,120
It's so funny because I don't
know anything about the book.

1175
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,160
I didn't know, you know, I just
like stumbled upon at one time,

1176
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,760
I didn't know that anyone like,
felt very strongly about it one

1177
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,720
way or the other.
And I was like talking about it,

1178
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,920
you know, And I was in college
and my friends are like, dude,

1179
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,160
you know, that book sucks.
I'm like, what?

1180
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,920
How could that book suck?
I just didn't understand that it

1181
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,240
was even controversial.
But there was one.

1182
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:29,040
There was the particular
instance where the guy that you

1183
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,840
know, where the, where the, I
guess the main sad character,

1184
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:37,960
not really hero, not really a
villain, the guy that pursues

1185
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,920
architecture just for the
prestige and for the sake of it,

1186
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:42,520
but really wanted to be an
artist.

1187
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,880
There's a point where he calls
Howard Rourke, who's the main

1188
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,240
hero into like at a certain
point in his like 40s or 50s,

1189
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,080
he, you know, he achieved
everything he wanted to achieve

1190
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:54,680
with his career.
And he goes to and he buys his

1191
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,720
shed for his backyard and he
disappears into his shed for

1192
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,040
hours of time at a night.
And he doesn't his wife in, he

1193
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,920
doesn't let his friends in.
No one's allowed to see what's

1194
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,480
inside.
And and he invites this other

1195
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,520
guy, Rourke in and it turns out
to be paintings.

1196
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,240
And this guy, you know, felt
like he had shut off his, you

1197
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,480
know, his desire for his
passions for so long that he

1198
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,960
wanted to see if it was too late
to kind of re engage with it.

1199
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,000
And, you know, in the way that
she and the way that she

1200
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:25,960
describes the book was so
heartbreaking.

1201
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,880
It literally it made me cry
while I was reading it.

1202
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,360
And it was really it was an
extremely profound moment.

1203
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,600
But that, you know, he's looking
at these pictures that look like

1204
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,320
and it, you know, like some like
inner child had tried to draw

1205
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,040
on, but like through like, you
know, like an adult, like

1206
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,960
crudely.
And he's just like, it was just

1207
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,760
too late for him to pursue this.
I think a lot of people, you

1208
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,960
know, feel like it's too late in
their lives at any point to

1209
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,680
really do to really try to do
anything or try to do anything

1210
01:07:58,680 --> 01:07:59,760
great.
And if they're not going to do

1211
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:00,840
it, great, then what's the
point?

1212
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,040
I, I specifically try to avoid
that.

1213
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,200
I try, I picked up guitar like 3
or 4 years ago just, and I've

1214
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,280
been, you know, at it since.
And I'm always trying to do new

1215
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,200
things because I always don't
feel like it's, you know, I

1216
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:14,680
always don't want to feel like
it's too late.

1217
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:19,600
But what, how do we, how do we,
how do we get people out of

1218
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,520
that, out of that, you know,
that space?

1219
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,640
Because I feel like it's a
really real fear.

1220
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,880
And it really is a very it's
it's a tough feeling when you

1221
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,319
you started something later at
life and someone with, you know,

1222
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:32,399
and you're comparing yourself to
other people and you're insecure

1223
01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:34,800
about it to begin with.
And then all of a sudden, you

1224
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,840
know, you're not good at it.
And you know, what's the point

1225
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:40,560
of even doing it almost, you
know, how do you do you do you

1226
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,200
do a lot of people express that
sentiment?

1227
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:48,439
OK, we're back.
So, you know, that's this point

1228
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,359
about about not pursuing
something because it's not going

1229
01:08:51,359 --> 01:08:54,880
to be perfect goes to this whole
concept of perfectionism, right?

1230
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,800
Do you stop a child from playing
a game because they didn't play

1231
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:00,840
it perfectly?
Right.

1232
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,640
Do you stop a child from doing
some kind of art because it's

1233
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,600
not perfect?
Of course not.

1234
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:11,040
It's not about being perfect.
We're not looking to pick up the

1235
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,439
clarinet to be a, an
award-winning clarinet artist,

1236
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,000
right?
That's that, that's a musician.

