Science Series 7: Tim Pickens / Rocket Science / Hybrid Propulsion / UFO’s / Missing Scientists

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Welcome to another episode of
Come Together,

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Tim Pickens, welcome to the
show.

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I'm so happy to have you here
and I wish you were just

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recording for the last hour, but
we will keep it up because like

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I've said more than once so far,
her reality is I think science

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fiction, at least for me.
But if not for 95 or more

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percent, I would imagine of
people out there, you take

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rocket, you take the word rocket
science and bring it to a lot of

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different places.
So I want to just kind of let

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you go and tell me a little bit
about what you've done in your

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free time and what you've done
in your professional time.

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That is really just what is,
what's so incredible.

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I mean, it's so cool.
Well, well, thanks for having me

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on this is, you know, I don't do
a lot of these, but it's kind of

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fun to talk about the weird
stuff, the the real stuff and

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maybe the weird, the weird,
real, real, real stuff.

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I don't know.
Yeah, farewell.

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We'll get there.
We'll get.

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There the weird real stuff.
I don't know, but I've worked,

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you know, doing the space
exploration, trying to lower the

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cost to get people to space for
my most of my adult life.

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I dreamed about it before then,
but I just didn't think I'd

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really had the brain power to
really make a difference

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probably than believe in myself.
And I, I, to be honest, I kind

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of fell into just taking classes
and kind of just doing my own

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thing, learning my, my, my whole
home's a library of technical

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books, but everything's applied.
Most everything I have it.

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If it doesn't say applied, I
would rather give it away

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because it's probably going to
be above my head.

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So it's, we got to build stuff.
But I'll tell you, it's been an

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incredible journey And it
started with just me wanting to

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make a difference in the
industry and found some friends

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and we, I decided I was going to
buy a lay the metal a then I own

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a meal machine and start buying
NASA valves because I wanted the

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good stuff.
It's, I'd go to sales and I

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start inviting friends over and
we, we got together with our,

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with a space club and next thing
you know, two nights a week

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we're building a rocket to put a
little critter in space and we

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want to hit 50 miles and we're
used.

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No way.
We use the balloon.

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We use the big balloon.
And next thing you know, three

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years later, we're flying them
off the coast of the Atlantic.

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Got a question?
Who, who's we?

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How did you find these people?
Most people in this world cannot

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find a group of people I think
you know, to, to hang out with a

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couple of times a week.
And also, you know, I, I was

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shocked and I've only heard this
recently as the news wave has

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hit.
But you live in a you live in a

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particular part of the world
that is very folk, you know,

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that has a lot of high
concentration of people that are

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interested in the same thing as
you are.

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That's right.
He's more per capita.

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I think anywhere in the country
is Huntsville, AL.

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So it is the Rocket city.
I was born there when I I was

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born in 64 and I there were
probably about 50 or 60,000

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people there.
Now there's well over 1,000,000

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people and I think you said you
visited up there.

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Yeah.
It's just a different place.

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You know, I'd go to the Space
and Rocket Center all the time

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and I would, I mean a lot.
And I would think, wow, why is

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this stuff so expensive, man?
How are we going to make a

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difference?
How could I make a difference?

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And it just bombed me out that
we had a museum full of stuff

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that probably could have flown
and and it was like, are you

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kidding?
This is crazy.

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We'll we'll kill a program, then
we'll go do something else.

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Politics chicks will kill
another one.

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And it's like, this is not
sustainable.

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And I really wanted to make a
difference.

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So this this rocket to space,
the first amateur space shot we

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hit 36 miles in about two years.
By the way, that was the highest

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we got in the giddiest book of
world records, 2000 Millennium.

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And what's space?
Considered that was 50 miles

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high, the international
recognition is 62 miles, 100

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kilometers, but we were just, we
almost, but it was the highest.

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So the Guineas picked it up and
we didn't push Guineas to do

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that.
It just showed up.

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The point is we learn how to
build stuff from nothing out of

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the trash can.
I mean, this is where I come up

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with the idea of the nitrous
oxide and the asphalt fuel for

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I'm talking roof and tar that
became the propellant and

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everybody's like, are you
kidding?

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Normally we'd use this rubber
called HTPB.

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It's kind of like rubber from
micro pencil racers.

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This is what they use with the
oxidizer in it to make solid

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rocket motors.
But this is typical.

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I said, let's try asphalt
because it's got a lot of energy

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in it and they make
plasticizers.

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I already looked it up.
We can make it where where it's

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real rubbery and and they do
that to make sure it doesn't

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crack on roofs.
And I said, there's a lot of

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data and I said, let's my wife's
the chemistry major and I said,

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how much energy is there in a,
you know, an announcer gram?

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And she said, are you kidding?
She's a thermochemistry.

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That's not my thing.
It's a she's organic Anyways,

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she didn't want to talk about
it.

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So I had to Start learning some
math and chemistry and I'm

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digging and I'm thinking, oh
gosh, this is so, so heavy, man.

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The next thing you know, I'm
we're doing, I'm doing thrust

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measurements with force gauges
and I'm learning

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instrumentation.
I'm doing testing in my front

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yard, you know, making a lot of
noise.

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Oh yeah, man, I've got smoke
coming out of the yard and the

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neighbors asking am I OK?
And I'm and I've got a chart

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recorder with pens and it's
taking the data and I'm and I'm

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getting the thrust under the
curve and I'm and I'm and I'm

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chopping it up and put it in
excel in my brother-in-law.

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He's a physicist.
He comes by.

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So are you working on some
calculus?

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I said, no, I'm, I'm just
integrating this little areas

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here.
He said, well, that's what

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you're doing.
And here's the really quiet.

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And I'm like, oh, I don't want
to get into all that math.

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And then when stuff blew up and
burned up, I thought, oh gosh,

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I'm gonna have to learn about
materials and strength and

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stress and the, and I say, you
know, you know, but, but The

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thing is, there was this group
of people that love the National

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Space Society.
They'd have monthly speakers.

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So the guy that was running it,
he said, we've got about $10,000

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leftover from a national space
society.

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We, we had a big convention here
and we, he said, we'd love to do

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that amateur space shot.
He said.

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I said, well, I've got some
ideas for rockets where we won't

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kill ourselves with making solid
rocket propellant.

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If some something went South,
you know, we'd have a big

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fireball.
So you got a question.

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Yeah, real quick.
I'm sorry.

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Yeah, No.
Problem.

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To clarify, right, in case
anyone doesn't understand,

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what's a typical way that
rockets, that rocket propellant

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is used or was it typically made
of and what was unconventional

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about the way that you were
going about it?

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OK, Well, you can make
fireworks, by the way, in your

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house just like you'd buy at a
fireworks stand.

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And you might have a little ball
rocket and that may have nothing

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more than black powder in it,
just like the old muskets.

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And it's basically has a, an
oxidizer that's, that would be

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like a potassium nitrate
fertilizer.

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And they would have a sulfur and
a little bit of a charcoal that

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that's the ingredients.
And that's pretty much what

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solid rocket motors are.
When you see them firing them at

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different people, different
countries, it's this stuff

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rubber.
But they, they, it's when it's

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still gooey and rub before it
cures, they mix oxidizer in.

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And that could be fertilizer by
the way.

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I see ammonium nitrate is
another better is another one,

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but but potassium nitrate.
So that's a solid rocket motor.

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Once you light it, you can't cut
it off.

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You're committed a bunch of this
in your house and your garage in

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the neighborhood.
And we have a spark.

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Guess what?
We may not, we may not make it

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right.
This thing's trying to update.

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Hold on later.
OK, sorry.

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So, yeah, this, this is this is
how they do solids and in the

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BATF.
And everyone was getting freaked

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out about people and and
terrorism and they didn't want

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people buying rockets.
Well, I said, well, why don't I

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did steam rockets, by the way, I
did big steam rockets in my

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driveway before I ever want to
to go to space.

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I was firing a big engine and it
would just be be steam all

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throughout the front yard.
And I'm sitting there with my

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chart recorder and I'm
integrating all this data and I

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flew that rocket weighed about
55 lbs.

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I flew it to 2000 feet several
times.

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And I'm the guy that would come
out with the little kids and

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they got the Estes and I'm
hauling around a generator pals

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of water in this 15 foot tall
rocket.

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And they're like, we don't know
if this is sanction.

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And I'm like, I'm only going to
go 1000 feet maybe.

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And I'll tell you, I freak
people out.

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And I didn't even think I said
it's just water.

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It's just, we're not going to go
out there once we make steam.

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So I anyways it I really got in
deep, man.

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I went in from SD's rockets from
Walmart or Kmart to bigger

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rockets.
So because of this inherent,

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this stuff can kill you if you
get, you know, if you have a

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batch go up.
What I did is I said we got to

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count something different.
That's where the nitrous oxide

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and the asphalt fuel.
So you keep them separated.

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Nitrous is in its own tank like
the racers use.

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OK.
And then we have the asphalt

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over there in this rocket motor
case.

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OK.
And with all that, you have the

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two separated, so you don't have
an oxidizer mixed with until you

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open a valve.
In fact, I'll show you a piece

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of hardware real quick.
And when you open and open it,

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opening the valve allows the two
to mix and then they mix.

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That's.
What it is, This is one of our

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Club Rocket.
That's the nozzle, that's an

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igniter up in there.
This is full of asphalt, and

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this is where the nitrous comes
in, and it's all right here.

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Wow.
And then and then where's the,

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where's the lever in the middle?
Where's the lever that allows

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you to to separate them?
It's all nitrous in a tank way

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up above this nitrous way up.
The nitrous is about a 10 foot

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long tank attached to this.
OK I see there is a pyro valve I

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design in here.
So when you light that igniter

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and that pressure right there is
nitrous, it'll blow that valve

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open and it'll auto ignite this.
And this puts out about 800 lbs

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of thrust for 30 seconds but.
We have.

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We built this in my garage.
Man, this is homemade rockets.

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This one was to go to 62 miles
over 62 but we had some problems

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but I'll put that away, sorry.
No, no, no.

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That's awesome.
That's awesome.

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But anyways, I really got into
this and I wanted to put one on

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my bicycle, man, I want to ride
that, that that power fill that

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little hand of God pushing me
out of the road.

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So I did man, a body Glen, the
guy hired to be my first

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technician.
We, we built one.

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The fuel was plexiglass, just a
piece of plexiglass with a hole

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drill down the middle with a
little injector, a hole and we

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spray the nitrous in and it
would light it.

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We'd have to light it with like
with a sparkler.

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You ever play with a sparkler
with your kids, you light them

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and you shove it up the nozzle
and then you open the nitrous

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valve and when the then it
starts lighting and you blow

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that sparkler out and you have a
thrust.

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And it was like.
About 40 lbs of thrust.

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So we were riding it down the
neighborhood and we were getting

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it down through there.
And then later I built the

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faster one that would do zero to
60 in five seconds.

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And it was it was asphalt with
nitrous.

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And then so, you know,
eventually all this Club Rocket

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00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,400
stuff went on from 1994 to 2000.
Hey everyone real quick if

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00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,560
you're enjoying the show, click
subscribe and rate the show. 5

226
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,440
stars helps a ton.
Thanks so much.

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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,760
And a guy came to town named
Burt Rutan who was looking at,

228
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,480
he's an airplane expert.
He's had lots of planes in the

229
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,520
Smithsonian and it was all
composite.

230
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,200
He's like, I'm bored with
airplanes.

231
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,240
I want to go to space.
And I'm at this event in 1999

232
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,040
and a little bitty airport.
And he said, he said, I said,

233
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,040
I'd like to talk to you about
cheap, low cost rocket motors.

234
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:28,360
He's so good.
We're looking for people in

235
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,320
Huntsville.
You rocket people, you, you are

236
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,120
the people I need.
He said, I can't have NASA build

237
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,440
it because it cost more than the
program, because we only got

238
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,000
25,000,000 to do a program
eventually.

239
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,800
But but this man right right
here came to Huntsville.

240
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,120
Burt Rutan, that's me.
Wow.

241
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,960
And he came to. 99 Saying I'm
bored with airplanes.

242
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,200
This.
Is the same guy that built the

243
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,240
plane to fly around the world
nonstop called Voyager?

244
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,120
Amazing made history.
It's hanging Smithsonian.

245
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,000
You see that?
That's the spaceship, that's the

246
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,920
mother ship to drop it from
55,000 feet.

247
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,320
That man right there started
talking to me and we started

248
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,480
exchanging emails and ideas
Free.

249
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,160
Free.
To you or you walked up to him?

250
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,040
How?
Do you mean I just said, hey,

251
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,880
I'm, I play with rockets.
We did it.

252
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,680
We did a balloon launch.
I said we did a couple of them.

253
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,000
We did one at the Gulf of
Mexico.

254
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,760
We were on the NASA barge 200
miles out with a balloon with a

255
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,360
homemade, they did rocket and it
and it fell off the balloon and

256
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,960
hit the deck and it like almost
explode.

257
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,800
It was that nitrous.
It was horrible.

258
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,520
But we're doing this as weekend
warriors, amateurs not getting

259
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,120
paid.
NASA loaned us the barge because

260
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,160
they wanted to see how you might
do balloons and rockets.

261
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,560
No kidding.
Marshall Space Flight Center.

262
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,440
So this is one of those programs
you'll never hear much about,

263
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,880
but.
Marshall Space Flight, What is

264
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:52,880
it called?
The Marshall what?

265
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,760
Marshall Space Flight Center.
It was, it was a he called the

266
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,560
balloon rocket a raccoon rocket,
a balloon raccoon.

267
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,480
So we can, we talked to, we were
the raccoon buffoons 'cause we

268
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,960
dealt with rockets and balloons
and it was horrible.

269
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,400
But we lost the first one out of
Topsail Beach up there in the

270
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,200
Carolinas where they with the
Wright brothers flow.

271
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,240
We lost.
Wow.

272
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,160
That's the one that went to 36
miles.

273
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,840
But anyway, eventually he said
he called me one day in 2020,

274
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,160
but almost 2020, when he said,
hey, I'm funded, Paul Allen's

275
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:29,560
funding my program.
He said.

276
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,440
I want you to come work for me
and lead my rocket engine

277
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,040
development.
And who's Paul Allen?

278
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,000
Sorry.
Paul Allen is the Co founder of

279
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760
Microsoft with Bill Gates.
Wow.

280
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,640
And and and and and so he's.
A billionaire Seattle Seahawks,

281
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,960
he owns, they own them.
He's he's died.

282
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,880
He died now.
But he said, I need you out here

283
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,400
in two weeks.
And I said, Bert, I said there's

284
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,680
a lot smarter Rocket people than
me.

285
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,120
I said, go find you a PhD, find
you somewhere, He said, Tim, he

286
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,760
said, I've seen your Rocket
bike.

287
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,840
I saw your rocket pickup truck
in your garage when I visited

288
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,200
you and and he and he also flew
me around in a couple of places

289
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,440
and said, do you mind if I pay
you to, to go with me and look

290
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,040
at some technology?
And so I did that on my

291
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,840
vacation.
What was that like?

292
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,080
Can you talk about that at all
or?

293
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,760
You're not allowed to.
I can sure there's nothing I can

294
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,880
talk about anything.
It's all happening 2004 the IT

295
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,560
was weird because people knew
that I was into hybrid rockets

296
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,560
and we're going to see some
hybrid come.

297
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,160
One of them was right down there
in Miami near where you are.

298
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,840
It was called EAC.
It was owned by a guy named

299
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:41,640
Kevin Smith who had about 300
patents or more on medical

300
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,600
devices.
You want to look him up?

301
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,480
He passed away.
He used to live down there in

302
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,640
Biscayne Bay and had a big ship
out in front of his yard.

303
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,840
That was Kevin.
But that company have is called

304
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,040
EAC Environmental Arrow
Corporation I think.

305
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,600
But he had lots of companies.
So he did a lot of 1 offs for

306
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,160
for Johnson Johnson and they're
still going.

307
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,400
Some of the guys down there,
Derek Deville and some others

308
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,360
that are still making medical
devices.

309
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,360
You might run across them in
some of your circles, but we

310
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,040
went down there.
They were glad to see me because

311
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,200
Bert didn't have them on the
list.

312
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,520
And I said, Bert, some of the
most creative guys, Corey

313
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,240
Kleiner right there in Miami.
He said, will you fly with me

314
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,440
down there?
And I said OK.

315
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,400
And we we went down and we met
and, and Kevin had a personal

316
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,200
chef and we're right there on
Biscayne Bay and they get into

317
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,760
it. 2A personalities cussing
each other out, Kevin saying

318
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,440
we're the only ones that could
do this for you.

319
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,880
Root 10.
Everybody else are clowns and

320
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,000
and you know, so it was just a
disaster.

321
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,440
So it was retaining because I
didn't I'm not I'm not in the

322
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,360
fight.
I'm I'm just eating the good

323
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,440
food and watching the but
anyway, I remember Bird said,

324
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,760
Oh, you GD this rocket guys all
think you're the only people who

325
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,160
could do this.
It was not good, but we

326
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,080
ultimately used them after a
little competition.

327
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,839
We use them for pieces of it.
When I say I led the

328
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:10,319
development, nobody had ever
built a big motor to fly people.

329
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:14,040
None of these companies and of
course I ride them on my truck

330
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,800
and I've done a lot, a lot, but
still none of these companies

331
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,800
had the capability to do a big
rocket motor.

332
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,400
None of them.
Well, we took that own in house

333
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,000
and they ended up saying we'll
do the fuel we'll do the we'll

334
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,560
do the rubber fuel like this,
we'll put the fuel in it and

335
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,640
compete for for the performance,
you know, for the for the gas

336
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,400
mileage.
Anyways, I tried to get out of

337
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,360
this deal, man, it was just
fate.

338
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,800
I couldn't Bart's like man, I, I
can't hire and ask a guy They'll

339
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,920
they'll make this thing cost a
billion dollars.

340
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,520
I need someone's check Ted.
We got 25,000,000 to do the

341
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,640
entire program.
That and.

342
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,800
What year was this?
2002.

343
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,240
So there wasn't anything or
anything.

344
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,080
Well, it flew in 2004 is when it
all went up and other players in

345
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,160
the game, other players were
really no serious players.

346
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,200
There were a lot of companies
that claimed they were going to

347
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,120
be able to do it, but it was
just a Bert was the top dog.

348
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,160
He was a real funded guy.
Plus he's done a lot of

349
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,680
airplanes, man.
I mean, like I said this, this

350
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,440
is just another crazy Rutan day
here.

351
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,720
That's his.
They call this some other ship.

352
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,000
That plane would go to 55,000
feet and drop this spaceship and

353
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,000
we'd light that motor and go
over 62 miles high.

354
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,720
Incredible.
And by the way, this is crazy

355
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,560
cowboy stuff, man.
I mean, there ain't no space

356
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,640
suits.
This is This is.

357
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,760
Well, who's how's this allowed?
You know, how's anyone willing?

358
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,760
Exactly.
You'd say, you know, how are we?

359
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,520
You don't ever ask people can
you do stuff?

360
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,320
You try to comply with the laws.
You end up in a prison.