1237
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,439
That's not the point.
It's like that, the client that

1238
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:21,080
put his hands in the clay and
giggled.

1239
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,439
It's, it's about just feeling
something.

1240
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,359
It's about feeling like, you
know, I like this.

1241
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,399
I, it, it does something.
And sometimes it's about being

1242
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:34,120
attuned to yourself.
I know that people, you know,

1243
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,479
they get older, they kind of
lose touch with what am I

1244
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,880
feeling right now.
But the reality is that you

1245
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,399
don't need to pursue a, a, a
creative endeavor.

1246
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,800
You don't need to pursue
something to be the best at it.

1247
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:50,240
We're trained as kids and I
think that we do a lot of

1248
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:55,600
disservice to kids when we when
we try and push them towards

1249
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,080
being this ideal version of
something.

1250
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:02,920
Don't get me wrong, we all need
our Mozart's, we all need our

1251
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,720
Beethoven's, right?
They, they, those, those kinds

1252
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,920
of outliers are going to always
exist.

1253
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:21,800
But as individuals, we do not
need to be to create the best

1254
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:26,280
piece of pottery, the best
drawing, the best anything.

1255
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,960
My house is full of artwork.
Many of those things were made

1256
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,080
by dear friends.
They are beautiful pieces of art

1257
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,440
for me.
Does that mean that they are

1258
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,600
award-winning?
They should be up in the, in

1259
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,680
the, you know, the Museum of, of
Art.

1260
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,640
Maybe not, but they have a lot
of meaning for me.

1261
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,280
They're they, they are very rich
for me.

1262
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,680
I, I would be more upset about
losing those than losing some

1263
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,160
piece of art somewhere in a
museum that that doesn't have

1264
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:57,440
any meaning for me.
So what we do for ourselves,

1265
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:04,760
that is by itself very important
that that in and of itself is

1266
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:06,640
enough.
We are enough.

1267
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,440
And so often we, I think clients
flip.

1268
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,400
They're not enough.
We are enough not for not for

1269
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,840
what we do or what we give, for
who we are.

1270
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:20,600
We are enough.
And when I try and help somebody

1271
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,720
as I'm kind of ushering them
towards trying to class or

1272
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,120
something.
Give up on the perfectionism.

1273
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,640
No one needs your perfectionism.
You don't need your

1274
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:35,880
perfectionism.
Just be be completely present in

1275
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:40,000
the moment and ask yourself, how
do I feel right now, in the

1276
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,040
moment?
Am I depressed, Am I anxious?

1277
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,000
Am I telling myself that I'm
garbage, that I'm not worthy?

1278
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,600
OK, let's talk about that.
What's real here?

1279
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:56,160
So I think the answer that
question you first asked about

1280
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,840
how do you find your passion?
How do you find your meaning?

1281
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:04,120
It's about being attuned to
yourself and and understanding.

1282
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,920
What do you feel?
I mean, many people are

1283
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:13,680
generally numb or overwhelmed.
That's a that's, that's a lot of

1284
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,920
the feeling out there right now.
I mean, I'm sure that you must

1285
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,640
have that around you as well,
right?

1286
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,280
There's just a lot of numb and
overwhelmed.

1287
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,600
And if there is a moment when
you feel something that is not

1288
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,280
one of those two things, God
bless.

1289
01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:30,840
You found your passion.
You found something that has

1290
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,400
reached in past the the weeds
and grabbed your heart and

1291
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:39,120
pulled you out.
And that by itself is enough.

1292
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:45,720
Yeah, Yeah, I think, I think
that that's, and it's

1293
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,680
beautifully put.
I think it's, I think it's right

1294
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,000
because I think that if it's a
passion, then perfectionism

1295
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,640
doesn't even necessarily.
I don't even know, I don't know

1296
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,080
if that's necessarily true, but
I'm sure the people that are

1297
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,440
perfectionists are passionate
about what the perfectionist

1298
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:01,240
about.
But a passion is totally a

1299
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,960
passion and.
And by the way, there is nothing

1300
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,880
about there's nothing wrong when
you're passionate about

1301
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,320
something.
You are constantly in a, in a

1302
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,720
state where you are trying to
sort of, I'm going to use the

1303
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,840
word perfect, different from
perfectionism, right?