361
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,240
Cell and you you skate around
permits, but look at the risk of

362
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,680
what Paul Howen, a billionaire,
is putting on the line to do

363
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,720
this to fly people and and
you're going to do what fire

364
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,360
that engine 10 times on the
ground and then you're going to

365
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,960
go put a man in it on national
TV.

366
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,560
Yeah.
That's, yeah, we were talking

367
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,720
earlier about people that that
aren't scared of anything,

368
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,080
people that just jump in in
spite of, you know, their

369
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,600
billion dollars.
They're going, they're going to

370
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,240
do it.
It's part of the reason a lot of

371
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,840
times why they even have that
billion dollars to begin with is

372
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,440
because it is because they don't
they don't have the they don't

373
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,720
have that same type of fear of
risk that the most people have.

374
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,320
And I think that also a certain
party has able to turn off your

375
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,440
brain for a minute and just be
like all my instincts that are

376
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,840
yelling at me are just
protective in survival

377
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,600
instincts.
I'm not, you know, we're not

378
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,640
here to survive.
We're here to live, you know, as

379
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,160
they say in Wally, in the great,
in the great movie Wally.

380
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,280
But it's true, you know, and
it's something that I, something

381
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,400
that that comes to mind during
your whole story so far, and

382
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,600
I've lamented this on a couple
of podcasts recently, is that

383
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,480
Americans kind of forgot how to
be Cowboys and in a lot of ways,

384
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,640
and we've become tame and we've
become comfortable.

385
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,440
We've become confident in
ourselves, overconfident in

386
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,800
ourselves, I believe.
And there's something the the

387
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,320
combination of intelligence,
perseverance and play for those

388
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,640
three factors and that is so
valuable.

389
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,880
And if you take out the play of
it from that, you lose.

390
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,240
So the play is absolutely
necessary.

391
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,520
And, and you know what?
And that's why you have enormous

392
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,080
success from people that do
value creativity over anything.

393
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,280
You know, I, I, I, I, I look at
the entertainment world, which

394
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,960
is the world that I, that I kind
of most comfortable, I guess,

395
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,520
talking about.
But Taylor Sheridan has a blank

396
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,560
checkbook with, with Paramount.
Why?

397
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,800
Because he takes creative risks
that that are so good every time

398
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,760
that they're no longer
considered risks, right?

399
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,360
He's balanced between that
intelligence and the talent and

400
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:01,920
the play and, and, and I think
so few people have that, but

401
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,920
it's that that's what's that's
what's so much fun about hearing

402
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,760
your your story is that this is
an old American spirit as far as

403
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,120
I'm concerned.
And I think that's something

404
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,200
that we need revived.
And I think it's something.

405
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,680
We need we absolutely is nothing
like it to be in the right

406
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,840
stuff.
Movie is what I'm doing.

407
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,960
I mean, it's in 1947 here.
It is not a 2004 and we've got a

408
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,680
guy climbing in this thing we
built in a few months and he's

409
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,320
going to go get dropped from
55,000 feet on a brand new

410
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,280
airplane using 2 jet engines
bought off and off the freaking

411
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:41,000
eBay from jet engine car guys.
These jet engines, J-80 fives,

412
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,200
afterburners, these weren't
certified for anything.

413
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,880
This is experimental plane by
the way, completely.

414
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,120
And and Bird always said by the
way, said he when we get our

415
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,280
paychecks, he'd be like, wow, we
get paid for this man, this is

416
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,880
so much fun.
I should be paying you.

417
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,440
So back to the fun and the
keeping that kid alive inside of

418
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,800
you.
It is so, so important to keep

419
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,640
everybody just fired up about
the mission.

420
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,600
And he also said, gods, you
know, you're doing real research

421
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,400
when half the people on the
program don't believe it will

422
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,800
work.
He said, now keep that in mind.

423
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,720
He said.
Most of you engineers will think

424
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,840
it's the other guys stuff that
won't work.

425
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960
Yeah.
That's the way I felt about the

426
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,160
engine.
I'm like, well, but you got to

427
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,440
remember they, I've got the guys
that are going to fly this and

428
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,160
said Dickens, you know, we
always buy our engines, don't

429
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,280
you?
We don't make them.

430
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,320
We bought our power plants from
Pratt, Whitney, Holds, Royce or

431
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,720
whoever.
And you're like, OK, but they

432
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,120
seriously were like, OK, the guy
with the bicycle who rode it out

433
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,560
on the flight line, Bert wanted
me to bring it out.

434
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320
He said that's got to be right
ridden up and down the flight

435
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,200
line and and of course the man,
the tower called and said you

436
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,480
boys need to get off the flight
line with your rocket bike.

437
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,960
The 1:30's you're running under
are quite expensive.

438
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,400
True story.
But that's the fun factor.

439
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,040
It was all about, you know, we
didn't this thing is like 12,000

440
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,160
lbs of thrust by the way.
They're coming out of the back

441
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,080
of this and here I am with a
little 200 LB thrust rocket

442
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,400
bike.
And that's as close as they're

443
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,440
going to get to what we're
doing.

444
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,760
Until we fire a full size motor
on the ground, people would take

445
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,600
anything they can get to kind of
fill their gap of like, what is

446
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,200
this going to be like?
So even a rocket bike was

447
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,600
entertaining and, and I was
like, it's the same propellant

448
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,880
we're using, y'all.
It's, it's yeah, so you're,

449
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,440
you're right.
I mean, it, it, you know, guys

450
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,160
like Paul Allen and and even
Elon, you know, they made their

451
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,160
billion hood again.
So if they lose it all, they're

452
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,320
going to go do something else,
right?

453
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,040
So they're at that point where
they're willing to take the

454
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,480
risk.
And by the way, Elon did not be

455
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,520
successful with the satellite
launch or his rockets till I

456
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,840
think it was 2008 or 9.
Now we did ours in 2004, because

457
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,360
it was Paul Allen.
People started pouring

458
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:03,320
investment into commercial
space.

459
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,640
That's where it kicked off.
And was it?

460
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,160
Wasn't Elon by himself?
It was 2004, this spaceship.

461
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,920
I bet.
Yeah.

462
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,560
Well, certainly there needs to
be a trailblazer.

463
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,440
Someone needs to give
permission.

464
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,960
There has to be 1 crazy one, one
guy that says it's crazy enough

465
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,360
that it just might work, that
that is credible.

466
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:29,680
And every, there's always that
one person that that can kind of

467
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,080
change the tide.
And it's, it's incredible what

468
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,880
the power of one man with a
little bit of influence can do.

469
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,120
Or one woman of obviously, but
one human with a, with a, with a

470
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,880
little bit of influence can do.
Because I think, and I've

471
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,360
noticed this on a anecdotal
level, especially as from a

472
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,440
teacher, from a teacher's
perspective, that and also as a

473
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,720
father, I've noticed even with
my three-year old and one year

474
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240
old, less than one year old.
But when you show that there are

475
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,280
high expectations because you
know that they're capable of

476
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,800
more, people very often rise up
to the occasion.

477
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,440
But if you set the bar low and
make it easy to, to, to exceed

478
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,640
standards, then people are very
comfortable just settling for

479
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,400
comfort.
Accolade good enough and and I

480
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,080
think that when you see someone
a billionaire or someone

481
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,760
grounded like in Microsoft,
someone that is in a more you

482
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,880
know that it's an industry that
I think a lot of people find to

483
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,520
be more tangible and more
relevant and a little bit more

484
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,920
institutional or or mainstream
then and then he says something

485
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,440
like let's go to space that
could that that that that

486
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,800
garners a lot of attention and
it's a very gutsy thing to do

487
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,360
because I could also and people
have ruined their lives and

488
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,600
ruined their reputations and.
Oh, absolutely.

489
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,200
Many times, you know, the far to
Rutan succeeding.

490
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:44,920
It was the the thing people
would say if you want to make a

491
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,960
small fortune, start with a big
one and get into this ice

492
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,760
company.
Nobody was making money and I'm

493
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,840
telling you it's it was a it was
a game changer moment and it was

494
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,360
a big deal.
We did it 2 times within two

495
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,840
weeks.
By the way, we had we had

496
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,800
probably 20 or 30,000 or more
out there more.

497
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,640
Have you watching?
You know, my friend Glenn, he

498
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,840
was a patriot from the Army and
he had a big American flag and

499
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,160
he carried that out there and
handed that to Mike Melville

500
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,080
when he landed.
And they can't.

501
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,440
They had that flag out there.
On top.

502
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Of that skip standing on it and
that was all Glenn, man, that's

503
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,760
the friend that died in an
accident in 2007 after after I

504
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,840
left, there was a nitrous
accident.

505
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,000
But the point is your
individuals can make a huge

506
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,360
difference.
And Glenn was very patriotic.

507
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:37,960
And that was the American dream
with the guy who flew it holding

508
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,120
that flag.
It said government Zero.

509
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,240
And it's that's brutal, but it's
still in what really made Elon

510
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,320
successful.
Was it just a rocket?

511
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,840
No.
How do you think it would take

512
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,400
him to be the richest man on the
planet had he not decided he

513
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,560
needs to sell data?
And it's really about

514
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,080
satellites.
It's about networks.

515
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,840
That's what he knew.
He was his customer, period.

516
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560
If he had waited on other
people's rides and organically

517
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,080
grew it, there would be a lot
more competitors in that, in

518
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,680
those lanes around him.
Do you agree with that?

519
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,200
So he really, he really knew
that he needed to be his own

520
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,200
customer, his own payloads, and
that was smart.

521
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Very.
Smart Well, I think that I think

522
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,320
a lot of people, especially
people that are are comfortable

523
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,560
bouncing around from business to
business, often find the find

524
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,520
ways to have businesses support
themselves.

525
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,000
It's a game.
It's it's a literally game as

526
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,400
old as you know, even agent
businesses, you know, you have

527
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,440
you, you get you.
I mean it goes.

528
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,320
Coal miners hi coal miners in
the coal miners store and you

529
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,840
have your own currency and.
Yeah, that the, the, the

530
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,960
assisted living homes where they
also own the, you know, where

531
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,240
they also own the companies that
do the laundry, that they do

532
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,520
laundry for the assisted living.
They also own the companies

533
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,080
that, that sell the, the, what
do you call it, the PPE, the,

534
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:06,560
the, the protective equipment.
And, and then they also made own

535
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,400
insurance company that insures
them, you know, and then all of

536
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,360
a sudden, you know, you have
four or five different

537
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,880
businesses that are all, they're
all washing one another's hands

538
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,840
and everything is supporting
itself.

539
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,800
And, you know, obviously
there's, I would say obviously

540
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,080
some potential conflicts of
interest and issues that could

541
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,000
come up, but people get a lot
done like that.

542
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,240
People really build enormous
empires that are that they just

543
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,960
kind of support themselves and
feed themselves.

544
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,520
And it's, it's, it's incredible
to see.

545
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,680
You're right, you're right.
You know, when I went to, I went

546
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,480
and visited Elon's company, me
and some friends.

547
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,400
And it was the Falcon one that
was a six foot diameter rocket.

548
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,640
And he says this is the last
one.

549
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,120
He said if we don't make it, I
am out of business, I'm out of

550
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,160
money.
So he was down to one launch

551
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,720
that made her break them.
And my friend in Huntsville

552
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,360
works for the Army.
He did the small cube, sat and

553
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,400
Elon flew it.
I think it was the second

554
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,880
mission.
He said it hit the beach, he

555
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,560
kind of fell over and, and that
Elon, you know how he is, he's

556
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,200
kind of a little bit on
spectrum.

557
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,080
He brought that little satellite
in to John, my friend who was

558
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,560
running the program.
He said, oh, here's your

559
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,160
satellite.
It was a, it's like no

560
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,880
sensitivity.
And it 'cause he, I had lunch

561
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,760
with him race like he's like,
well, well, here's your

562
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,920
satellite.
At least we got that back and

563
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,560
but Elon, you know when I was
trying to sell my company in

564
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,160
2009, Orion, after I started,
after I came back from this, my

565
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,560
company took off.
We were a propulsion company,

566
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,800
Huntsville and we were all over
the news.

567
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,280
If I took you around, you'd see
articles all over that wall.

568
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,760
They've cut my company.
Our company was great.

569
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,720
We did some great things, Elon.
The name of the company.

570
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,600
Orion Propulsion.
Orion propulsion if anyone wants

571
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,680
to look that up just for.
Yeah, but I sold it to

572
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,120
Dianetics.
They were a home grown defense

573
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,880
company in Huntsville, pretty
big.

574
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,760
They're now owned by by.
Palantir.

575
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,760
And that's it.
Yeah, light us, light us.

576
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,360
But The thing is, man, the I was
ready to get out for a few

577
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,800
reasons.
We were about 50 people and I

578
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,000
was getting far away from the
hardware.

579
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,000
And now I'm up there kissing
babies and up in DC trying to

580
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,800
save up these big programs with
Boeing.

581
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,160
And, and I'm just like, Oh my
gosh, we're still testing

582
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,120
rockets.
And I don't even know what

583
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,480
they're doing down there.
Somebody's probably going to get

584
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,200
hurt.
And, and I, because I've been

585
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,560
around, you got to remember in
the 70s when I lost Glenn, Glenn

586
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,080
and I had a company we're
rolling and we're testing

587
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,640
nitrous and Rutan calls me and
said, hey, we've had an Apollo

588
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,360
fire.
We've lost Glenn and some others

589
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,040
have been injured.
And I'm on my way back up to to

590
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,400
the scaled.
But the point is everything's

591
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,520
real, man.
When you're doing stuff and

592
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,280
people, people are being killed
and it's like, I can't have that

593
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,320
going on.
It's keep you up at night, man.

594
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,160
It really if you're not in the
trenches with your team because

595
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,320
you're too busy doing Oh yes,
9100, trying to win the next

596
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,880
contract, all that stuff.
It's tough And and I talked to

597
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Elon's people about buying us by
the way, And at the time, at the

598
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,320
time it was Gwen Shotwell, who's
now still running it.

599
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,360
She's the president, she's
running it.

600
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,720
She she was there then she said
we would be interested,

601
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,800
especially with politics in
Alabama.

602
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,120
And I said because we can make
hardware, we're doing it for

603
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,640
Boeing.
He said well, I'm.

604
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,040
Going to ask how come to Elon
that that never ended up in

605
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,680
Huntsville.
Well, he said.

606
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680
She said Elon was in a ugly
divorce and it it really was not

607
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,360
the best time to bring this into
the mix.

608
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,480
I ended up I ended up.
Dealing with him.

609
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,480
Well, at the launch, one of his
successful launches, I was out

610
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,960
of Colorado Springs and I'm
behind him outside, and he had

611
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,920
his capsule there.
Yeah, that's right, Our booster.

612
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,400
And I said, hey, Eli, that's a
great launch.

613
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,960
He turned around.
He, he looked at me and he's

614
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,000
like, he's like, you know, he
didn't really say anything.

615
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,480
He's like, he kind of just blew
through his mouth and like

616
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,400
didn't know He's like whatever,
you know, he, he, he was

617
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,920
definitely I, I, I normally it
would have been like that guy's

618
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,800
a jerk, but I knew that's just
comes with the territory, the

619
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Asperger's.
Did you, did you read the by the

620
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,480
did you read briefly the
biography that what's his name

621
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,040
wrote about him?
The same guy that did Einstein

622
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,200
and Steve Walter Isaacson?
Sorry, the Isaacson biography on

623
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,680
on Elon Musk.
I have his book over there.

624
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,240
I like to.
It's the one.

625
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,560
It's one of his first books that
was out.

626
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,160
More like it looks like a Tony
Stark kind of book.

627
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,080
I know you're talking about the
previous Elon book.

628
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,000
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

629
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,680
But you know, I've worked with
some of his principles on some

630
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,160
projects, by the way, the first
ten people.

631
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,840
But I've, I, you know, a lot of
us all were in amateur rocket

632
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,360
magazines back in the day.
We were out in Mojave just

633
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,840
flying rockets for a week.
And a lot of his engineers were

634
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,560
literally arrogant people trying
to do something fun on a

635
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,640
weekend.
And they were really doing some

636
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,800
cool stuff.
And I, in fact, I got a bunch of

637
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
the magazines right over there.
My steam rocket was featured in

638
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,200
their 2 pages and the article
was called Hot and Sticky see me

639
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,600
and it was all about the steam
rocket and the artwork they did.

640
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,040
They pointed it sideways and put
wheels on it like it was a train

641
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,800
is a cool article, but but you
know it's it's it's so

642
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,280
different.
When I came off this program to

643
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,280
come to Huntsville, they had me
front page top of the Huntsville

644
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,480
engineering put this thing in
space.

645
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,760
It's like, man, now people are
starting to pay a little more

646
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,960
attention.
This is commercial and this is

647
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,560
in Huntsville, you know, NASA
town.

648
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,520
It's like I want to really not
it's not loud, but NASA was

649
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,200
feeding me.
You know, they're good, they're

650
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,600
good partner.
And and so it was this bitter

651
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,280
sweet kind of deal, but they
did.

652
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,600
But the but the papers did a
great job representing me what I

653
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,600
had done.
That's really nice.

654
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,639
I wanted, I wanted to touch on
something you said earlier,

655
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,639
which was that you felt that
there are times where things

656
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,360
kept you up at night, where
there are real stakes in things

657
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,120
that that in the work that
you're doing.

658
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,080
And there's two ways that I,
there's a couple ways I think

659
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,040
that people perceive
breakthroughs, especially in

660
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,520
science and technology.
And that's consequentialism,

661
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,800
which as Carmelo Anthony puts it
in it from the NBA, there's no

662
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520
such thing as a bad shot that
goes in as in as, as long as you

663
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,080
get the results you're looking
for, everything along the way,

664
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,040
it justifies it.
And I disagree personally.

665
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,239
My personal approach is you can
never really know what the

666
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,800
outcome was or how you got
there.

667
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,280
The only thing you could really
control is the morality of your

668
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,040
behaviour along the way.
And I think that those opposing

669
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,600
philosophies are two
philosophies that are really at

670
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,080
the root of a lot of the
conflict that's been going on,

671
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,760
particularly in this part.
And you know, in, in, in, in, in

672
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,800
this, your part of the world in
propulsion and in space science

673
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,560
and in because there's no
question that military touches

674
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,920
on this too.
And there's no question that

675
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,320
weapons touch on this.
You mentioned or in Soto weapons

676
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,520
company.
So you know, my so so my

677
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,640
question is, how do you, how do
you, how do you navigate that?

678
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,640
How do you feel about that?
What's your perception on morals

679
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,880
when and and ethics when it
comes to the type of science

680
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,120
that you're involved in?
You know, we like, I work for a

681
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,520
company in Maine and we have an
air breathing technology that's

682
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,840
like a just think a jet engine,
but no moving parts for a upper

683
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,600
stage.
You know, the pro that I was

684
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,360
running, the company who started
it.

685
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,640
He's always wanted to put small
cube sats into orbit cheaply,

686
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,960
small bread sized basket.
And that is the that is his

687
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,760
dream, eventually.
But for what purpose?

688
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,000
What would that?
Accomplish because a lot of

689
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,360
times when we have things going
on in the world, you don't need

690
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,520
a satellite in Leo.
You just need it for a little

691
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,040
while to see what's going on in
the perimeter or in an area.

692
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,960
Could be for monsoon monitor, it
could be for anything.

693
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,000
A lot of things could be for the
military that are getting a

694
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,600
little local theater doing
stuff, but they have to call the

695
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,440
Air Force to get data.
They have to go to the different

696
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,000
agencies and by the time they
get everything back, there's the

697
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,000
there's the, let's just say the
the components are the pieces

698
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,680
have been moved on a chess
board.

699
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,800
The Army guy was telling you
about the cube sack guy flown on

700
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,600
Elon's rocket.
It was him who came to me said,

701
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,680
hey, we need a small rocket to
launch within a 30 minute call

702
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,920
up to put something in a low
Earth orbit and I need to do it

703
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,800
for under $1,000,000.
And he said, Tim, can you do

704
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,240
that?
I said, I'll think about it.

705
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,720
And I did.
And there is another nitrous

706
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,120
liquid rocket I did for the
Army, but now my friend was

707
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,600
wanting to fly those size
satellites.

708
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,840
And then it's a really deep
technology.

709
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,160
So I'm working hypersonics and
there's a lot of applications.

710
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,320
One of them is kind of neat is
you don't have to.

711
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,120
When you're flying Mach 5 and
you hit something, you don't

712
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,080
need an explosive, you don't
need a, you don't have a bunch

713
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,400
of stuff in your bunker that
goes boom because the air is in

714
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,360
the sky and you're most of what
you need.

715
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,440
You're just burning a little
fuel to go fast.

716
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,400
It's so it's some cool physics
and I'm enjoying it.

717
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,920
But back to there's a lot of
application for rockets.

718
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,000
Look at all the commercial stuff
I did.

719
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,400
You know, we got stuff hanging
in Smithsonian.

720
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Now you got Branson who they
built spaceship to same company

721
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,480
and they brought me in for some
problems.

722
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,640
And in fact, Branson gives me a
shout out in his book and I

723
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,120
didn't know that, but I'm in
there.

724
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,840
Really gives me more credit than
I wanted to be credited for.

725
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,640
But nonetheless, I.
Didn't take it now that you got

726
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,560
it.
Well, like say what is education

727
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,400
all that drive home about but he
knew better than anyone where

728
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,880
what went where and and and da
da da.

729
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,560
So it's like a sharp 2 edged
sword or something you know but

730
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,680
it's OK, I don't care.
It's more to me about you can

731
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,240
judge me after I'm dead if I
made a difference and then be

732
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,560
between then and then I'm on a
journey.

733
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,880
I'll do the best I can and if if
I'm relevant, we'll let others,

734
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,680
the historians decide what that
looks like.

735
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,680
That's sort of what I live by
it.

736
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,280
I don't try to hit a home run.
I said we do that even my with

737
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,320
my company when someone would
say, hey, man, we really are the

738
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,320
best.
And I and I didn't want people

739
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,720
to get too comfortable because
accidents happen.

740
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,920
I'd say, you know, we're pretty
good, but we need to always stay

741
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,240
on top of our game.
And I do, I think we're very

742
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,040
competitive.
They got some, but you really do

743
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,000
need to balance it because
because I'm, you know, hearing

744
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,680
him talking to Rutan, who used
to dog NASA and everyone say now

745
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,400
we're doing this cheap.
And then we've got people we're

746
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,880
burying out here because we
allowed them to go out there and

747
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,120
stand next to a tank while we
let nitrous come out.

748
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,400
We weren't burning anything, but
it still blew up.

749
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,320
So we don't need people out
there unnecessarily until we

750
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,400
understand things.
So those experiences I take back

751
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,960
to my company.
So you say what keeps you up is,

752
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,760
is thinking, I know nitrous
oxide.

753
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,840
I'm I'm a I've been a subject
matter expert on it for a wind

754
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,280
towel for hypersonics over a few
years ago.

755
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,000
But they have a call you in
something blows up and you're

756
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,080
not even, you don't even have a
flame out there and and what

757
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,480
happened?
And then you got burnt saying

758
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,320
we're going to share everything
with you, keep you stay off your

759
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,040
bikes and trucks, keep your
daughter off her rocket bike.

760
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,360
Whoever tells you keep your
daughter off a rocket bike.

761
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,360
But but he knew that we like to
have fun.

762
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,480
But he was, it was a wake up
call, man.

763
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,560
It's like he says, we're going
to share everything with you,

764
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,720
you know, and within a few days,
I'm at a funeral with Glenn and

765
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,160
Glenn's mom.
And he's there, you know, and,

766
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,360
and she's saying, Hey, did they
protect my son Tim?

767
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,800
Because I'm having to sign
something, say I'm not going to

768
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,400
sue him.
And I'm like, I've been working

769
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,920
in Huntsville for three years on
my own company.

770
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,960
I don't know, but I talked to
Glenn weekly and I think he was

771
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,640
pretty smart.
So I didn't even know the

772
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,320
details.
Well, then ten days later,

773
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,800
Northrop closes on a purchase of
them.

774
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,000
Exactly.
So I probably would have dug in

775
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,720
a little deeper, but I didn't
know.

776
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,280
But she says, should I sign
this, they're going to pay for

777
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,320
everything to come home.
I think it was like $30,000.

778
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,680
You know, the next time she
asked me to come over, I want

779
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,640
you to look through Glenn stuff.
You know, there's this rocket go

780
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,600
Kart and I just didn't, I didn't
really want, I didn't want, I

781
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,120
didn't want to take this stuff,
man.

782
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,760
It was not.
But the point is this is your

783
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,760
family, man.
So you you say, does it keep me

784
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,680
up at night?
Well, when you learn something

785
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,080
that maybe you're not as smart
as you think, you're lucky that

786
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,480
you didn't get.
You made it through a few rocket

787
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,760
flights on your bike.
Yeah.

788
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,840
And you realize, boys, we need
that data from Northrop now.

789
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,200
And I'm thinking Northrop is
never going to share that with

790
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,560
me because there's too much
liability, even though Rutan

791
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,040
says we're going to share it all
with you.

792
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,400
I did get a letter that said
here's some rules, but they

793
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,320
shared it with all the public.
So the point is, big business,

794
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,440
you know this, They're not going
to write a handbook to tell you

795
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,320
how to go burn 20,000 LB rocket
motors with nitrous at high

796
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,840
pressure.
People that make nitrous are not

797
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,200
going to do that.
They're not going to go say,

798
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:30,480
with your 6 inch pipe feeding
your ��80,000 thrust motor, Mr.

799
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Virgin, you don't you.
Here are some things you got to

800
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,960
watch out for the people that
make it.

801
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,840
No rules for a specific rate of
which it's made.

802
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,680
But to use it at high flow
rates, hundreds of pounds a

803
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,400
second, it's not.
There's not been a book written

804
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,360
on this stuff.
So right, unless you go do a lot

805
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,320
of data and testing to failure.
By the way, if you don't test

806
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,560
stuff till failure, you don't
know where the edges are.

807
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:58,400
You might.
What is?

808
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,120
What is testing till failure?
There's one of my favorite

809
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,160
Calvin and Hobbes comics.
I don't know if you know, if

810
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,680
you're familiar, I was when
they're crossing a bridge that

811
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,400
says weight limit, you know, say
15 tons and Calvin goes, dad,

812
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,800
how do they know the how do they
know the weight limit?

813
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,120
And his dad says they keep on
driving heavier and heavier

814
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,200
trucks across it until the
bridge collapses.

815
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560
And then they and then they
weigh the last truck and then

816
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,960
they rebuild it and set the
limit.

817
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,880
Yeah, with a sample size of 1
and then the next one that

818
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,600
breaks, well, that's two data
points.

819
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,200
Right, So what does testing to
failure mean from a scientific

820
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,720
perspective?
Well, it, it means that it means

821
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:43,960
that you better understand, like
for instance, if you have water

822
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,960
hammer when you slam a valve, if
you want to know what the

823
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,120
adiabatic heating is and the
compressive heating.

824
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,480
If you want to know, for
instance, if you if you if you

825
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,360
take Teflon and one of these, I
want to show you something right

826
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:02,280
here which is relevant.
This, this valve right here.

827
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,720
Yeah.
This valve is made by a company

828
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:07,280
called Murata.
They've been around since the by

829
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,680
the 40s.
They fly on Elon's rockets. 1/3

830
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,200
of all the valves are made by
Murata on Elon's rockets.

831
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,760
Do you see how this valves kind
of split open?

832
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,800
Yeah, sure.
This was a nitrous oxide

833
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,480
accident.
No valve.

834
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,840
Was rated for 3000 PSI.
The nitrous was at about 500

835
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,680
PSI.
Do you see that?

836
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,640
You see that burn marks?
OK, Would this happen?

837
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,640
This happened.
I sent this to Rutan after I was

838
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,960
back in Huntsville and I sent to
Glenn.

839
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,600
I said I don't know the root
cause of this, but this is a lot

840
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,320
of energy.
And by the way, this was not

841
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,840
liquid nitrous in here, it was
gas.

842
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,160
So it was low density, not a lot
of mass.

843
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,960
Well, as it turned out, this is
Teflon wire right here, Teflon

844
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,400
coated wire.
And guess what, if this if this,

845
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,840
if this 24 volts gets on here
and it did on the ground, it'll

846
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,920
short it out and start heating
it like a like a heating element

847
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,880
on a blow dryer.
Guess what happens when Teflon

848
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,120
gets to about 600��?
It creates something called

849
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,880
fluorine.
Fluorine is the most brutal

850
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,240
oxidizer on the planet.
It'll eat anything.

851
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:20,960
It'll auto ignite anything.
If you breathe a little bit of

852
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,520
it, it will give you a heart
attack.

853
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:23,760
Really.
Yes, Sir.

854
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,840
But what I'm saying is that
little fluorine in there and a

855
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,520
little bit of a leak of nitrous,
they got together and they

856
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,760
created a bomb in this little
cover.

857
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,600
There was a connector here.
In this state blew.

858
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,480
Apart because of something silly
but it's still this is what I'm

859
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,080
saying.
You better understand everything

860
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,080
because nitrous is a mono
propellant.

861
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,560
That means it can make a lot of
energy without any fuel.

862
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,880
It's the heat of formation, the
stuff it took to bond it

863
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,280
together is a lot of energy and
you get your back when you break

864
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,440
the bonds and you break the
bonds is when you do it with a

865
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,120
catalyst.
You can use a, you could use a

866
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,680
catalyst like acetone, a little
bit of heat.

867
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,200
You lower that activation
energy, the more catalyst is

868
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:13,680
that's surrounding it.
But it's, it's a beast.

869
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,800
So you have to treat it.
You have to.

870
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,280
You don't just say they use it
at the dentist office all the

871
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,600
time.
It's got to be OK.

872
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,840
Our kids, they've also lost
people all operating tables,

873
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,840
whether you know it or not, from
a hiccup on a table where

874
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,840
they're using nitrous, right?
Something set off the nitrous

875
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,720
and they had a little micro
explosion that that inflicted

876
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,320
other damage.
So you could go do your homework

877
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,840
on that and you'll think, whoa,
I didn't know that.

878
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,600
It's one is the point is we're
dealing we're we're writing the

879
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,120
book on ways to get to space
cheaply.

880
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,400
And, and one thing that Bert
didn't like about everybody

881
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,680
else's solution is they were
going to have to have cryogenic

882
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:04,080
super cold oxidizers.
I mean -300 -, 270�� F.

883
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,200
These composites are, they never
worked with anything that cold.

884
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,240
So they didn't want.
Bert loved the idea of room

885
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:14,200
temperature or liquid nitrous.
So I hate to digress, but this

886
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,360
is, this is the kind of
knowledge that keeps you up at

887
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,200
night because I still work with
this, with this liquid a lot.

888
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,720
Nitrous right?
In, in, in, in programs I was

889
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:29,760
on, they were even violating all
the MSDS and everything.

890
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,920
They were wanting more energy
into the working fluid.

891
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,680
And when you get more energy in,
you can break the bonds.

892
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,800
So people would say, well, it'll
probably be OK, won't it?

893
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,560
And I said we are beyond the
bounds of my knowledge because I

894
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,800
want to follow the rules unless
we create a new data set and we

895
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,640
can create it at a small scale,
but without those, without doing

896
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,200
a scientific statistical
analysis for each experiment.

897
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,920
Not going to happen anymore.
I'm not comfortable, so when

898
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,880
people want to make me a safety
officer on something that's

899
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,760
dangerous, I'm like, I am not
going to be the rubber stamp

900
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,640
guy.
Yeah, yeah.

901
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,160
I hear you.
It's a huge, it's a huge way.

902
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,520
It's a huge, it's a huge way to
bear and it's a massive

903
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,560
responsibility.
Well, people are like, well,

904
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,040
you're, you're just trying to
impede progress.

905
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,880
I said, don't tell that to the
guy who straddles a a tank, a

906
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,600
nitrous and rides it down the
road at 60 miles an hour.

907
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,280
Don't tell that to the guy
that's a rocket trunk with 3000

908
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,320
lbs of thrust.
Don't tell me that I don't want

909
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,400
to have progress right.
They they don't hold water with

910
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,680
me.
I'm totally with.

911
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,560
I'm totally with you, man.
I think there's a fine line and

912
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,920
I think that anyone that says
that is kind of just trying to

913
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,680
make you feel bad about it and
manipulate into doing something

914
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,360
you don't feel like doing.
And that's that's that's one O 1

915
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,240
as far as I'm.
Concerned pull up a picture of

916
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,920
my friend Glenn, say hey, here's
a guy just watching the tank,

917
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,760
little valve open up and, and
it's and it blows up and, and

918
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,320
three seconds, 3 seconds, yeah,
10,000 lbs of nitrous.

919
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,240
Yeah, crazy.
Crazy.

920
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,400
Oh my gosh, I can't imagine
crazy.

921
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,880
I wanted to ask you because you
did some homework about this and

922
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,600
I and I would love to let you to
let you off the leash with this

923
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:15,440
is a little bit of the history
of this of this field because I

924
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,680
really wanted to talk about
space a little bit too.

925
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,840
And I think we'll get to space
through this.

926
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,360
But I do want to make sure that
we hit this because I am really

927
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,280
interested in the history and
I'm curious what you dug up and,

928
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,080
and I would love to, I'd love to
learn a little bit more about

929
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,200
that.
OK, so we talked about paths to

930
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:37,960
to our success as a nation.
I can talk about the American

931
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,800
history.
So you want to go back to maybe

932
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,800
some of the the against the odd
situations that that our space

933
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,560
program rocket program started
and how we almost didn't get

934
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,760
there.
We're almost probably defeated

935
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:58,960
because 1 crazy person was the
self-taught guy was actually got

936
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,920
us away from rocket motors that
were blowing up all of our yeah,

937
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,000
that was a guy named Jack
Parsons.

938
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,400
He was a self-taught chemist.
He made special effects for

939
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,840
Disney.
Not yeah, Disney down in the L

940
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,200
not Disney.
But at the time it was Hollywood

941
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,760
down to down in, you know, down
in Hollywood.

942
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:24,000
And his name was Jack Parsons
and, and he was really one of

943
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,680
the founders, original founders
of the JPL Jet Propulsion

944
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,240
Research Lab, Pasadena.
He, he was also part of the

945
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:36,960
American Rocket Society, which
was a amateur group fighting

946
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,280
rocket motors down there in the
Aurora Canyon out there right

947
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,320
next to where JPL is today is a
Canyon where water would flood

948
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,360
out through there.
So you'll see pictures.

949
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,120
This is way before, this is back
when Robert Goddard was in that

950
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,280
same era.
You know, Robert Goddard was the

951
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,760
American liquid rocket guy who
got the first liquid rockets to

952
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,320
high altitude.
That was Americans when the

953
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,800
Germans came about, you know,
and they later ended up in

954
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,800
Alabama eventually.
Yes, Sir.

955
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,240
Which year, what year, around
what time period is this?

956
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,240
OK, well, the Jack Parson stuff
was happening.

957
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,400
Early 19.
Oh, it's, it was in the, IT was

958
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,920
in 1930s and 40s.
OK.

959
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,440
This is getting to War Two.
You got to remember Robert

960
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,640
Goddard was, you know, he goes
back to the turn of the century

961
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,320
a little after, you know, doing
liquid rockets.

962
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,520
But he didn't, he was not a team
player.

963
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,400
So he only did stuff with
Guggenheim grants and a few

964
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,400
people.
And he moved slow and was

965
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,480
methodical.
So he was not going to be the

966
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,360
guy like Elon to take us into
the the big wave of space

967
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,000
exploration.
He was a tinkerer and a very

968
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,320
smart man.
Doctor Goddard.

969
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,120
I've read all of his papers.
I'm in my library.

970
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,920
But but the point is military
started during War Two there

971
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,680
they needed some rocket motors
to help airplanes take off

972
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,200
because they had a load of they
had tanks on them, they had all

973
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,240
sort of stuff.
So they say, hey, you're a

974
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:07,200
rocket guy, we need you to build
solid rocket motors.

975
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,280
And that was not his wheelhouse.
His his wheelhouse was gasoline

976
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,080
engines with liquid oxygen.
That's mostly what he flew.

977
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,280
So the point is he was relevant
in history, by the way, because

978
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,520
when the Germans, we finally
caught the Germans up to World

979
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,960
War 2 and they were doing V
twos, they said, what did you

980
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,920
learn to build rockets?
They said from your doctor

981
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,560
Goddard and his paper.
Yes, Sir.

982
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,640
Yes, Sir, the papers.
The Germans got their signs from

983
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,160
from from.
Americans.

984
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:36,320
Yes.
Where did you learn to build

985
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,040
liquid rockets?
They said from your doctor

986
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,040
Goddard.
We read his papers truthfully.

987
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:49,240
So like a lot of history, people
are more respected by our peers

988
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,440
elsewhere.
I have a friend who's a

989
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,560
microbiologist.
He's wrote 400 papers.

990
00:51:53,560 --> 00:52:00,360
The Russians just exalt him and
gave him a PhD honorary and he's

991
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,080
had lunch with him yesterday,
and that's another story.

992
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,760
It's another guy you ought to
have on here.

993
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,680
He's 84.
He's brilliant, but he'll tell

994
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,120
you origins of life in the
papers and the he's done well.

995
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,560
He's, he's going to be
fascinating because he's done a

996
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,840
lot of deep dives in Antarctica
with, with former moonwalkers

997
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:20,880
and he.
There's been.

998
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,560
Documentaries with Doctor Hoover
and.

999
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,480
That's his name, Doctor Hoover.
Richard Hoover, he's got a he's

1000
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,200
got a Wikipedia out there and we
had a four hour lunch yesterday

1001
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,240
and I had an enjoyable time and
he is going to tell you how he's

1002
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:42,200
got an experiment that Elon's
going to fly to prove what kind

1003
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,400
of life is on Mars because
there's certain kinds of

1004
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,760
proteins that we do not want to
bring back to this planet.

1005
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,280
So there are nurse yes Sir.
So he wants to, when they go for

1006
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,680
the early flight, he's, we've
got some little probes.