1304
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:25,200
To, to, to be, to always better
yourself in that frame, right?

1305
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,200
So I'm, I'm, if I make a piece
of pottery, the first piece

1306
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,920
might look like, you know, it
was made by a person that, that

1307
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,760
doesn't know what they're doing.
And then as I work on it and I

1308
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:38,840
work on it and I add hours and
hours, it begins to, to have the

1309
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:40,840
appearance of something
familiar.

1310
01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:44,520
Is that perfectionism?
No, no, that, that, that, that

1311
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,960
is, that is honing your art.
That is honing your skill.

1312
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,480
That is a normal part of the
process.

1313
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:56,320
It's a different story than you
creating, you know, an initial

1314
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,040
piece and then slamming it and
saying that's garbage, doesn't

1315
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,840
deserve to even have and see the
light of day.

1316
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,400
But that that comes from
perfectionism like that.

1317
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,560
It should be something that it's
not.

1318
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,160
I should be something that I'm
not, therefore I'm not worthy of

1319
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,320
even respecting or loving
myself.

1320
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,800
It's, I'm so happy that you just
said that because I just had

1321
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,680
this experience with guitar
where for a little while I was,

1322
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:24,000
I, I was, I was, I was being
tough myself.

1323
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,120
I wasn't, I wasn't practicing.
I wasn't really playing very

1324
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,720
much because I, you know, I
would listen to great, you know,

1325
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,040
music or I'd hang out with
friends that were great

1326
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,800
musicians and I'd be like,
what's the point?

1327
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,960
And then at a certain point I
realized that what was so

1328
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:41,640
frustrating for me wasn't that I
wasn't as good as them, but that

1329
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:43,760
I didn't know how to express
myself on it.

1330
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:49,240
But then at that point, I that
almost snapped me right back

1331
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,560
into playing and practicing
again, because the pursuit

1332
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:56,720
didn't become about perfection.
It became about my ability to

1333
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,600
express myself and to become
myself.

1334
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,240
You know, my search for what my
sound is and what my tone is.

1335
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,960
I know when I write, if I give
you come across a poem that I

1336
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:10,520
wrote, or you come across, you
know, you know, particular, I

1337
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,240
don't know, pocket, you know,
pocket conversation style, you

1338
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,760
would know that it's me like
it's very, very it's very

1339
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,440
distinct.
And and I and I think that

1340
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:22,440
that's what people find that
that's that's a passion

1341
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:27,760
personified is an external or
some kind of external creative

1342
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,800
act that is expressive of who
you are.

1343
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:38,600
And so I think that you're that
it's and then the more that you

1344
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:43,040
refine that, then it gets closer
to being the most quote, UN

1345
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,480
quote perfect or the best that
it can be, you know, and that's

1346
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:50,680
even come great. 100%,
absolutely.

1347
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:57,000
And so often, unfortunately,
that is stifled in US, you know,

1348
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:01,360
as kids, it's stifled.
I, you know, I, I grew up, my

1349
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,080
parents were immigrants.
They came to this country.

1350
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:04,200
They had, you know, they had no
money.

1351
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,400
They worked, you know, 2 jobs
and my mom had two jobs.

1352
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:07,640
She was going to school to
become a nurse.

1353
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,320
They did not have money to send
me to music school.

1354
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,160
They did not have money for
these extra things.

1355
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,120
And so I did not grow up playing
music.

1356
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:19,720
And it wasn't until I was
really, I think like 15 or 16

1357
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:21,400
years old.
And mom said, oh, you know, I

1358
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,320
can get you piano lessons.
I remember going to play piano

1359
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:28,520
with this Russian, a teacher who
had taught in Moscow And, you

1360
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,880
know, he, he had me like, you
know, repeat these, these notes

1361
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:33,520
over and over again, over and
over again.