1007
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,960
In fact, he wants him and I to
go over to, to Turkey and

1008
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,520
present a paper on this in a few
months.

1009
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,000
And I'm more of the build, build
it.

1010
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,800
I am the prototype guy.
And he's the genius who's worked

1011
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,120
with Doctor von Braun and all
the Germans and, and beyond

1012
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,280
credible.
He's got he's got some stories

1013
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,520
too, about some UFO stuff that
happened when he was in Capcom.

1014
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,120
Really.
Yes, Sir.

1015
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,080
During Skylab, the the X-ray
telescope was his project.

1016
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,360
He was the principal engineer.
So he trained Owen Garrett how

1017
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,000
to use those instruments that he
was like at it was like he was

1018
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:37,120
down in Houston owned own
console when they were doing

1019
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,960
some things and there were some
bogeys that he said, we've got

1020
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,520
bogeys and they say come again
there.

1021
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,360
And now he's not talking to
Hoover.

1022
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,680
He's talking to the the other
guys.

1023
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,280
Hoover was doing the X-ray, but
still this was more about out

1024
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,360
the window.
And let's just say there's a

1025
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,400
story there and some of these
pictures disappeared.

1026
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,080
But they did make it into a book
that Hoover brought and he said

1027
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,200
these were grabbed by somebody
in the media quick enough.

1028
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,920
But but no, he said that, He
said after a few minutes, they

1029
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,800
said that.
He said, I, there's, there's

1030
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,760
several bogies and then, you
know, they're like, and then

1031
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,440
they came back and said Norad's
on it.

1032
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,920
Said we we copy Norad's
tracking, is what they said.

1033
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,800
What does that mean?
NORAD is a North American.

1034
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,520
If anybody's trying to attack
us, that's our nuclear.

1035
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,520
Wow, wow.
Our our most advanced defensive

1036
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,840
system or program.
Yeah, that's.

1037
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:34,480
Right.
Wow.

1038
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,880
Wow.
But anyway, we're going.

1039
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,160
To we're going to get mixed in
with you.

1040
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,960
I don't want to go down that
rabbit hole, but he is not a

1041
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,840
conspiracy guy and he told me
two or three stories that didn't

1042
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,120
add up that he'll he's willing
to share now and he's got

1043
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,560
pictures.
Wow.

1044
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,480
Yeah, he's a good one.
So I would love to talk to him.

1045
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,960
Yeah, so back to the early days
of rockets.

1046
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,720
Well, Doctor Goddard was making
black powder rockets and they

1047
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,520
kept blowing up.
You can't have these solid

1048
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,800
rockets lighting and then a lot
of them blowing up.

1049
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,280
So there's these guys that did a
lot of pyrotechniques down in

1050
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,200
Hollywood and they were the guys
that came together and said,

1051
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,840
yeah, we'll, we'll build those
solid rocket motors.

1052
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,640
And they so they were some
really kind of interesting

1053
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,880
people and they started doing
that for the military and they

1054
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,600
were the guys who started
Aerojet.

1055
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,160
There were several people, but
the company Aerojet was formed

1056
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,760
by self-taught chemist who built
special facts for Hollywood.

1057
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:40,400
He's the guy who got all into
the occult and was having had a

1058
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,000
home.
His Wikipedia page.

1059
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,280
What's that about?
Oh my gosh.

1060
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:49,840
Well, he's basically, he was a,
he was a very creative guy and

1061
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,240
he was a big empathizer with the
communist movement.

1062
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,440
And he had been reading about
this guy named Aleister Crowley

1063
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,240
over in England over maybe
Scotland.

1064
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,760
Anyways, he really respected
some of what he's doing, but he

1065
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,880
wanted to tap into the the ether
and the knowledge that there was

1066
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:13,000
promised through the techniques
that the occultist was using the

1067
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,560
South.
So he was, he ended up coming up

1068
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,160
with the formula to replace
black powder.

1069
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,560
And that formula was based on
fertilizer.

1070
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,800
It was based on asphalt, it was
based on mineral oil or the main

1071
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:29,920
ingredients.
So you remember I talked about

1072
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,880
asphalt?
Yeah, sure.

1073
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,040
I read a paper from the 50s from
the gausset of the work he did

1074
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,720
and it had the formula.
And that's when I saw that I

1075
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:42,520
said I think asphalt might be
the fuel for me.

1076
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:46,440
It came from that that guy.
And that's why I asked my wife.

1077
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,040
I said what is the energy in a,
in a gram of this and in terms

1078
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,400
of BTU.
But the point is I didn't really

1079
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,000
know all this history at that
point.

1080
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,480
By the way, I'm just sending an
old book from the called Jet

1081
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,960
Propulsion History.
So here he is now, the Nike

1082
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,240
missiles that protected us
during the Cuban Missile Crisis,

1083
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,760
A lot of those had this
propellant at them and sometime

1084
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,120
when it would get really hot,
that would drip out of the

1085
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,960
nozzles, this asphalt.
So that's a.

1086
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,160
This is, this is.
You don't want us.

1087
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,800
Tripping across from the sky do.
You.

1088
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:25,320
Yeah, well, I'm just saying it
took a bandit a a radical, a

1089
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,560
self-taught guy to come up with
what solved that problem.

1090
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,080
Goddess reliable rocket motors.
The problem with the black

1091
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,920
powder is it would crack the
grains would crack.

1092
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,280
You couldn't pack them tight
enough, but when you turn it to

1093
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,000
that's fault, there's
plasticizers and like I talked

1094
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,400
about.
So they ended up getting us

1095
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,880
through probably 20 years of
rocketry because of that guy who

1096
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,960
ended up getting fired
eventually and and ended up

1097
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,760
going back in the business and
he end up blowing himself up

1098
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,880
accidentally making fireworks.
They got that.

1099
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,000
They shot him down, pulled his
clearances.

1100
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,200
And then they said you can't be
working.

1101
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,960
You've had too much
collaboration with Satanist over

1102
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,920
the top Satanist in the country.
It's the same guy that that that

1103
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,240
Osborne Ozzy spoke sung about
it.

1104
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:19,280
One of his songs that a song
called Mr. Crowley, you know,

1105
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,400
talked about his black magic and
how you went down a bad path.

1106
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,200
He's basically saying, you know,
you're no good.

1107
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,680
You have to listen to it.
It's kind of an eerie song, but.

1108
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,160
But it was a popular one.
But So what happened is he had a

1109
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,240
big house and he got L Ron
Hubbard moved in with them.

1110
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,000
It was renting A renting a place
next to him.

1111
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,080
Yeah, Yeah.
L Ron Hubbard.

1112
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,800
L Ron Hubbard is the founder of
Sociology, Scientology.

1113
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,560
Scientology.
I'm so sorry, Scientology.

1114
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:57,240
Yeah, and the thing about it is
the first wife of Jack Parsons

1115
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,640
ended ended up kind of cheating
on him with that guy.

1116
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,200
And then he ended up Jack
Parsons end up marrying her

1117
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,840
sister, her younger sister.
What she moved in with him when

1118
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,760
she was 15 with both him and his
ex-wife.

1119
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,640
She had now was hanging out with
Hubbard and and she was 15.

1120
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,080
At 17 they got married.
This Jack Parsons married this

1121
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,920
girl, her sister she was brought
her dad abused her.

1122
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,560
It's all out there on the
Internet.

1123
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,760
This is this is there's a lot of
and she and heard her people

1124
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,360
were also practices of the black
magic her family.

1125
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,320
So it was kind of what drew her,
I think to him somehow.

1126
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,280
They used to have a lot of
meetings there in Pasadena.

1127
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,800
There was a place where these
communists and occultists would

1128
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,640
meet occasionally and do
whatever they do.

1129
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,720
It's out there.
I mean, I can send it to you

1130
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:54,360
later, but I've done a lot of,
you know, this occulting stuff,

1131
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:58,760
you know, it comes out, we know
people seek special gifts to be

1132
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,760
artists, to be great as a
musician.

1133
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,640
They'll publicly sometimes even
allude to it, you know, And so

1134
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,960
they'll do their thing for some
power and knowledge to be good

1135
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,480
at something.
So on one side there's they seek

1136
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,000
the dark forces over here.
You've got people that are

1137
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,840
getting dreams at night and like
Tussla, Tussla had these dreams

1138
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,840
and visions and that's where we
come up with the AC.

1139
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,440
That's where he came up with a
lot of his ideas.

1140
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,800
So there was definitely, you
know, there's a book he, he was

1141
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,320
reading in one of his famous
pictures and, and I, and I had

1142
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,000
that book.
In fact, I, I had earlier I'd

1143
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,840
try to make a copy of what
that's a little bit of the

1144
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,560
details my printer.
But the point is, about 3

1145
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,600
chapters in that book, instead
of it becoming the nature of

1146
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,640
light and telling us, you know,
the principles of what he

1147
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:54,320
thought were light was made-up,
they want you to start going in

1148
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,960
a deep state of where you let
your mind be cleared and tap

1149
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,760
into the knowledge and the
ether.

1150
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,040
And that's where Rock On said
no, I'm not going to get into

1151
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,560
all that.
Yeah.

1152
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,800
But the point is, so he was
seeking this and that was his

1153
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,400
favorite book, this famous book.
And this famous photo of him was

1154
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,160
fart with sparks all around him
sitting in a chair.

1155
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,040
That book, that book is, and you
can look it up.

1156
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,280
Just say, you know, famous book
Tesla's reading.

1157
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,240
And when he was doing that
famous shot.

1158
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,160
But it was had to do with the
nature of light, but also had to

1159
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,280
do with a lot of free
information to be great at

1160
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,840
something.
But that need in other words.

1161
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,240
Well, I'm saying you're seeking
something.

1162
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,320
You're seeking right right to
be, to receive a breakthrough

1163
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,840
for whatever it is you're you're
focused on.

1164
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,160
You're looking for answers
without really doing the hard

1165
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:47,600
work.
Yeah.

1166
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:52,200
So this actually kind of gets me
to one of the points we were

1167
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:57,600
talking about earlier, which is
play and science.

1168
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,240
And there's a dark side of it.
There's a dark side of play.

1169
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,960
There's a dark side of ways that
you can kind of break eggs or

1170
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,440
ways that you wander into there.
There's always a line and that

1171
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,400
line is very distinct.
And it doesn't mean that there's

1172
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,640
not knowledge on the other side
of that line, but there's always

1173
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,000
a price that you pay, right?
There's just like the price you

1174
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,560
paid to, to to have this
newfound understanding of the

1175
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,160
value of safety, for example,
and the stand, the value of the

1176
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,480
rubber stamp is something you
had to go through a personal

1177
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,480
tragedy to, to experience.
Yeah, it feels like with a lot

1178
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:37,360
of this stuff, with UFOs, occult
stuff, a lot of, and even if a

1179
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,640
lot of this is backed by
science, people have such a

1180
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,560
strong initial vehement reaction
to this.

1181
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,240
And I feel like some of it is
founded because I think there's

1182
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,240
some of it that really is dark
stuff that I think people or

1183
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,520
society as as a whole have
understanding.

1184
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:56,600
This is not something we want to
go near.

1185
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,760
And then there's the stuff that,
hey, like this UFO thing could

1186
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,680
be really interesting.
There's a lot of evidence,

1187
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,160
There's a lot of documentation.
There's a lot of people that

1188
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,440
have nothing to gain and
everything to lose by talking

1189
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:12,240
about it, except, you know,
before it's they seem to be

1190
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,000
wanting to search.
They're not trying to search for

1191
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,960
something dark.
They're trying to understand

1192
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,440
reality.
And this this shatters their

1193
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,200
sense of reality.
And so the question, you know,

1194
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,480
so, So what, what, what
whenever, whenever ends up

1195
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,760
happening is someone will say,
well, how does that happen?

1196
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,760
And the answer is, I don't know.
But the.

1197
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:34,320
Answer is sometimes you need LSD
to help you get there, sometimes

1198
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,880
you need something to not block
your conscious, sometimes you

1199
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,280
need to go down a path that if
you can't overdo it, you might

1200
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,120
end up with bigger problems in
your life.

1201
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:45,800
That's the that's the fear too,
right?

1202
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,480
That's the line between playing
and play in danger right there.

1203
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,440
But I mean, you have guys like
Epstein that that have been

1204
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,080
very, very involved in a cult
and science that are very

1205
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,840
involved in an anti gravity and
genetics and all this kind of

1206
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,040
crazy stuff.
And, and the cult and, and I, I

1207
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,480
can't imagine that these are
that they're completely divorced

1208
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,280
from one another and that
they're just two different

1209
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,120
segments that he just happens to
be interested in.

1210
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,160
I'm sure that there's some kind
of relationship between the two

1211
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:14,960
that that that led 1 into the
next.

1212
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,880
It seems to be there is a common
factor.

1213
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,720
You know, they want to call it
science, but it's like dark

1214
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,920
matter.
It's it's, it's a placeholder.

1215
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,760
It's not a description of, of,
of a structure of any matter

1216
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,320
that we've ever replicated.
We've never created in a lab.

1217
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,280
You know, it's like matter and
antimatter and, and, you know,

1218
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,960
opposite side, same coin.
Is it maybe they, they, the

1219
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,400
point is that that people tinker
with stuff.

1220
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,040
And the thing about tinkering
with, with advanced science, you

1221
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,240
got to remember we barely have
an image of even an electron, by

1222
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:54,280
the way, we, we, we, we
theorize.

1223
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,800
This is why they put physics in
philosophy.

1224
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,040
By the way, if you ever want to
know what physics, yes, it is.

1225
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,640
If you go to college and you
take physics, it's in the

1226
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,800
philosophy department.
I didn't know that.

1227
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:10,080
Yeah, because historically it's
been all about what you think's

1228
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,720
going to happen in the science
and the you apply.

1229
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,160
I mean, you're trying to stitch
together, but it has to do

1230
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,920
everything with the formation of
the universe all the way down to

1231
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,320
the particles that that we
interact with.

1232
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,800
It's all of it.
But at the same time, you bring

1233
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:26,680
math in as you find more
information and data and you try

1234
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,040
to stitch together theories.
But it's really those two are in

1235
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,040
the, in this philosophy
department.

1236
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:37,040
And, and the point is we, we,
we, we, we play with a lot of

1237
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,200
things that we can't see.
We do it all the time.

1238
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,520
I mean that, you know, go in a
hospital, a lot of devices

1239
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,840
operate well, it's an MRI or
whatever.

1240
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,320
They know the behavior of
different particles and they

1241
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,240
know how to spin them and and
they know how to get certain

1242
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,960
effects and they know how to
get, you know, just to visualize

1243
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,360
it really good and see it with
detail enough to know, well,

1244
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,280
that's cancer.
That's something else.

1245
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,360
And but a lot of it, if people
nowadays can buy a lot of

1246
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,320
surplus stuff, for instance,
parts from MRI's high voltage

1247
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,760
power supplies, they can get
those and they can take them

1248
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,240
home and they can do discharge,
They can do discharge voltages.

1249
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,560
That could be 2 and 3,000,000
volts.

1250
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,160
They can make big Tesla calls.
They can create a lot of

1251
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,920
ionizing radiation.
By the way.

1252
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,040
Do they have a detector?
Probably not, because the pulse

1253
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,680
is so short you probably would
never pick it up on cheap

1254
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:34,880
equipment.
I'm talking about a little

1255
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,800
handheld dosometer.
That's probably not going to do

1256
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,320
it.
But I'm saying all this because

1257
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,280
there are physics that we don't
just because you, you know, a

1258
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,040
little bit and you got a little
bit of money, you could really

1259
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,040
get yourself in trouble.
I have a friend who died of

1260
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,720
brain cancer.
He was a, he was a genius, very

1261
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,360
much about 300 patents.
His name is Larry Fullerton

1262
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,520
right here in town.
And I didn't know he passed

1263
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:01,600
away, but I saw a bunch of cool
books and some Transformers, big

1264
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,920
capacitors, powerful capacitors
on Facebook and I said who, who

1265
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,360
would have these?
So I went, I knew the guy and he

1266
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,000
said well, the family passed
away, the stuff he didn't want.

1267
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,280
So I ended up with a lot of his
library and they were particle

1268
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,200
physics, they were magnetic
fields.

1269
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,520
It was a lot of obscure stuff, a
lot of notes.

1270
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,680
He signed every book and I have
part of that here, most of it.

1271
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,080
And I have his, I have his
stuff.

1272
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,400
I'm like, who would have a
freaking capacitor?

1273
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:33,880
4000 volts or 30,000 volts that
has 600 kilojoules of purple?

1274
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,280
Larry was had programmable
magnet company, but Larry that

1275
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,760
brain cancer and by the way, and
some of the Larry stuff.

1276
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:45,880
I have a nice lab X-ray machine
from from a laboratory and he

1277
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,120
had plates, old photograph
plates.

1278
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:52,520
So Larry was definitely in some
of these books of his.

1279
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,240
They tell you how to do
photography type with the high

1280
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,080
frequency particles.
How did and what what's it take

1281
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:03,400
them with with gamma, gamma,
alpha, beta, all the stuff that

1282
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,160
you can't see.
The point is, he was playing

1283
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:07,360
with all that.
Right.

1284
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,400
What implications does that?
Does that mean for For what it?

1285
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,800
Means is Larry.
Larry was a, he's like, you

1286
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,560
know, some people that I've
interacted with through Amy,

1287
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:23,680
Amy, you know, Etheridge
Eskridge, Sorry, but you know,

1288
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,760
I, I came on her board and I got
to meet a lot of people that she

1289
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,760
was doing projects with.
Everybody thinks Amy's got to be

1290
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,960
the scientist.
Amy is the business person who

1291
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,240
has a very good accolade for
what people are doing in the

1292
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,040
businesses and.
She she wasn't, she was more of

1293
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,760
a business.
Woman, she had, she had, she had

1294
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,479
a advanced degrees, but she
didn't get a PhD in physics like

1295
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,399
her daddy.
And her daddy was a genius,

1296
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,600
Richard, and I know him.
I met him before I knew her

1297
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,240
through my dad who's a
physicist.

1298
01:08:55,359 --> 01:09:00,080
He was doing advanced plasma
physics and he met saw papers of

1299
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:03,600
Mr. Etheridge and he said, Tim,
you got to meet this guy.

1300
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,200
He's not like other people.
He's very applied.

1301
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:09,080
I don't waste your time much.
I was running my business at the

1302
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:13,439
time and my dad was building me
high voltage sparkers for Bob

1303
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,680
Bigelow for the space to light
it.

1304
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,560
And he wouldn't talk to Richard
about measuring high voltage

1305
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,840
plasma without affecting the
power out.

1306
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,319
How do you how do you measure
the power without, you know,

1307
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:28,240
it's like, you know, looking at
a particle and not affecting the

1308
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,520
the outcome.
But he said Richard is a genius.

1309
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,800
He said tell him you got to meet
him.

1310
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,040
So went out there and he was
working for Doctor Cole in the

1311
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,160
Advanced Propulsion group.
They were actually trying to get

1312
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,960
antimatter in a container and it
was very controversial.

1313
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,600
What's antimatter?
Well, it's the well, there's

1314
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,560
matter than they think.
There's the the antiparticles

1315
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,640
for different kinds of matter,
but it was a very controversial

1316
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,000
thing where they thought it
could create, some people

1317
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,640
thought you'd end up with a
black hole and you could suck

1318
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,160
the local suck us up locally in
a black hole.

1319
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,760
There were, you can look it up
about the work that Marshall was

1320
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,960
looking at, but there were a lot
of people scared to death and in

1321
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:13,040
the world about them doing that.
They they shut that down, but

1322
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,400
they were doing the Ning Li
experiment with the magnets that

1323
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,360
she was the one who formulated
that she could reduce gravity by

1324
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,280
spending this super magnet and
she can reduce gravity by 3%.

1325
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,800
And they ended up building
copies of that.

1326
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:31,320
Richard Amy's dad and a guy
named Glenn Robertson, he's a

1327
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:33,720
good friend of mine.
He's still doing magnets today.

1328
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,560
He's retired.
These guys are still very busy

1329
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,560
doing research on their own.
Yeah, no, they never stopped.

1330
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,320
They're going to die doing
research.

1331
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,720
They haven't stopped and they'll
do it on their budgets are

1332
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,960
sometimes people will come and
fund them.

1333
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,200
And that's a real problem
because people that are genius

1334
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:54,520
that worked some very serious
programs, a lot of those people

1335
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:58,120
usually get swept up by the Mick
or military military industrial

1336
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,560
complex.
And they have a lot of fun with

1337
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,200
some careers playing with stuff
they could only dream of.

1338
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:07,360
But these guys are NASAM.
So they're more commercial, but

1339
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:11,360
they're still doing some really
on the edge stuff and they

1340
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,280
can't.
But but The thing is, Amy was

1341
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:19,160
willing to take their brains and
do some real way out physics and

1342
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,240
commercialize it and give it to
the world.

1343
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,240
What you do, what we're trying
to accomplish.

1344
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:28,000
Well, that was the the that was
an antenna system that he

1345
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,800
developed using some bismuth and
some other materials that would

1346
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,160
have had some unusual effects
about.

1347
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,160
There were there were there were
mass change effects with this

1348
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,800
device, let's say.
Yeah, just imagine you having a

1349
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:48,760
type of antenna that you could
point to, let's say the moon and

1350
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,320
you're you're weighing this
thing, by the way, it's battery

1351
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,160
powered.
You're weighing it and you're

1352
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,320
seeing mass changes when you
point to different.

1353
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,840
Bodies mass changes.
Weight.

1354
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,640
Of a change in gravity around
that mass.

1355
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,840
There's a change happening local
that they could be up to 3 and

1356
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,680
4%.
And with.

1357
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,400
Don't it, don't ask me the
physics, I can just tell you it

1358
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,720
gets pretty heavy duty has to do
with the materials meta

1359
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:20,640
materials has to do with spin,
spin of of of particles and.

1360
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,720
But I'm I'm, I'm sorry, I'm
just, I'm, I'm trying to

1361
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,000
understand what the consequences
of what it means.

1362
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:28,200
No, I'm saying.
Less gravity.

1363
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,360
What does that mean?
That mean you can jump higher.

1364
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:32,720
That mean well, it could mean a
lot of things.

1365
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:36,480
You know, some people reduce
gravity local with eye on wind.

1366
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,880
OK, that's hot voltage plasma
and it's accelerating One

1367
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,560
Direction and it's air, it's
moving air, it's plasma, it's

1368
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:49,960
turning it the nitrogen into,
you know, to to to hot, hot gas

1369
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:54,080
glowing light glowing, you know,
plot and they're moving it to

1370
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:57,920
from like, you know, electrode
to an anode or what, or vice

1371
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,320
versa.
But that mean that is an example

1372
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:03,440
of people quote.
It looks like mass is changing

1373
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:05,400
if you're if you're measuring
thrust.

1374
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:11,440
So what I'm just saying is there
were a lot of interesting claims

1375
01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:14,640
that her dad spent a lot of time
on in this area.

1376
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,560
He didn't do it to fool himself.
I can assure you he don't.

1377
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:22,000
He's not like, hey, in this
cool, let me fake you.

1378
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,200
He's not, he's a scientist.
He's not a man of words.

1379
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,440
He didn't speak a lot.
He's just very, very into it.

1380
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,440
And so is Tony.
Tony's the same way now.

1381
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:34,440
He'll be speaking at AUAP
conference in Canada.

1382
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:39,720
Tony, about this.
We Tony Robertson, Glenn

1383
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:44,200
Robertson Tony, He's he's
presenting up at Canada in a few

1384
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,400
months.
It'd be a UAP conference.

1385
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,960
He's speaking about this
project.

1386
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,400
He and I've been working
together.

1387
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,840
I'm I'm more of a force
multiplier when it comes to

1388
01:13:55,160 --> 01:14:00,480
acquisition of various hardware
to do testing, actually loan

1389
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:04,080
stuff.
I find unique stuff and I I make

1390
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,440
sure he's got what he needs to
do the work.

1391
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,280
Very cool and I don't.
Charge or it's just purely I

1392
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,920
hope I hope we can redo.
It's a it's an experiment that

1393
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,160
Pod Lekov did.
If you look that guy up, he was.

1394
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:19,560
Who?
Bob Who?

1395
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:25,720
Pod Pi think it's POD pod Lekov.
Just look up Gravity, our pulse

1396
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,120
gravity experiment with the pod
Lekov.

1397
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,440
OK, I'll take a look into that.
Yeah, give me a lot of rabbit

1398
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:34,440
holes.
Wired article written by a guy

1399
01:14:34,440 --> 01:14:39,000
named Platt who writes who wrote
for Wired and others.

1400
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,280
He wrote about it.
He went and visited the guy.

1401
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:46,320
The problem is Glenn has figured
out some things that weren't

1402
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,560
probably shared properly.
And he is very smart.

1403
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,840
He'd make superconductor magnets
at home, very large ones.

1404
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,800
And he's very, he knows what
he's doing and he's got several

1405
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:01,400
patents, but he is so committed
to, to exploring these lanes.

1406
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:06,240
We're talking, you know, pulse
power, the ability to, you know,

1407
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:10,080
to to to create a little gravity
wave and and, you know, maybe

1408
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,640
dent something or do something
unique.

1409
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:16,600
So, so we'll see you know, but
when you're working on that

1410
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,440
would be that.
Could be used as an as a weapon

1411
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,680
I don't be using.
You know, somebody could

1412
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:25,280
probably use that as a weapon,
you know, but that's not his

1413
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,120
interest.
He's he's interested in

1414
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,640
propulsion to get kind of get
off the planet and do some

1415
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:35,000
really make some breakthroughs.
The problem here is these are

1416
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:39,360
all so closely tied together.
Weapon pulse, pulse, something

1417
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,680
one way, something moves the
opposite direction.

1418
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:46,280
It's all depend on how you use
it, what's what, what's

1419
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:49,160
stationary, and what's moving.
And.

1420
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,400
It's getting in the wrong lanes
and this is the problem.

1421
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,320
You know, you're, you're smart
guys like that.

1422
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,560
People can nowadays do some
amazing stuff with what they can

1423
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:04,960
find on eBay and networking and
they're doing some crazy physics

1424
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,760
at their homes, man.
And I think in the government,

1425
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,720
they know that these folks are
are probably skating around some

1426
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,520
interesting stuff and they're
keeping an eye on it, I'm sure.

1427
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,680
Because.
You know, if you go after a

1428
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,280
patent, as you know, you know,
you do medical devices and

1429
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:22,840
things.
If you get in the wrong lane,

1430
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,400
you know, they won't give you a
patent on some stuff that's

1431
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,440
pretty too close to.
Yeah, that's the law, man.

1432
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:30,720
They're not going to, they're
not going to let you get in

1433
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,480
those lanes.
And I think, plus, I think

1434
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:36,160
they're crazy people who think
you're hiding something.

1435
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,640
And they're out there, too.
You know, some of the people

1436
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,800
that have killed famous people,
they weren't, they were willing

1437
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,720
to be famous to take it out.
Someone who looked like they

1438
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,840
were doing something amazing.
There's just always reasons,

1439
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,040
people, you know?
Bigelow has seen all flavors of

1440
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,120
those people.
Hey, can you can you tell me who

1441
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,440
Robert Bigelow is?
Was a guy when he was a kid,

1442
01:16:59,480 --> 01:17:02,840
when he was a kid, his parents
both had experience with a UFO

1443
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:07,360
in the desert and it was very
close and, and they talked about

1444
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,200
it.
And Bob I think later saw

1445
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,000
something too.
And he said, someday I'm going

1446
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,320
to be rich enough to go out to
the stars and I'm going to

1447
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:18,760
figure out how to do it.
And he couldn't make his money.

1448
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,440
He had to get in the business of
budget suites, a hotel, to make

1449
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:25,680
enough money to do space.
So he became a billionaire.

1450
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:30,000
And and I met Bob at some
conferences, space conferences.

1451
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,240
What was he like?
Bob Bigelow is.

1452
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,840
Like he's.
Still, he's an impatient man.

1453
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:40,440
He wants, if you watch him, if
you, if you listen to why he got

1454
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:44,120
out of the sold skinwalker, if
you ever watch that, good,

1455
01:17:44,440 --> 01:17:47,520
because he'd say we had, you
know, the best equipment,

1456
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,680
observing phenomena.
And we we, it just kept

1457
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:53,480
changing.
He says, you know, I'm not a

1458
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:56,400
patient man.
He said nothing made sense.

1459
01:17:56,480 --> 01:17:58,160
He said, you know, we tried
this.

1460
01:17:58,160 --> 01:17:59,960
We try to reproduce the same
experiment.

1461
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:03,040
By the way, I don't buy these,
but a patient man, he spent his

1462
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,760
entire life with one goal, one
singular goal.

1463
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,320
Yeah, but he really believed we
wrap enough science equipment

1464
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,960
and the right team around it.
You're going to get to the

1465
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:14,400
bottom of it and you're going to
see how you can exploit this for

1466
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:16,480
your own use.
Maybe there's something here.

1467
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:18,960
That's what you do.
You look for outliers and

1468
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,800
physics and say I'm going to go
study that because it doesn't

1469
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:23,920
add up.
I don't know the answer, but

1470
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,720
we're going to do much testing,
try to reproduce it like like a

1471
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:30,200
lightning bolts with rocks
moving and all that stuff where

1472
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:32,080
they prove some of that stuff.
Why?

1473
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,720
Why that happens.
But these are the outliers where

1474
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,800
Bob wanted to know and right now
what's Skinwalker?

1475
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,280
They're out there poking the
bear.

1476
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,520
They don't really know what the
poking they're they're getting

1477
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,320
results.
They're getting stuff from the

1478
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,000
battle.
Got cattle at wrestling.

1479
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,800
You got to, they're cut up with
a laser and they're, you know,

1480
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,040
it's just bananas, man.
And they're calling themselves

1481
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,320
scientists.
I know Travis Taylor, he is a

1482
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,760
scientist.
I was on the Rocket Sea Redneck

1483
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:01,360
TV show with him by the way, for
the.

1484
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:03,360
Is he the gentleman that bought
that bought the?

1485
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:07,000
No, that's Brandon Frugal.
Oh yes, I just heard him on

1486
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:08,360
Real.
Estate.

1487
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:10,560
Real estate guy.
I just heard four hours.

1488
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,360
AGO Travis Travis Taylor has
three PhDs.

1489
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,280
He's from Huntsville.
He worked for the Army, some DC

1490
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,760
held a lot of clearances.
He's a bright man, but I'm

1491
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,760
telling you, they they are
getting their minds blown out

1492
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,000
there.
The other day Travis said, I

1493
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:30,080
think I know why we're all
having horrible nightmares since

1494
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,280
we started doing the ranch.
He's I used to never have

1495
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,120
dreams.
He said they're the worst

1496
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,080
nightmares.
We always have them at the

1497
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,160
ranch.
He's saying this on on on

1498
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:41,360
podcast or something.
He said, well, there's a lot of

1499
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:42,800
X-ray.
I'm not X-ray.

1500
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,960
There's a lot of microwave,
high, high-powered microwave

1501
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,120
energy in that, in that down in
that area, for whatever reason,

1502
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:50,880
we don't know where it's coming
from, he said.

1503
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,920
But it messes with you.
So they're in a soup of a lot of

1504
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,520
broad spectrum radiation and
it's, it's bananas.

1505
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:01,160
You know, he got hit with gamma
ray while he was down there,

1506
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:05,240
came out of a well with his leg,
with his hand, his head.

1507
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,840
He had he got cancer.
He showed me the UA Peacock and

1508
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:11,800
he said that I had to get this
cut off.

1509
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:13,880
And I said what do you think's
going on?

1510
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,360
And he said he said I don't
know, but my dosometer went off.

1511
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:20,960
I was wearing and it showed
gamma and he said I started

1512
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,440
slamming beers to get get my
system flushed.

1513
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,680
He said he was peeing, peeing
black the next day at the

1514
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:31,520
hospital and it was real.
You know, people think all this

1515
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:35,040
stuff is purely staged.
It's it is scripted TV to a

1516
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,720
degree.
There is a a flow that

1517
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:40,320
somebody's managing and they're
stitching it together.

1518
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:44,320
But I'm not saying it's lies.
It's let's launch a rocket and

1519
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:45,480
see what happens.
OK.

1520
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,880
You're watching it bounce off
something.

1521
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,920
Yeah, that stuff.
So, so Bob, Bob eventually, and

1522
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,320
by the way, I spoke to, I'm not
going to call his name, but a

1523
01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:00,080
guy who did IT with Bob for many
years at home and elsewhere,

1524
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,600
probably too much, but he was a
good guy.

1525
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,440
We talked and it's I say he
said, I said, wait, what can you

1526
01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:08,760
tell me about the ranch man?
You remember I'm a contractor

1527
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,120
building rocket motors for
Bigelow for his space station

1528
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,120
Orion.
And I'm the I'm the chief

1529
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:16,840
engineer.
He said, you step down as

1530
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,680
president, you're going to do
this or I'm not giving you the

1531
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,040
$4.8 million contract.
I said absolutely going to do

1532
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:26,000
it.
So I got to talk to his guards.

1533
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,600
A lot of them were special
forces out of the military.

1534
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,600
I mean, there's guards
everywhere out there, by the

1535
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:31,960
way, right?
Barbed wire fields.

1536
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:34,760
And they would tell me, I said,
you've been out of the ranch.

1537
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:36,720
They said, yeah, I spent two
months.

1538
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:38,120
I hate it out there.
Well, what?

1539
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,040
Well, it's a lot of boring, but
a lot of crazy.

1540
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:40,960
What?
It's crazy.

1541
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,040
He said, well, we might go to
the grocery store.

1542
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,000
We got groceries everywhere.
And we come in, we set them down

1543
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,840
walking next room, they're all
over the floor, cabinets are

1544
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:50,760
open, just stuff, stuff like
that.

1545
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,960
So Bob says Poulter got stuff.
You remember him talking about

1546
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:54,880
that?
He said.

1547
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,920
I heard him follow my.
Wife home followed me home and,

1548
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:00,960
and, and by the way, there was a
guy, there was a guy Amy brought

1549
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,440
to me to Huntsville I met.
Well, he was APK.

1550
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:07,400
He's a psychokinesis guy and he
trained.

1551
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,080
He spent time up at the Monroe
Institute.

1552
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:12,880
Yes.
Sir, he sure did.

1553
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:17,320
And he and he had skills and and
I'm like, OK, well, she was the

1554
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,720
other she was she was with
another couple of people that I

1555
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,000
won't mention the name because
in her text she told me one of

1556
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:28,440
them was compromised by she was
told that by someone, someone in

1557
01:22:28,440 --> 01:22:29,720
the military she was working
with.

1558
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,360
But the but the point is he had
pictures that had video on his

1559
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:38,280
camera looking at a screen like
you are screen and it was a UFO

1560
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:40,520
going over some trees.
There was a door looked like,

1561
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,240
like a freaking this flying over
and over.

1562
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,400
I said what is this?
He said.

1563
01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:48,320
He said this is phenomenal.
I said where is this?

1564
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:52,960
He said this was from the camera
of some of the video cameras at

1565
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:54,320
Skinwalker.
Yeah.

1566
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,040
What do you where did you get
these?

1567
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,280
He said.
They paid me to come out and use

1568
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,720
my skills.
This is when Bob owned it.

1569
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:06,280
Yeah, use my skills for a
couple, three weeks to see what

1570
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,400
he could discern from this
chaos.

1571
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,000
So now we're in a now we're in
poltergeist world, OK.

1572
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:15,200
I'm trying to be with you.
I'm saying we're, we're throwing

1573
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,200
all the everything at it.
What?

1574
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,080
Could it be it doesn't make any
sense?

1575
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,680
It doesn't make any sense
because again, you're talking

1576
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,160
about sober minded people.
You're talking about people.

1577
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:26,440
And I mean, you hear the guy,
especially the gentleman that

1578
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:28,200
that that since bought it from
Bigelow.

1579
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,400
That guy seems to be an
extremely sober minded guy.

1580
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,600
Definitely.
No, I mean, and and he's like,

1581
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,920
there are things that are going
on that I just don't know.

1582
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,360
And like, and that is someone
that I believe way more than

1583
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:43,760
someone that is definitively yes
or no.

1584
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,880
Like I'll tell you what this is
or I'll tell you that doesn't

1585
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:47,280
exist because you can't explain
it.

1586
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:50,240
Like he's like, I don't know,
it's freaking me out.

1587
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,400
We're trying to figure it out.
We've devoted millions of

1588
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:55,520
dollars to figure it out and it
just we, we can't, we have no

1589
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,680
idea exactly.
So so I, you know, we're a

1590
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:58,840
poacher.
We're a poacher guy.

1591
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:00,560
Poltergeist over here, right?
I.

1592
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,640
Was big along thought that's his
language not mine right.

1593
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:07,160
You know he said that now coming
from him that's incredibly

1594
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,160
unusual because he's all about
the science right.

1595
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:15,080
Yeah, he owned it before Brandon
and he it is and he so and he

1596
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:16,960
said it really affected his
wife.

1597
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:19,960
You remember he said that it the
way it would interact with her.

1598
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:23,520
So it really did sound like the
movie like a poltergeist still

1599
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,600
you know it's just so him there
was the hitchhiker effect and

1600
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,200
now you're thinking what is that
follows you home.

1601
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,520
Travis Taylor told me that a
couple years ago at a conference

1602
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,280
he said if you're you know this
stuff will go home with you and

1603
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,760
I said what are you talking
about this phenomena.

1604
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,200
I said what?
And I'm thinking you are three

1605
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,640
pH DS and we're talking about a
phenomena that's going up with

1606
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:46,440
you and it's going to mess with
you.

1607
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:51,000
It's cut his car off out there,
brand new car when he was out

1608
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,920
there getting his mouth way out.
That's what he told me and it

1609
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,240
cranked back up and it happened
a couple times.

1610
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:58,360
And he said that's the kind of
stuff that happens.

1611
01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:00,000
He said it, we all have it
happened.