1362
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,560
And then after like, you know, a
certain number of lessons, he

1363
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,720
said to me, you know, you can,
you'll play like a monkey, but

1364
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,400
you'll never, you don't have an
ear, you'll never play, you

1365
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:43,920
know, be able to just pick up
and pick up music.

1366
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,640
That was the end of it.
The minute he said that, it

1367
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:49,480
killed it for me.
I just, I, I was like, well,

1368
01:16:49,480 --> 01:16:54,160
what's the point of coming back
and, and continuing, right?

1369
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,640
And it, it just killed it in me
and, and so often and, and the

1370
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:04,360
crazy thing is that I am as
guilty of carrying that forward

1371
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,440
at as he was for, for, for
making that statement.

1372
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,960
You know, my son started playing
the guitar when he was I, I

1373
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,840
can't remember whether he was 5
or 7, fairly young, maybe a

1374
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,000
little bit older than that.
He, he started taking guitar

1375
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,920
lessons and he was so small that
he couldn't get his hand

1376
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:27,400
completely around the guitar.
But he played guitar, he

1377
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:32,160
practiced guitar.
He and, and, and he would play

1378
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:37,520
for me.
And I, I knew in my mind, I, I

1379
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:41,480
was, I had the awareness of, you
know, only say positive things,

1380
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,240
only reinforce like the, the
will to continue.

1381
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,400
But there was something in my
eyes.

1382
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:51,120
I knew that it was, I could feel
it like there was something in

1383
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,520
my eyes where I could, it was
like that teacher had left a

1384
01:17:55,520 --> 01:18:00,280
stain inside of me.
And it, it and, and you know, a

1385
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:04,360
child can see, they can see,
they can see into your eyes and

1386
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,560
they, you can't gaslight them
because they can see.

1387
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,680
And, and I know that it had an
effect because over time, he

1388
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:15,280
stopped playing for me.
He did not stop playing, but he

1389
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,640
stopped playing in front of me.
He stopped practicing in front

1390
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,240
of me.
I went to all of his, you know,

1391
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,480
the, the, the shows that he did.
I went to all his recitals.

1392
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,400
I was so proud of him, so happy.
And it took so long for me to,

1393
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:33,480
to eventually come to me and
say, I am so sorry because I

1394
01:18:33,480 --> 01:18:37,680
know that I, that it's, it's in
me like I have this thing that I

1395
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:39,480
needed to change.
But after that it changed

1396
01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:41,640
everything.
Like he, he played and I looked

1397
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:45,160
at him differently after that.
So it's like so easy to plant

1398
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:48,880
that seed inside of us and to
kill a passion inside of us.

1399
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:53,560
It's so simple to do that.
And as you said earlier, it's so

1400
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:59,000
easy to grow something to, to,
to plant a seed of growth and

1401
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,360
to, to reinforce something
positive as you do, I'm sure

1402
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,440
with your students, because you
have this awareness of it.

1403
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:10,760
So, you know, we, we, we, we
should not give up on ourselves

1404
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:17,080
because we have some one else's
perspective of what perfect is

1405
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,360
in our minds.
Perfect doesn't matter.

1406
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:25,280
Our inner joy matters.
That's what matters.

1407
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,480
Yeah.
And that's how I mean, so that's

1408
01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:35,000
actually what I find, what I've
found to be so contagious.

1409
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,440
I think about the Grateful Dead
because I just, I've only gone

1410
01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:41,920
into the last couple of years
and but when I get into any kind

1411
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,880
of like band or music group or
topic, I love to do deep dives

1412
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,520
and I love to read everything
and listen to podcasts and

1413
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,000
listen to all their lives, you
know, as many live shows as you

1414
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,960
can, you know, because my ears
could process, my brain could

1415
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,680
process.
And you know, I'm listening to

1416
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:59,280
interviews with Jerry Garcia.
And like, the only thing that he

1417
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,160
ever wanted to do was just do
the things that he loved doing

1418
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:06,040
and.
That was it, you know, and, and

1419
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,000
he did it and he did it as often
as he could, as frequently as he

1420
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:14,920
could and became great at it.
And people were drawing people

1421
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,760
not were not only drawn to it,
they, they could not remove

1422
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:19,960
themselves from them.
You know, like, I mean, no one

1423
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,520
has a, has had a really has
close followings like the

1424
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:26,200
Grateful Dead, Like what they 25
years after 30 years after he

1425
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,280
died, it's still, you know, I
mean, it's, it's, it's, it's

1426
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:30,880
grown even more than ever
before.