1612
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,840
He said anyone who goes out
there, these these these things

1613
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,200
affect you when you leave, he
said.

1614
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:08,360
I want to ask.
I've been I've been wanting to

1615
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,720
ask this for a while because it
keeps on coming up.

1616
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:17,040
This phenomenon generally seem
to happen around military bases

1617
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:22,200
or large experimental bases in
general, right?

1618
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:23,920
Like you want to go to UFO you
want.

1619
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,920
If anyone, if anyone wants to
see a UFO really badly, they

1620
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,400
know where to go.
You go to Nevada, you go to

1621
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,240
Huntsville, you go to you go to
certain parts of Florida.

1622
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,320
There are parts in the country
that people today that you can

1623
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:39,200
reliably go on a on a I'm sure a
fairly regular basis and come

1624
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:43,760
across something that probably
at this point is probably man

1625
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:45,400
made, right?
I imagine.

1626
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:49,760
I think all of it, yeah.
And so, so, So what do you think

1627
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:51,680
the story is?
Do you think this is all

1628
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:52,760
weapons?
Do you think there was

1629
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,520
inspiration for weapons?
And we've been replicating it.

1630
01:25:56,520 --> 01:26:00,720
That's why, like I had to do the
base come because of the stuff

1631
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:04,280
that's there to begin with, or
do the things visit the bases

1632
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,480
because it shows a spike of
consciousness and intelligence

1633
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:11,400
and humanity that is just
unprecedented.

1634
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,240
What what do you think is going
on over there?

1635
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,000
Well, if you and I, you know,
let's just say you and I are

1636
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:20,640
pure scientists and we're, we're
down, we're down in the rabbit

1637
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,640
holes.
By the way, we're not religious

1638
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:24,400
people.
We're, we're like the facts.

1639
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:26,760
We don't want any, anything but
science.

1640
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:29,480
We want something to be
explained to us as science,

1641
01:26:29,480 --> 01:26:33,880
period.
And and and and and so we're

1642
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:38,080
open to anything to keep our
country at the forefront.

1643
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:42,000
We're open to anything, any
phenomena that looks wild and

1644
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,480
crazy, you know, or what are
they?

1645
01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:46,920
Are they man made?
Are they coming from a lightning

1646
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:49,320
storm?
How do they sustain themselves?

1647
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:53,440
How do they, you know, right
now, if you said go in a lab and

1648
01:26:53,440 --> 01:26:56,720
make me an orb and send it out
front door, I don't think

1649
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:00,040
anybody could do it, by the way,
that that we know of now.

1650
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,520
I'm saying we, we, we, I'm
saying it's not something that

1651
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:05,000
hustle of people and all of them
there.

1652
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,040
No, nobody's doing that at home.
They can make little orbs set in

1653
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:12,160
a magnetic field, spin around
and all that, but to have them

1654
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:16,120
go across the field and kind of
keep themselves lit off and go

1655
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,840
through a wall.
And you know, even Brian Benny,

1656
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:22,960
the pilot of spaceship one in
one of our flights to Seattle,

1657
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:26,280
not Seattle.
It was down to to S Nevada.

1658
01:27:26,480 --> 01:27:30,880
He said he flew X fifteens man.
This guy was on carrier landing

1659
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:32,520
guy.
He's one of the pilots.

1660
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,600
He said he had an orb come
through the cockpit, come in one

1661
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:38,600
side, out the other.
Didn't seem to affect anything.

1662
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:40,360
But nobody's going to talk about
it.

1663
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:42,320
You'd be grounded, you'd be
grounded.

1664
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,880
You wouldn't be flying that
machine if you're going to be

1665
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:47,040
psychologically evaluated.
Everybody knew.

1666
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,720
It in in the cockpit.
Through the cockpit, he said.

1667
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:51,840
Didn't like burning?
Was it a physical?

1668
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:55,400
Was it a?
Physical ball of light, he said.

1669
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:56,800
Little ball of light came
through.

1670
01:27:56,880 --> 01:28:00,200
OK, so we started talking about
this before Ball of Light.

1671
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,480
It could be is is magnetic.
Yeah, that's right.

1672
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,320
And it doesn't have to.
A bottle of light doesn't have

1673
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:09,280
to be physical like mass.
It doesn't.

1674
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:13,280
Well, it doesn't do something.
It's, you know, as you know, not

1675
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:15,520
all plasma.
You can, you've held your hand a

1676
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,680
little plasma ball at a store
and it you know, you're not, you

1677
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,040
don't feel any heat from that.
I mean, there are there are, you

1678
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,400
know, so I'm not saying it had
tons of energy associated with

1679
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,680
it, like it's, you know, putting
UV light and burning his face,

1680
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:30,960
but he said it didn't seem to
affect anything.

1681
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:35,000
So I can't tell you how, what
frequency or how much power

1682
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,560
there was, but he didn't he
didn't see any damage caused by

1683
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,840
it.
But he told me and Rutan that

1684
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:42,680
story.
And you know, this is a guy that

1685
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:44,720
was going to be flying our
spaceship, but he wouldn't be

1686
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,560
telling us stuff that would
probably ground him with us.

1687
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:50,040
We in other words, if we thought
he was crazy, we wouldn't have

1688
01:28:50,440 --> 01:28:52,160
he wouldn't.
In other words, he was, I think

1689
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,400
he was telling the truth.
Right, meaning he'd have

1690
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:55,600
anything to gain from telling a
team.

1691
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,360
No, no, it's really should not
told us anything because you'd

1692
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:01,680
only been working for Burt for
probably about a year and a half

1693
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,080
then.
But what I'm getting at is I

1694
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:10,560
think, I think we, I think for a
long time, I personally think

1695
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:16,200
that we've dabbled in a lot of
stuff in order to try to

1696
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:19,720
understand it.
And I believe we've had our look

1697
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,920
at what happened when, when the
Russians during the Cold War,

1698
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,000
they had a remote viewing
program.

1699
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:29,240
So all of a sudden America had
one quietly had a remote viewing

1700
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:30,840
program.
Tied in with the Church of

1701
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:32,600
Scientology.
Even better.

1702
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,920
Well, and of course, well, that
that's a good one.

1703
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,600
That's a good one because it's
the, you know, it was the

1704
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:42,600
traditional churches that
weren't fond of you doing these,

1705
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:46,600
these remote viewing psychic
stuff in the name of any, for

1706
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:48,800
any reason.
Why are we paying for that?

1707
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:51,720
So then it kind of went quiet
and it became the Monroe

1708
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,120
institution.
That's where Hal Puthoff spent

1709
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:58,160
some time, could be his time.
And and now it's there was other

1710
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:01,240
great spoon benders and all sort
of people.

1711
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:02,800
I knew a guy who went through
that.

1712
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,960
His grandmother died.
He's having dreams and he got

1713
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:08,840
tested and they went up there
for two or three weeks.

1714
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:12,440
He was a massage therapist.
He worked on me sometime, but he

1715
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:15,160
was telling me you work for
Bigelow and then he start

1716
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:19,640
sharing his up at the Monroe
Institute who he trained under.

1717
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,440
And he said, I said, why would
you be up there?

1718
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,280
This guy called himself a
Christian healer.

1719
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,880
And I said, OK, tell me about
this.

1720
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:29,440
I'm on the table getting
massage.

1721
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:33,080
He's good at deep tissue, hip,
hip stuff, sciatica in

1722
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,040
particular.
But I'll tell you what, I looked

1723
01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:37,320
him up the other day.
I'm not going to say his name,

1724
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,720
but he was working on me pre
COVID or during COVID, probably

1725
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,080
a little bit.
He looked him up in the paper

1726
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:47,400
and he was, he was, he got went
to jail for crack and stuff.

1727
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:48,800
They look awful.
Shit.

1728
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,880
Yeah.
So he, you know, in order to, he

1729
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,000
was showing me a little skill he
thought he had or something.

1730
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,600
And I'm like, OK, what I do with
that they had to do with the

1731
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,720
necklace and spinning it one way
or the other.

1732
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,520
And, you know, he was just
thought he was, you know, people

1733
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:05,920
tell you stuff if they think
you, if they know you work for

1734
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,320
Bob Bigelow and you're in
advance propulsion or whatever,

1735
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:11,160
people just start sharing stuff
with you.

1736
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:13,120
Yeah.
Believe me, I bet.

1737
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:15,320
I bet.
They think, you know, they think

1738
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:19,360
you're one of them.
I'm one of them is sometime it's

1739
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:21,840
it's satanic people that they're
all in.

1740
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,240
They've got garb in there and
they thinking, oh, I'm at the

1741
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,440
right table.
I mean, I have two of them tell

1742
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:29,840
me that this is going to be fun
because they think, you know,

1743
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:31,480
I've got some great stories I'm
going to tell.

1744
01:31:31,480 --> 01:31:33,640
I've seen I've seen different
sides of this man.

1745
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,360
And it's like, I personally
believe in the name of national

1746
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:41,480
security and keeping us number
one, I think we've explored

1747
01:31:41,480 --> 01:31:43,760
things.
We probably don't know what

1748
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,600
we're doing in many cases.
That's like the consequential

1749
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:48,600
that we talked about earlier.
That's right.

1750
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:51,440
If we don't do it, someone else
will.

1751
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:55,600
That's like, yeah, that's like
the AI, that's like the the

1752
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:59,000
CRISPR technology.
If we don't, they're going to

1753
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:01,520
run around us.
So consequently, we we got to

1754
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,320
get in the front of it.
It's it's kind of.

1755
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:05,400
And it's, you know, crazy.
I don't even know if that line

1756
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:09,200
of thinking is even necessarily
is even necessarily true or

1757
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:14,480
rational.
I think that we have our

1758
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:17,960
perception of reality and
especially of other humans and

1759
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:24,280
other in other countries in
general is so much of it is so

1760
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:29,240
manufactured and so much of it
is so much of our perception.

1761
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:35,000
I I think is so 1 sided and so
intentionally blind and not from

1762
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:37,560
the people that are seeing it,
but the way that it's being

1763
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,640
taught and the way that our
perceptions are forged and

1764
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:42,800
shaped.
I think that I think that people

1765
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:46,280
do like if the, I think that
there could be, I, I, I don't

1766
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:49,160
know how it would even happen,
but because I think the people

1767
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:50,720
running the show aren't those
type of people.

1768
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,400
But I think I, there could be a
world without nuclear weapons,

1769
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:56,760
but using nuclear power.
There could be a world in using

1770
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:58,920
science.
Again, like you said earlier,

1771
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:01,520
science is a tool the same way
amoral.

1772
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,120
There's no good or bad.
It's, it's just a way that we

1773
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:08,960
choose to implement it or not.
And we are at everyone's throat

1774
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:11,400
all the time.
We're so tribal.

1775
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:13,880
And I think one of the big
threats of space, one of the big

1776
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,600
threats of space travel, is that
we ultimately begin to start

1777
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:21,240
looking at one another as one
tribe instead of looking at the

1778
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:23,320
American tribe and the Russian
tribe and the American tribe and

1779
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:26,320
the Chinese tribe and the planet
Earth is a tribe.

1780
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:30,280
And that that would be
catastrophic to the general

1781
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:32,560
order of the way that the world
is running right now.

1782
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,160
But you know what?
Since the beginning of time

1783
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:40,240
there, people can't seem to be
content with being on this

1784
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:42,480
level.
Somebody's got to be the the

1785
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:45,440
dog, the top dog always, and we
can't.

1786
01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:48,840
You don't trust people.
And I mean, it's as old as time,

1787
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:50,040
man, I.
Mean that's why we need

1788
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,480
religion.
I but I personally believe that

1789
01:33:52,480 --> 01:33:54,960
that's why we have religion in
general.

1790
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,960
I think religion for for for
humanity is an evolution of

1791
01:33:57,960 --> 01:33:59,960
consciousness.
Hey, who would have ever thought

1792
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,600
that man would be a monogamist?
I mean, like look at look at, I

1793
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:05,800
mean think about how old how old
we are and how old our species

1794
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:07,280
is.
And for a guy to say, I'm going

1795
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:09,920
to put on a ring and then, you
know, never touch another woman

1796
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:14,920
for 60 years, which goes against
who knows how many primal or

1797
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:17,520
evolutionary instincts that that
that guy might have.

1798
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:21,520
You know, I mean, we, we, we've,
we, we or the fact that we have

1799
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:24,200
manners.
I mean, like all this stuff is

1800
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,480
we, these are evolutions of
consciousness that make us

1801
01:34:27,480 --> 01:34:30,640
something different.
And so that's just another step

1802
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:32,080
on the ladder that we got to get
to.

1803
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:35,080
But I don't know if it's, I
don't know if it's that far off.

1804
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:39,160
Well, I think it seems to be,
you know, it's not a bad

1805
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:42,880
guideline for living.
A lot of what we, you know, we

1806
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:46,840
learn in our various scriptures.
And it's practically when you

1807
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,520
get old, you look back and say,
you know, more power and more

1808
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:54,040
latitude and more freedom is not
necessarily going to be a good

1809
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:58,280
thing for the kids in the
structure of good enough as and

1810
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:01,280
finding that happy medium and
balance in your life.

1811
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,040
All those things are, I mean,
there's not too many good

1812
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:08,200
stories where people conquer
everything and they're #1 and

1813
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,720
they get to stay there.
It doesn't happen, you know.

1814
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:14,720
And then of course, they've
tried them, you know, the, the

1815
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:17,760
United Nation thing.
And then, but the problem is

1816
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,480
inevitably there's people,
there's thinking there's too

1817
01:35:20,480 --> 01:35:24,000
many of us and they're going to
figure out if this out and that,

1818
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,280
you know, and everybody who
makes money seems to be fine

1819
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:30,520
with using various whether it's
through health, what we eat,

1820
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,400
what we do well, how we live,
it's OK fetus crap.

1821
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,600
And there'll be a lot of people
that can't, that don't have

1822
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:41,240
money, that will be happy to buy
the crap and they'll die

1823
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:43,080
earlier.
And I'm telling you, it's

1824
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:47,600
there's people that really do
look at us as that we're not

1825
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:49,560
that important.
There may be animals.

1826
01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:52,680
Animals are more important or
more intelligent because they're

1827
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,760
not doing as much destruction as
us.

1828
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:58,440
So inevitably the problem with
the nuclear weapons is, you

1829
01:35:58,440 --> 01:36:01,160
know, yeah, you need a world
police kinda.

1830
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:04,520
Because we really are to that
tipping point, by the way, we

1831
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:08,280
are at the tipping point where
everyone says, well, they only

1832
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:15,040
have 60% concentrated, you know,
material to make bombs with.

1833
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,960
The thing is that people don't
understand is it takes a long

1834
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,600
time to get to 50% with the
process.

1835
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,480
But you can get a bomb in a
matter of weeks with that

1836
01:36:24,480 --> 01:36:26,320
percent and get it to where it
needs to be.

1837
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:30,240
It's not, it's not linear.
It takes a long time to get to

1838
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:34,280
that that that amount of purity,
by the way.

1839
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:36,960
Then it's easy.
It's very easy to get the rest

1840
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:38,800
of the way.
And that's a problem.

1841
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:41,960
It wouldn't be a problem if you
if you, if you didn't get

1842
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:45,880
rewarded so well if you blow
some people up because the the

1843
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:51,400
program is, is, is if you're a
male for some people, they, they

1844
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:54,320
get some pretty good hook up
for, for doing bad things to

1845
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:57,120
other people.
So I don't know the answer, but

1846
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:01,080
I'll tell you one thing.
Without trust and verification

1847
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:03,120
methods, we're not we're in a
pickle.

1848
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,680
And this goes back to what
Wernher von Braun was talking

1849
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:11,000
about this moment in time where
we're going to have to deal with

1850
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,800
the alien threat.
And he says, but it's not going

1851
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:15,160
to be aliens.
It's going to be the

1852
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:20,080
government's trying to get
manage this big caught this big

1853
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:23,320
thing called Earth and the
nuclear weapons here and there.

1854
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:26,640
And now they need a common we
need a common belief system.

1855
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:29,680
I'm an enemy.
We need to get rid of these

1856
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:32,520
weapons or throw them at the the
aliens.

1857
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:35,840
But he said it's going to be us.
It's a way they're going to try

1858
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:40,880
to manage the the acceleration
of knowledge technology and they

1859
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:44,120
need a way to grab a hold of the
whole planet.

1860
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:46,040
And I think Steven.
Greer was saying that the other

1861
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:47,160
day, wasn't he?
Did he hear?

1862
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:48,600
Did he?
Do you see that, Steve?

1863
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:49,920
Was it Steve?
Steven Greer?

1864
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:51,960
I don't know that.
I heard him the other day saying

1865
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:54,120
I I know that.
You said the other day.

1866
01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:57,080
Ron Brown before in the this
scenario.

1867
01:37:57,440 --> 01:38:00,720
He mentioned that, he mentioned
that there was supposed to be,

1868
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:04,840
there was 2 attempts for there's
two different attempts for

1869
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:10,800
projects and for mass, I guess
controller, you know, like a

1870
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:14,960
COVID type event, right?
And that, that, that a faked

1871
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:18,320
alien invasion is being planned
for 2028 or something like that,

1872
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:22,240
Which is why, which is why we're
starting to head down this path

1873
01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:23,880
now.
But again, what, what, what

1874
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:27,400
makes this so frustrating is
that like every good conspiracy

1875
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:29,880
theory and like every good
government event and like every

1876
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:32,400
good issue that ever happened,
there's always a little bit of

1877
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:35,560
truth probably laced into that.
And so if we were to say that,

1878
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,680
you know, what the universe is
proud is almost certainly

1879
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:40,480
teeming with life.
I, I believe it.

1880
01:38:40,480 --> 01:38:43,680
And the universe is so.
And I don't know whether people

1881
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:45,360
have whether life has visited
Earth.

1882
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:48,480
I'm inclined to say yes
personally, but that's just

1883
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:50,520
because I want to, I think more
than anything.

1884
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,720
But sure that so, so I'm sure
that there's grains of truth

1885
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,000
too.
If if there is a planned alien

1886
01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:58,800
invasion, there have to be
grains of truth within that that

1887
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:01,520
there that, you know, not going
to whip this out of nowhere.

1888
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:04,920
And there has to be some kind of
hard signs that you can point

1889
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:06,720
to.
Listen, people did die of COVID.

1890
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:10,040
Like that wasn't a question.
COVID was a tragedy for an

1891
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:12,720
enormous amount of people.
There was no question that the

1892
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,120
question isn't treasured or not.
The question is manufactured or

1893
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:18,520
not, with what intent, to what
extent and and and so on.

1894
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:21,200
But and, and by the way, the
answer could be whatever.

1895
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:23,800
And you know that I don't even
care to get into that, but.

1896
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:26,360
I think it's all the above,
right?

1897
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:29,560
A little bit of all.
And so that I think that this is

1898
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,920
too, I think that this is what
it's going to be too.

1899
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:34,840
And I've also heard that
disclosure could be just a slow,

1900
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:38,640
a slow Rd. process, that it's
not one bombshell, but it's a

1901
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,800
series of conversations that
become normalized over time and

1902
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:45,720
movies in Hollywood that start
to get endorsed by the public.

1903
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,920
And then all of a sudden Obama
saying something and Trump

1904
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:49,600
saying something.
And, and all of a sudden you

1905
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,040
have people on both sides of the
aisle in the age of disclosure

1906
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:54,720
and this missing scientists.
And then and then and now

1907
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,000
everyone's kind of ready there,
there, everyone's already there

1908
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:58,680
without anyone having to come
out and say anything.

1909
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,920
Yeah, we're getting warmed up
for sure.

1910
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:05,920
You know, I count it listening
to to Tim Burchett and listening

1911
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:09,360
to Luna and you know, and
they're pretty, they're pretty

1912
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:13,880
junior to have this project that
they have in their court to be

1913
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:18,320
to be chasing the the old
school, the old guard.

1914
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:19,920
Do you agree?
They're young.

1915
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:23,200
That means they could be pretty
gullible about.

1916
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:27,320
Luna in particular I thought was
was strange how how how involved

1917
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:29,600
she is.
Like it's cool, but I I'm

1918
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:30,680
surprised.
Yeah.

1919
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:33,560
So, you know, when they said
today, I think I heard Tim Birch

1920
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:36,400
say today, he said, well, they
said, do you really believe in

1921
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,920
aliens?
And he said, he said, I believe

1922
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:42,720
there are, there is evil.
And he said, you know what I'm

1923
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:46,440
deducing from this?
I am thinking that there are

1924
01:40:46,440 --> 01:40:51,160
people and forces in play where
they're seeking knowledge for

1925
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:55,000
great technology and they're
doing unconventional things.

1926
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,280
I think is 1.
Of those guys too, by the way.

1927
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:00,680
OK.
I think they're literally they

1928
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:04,480
want the they want the toys and
they don't want to have to work

1929
01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:07,480
as hard.
So they are praying for

1930
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:11,560
knowledge from whatever's out
there that will give them some

1931
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:14,000
feedback.
And I don't think the what's out

1932
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:17,000
there, the details of that, the
public is ready to hear that

1933
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:18,720
story.
That's what I think.

1934
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:21,600
I think they have figured out
how to communicate with whatever

1935
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:25,680
is out there talking.
Yeah, I'm talking conscious.

1936
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,320
I'm talking that they they're
getting it and they call it an

1937
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:30,680
ether, They're calling it
quantum.

1938
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:33,320
We may be getting a message from
across the universe.

1939
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:37,360
It could be instantaneous
coupling and you know what I'm

1940
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,520
saying?
It could be duality.

1941
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,280
And we just tuned into the right
frequency.

1942
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:47,280
It takes people to do this, and
I think that's the controversial

1943
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:48,960
part.
The fact that we'd be paying

1944
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:54,560
anybody to be doing laying in a
bed or in a chamber doing

1945
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:59,520
something we call collective
conscious, seeking some way to

1946
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:03,240
have destructive outcomes with
the toys that we might.

1947
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:07,800
The knowledge we gain, we use
them to for maybe, maybe for.

1948
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:11,800
And let's face it, if it's if
it's if it's free energy of some

1949
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:13,480
sort, I'll call it free over
unity.

1950
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:17,120
That will definitely be squashed
for a lot of reason.

1951
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:22,520
Energy.
Yeah, because energy is is, is

1952
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:27,120
there so much invested in the
way we currently run our whole

1953
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:30,080
system and who benefits?
Absolutely.

1954
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:33,200
I don't see that we're going to
get the hook up on anything.

1955
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:37,400
Another problem is when you have
a really dense way to get a lot

1956
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:40,560
of energy, you have a dense way
to build some awesome weapons,

1957
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:44,120
launch them and if you can pull
it out of ether, you can do it

1958
01:42:44,120 --> 01:42:46,360
from anywhere.
So that's the problem.

1959
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:49,600
They all kind of, it's like I
think Eric would argue too that

1960
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:53,520
they all could be the same coin
that the nuclear peace and the

1961
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,760
energy that the energy, in other
words, the making of energy.

1962
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,360
You remember he talked about the
Bravo, the hydrogen bomb going

1963
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:03,200
off and he was they wouldn't be
talking about the yield that

1964
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:06,040
came out of that far exceeded
what they predicted.

1965
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:09,280
There was something happening
with that bomb and they

1966
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:13,000
scientists looked at the date
and think, holy cow, there's

1967
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:16,920
some other physics going on here
pebbling with this bomb and

1968
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:20,280
giving us more yield than we
ever predicted, he said.

1969
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:23,440
Right then they said let's,
we're going to do a moratorium

1970
01:43:23,440 --> 01:43:27,280
on doing hydrogen bombs and
explosive nuclear weapons.

1971
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:31,400
And, and, and I think based on
what I've read, they were able

1972
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:35,560
to scale down all experiments
because if they, they're a lot

1973
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:38,600
easier to make than they were
the fission.

1974
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:43,200
The fission took a lot of magic
happening exactly the same time

1975
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:45,880
the, the, the, the hydrogen
bombs.

1976
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:49,480
Apparently they're, they're,
they're much easier to, to light

1977
01:43:49,480 --> 01:43:51,720
off.
So that's what I believe.

1978
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:55,800
We're doing stuff at small scale
because we go unnoticed.

1979
01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:59,840
We know with enough of the, the
same material, the same physics,

1980
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,800
we can build a big one.
And I think that's why we don't

1981
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:06,400
hear a lot of people popping off
stuff that gives you seismic

1982
01:44:06,440 --> 01:44:10,040
activity, you know, of nine on
the Richter scale here and

1983
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:11,360
there.
It's rare.

1984
01:44:11,440 --> 01:44:14,960
I wanted to ask you, unless, and
you mentioned this earlier, I

1985
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:17,200
don't know if you want to talk
about it again or not, but a

1986
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:20,240
quick defense of the Amy
Eskridge video that was going

1987
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:23,840
around because I think that I
mean, I would personally like to

1988
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:25,440
give it a fair shot.
It's up to you whether you want

1989
01:44:25,440 --> 01:44:28,000
to elaborate on what I'm talking
about.

1990
01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:30,520
Well, you know.
We can leave the guy's name out

1991
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,640
of it That, that, that, that,
that that published if you want.

1992
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:34,680
But but just just been her
defense.

1993
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,200
Because people I've seen already
a couple of videos online and

1994
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:39,480
different podcasts and
different, you know, X accounts

1995
01:44:39,480 --> 01:44:41,800
and stuff that are basically
really calling her a kook.

1996
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:45,120
And it's saying that, you know,
she's probably brilliant, but

1997
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:46,480
who knows where her mental state
was?

1998
01:44:46,480 --> 01:44:48,400
Who know what her, who knows
what her emotional state was?

1999
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:50,880
You know, we don't know with
someone like that how.

2000
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:54,000
And as someone that knew her and
her dad and his worked with her

2001
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:56,480
and advise her, I just wanted to
get some of your two cents on

2002
01:44:56,480 --> 01:44:58,880
that.
Yeah, who do you think is more

2003
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:01,720
dangerous?
A scientist who's used to

2004
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:06,040
keeping his head down and
working and doing his job and

2005
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:09,320
following protocols and and
respecting the community and the

2006
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:11,640
science.
How do you think the daughter of

2007
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:15,360
a dad who does that, who's good
at spilling the beans and

2008
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:17,800
telling, telling the story and
I'm going to share it with the

2009
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:19,400
world.
Who, which one of those two

2010
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:24,440
people do you think is really
more dangerous selectively?

2011
01:45:24,440 --> 01:45:27,880
There's a lot of danger there,
but it's highly unusual to have

2012
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,880
that combo.
OK, She's not, she wasn't

2013
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:33,960
stupid.
She was, she was definitely a

2014
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,440
threat to some people, no doubt
about that.

2015
01:45:36,600 --> 01:45:40,400
Based on text I have and, and
things that I know and they can

2016
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:43,920
remember a lot, lot of my
interaction with hers in 1819

2017
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:46,000
and then later a little bit with
her dad.

2018
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:49,560
But but you know, she passed
away with 2022, right?

2019
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:52,760
I think it's 2220.
Last time I saw was at the UAP

2020
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,680
conference in Huntsville.
The first one they had her dad

2021
01:45:55,680 --> 01:46:00,240
were there and how put off is a
really the first one they had at

2022
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:04,920
Huntsville and that's where
Alonzo I finally came out and

2023
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,640
came to Huntsville and he's you
know, he's an Intel.

2024
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,280
You know, I'm connected with all
these people on LinkedIn.

2025
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:13,560
Is it a lot of the people that
do this stuff?

2026
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:16,040
They don't have LinkedIn
profiles man they.

2027
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:17,760
I bet not.
I wouldn't.

2028
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:19,800
I wouldn't.
They don't need a job they don't

2029
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:23,920
need they're having fun and I
could promise you they ain't

2030
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:25,840
going to talk about it.
There's no good.

2031
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:30,840
So people that yap all the time,
generally are, are are a lot of

2032
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:34,400
people quote, doing doing
research and yapping about all

2033
01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:36,880
the time.
They're probably not that.

2034
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:40,240
They're just looking for hits
and and and, you know,

2035
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,720
followers.
And that's what I think.

2036
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:46,680
But Amy was different.
She represented some incredible

2037
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:50,360
people, by the way, talented
people that never talk.

2038
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:53,560
In fact, one of the scientists,
I looked that guy up.

2039
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:55,520
I couldn't find nothing on this
guy.

2040
01:46:55,920 --> 01:47:00,080
He was a he was a new guy and
he'd worked apparently.

2041
01:47:00,480 --> 01:47:05,240
So this guy was was working with
a neutron generator that he had

2042
01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:08,080
developed to do science at the
hospitals.

2043
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:12,640
OK, there's certain types of
radiation patients get, they use

2044
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:16,800
radiation to kill cancers.
But the half life of what's out

2045
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:20,280
there, they have to bring in.
It could be a day, it's only

2046
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,120
going to last 24 hours.
And then you got to fly more in.

2047
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:25,600
Have you ever heard of that?
There's certain particles that

2048
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,320
they use.
And he was able to create some

2049
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:32,200
of these with a emitter that he
designed and had glass blower

2050
01:47:32,200 --> 01:47:35,560
made and it was incredible.
And he was pitching this as a

2051
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:39,320
product that he could sell even
though you wouldn't normally get

2052
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:41,280
to offer his.
When are you going to get to

2053
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:45,160
offer a commercial product?
When you're all you ever done is

2054
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:48,200
design and wacky weapons, what
is going to be your commercial

2055
01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:50,760
product?
So he's found a lane to get in,

2056
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:54,160
you know, and which is cool.
I was totally blown away.

2057
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:57,200
I said who who made all that
intricate glass?

2058
01:47:58,160 --> 01:48:01,040
He said, well, the glass, best
glass blowers in the country

2059
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:03,960
makes glass up near Chattanooga,
you know, up that way.

2060
01:48:04,160 --> 01:48:06,760
Yeah, Tennessee.
But this guy was very soft

2061
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,920
spoken and it and I'm just blown
away.

2062
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:12,120
This is over my head, man.
I'm down in his lab and he was

2063
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:15,400
the real deal man.
And that's the kind of people

2064
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:19,160
aiming at on different projects,
she'd find funding so they could

2065
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:23,200
go build a commercial product.
But the potential of those

2066
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:25,840
people is what's scary.
It's not the commercial

2067
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:29,080
products, by the way.
That particular product could

2068
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:32,560
scan the ground and look for
certain munitions and it would

2069
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:37,200
kick off a certain emission.
So he had a sensor that he had

2070
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:41,440
designed that could see things
like explosives and stuff.

2071
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:45,080
So there were other uses to
penetrate the ground and scan

2072
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:49,080
for IDs and all that kind of
stuff, improvised munitions.

2073
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:52,320
So there was a lot of good that
these people can do.

2074
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:55,680
But I'm telling you this is she
was not full of it.

2075
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:58,200
Amy was the real deal.
She was doing.

2076
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:03,680
She was in a job doing keeping,
keeping real opportunity coming

2077
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:07,040
through the door and applying it
and keeping her dad and others

2078
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:09,600
out of a lane.
Maybe that would be get them in

2079
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:10,560
trouble.
OK.

2080
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,240
Yeah, Yeah.
Do you think that?

2081
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:18,120
And I personally, I believe the
potential of these geniuses,

2082
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:20,360
some of them, that's the scary
part.

2083
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:23,240
And there was nobody with a horn
like Amy.

2084
01:49:23,440 --> 01:49:27,200
And she was going to tell the
world that we're working on this

2085
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:29,760
anti gravity now, by the way,
anti gravity.

2086
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:33,080
Yeah, who doesn't want to fly to
to the moon or whatever.

2087
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:36,000
But the point is a lot of these
were real small experiments that

2088
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,200
were demonstrators.
They weren't like they had a

2089
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:40,320
flying saucer in the backyard
that I know of.

2090
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:45,120
But the one is the fundamentals.
The fundamentals and the fact

2091
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:47,560
that she was going to spread all
this to the world.

2092
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:52,120
That's the problem.
Imagine that her working for the

2093
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:56,200
folks out at Los Alamos are down
out there, They're 51 and she's

2094
01:49:56,200 --> 01:50:00,120
out there at the library talking
about the great work and she

2095
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:02,960
brings her father in and there's
taking questions.

2096
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:04,760
And think about that for a
minute.

2097
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:07,600
These guys that have always
worked some spook stuff.

2098
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:10,040
There are some real classified
stuff.

2099
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:15,080
Do you think how many people you
think might want to do her harm?

2100
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:18,040
What if you're in those arenas
and you've been doing the right

2101
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:21,120
thing and.
You think private or public or

2102
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:23,880
both?
No, I think I think retired

2103
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:27,520
people that have a lot of
knowledge and a lot lots of

2104
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:31,000
loose like some of these people
that are disappearing right and

2105
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:34,200
all the connections to JPL.
And it makes me wonder if some

2106
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:37,880
of these people were also
working some of these conscious

2107
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:41,160
angles by the way.
And it all goes back to some of

2108
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,800
that Crowley, because you and.
Consciousness are have been

2109
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:48,800
linked also right, especially
because there's maybe some kind

2110
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:51,880
of speculation and I don't think
that they could even really

2111
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:54,560
speculation anymore.
I did a podcast I was making a

2112
01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:58,560
short with a month ago with the
woman I think I told you this on

2113
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:01,280
the phone the other day named
Doctor Lisa Gable.

2114
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:07,680
But she's man a neurobiologist
and she's working with a with

2115
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:10,840
the with the engineering
professor to use to create like

2116
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:16,160
EEG hat to control and to use
our neurons to control to

2117
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:20,440
control drones using EEG.
And she's doing this since 2010.

2118
01:51:20,440 --> 01:51:22,920
They're driving they're they're
flying drones around the gym

2119
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:24,880
with their minds, with their
brains.

2120
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:29,120
And I'm like, this is 2010 in
Lafayette University that some

2121
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:32,880
you know, and and and she was
wonderful, awesome guest.

2122
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:35,760
I never heard, you know, I never
heard of anything like this.

2123
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:39,160
Before our folks probably been
doing it for for another 10 or

2124
01:51:39,160 --> 01:51:40,480
20 years.
Yeah.

2125
01:51:40,480 --> 01:51:43,000
So, so there's there's
speculation, especially because

2126
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:47,840
the UFOs seem often too small to
be manned really as far from our

2127
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:50,600
understanding and what we could
guess, which is also by the way,

2128
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:53,120
completely preposterous because
like the idea that like there's

2129
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:55,560
such thing as like a little
intelligence, OK.

2130
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,040
I mean like, I don't suppose why
not?

2131
01:52:01,480 --> 01:52:06,400
Now keep in mind if you're Amy's
dad, you know I have not talked

2132
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:10,840
to him about his death of Amy.
That is just not a subject bring

2133
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:13,200
up.
But I didn't know.

2134
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:16,200
She did have a lot of
fibromyalgia stuff.

2135
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:19,440
She saw me one day when I met
her with I had an ice pack in my

2136
01:52:19,440 --> 01:52:21,840
back and I have a lot of
sciatica.

2137
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,720
She says you suffer too.
A lot of I said, yeah, I travel

2138
01:52:25,720 --> 01:52:27,680
with these ice packs everywhere.
It sucks.

2139
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:29,520
She goes well, that's the way it
goes.

2140
01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:32,240
You know, people that are really
doing real stuff kind of make a

2141
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:33,920
difference.
They seem to be plagued with

2142
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:36,840
something.
And then I didn't subscribe to

2143
01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:40,240
that necessarily, but she
certainly thought it was a a

2144
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:43,000
burden for those who were making
a difference.

2145
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:46,320
And I do think that there's a
lot of stress and suffering.

2146
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:49,640
It goes with that with that
journey she was on for sure.

2147
01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:52,240
Sure.
She's truly shaking it up man,

2148
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:57,280
Huntsville, AL man she's what do
you so I personally believe that

2149
01:52:57,400 --> 01:53:01,040
something what happened to her,
especially with her on any

2150
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:05,200
medicine with a drink.
I think they would they would be

2151
01:53:05,320 --> 01:53:10,280
just the perfect storm for for
people that that are made to

2152
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:13,560
kill themselves different ways
and threaten their families,

2153
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:16,480
threaten their they just say,
hey, you know, you're you're

2154
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:19,560
you're done anyways.
You if you want to see your

2155
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:23,080
whatever live this is what's
going to happen because we're

2156
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:26,280
done.
You're done and this is the way

2157
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:28,960
to go down man.
It looks like a suit side and it

2158
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:31,480
is for that.
So I am skeptical.

2159
01:53:31,480 --> 01:53:34,440
I don't believe that nobody
loves their parents and the

2160
01:53:34,440 --> 01:53:37,000
crazy about them would do that
on the family farm.

2161
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:39,960
That's done that is nothing
good.

2162
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:42,480
There's a lot of places you can
go do that, but that wouldn't be

2163
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:45,560
my number one spot.
That's just me and I've I've

2164
01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:49,920
I've seen from my own family,
but and it was just a big mess.

2165
01:53:49,960 --> 01:53:53,280
But but but you know, that was a
unfortunately it was a very

2166
01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:56,680
unfortunate young, young kid,
but in a girl girlfriend deal.

2167
01:53:56,800 --> 01:53:59,800
The point is that he didn't do
that at home either, you know.

2168
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:03,240
Yeah, it went to the cemetery.
It's just that's this is all

2169
01:54:03,240 --> 01:54:05,840
very darn horrible, horrible,
horrible.

2170
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:10,000
Love that kid.
I'm just saying, man, I just

2171
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:14,440
don't buy it for the very reason
of the relationship, how proud

2172
01:54:14,440 --> 01:54:18,840
she was of her dad.
And you don't do that as a party

2173
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:23,000
thing for your dad or your mom.
So they're very soft spoken

2174
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:27,880
people and they're they don't
like trouble and and I think and

2175
01:54:27,880 --> 01:54:31,680
in their minds it probably is.
It could be that, but and it's a

2176
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:35,120
good it's an off ramp because
they they've even said, well,

2177
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:38,360
unfortunately, scientists do die
and suddenly kill themselves.