1427
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,840
And he's and he's dead, you
know, and this, I think that

1428
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:39,680
there's this unconscious
appreciation and maybe I hope

1429
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:41,880
it's conscious, but if people
don't realize that, I guess it's

1430
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,680
subconscious appreciation for
someone that just is great for

1431
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,080
the sake of loving what they do
and like.

1432
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:50,680
And those people make the best
leaders and those people make

1433
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,600
the best, you know, parents and
the best, you know, the best

1434
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,760
roles of their job is the
pursuit of the job for the sake

1435
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:02,960
of it, not to be the best of it.
Joy is infectious.

1436
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:08,000
And when you are experiencing an
inner state of joy, you

1437
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:11,600
magnetize the world around you.
I mean, if you think about that,

1438
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,520
right, like this sense of that,
that sense of joy, you know,

1439
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:19,040
the, the, I'm thinking here of
like even the Hasidim, when

1440
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:21,320
they're like dancing and they're
like, they're like in that

1441
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,080
ecstatic state, right?
There's just something that

1442
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:26,280
melts.
It's just like it melts it melts

1443
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,240
the room it like it melts it.
Melts the room.

1444
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:30,280
It's crazy.
It, it absolutely.

1445
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,800
And, and, and that, that is that
inner state of joy, right.

1446
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:41,160
So without a doubt, pursuing
your passions, connecting with

1447
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,560
with your community, connecting
with people that reflect your

1448
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,160
value back at you and having a
fundamental understanding that

1449
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:52,320
you are enough, that you are
good that, that, that your

1450
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,120
relationship with yourself is
what matters.

1451
01:21:55,480 --> 01:21:59,640
Ultimately, it's what matters,
because when that relationship

1452
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,240
fails, the world becomes a very
dark place.

1453
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:09,120
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, it does.

1454
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:10,560
Well, that's why you have to
keep on doing what we do, I

1455
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,480
guess 100%.
So you have to keep on doing

1456
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:16,880
what we do.
It's I, I hope we can do another

1457
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,760
recording because there's like 3
or 4 big topics that I didn't

1458
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:22,960
even get a chance to get to.
I wanted to talk with you about,

1459
01:22:24,440 --> 01:22:30,000
but including including film and
psychedelics and you know, and

1460
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,480
then actually a little bit more
about your back back story.

1461
01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:36,520
But Mara, I really appreciate
the time.

1462
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,200
This is this is awesome.
This is so much fun and this is

1463
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:42,440
so enlightening.
And the I, I really appreciate

1464
01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:45,920
how you didn't only introduce
topics, but you really gave

1465
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:50,360
colorful and really important
and valuable stories with, you

1466
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,640
know, to, to go along and create
an actual context in a picture

1467
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,200
to, to the context or to the
concept.

1468
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:58,520
So thank you so much really for
the time.

1469
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,160
This is really, really so
amazing.

1470
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,080
And and I hope to do.
I hope to be able to do Part 2

1471
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:05,800
soon.
Well, I, I had a great sense of

1472
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,760
joy doing it with you.
So I'm, I'm going to definitely

1473
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,400
make myself available.
I, I, I, I wish you the best

1474
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,000
and, and absolutely let's
reconnect so many more great

1475
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:16,680
topics to discuss with you.
I'm very excited.

1476
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:18,600
And next time you come down to
South Florida, if it's any time

1477
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,480
in the near future, again,
please, by all means, I'd love

1478
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:21,800
to.
I'd love to introduce myself in

1479
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:24,000
person, right?
I appreciate it.

1480
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,400
Thank you.
Be well, take care.

1481
01:23:25,480 --> 01:23:27,400
All the best, take care, have a
great rest of the week, bye bye.