2178
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:41,240
That's sort of their standard.
That's just what they said

2179
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:42,960
recently.
I think Fox tried to get in

2180
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:46,120
touch with them and they said,
you know, they told, they said

2181
01:54:46,240 --> 01:54:50,280
people scientists died too, you
know, so they don't need any

2182
01:54:50,280 --> 01:54:52,280
trouble.
Do you know, there was a lot of

2183
01:54:52,360 --> 01:54:56,240
financially, it was tough to not
have Amy out there keeping the

2184
01:54:56,400 --> 01:55:00,040
business stuff going and then
meeting milestones and doing the

2185
01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:02,400
paperwork.
It was a lot of lot of lot of

2186
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:05,880
terms when that happened beyond
her being gone.

2187
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:08,400
It's just crazy.
It's a lot more complicated than

2188
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,320
people understand.
And it's, it's the kind of stuff

2189
01:55:11,320 --> 01:55:14,400
that you know, can lead to
bankruptcies and stuff that, you

2190
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:16,720
know, when you're, when you're
in your retirement years, you

2191
01:55:16,720 --> 01:55:18,400
just, you don't want to deal
with all that.

2192
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:21,240
Yeah, especially when all you,
especially when your research is

2193
01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:23,760
what keeps you going.
I mean, that's it.

2194
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:26,720
Retire, Retirement to death
sentence as far as far as

2195
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:30,600
anyone's concerned, you know.
Yeah, but I I've never in

2196
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:34,000
anything, even some of her texts
to me and there's a bunch she

2197
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:36,320
was she she said I am will
never.

2198
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:39,640
That's not I'm I'm not suicide.
She said that too.

2199
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:44,000
If it's true, this Reddick stuff
that came out from Sam Reed, I

2200
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:47,360
think it was that it was just a
couple days ago.

2201
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:50,360
I said those were texts that
were it went on Reddit.

2202
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:52,040
I screenshot them all.
I.

2203
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:54,560
Just.
Disappears, but it's supposed to

2204
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:59,000
be text from Sam now.
I met Sam as one of her Canadian

2205
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:02,760
friends.
So I have asked him.

2206
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:05,480
I sent him a note.
I said, is there, is this real?

2207
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:09,480
I don't think I've heard back,
but that was earlier today.

2208
01:56:09,480 --> 01:56:14,000
I really, if it is, I mean, if
he's sharing that, it's really

2209
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:15,520
interesting.
You'd have to read it.

2210
01:56:15,680 --> 01:56:18,360
And I don't want to.
And I for the, I don't want to,

2211
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:21,440
I don't want any trouble with
Amy's, you know, I don't want to

2212
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:25,120
create problems for them.
But I will tell you this, you

2213
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:28,640
just stitch it together.
How many people get to go out?

2214
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:32,720
When people are retired who done
some really crazy stuff and have

2215
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:35,040
talent, you're trying to
commercialize them.

2216
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:38,800
At the same time you're telling
people we're going to do some

2217
01:56:38,800 --> 01:56:42,360
gravity energy stuff.
And then it's like those people

2218
01:56:42,360 --> 01:56:45,040
are like, holy crap, I don't
want you talking about that

2219
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:48,480
because that's going to get me.
Somebody's going to come visit

2220
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:49,520
us.
Are you with me?

2221
01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:52,120
Somebody in the in the, in the
government?

2222
01:56:52,120 --> 01:56:55,000
Because that's not what you do
when you retire working

2223
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:56,280
programs.
That's right.

2224
01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:00,240
I mean, if you were, if you were
running your mouth on base and

2225
01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:03,720
they'd probably take care of you
if they had to, they they have

2226
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:07,280
the right to protect the
interests of national security.

2227
01:57:07,360 --> 01:57:09,160
And that's the way it is.
That's what we.

2228
01:57:09,160 --> 01:57:12,280
Had there was a statue, I forgot
what it was from the 1950s.

2229
01:57:12,280 --> 01:57:15,040
I think that the government
basically said they could just

2230
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:17,800
classify anything in the name of
national secure.

2231
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:20,360
They can privatize and classify
anything in the name of national

2232
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:22,800
security.
So you're working on something

2233
01:57:22,800 --> 01:57:24,240
fun.
Very cool, very nice.

2234
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:25,880
Get a visit next door.
Knock, knock.

2235
01:57:26,280 --> 01:57:28,480
Who is it?
Everything you've been working

2236
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:30,160
on, it's classified.
You can never talk about it

2237
01:57:30,160 --> 01:57:31,520
again.
Have a nice life.

2238
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:34,640
If you really want to work in
this area, we'll find you some

2239
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:38,520
work to do, but you need to sign
something because you're getting

2240
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:40,800
too close to some things we're
working on.

2241
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:43,120
Yeah, and it's.
Like, I mean, what else you

2242
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:45,840
going to do, man?
You're either top dog with the

2243
01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:49,440
good toys to protect our
interests and I think there's a

2244
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:52,320
lot of cool toys that we can
only imagine.

2245
01:57:52,320 --> 01:57:55,400
I know and you know what that's
and that's so your side and go

2246
01:57:55,480 --> 01:57:57,720
looping back full circle before
we call it a night.

2247
01:57:57,960 --> 01:58:02,360
You know is when this goes into
your sci-fi and your reality is

2248
01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:07,360
already so crazy and you know,
who knows what the heck is going

2249
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:11,200
on out there for real?
Well, but I'm I, I.

2250
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:14,920
You know, you know there's you.
Maintain hope.

2251
01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:18,520
Are you hopeful?
Well, I am, I mean, think, I

2252
01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:24,120
think we're probably in the, the
right country to be the last to

2253
01:58:24,120 --> 01:58:26,320
fall.
I'm hopeful that I'm hopeful

2254
01:58:26,320 --> 01:58:29,480
that we, we, we need our need
our advanced propulsion so we

2255
01:58:29,480 --> 01:58:32,320
can go to our own planet and do
our own thing.

2256
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:33,880
I think that would be really
good.

2257
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:38,280
I think people would be still
collaborating and trying to take

2258
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:41,520
resources from this planet
because it's so good.

2259
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:45,320
Yeah.
So I think we'd be dealing with

2260
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:49,560
with crazies even that just come
in or steal our water and to to

2261
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:51,760
take whatever.
Do you agree with that?

2262
01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:55,120
I'm saying if if you can get off
this planet and have some pretty

2263
01:58:55,120 --> 01:58:59,040
cool tech to do that, you've
probably got, we've got a now.

2264
01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:02,400
It wouldn't be 5 minutes before
we annexed other planets.

2265
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:04,880
It would take us.
It would take us.

2266
01:59:05,120 --> 01:59:07,880
It would take us through the
time that you could sign your

2267
01:59:07,880 --> 01:59:10,880
corporate.
You know that that that deal

2268
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:14,520
that guarantees your short
shareholders X amount of returns

2269
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:17,440
from owning planet XYZ, You
know?

2270
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:18,960
Yeah, and that's.
How long you take?

2271
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:22,280
You know, when you get Hoover on
your show, you need to ask him

2272
01:59:22,280 --> 01:59:25,200
about the nature of water and
life.

2273
01:59:25,280 --> 01:59:27,400
And he's founded everywhere.
Everywhere.

2274
01:59:27,400 --> 01:59:30,520
He studied the moon rocks and
and some Mars.

2275
01:59:30,520 --> 01:59:35,160
A lot of Mars pictures haven't
been any real good samples have

2276
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:38,000
come back.
But the point is he'll tell you

2277
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:41,800
a lot about how life could
sustain millions of years under

2278
01:59:41,800 --> 01:59:46,520
the water that never freezes the
deep water and why they're the

2279
01:59:46,520 --> 01:59:51,760
physics of that is such could be
something that it's crazy worms

2280
01:59:51,760 --> 01:59:56,320
that come alive from sunshine
and they they start, they start

2281
01:59:56,440 --> 02:00:00,760
basically sweating like thycol
on the glycol and it melts ice

2282
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:04,920
local and then that frees up
adjacent microbes and stuff for

2283
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,600
it to eat.
So these these worms are like a

2284
02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:09,720
piece of tubing and he was
showing these.

2285
02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:13,080
Absolutely.
Ice worms found deep in the

2286
02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:16,320
Arctic way under the ground.
They pull cores crazy.

2287
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:18,760
They come up and it's pretty
cool, man.

2288
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,800
But he's got all these.
He's got some great

2289
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:26,440
presentations he's done on so
far as life goes.

2290
02:00:26,440 --> 02:00:31,800
Yeah, You know, I am I think I
think the dam is about to break

2291
02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:36,440
in a lot of areas and we are at
a critical mass for technology

2292
02:00:36,560 --> 02:00:40,320
where it's going to be too easy
for people to easily do

2293
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:43,200
destructive things.
And I think something's got

2294
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:45,960
somebody's going to hit the
brakes and, you know, shy of

2295
02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:50,280
destroying, you know, regions
completely, we've got to have

2296
02:00:50,280 --> 02:00:53,400
some policies and some I mean,
I'm not saying, you know, that

2297
02:00:53,400 --> 02:00:56,720
the the United Nations kind of
got out of hand.

2298
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,880
And you can you can see now that
the agenda agendas were not the

2299
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:04,760
people's agendas.
They were some utopian for a

2300
02:01:04,760 --> 02:01:08,040
small group of people that what
they thought who the ones that

2301
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:10,200
are going to be here for the
long term here who are the

2302
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:13,000
takers?
So you know that I mean it was

2303
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:15,800
going that way.
So there needs to be it seems

2304
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:19,400
like a United Nations to control
weapons and all that, but they

2305
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:25,080
need to be a very open Komona
existence transparency.

2306
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:26,600
I'm going to leave it at that on
that.

2307
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:32,720
But, but man, I am, I think
we're, I really believe that.

2308
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:37,560
I believe that This is why they
use the term demonic sometime.

2309
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:41,400
I think the dark forces of where
information is coming from, the

2310
02:01:41,400 --> 02:01:44,120
taxpayers are not going to be
happy with the answer Y'all.

2311
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:47,920
I don't like what they're doing.
They're not going to they're not

2312
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:52,080
going to be happy with with with
these methods to go and get

2313
02:01:52,080 --> 02:01:57,040
information and be in these dark
places and and and summon things

2314
02:01:57,240 --> 02:01:59,640
that we don't really understand
the the physics.

2315
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:03,400
We use the word quantum and
interconnected and it's all but

2316
02:02:03,400 --> 02:02:07,320
the fact is there's not a a
filed system just setting out in

2317
02:02:07,320 --> 02:02:10,920
space saying, well, if you go to
this vector, you'll get Tim

2318
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:13,200
Pickens and spaces for the last
100 years.

2319
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:16,600
I mean, are you wouldn't that's
why people say it's a big

2320
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:18,320
holograph.
It's a hologram.

2321
02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:22,280
You know, think about holograms
are if you see a picture, you

2322
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:25,800
can cut out a little quarter by
quarter inch of that picture and

2323
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:28,120
it got it has all the details of
the whole picture.

2324
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,240
Every, no matter how small, you
make that.

2325
02:02:30,240 --> 02:02:31,880
You know that, right?
You cut it.

2326
02:02:32,040 --> 02:02:34,240
You have all the details of the
whole hologram.

2327
02:02:34,760 --> 02:02:36,080
Yeah, I didn't know that.
Yes.

2328
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:39,320
Pretty much to a degree down to
the point where you have the

2329
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:44,200
pixels stop making the image
because it is photographic, some

2330
02:02:44,200 --> 02:02:47,600
of it's old photographic film.
But the point is, is people see

2331
02:02:47,600 --> 02:02:51,280
the the universe is this 3
dimensional hologram and it's

2332
02:02:51,280 --> 02:02:54,040
there's repetition of Everything
Everywhere, sort of.

2333
02:02:55,320 --> 02:02:59,040
Yeah, that's it's not the
looping universe.

2334
02:02:59,040 --> 02:03:02,040
I forgot what it's called.
I forgot what it's called, Yeah.

2335
02:03:02,200 --> 02:03:06,800
But I, I do believe that, you
know, we could have a long talk

2336
02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:10,720
about the, the origins of, of
some of the history of, of, of

2337
02:03:10,720 --> 02:03:15,280
the, of the gods and the
biblical writings before people

2338
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:17,800
existed.
There seemed to be this evil in

2339
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:22,000
the world, in some cases made by
creator who was omnipotent, knew

2340
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:25,000
everything.
But yet these, these, these,

2341
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:28,800
these creatures that wanted free
will or he wanted them that free

2342
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:30,640
will.
There was quite an experiment

2343
02:03:30,640 --> 02:03:33,800
that didn't work out, but it's
even mentioned in in our Old

2344
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:38,760
Testament and in some of the
writings and other religions.

2345
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:43,240
So question is where the battles
of the of the planets?

2346
02:03:43,400 --> 02:03:46,480
Was there some reality to that
when they were thrown out of

2347
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:48,360
paradise?
But if you're going to write a

2348
02:03:48,360 --> 02:03:52,160
book to the people of planet
Earth, why can we relate to

2349
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:56,040
creatures that darn even beings
they're, they're spiritual are

2350
02:03:56,360 --> 02:04:01,320
they are conscious and they're
not by people like us.

2351
02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:04,240
So the point is, why would you
share that story with us?

2352
02:04:04,760 --> 02:04:07,920
It's not as relevant as the
people story, let's say of the

2353
02:04:07,920 --> 02:04:11,600
New Testament or others.
All I'm saying is there's a lot

2354
02:04:11,600 --> 02:04:14,480
of weird stuff that that you
could get into here.

2355
02:04:14,480 --> 02:04:19,120
But I do believe our politicians
are worried to death that this

2356
02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:22,480
discussion about where some of
this tech come from, they really

2357
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:24,760
can't explain it.
Yeah, that's the topic.

2358
02:04:26,040 --> 02:04:27,200
Do you?
I do agree with that.

2359
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:30,520
It's all seems to be aligning
and they're like.

2360
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:33,240
There's not a good answer, but
you're not going to like it.

2361
02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:39,000
Yeah, we have to see what I to
see what I believe that comes

2362
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:40,760
out of any politicians mouth
these days.

2363
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:43,880
But you know, because even if
they come out and show me, you

2364
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:46,280
know what, I don't believe crap
anymore.

2365
02:04:46,280 --> 02:04:49,880
And and you know what?
They they they the blatant the

2366
02:04:49,880 --> 02:04:54,440
the degree of blatant lying is
so to such an extent that it

2367
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:58,440
almost would require the most
overwhelming evidence that like

2368
02:04:58,760 --> 02:05:03,240
it would need like like doing it
having a formal handshake and a

2369
02:05:03,240 --> 02:05:07,680
photo op with a with a the
interdimensional being for for

2370
02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:13,600
me to buy Tim Bertrand or.
Well, yeah, you're right, You're

2371
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:14,840
right.
I agree with you.

2372
02:05:14,840 --> 02:05:17,520
And by the way, I think we're
going to see some pictures and

2373
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:21,040
videos and I think people are
going to be able to explain them

2374
02:05:21,040 --> 02:05:23,120
in different ways.
Yeah, I know.

2375
02:05:23,120 --> 02:05:25,800
And you're not going to see,
you're not going to see a living

2376
02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:27,920
it's going to.
Be amazing and something's going

2377
02:05:27,920 --> 02:05:30,200
to be incredible.
I think it's going to be mind

2378
02:05:30,200 --> 02:05:33,480
boggling, but it's not going to
be any anything you can get your

2379
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:37,040
hands on.
And I think the grudges, you

2380
02:05:37,040 --> 02:05:39,520
know, that the people that think
about it, the

2381
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:42,240
counterintelligence people that
have come out as whistleblowers.

2382
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:44,880
Are any of those people in jail,
by the way?

2383
02:05:45,400 --> 02:05:48,880
Not to my knowledge.
And all wiki blowers go to jail,

2384
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:50,880
right?
Yeah, so they're out run their

2385
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:52,760
mouth.
And if they're really a threat,

2386
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:55,560
do you really believe they would
be allowed to do that?

2387
02:05:56,160 --> 02:05:58,560
Yeah.
The point is they're out there

2388
02:05:58,560 --> 02:06:02,360
counterintelligence and they're
out being fed some stuff and

2389
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:04,760
they think they've got a
platform in there.

2390
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:08,720
It's clear with, with with with
the one guy, Alonzo, it's clear

2391
02:06:08,720 --> 02:06:11,800
that as long as he talks about
aliens off the planet, he's in

2392
02:06:11,800 --> 02:06:13,920
good shape.
In other words, it's out there.

2393
02:06:14,200 --> 02:06:17,080
It's not us.
Yeah, that's that's his spice.

2394
02:06:17,200 --> 02:06:18,960
Have you noticed?
Yeah, I have.

2395
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:22,600
I've, I don't, I don't buy
anything he says either.

2396
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:25,760
Of course, I mean, again, grain
of salt because I'm sure there's

2397
02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:28,160
kernels of truth, but I don't
buy a lot of what he says.

2398
02:06:28,160 --> 02:06:31,200
I agree with you.
Tim, I'm sorry I have to cut

2399
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:33,440
this, but I, I like computers on
2%.

2400
02:06:33,800 --> 02:06:36,800
So I, I really appreciate your
time.

2401
02:06:36,800 --> 02:06:40,520
I love your idea about doing
live Q&A podcast another time.

2402
02:06:40,520 --> 02:06:41,800
I think that would be a ton of
fun.

2403
02:06:42,360 --> 02:06:45,200
We'll gather up a bunch of
questions and you know, let's

2404
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:47,920
see what we could do with this.
But I think that we could we

2405
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:49,680
could make something great.
And I would love to have another

2406
02:06:49,680 --> 02:06:53,400
conversation with you because
this is our second or third

2407
02:06:53,400 --> 02:06:55,920
multi hour conversation and I'm
really enjoying all of this.

2408
02:06:55,960 --> 02:06:58,160
Well, I'm sorry I'm so long
winded.

2409
02:06:58,320 --> 02:06:59,840
No, this is great.
I love this.

2410
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:03,160
This is the point of the podcast
and it's really been a ton of

2411
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:04,800
fun.
So I thank you so much for your

2412
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,240
time and thank you for all this.
Awesome.

2413
02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:09,120
Some information and it's so
much fun.

2414
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:10,720
We covered so much ground, so
yeah.

2415
02:07:10,720 --> 02:07:13,240
And by.
The way when you come back, I'll

2416
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:17,480
give you a tour of the labs and
all of my crazy stuff.

2417
02:07:17,480 --> 02:07:20,720
Jet packs, rocket bikes, it's
all here man.

2418
02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:23,880
I'm going to come, I'm going to.
I'll make a trip, I'll make a

2419
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:25,520
trip.
My wife and I are looking for a

2420
02:07:25,520 --> 02:07:28,360
place to go.
OK, Tim, thank you so much to be

2421
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:29,920
on your show and thank you
again.

2422
02:07:30,160 --> 02:07:31,840
Of course, have a great night.
All the best.

2423
02:07:31,840 --> 02:07:33,560
Take care man, Take care.
Man, we'll see you.